SHOCKING And UNBELIEVABLE Amendments To Amnesty Bill Already Passed!

[Pale Rider]

SHOCKING And UNBELIEVABLE Amendments To Amnesty Bill Already Passed!

Don't let ANYONE tell you that if this steaming pile of anti-American TRASH amnesty bill passes, we'll be better off. Take a look at the screwing of America you're getting so far...



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[GW in Ohio]

Pale: Why do I get the feeling that you'd be happy if only Anglo-Saxon Protestants lived in this country?

It's just a feeling, mind you......

[avatar4321]

Pale: Why do I get the feeling that you'd be happy if only Anglo-Saxon Protestants lived in this country?

It's just a feeling, mind you......

Why do you libs always resort to race baiting when your in a losing argument? Is it really that difficult to understand the outrage over illegal immigration compared to legal immigration?

[Hagbard Celine]

Why do you libs always resort to race baiting when your in a losing argument? Is it really that difficult to understand the outrage over illegal immigration compared to legal immigration?

To me it is. Illegals, while they DO have an illegal citizenship status, work just as hard or harder than you or I do to support their families. They're just trying to live their lives and provide for thier kids, wives, etc. To me, it's concerning that the border is as porous as it is, but outrage? To me, outrage sounds like concern mixed with either xenophobia or racism or both. You act like it's this confounding mystery as to why these people come here illegally to work. It's just one more tally on the list of ridiculous things conservatives are outraged about. :dunno: I'm at the point where another red-faced conservative in my face screaming about the end of American "values" is just another background noise I bypass on my way to enjoying the rest of my day.

[darin]

To me it is. Illegals, while they DO have an illegal citizenship status, work just as hard or harder than you or I do to support their families. They're just trying to live their lives and provide for thier kids, wives, etc. To me, it's concerning that the border is as porous as it is, but outrage? To me, outrage sounds like concern mixed with either xenophobia or racism or both. You act like it's this confounding mystery as to why these people come here illegally to work. It's just one more tally on the list of ridiculous things conservatives are outraged about. :dunno: I'm at the point where another red-faced conservative in my face screaming about the end of American "values" is just another background noise I bypass on my way to enjoying the rest of my day.



Do you feel that way about bank robbers? Pimps? Some Politicians? Other criminals?

[Hagbard Celine]

Do you feel that way about bank robbers? Pimps? Some Politicians? Other criminals?

Stealing, violence, forced prositution, violence against women, political malfeasance, etc. aren't the same as "not having a document that says you're ok to be here." Illegals are here to work (mainly for us). They aren't here to steal from us. They aren't here to commit violent crime (99 out of 100 aren't anyway). Crime isn't black and white. In fact nothing is. An illegal immigrant isn't the same as a bank robber just because both people broke the law. By your black and white line of thinking, everyone who's ever ran a stopsign or accelerated over the speed limit is in the same league as Charles Manson. Looking at the world in black and white terms is a fucked way to look at life. You have a brain, so use it to differentiate between armed robbery and crossing a border to work a seasonal job so that you can afford to feed your kids.

[darin]

By your black and white line of thinking, everyone who's ever ran a stopsign or accelerated over the speed limit is in the same league as Charles Manson.

WTH? Here you are saying I 'must' (due to my line of thinking) equate 'stop-sign-running' with a Mass-Murderer Master mind. That's perhaps the most pathetic "logic" i've seen in awhile.


Looking at the world in black and white terms is a fucked way to look at life. You have a brain, so use it to differentiate between armed robbery and crossing a border to work a seasonal job so that you can afford to feed your kids.

Stealing groceries from Safeway to feed one's kids is a crime. Entering this country Illegally is a crime, too. People CHOOSE to cross into this country, illegally, as a means to feed their kids. They should feed their kids from their OWN means, in their country, or apply for legal permission to work/live here.

They are lazy, self-centered, and criminals.

