"Calibration Issue" Found in Voting Machines in 3 Maryland Counties

[Stiletto]

Unlike in Illinois, where only one machine in one county was found to be switching votes for candidates, this time these "glitches" were found to be taking place in three counties - Frederick County, Queen Anne County, and Anne Arundel County.

Once again, a "calibration issue" is the excuse offered up to explain why this is occurring - this time in Maryland.

Once again, votes for GOP candidates are being changed over to ones for Democrats (as opposed to the other way around).

Once again, after numerous attempts to cast votes for the correct candidates (all Republicans) failed, it required alert and vigilant Republican voters (rather than someone working at the polling precinct) to make officials aware of the problem.

Once again, there's no telling how many "calibration issues" affecting machines across the country are out there but haven't been uncovered.

Anyone who doesn't realize this is deliberate is a fucking fool.

******

"Calibration Issue" Pops Up On Maryland Voting Machines (http://watchdog.org/179372/calibration-issues-maryland/)

Voting machines that switch Republican votes to Democrats are being reported in Maryland.

“When I first selected my candidate on the electronic machine, it would not put the ‘x’ on the candidate I chose — a Republican — but it would put the ‘x’ on the Democrat candidate above it,” Donna Hamilton said.

“This happened multiple times with multiple selections. Every time my choice flipped from Republican to Democrat.
Sometimes it required four or five tries to get the ‘x’ to stay on my real selection,” the Frederick, Md., resident said last week.

Queen Anne County Sheriff Gary Hofmann said he encountered the problem, too, personally.

“This is happening here as well. It occurred on two candidates on my machine. I am glad I checked. Many voters have reported this here as well,” Hofmann, a Republican, wrote in an email Sunday evening.

Two other Maryland voters reported the same in Anne Arundel County on Friday.

A similar vote switch turned up in Chicago earlier (http://watchdog.org/178432/cook-county-ballot-box-tries-cast-gop-votes-democrats/)last week.

Illinois Republican state representative candidate Jim Moynihan went to the Schaumburg Public Library last Monday to vote for himself. “Instead, it cast the vote for my opponent,” Moynihan told Watchdog.org (http://watchdog.org/178432/cook-county-ballot-box-tries-cast-gop-votes-democrats/).

“You could imagine my surprise as the same thing happened with a number of races when I tried to vote for a Republican and the machine registered a vote for a Democrat,” Moynihan said.

He notified the election judge at his polling place and demonstrated that it continued to cast a vote for the opposing candidate’s party. Moynihan was eventually allowed to vote for Republican candidates, including his own race.

Back in Maryland, two voters in Anne Arundel County experienced the same problem: A Diebold touchscreen voting machine switched their Republican votes to Democrats. The voters had to cancel their votes and start over.

Joe Torre, election director in Anne Arundel, called it a “calibration issue” involving a single machine.

Hamilton said she notified officials of the problem she encountered at the Frederick County Center, where she voted. “I’m not sure what was done about it. If someone is not paying close attention, they could end up voting for the wrong candidate,” she said.

******

There's no telling how many machines with "calibration issues" are out there but either 1) haven't been caught or, more frighteningly, 2) have had nothing done about it after being brought to the attention of TPTB at polling precincts.

How many times does this have to happen before the voters and (especially) the GOP raise Holy Fucking Hell about it?

We cannot count on the LameStream Media to help make this issue known. Its members have no concept of the terms 'ethics' or 'scruples,' nor do they feel any journalistic responsibility or obligation to inform the public about votes being cast for the incorrect candidate. Matter of fact, the LSM will most likely do everything in their power to tamp down and/or discredit any and all reports of machine changing votes

Seeing as how the LSM is, at best, unreliable and, at worst, refuses to do their job when it comes to this issue, it is up to those of us whose votes are at risk of being fucked with. The GOP needs to have every candidate, every local organization, and every volunteer bring this up whenever possible between now and Election Day. In addition, every Republican/Conservative/Independent/Libertarian website, blog, and news organization screaming about this from the rafters.

It would be no surprise to find that the DNC and/or any of their operatives were fully aware of, if not active participants in this form of voter fraud. They understand all too well that We The People have *had* *it* with this Administration, with the Regressive Corrupticrat Party, and with their Socialist/Communist Agenda they're hell-bent on ramming down our throats, and they will stop at NOTHING to remain in power. In their eyes, the end justifies the means, even if it means resorting to criminal activity, voter fraud, voter intimidation, and outright, bald-faced lying to achieve their goals.

To remain silent, or take no action to prevent this from continuing is to be complicit in helping the Democrats steal this election. It makes physically ill to the point of vomiting to realize that this likely occurred in the 2012 Presidential Election and had we been more vigilant, we could have been spared another four years of the Nobama Nightmare and Chicago-Style Thug Politics

[NightTrain]

Odd that the "errors" always favor democrats.

Including dead people and pets.

[jimnyc]

Odd that the "errors" always favor democrats.

Including dead people and pets.

My neighbors here in NY are Democrats, as are their 14 kids. 7 goldfish, 3 ferrets, 2 bearded dragons & dog and a cat. They all get free Obamacare and all vote Democrat. :)

[LongTermGuy]

Odd that the "errors" always favor democrats.

Including dead people and pets.

`This ^^^

[revelarts]

When a 1st came on this board i pointed to same types of computer issues in favor or "Rs in Florida and Maryland and Ohio and a few precincts in the south west. Diebold machines.
the R's here told me it never happened. the newspapers, TV news all left wing lies, the computer documentation wasn't good enough, the computer experts where wrong plus it was all just sour grapes.

today I'm sure no one would ever hack computers, Rs are just paranoid here, it's all just an honest mistake folks.

a few lines i remember well
"just because voting machines can be hacked it doesn't mean they were."
And "you can't prove it was on purpose." also "you think it's some kind of conspiracy, Ridiculous!"

