Why, believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why, believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God.

Because that God is you. Instinctively speaking.

Our hiving or groupish natures and desire for friendship and fellowship lead us and statistics are showing how well our selfishness is working in terms of rapprochement for each of us to the whole world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0)

This tribalism is both a blessing and a curse. The hive/you, seeks to unite with the other hives, --- is everyone's basic hive mind's number one desire. This is your base driving force for survival.

We desire one God and human master above all other desires. We all crave a monotheistic world while wanting that God to be ourselves. We call that freedom. We are all in this together while all wishing to stand alone and above. Some call this our selfish gene and without it we would go extinct.

Note the wisdom of the first few self-centred commandments. Like that God, we are all quite self-centered. Not near as barbaric as the bible God in most cases though, --- and our recognition of duty sends that self-centeredness to duty and love, --- when it turns outwardly or towards others.

If I was to define God as, --- ( just the best set of rules to live life by ), --- then the statement, --- believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God, --- becomes truth.

That God, --- described as rules and laws, --- is what believers seek.

Non-believers seek the same thing, but with an ideal that is a human leader (s), and not a supernatural being.

It seems that our natural selfishness turned duty is serving us well as a species if the trends are real. Remember to continue to seek an ideal in rules and laws.

If you have found God, you are an idol worshiper. Your bible or holy book condemns such an action.

As said in Candid, we are in the best of all possible worlds, because this is the only possible world. The world evolves and our political Gods as well as our religious Gods and masters must also all evolve.

We all seek a Monotheistic God and we all want him or her to be us. We do look outwardly though for the role model, --- and that is what makes the search worthy. It is what makes us more fully human.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded)

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y)

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. God is that part of you that is more fully human.

Regards
DL

[NightTrain]

Gnostic!

Where ya been, buddy?

You must have missed it, so I'll ask it again : Did you check out any of those Churches there in Ottawa?

I have more that I can post for you if those weren't to your taste.

[revelarts]

Why, believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God.

Because that God is you. Instinctively speaking.

....
When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. God is that part of you that is more fully human.

Regards
DL

wow,
the lies your promote are still the same as the old ones, just with more words.

Genesis
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


But there are more honest opinions

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom,
4 Who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.


Isaiash 45:
18 The Lord alone is God!
He created the heavens and made a world where people can live,
instead of creating an empty desert.
The Lord alone is God;
there are no others.

[darin]

Using scripture to prove or as evidence of God is logical fallacy at best; as God is vastly bigger and more complex than the bible; the writings humans decided are "of god" assumes the reader already believes.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

wow,
the lies your promote are still the same as the old ones, just with more words.

Genesis
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


But there are more honest opinions

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom,
4 Who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.


Isaiash 45:
18 The Lord alone is God!
He created the heavens and made a world where people can live,
instead of creating an empty desert.
The Lord alone is God;
there are no others.

Let me quote you back.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded)

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y)

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become fully human.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Using scripture to prove or as evidence of God is logical fallacy at best; as God is vastly bigger and more complex than the bible; the writings humans decided are "of god" assumes the reader already believes.

Indeed.
To engage a theist in dialog though, we have to play with the theists literal ball.

That is what studying religion is all about. Literalists have just forgotten the Dark Ages that their literalism was responsible for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Using scripture to prove or as evidence of God is logical fallacy at best; as God is vastly bigger and more complex than the bible; the writings humans decided are "of god" assumes the reader already believes.
Um DMP, so you attack me for using the Bible to "prove" aspects of God
but you don't attack GNot-a-Christain when he uses the Bible to try and DISPROVE aspects of God?
sorry I'm confused.
why am i the target here DMP?

But look, you Believe the Bible in some respects. you're a universalist of some stripe so you don't accept others parts.
And GNot-a-Christain does appears to accept parts of the Bible already as well. He just has an upside down view of what's there.

I may be wrong but i believe that GNot-a-Christains in general believe that the God of the Bible is "a god" of some sort.
And Jesus was some type of powerful being.

so no one in the conversation here is an atheist or completely dismisses the scripture.
PLUS there NO WAY to talk about God with any clarity without the Scripture. Even if you don't believe it. it's still true.

You can't talk about George Washington in any detail without a history book. Or you father without contact with him, his family and co-workers TELLING you details about him that you don't know. Some things have to be REVEALED to you by other humans.

Of Course You're free to question their stories but you should have D@mn good reasons, not just "I don't like what i'm hearing" and "they are human" especially if you weren't there.

[revelarts]

Let me quote you back.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded)

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y)

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become fully human.

Regards

DL



Indeed.
To engage a theist in dialog though, we have to play with the theists literal ball.

That is what studying religion is all about. Literalists have just forgotten the Dark Ages that their literalism was responsible for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

Ok which is it DL?

you've this Human Being Alan Watt quoting Jesus from the Bible and using those words as Authoritative in making the point that "all are gods". And in nearly the same breath he says the words of the Bible are not needed because we "have the spirit". (another quote from the Bible BTW)
then you have some guy that says that Jesus is a Myth and rolls on from there.

All these "human beings" you present in these vids and quotes DL, They claim to be authoritative and literally true to the reality of fact and spirituality.
They each want you to believe THEM but not the "Human beings" who penned the Bible.

Do you see the basic problem here? (i'll be pleasantly shocked to get a strait answer to this.)

now maybe you'll say you believe both. Authoritative REALITY & Myth.
Sorry, earlier you claimed you are "rational". So you can't have A=non A here.
Either the words of Jesus in Bible are authoritative or they are just made up stories with no more weight than Little Red Riding Hood.
You don't build your ideas of wolves based on myth but real accounts by those with factual living experience.
Neither should you align you spiritual life with myths.


But since you and DP have told us that human beings are not reliable in general, then there's NO need to consider your words or his and definitely not you gnostic teachers of old as anything more than BS artist and go our way.
If we are being rational that is.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Um DMP, so you attack me for using the Bible to "prove" aspects of God
but you don't attack GNot-a-Christain when he uses the Bible to try and DISPROVE aspects of God?
sorry I'm confused.
why am i the target here DMP?

But look, you Believe the Bible in some respects. you're a universalist of some stripe so you don't accept others parts.
And GNot-a-Christain does appears to accept parts of the Bible already as well. He just has an upside down view of what's there.

I may be wrong but i believe that GNot-a-Christains in general believe that the God of the Bible is "a god" of some sort.
And Jesus was some type of powerful being.

so no one in the conversation here is an atheist or completely dismisses the scripture.
PLUS there NO WAY to talk about God with any clarity without the Scripture. Even if you don't believe it. it's still true.

