Get out your license... but don't move [Archive] - Debate Policy

revelarts

09-26-2014, 10:32 AM

SassyLady

09-27-2014, 01:31 AM

I can't believe how many times the cop fired at that guy point blank and the guy was still lucid and talking. Either most of the bullets missed or they are small caliber.

It's good to see the cop pay for being too aggressive ... don't know enough about the officer to determine if he had been in this situation before. Now I know why they say to always move your hands slowly.

red state

09-27-2014, 08:50 AM

Wow! Thanks, REV.

An SOB like that has no business being a cop and he definitely has no business WHATSOEVER having a gun of any kind for any reason. I'd prefer our released jail birds re-gain their 2nd Amendment rights rather than some chicken-$#!T cop go out lookin' to be a BAD@$$ when he, in fact, is nor ever has been 'one'.

Maybe the courts will assign this "SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE" as an indentured servant and have to shuttle the man he shot all over the place, mow his yard and clean the house......whether such a victim ever regains the use of their legs or not. This cop has to pay for the right of travel cuz he certainly took the wrong turn in this video. Yes, the citizen moved rather quickly but quickly and respectfully complying with an "officer" is NO reason to have been shot! Good grief! You must SEE the threat and (IF) the threat is there....then you can use lethal force. The cop should have stayed behind his door or tucked in to the back of the victim's vehicle until he had more clearly established his orders to the victim. You don't do what that guy did....to anyone!

I can't tell you the times I've read of high speed chases ending up in an innocent by-stander getting killed or permanently maimed cuz the FUZ wanted an exciting high speed chase. It isn't necessary and most of what they do isn't necessary. Bring back ALL of our 2nd Amendment rights and fire 50 - 75% of the cops (at least in Conservative areas where they truly aren't needed and VERY seldom used).

red state

09-27-2014, 08:59 AM

I can't believe how many times the cop fired at that guy point blank and the guy was still lucid and talking. Either most of the bullets missed or they are small caliber.

It's good to see the cop pay for being too aggressive ... don't know enough about the officer to determine if he had been in this situation before. Now I know why they say to always move your hands slowly.

Sassy, it is called adrenaline. When I was shot, I had more composure than those around me......till reality kicked in and the loss of blood started to take its toll. HA! Still, the right kind of ammo in the right place is gonna leave you OUT, in a confused panic or DOS.

My nephew just left the Memphis PD for FL and is so glad that he got out of that mess. Memphis is going to hell in a hand basket and that is not what my nephew (two tour in Iraq) needed. Now he has the Atlantic Beach Front and a bunch of college kids to contend with......further south FL is big on drugs but his area is relatively quite. Only a GOOD cop likes it good and QUIET. It is the "OTHER ONES" looking for ACTION that you have to look out for.....not that my nephew wasn't an adrenaline junkie but what he's seen and did has taken much of that out of him now. THANK GOD!

DLT

09-27-2014, 11:45 AM

Gunny

09-27-2014, 02:19 PM

revelarts

09-27-2014, 02:54 PM

jimnyc

09-27-2014, 02:58 PM

This guy moved VERY quickly to retrieve his license. I'm not saying he was wrong, just that's what I saw. I would have supported a tasing had the cop done so. But damn, 4 shots, and 2 looked to be with his back turned, at the very least one.

Gunny

09-27-2014, 03:19 PM

This guy moved VERY quickly to retrieve his license. I'm not saying he was wrong, just that's what I saw. I would have supported a tasing had the cop done so. But damn, 4 shots, and 2 looked to be with his back turned, at the very least one.

I'm not supporting the cop. I'm just not so quick to crucify him. What if the driver had come up firing? It's not unheard of, and cops fear that. They're ALWAYS at the mercy of the person being pulled over's first move. Maybe he wanted to go home that night?

It's a judgement call. I think he fired too soon. Since the introduction of "Wondernine" cops aren't taught to take one shot. What happens when you replace quality with quantity. Most are taught to triple-tap.

But in this day and age with all the Cops shows on, you can't tell me you're thinking when you make a sudden move back into your vehicle that conceals your hands.