But now well the demon-crats are ebel ebel ebel we KNOW they cheat at the polls, the Right NEVER does, never has and never will amen and AMEN!! :salute:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[NightTrain]

When a 1st came on this board i pointed to same types of computer issues in favor or "Rs in Florida and Maryland and Ohio and a few precincts in the south west. Diebold machines.
the R's here told me it never happened. the newspapers, TV news all left wing lies, the computer documentation wasn't good enough, the computer experts where wrong plus it was all just sour grapes.

today I'm sure no one would ever hack computers, Rs are just paranoid here, it's all just an honest mistake folks.

a few lines i remember well
"just because voting machines can be hacked it doesn't mean they were."
And "you can't prove it was on purpose." also "you think it's some kind of conspiracy, Ridiculous!"

But now well the demon-crats are ebel ebel ebel we KNOW they cheat at the polls, the Right NEVER does, never has and never will amen and AMEN!! :salute:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

BS.

Let's see the quotes.

[red state]

This is a NON-story cuz it is all just an innocent 'coincidence' of things that Just Happened......kinda like the long list of things that "just happened" to be before B.O.'s run for president during 2007/8. So many lies.......still, so MANY LIES!!! But hey; it is all just coincidnetal.......RIGHT?

Any one of these 'coincidences' when taken singularly may not appear to mean much, but when taken as a whole, a computer would blow a circuit if it had to calculate the odds that these so-called coincidences occurred by chance alone. Sit back, get a favorite beverage, then read and ponder the Obama-related 'coincidences', then superimpose the bigger picture of most recent events i.e., Fast and furious, Benghazi, The trading of our Navy S.E.A.L.S, the IRS scandal, the NSA revelations, favoring a nuclear Iran over our allies like Israel, ignoring Ebola and other such diseases that B.O. allowed and encouraged, The support we've given and the soft hand we've taken against Hamas and ISIS with many radical muSLUMS appointed within the ranks of D.C.……then pray for our country.

Obama
just happened to know 60s far-left radical revolutionary William Ayers, whose father
just happened to be Thomas Ayers, who
just happened to be a close friend of Obamas communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis, who
just happened to work at the communist-sympathizing Chicago Defender with Vernon Jarrett, who
just happened to later become the father-in-law of Iranian-born leftist Valerie Jarrett, who Obama
just happened to choose as his closest White House adviser, and who
just happened to have been CEO of Habitat Company, which
just happened to manage public housing in Chicago, which
just happened to get millions of dollars from the Illinois state legislature, and which
just happened not to properly maintain the housing which eventually
just happened to require demolition. *** Not to mention that this is the property that would have been the grounds that hosted the Olympics, had Obama's efforts been successful****
Valerie Jarrett also
just happened to work for the city of Chicago, and
just happened to hire Michelle LaVaughan Robinson (later Mrs. Obama), who
just happened to have worked at the Sidney Austin law firm, where former fugitive from the FBI Bernardine Dohrn also just happened to work, and where Barack Obama
just happened to get a summer job.

Bernardine Dohrn
just happened to be married to William Ayers, with whom she
just happened to have hidden from the FBI at a San Francisco marina, along with Donald Warden, who
just happened to change his name to Khalid al-Mansour, and Warden/al-Mansour who
just happened to be a mentor of Black Panther Party founders Huey Newton and Bobby Seale and a close associate of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, and al-Mansour
just happened to be financial adviser to a Saudi Prince, who
just happened to donate cash to Harvard, for which Obama
just happened to get a critical letter of recommendation from Percy Sutton, who just happened to have been the attorney for Malcolm X, who
just happened to know Kenyan politician Tom Mboya, who
just happened to be a close friend of Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., who
just happened to meet Malcolm X when he traveled to Kenya .


Obama, Sr. (whom I happen to believe is NOT B.O.'s father).
just happened to have his education at the University of Hawaii paid for by the Laubach Literacy Institute, which
just happened to have been supported by Elizabeth Mooney Kirk, who
just happened to be a friend of Malcolm X, who
just happened to have been associated with the Nation of Islam, which was later headed by Louis Farrakhan, who
just happens to live very close to Obamas Chicago mansion, which also
just happens to be located very close to the residence of William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who
just happens to have been occasional baby-sitters for Malia and Natasha Obama, whose parents
just happened to have no concern exposing their daughters to bomb-making communists.


After attending Occidental College and Columbia University, where he
just happened to have foreign Muslim roommates, Obama moved to Chicago to work for the Industrial Areas Foundation, an organization that
just happened to have been founded by Marxist and radical agitator Saul the Red Alinsky, author of Rules for Radicals, who
just happened to be the topic of Hillary Rodham Clintons thesis at Wellesley College, and Obamas $25,000 salary at IAF
just happened to be funded by a grant from the Woods Fund, which was founded by the Woods family, whose Sahara Coal company
just happened to provide coal to Commonwealth Edison, whose CEO just happened to be Thomas Ayers, whose son William Ayers
just happened to serve on the board of the Woods Fund, along with Obama.


Obama also worked on voter registration drives in Chicago in the 1980s and
just happened to work with leftist political groups like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and Socialist International (SI), through which Obama met Carl Davidson, who
just happened to travel to Cuba during the Vietnam War to sabotage the U.S. war effort, and who
just happened to be a former member of the SDS and a member of the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, which
just happened to sponsor a 2002 anti-war rally at which Obama spoke, and which
just happened to have been organized by Marilyn Katz, a former SDS activist and later public relations consultant who
just happened to be a long-time friend of Obamas political hatchet man, David Axelrod.


Obama joined Trinity United Church of Christ (TUCC), whose pastor was Reverend Jeremiah Wright, a fiery orator who
just happened to preach Marxism and Black Liberation Theology and who delivered anti-white, anti-Jew, and anti-American sermons, which Obama
just happened never to hear because he
just happened to miss church only on the days when Wright was at his most enthusiastic, and Obama
just happened never to notice that Oprah Winfrey left the church because it was too radical, and
just happened never to notice that the church gave the vile anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award.


Although no one had ever heard of him at the time, Obama
just happened to receive an impossible-to-believe $125,000 advance to write a book about race relations, which he
just happened to fail to write while using the cash to vacation in Bali with his wife Michelle, and despite his record of non-writing he just happened to receive a second advance, for $40,000, from another publisher, and he eventually completed a manuscript called Dreams From My Father, which
just happened to strongly reflect the writing style of William Ayers, who
just happened to trample on an American flag for the cover photograph of the popular Chicago magazine, which Obama
just happened never to see even though it appeared on newsstands throughout the city.


