Pat Robertson: Liberals ‘Are a Culture of Death’ – Cites Assisted-Suicide Case

[Pernicious]

http://www.cnsnews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/medium/images/marynard16n-6-web.jpg
Pat Robertson commented, “It’s amazing that the so-called liberals are a culture of death. They want to kill babies. They want to kill the terminally ill. They don’t seem to honor life, and what we should do is honor life and not hasten death.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/pat-robertson-liberals-are-culture-death-cites-assisted-suicide-case

[revelarts]

Pat Robertson commented, “It’s amazing that the so-called liberals are a culture of death. They want to kill babies. They want to kill the terminally ill. They don’t seem to honor life, and what we should do is honor life and not hasten death.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/pat-robertson-liberals-are-culture-death-cites-assisted-suicide-case

It's true.

[stevecanuck]

I occasionally disagree with my fellow conservatives, and this would be one of those times. This woman was going to die of a disease that wouldn't even exist if your god didn't want it to, and she has decided to do an end run around the sadistic son of a bitch. Good for her. I hope she straight-arms him and breaks his nose in the process.

[revelarts]

I occasionally disagree with my fellow conservatives, and this would be one of those times. This woman was going to die of a disease that wouldn't even exist if your god didn't want it to, and she has decided to do an end run around the sadistic son of a bitch. Good for her. I hope she straight-arms him and breaks his nose in the process.



sorry you feel like that.
But it start this way and it won't end this way.

and the fact that you even care either way shows that good came from somewhere, if not from God then where?

[Pernicious]

Life is a gift and it certainly is not for sissies. God never puts more on our plate than we can handle. We just don't know it.

[jimnyc]

Life is a gift and it certainly is not for sissies. God never puts more on our plate than we can handle. We just don't know it.

Through some of the tougher times of my life I was told that same thing, that God would never give me more than I could handle. I believed it then and I still believe that. But I think cases like this are different. I don't think God put cancer on this girls plate, and I doubt he would have wanted her to handle it, as there was nothing to handle other than suffering. I agree wholeheartedly that life is a gift, so I hope I don't come off as belittling that. But I'm betting this girl still saw life as a gift. She probably enjoyed every last moment as if it were the best gift in the world. I think she more than some probably understands what a gift life is, and how it can be taken away by a horrible disease. She was still taken away from this world by a horrible disease, only she made it kill her quicker, and she made the disease less painful. I truly believe in my heart that God won't bring harm to someone who avoided pain, when their death was guaranteed anyway.

[Pernicious]

Why euthanasia is wrong
Euthanasia and assisted suicide are wrong in principle and dangerous in practice. Euthanasia is morally wrong because it is the intentional killing of an innocent human being. The norm against killing is grounded in the inherent dignity and right to life of the human person, regardless of age, ability (or disability), health and condition of dependency. Euthanasia, the Hippocratic Oath teaches, is contrary to the very nature and purpose of the medical profession.
This does not mean that a patient's life must be sustained by all means in all circumstances. Allowing a natural death is not the same as intentional killing. Nor is it necessarily wrong to hasten the end of life through treatment aimed at controlling symptoms—because the intent is to comfort the patient, not to kill. In either case it is the underlying disease or injury that causes death, not the actions of the doctor or patient.
http://www.mccl.org/euthanasia-and-assisted-suicide.html

[jimnyc]

Why In either case it is the underlying disease or injury that causes death, not the actions of the doctor or patient.

I would say that this disease did in fact kill her, as without the disease in her life, she would be alive today. Her life was already taken from her, she just changed the date of death on the certificate is all.

[KarlMarx]

The right to die seems a grand thing to some.... Until that is it suddenly is applied to them

Wonder how long it will be till mandatory euthanasia becomes the law of the land... I suspect those right to death types will be singing a different tune

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[gabosaurus]

I would say that this disease did in fact kill her, as without the disease in her life, she would be alive today. Her life was already taken from her, she just changed the date of death on the certificate is all.

I totally agree with this. Anyone who has watched someone endure a slow and painful death knows how painful it is for everyone.
This is not someone who decided to end their life for selfish reasons. It is a woman who wanted to end her life on her own terms. Not to mention the incredible medical bills this would incur.
There is a time to live and a time to die. All people should be allowed to do both on their own terms.

