Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?


At present, governments control the law of the land and church policy to a large extent. Should the law of the land be God’s law?

Separation of church and state, to my way of thinking, is impossible. To think that an elected official who adheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the houses of government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous. Social, cultural and traditional conditioning that people live under cannot just be set aside in one’s mind. Further a representative must represent his constituents and in the U.S. they will be religious constituents who wish to be represented as religious and not necessarily secular.

Christians and other religious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny. Timocratic in the sense that God rules for love, honor and duty. Tyrannical in the sense that any who break any of the laws, large or small, are swiftly dealt with. The non-religious seek more of a democratic nation where they make the rules and not God. As a Gnostic Christian, I admit to being secular and have no love of the laws the Gods offer.

At present, we all live in Oligarchic countries. Some of these we call democratic, some communistic and others of various labels but at the end of the day, all of us live in Oligarchies. We are all owned and controlled by those with wealth and bought political power.

If I focus on the U.S., I do not see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, to not be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance here on earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven.

This goes against the notion of as above so below, or as Christians say, on earth as it is in heaven.

For Christians to end this governance conflict, --- they cannot have their cake and eat it too, ---Americans would have to bring God’s law to earth and scrap the notions of democracy and vote for a Timocratic Tyranny like what God has in heaven.

To accomplish the Christian goal of God’s law on earth as it is in heaven, the Christian right would have to gain power and end democracy in the U.S.

I would ask those Christians on the religious and political right, are you ready to try to dismantle the Oligarchy you presently live under, --- end the farce of democracy, --- and install God’s Timocratic Tyranny?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

[tailfins]

Should God govern governments? In a word: Yes.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Should God govern governments? In a word: Yes.

Why?

Do you think God a moral God even when, to some, he does not seem so?

For instance, God is shown in scripture as torturing a baby for six days before finally killing it, all because he was angry with King David.

Was that a moral thing to do?

Regards
DL

[gabosaurus]

Should God govern governments? In a word: Yes.

Are you advocating a state religion? There are religious governments in our world. You should be aware who they are.

"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's."

[Drummond]

Should God govern governments? In a word: Yes.

What's worrying about that is that this is exactly what the most 'radical' (.. as our media insists on referring to them) Islamists would THEMSELVES say. I've seen the terrorist-supporting likes of Anjem Choudary say that man-made laws are subservient to God's laws. It's how he, and everyone like him, sees Caliphates as functioning.

To me, the point is that laws in both the UK and in the US are based on Christian values ('thou shalt not steal', etc ...).

[DragonStryk72]

Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?


At present, governments control the law of the land and church policy to a large extent. Should the law of the land be God’s law?

Separation of church and state, to my way of thinking, is impossible. To think that an elected official who adheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the houses of government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous. Social, cultural and traditional conditioning that people live under cannot just be set aside in one’s mind. Further a representative must represent his constituents and in the U.S. they will be religious constituents who wish to be represented as religious and not necessarily secular.

Christians and other religious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny. Timocratic in the sense that God rules for love, honor and duty. Tyrannical in the sense that any who break any of the laws, large or small, are swiftly dealt with. The non-religious seek more of a democratic nation where they make the rules and not God. As a Gnostic Christian, I admit to being secular and have no love of the laws the Gods offer.

At present, we all live in Oligarchic countries. Some of these we call democratic, some communistic and others of various labels but at the end of the day, all of us live in Oligarchies. We are all owned and controlled by those with wealth and bought political power.

If I focus on the U.S., I do not see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, to not be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance here on earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven.

This goes against the notion of as above so below, or as Christians say, on earth as it is in heaven.

For Christians to end this governance conflict, --- they cannot have their cake and eat it too, ---Americans would have to bring God’s law to earth and scrap the notions of democracy and vote for a Timocratic Tyranny like what God has in heaven.

To accomplish the Christian goal of God’s law on earth as it is in heaven, the Christian right would have to gain power and end democracy in the U.S.

I would ask those Christians on the religious and political right, are you ready to try to dismantle the Oligarchy you presently live under, --- end the farce of democracy, --- and install God’s Timocratic Tyranny?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY



Several questions:

1. Why would we have to scrap democracy? It's sort of the great equalizers of people, which I'm pretty sure the biblical God is okay with.

2. Actually, I'm pretty sure even God would be okay with the separation of church and state, seeing as "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Render unto God that which is God's" is quote from Christ Himself.

3. How does government "govern" God? I wasn't aware He'd been called into court to transgressions. What's his tax percantage, and who's the IRS guy that has to keep tracking all that? I can only imagine what a pain in the ass it is when he has to declare at customs, being everywhere at once. It must be interesting swearing him in at court.

4. God doesn't really seem interested in governing. Otherwise, why even bother putting down the rules he put down? Why not reign over man as God-King? Actually, what's funny is that our forefather's modeled the set up of America after their belief in how God created and ran the universe, that being that He removed Himself from direct control, thereby granting us own of his greatest gifts: Freedom.

5. Why can I not consider objectively what is best, without bringing my religion into it? I mean, seriously, people do this every day, it's not that hard in general, just when you're under the gun. And having subjective opinions is fine, and we've never required that those views be removed. You're also misinterpreting the separation of church & state, which is more or less about protecting the government from religious control, as well as protecting religion from governmental control.

[tailfins]

What's worrying about that is that this is exactly what the most 'radical' (.. as our media insists on referring to them) Islamists would THEMSELVES say. I've seen the terrorist-supporting likes of Anjem Choudary say that man-made laws are subservient to God's laws. It's how he, and everyone like him, sees Caliphates as functioning.