Obama was hired by the law firm Miner, Banhill and Galland, which
just happened to specialize in negotiating state government contracts to develop low-income housing, and which
just happened to deal with now-imprisoned Tony Rezko and his firm Rezar, and with slumlord Valerie Jarrett, and the law firms Judson Miner
just happened to have been a classmate of Bernardine Dohrn, wife of William Ayers.

In 1994 Obama represented ACORN and another plaintiff in a lawsuit against Citibank for denying mortgages to blacks (Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Federal Savings Bank), and the lawsuit
just happened to result in banks being blackmailed into approving sub-prime loans for poor credit risks, a trend which
just happened to spread nationwide, and which
just happened to lead to the collapse of the housing bubble, which
just happened to help Obama defeat John McCain in the 2008 presidential election.


In 1996 Obama ran for the Illinois State Senate and joined the New Party, which
just happened to promote Marxism, and Obama was supported by Dr. Quentin Yong, a socialist who
just happened to support a government takeover of the health care system.


In late 1999, Obama purportedly engaged in homosexual activities and cocaine-snorting in the back of a limousine with a man named Larry Sinclair, who claims he was contacted in late 2007 by Donald Young, who
just happened to be the gay choir director of Obamas Chicago church and who shared information with Sinclair about Obama, and Young
just happened to be murdered on December 23, 2007, just weeks after Larry Bland, another gay member of the church
just happened to be murdered, and both murders
just happened to have never been solved. In 2008 Sinclair held a press conference to discuss his claims, and
just happened to be arrested immediately after the event, based on a warrant issued by Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden, who
just happens to be the son of Joe Biden.


In 2003 Obama and his wife attended a dinner in honor of Rashid Khalidi, who
just happened to be a former PLO operative, harsh critic of Israel , and advocate of Palestinian rights, and who Obama claims he does not know, even though the Obamas
just happened to have dined more than once at the home of Khalidi and his wife, Mona, and
just happened to have used them as occasional baby-sitters. Obama reportedly praised Khalidi at the decidedly anti-Semitic event, which William Ayers
just happened to also attend, and the event Obama pretends he never attended was sponsored by the Arab American Action Network, to which Obama
just happened to have funneled cash while serving on the board of the Woods Fund with William Ayers, and one speaker at the dinner remarked that if Palestinians cannot secure a return of their land, Israel will never see a day of peace, and entertainment at the dinner included a Muslim childrens dance whose performances
just happened to include simulated be-headings with fake swords, and stomping on American, Israeli, and British flags, and Obama allegedly told the audience that Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine and there has been genocide against the Palestinian people by (the) Israelis, and the Los Angeles Times has a videotape of the event but
just happens to refuse to make it public.


In the 2004 Illinois Democrat primary race for the U.S. Senate, front-runner Blair Hull
just happened to be forced out of the race after David Axelrod just happened to manage to get Hulls sealed divorce records unsealed, which
just happened to enable Obama to win the primary, so he could face popular Republican Jack Ryan, whose sealed child custody records from his divorce
just happened to become unsealed, forcing Ryan to withdraw from the race, which
just happened to enable the unqualified Obama to waltz into the U.S. Senate, where, after a mere 143 days of work, he
just happened to decide he was qualified to run for President of the United States.

and now you know the rest of the story.....

Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society: Aristotle

[revelarts]

BS.

Let's see the quotes.
I can't find the oldest longest back and forth but here's one threads
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?28544-Felons-Voting-Illegally-May-Have-Put-Franken-Over-the-Top-in-MN&highlight=ohio

red states rule (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?60-red-states-rule) ="2000 was settled when the liberal media did their own recount "
PMP = "its fairly obvious we should call your complaints bullshit....."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7tjnuG-l6g



Felon purge sacrificed innocent voters
Election 2000: Fla. Vote
May 27, 2001
By Scott Hiaasen, Gary Kane and Elliot Jaspin
Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

While millions of Floridians spent Nov. 7 casting their votes for president, Clarence Mayville was fighting, and failing, to clear his name.

Mayville went to his precinct in Polk County's Auburndale that Tuesday morning to cast his vote for George W. Bush. Poll workers told him he was on a state list of suspected felons, making him ineligible to vote.

Mayville, 50, a diesel mechanic and Army veteran, said it was a mistake. But a day of haggling with election workers failed to clear up the mess.

"I'm madder than hell," Mayville said. "I called them over there (at the elections office) and I raised hell. ... You can't get an answer from them."

Finally Mayville tore up his voter registration card and stomped out without voting. It wasn't until March that he received a letter from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement telling him what he already knew: He had no criminal record. By then, the damage was done.

In the months since the election, no one has been able to say with any certainty just how many legitimate Florida voters like Mayville were turned away from the polls.

But a Palm Beach Post computer analysis has found at least 1,100 eligible voters wrongly purged from the rolls before last year's election - the collateral damage from an aggressive and ill-conceived state plan to prevent felons from voting.

With Bush winning Florida and the presidency by a scant 537 votes over Democrat Al Gore, these voters - some wrongly identified as felons, and many more wrongly turned away based on felony convictions in other states - could have swayed the election had they been allowed to vote.
And while the state's attempt to police the voter rolls victimized scores of legitimate voters, it still failed to prevent thousands of felons from casting their ballots. In Florida, felons are banned for life from voting unless granted clemency.

State lawmakers decided to weed out felons and other ineligible voters in 1998 after a Miami mayoral election was overturned because votes had been cast by the convicted and the dead. Election officials subsequently hired Database Technologies Inc. of Boca Raton to help with the daunting task of scanning the state's massive database of registered voters for felons and dead people. They paid DBT $3.3 million during the past two years.

The company, now a subsidiary of ChoicePoint of Atlanta, produced a list of 82,389 "probable" and "possible" felons before last year's election. The list identified thousands of legal voters as criminals, forcing them to prove their innocence before they could cast a ballot.