You can't talk about George Washington in any detail without a history book. Or you father without contact with him, his family and co-workers TELLING you details about him that you don't know. Some things have to be REVEALED to you by other humans.

Of Course You're free to question their stories but you should have D@mn good reasons, not just "I don't like what i'm hearing" and "they are human" especially if you weren't there.

??

Is your bible telling you to not enough for you?

1 Thesalonian 5;21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Like questioning your belief in substitutionary atonement for jut the one instance.

I consider that evil while you consider it good.

That is why your bible tells you to question what you believe.

Being an idol worshiper, you, like most Christian, do not question and only accept thoughtlessly.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ok which is it DL?

you've this Human Being Alan Watt quoting Jesus from the Bible and using those words as Authoritative in making the point that "all are gods". And in nearly the same breath he says the words of the Bible are not needed because we "have the spirit". (another quote from the Bible BTW)
then you have some guy that says that Jesus is a Myth and rolls on from there.

All these "human beings" you present in these vids and quotes DL, They claim to be authoritative and literally true to the reality of fact and spirituality.
They each want you to believe THEM but not the "Human beings" who penned the Bible.

Do you see the basic problem here? (i'll be pleasantly shocked to get a strait answer to this.)

now maybe you'll say you believe both. Authoritative REALITY & Myth.
Sorry, earlier you claimed you are "rational". So you can't have A=non A here.
Either the words of Jesus in Bible are authoritative or they are just made up stories with no more weight than Little Red Riding Hood.
You don't build your ideas of wolves based on myth but real accounts by those with factual living experience.
Neither should you align you spiritual life with myths.


But since you and DP have told us that human beings are not reliable in general, then there's NO need to consider your words or his and definitely not you gnostic teachers of old as anything more than BS artist and go our way.
If we are being rational that is.

How much authority should we give to a book that began with a talking serpent and a God who screwed up his own heaven by not being able to quell rebellion and his own beginning on earth by not being able to get our respect as well?

Some might see that God as a loser.

Regards
DL

[DLT]

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. God is that part of you that is more fully human.


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6729&stc=1


My God is not myself.....not even close. I am a sinner and am therefore, imperfect. Only my God, the only God, is perfect and without sin. And only he can judge me. Nobody else....not even myself. Your illogic is, however, perfect.

[revelarts]

??

Is your bible telling you to not enough for you?

1 Thesalonian 5;21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Like questioning your belief in substitutionary atonement for jut the one instance.

I consider that evil while you consider it good.

That is why your bible tells you to question what you believe.

Being an idol worshiper, you, like most Christian, do not question and only accept thoughtlessly.

Regards
DL

What is telling you that "substitutionary atonement" is evil?
where EXACTLY did you get that idea?

simple question.
please I'd like a simple and direct answer

[darin]

Um DMP, so you attack me for using the Bible to "prove" aspects of God
but you don't attack GNot-a-Christain when he uses the Bible to try and DISPROVE aspects of God?
sorry I'm confused.
why am i the target here DMP?

Before I answer I'm confused a bit - why do you think I attacked you?

I try to not-attack everybody who is reasonable. I think Gnostic presents a lot of goofball "arguments" he pulls from his ass, the bible, or whatever. And I'd agree if asked the Bible can read pretty f'd up if taken out of context.



But look, you Believe the Bible in some respects. you're a universalist of some stripe so you don't accept others parts.
And GNot-a-Christain does appears to accept parts of the Bible already as well. He just has an upside down view of what's there.

I may be wrong but i believe that GNot-a-Christains in general believe that the God of the Bible is "a god" of some sort.
And Jesus was some type of powerful being.



What's a universalist? I'll have to google before responding to that part. I fully accept the bible as this: A collection of books put-together by religious 'politicians' - through discussion and give-and-take - in an effort to 'consolidate power' of sorts within the young Christian Churches. The bible is useful to giving the reader a glimpse of God.



so no one in the conversation here is an atheist or completely dismisses the scripture.
PLUS there NO WAY to talk about God with any clarity without the Scripture. Even if you don't believe it. it's still true.

You can't talk about George Washington in any detail without a history book. Or you father without contact with him, his family and co-workers TELLING you details about him that you don't know. Some things have to be REVEALED to you by other humans.

Of Course You're free to question their stories but you should have D@mn good reasons, not just "I don't like what i'm hearing" and "they are human" especially if you weren't there.

One MUST completely dismiss scripture when scripture is used in an effort to Prove God's existence.

[revelarts]

Before I answer I'm confused a bit - why do you think I attacked you?
I try to not-attack everybody who is reasonable. I think Gnostic presents a lot of goofball "arguments" he pulls from his ass, the bible, or whatever. And I'd agree if asked the Bible can read pretty f'd up if taken out of context.

Attack may be a strong word, But as you say Gnot-a-Chrisitan puts up all kinds of Crazy crap. and you didn't comment on it negatively.
but i quote a few Bible verse and your typing away at me supposedly straitening me out.

and For what?
I wasn't trying to prove God with the Bible.
we all seem to believe in some God or gods already.
Gnot-a-Chrsitian took some Biblical ideas outta context and I was putting them BACK,
and you come in to correct me?
makes no sense DMP.



What's a universalist? I'll have to google before responding to that part. I fully accept the bible as this: A collection of books put-together by religious 'politicians' - through discussion and give-and-take - in an effort to 'consolidate power' of sorts within the young Christian Churches. The bible is useful to giving the reader a glimpse of God.

Ah boy, well I didn't know you were that far gone. DMP. I thought you had a better view of Scripture than that.
and again I'd have to ask you as I did Gnot-a-Chrisitian.
BY what Authority do you get you information about God. you say the Bible only gives you a glimpse.
where do you get a better picture. exactly. don't go melle mouth like Gnot-a-chrsitian.
is it something you READ --from a human--
is it your own ideas ---personal opinion--
what?



One MUST completely dismiss scripture when scripture is used in an effort to Prove God's existence.
Please read read what i wrote and address it so i can understand what you mean. this Assertion is meaningless. Especially if you don't say what you mean by it.
ther are arguments that i could bring to bare without the Bible for God but I get the impression that neither you Or Gnot-a-chrsitian really want to go logically from point A to point B you just want to DENY the Bible and Erect your own "idols" in place of the God of the God, and expect everyone to bow.