[stevecanuck]

The right to die seems a grand thing to some.... Until that is it suddenly is applied to them

Wonder how long it will be till mandatory euthanasia becomes the law of the land... I suspect those right to death types will be singing a different tune

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

It would be hard to imagine a more ridiculous response.

[red state]

Pat Robertson commented, “It’s amazing that the so-called liberals are a culture of death. They want to kill babies. They want to kill the terminally ill. They don’t seem to honor life, and what we should do is honor life and not hasten death.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/pat-robertson-liberals-are-culture-death-cites-assisted-suicide-case


Talking about the LEFT in general........THEY are not only a culture of death but a CULT of death which is another thing they share with iSLUM. A cult of TOTAL control, my way or the highway.....or die.

Now, as for end of life scenarios. I've seen the horror of "waiting" to die when you KNOW you are going to die. My mom passed away in 2012 to cancer and my wife buried her sister this past May (who also died of cancer). It is truly a terrible way to go and if I'm as brave as my great uncle (who also had cancer) I hope to go out as he did........BEFORE it gets to the point of no return OR decision to do anything about it. As a survivor, I doubt I will be able to pull that trigger or kick that chair but it would be MUCH better than to have your family wait on you and helplessly watch you die in agony.

[red state]

This may be some of my old liberal ways coming back on me but I fancy the thought of doing what a few Native American tribes practiced when the old (who were a burden and who were on the verge of becoming that helpless, pain filled soul from disease or hunger) would venture off on THE WALK. This was usually done in the winter and the trip was always "one way". Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY much against abortion or taking the easy way out due to depression or other stuff that will pass BUT in times of extreme situation (such as cancer) I don't see one thing wrong with going out with dignity......and the last stages of cancer and other illnesses, such as Alzheimers, is anything BUT dignified.

[KarlMarx]

It would be hard to imagine a more ridiculous response.

I wonder... if the State decides that, for the common good of course, that you are a burden and should be done away with would you go willingly? Be careful of what you wish for.... you just might get it

[Perianne]

I occasionally disagree with my fellow conservatives, and this would be one of those times. This woman was going to die of a disease that wouldn't even exist if your god didn't want it to, and she has decided to do an end run around the sadistic son of a bitch. Good for her. I hope she straight-arms him and breaks his nose in the process.



Terrible. Just terrible to speak of The Almighty that way.

[Jeff]

I would say that this disease did in fact kill her, as without the disease in her life, she would be alive today. Her life was already taken from her, she just changed the date of death on the certificate is all.


I totally agree with this. Anyone who has watched someone endure a slow and painful death knows how painful it is for everyone.
This is not someone who decided to end their life for selfish reasons. It is a woman who wanted to end her life on her own terms. Not to mention the incredible medical bills this would incur.
There is a time to live and a time to die. All people should be allowed to do both on their own terms.

I agree with both of ya, but in the same token I am unsure of the stance I take here, a friend of mine was told he had stage four Liver cancer and there was no stage 5, the Doc started to tell him how long and he told the Doc to save it being as he didn't have a expiration date on his foot, well that was a Wednesday and that night at church folks prayed over him as they did every time the doors where open until his next appointment and when the Doc walked in after the test where done he said " there is no medical reason for it but the cancer was in complete remission, that was 3 years ago and my buddy is still walking and talking, sometimes a death sentence somehow turns itself around. This man was told there was no hope but yet rides his Biker everyday of the week, now on there other hand those stories are few and far between, and Cancer is a terrible disease, yes the bible says if you take your own life that is a biggie and will wind you up in hell but a church I was going to pieced together a bunch of scripture and that showed if you are truly dying or truly out of your mind God forgives and you will enter the pearly gates. This is a real tough call, having watched a few suffer with cancer I truly feel for this woman, she didn't do this for anything other than logical reasoning, I pray she is sitting alongside our God right now looking down trying to help those of us that need the help !

[red state]

I agree with both of ya, but in the same token I am unsure of the stance I take here, a friend of mine was told he had stage four Liver cancer and there was no stage 5, the Doc started to tell him how long and he told the Doc to save it being as he didn't have a expiration date on his foot, well that was a Wednesday and that night at church folks prayed over him as they did every time the doors where open until his next appointment and when the Doc walked in after the test where done he said " there is no medical reason for it but the cancer was in complete remission, that was 3 years ago and my buddy is still walking and talking, sometimes a death sentence somehow turns itself around. This man was told there was no hope but yet rides his Biker everyday of the week, now on there other hand those stories are few and far between, and Cancer is a terrible disease, yes the bible says if you take your own life that is a biggie and will wind you up in hell but a church I was going to pieced together a bunch of scripture and that showed if you are truly dying or truly out of your mind God forgives and you will enter the pearly gates. This is a real tough call, having watched a few suffer with cancer I truly feel for this woman, she didn't do this for anything other than logical reasoning, I pray she is sitting alongside our God right now looking down trying to help those of us that need the help !