[GW in Ohio]

WTH? Here you are saying I 'must' (due to my line of thinking) equate 'stop-sign-running' with a Mass-Murderer Master mind. That's perhaps the most pathetic "logic" i've seen in awhile.



Stealing groceries from Safeway to feed one's kids is a crime. Entering this country Illegally is a crime, too. People CHOOSE to cross into this country, illegally, as a means to feed their kids. They should feed their kids from their OWN means, in their country, or apply for legal permission to work/live here.

They are lazy, self-centered, and criminals.

Unless you're 100% Amrican Indian, your people came to this country from someplace else......Germany, Italy, Ireland, Eastern Europe.....

Your people came here "legally" because the only way to get here from Europe was on a ship that stopped at Ellis Island.

But your people were driven by the same desperation and desire for a better life that impels Mexicans to come across our border.

And I guarantee you, if your people lived South of the Rio Grande instead of in Europe, they would have entered this country exactly the same way the current crop of illegals did.

I say, seal off the border....real tight...to shut off the flow of illegals, and then give those who are here a choice: come out of the shadows and take the path to citizenship or leave. If you don't have the papers to show you've applied for citizenship, you go to jail. Then you get deported.

And increase the penalties by several times for employers who hire illegals.

[darin]

I say, seal off the border....real tight...to shut off the flow of illegals, and then give those who are here a choice: come out of the shadows and take the path to citizenship or leave. If you don't have the papers to show you've applied for citizenship, you go to jail. Then you get deported.

And increase the penalties by several times for employers who hire illegals.


Sounds good.

[nevadamedic]

Pale: Why do I get the feeling that you'd be happy if only Anglo-Saxon Protestants lived in this country?

It's just a feeling, mind you......

Noone has a problem with anyone of another race coming to this country chasing the American dream, if they do it the right way. Im sure thats how Pale feels as well. Were just tired of them coming here working illegally, taking our jobs because they will work for a lot lower wage, using up our welfare, getting our scholarships and instead of putting the money they make back into our economy they send it to their home country and forcing us to learn their language when is should be the other way around.

[nevadamedic]

WTH? Here you are saying I 'must' (due to my line of thinking) equate 'stop-sign-running' with a Mass-Murderer Master mind. That's perhaps the most pathetic "logic" i've seen in awhile.



Stealing groceries from Safeway to feed one's kids is a crime. Entering this country Illegally is a crime, too. People CHOOSE to cross into this country, illegally, as a means to feed their kids. They should feed their kids from their OWN means, in their country, or apply for legal permission to work/live here.

They are lazy, self-centered, and criminals.

Entering this country is a Felony, failing to pay your taxes is a Felony. 95% of them steal someone's identity to gain employment and that is a Felony.

[nevadamedic]

Sounds good.

Also put more National Guardsmen on the boarder and give them shoot to kill orders. Deport the one's that are here and make them come back the right way. Dont reward them for committing several Felonies.

[Nukeman]

Stealing, violence, forced prositution, violence against women, political malfeasance, etc. aren't the same as "not having a document that says you're ok to be here." Illegals are here to work (mainly for us). They aren't here to steal from us. They aren't here to commit violent crime (99 out of 100 aren't anyway). Crime isn't black and white. In fact nothing is. An illegal immigrant isn't the same as a bank robber just because both people broke the law. By your black and white line of thinking, everyone who's ever ran a stopsign or accelerated over the speed limit is in the same league as Charles Manson. Looking at the world in black and white terms is a fucked way to look at life. You have a brain, so use it to differentiate between armed robbery and crossing a border to work a seasonal job so that you can afford to feed your kids.

Here are some statistics for you from the LA Times. I posted this in another thread but I feel it is appropriate for a reply to your assumption on some of the illegals. Keep in mind this is only in L.A. County in California and the numbers could be higher or lower depending on which state your in..