[darin]

Attack may be a strong word, Butas you say Gnot-a-Chrisitan puts up all kinds of Crazy crap. and you didn'tcomment on it negatively
but i quote a fewBible verse and your typing away at me supposedly straitening me out.
and For what?
I wasn't trying toprove God with the Bible.
we all seem to believe in some God or gods already.
Gnot-a-Chrsitiantook some Biblical ideas outta context and I was putting them BACK,
and you come in tocorrect me?
makes no senseDMP.


Maybe I simply expect more of you? Calling something a logical Fallacy is not aninsult; it's an observation of an argument that doesn't hold water. I've called everyone out on fallacies as muchas I see them.



Ah boy, well I didn't know you were that far gone. DMP. Ithought you had a better view of Scripture than that.
and again I'd haveto ask you as I did Gnot-a-Chrisitian.
BY what Authority do you get you information about God.you say the Bible only gives you a glimpse.
where do you get abetter picture. exactly. don't go melle mouth like Gnot-a-chrsitian.
is it somethingyou READ --from a human-- is it your own ideas ---personal opinion--
what?



Far gone as in what? I know how the bible was put-together via the council of Nicea. I know "leaders" politicked to gettheir books/scriptures/interpretations sanctioned. As the Christian church formalized it becameless and less like Christ.




Please read read what i wrote and address it so i canunderstand what you mean. this Assertion is meaningless. Especially if youdon't say what you mean by it.
there arearguments that i could bring to bare without the Bible for God but I get theimpression that neither you Or Gnot-a-chrsitian really want to go logicallyfrom point A to point B you just want to DENY the Bible and Erect your own"idols" in place of the God of the God, and expect everyone tobow.

Aren't you reading what I'm writing? I don't deny the Bible as being a revelationabout God - but I also know the bible is a TINY, ity-bity portion of who Godis; and to go to battle to 'defend' the Bible's honour or something? Goofy.

[revelarts]

[COLOR=#000000]Far gone as in what? I know how the bible was put-together via the council of Nicea. I know "leaders" politicked to gettheir books/scriptures/interpretations sanctioned. As the Christian church formalized it becameless and less like Christ.
Um the Canon was agreed on by the early church as early as 200AD. the Old testament of course before that.
Nicea was 125 years later in 325.
there's enough original manuscripts text of those books around at this point that PRE date Nicea (back to 2nd century) that agree with the Bibles you can pick up a Wal-Mart DMP.

whatever fighting and politicking your concerned about has no real bearing on the Bible today.
Now later on in 155X the RC Church add the or canonized the apocrypha. but it was never accepted by the Jews or protestants as ligit.





Aren't you reading what I'm writing? I don't deny the Bible as being a revelationabout God - but I also know the bible is a TINY, ity-bity portion of who Godis; and to go to battle to 'defend' the Bible's honour or something? Goofy.

so you didn't answer my question.
BY what Authority do you get you information about God. you say the Bible only gives you a glimpse. Where do you get a better bigger picture. exactly.
is it something you READ --from a human--
is it your own ideas ---personal opinion--
what?

Are you Just saying God is More than words in a book , of course.
It Just seems like your Saying God is DIFFERENT than protrayed in the Bible.

I'm a simple literally soul please help me understand what you mean.
vagaries like " God is so much Bigger than" and "the Bible gives a Glimpse of" "TINY, ity-bity portion of who God is"
What portions? Where do you get MORE INFO, Better info, Or are you talking about personal experience, what?
please be clear.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6729&stc=1


My God is not myself.....not even close. I am a sinner and am therefore, imperfect. Only my God, the only God, is perfect and without sin. And only he can judge me. Nobody else....not even myself. Your illogic is, however, perfect.

You just want the bible God to judge you because you think you can bribe him.

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

What is telling you that "substitutionary atonement" is evil?
where EXACTLY did you get that idea?

simple question.
please I'd like a simple and direct answer

From your bible and what Jesus taught.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

[Gunny]

From your bible and what Jesus taught.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL


Is your faith waning again, gnostic? If NT can't help you, I can get you a number or two. No soul is not worthy of redemption. God is waiting for you to come back to the fold.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is your faith waning again, gnostic? If NT can't help you, I can get you a number or two. No soul is not worthy of redemption. God is waiting for you to come back to the fold.

Redemption from what? Your genocidal son murdering prick of a God?

Do you really think your God a fit judge to say who need condemnation or redemption?
After all, his first judgment was corrupted by his setting and accepting a bribe.


Is God a just judge?



This speaks of Jesus.

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.



The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.



Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.



God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.



If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?



Is God a just judge?



Regards

DL

[revelarts]

What is telling you that "substitutionary atonement" is evil?
where EXACTLY did you get that idea?From your bible and what Jesus taught.

Here's the problem I mentioned before.
you claim on one hand to believe/agree with 1 part of the Bible
then you turn do an about face and completely deny other parts.

as if you at a buffet.

It's very convenient if your trying to cobble together an idea of God that you LIKE.
but it's not a very honest way to handle religious text of any kind.





Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.
Ok here I assume you think a REAL person Named Jesus said and did the above.
Then you ASSERT I've mis-read that one verse and you know better. How do you know.
Then you question my morality and manhood. For doing what jesus and the apostles told us to do.
John1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

DL it's not a sign of unmanliness to ask for help when you really need it.
If you cannot pay your dues and If someone offers to pay it for you, It's not manly to reject it. and its not Immoral to accept it.

It's a gift, you say thanks.




Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

well here again this line applies
John1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

As the final the Lamb he has the power to do what we cannot.
Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!




The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
SO Thomas Paine is MORE authoritative than Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul etc and we should follow the moral standard HE made up. (which BTW borrowed from the fumes of Church Theology and has ZERO to hang on to philosophically to make it compelling apon anyone)

Well that aside. you're saying it's morally wrong to allow someone to pay the penalty/punishment/price for someone elses crime or weakness?
Is it Morally wrong for a mother to give her organ to a daughter even it it means she'll die?
Is it morally wrong for a rich Father to give up all of his biz to ransom a waward son?
Maybe in you mind. But many people understand that to be a loving act.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.



As above so below.
And where do you get that idea. Please don't tell me where I might find it in the Bible. It's not Given the spin or emphaias you put on it. Please be honest if you can, what text or teaching makes this line so foundational for you?




If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible? Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?
That is what a good God would do.
I think I've pointed out that it does not go against the wisdom of Jesus.
And Jesus did step up and act as the sacrifice for you and I, just as a good God did do.
And he will still will take us both in even though we question his person, motives and actions.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why do you ask me to get something from your bible when you rejected all that I gave you on what Jesus said and thought?