Texas cops don't have that problem. You don't get out of the vehicle. If you even try you will here a loudspeaker tell you to stay in your vehicle. You keep your hands in plain sight. If you need to get your wallet or whatever, you tell him what you're going to do first, and you do it SLOWLY.

Everyone who wants to squeal about their rights can do so all they want. I'm not getting killed over a traffic ticket because I "have rights".

jimnyc

09-27-2014, 03:45 PM

^^ Yep. I asked a police officer friend of mine a long time back, what was the best way to help yourself when being pulled over. He said to always make sure the cop can see. Turn on interior lights if it's dark out. Roll down windows if tinted. Keep both hands on top of your wheel for him to see. Should have HAVE to move, do so very clearly and try to tell the officer what you are doing prior "I'm just going to my glove box for my insurance card" - or in this case "I'm just reaching into my truck for my wallet"

I'm not saying one deserves to be shot if they don't do this, or that a cop should shoot someone - just something that not only helps save lives, but can also help avoid a ticket or have it lowered!!

Gunny

09-27-2014, 03:58 PM

^^ Yep. I asked a police officer friend of mine a long time back, what was the best way to help yourself when being pulled over. He said to always make sure the cop can see. Turn on interior lights if it's dark out. Roll down windows if tinted. Keep both hands on top of your wheel for him to see. Should have HAVE to move, do so very clearly and try to tell the officer what you are doing prior "I'm just going to my glove box for my insurance card" - or in this case "I'm just reaching into my truck for my wallet"

I'm not saying one deserves to be shot if they don't do this, or that a cop should shoot someone - just something that not only helps save lives, but can also help avoid a ticket or have it lowered!!

It's called common sense. I'm not a cop. I HAVE taken a few prisoners. And you can bet the trigger was half-depressed. I wasn't playing. I was going home.

Born2DecadesLate

09-27-2014, 04:06 PM

This guy moved VERY quickly to retrieve his license. I'm not saying he was wrong, just that's what I saw. I would have supported a tasing had the cop done so. But damn, 4 shots, and 2 looked to be with his back turned, at the very least one.

Doubtful this LEO had a taser. Whiny liberals have removed that from most LEO's bag of tools. So instead idiots like this idiot get shot.

Am I the only one who remembers in drivers ed being told " If you get stopped by the police place your hands on the steering wheel and sit still until the officer asks to see your ID and insurance card and move SLOWLY when getting that?"

Personally I wouldn't' have shot the guy, I would punched him in the face.

Amazing how man idiots today think a cop should just put their own lives in danger simply because they are cops.

Given all the police being shot , or at least shot at, here lately, Only a moron doesn't understand why the police might shoot first and ask questions later when they see someone making a quick movement.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-27-2014, 04:09 PM

I can't believe how many times the cop fired at that guy point blank and the guy was still lucid and talking. Either most of the bullets missed or they are small caliber.

It's good to see the cop pay for being too aggressive ... don't know enough about the officer to determine if he had been in this situation before. Now I know why they say to always move your hands slowly.

I would not have shot until/unless I saw the man spin back around with a weapon in his hand.
And damn, shoot that many times at that range and not kill the guy is piss poor pitiful shooting if you ask me.
Hell, at that range tagging in four shots center mass should have been easy. I could have done so even shooting one handed.
I don't blame the cop for be very cautious and even his steps taken when the man spun around to reach in his vehicle but his shooting without seeing a weapon just doesn't cut it IMHO.
Now the victim acted foolishly, very foolishly but that gives no justification for getting shot dead.
The cop made an error in judgment. They both did actually. Guy is lucky he is not dead. Had it been me firing (if justifiably doing so)
I'd at least tagged the guy 2 or 3 of the four shots.