From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi- Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish Speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish. (There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

11. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
12. Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

13. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue

[Hagbard Celine]

They are lazy, self-centered, and criminals.
Oh, ok, they're lazy. Right. Think about that the next time you walk down that nice new brick sidewalk in downtown, wherever USA, or plow your teeth into that nice, juicy plum you got from the produce section at Piggly Wiggly or order that tostaguac from La Fiesta Mexican Restaurant. You kill me dmp. You're whole existence is like this big churning ball of contradictions.

[darin]

Oh, ok, they're lazy. Right. Think about that the next time you walk down that nice new brick sidewalk in downtown, wherever USA, or plow your teeth into that nice, juicy plum you got from the produce section at Piggly Wiggly or order that tostaguac from La Fiesta Mexican Restaurant. You kill me dmp. You're whole existence is like this big churning ball of contradictions.

Except I am nearly always right. (shrug). You are like that guy in the FedEx commercial - who is always wrong.


"We don't have French Benefits - they are Fringe Benefits.."

[Nukeman]

Oh, ok, they're lazy. Right. Think about that the next time you walk down that nice new brick sidewalk in downtown, wherever USA, or plow your teeth into that nice, juicy plum you got from the produce section at Piggly Wiggly or order that tostaguac from La Fiesta Mexican Restaurant. You kill me dmp. You're whole existence is like this big churning ball of contradictions.I would like to put my interpretation on this.

I think what D is refering to is that it takes more to change their own country than to come her and work. That is what I think he is saying is lazy. Its lazy to come to another country illegaly because you dont want to be botherd with the paperwork it is also lazy to come to another country instead of standing up for change in your own. these are issue's that I have with illegal immegration....

[Hagbard Celine]

I would like to put my interpretation on this.

I think what D is refering to is that it takes more to change their own country than to come her and work. That is what I think he is saying is lazy. Its lazy to come to another country illegaly because you dont want to be botherd with the paperwork it is also lazy to come to another country instead of standing up for change in your own. these are issue's that I have with illegal immegration....

Ok. Reasonable argument I suppose. But what about this? Mexico has a Presidential system similar to our own, filled with bureacracy, scandal, etc. So I axe you this: How easy is it for citizens in our own country to put real change into effect? We can vote for sure, but we pretty much choose between a douche or a turd sandwich every time and there is a strict, two-party system that caters solely to corporate lobbyists who seek and succeed in furthering corporate interests at the expense of individual citizens--and they give us the illusion of being able to effect real change by giving us "social" issues that don't matter and have zero effect on our daily lives to squabble over. How easy would it be for you or me to change this system? It wouldn't be easy at all. In fact, I doubt anyone could do it in a single lifetime. Now translate this same scenario over to Mexico. What would you do if your system was broken, perhaps irrepairably so, and there was a veritable cornucopia of work-options available just north of the border? Would you stay in poverty at the expense of your wife and kids so that you could drop another seemingly useless vote into the bucket so that maybe you might be able to make your country better? Or would you go over the border "illegally" and get a job that would ensure support for your family?

[GW in Ohio]

Noone has a problem with anyone of another race coming to this country chasing the American dream, if they do it the right way. Im sure thats how Pale feels as well. Were just tired of them coming here working illegally, taking our jobs because they will work for a lot lower wage, using up our welfare, getting our scholarships and instead of putting the money they make back into our economy they send it to their home country and forcing us to learn their language when is should be the other way around.

You guys will hate me for saying this, but my feeling is, if somebody will do the same work for less, more power to him...hire him.

We Americans have a real addiction to our high standard of living, and to hell with everyone else in the world who's working for starvation wages.

You guys on the right are not compassionate toward your brothers and sisters. You tend to have the attitude of just looking out for #1. My feeling is, that's no way to live your life.