___________________________________________

Jeff, first of all, I want to say that I am so thankful that your friend has been blessed so wonderfully and I have also seen such miracles within my church family but it is a rare thing. Still, your comment is apples to oranges if your friend is like the ones I've known who were also so wonderfully blessed. I'll tell you why......it is night and day because they were never down and trodden as my mom, two aunts and sister-n-law & grandfathers, grandmothers (all dying a terrible death). The Blessed ones were still unnoticeable "sick" and later the illness simply vanished after other series of tests made for a bad outlook (EVENTUALLY).

I've also known of women who were told by their doctor that both she and her "embryo" were in danger if she went through with the pregnancy...............both are now healthy and happy! BUT, I was talking of end of life scenarios when the disease has taken its course without any intervention. There is a HUGE difference and (IF) I were to be blessed (as your friend was/is) so be it BUT if I were to be like so many of my family and church family who went through it all only to get to the point that one can do nothing but waste away, I hope I am brave enough to take the measures that would save my family, friends and ME the torture and loss of dignity that ALWAYS comes with such terrible diseases. The bad thing is WHEN to take such actions while one can still operate fairly normally. That is a question to be determined by the amount of pain one is in and if all of life's business has been set in order. I would hate to leave my family with unfinished business or a friend/family member thinking we parted ways without forgiveness or amends. I had an extremely painful disease that kills but I pulled through. It was rare and was a number of years ago and left me FULLY capable of working a trigger but I was determined and felt that my odds were good enough to carry on BUT there were times that I seriously considered it. I'm a tough of boy but that was one of the most painful times I can recall and I hope to never contract that disease again. Still, the difference there was that I was fully capable of working a trigger.................not so with my loved ones who toughed it out to the end with no ability to do anything but tough it out (while experiencing the loss of dignity and placing their family/friends in some of the WORSE spots imaginable). I hope I will not do that to my loved ones or me. Some of those memories of caring for my mom are bad ones and will never leave my mind and if any of you have cared for your loved ones, you know what I mean.

Jeff, as for your comment about going to hell for taking such measures........................DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOR ONE MIN (NO, SECOND). The ONLY sin that condemns us to Hell is that of rejection (not murder, adultery or theft) but the rejection of a Gift that Christ has given freely if only we ACCEPT. And the only thing that will condemn a man with no chance of being led by God to repent is if that man blasphemes (not God the Father or the SON) but the Comforter who leads men to Christ. If you do not head His voice after time and time again, He will simply leave you alone but you can also send Him away through mockery or hate or blaspheming Him and His work. We know Him as the Holy Spirit (Christ's spirit....I think) but this Spirit, like Christ, has always been. All three have always been and all three are ONE with a love for man in different personalities. The Holy Spirit is a gift and a comfort in bad times and what insult can be greater than to push away a gift?! Bottom line: there IS a line to cross and (if) you cross it.....sorry Charlie.

Someone (Steve) I believe, questioned God because of the bad in the world so I'd like to address that. It is true that God will 'allow' things in our lives (good and not so good in our eyes) BUT we need not forget that it was WE who brought sin, sickness and DEATH into this world (Not HIM). I know this simple doctrine is difficult for a none-believer but for those who have actually met God, we know this to be true and even JUST. What if ALL turned to God? Would there be less sickness, death or EVIL (as we see in our lives or the muSLUM cesspools all over the world)? Probably.....but there'd also be so much more GOOD for the world to see and compare how evil cults are when the REAL thing is full of so much love and that would just about have to make this world a better place (till HE takes over in Jerusalem). Just look at how the world could EASILY see a difference in AMERICA as compared to ANY other nation. Same applies, yet WE have brought more of the world and LESS of America into the USA with an expectation that we'd get better. Some change is not a good change and if we want REAL change, we're going to have to get rid of the current change. Sorry, just had to get out of the dark topic of death somehow and introduce politics (but now without a similarity in subject matter to compare the EVILS of this world and why evil prevails). It is WE who brought in a bad thing that messed up a PERFECT thing so it is not right to blame God. Blame Satan, Adam and OURSELVES.