To me, the point is that laws in both the UK and in the US are based on Christian values ('thou shalt not steal', etc ...).

Islam (and Catholicism or that matter) doesn't serve God, but rather Satan. I will put it in terms a Brit such as yourself will understand: Remember Ian Paisley, God rest his soul.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

What's worrying about that is that this is exactly what the most 'radical' (.. as our media insists on referring to them) Islamists would THEMSELVES say. I've seen the terrorist-supporting likes of Anjem Choudary say that man-made laws are subservient to God's laws. It's how he, and everyone like him, sees Caliphates as functioning.

To me, the point is that laws in both the UK and in the US are based on Christian values ('thou shalt not steal', etc ...).

I agree the sense that Christians have adopted that tenet but think that the world existed for as long as it did before Christianity before recognizing that it was immoral to steal, kill and what have you is rather egotistical of Christianity.

Ever hear of the Book of the Dead?

It has it's version of the Ten Commandments and they look like yours.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Islam (and Catholicism or that matter) doesn't serve God, but rather Satan. I will put it in terms a Brit such as yourself will understand: Remember Ian Paisley, God rest his soul.

Did my little question above this exchange go beyond your thinking or did I hurt your view of God's morals?

Regards
DL

[Gunny]

Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?


At present, governments control the law of the land and church policy to a large extent. Should the law of the land be God’s law?

Separation of church and state, to my way of thinking, is impossible. To think that an elected official who adheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the houses of government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous. Social, cultural and traditional conditioning that people live under cannot just be set aside in one’s mind. Further a representative must represent his constituents and in the U.S. they will be religious constituents who wish to be represented as religious and not necessarily secular.

Christians and other religious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny. Timocratic in the sense that God rules for love, honor and duty. Tyrannical in the sense that any who break any of the laws, large or small, are swiftly dealt with. The non-religious seek more of a democratic nation where they make the rules and not God. As a Gnostic Christian, I admit to being secular and have no love of the laws the Gods offer.

At present, we all live in Oligarchic countries. Some of these we call democratic, some communistic and others of various labels but at the end of the day, all of us live in Oligarchies. We are all owned and controlled by those with wealth and bought political power.

If I focus on the U.S., I do not see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, to not be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance here on earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven.

This goes against the notion of as above so below, or as Christians say, on earth as it is in heaven.

For Christians to end this governance conflict, --- they cannot have their cake and eat it too, ---Americans would have to bring God’s law to earth and scrap the notions of democracy and vote for a Timocratic Tyranny like what God has in heaven.

To accomplish the Christian goal of God’s law on earth as it is in heaven, the Christian right would have to gain power and end democracy in the U.S.

I would ask those Christians on the religious and political right, are you ready to try to dismantle the Oligarchy you presently live under, --- end the farce of democracy, --- and install God’s Timocratic Tyranny?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY



The flaw to your theory is you, as most non-religious people, think your morals are inherent. They are not. Without The Judeo-Christian God/Christ our laws and morals are based on, our culture would not be what it is.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Several questions:

1. Why would we have to scrap democracy? It's sort of the great equalizers of people, which I'm pretty sure the biblical God is okay with.
.

I lost what I wrote 3 times because of conditions today so I will do one question a time. Apologies.

There is no voting allowed in heaven so no vote would be allowed here.

Whose name would you put against God when you cannot place anyone above God?

--------------------

3. How does government "govern" God?

Who gave religion it’s tax break.

As to God himself, the state has told him where to shove his vile and barbaric laws.

------------------------

4. God doesn't really seem interested in governing.

That is not what Revelation states. I will not quote it as I assume you have read it.

----------------------

5. Why can I not consider objectively what is best, without bringing my religion into it?

You can if you do not believe in God. You cannot if you do. Fith and objectivity do not compute.

Faith v/s Reason

Faith is a way for you to quit using your "God given" power of Reason and Logic, so you will believe doctrines that moral men reject as immoral.

The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can you reason with God when you throw away reason?

Religions, especially Christianity reply.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

2. Actually, I'm pretty sure even God would be okay with the separation of church and state, seeing as "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Render unto God that which is God's" is quote from Christ Himself.
.

There are no states in God's kingdom. It is like a one world government and that s what we would have here under God rule.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The flaw to your theory is you, as most non-religious people, think your morals are inherent. They are not. Without The Judeo-Christian God/Christ our laws and morals are based on, our culture would not be what it is.

I am not a non-religious person. I am Gnostic Christian.

If not inherent, what did people use for the many years before Christianity came along.

How is it that there were many religions before the Jews wrote yours?

Regards
DL

[Gunny]

I am not a non-religious person. I am Gnostic Christian.

If not inherent, what did people use for the many years before Christianity came along.

How is it that there were many religions before the Jews wrote yours?

Regards
DL

And? Those religions were not Judeo-Christian and those cultures were not like ours. Our law is based on Old English law and Old English law was governed by the Church. First the Roman Catholic Church, then the Church of England. Our culture, our laws and our morals are based on European Christianity.

Has nothing to do with whatever other religions you think there were. The only thing inherent in man is food, shelter, and survival. By whatever means. Morals are the product of society, not genetics. Not some inherent goodness.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

And? Those religions were not Judeo-Christian and those cultures were not like ours. Our law is based on Old English law and Old English law was governed by the Church. First the Roman Catholic Church, then the Church of England. Our culture, our laws and our morals are based on European Christianity.

Has nothing to do with whatever other religions you think there were. The only thing inherent in man is food, shelter, and survival. By whatever means. Morals are the product of society, not genetics. Not some inherent goodness.

If you do not see inherent goodness being expressed in the following, then I do not agree with how you would define that term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Regards
DL