[Nukeman]

Ok. Reasonable argument I suppose. But what about this? Mexico has a Presidential system similar to our own, filled with bureacracy, scandal, etc. So I axe you this: How easy is it for citizens in our own country to put real change into effect? We can vote for sure, but we pretty much choose between a douche or a turd sandwich every time and there is a strict, two-party system that caters solely to corporate lobbyists who seek and succeed in furthering corporate interests at the expense of individual citizens--and they give us the illusion of being able to effect real change by giving us "social" issues that don't matter and have zero effect on our daily lives to squabble over. How easy would it be for you or me to change this system? It wouldn't be easy at all. In fact, I doubt anyone could do it in a single lifetime. Now translate this same scenario over to Mexico. What would you do if your system was broken, perhaps irrepairably so, and there was a veritable cornucopia of work-options available just north of the border? Would you stay in poverty at the expense of your wife and kids so that you could drop another seemingly useless vote into the bucket so that maybe you might be able to make your country better? Or would you go over the border "illegally" and get a job that would ensure support for your family?I'm not argueing the "why" of why they come here. If you think about it there are approx 10-12 million mexicans living in the US illegaly this doesn't even take into consideration the number that are here LEGALLY. Now this being said that my friend is a HUGE politicle power house. If properly motivated, they could exact change the likes of which, have never been seen in Mexico before. The only way to motivate them to make a change in thier own country is to eliminate the ease with which they can illegaly enter the US.

If we were to send all 12 million home at once they could make or break the country of mexico...

[Nukeman]

You guys will hate me for saying this, but my feeling is, if somebody will do the same work for less, more power to him...hire him.

We Americans have a real addiction to our high standard of living, and to hell with everyone else in the world who's working for starvation wages.

You guys on the right are not compassionate toward your brothers and sisters. You tend to have the attitude of just looking out for #1. My feeling is, that's no way to live your life.


I bolded the parts that I agree with here. The first though is a little tricky. They can work for less all they want but they damn sure better be paying taxes. If not then they are stealing from the other that are. Without taxes we have no schools, roads, government, or protection. So if they are working for less more power to them but they better be paying for the services that they take advantage of....

I do however take exception with your assumption that we on the "right" are not compassionate. Year after Year more "conservative" or "righties" if you will out donate time, money, and gifts to those less fortunate. The vast majority of our police, military, medical, and other public service areas are filled with predominately people who call themselves "conservative" or republican.. Yet people in higher White Coller jobs are more "Liberal" or Democrats. I find this a little ironic that the people in the higher paying jobs are not as willing to donate to help and yet consider themselves enlightend and charitable, yet in reality the oppisite is true.

[manu1959]

just in time to vote in the 08 elections....what a shock....

[Pale Rider]

Pale: Why do I get the feeling that you'd be happy if only Anglo-Saxon Protestants lived in this country?

It's just a feeling, mind you......

Well, that would be just another example of liberal trying to spin a conservative into looking like a racist because the conservative is concerned about the sovereignty and well being of his country.

Nice try at back door name calling.

[Pale Rider]

Unless you're 100% Amrican Indian, your people came to this country from someplace else......Germany, Italy, Ireland, Eastern Europe.....
If you want to go with this argument, there is no conclusive proof that the American Indians are indigenous to America either. There is ample speculation that they crossed into Alaska from Russia on the ice bridge and migrated down to present day America.


Your people came here "legally" because the only way to get here from Europe was on a ship that stopped at Ellis Island.
But your people were driven by the same desperation and desire for a better life that impels Mexicans to come across our border.
There were no borders back then. This comparison is simply moot. But to continue on a point above, the present day inhabitants of Mexico aren't by and large indigenous to Mexico either. They're Spanish. They took Mexico over by force from the Aztecs and Miya's to name a couple. And now, they look to take over America without even firing a shot.


And I guarantee you, if your people lived South of the Rio Grande instead of in Europe, they would have entered this country exactly the same way the current crop of illegals did.
You can guarantee nothing. There are plenty of Mexicans that come here legally.


I say, seal off the border....real tight...to shut off the flow of illegals, and then give those who are here a choice: come out of the shadows and take the path to citizenship or leave. If you don't have the papers to show you've applied for citizenship, you go to jail. Then you get deported.

And increase the penalties by several times for employers who hire illegals.