God bless you all on this beautiful morning.....

[Pernicious]

___________________________________________

Jeff, first of all, I want to say that I am so thankful that your friend has been blessed so wonderfully and I have also seen such miracles within my church family but it is a rare thing. Still, your comment is apples to oranges if your friend is like the ones I've known who were also so wonderfully blessed. I'll tell you why......it is night and day because they were never down and trodden as my mom, two aunts and sister-n-law & grandfathers, grandmothers (all dying a terrible death). The Blessed ones were still unnoticeable "sick" and later the illness simply vanished after other series of tests made for a bad outlook (EVENTUALLY).

I've also known of women who were told by their doctor that both she and her "embryo" were in danger if she went through with the pregnancy...............both are now healthy and happy! BUT, I was talking of end of life scenarios when the disease has taken its course without any intervention. There is a HUGE difference and (IF) I were to be blessed (as your friend was/is) so be it BUT if I were to be like so many of my family and church family who went through it all only to get to the point that one can do nothing but waste away, I hope I am brave enough to take the measures that would save my family, friends and ME the torture and loss of dignity that ALWAYS comes with such terrible diseases. The bad thing is WHEN to take such actions while one can still operate fairly normally. That is a question to be determined by the amount of pain one is in and if all of life's business has been set in order. I would hate to leave my family with unfinished business or a friend/family member thinking we parted ways without forgiveness or amends. I had an extremely painful disease that kills but I pulled through. It was rare and was a number of years ago and left me FULLY capable of working a trigger but I was determined and felt that my odds were good enough to carry on BUT there were times that I seriously considered it. I'm a tough of boy but that was one of the most painful times I can recall and I hope to never contract that disease again. Still, the difference there was that I was fully capable of working a trigger.................not so with my loved ones who toughed it out to the end with no ability to do anything but tough it out (while experiencing the loss of dignity and placing their family/friends in some of the WORSE spots imaginable). I hope I will not do that to my loved ones or me. Some of those memories of caring for my mom are bad ones and will never leave my mind and if any of you have cared for your loved ones, you know what I mean.

Jeff, as for your comment about going to hell for taking such measures........................DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOR ONE MIN (NO, SECOND). The ONLY sin that condemns us to Hell is that of rejection (not murder, adultery or theft) but the rejection of a Gift that Christ has given freely if only we ACCEPT. And the only thing that will condemn a man with no chance of being led by God to repent is if that man blasphemes (not God the Father or the SON) but the Comforter who leads men to Christ. If you do not head His voice after time and time again, He will simply leave you alone but you can also send Him away through mockery or hate or blaspheming Him and His work. We know Him as the Holy Spirit (Christ's spirit....I think) but this Spirit, like Christ, has always been. All three have always been and all three are ONE with a love for man in different personalities. The Holy Spirit is a gift and a comfort in bad times and what insult can be greater than to push away a gift?! Bottom line: there IS a line to cross and (if) you cross it.....sorry Charlie.

Someone (Steve) I believe, questioned God because of the bad in the world so I'd like to address that. It is true that God will 'allow' things in our lives (good and not so good in our eyes) BUT we need not forget that it was WE who brought sin, sickness and DEATH into this world (Not HIM). I know this simple doctrine is difficult for a none-believer but for those who have actually met God, we know this to be true and even JUST. What if ALL turned to God? Would there be less sickness, death or EVIL (as we see in our lives or the muSLUM cesspools all over the world)? Probably.....but there'd also be so much more GOOD for the world to see and compare how evil cults are when the REAL thing is full of so much love and that would just about have to make this world a better place (till HE takes over in Jerusalem). Just look at how the world could EASILY see a difference in AMERICA as compared to ANY other nation. Same applies, yet WE have brought more of the world and LESS of America into the USA with an expectation that we'd get better. Some change is not a good change and if we want REAL change, we're going to have to get rid of the current change. Sorry, just had to get out of the dark topic of death somehow and introduce politics (but now without a similarity in subject matter to compare the EVILS of this world and why evil prevails). It is WE who brought in a bad thing that messed up a PERFECT thing so it is not right to blame God. Blame Satan, Adam and OURSELVES.

God bless you all on this beautiful morning.....http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6784&stc=1