But that was just one of many damaging consequences of the state's anti-felon campaign - an effort born of an unwieldy law, founded on less-than-reliable data and made worse by decisions of elections officials, The Post found. For example:

At least 108 law-abiding people were purged from the voter rolls as suspected criminals, only to be cleared after the election. DBT's computers had matched these people with felons, though in dozens of cases they did not share the same name, birthdate, gender or race. One Naples man was told he couldn't vote because he was linked with a felon still serving time in a Moore Haven prison.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClTxaY8Uy5U

[jimnyc]

When a 1st came on this board i pointed to same types of computer issues in favor or "Rs in Florida and Maryland and Ohio and a few precincts in the south west. Diebold machines.
the R's here told me it never happened. the newspapers, TV news all left wing lies, the computer documentation wasn't good enough, the computer experts where wrong plus it was all just sour grapes.

today I'm sure no one would ever hack computers, Rs are just paranoid here, it's all just an honest mistake folks.

a few lines i remember well
"just because voting machines can be hacked it doesn't mean they were."
And "you can't prove it was on purpose." also "you think it's some kind of conspiracy, Ridiculous!"

But now well the demon-crats are ebel ebel ebel we KNOW they cheat at the polls, the Right NEVER does, never has and never will amen and AMEN!! :salute:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:red states rule (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?60-red-states-rule) ="

If you are once again going to try and point out some sort of hypocrisy, you should be prepared to make the actual quotes. Also, WHO in this thread made different comments now than they did back then? I don't see that RSR posted in this thread.

"But now" - but now what? Did Stiletto, Longtermguy or NT post about the things you speak of back then? I'll say the same as NT - BS. You THOUGHT you were gonna play the gotcha game again, pointing out some sort of hypocrisy, but it's just not there.

Maybe what you meant to say is that some OTHER members back then didn't believe the claims of fraud/cheating? And that today, some do believe the Dems are involved in fraud/cheating? You didn't just point out differences, your tone is as if people somehow changed their minds now that it's democrats involved/accused. I believe you did that in another thread with new members stating different than what others did a long time ago. This is what happens when you rush to make up funny quotes to mock other members. :)

[revelarts]

Diebold Indicted: Its spectre still haunts Ohio elections (http://columbusfreepress.com/article/diebold-indicted-its-spectre-still-haunts-ohio-elections)

http://columbusfreepress.com/article/diebold-indicted-its-spectre-still-haunts-ohio-elections



....October 22, 2013 alleging that the North Canton, Ohio-based security and manufacturing company bribed government officials and falsified documents to obtain business in China, Indonesia and Russia. Diebold has agreed to pay $50 million to settle the two criminal counts against it.
This is not the first time Diebold’s been accused of bribery. In 2005, the Free Press exposed that Matt Damschroder, Republican chair of the Franklin County of Elections in 2004, reported that a key Diebold operative told Damschroder he made a $50,000 contribution to then-Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell's “political interests” while Blackwell was evaluating Diebold's bids for state purchasing contracts. Damschroder admitted to personally accepting a $10,000 check from former Diebold contractor Pasquale “Patsy” Gallina made out to the Franklin County Republican Party. That contribution was made while Damschroder was involved in evaluating Diebold bids for county contracts. Damschroder was suspended for a month without pay for the incident. Despite the scandal, he was later appointed as Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted's Director of Elections.

The ghosts of 2004 election irregularities

Diebold was at the center of Ohio’s 2004 election debacle, much of this captured in an article by Free Press Senior Editor Harvey Wasserman and this author, entitled, “Diebold’s Political Machine.” Walden "Wally" O'Dell, chairman of the board and chief executive of Diebold, was a long-time funder of Republican candidates. In September 2003, he held a packed $1,000-per-head GOP fundraiser at his 10,800-square-foot mansion Cotswold Manor in Upper Arlington, Ohio. He was feted as a guest at then-President George W. Bush's Texas ranch, joining a cadre of “Pioneers and Rangers” who pledged to raise more than $100,000 for the Bush reelection campaign.
Most memorably, in 2003 O'Dell penned a letter pledging his commitment “to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President.” O'Dell defended his actions, telling the Cleveland Plain Dealer “I'm not doing anything wrong or complicated.” But he also promised to lower his political profile and “try to be more sensitive.” But the Diebold boss' partisan cards were squarely on the table.
Prior to the 2004 election, Blackwell tried to award a $100 million unbid contract to Diebold for electronic voting machines. A storm of public outrage and a series of lawsuits forced him to cancel the deal. But a substantial percentage of Ohio's 2004 votes were counted by Diebold software and Diebold Opti-scan machines which frequently malfunctioned in the Democratic stronghold of Toledo. It was revealed in 2006 that Blackwell owned Diebold stock.
Diebold's GEMS election software was used in about half of Ohio counties in the 2004 election. Because of Blackwell's effort, 41 counties also used Diebold machines in Ohio's highly dubious 2005 election.
Also in the Ohio 2004 election, a whistleblower leaked documents revealing that Diebold had allegedly used illegal, uncertified hardware and software during California election.
The ghosts in the Diebold election machines go bump in the 2002 election

Wherever Diebold and the other most well-known voting machine company Election Systems & Software (ES&S) go, irregularities and historic Republican upsets follow. Alastair Thompson, writing for scoop.co of New Zealand, explored whether or not the 2002 U.S. mid-term elections were “fixed by electronic voting machines supplied by Republican-affiliated companies.” The Scoop investigation concluded that: “The state where the biggest upset occurred, Georgia, is also the state that ran its election with the most electronic voting machines.” Those machines were supplied by Diebold. ES&S and Diebold would later merge and now count about 80 percent of all U.S. votes.
Wired News reported that “. . . a former worker in Diebold’s Georgia warehouse says the company installed patches on its machine before the state’s 2002 gubernatorial election that were never certified by independent testing authorities or cleared with Georgia election officials.” Questions were raised in Texas when three Republican candidates in Comal County each received exactly the same number of votes – 18,181 – on ES&S machines.
Following the 2003 California election, an audit of the company revealed that Diebold Election Systems voting machines installed uncertified software in all 17 counties using its equipment. In 2012, Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted approved a secret last-minute contract allowing ES&S to install untested, “experimental” software patches on central voting tabulators in 39 Ohio counties. Congressional testimony exposed that last-minute patches were installed in several Ohio counties including Miami and Clermont in the 2004 election.
Johns Hopkins researchers at the Information Security Institute issued a report declaring that Diebold’s electronic voting software contained “stunning flaws.” The researchers concluded that vote totals could be altered at the voting machines and by remote access. Diebold vigorously refuted the Johns Hopkins report, claiming the researchers came to “a multitude of false conclusions.”
Perhaps to settle the issue, apparently an insider leaked documents from the Diebold Election Systems website and posted internal documents from the company to Bev Harris' Black Box Voting website. Diebold went to court to stop, according to court records, the “wholesale reproduction” of some 13,000 pages of company material.
The Associated Press reported in November 2003 that: “Computer programmers, ISPs and students at [at] least 20 universities, including the University of California, Berkeley and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology received cease and desist letters” from Diebold. A group of Swarthmore College students launched an “electronic civil disobedience” campaign to keep the hacked documents permanently posted on the Internet....