[Hagbard Celine]

I bolded the parts that I agree with here. The first though is a little tricky. They can work for less all they want but they damn sure better be paying taxes. If not then they are stealing from the other that are. Without taxes we have no schools, roads, government, or protection. So if they are working for less more power to them but they better be paying for the services that they take advantage of....

I do however take exception with your assumption that we on the "right" are not compassionate. Year after Year more "conservative" or "righties" if you will out donate time, money, and gifts to those less fortunate. The vast majority of our police, military, medical, and other public service areas are filled with predominately people who call themselves "conservative" or republican.. Yet people in higher White Coller jobs are more "Liberal" or Democrats. I find this a little ironic that the people in the higher paying jobs are not as willing to donate to help and yet consider themselves enlightend and charitable, yet in reality the oppisite is true.
I think if you actually checked, you'd see that those with higher salaries donate more to charity per year than those in the blue collar class.

[nevadamedic]

You guys will hate me for saying this, but my feeling is, if somebody will do the same work for less, more power to him...hire him.

We Americans have a real addiction to our high standard of living, and to hell with everyone else in the world who's working for starvation wages.

You guys on the right are not compassionate toward your brothers and sisters. You tend to have the attitude of just looking out for #1. My feeling is, that's no way to live your life.

that is criminal to pay someone under minimum wage knowing they cant do anything about it because if they tell then they goto jail or get deported. Your logic is disgusting and cruel.

[Pale Rider]

The point of this all is, if this bill passes as is, right now, we're fucked, and that's no shit. This country will NOT be able to AFFORD everything the liberals have promised. HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of these illegals that will IMMEDIATELY get LEGAL STATUS, are CRIMINALS, DISEASED, and here for no other reason than to DO US HARM. But the LIBERALS have HAM STRUNG DHS and law enforcement so that they CAN'T EVEN ASK the LEGAL STATUS of someone. IT'S INSANE!!! How can ANYONE DEFEND THAT???!!! Don't you liberals want America to be SAFE???!!!

I just don't get you illegal defenders... because this whole debacle is NOT just as simple as, "they're just people looking for a job," THAT'S BULL SHIT! There's DRUG SMUGGLERS, GANG BANGERS, RAPISTS, DISEASED PEOPLE, ILLITERATES, PREGNANT MOTHERS, SCAMMERS, TERRORISTS, and on and on. WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT THEM? They will ALL INSTANTLY BECOME LEGAL under this new bill. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT???!!! FUCK!!! You can't be serious.

This bill needs to go straight into the TRASH! We have plenty of laws already on the books that would make an EXCELENT start if we JUST ENFORCED THEM.

[nevadamedic]

The point of this all is, if this bill passes as is, right now, we're fucked, and that's no shit. This country will NOT be able to AFFORD everything the liberals have promised. HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of these illegals that will IMMEDIATELY get LEGAL STATUS, are CRIMINALS, DISEASED, and here for no other reason than to DO US HARM. But the LIBERALS have HAM STRUNG DHS and law enforcement so that they CAN'T EVEN ASK the LEGAL STATUS of someone. IT'S INSANE!!! How can ANYONE DEFEND THAT???!!! Don't you liberals want America to be SAFE???!!!

I just don't get you illegal defenders... because this whole debacle is NOT just as simple as, "they're just people looking for a job," THAT'S BULL SHIT! There's DRUG SMUGGLERS, GANG BANGERS, RAPISTS, DISEASED PEOPLE, ILLITERATES, PREGNANT MOTHERS, SCAMMERS, TERRORISTS, and on and on. WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT THEM? They will ALL INSTANTLY BECOME LEGAL under this new bill. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT???!!! FUCK!!! You can't be serious.

This bill needs to go straight into the TRASH! We have plenty of laws already on the books that would make an EXCELENT start if we JUST ENFORCED THEM.

I agree with you, but if they are diseased, thats their problem. You cant discriminate because someone has a disease. I also think the bill would be a good bill if it didn't allow amnesty. I like the boarder security idea and the verification process but they both need to be tougher. I dont see why they cant deport these people then let them apply for citizenship and if granted they can come back...