You reject it just so you can profit from God having his son needlessly murdered just for you an your ilk.

While ignoring that he condemned you in the first place. Just to turn around and stupidly die for you.
And you think this ridiculous story is what adult will swallow.

:lame2:

Ignore all the immorality you have to show to save your condemned soul.
Satan will like that.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Why do you ask me to get something from your bible when you rejected all that I gave you on what Jesus said and thought?


So again I get no strait answer to any questions i asked.
I'll ask a last one here.
when did i ask you to give me an answer from the Bible above? (not below)
You volunteered that answer AS YOUR OWN.
Now you say the WHOLE bible is Immoral for condemning us. And call Jesus who you quoted before as your reasons 'stupid'.

DL, your mixed up man.
i say that in kindness,
If you could answer ANY of my questions honestly and strait forwardly from YOUR REAL POV rather than trying to use the Bible as tool to show me i'm right and wrong. we might have a real conversation. Since you seem to want to dodge and twist one verse then turn and D@mn the whole Bible, Jesus and God. what is there to say?
you don't want a dialogue you just want to make BS assertions.


"God is Immoral..."
"I am God..."
"God's words are evil..."
"redemption is evil not good"
"Gnostic Christian becomes a brethren of Jesus..."
"Jesus is a Myth..."
"I believe in Jesus word's..."
"Jesus is stupid..."
"The serpent was a light bringer..."
"the serpent is a child's Myth"
"Jesus said as above so below don't you believe that hmm?"
"it's a child's idea..."
"If you had God's Powers..."
"You are God..."

What kind of mealy mouthed BS is that DL, please tell me.
Does that make any sense at all?

I'm Happy to talk if you take ONE side but you can't take BOTH.
If you REALLY HATE the Bible and Jesus fine say so,
and tell me your Alternative text, and sources and we can debate it.
But please don't pull one or 2 verses out that you think i'd understand your way and try to beat me with them if you don't believe the source yourself. it's kinda dishonest.
If you DO believe In Jesus, in some idiosyncratic form BE CLEAR and tell me why and what about Jesus you do believe. was he a real person yes or no son of God yes or no etc

I'm hoping for an honest reply but i suspect you'll take us around snake mountain again with more mealy mouthed out of context verses and wild assertions that you claim are based in "reason" and "morals" you have no authority for yet make you god.
But prove me wrong DL

peace

[darin]

Um the Canon was agreed on by the early church as early as 200AD. the Old testament of course before that.
Nicea was 125 years later in 325.
there's enough original manuscripts text of those books around at this point that PRE date Nicea (back to 2nd century) that agree with the Bibles you can pick up a Wal-Mart DMP.

whatever fighting and politicking your concerned about has no real bearing on the Bible today.
Now later on in 155X the RC Church add the or canonized the apocrypha. but it was never accepted by the Jews or protestants as ligit.


It was the Council that started the Bible-worship that corrupted The Church. And the politicking has everything to do with the Bible today because those politicians decided what is in our bible.




so you didn't answer my question.
BY what Authority do you get you information about God. you say the Bible only gives you a glimpse. Where do you get a better bigger picture. exactly.
is it something you READ --from a human--
is it your own ideas ---personal opinion--
what?



What makes you think I have a bigger picture of God than whats in the bible? If you think the Bible explains who God is 100% then you aren't reading the Bible enough. The BIBLE tells us God is bigger than scripture. Have you read it?




Are you Just saying God is More than words in a book , of course.
It Just seems like your Saying God is DIFFERENT than protrayed in the Bible.

I'm a simple literally soul please help me understand what you mean.
vagaries like " God is so much Bigger than" and "the Bible gives a Glimpse of" "TINY, ity-bity portion of who God is"
What portions? Where do you get MORE INFO, Better info, Or are you talking about personal experience, what?
please be clear.

I am saying God is different than portrayed in the bible; absolutely. Based on scripture, and based on common sense, there's no way Scripture can contain everything that IS God.

You want more info on God - Search God. Read what you want but understand what you read and seek deeper connection than sometimes horrible accounts of God written in teh bible.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So again I get no strait answer to any questions i asked.
I'll ask a last one here.
when did i ask you to give me an answer from the Bible above? (not below)
You volunteered that answer AS YOUR OWN.
Now you say the WHOLE bible is Immoral for condemning us. And call Jesus who you quoted before as your reasons 'stupid'.

DL, your mixed up man.
i say that in kindness,
If you could answer ANY of my questions honestly and strait forwardly from YOUR REAL POV rather than trying to use the Bible as tool to show me i'm right and wrong. we might have a real conversation. Since you seem to want to dodge and twist one verse then turn and D@mn the whole Bible, Jesus and God. what is there to say?
you don't want a dialogue you just want to make BS assertions.


"God is Immoral..."
"I am God..."
"God's words are evil..."
"redemption is evil not good"
"Gnostic Christian becomes a brethren of Jesus..."
"Jesus is a Myth..."
"I believe in Jesus word's..."
"Jesus is stupid..."
"The serpent was a light bringer..."
"the serpent is a child's Myth"
"Jesus said as above so below don't you believe that hmm?"
"it's a child's idea..."
"If you had God's Powers..."
"You are God..."

What kind of mealy mouthed BS is that DL, please tell me.
Does that make any sense at all?

I'm Happy to talk if you take ONE side but you can't take BOTH.
If you REALLY HATE the Bible and Jesus fine say so,
and tell me your Alternative text, and sources and we can debate it.
But please don't pull one or 2 verses out that you think i'd understand your way and try to beat me with them if you don't believe the source yourself. it's kinda dishonest.
If you DO believe In Jesus, in some idiosyncratic form BE CLEAR and tell me why and what about Jesus you do believe. was he a real person yes or no son of God yes or no etc

I'm hoping for an honest reply but i suspect you'll take us around snake mountain again with more mealy mouthed out of context verses and wild assertions that you claim are based in "reason" and "morals" you have no authority for yet make you god.
But prove me wrong DL

peace

You asked. I gave. You rejected and wanted more. Bite me.

Your attitude an poor morals are what is in our way.
Substitutionary atonement is immoral an you want to drink from that cup instead of manning up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.



Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Well It time to ramble a bit.

revelarts:
"What is telling you that "substitutionary atonement" is evil?
where EXACTLY did you get that idea?"

GnosticChristianDL:
"From your bible and what Jesus taught...."