As somebody said, if a cop stops ya be slow and careful--never know when it's a trigger happy cop or one just pissed as hell at life and/or his wife..Tyr

Born2DecadesLate

09-27-2014, 04:14 PM

I would not have shot until/unless I saw the man spin back around with a weapon in his hand.
And damn, shoot that many times at that range and not kill the guy is piss poor pitiful shooting if you ask me.
Hell, at that range tagging in four shots center mass should have been easy. I could have done so even shooting one handed.
I don't blame the cop for be very cautious and even his steps taken when the man spun around to reach in his vehicle but his shooting without seeing a weapon just doesn't cut it IMHO.
Now the victim acted foolishly, very foolishly but that gives no justification for getting shot dead.
The cop made an error in judgment. They both did actually. Guy is lucky he is not dead. Had it been me firing (if justifiably doing so)
I'd at least tagged the guy 2 or 3 of the four shots.

As somebody said, if a cop stops ya be slow and careful--never know when it's a trigger happy cop or one just pissed as hell at life and/or his wife..Tyr

Spoken like a man who's never fired a gun at another human being.

Adrenaline can do funny things, constrict your eyesight, make your hands shaky, impair your judgement. It takes practice to overcome such things. That practice being real life situations. Very difficult to simulate the situations neccesary to create the adrenaline that occurs in real life shootings.

revelarts

09-27-2014, 04:50 PM

I'm not supporting the cop. I'm just not so quick to crucify him. What if the driver had come up firing? It's not unheard of, and cops fear that. They're ALWAYS at the mercy of the person being pulled over's first move. Maybe he wanted to go home that night?

It's a judgement call. I think he fired too soon. Since the introduction of "Wondernine" cops aren't taught to take one shot. What happens when you replace quality with quantity. Most are taught to triple-tap.

But in this day and age with all the Cops shows on, you can't tell me you're thinking when you make a sudden move back into your vehicle that conceals your hands.

Texas cops don't have that problem. You don't get out of the vehicle. If you even try you will here a loudspeaker tell you to stay in your vehicle. You keep your hands in plain sight. If you need to get your wallet or whatever, you tell him what you're going to do first, and you do it SLOWLY.

Everyone who wants to squeal about their rights can do so all they want. I'm not getting killed over a traffic ticket because I "have rights".

Ok

wait a minute.

so the man is out the door of the car when the cop BACKS_UPS and hops out of the car ask for the guys license.
the man looks a bit startled but immediately tries to OBEY checks his pants then turns .. to get his license... a bit to quickly .. ok maybe... but do "civilians" get the excuse of Adrenaline when a cop suddenly jumps out of the car with his hand on his gun.
Yep, IMO he had to have gun out or his hand on it Unless the cop is marshal Dillon I don't know how he got his gun unholstered so quickly to fire.

Then the Cops SCREAMS "GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!" So now If the guy moves quickly to obey that Order he's wrong, If he moves to slowly he's wrong.
It's a no win situation for the civilian.
move to slow your wrong, move to fast your wrong, talk to soft your wrong, to loud your wrong. don't watch enough cops shows with police behaving badly and nervous .. your wrong.

Aren't the police suppose to be the ones with the training?
are 'civilians" required to train for police stops now or are they at fault in an stop gone wrong?

Whenever a cops pulls over someone the citizen is the one in most danger.
cops always have guns, sticks, cuffs, often tasers and martial arts training and a gang of back-up.
Cops want to go home safe, so do 99% of the people they pull over FOR SEAT BELT INFRACTIONS.

....
...Personally I wouldn't' have shot the guy, I would punched him in the face....
.

So why exactly would you "punch him the face"?
I'm not sure how you conclude you have authority here for that.
please enlighten us to proper police procedure for the crime here that calls for a punch in the face?

I'm glad the cops off the force, and up on charges. maybe it''l be a wake up call to other cops not to be such --holes.
But i wonder if it doesn't just make some more bitter an angry at the people they are suppose to protect and serve.

the cop went home healthy the innocent guy went to the hospital could have been the grave but it wasn't for lack of the cop trying to send hm there.

if some cops feel the job is to dangerous they should quit rather than take on the motto 'shot 1st ask questions later'.

revelarts

09-27-2014, 04:59 PM

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/11-year-old-building-tree-fort-says-officer-pulled/nfQKK/

Cop Pulls Gun On Kids Building Tree Fort

HENRY COUNTY, Ga. —
A fifth-grader says he was terrified when a police officer pointed a gun at him and his friends while they built a tree fort.

