Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?


The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

As above so below.

At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

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Romans Chapter 6
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<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the Standard King James Version. Switch to the 1611 KJV Romans Chapter 6 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Romans-Chapter-6/) </small>

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-6-1/)
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-6-2/)

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

<tbody>
Romans Chapter 6

Next >> (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-Chapter-7/)

</tbody>
<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the Standard King James Version. Switch to the 1611 KJV Romans Chapter 6 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Romans-Chapter-6/) </small>

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-6-1/)
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-6-2/)

Thanks for showing that you cannot argue for your God's morals.

That is the point of this O.P. and you have made my point.

Regards
DL

[DLT]

Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?


The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

As above so below.

At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?

Regards
DL


Damn.....and here I just thought I'd seen convoluted illogic, verbal gobbledygook, gibberish and drivel coming fom you...lol.

What you are calling an "immoral form of justice" was a deed done to save mankind from sin, ffrom evil and from himself. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about God punishing me for spewing such BS and nonsense (proselytizing for Satan).

I have great concern for your immortal soul. Second-guessing and judging God is really not a good idea, dude. Seriously.

[tailfins]

Thanks for showing that you cannot argue for your God's morals.

That is the point of this O.P. and you have made my point.

Regards
DL


Proverbs 26:4<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Proverbs 26:4 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Proverbs-26-4/).</small>


Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Damn.....and here I just thought I'd seen convoluted illogic, verbal gobbledygook, gibberish and drivel coming fom you...lol.

What you are calling an "immoral form of justice" was a deed done to save mankind from sin, ffrom evil and from himself. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about God punishing me for spewing such BS and nonsense (proselytizing for Satan).

I have great concern for your immortal soul. Second-guessing and judging God is really not a good idea, dude. Seriously.

All God had to do to forgive us was to just forgive us.

Only an insane and immoral God would say, I will forgive you but let me kill my son first.

In essence, that is what your God did.

And you support that.

Regards
DL

[DLT]

All God had to do to forgive us was to just forgive us.

Only an insane and immoral God would say, I will forgive you but let me kill my son first.

In essence, that is what your God did.

And you support that.

Regards
DL

He didn't "kill his son". His son was the sacrificial lamb to save mankind. ALL of mankind that chose TO be saved. It was THE worthy cause of worthy causes and yes, it was necessary...considering how low man had fallen into sin. It was the only way mankind could be saved, and since God is love, it was done out of his love for all of us sinners.

(just my two cents)

And just because you refute Him and refuse Him, he still loves you. There's still time to save yourself. But don't wait 'too' long.

[tailfins]

All God had to do to forgive us was to just forgive us.

Only an insane and immoral God would say, I will forgive you but let me kill my son first.

In essence, that is what your God did.

And you support that.

Regards
DL


Psalm 14:1King James Version (KJV)The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

He didn't "kill his son". His son was the sacrificial lamb to save mankind. ALL of mankind that chose TO be saved. It was THE worthy cause of worthy causes and yes, it was necessary...considering how low man had fallen into sin. It was the only way mankind could be saved, and since God is love, it was done out of his love for all of us sinners.

(just my two cents)

And just because you refute Him and refuse Him, he still loves you. There's still time to save yourself. But don't wait 'too' long.



Only those with a prick for Go would think God would condemn his creations

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.



Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Psalm 14:1King James Version (KJV)

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Faith v/s Reason

Only fools like you embrace faith without facts.



Faith is a way for you to quit using your "God given" power of Reason and Logic, so you will believe doctrines that moral men reject as immoral.

The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can you reason with God when you throw away reason?

Religions, especially Christianity reply.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

Yes.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Yes.

Thanks for the argument sowing the justification you have for embracing human sacrifice.

I love the fact that such Christian apologetics lasts forever.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Thanks for the argument sowing the justification you have for embracing human sacrifice.

I love the fact that such Christian apologetics lasts forever.

Regards
DL

You did not ask for an argument.

[hjmick]

This guy is a bore.

[jimnyc]

This guy is a bore.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/213/6/4/bored_to_death_o__by_eurates-d59fv2z.jpg

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You did not ask for an argument.

I need not ask intelligent people.

Reads
DL

[jimnyc]

I need not ask intelligent people.

Reads
DL

Reads?

And you said what about intelligence, sparky?

[gabosaurus]

Thanks for showing that you cannot argue for your God's morals.


What would you know about morals? Obviously you have no morals or discretion.

[BoogyMan]

Christ willingly offered himself on that cross at Calvary in order that the blemish of sin could be removed from man if he were to be but faithful and obedient. Christ WILLINGLY gave himself up.

God's morality is not to be judged by you, me, or anyone else.


Jn 10:11,15,17,18

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


17,18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?


The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

As above so below.

At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?

Regards
DL

[NightTrain]

Seriously!

This Gnostic nutjob in Ottawa, Canada has nothing better to do than copy/paste stupid arguments and mass post them all over the web in the hope that he can corrupt someone's faith.

Here's some food for thought, Gnostic :


Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say , Amen.

You're not doing shit around here, but it's possible that you've led one astray. Are you prepared to answer for it?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Christ willingly offered himself on that cross at Calvary in order that the blemish of sin could be removed from man if he were to be but faithful and obedient. Christ WILLINGLY gave himself up.


He said, I do my fathers will and not my own.



God's morality is not to be judged by you, me, or anyone else.



I am not surprised that you ignore you bibles directions.

1 Thesalonian 5;21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

The only way you can like the genocidal son murderer you follow is not to look at what you follow as he is far from good.

Regards
DL

[red state]

Proverbs 26:4

<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Proverbs 26:4 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Proverbs-26-4/).</small>


Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

So true!!!!! One must question whom is the bigger fool; The FOOL or the fool arguing with the fool. I even had a thread on that very subject within a totally ran and dedicated liberal board to where I would post only within their conservative section. The open forum was simply too liberal with the mods catering to the libs so I posed that last thread before moving on to the conservative ONLY part of that site.......and eventually to this site due to pretend liberals invading the conservative arena.

So, I suggest that we pray for GC but leave him/her to their own vomit. Like a child, GC seems to get a kick out of the mere fact that she/he gets a rise or REPLY from his/her filthy, negative posts which contain no foundation to begin with.

Of course, that is just me, God forbid that I "tell" any of you how, when or where to post (as some on this board) but I would like to see GC simply GO AWAY as some others have done.....including the recent absence of those who like to tell folks HOW to post, how long to post and how not to post.

This will be the last time I am guilty of responding to a FOOL's thread. So, GC.....you can simply GO AWAY for all I care cuz the prayers are all that will help you.

PS: glad to see the KJV alive and well with others......there's a BIG difference in the REAL THING and other versions......