DL,
elsewhere this what you've said about what Jesus taught
"....it's insane.... you are to base a moral theology on what talking donkeys and water walking God/Man say...."
...I am not fond of his (Jesus's) morals though. Especially if one ties him to the genocidal on murderer of the O.T. via the Trinity. Jesus's divorce law is anti-love....

You've been more strait forward elsewhere concerning your near complete abhorrence/rejection of basically all of Christian doctrine, God, the Bible and any bible based idea of Jesus.


GnosticChristianDL[/I]]...Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement. ....
....God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.
If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?...
..."'The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction:' ....
....Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish....
...God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his betters. Mankind....
....all biblical characters are mythical archetypes.....


And you won't explain how you REALLY come by your Idea that
"....all biblical characters are mythical archetypes....."

Or how you and your teachers get to define those REAL meanings.
On what grounds, who says?
Also you've redefine good and evil, and will not allow any other interpretations.
"Competition is Evil" you've said. (so did nelson Rockefeller BTW, He set up a monopoly).
With that definition you go on to proclaim evil as necessary and not "bad" overall.
But then complain in every 4th post about how evil you think God is.


Below (and not above) you say there is a moral option (in your opinion) for God other than the sacrifice of Jesus that suits you.

....The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass....
Here you set up a false dichotomy.
Peter and the rest of the new testament never says it's preference for either or. It's BOTH
Peter all through in the same book calls Jesus Savior and that we should not forget that we were cleansed from our "passed sins" by Jesus.

It's dishonest to try to make the Bible say what it doesn't DL.
Then Spew bile on other parts you often take out of context as well.

DL, If you want to say, 'I like to think the Bible in saying XYZ means thus and so'.
Fine, but please don't assert that it's REALLY Saying what it clearly is not.
It's Exactly what the serpent in the Garden -that you love to talk about- did.
"did God Say?"
it's deceptive. Dishonest.

like a child who twist the parents words to get what they want.
Daddy said lay down in bed.... but not go to sleep.
worse really because you get a full clear instructions and completely ignore, dispute and HATE parts of it but try to claim parts as your own.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Your post is too disjointed so I will deal with one issue at a time by whatever priority you decide.

I will give you this in reply to where I get the notion that all biblical character are archetypes.


"There is no generation without its Abraham, Moses or Samuel,’ says the Midrash; i.e. each age is capable of realizing the highest potentialities of the moral and spiritual life."

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Tell me what you think of this and then I will deal with the next issue that is on your mind. Try to phrase it as a question.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Your post is too disjointed so I will deal with one issue at a time by whatever priority you decide.

I will give you this in reply to where I get the notion that all biblical character are archetypes.


"There is no generation without its Abraham, Moses or Samuel,’ says the Midrash; i.e. each age is capable of realizing the highest potentialities of the moral and spiritual life."

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Tell me what you think of this and then I will deal with the next issue that is on your mind. Try to phrase it as a question.

Regards
DL

Sigh ,
So now you quote the "Midrash" as where you get what you Believe here.:rolleyes:
the same Midrash that exalts, praises and worships the God of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David as the ONLY true God?

I say you're full of Crap DL.
you don't agree with the Jews who wrote the Midrash. period.

Look I could find places in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Vedas, the book of Mormon, the Egyptian book of the dead, Tao Te Ching and the collected works of dr Suess
that i agree with, but i would be dishonest in saying they are THE MAIN source for my beliefs.
All I'm asking 1st off is that you be honest about what sources you consider spiritually authoritative on the whole. Not those where you can find a line or 2 that fits your thinking.
It's obviously NOT the Bible or the Torah/Midrash or Jesus or "the church" or Luther. You've attacked and dismissed them all viciously.

Look, If your REAL sources are nothing but your own patchwork juices, FINE.
At least I'll know I''m talking to a real person.
Not someone who's just trying weasel Biblical text around in a weird attempt to convince me that the text is basically wrong.

But you're not an orthodox Jew DL. or a Conservative or even a moderate Jew. Don't toss out the midrash and 1 pov of a certain group of Jews as THE source for you beliefs, it's not.

Can you Be HONEST? is that part of the Gnostic belief system or not?
Or are you taught to play games with other people's text and never tell them where's your ideas are based?

[BoogyMan]

This has to be the biggest load of idiotic word-soup stupidity I have ever read.





Why, believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God.

Because that God is you. Instinctively speaking.

Our hiving or groupish natures and desire for friendship and fellowship lead us and statistics are showing how well our selfishness is working in terms of rapprochement for each of us to the whole world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0)

This tribalism is both a blessing and a curse. The hive/you, seeks to unite with the other hives, --- is everyone's basic hive mind's number one desire. This is your base driving force for survival.

We desire one God and human master above all other desires. We all crave a monotheistic world while wanting that God to be ourselves. We call that freedom. We are all in this together while all wishing to stand alone and above. Some call this our selfish gene and without it we would go extinct.

Note the wisdom of the first few self-centred commandments. Like that God, we are all quite self-centered. Not near as barbaric as the bible God in most cases though, --- and our recognition of duty sends that self-centeredness to duty and love, --- when it turns outwardly or towards others.

If I was to define God as, --- ( just the best set of rules to live life by ), --- then the statement, --- believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God, --- becomes truth.

That God, --- described as rules and laws, --- is what believers seek.

Non-believers seek the same thing, but with an ideal that is a human leader (s), and not a supernatural being.

It seems that our natural selfishness turned duty is serving us well as a species if the trends are real. Remember to continue to seek an ideal in rules and laws.

If you have found God, you are an idol worshiper. Your bible or holy book condemns such an action.

As said in Candid, we are in the best of all possible worlds, because this is the only possible world. The world evolves and our political Gods as well as our religious Gods and masters must also all evolve.

We all seek a Monotheistic God and we all want him or her to be us. We do look outwardly though for the role model, --- and that is what makes the search worthy. It is what makes us more fully human.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded)

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y)

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. God is that part of you that is more fully human.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Sigh ,
So now you quote the "Midrash" as where you get what you Believe here.:rolleyes:
the same Midrash that exalts, praises and worships the God of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David as the ONLY true God?

Do you think there s only one our of wisdom?

Christianity usurped the Jewish God so they must have seen some wisdom in him.

Remember as well that they are not as ignorant of spiritual maters as literalist readers.


I say you're full of Crap DL.
you don't agree with the Jews who wrote the Midrash. period.


Agree with what exactly? I like some of their idea while some are garbage.