there's more info if you want to know.
If you can bear the idea that Rs have been corrupt as well as Ds.

it does no good to say the Ds are worse. the system is crap. paper ballots and local counts are the best way to avoid issues.
People are people and sometimes they cheat... for the greater good of course.(or the right price)

[revelarts]

If you are once again going to try and point out some sort of hypocrisy, you should be prepared to make the actual quotes. Also, WHO in this thread made different comments now than they did back then? I don't see that RSR posted in this thread.

"But now" - but now what? Did Stiletto, Longtermguy or NT post about the things you speak of back then? I'll say the same as NT - BS. You THOUGHT you were gonna play the gotcha game again, pointing out some sort of hypocrisy, but it's just not there.

Maybe what you meant to say is that some OTHER members back then didn't believe the claims of fraud/cheating? And that today, some do believe the Dems are involved in fraud/cheating? You didn't just point out differences, your tone is as if people somehow changed their minds now that it's democrats involved/accused. I believe you did that in another thread with new members stating different than what others did a long time ago. This is what happens when you rush to make up funny quotes to mock other members. :)

Jim, I made it clear my comments where about unnamed posters at that time. right?
I never accused the current posters did i? no i did not.
NT asked me to provide quotes did you miss that part.
should i ignore his request, he assumes I've... misspoke.
Now you Ask me again, you assume i've ... misspoken.

I was prepared to leave it at my original comments.
but both of you seem to want some confirmation or i'm lying.
But IMO it's to dodge my main point, which is not so much much hypocrisy or really what i'd consider selective blindness, but the main point i'm trying to make is that there's also Voter fraud by Rs in elections. Huge fraud.

But Because I don't feel like finding all the old quotes YOU an NT want to see. I'll retract the comment.
My apologies, I'm LYING about those comments.
...
No one has ever challenged me in anyway on my facts back in the day. Everyone agreed with me that the Rs were as bad as the Ds and that the FL, Ohio, Maryland and other elections were FIXED and tampered with by the republicans in the early 2000's. the media did not lie, and no one was into wild conspiracy, and the documentation was perfect, and no one had to go to court as the only way to prove Rs had committed fraud. Everyone agreed that all the evidence showed that R's stole elections too.
THAT'S really what happened.

Soo, Now that I've reposted a few examples of the reports, I'm sure we'll all agree again.
R's have cheated just as the Ds have and we need to go back to paper ballots.

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rMpQKqZhM

[jimnyc]

Jim, I made it clear my comments where about unnamed posters at that time. right?
I never accused the current posters did i? no i did not.
NT asked me to provide quotes did you miss that part.
should i ignore his request, he assumes I've... misspoke.
Now you Ask me again, you assume i've ... misspoken.

I was prepared to leave it at my original comments.
but both of you seem to want some confirmation or i'm lying.
But IMO it's to dodge my main point, which is not so much much hypocrisy or really what i'd consider selective blindness, but the main point i'm trying to make is that there's also Voter fraud by Rs in elections. Huge fraud.

But Because I don't feel like finding all the old quotes YOU an NT want to see. I'll retract the comment.
My apologies, I'm LYING about those comments.
...
No one has ever challenged me in anyway on my facts back in the day. Everyone agreed with me that the Rs were as bad as the Ds and that the FL, Ohio, Maryland and other elections were FIXED and tampered with by the republicans in the early 2000's. the media did not lie, and no one was into wild conspiracy, and the documentation was perfect, and no one had to go to court as the only way to prove Rs had committed fraud. Everyone agreed that all the evidence showed that R's stole elections too.
THAT'S really what happened.

Soo, Now that I've reposted a few examples of the reports, I'm sure we'll all agree again.
R's have cheated just as the Ds have and we need to go back to paper ballots.



Are you saying, that in your initial post, you were NOT implying that people seemed to be playing a different tune then they did at another time? You even went as far as to try and recall a few quotes, so it sure seemed like you were trying to make a connection between prior posts and this thread. If not, my bad, but then I wouldn't have saw the point in pointing out any type of hypocrisy if it hasn't existed in this thread. :dunno:

And I didn't say you were lying, just that I thought you jumped the gun and thought you would point out said hypocrisy. I just don't see the point of calling out former members/posts if they have zilch to do with this thread then.

[jimnyc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rMpQKqZhM'

Can you please post a mainstream article on this story? What is his name? My one search "maybe" shows it as Daniel Noe, is that correct? I just don't want Youtube videos myself, I'd rather read a few stories and piece it all together.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

When a 1st came on this board i pointed to same types of computer issues in favor or "Rs in Florida and Maryland and Ohio and a few precincts in the south west. Diebold machines.
the R's here told me it never happened. the newspapers, TV news all left wing lies, the computer documentation wasn't good enough, the computer experts where wrong plus it was all just sour grapes.

today I'm sure no one would ever hack computers, Rs are just paranoid here, it's all just an honest mistake folks.

a few lines i remember well
"just because voting machines can be hacked it doesn't mean they were."
And "you can't prove it was on purpose." also "you think it's some kind of conspiracy, Ridiculous!"