Omari Grant, 11, said he and his friends often play in a wooded area behind his home and were building a fort when a neighbor in the next subdivision called police to complain about what the boys were doing.

But no one anticipated what Omari and his mother say happened next.

"I guess the release of tension was like, ‘Mom, he had a gun in my face, Mommy. Mommy, he had a gun in my face,’" said Janice Baptiste, Omari’s mother.

Baptiste told Channel 2’s Aaron Diamant that Henry County police officers walked Omari home last week.

"So my son was of course traumatized by that," Baptiste said.

Omari told Diamant that two officers, one with his gun drawn, rolled up on him and a few of his friends as they built a fort in the trees behind his home.

"I was thinking that I don't want to be shot today, so I just listened to what they said," Omari said.

Omari said the officer holding his gun also used foul language and made him and his friends lay down on the ground.

"I learned that they're supposed to help you not make you feel scared to even come outside," Omari said.

Diamant ran what Omari told him past Edgar Dillard, whose wife, according to 911 records, called in from the next subdivision to complain the boys were "chopping off tree limbs."

"Yeah, that's pretty shocking to hear that a gun was pulled on a child," Dillard said.

And the reason for his wife's call: "There were falling hazards, tripping hazards, all types of hazards, so No. 1 was concern for the children and concern for the environment," Dillard said....

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/e4l5w5_9ook?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Born2DecadesLate

09-27-2014, 05:08 PM

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/11-year-old-building-tree-fort-says-officer-pulled/nfQKK/

Cop Pulls Gun On Kids Building Tree Fort

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/e4l5w5_9ook?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" height="360" width="640" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Thank God little kids never lie.

revelarts

09-27-2014, 05:18 PM

Thank God little kids never lie.

Thank God cops never lie... or do anything wrong for that matter.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-27-2014, 05:27 PM

Spoken like a man who's never fired a gun at another human being.

Adrenaline can do funny things, constrict your eyesight, make your hands shaky, impair your judgement. It takes practice to overcome such things. That practice being real life situations. Very difficult to simulate the situations neccesary to create the adrenaline that occurs in real life shootings.

No, its spoken like a man that has prepared and made decisions on how best to survive in any lethal gun fighting situation.
Fear and frantic actions can easily get one killed just as could unsound hesitation. At that distance hitting a target that big is easy for an expert handgun shooter. As you say adrenaline can do funny things but I've been in several fights opponents had weapons other than guns--got the damn scars to prove it and I didn't lose either my head or my life. And that's because I was prepared mentally to do things in a certain way. Time for being uncool is after the few seconds/minutes one first engages in a fight like that. Would I win every time? Hell no.. but the plan is to win the first time around and worry about future events later if able.
The cop's training and shooting was poor IMHO..
Confidence is a great strength when it is not based upon folly.
I've only spent 54 years shooting guns, fifty of those has been with handgun, rifle and shotgun(born and raised shooting- a Southern boy).;)
I happen to have a great talent for shooting, even within my own family where my father and grandfather were both top shots
Ever watch that tv show about top shots, the competition? They come up with amazing shots for the competitors to have to make.
I watch and remember my father and grandfather taking even harder shots competing against each other with amazing hits..
And in my early teens they both admitted I was shooting far better than either of them.
Would I fkk up and panic--who knows? but my money is on my being cool until the target is hit and down..
That's how one survives--by not losing ones head until its over..
Say, how many gunfights have you been in with handguns???
Long guns at longer ranges make a huge difference.. --Tyr