Look I could find places in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Vedas, the book of Mormon, the Egyptian book of the dead, Tao Te Ching and the collected works of dr Suess
that i agree with, but i would be dishonest in saying they are THE MAIN source for my beliefs.
All I'm asking 1st off is that you be honest about what sources you consider spiritually authoritative on the whole. Not those where you can find a line or 2 that fits your thinking.

I hold no source as spiritually authoritative. All scripture are based on myths and not on reality.

To give any scripture of God authority is to idol worship the God they speak of.


It's obviously NOT the Bible or the Torah/Midrash or Jesus or "the church" or Luther. You've attacked and dismissed them all viciously.

Look, If your REAL sources are nothing but your own patchwork juices, FINE.
At least I'll know I''m talking to a real person.
Not someone who's just trying weasel Biblical text around in a weird attempt to convince me that the text is basically wrong.


See above.


But you're not an orthodox Jew DL. or a Conservative or even a moderate Jew. Don't toss out the midrash and 1 pov of a certain group of Jews as THE source for you beliefs, it's not.

Correct.



Can you Be HONEST? is that part of the Gnostic belief system or not?
Or are you taught to play games with other people's text and never tell them where's your ideas are based?

I am always honest. Christians could b as well if they had a theology that was not based on lies and human sacrifice.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

ok I've asked you about 3 times now the sources of your beliefs and what you reply is how bad you think a straw man version of Christianity is. that's not an answer DL.
So im left to guess that your sources must be PISS POOR crappola if you're afraid to name them outright.
or maybe you're just making up your own version of religion stew out of a mismash of religions-n-philosophies.
or your real sources are only for those that give the secret handshake to get the real "secret knowledge".



...I hold no source as spiritually authoritative. All scripture are based on myths and not on reality...
Regards
DL
I guess that's the best you can do for a strait answer.
ok
Then why would you quote the Torah or the Midrash or Jesus when i ask you where you get your ideas on reality DL?
As i said you've been dishonest.

the fact that you agree with some small portions even though on the WHOLE you think they are myths and evil doesn't strengthen your position. Every time you quote one of these so-called "myths" as the source of your beliefs you undermine your own arguments.
As well as your integrity.

All you have done so far is quote select bits of the Bible, Jesus, Alan watt, some random atheists, and make harsh assertions to establish Gnosticism as true "knowledge" .... reality.
But since you seem to consider no book or human as authoritative and (i must assume) just make up your own morals and ideas. I'm not sure why i or anyone else should listen to you either DL.

wouldn't want your words to become an "idol" or anything... that'd be bad.

[fj1200]

Why, believer or not, you seek a Monotheistic God.

Because that God is you. Instinctively speaking.

I dispute your premise; I am not God. Nevertheless someone, believer or not, would seek one God because that is one God by which to seek favor and not have to seek favor among many.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I dispute your premise; I am not God. Nevertheless someone, believer or not, would seek one God because that is one God by which to seek favor and not have to seek favor among many.

You are not the God defined by scriptures but you are a God if described as I did in the O.P.

You have an internal set of morals and that is the God within you. If you have written the laws of God in your heart as Jesus puts it. If not then you have yet to grow up mentally.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

ok I've asked you about 3 times now the sources of your beliefs and what you reply is how bad you think a straw man version of Christianity is. that's not an answer DL.
So im left to guess that your sources must be PISS POOR crappola if you're afraid to name them outright.
or maybe you're just making up your own version of religion stew out of a mismash of religions-n-philosophies.
or your real sources are only for those that give the secret handshake to get the real "secret knowledge".


I guess that's the best you can do for a strait answer.
ok
Then why would you quote the Torah or the Midrash or Jesus when i ask you where you get your ideas on reality DL?
As i said you've been dishonest.

the fact that you agree with some small portions even though on the WHOLE you think they are myths and evil doesn't strengthen your position. Every time you quote one of these so-called "myths" as the source of your beliefs you undermine your own arguments.
As well as your integrity.

All you have done so far is quote select bits of the Bible, Jesus, Alan watt, some random atheists, and make harsh assertions to establish Gnosticism as true "knowledge" .... reality.
But since you seem to consider no book or human as authoritative and (i must assume) just make up your own morals and ideas. I'm not sure why i or anyone else should listen to you either DL.

wouldn't want your words to become an "idol" or anything... that'd be bad.

Everything I believe has many sources you would have to specify every item. So stop being so stupid in asking a question that
cannot be answered.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

You are not the God defined by scriptures but you are a God if described as I did in the O.P.

You have an internal set of morals and that is the God within you. If you have written the laws of God in your heart as Jesus puts it. If not then you have yet to grow up mentally.

Regards
DL

Hey Buddy, how are you today?

Let me ask you a question. Have you read the Quran yet?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Yes. Many years ago now.

Why would you care when there are so few Muslims here?

Or are you going to say that Christianity is better because it is not quite as vile as Islam?

Now that is a great claim to fame.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

Everything I believe has many sources you would have to specify every item.
So stop being so stupid in asking a question that
cannot be answered.

Regards
DL
will not be answered.

I asked for your source on ONE issue.
and you gave me a 2 sources... that you elsewhere say are MYTHS.

you've got the problem DL.


"What is telling you that "substitutionary atonement" is evil?
where EXACTLY did you get that idea?"
GnosticChristianDL:
"From your bible and what Jesus taught...."

It's a VERY simple question.
Someone as brilliant as yourself should have no trouble at all layout out your NON-Mythical sources for the reality of this and your other beliefs.

But every time you quote what you call a myth to make your points it losses any weight.
It's not based in reality. (you can't have it both ways Jesus's words are a myth and idols and authoritative too)
So please o enlightened one let us know the way here. WITHOUT USING MYTHS.

lets try a different question.
You say we are "gods".
How do you come by that ONE idea?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

will not be answered.

I asked for your source on ONE issue.
and you gave me a 2 sources... that you elsewhere say are MYTHS.

you've got the problem DL.



It's a VERY simple question.
Someone as brilliant as yourself should have no trouble at all layout out your NON-Mythical sources for the reality of this and your other beliefs.

But every time you quote what you call a myth to make your points it losses any weight.
It's not based in reality. (you can't have it both ways Jesus's words are a myth and idols and authoritative too)
So please o enlightened one let us know the way here. WITHOUT USING MYTHS.

lets try a different question.
You say we are "gods".
How do you come by that ONE idea?

If you want it based on reality, I already gave you this quote, if I recall correctly.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

I also offer common sense and our own justice system that says we should punish the guilty instead of the innocent.

Show your non-biblical source that shows an argument in favor of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Reciprocity is fair play.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Yes. Many years ago now.