But now well the demon-crats are ebel ebel ebel we KNOW they cheat at the polls, the Right NEVER does, never has and never will amen and AMEN!! :salute:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rev,, dems always cheat and why do you think its the dems absolutely against having a nationwide voter id law?
They are against the ID law because it would stop a majority of their cheating--plain , simple ,logical and true.
The most corrupt political party that ever existed in Western civilization is this current dem party IMHO.
They are true enemies of this nation.. A damn fact!!!--Tyr

[jimnyc]

'

Can you please post a mainstream article on this story? What is his name? My one search "maybe" shows it as Daniel Noe, is that correct? I just don't want Youtube videos myself, I'd rather read a few stories and piece it all together.

Nevermind, "Stephen Heller"? Finding more now!!

[jimnyc]

An article for others, looking for more now...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/03/01/190888/-More-details-and-links-re-Diebold-Whistleblower

[fj1200]

I'm pretty sure there's a thread in Dem-Bizarro world where some lefties are decrying "calibration issues" leading to R vote switching. :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This is a NON-story cuz it is all just an innocent 'coincidence' of things that Just Happened......kinda like the long list of things that "just happened" to be before B.O.'s run for president during 2007/8. So many lies.......still, so MANY LIES!!! But hey; it is all just coincidnetal.......RIGHT?

Any one of these 'coincidences' when taken singularly may not appear to mean much, but when taken as a whole, a computer would blow a circuit if it had to calculate the odds that these so-called coincidences occurred by chance alone. Sit back, get a favorite beverage, then read and ponder the Obama-related 'coincidences', then superimpose the bigger picture of most recent events i.e., Fast and furious, Benghazi, The trading of our Navy S.E.A.L.S, the IRS scandal, the NSA revelations, favoring a nuclear Iran over our allies like Israel, ignoring Ebola and other such diseases that B.O. allowed and encouraged, The support we've given and the soft hand we've taken against Hamas and ISIS with many radical muSLUMS appointed within the ranks of D.C.……then pray for our country.

Obama
just happened to know 60s far-left radical revolutionary William Ayers, whose father
just happened to be Thomas Ayers, who
just happened to be a close friend of Obamas communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis, who
just happened to work at the communist-sympathizing Chicago Defender with Vernon Jarrett, who
just happened to later become the father-in-law of Iranian-born leftist Valerie Jarrett, who Obama
just happened to choose as his closest White House adviser, and who
just happened to have been CEO of Habitat Company, which
just happened to manage public housing in Chicago, which
just happened to get millions of dollars from the Illinois state legislature, and which
just happened not to properly maintain the housing which eventually
just happened to require demolition. *** Not to mention that this is the property that would have been the grounds that hosted the Olympics, had Obama's efforts been successful****
Valerie Jarrett also
just happened to work for the city of Chicago, and
just happened to hire Michelle LaVaughan Robinson (later Mrs. Obama), who
just happened to have worked at the Sidney Austin law firm, where former fugitive from the FBI Bernardine Dohrn also just happened to work, and where Barack Obama
just happened to get a summer job.

Bernardine Dohrn
just happened to be married to William Ayers, with whom she
just happened to have hidden from the FBI at a San Francisco marina, along with Donald Warden, who
just happened to change his name to Khalid al-Mansour, and Warden/al-Mansour who
just happened to be a mentor of Black Panther Party founders Huey Newton and Bobby Seale and a close associate of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, and al-Mansour
just happened to be financial adviser to a Saudi Prince, who
just happened to donate cash to Harvard, for which Obama
just happened to get a critical letter of recommendation from Percy Sutton, who just happened to have been the attorney for Malcolm X, who
just happened to know Kenyan politician Tom Mboya, who
just happened to be a close friend of Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., who
just happened to meet Malcolm X when he traveled to Kenya .


Obama, Sr. (whom I happen to believe is NOT B.O.'s father).
just happened to have his education at the University of Hawaii paid for by the Laubach Literacy Institute, which
just happened to have been supported by Elizabeth Mooney Kirk, who
just happened to be a friend of Malcolm X, who
just happened to have been associated with the Nation of Islam, which was later headed by Louis Farrakhan, who
just happens to live very close to Obamas Chicago mansion, which also
just happens to be located very close to the residence of William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who
just happens to have been occasional baby-sitters for Malia and Natasha Obama, whose parents
just happened to have no concern exposing their daughters to bomb-making communists.


After attending Occidental College and Columbia University, where he
just happened to have foreign Muslim roommates, Obama moved to Chicago to work for the Industrial Areas Foundation, an organization that
just happened to have been founded by Marxist and radical agitator Saul the Red Alinsky, author of Rules for Radicals, who
just happened to be the topic of Hillary Rodham Clintons thesis at Wellesley College, and Obamas $25,000 salary at IAF
just happened to be funded by a grant from the Woods Fund, which was founded by the Woods family, whose Sahara Coal company
just happened to provide coal to Commonwealth Edison, whose CEO just happened to be Thomas Ayers, whose son William Ayers
just happened to serve on the board of the Woods Fund, along with Obama.


Obama also worked on voter registration drives in Chicago in the 1980s and
just happened to work with leftist political groups like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and Socialist International (SI), through which Obama met Carl Davidson, who
just happened to travel to Cuba during the Vietnam War to sabotage the U.S. war effort, and who
just happened to be a former member of the SDS and a member of the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, which
just happened to sponsor a 2002 anti-war rally at which Obama spoke, and which
just happened to have been organized by Marilyn Katz, a former SDS activist and later public relations consultant who
just happened to be a long-time friend of Obamas political hatchet man, David Axelrod.


Obama joined Trinity United Church of Christ (TUCC), whose pastor was Reverend Jeremiah Wright, a fiery orator who
just happened to preach Marxism and Black Liberation Theology and who delivered anti-white, anti-Jew, and anti-American sermons, which Obama
just happened never to hear because he
just happened to miss church only on the days when Wright was at his most enthusiastic, and Obama
just happened never to notice that Oprah Winfrey left the church because it was too radical, and
just happened never to notice that the church gave the vile anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award.