[Pale Rider]

I agree with you, but if they are diseased, thats their problem. You cant discriminate because someone has a disease.
OH YES YOU CAN! As a matter of fact, we HAVE to. People are ROUTINELY denied citizenship because of illness.


I also think the bill would be a good bill if it didn't allow amnesty.
Well... it's amnesty. No matter how you look at it... it's amnesty.


I like the boarder security idea and the verification process but they both need to be tougher.
There is no verification process. All the illegals go through a 24 hour background check, in other words, NOTHING! There is NO WAY you can check someone like that. Basically, every single illegal will get a FREE PASS.


I dont see why they cant deport these people then let them apply for citizenship and if granted they can come back...
Believe me... we could... and I don't know why we don't either. After all, that IS what the VAST MAJORITY of Americans want.

[Nukeman]

I agree with you, but if they are diseased, thats their problem. You cant discriminate because someone has a disease. I also think the bill would be a good bill if it didn't allow amnesty. I like the boarder security idea and the verification process but they both need to be tougher. I dont see why they cant deport these people then let them apply for citizenship and if granted they can come back...

I gotta ask... What kind of medic are you that you dont see the wrong in the bolded part of your post.

We meaning the US has the right and the duty to forbid entry into our country anyone infected with a comunicable disease. Our government is duty bound to protect the CITIZENS of this country. We have in the past denied entry to individual caring AIDS, TB, and numourus other diseases.

TB was all but wiped out in the US with very few cases presented, now we have XR TB or extreme drug resistan TB this was unheard of until the last 5 years. I'll give you one big old guess as to where it came from...This goes for most childhood diseases as well, we are seeing a increase in diseases that were all but eradicated in the US. These come from countries with poor immunization or no immunization at all.. Do yo really want to allow just anyone into our country. What about the person we let in that has a form of TB with NO CURE. If you think that is impossible think again we will see it happen in our lifetime very soon.....

I cant believe that your a "medic" and dont know this simple fact.....

I and my coworkers have been exposed to more TB in the last 3 years than I was in the previous 15 combined. Where I live we have seen a HUGE increase in hispanic population and a number have TB. Dont ever think that their "sickness" is just theirs it affects EVERYONE

[avatar4321]

You guys will hate me for saying this, but my feeling is, if somebody will do the same work for less, more power to him...hire him.

We Americans have a real addiction to our high standard of living, and to hell with everyone else in the world who's working for starvation wages.

You guys on the right are not compassionate toward your brothers and sisters. You tend to have the attitude of just looking out for #1. My feeling is, that's no way to live your life.

How is it compassionate to watch our brothers and sisters be exploited? how is it compassionate to see politicians making them second class citizens for votes? How is it compassionate to do whatever we can to prevent the people from learning english and assimilating? And why is it uncompassionate to expect them to do so? They want to become Americans let them, but none of this half assed stuff. Because its the American culture that makes us great and without assimiliation they will never grow any further than they would in their home country.

[Yurt]

How is it compassionate to watch our brothers and sisters be exploited? how is it compassionate to see politicians making them second class citizens for votes? How is it compassionate to do whatever we can to prevent the people from learning english and assimilating? And why is it uncompassionate to expect them to do so? They want to become Americans let them, but none of this half assed stuff. Because its the American culture that makes us great and without assimiliation they will never grow any further than they would in their home country.

If this same "argument" actually had merit just a mere 100 years ago, this country would not be what it is today. It is shocking what is occuring today.

[nevadamedic]

I talked to a friend of mine at Senator Ensign's office today and he said they are getting over 2000 email's a day urging him not to support this Immigration bill. I dont know why anyone else wont listen to the people.

[Pale Rider]

I think there's new hope that the bill is dead. Our officials in Washington are beginning to smell the coffee. They know if they support this, their time in office is over. They can kiss their political career goodbye.