Why would you care when there are so few Muslims here?

Or are you going to say that Christianity is better because it is not quite as vile as Islam?

Now that is a great claim to fame.

Regards
DL

Wow, are you trying to read my mind? LOL

What does the population here have to do with beliefs, and text of a book? I said nothing about either religion, actually. I asked an extremely simple question. Extremely simple. You're reading too much into what I asked, my good friend. I only asked to further our conversation. And I believe we do have a few Muslims here, but they don't get involved in the religious threads really. Nonetheless, I'm simply curious on your thoughts, looking at things side by side. While obviously not the same religion, there is a God, there is text, there is Muhammed, there are commands.... If it's about "God", and the texts and such, and what believers do, and why, I'm curious why you only discuss Christianity? It doesn't seem like you are only a non-believer, but also a "hater" of some sort. Did someone bite you in a church once? And why not any negativity towards other religions? But please do expand on your thoughts of Islam and the Quran before going into your issues with Christianity and lack of obsession elsewhere...

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Deflection ignored.

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

If you want it based on reality, I already gave you this quote, if I recall correctly.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

I also offer common sense and our own justice system that says we should punish the guilty instead of the innocent.

Show your non-biblical source that shows an argument in favor of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Reciprocity is fair play.

Regards
DL


A father stepping up to pay a fine for a son who cannot.

[jimnyc]

Deflection ignored.

Regards
DL

In other words, you can't answer. We all know you're nothing more than a Christian hating troll. Your inability to spell while you rush to call another unintelligent shows what happens when you do anything outside your comfort zone. What happened up there in your noggin to cause this obsession? Seriously, forced religion when you were younger? Were you an alter boy once? Perhaps a disgruntled priest?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

A father stepping up to pay a fine for a son who cannot.

The father sent the son and did not step up himself.

We are not talking fines. We are talking of taking a human life but I see you have a price tag on humans. How much are we worth?

Why can the son not do it for himself, as scriptures say he can, and why did the father put that defect that you claim we have in him?

Regards
DL

[revelarts]

If you want it based on reality, I already gave you this quote, if I recall correctly.
The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
I also offer common sense and our own justice system that says we should punish the guilty instead of the innocent.
Show your non-biblical source that shows an argument in favor of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.
Reciprocity is fair play.
Regards
DL


But just to be clear are you saying that IF we can find ANY source to back up our opinions that makes them valid?
or are you saying that morals are basically universal?

a bit of both?

Becasue I can find ... what I'd consider ... some very IMMORAL sources that will claim they are IN FACT moral.
for example, Social Darwinist thought/think that it's moral for the strong to rule over/kill the weak.
Some people would agree with that "instinctively" and of course "instinctively" they are part of the stronger race or groups. And could "reasonably" defend their views with various text and experments and examples.

[revelarts]

The father sent the son and did not step up himself.

We are not talking fines. We are talking of taking a human life but I see you have a price tag on humans. How much are we worth?

Why can the son not do it for himself, as scriptures say he can, and why did the father put that defect that you claim we have in him?

Regards
DL

the father who is the son.
Steps up. Debt canceled.

Here's an imperfect human anology
A king convicts a man to death for a crime. then the king steps down off of the throne to announces that he is the Father of the criminal and will take the punishment instead. The kings word is law.



now you ask a question about Human worth.
not an easy calculation. more than animals, more than things, less than God.

I've clearly responded to several of your questions now.
are you going to give me the source of your assertions that YOU are a god?

[fj1200]

You are not the God defined by scriptures but you are a God if described as I did in the O.P.

You have an internal set of morals and that is the God within you. If you have written the laws of God in your heart as Jesus puts it. If not then you have yet to grow up mentally.

As I said I dispute your premise. Nevertheless I suggested why one would seek a monotheistic God and nowhere did I mention Jesus.

[revelarts]

As I said I dispute your premise. Nevertheless I suggested why one would seek a monotheistic God and nowhere did I mention Jesus.

Yes his premise is flawed.
and it doesn't mean logically you have to get the answer he comes to.

If the question is why do humans all look for a monolithic God.
then the answer could very well be because there IS a monolithic God outside of ourselves.

in fact that's a MORE likely answer.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

But just to be clear are you saying that IF we can find ANY source to back up our opinions that makes them valid?
or are you saying that morals are basically universal?

a bit of both?

Becasue I can find ... what I'd consider ... some very IMMORAL sources that will claim they are IN FACT moral.
for example, Social Darwinist thought/think that it's moral for the strong to rule over/kill the weak.
Some people would agree with that "instinctively" and of course "instinctively" they are part of the stronger race or groups. And could "reasonably" defend their views with various text and experments and examples.

You forgot to reciprocate. Do so and we can continue.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

the father who is the son.
Steps up. Debt canceled.

Here's an imperfect human anology
A king convicts a man to death for a crime. then the king steps down off of the throne to announces that he is the Father of the criminal and will take the punishment instead. The kings word is law.



now you ask a question about Human worth.
not an easy calculation. more than animals, more than things, less than God.

I've clearly responded to several of your questions now.
are you going to give me the source of your assertions that YOU are a god?

Right here. If you believe Jess was God.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I am a brethren to Jesus. Are you?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

As I said I dispute your premise. Nevertheless I suggested why one would seek a monotheistic God and nowhere did I mention Jesus.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

[fj1200]

Thanks for this.

You're welcome.

:dunno:

[revelarts]

Right here. If you believe Jess was God.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I am a brethren to Jesus. Are you?
Regards, DL

Sheesh,
OK so now you are "brethren" to Jesus. Someone you've called immoral, stupid and evil?
DL you're full of crap.
you've said the scripture is myth so TO YOU (if your consistent) the kingdom of God talk is myth, withen or without. The father is an evil immoral tyrant, and predestination is stupid because if YOU were god you'd do it different.

DL how do you keep you head with the double think going on. Or are you Just trying to convince ME of something?
you said earlier that "your always honest"

If so then are you saying that Jesus is my brother and the kingdom of the evil god is withen me, and i'm the immoral god's stupid son's brother.

C'mon DL be HONEST be Consistent , be logical to YOUR beliefs. I'm pretty clear on mine.

But here again you're trying to define MY faith by selective portions of what you consider myth anyway.
Look here's one verse for you that I believe.
from the 1st chapter of John
"In the beginning was the word and the word was God... and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

DL, you clearly understand and reject the Idea of the "God man" . I quoted you earlier doing so.
But scripture makes it fairly clear, It's not and Either OR, 'is he God or is he Man?', 'is he my LORD God or is he my Brother?' 'Is he the Son or ONE with the Father?'.
The answer is Yes.