Although no one had ever heard of him at the time, Obama
just happened to receive an impossible-to-believe $125,000 advance to write a book about race relations, which he
just happened to fail to write while using the cash to vacation in Bali with his wife Michelle, and despite his record of non-writing he just happened to receive a second advance, for $40,000, from another publisher, and he eventually completed a manuscript called Dreams From My Father, which
just happened to strongly reflect the writing style of William Ayers, who
just happened to trample on an American flag for the cover photograph of the popular Chicago magazine, which Obama
just happened never to see even though it appeared on newsstands throughout the city.


Obama was hired by the law firm Miner, Banhill and Galland, which
just happened to specialize in negotiating state government contracts to develop low-income housing, and which
just happened to deal with now-imprisoned Tony Rezko and his firm Rezar, and with slumlord Valerie Jarrett, and the law firms Judson Miner
just happened to have been a classmate of Bernardine Dohrn, wife of William Ayers.

In 1994 Obama represented ACORN and another plaintiff in a lawsuit against Citibank for denying mortgages to blacks (Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Federal Savings Bank), and the lawsuit
just happened to result in banks being blackmailed into approving sub-prime loans for poor credit risks, a trend which
just happened to spread nationwide, and which
just happened to lead to the collapse of the housing bubble, which
just happened to help Obama defeat John McCain in the 2008 presidential election.


In 1996 Obama ran for the Illinois State Senate and joined the New Party, which
just happened to promote Marxism, and Obama was supported by Dr. Quentin Yong, a socialist who
just happened to support a government takeover of the health care system.


In late 1999, Obama purportedly engaged in homosexual activities and cocaine-snorting in the back of a limousine with a man named Larry Sinclair, who claims he was contacted in late 2007 by Donald Young, who
just happened to be the gay choir director of Obamas Chicago church and who shared information with Sinclair about Obama, and Young
just happened to be murdered on December 23, 2007, just weeks after Larry Bland, another gay member of the church
just happened to be murdered, and both murders
just happened to have never been solved. In 2008 Sinclair held a press conference to discuss his claims, and
just happened to be arrested immediately after the event, based on a warrant issued by Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden, who
just happens to be the son of Joe Biden.


In 2003 Obama and his wife attended a dinner in honor of Rashid Khalidi, who
just happened to be a former PLO operative, harsh critic of Israel , and advocate of Palestinian rights, and who Obama claims he does not know, even though the Obamas
just happened to have dined more than once at the home of Khalidi and his wife, Mona, and
just happened to have used them as occasional baby-sitters. Obama reportedly praised Khalidi at the decidedly anti-Semitic event, which William Ayers
just happened to also attend, and the event Obama pretends he never attended was sponsored by the Arab American Action Network, to which Obama
just happened to have funneled cash while serving on the board of the Woods Fund with William Ayers, and one speaker at the dinner remarked that if Palestinians cannot secure a return of their land, Israel will never see a day of peace, and entertainment at the dinner included a Muslim childrens dance whose performances
just happened to include simulated be-headings with fake swords, and stomping on American, Israeli, and British flags, and Obama allegedly told the audience that Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine and there has been genocide against the Palestinian people by (the) Israelis, and the Los Angeles Times has a videotape of the event but
just happens to refuse to make it public.


In the 2004 Illinois Democrat primary race for the U.S. Senate, front-runner Blair Hull
just happened to be forced out of the race after David Axelrod just happened to manage to get Hulls sealed divorce records unsealed, which
just happened to enable Obama to win the primary, so he could face popular Republican Jack Ryan, whose sealed child custody records from his divorce
just happened to become unsealed, forcing Ryan to withdraw from the race, which
just happened to enable the unqualified Obama to waltz into the U.S. Senate, where, after a mere 143 days of work, he
just happened to decide he was qualified to run for President of the United States.

and now you know the rest of the story.....

Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society: Aristotle

















Best damn post I've read on any political forum in years!!!!!---:beer:


ALL , ALL OF IT , A MERE UNIMAGINABLE LONG, LONG COINCIDENCE MY FRIEND...---:laugh: -Tyr

[revelarts]

Rev,, dems always cheat and why do you think its the dems absolutely against having a nationwide voter id law?
They are against the ID law because it would stop a majority of their cheating--plain , simple ,logical and true.
The most corrupt political party that ever existed in Western civilization is this current dem party IMHO.
They are true enemies of this nation.. A damn fact!!!--Tyr
LOL!

I could be wrong but i suspect no one here will ask you prove any of those statements.



'

Can you please post a mainstream article on this story? What is his name? My one search "maybe" shows it as Daniel Noe, is that correct? I just don't want Youtube videos myself, I'd rather read a few stories and piece it all together.
Has to be a "mainstream" article.
what do you consider mainstream these days?
His name, no problem, it's in the Video it's "Chris Hood".

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Allegations_about_2002_Georgia_election_raise_1121 .html
It links to a rolling stone article that's has a bad link.

here are a few more links,
http://www.velvetrevolution.us/electionstrikeforce/2008/08/worlds_leading_computer_securi.html
"Leading Computer Security Expert Slams Diebold
In an interview from October, 2006, that has only now seen the light of day, Stephen Spoonamore (http://cybrinth-africa.com/Stephen_Spoonamore.html), one of the world's leading experts in cyber crime and a self-described "life-long Republican" destroys Diebold's already non-existent credibility.

Spoonamore lays it out for anyone to see and understand. If you care about America and it's survival as a democratic republic, you'll watch this interview.
The interviews are on YouTube and are being carried by a new site created by Velvet Revolution, RoveCyberGate.com (http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/)."
......
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3826

.....
if you can take principled honest leftie, talking to another Diebold Whistle blower
http://www.bradblog.com/audio/PeterBCollins_StephenHeller_062708.mp3

.....
http://www.securitypronews.com/security-expert-warns-of-rigged-election-2008-09
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joan_bru_070826__22fooled_again_22_serie.ht m
.......
http://blackboxvoting.org/


http://virginvalleyteaparty.org/diebold-whistle-blower-speaks-out/ (http://blackboxvoting.org/)

[revelarts]

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/


Verified Voting provides resources that allow you to find what voting equipment is used in each State, how the equipment works and laws and regulations in place across the country to promote transparent and verifiable elections. Click below to visit The Verifier (https://www.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/)interactive map, and our pages devoted to Voting Equipment (https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/), Post-Election Audits (https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/post-election-audits/) and Internet Voting (https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/internet-voting/).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/127838/article.html

[jimnyc]

I could be wrong but i suspect no one here will ask you prove any of those statements.[/QUOTE}

I read his post as opinions.