If you take the accounts seriously that is. If not , of course your free to make up whatever version of Jesus you like, using a buffet style of picking discarding scriptures you prefer.

So, moving forward, I'm still waiting for a clear answer to my questions.
I've answered you DIRECTLY and honestly.
in post #41 and your follow up to same in #45, and answered your human worth question and now i've addressed your follow up to the follow up HERE.
the Scripture teaches Jesus is God.

As far as reciprocity is concerned, it's has been overfilled and you are in my debt.
I've yet to get ONE source from you on your beliefs other than THOMAS PAINE!

Or and answer to my follow questions. in post #44 and

If you want it based on reality, I already gave you this quote, if I recall correctly.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
I also offer common sense and our own justice system that says we should punish the guilty instead of the innocent.
Show your non-biblical source that shows an argument in favor of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.
Reciprocity is fair play.
Regards DL


But just to be clear are you saying that IF we can find ANY source to back up our opinions that makes them valid?
or are you saying that morals are basically universal?

a bit of both?
Because I can find ... what I'd consider ... some very IMMORAL sources that will claim they are IN FACT moral.
for example, Social Darwinist thought/think that it's moral for the strong to rule over/kill the weak.
Some people would agree with that "instinctively" and of course "instinctively" they are part of the stronger race or groups. And could "reasonably" defend their views with various text and experiments and examples.

And then there's my main question still left unanswered from post #37, which directly touches on the thread topic


...lets try a different question.
You say we are "gods".
How do you come by that ONE idea?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Thanks for this.

I do not have time to rephrase all the garbage you have put in my mouth.

I do not suffer liars well.

I think we are done here after your closing insult. Have at it.

Regards
DL

[jimnyc]

Thanks for this.

I do not have time to rephrase all the garbage you have put in my mouth.

I do not suffer liars well.

I think we are done here after your closing insult. Have at it.

Regards
DL

Where is this closing insult that is so bad you now have to bail? Methinks it's more likely that Revelarts bombarded you with enough facts and opinions that you cannot refute, so you make up an excuse so you don't have to respond. I've seen you do this before as well. You suck.

"Reads",
Me

[revelarts]

Thanks for this.

I do not have time to rephrase all the garbage you have put in my mouth.

I do not suffer liars well.

I think we are done here after your closing insult. Have at it.

Regards
DL
Closing insult? i closed with a question.

But DL here are quotes All Directly from your various post.


...Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement. ....
....God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.
If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?...
..."'The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction:' ....
....Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish....
...God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his betters. Mankind....
....all biblical characters are mythical archetypes.....
...I am not fond of his (Jesus's) morals though. Especially if one ties him to the genocidal on murderer of the O.T. via the Trinity.
Jesus's divorce law is anti-love...
...If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible...
...That is what a good God would do....
...God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice....
...his method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus...
....When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. God is that part of you that is more fully human....
...Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths....
...Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil....
...Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man....
...and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?...
...When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood? If and when you say yes, you become his....
...Christians have an insane view of love, IMO....
...Your cowardly God...
...You also forget that the bible can be made to say almost anything....
...We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times....
...I too recognize the perfection of creation. Most do not. How is it that you do not see that same perfection in man as I do? Does God power to create perfection somehow stop at man?...
....The mental health of people is the more important issue and having all kinds of weird beliefs based on fantasy, miracles and magic is just insane. Especially if you are to base a moral theology on what talking donkeys and water walking God/Man say...

also i found this one
"Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods. "

As I thought, you see not only the Bible as a place to PICK and CHOOSE text that you like/agree with.
But all others religious text as part of the buffet table as well.
PLUS you somehow ASSUME you know the "ESOTERIC" hidden meaning of all the text you LIKE.

But that's funny you said in one place
"...You also forget that the bible can be made to say almost anything...."
Yet it seems to me that your "Gnostic Christianity" is BASED on doing exactly that.

DL, nothing i've said is a lie, I've simply pointed out your contradictions and asked you several questions for clarification.
And BTW you've yet to reciprocate. That seemed important to you, since you insisted that i do so.
But here's what i'll do.

I forgive your debt.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

When you wish to chat and not just trap, I am here for you.

Regards
DL

[fj1200]

When you wish to chat and not just trap, I am here for you.

Pot... kettle...

[jimnyc]

When you wish to chat and not just trap, I am here for you.

Regards
DL

Your trolling is not going so well, getting your ass handed to you in every thread you start. Personally, I see you as a useless troll, and I advise people to just ignore you, but some want to reply anyway, and that's their right. But you're as transparent as the Obama administration. Dropping your crap all over until you are called on it, then you find excuses to avoid answering or go silent.

http://i.imgur.com/oGmynKb.jpg

[revelarts]

When you wish to chat and not just trap, I am here for you.

Regards
DL

I've asked you several times, if you would give some clear and direct answers to questions.
You've given few.

I'd like a real conversation.
Not some of what you've done so far which comes across to me LIKE this.

The Bible is myth... God is immoral... Jesus said xyz... you should believe it with the meaning i give it... if not your stupid, immoral and unenlightened.

the combo of your post sound like that to me. Am i misrepresenting your views?

I've asked several times now how do you come to believe that your interpretations are true? your sources.
I'm not sure why you think people should take the assertions you post in thread titles at face value.
You act like it's a forgone conclusion that we should chuck all of the Bible except those portions you like.
That we should not understand the Bible in the way we understand any other book. And accept morals and good and evil as you define them.

i ask you WHY?

And a pre-canned sets of quotes is not real conversation,
a youtube post of someone else's esoteric assertions is not real conversation.
And claiming carefully selected quotes from Jesus as true, while outrightly rejecting others as untrue and immoral I can't take seriously.

[jimnyc]

Redemption from what? Your genocidal son murdering prick of a God?

Coming from an illiterate who can't seem to figure out how to post properly? One who runs like a Kenyan in a marathon when asked to backup his made up bullshit? One who claims to be so smart but can't seem to grasp much beyond the 3rd grade level of spelling - and I can only assume at this point that this is why you copy and paste so much. You spam your crap all over the place and it carries over your stupid attributes. Just this retarded thread alone has been posted at 8 other websites, and that's on the 1st page of Google results, I'm too lazy to search further.

I'm trying to figure out a good name to call someone who races to many boards in the internet to try and rile up people he disagrees with. Stupid would fit nicely, but I think also too obvious.