Has to be a "mainstream" article.
what do you consider mainstream these days?
His name, no problem, it's in the Video it's "Chris Hood".


I prefer ANY article other than a Youtube video. And if an article, I would prefer it to be a recognized media organization that deals in "news", not a website that perhaps deals with one issue or is one sided. But once I found the correct name and the article at Dailykos, then I found many others. But most people aren't going to take the word of a Youtube video, or maybe not even watch something that takes 5 minutes that they can read in less than a minute. You always get angry when I say this, but I'll be my last dollar that the majority of your videos go unclicked. It took me less time to take the title and put it into Google and find many crappy sites, dug into a few of them and found the name, then another search on Google and then found articles. I did that in less time than it would have taken to watch the video. I'm NOT saying to not post them, but maybe in addition then? I'm just being honest. But maybe it's just me, maybe I would lose that bet.

While I'm sure the articles are correct, and I take your word on that, "bradblog" isn't exactly mainstream. Nor is Rawstory. Nor is Velvetrevolution. Nor is a teaparty site. Nor is a site dedicated to voting stuff. While they may be legitimate, and truthful, they are not "main stream" press. I trust places that have known credentials and have some sort of history delivering the news.

[revelarts]

I prefer ANY article other than a Youtube video. And if an article, I would prefer it to be a recognized media organization that deals in "news", not a website that perhaps deals with one issue or is one sided. But once I found the correct name and the article at Dailykos, then I found many others. But most people aren't going to take the word of a Youtube video, or maybe not even watch something that takes 5 minutes that they can read in less than a minute. You always get angry when I say this, but I'll be my last dollar that the majority of your videos go unclicked. It took me less time to take the title and put it into Google and find many crappy sites, dug into a few of them and found the name, then another search on Google and then found articles. I did that in less time than it would have taken to watch the video. I'm NOT saying to not post them, but maybe in addition then? I'm just being honest. But maybe it's just me, maybe I would lose that bet.

While I'm sure the articles are correct, and I take your word on that, "bradblog" isn't exactly mainstream. Nor is Rawstory. Nor is Velvetrevolution. Nor is a teaparty site. Nor is a site dedicated to voting stuff. While they may be legitimate, and truthful, they are not "main stream" press. I trust places that have known credentials and have some sort of history delivering the news.

hey I have no problem with some people not wanting to see videos.
funny the thing is i'm danged if i do danged if i don't.
If i post the text of articles some people complain that my post are TOO LONG.
If i post Videos I get complaints that they a don't watch or they are TOO LONG.

If i post just the plain comment that refutes or puts a different light on an issue
people ask for "PROOF".
and I'm left in the dilemma articles or videos, MSM or alt.
But here the real thing Jim.
Sometimes the MAINSTREAM source I'm aware of is NBC ABC CNN FOX BBC PBS and or other video
should i bother myself to search out an article to please part of the board.
Sometimes the MAINSTREAM source I'm aware of is WallStreet Journal, Local newspaper, USA today.
should i bother myself to search out a video to please part of the board.
Sometimes the source I'm aware is ONLY a few audio interviews with a victim, a wittiness, former/current employee, or an official done by some non-MAINSTREAN source.
Should i bother myself to search out videos and/or articles on a MAINSTREAM source.

add to that
I find that left wing sites or sites people are not familiar with are often dismissed.
But a sites like Brietbart are GOLD, while Bradblog -which is practically it's leftwing MIRROR image- is suspect.
FOX news is Ok but MSNBC the poor left wing mirror image is suspect unless they are saying something crazy to be ridiculed.

whatever, I have no problem with people wanting to see my contrary info in a form they prefer, but as you say the presenter doesn't change the reality of the facts. And I'm not going to find anything that suits everyone here anyway and i'm not going to try.
But If you ask for more , as you did,
I' may try to oblige but other than that. I think you'll agree, I'll keep posting what i've got.

[jimnyc]

hey I have no problem with some people not wanting to see videos.
funny the thing is i'm danged if i do danged if i don't.
If i post the text of articles some people complain that my post are TOO LONG.
If i post Videos I get complaints that they a don't watch or they are TOO LONG.

Slow down, killer! Your rant was too long, I cut it down to 2 questions.

People won't complain about the text of an article, as members should be posting a few paragraphs and linking to the rest. Sometimes you post like 37 articles at once in a post with your own words which are like another 14 articles, and that's why a few of us complained. :)

You're fine with videos. You're fine with text. I was simply saying, especially for my own benefit, that it might be wise to include an actual article/story with things like this, to make it easier for the reader, as IMO I don't think everyone is going to watch lengthy videos.

[revelarts]

Slow down, killer! Your rant was too long, I cut it down to 2 questions.

People won't complain about the text of an article, as members should be posting a few paragraphs and linking to the rest. Sometimes you post like 37 articles at once in a post with your own words which are like another 14 articles, and that's why a few of us complained. :)

You're fine with videos. You're fine with text. I was simply saying, especially for my own benefit, that it might be wise to include an actual article/story with things like this, to make it easier for the reader, as IMO I don't think everyone is going to watch lengthy videos.

lol, see, now even my rants are too long:dunno:

here's the last bit if you didn't make it to the end

"...whatever, I have no problem with people wanting to see my contrary info in a form they prefer, but as you say the presenter doesn't change the reality of the facts. And I'm not going to find anything that suits everyone here anyway and i'm not going to try.
But If you ask for more , as you did,
I may try to oblige but other than that. I think you'll agree, I'll keep posting what i've got. "

[jimnyc]

lol, see, now even my rants are too long:dunno:

here's the last bit if you didn't make it to the end

"...whatever, I have no problem with people wanting to see my contrary info in a form they prefer, but as you say the presenter doesn't change the reality of the facts. And I'm not going to find anything that suits everyone here anyway and i'm not going to try.
But If you ask for more , as you did,
I may try to oblige but other than that. I think you'll agree, I'll keep posting what i've got. "

I read the whole thing, was just too much to reply to all of it. :)