Born2DecadesLate

09-27-2014, 06:40 PM

No, its spoken like a man that has prepared and made decisions on how best to survive in any lethal gun fighting situation.
Fear and frantic actions can easily get one killed just as could unsound hesitation. At that distance hitting a target that big is easy for an expert handgun shooter. As you say adrenaline can do funny things but I've been in several fights opponents had weapons other than guns--got the damn scars to prove it and I didn't lose either my head or my life. And that's because I was prepared mentally to do things in a certain way. Time for being uncool is after the few seconds/minutes one first engages in a fight like that. Would I win every time? Hell no.. but the plan is to win the first time around and worry about future events later if able.
The cop's training and shooting was poor IMHO..
Confidence is a great strength when it is not based upon folly.
I've only spent 54 years shooting guns, fifty of those has been with handgun, rifle and shotgun(born and raised shooting- a Southern boy).;)
I happen to have a great talent for shooting, even within my own family where my father and grandfather were both top shots
Ever watch that tv show about top shots, the competition? They come up with amazing shots for the competitors to have to make.
I watch and remember my father and grandfather taking even harder shots competing against each other with amazing hits..
And in my early teens they both admitted I was shooting far better than either of them.
Would I fkk up and panic--who knows? but my money is on my being cool until the target is hit and down..
That's how one survives--by not losing ones head until its over..
Say, how many gunfights have you been in with handguns???
Long guns at longer ranges make a huge difference.. --Tyr

Oh, you're a southern boy, why didn't you say so....

You know what the first thing the Army does with southern boys who think they can shoot?

Teaches them to shoot

You can shoot a target or maybe a deer? Good for you private Tyr. Meanwhile men who have seen combat know that pointing a gun at a man has an affect on you, doubly so when it's up close and personal.

No one can expect a beat cop to be used to that. You want to see one shot one kill, go watch a Tom Cruise movie. Real life is sometimes messier.

Oh, I missed your question about my personal experience with shooting with handguns.

Some, but usually when I had to resort to a handgun it's because something went wrong. You see I was the guy trained to go in and take someone out silently. 5 kills in Afghanistan with a knife, 2 more with a pistol. 1 with my bare hands. I had trained for YEARS and had already gotten my hands dirty and still the adrenaline can get you.

And you expect a man who writes tickets for a living could do well? come on.

grannyhawkins

09-27-2014, 07:13 PM

red state

09-27-2014, 08:37 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/25/ohio-wal-mart-surveillance-video-shows-police-shooting-and-killing-john-crawford-iii/

I've checked this video several times I don't see anything that looks like the Cops ever gave an order at all.
the guy is on the phone talking and then he goes down.
i see NO reaction to any command,
and I don't even see where there was much time between where the police 1st see him and Shoot.

But these guys get off and go back to the job I suppose.

Below, This man had a water hose in friends front yard. Shot dead, Cops feared for their lives.
another 911 call from some idiot who assumes they have a gun.
and apparently no warning from the cops here either.

Rev, I hate to say it but you may be reaching a bit here. It sounds as thought this guy with the water hose was actually wanting DEATH X COP. I'm not sure but I don't think the hose gun was even hooked up to the water hose but it is very strange for him to be sitting there drunk on the steps holding the "water pistol" with both hands and pointing it at the cops. My nephew had to put a fellow Iraq vet down in Memphis a few years ago......the guy was sitting on his porch, pointing his gun at passing traffic. The cops got there and my nephew (now in FL) pulled around back, confronted the guy but the guy aggressively turned and pointed at the unseen officer. The other officers were to the guy's other side making themselves known. Sad but it happened and it tore my nephew all to pieces.

REV......you are, however, SPOT about your first video. Whether that guy was an awful person or simply a fool, he did not deserve to be shot. He was already out of the car and looked at the cop (unsure if the cop was there for gas or a drink.....as he was or confronting him). After the cop told him to get the liscense, he did so PERIOD. Screw "fast movement" or "he shouldn't have been out of his car". Using Gunny's own scenario of what happens in Texas, this cop was WRONG in so many ways I stopped counting. The cop put himself in harm's way by leaving the protection of his car door and should have clearly told the guy what the problem was. He actually should have instructed the guy to come to him (since the guy was already out of his car when the cop pulled up). As JIM said, the cop seemed to "possibly" shoot the guy before he had even turned around good and the cop damn sure fired upon a guy with his hands CLEARLY up in the air!!!!

Tyr is also correct in that the cop could have shot or killed someone else UNJUSTIFIED as he did the guy he shot with those wild rounds at such close range. In Tyr's defense, I'm not sure if he's ever had to shoot anyone but that 'adrenaline thing' as some other poster suggested as to why he missed STILL doesn't cut it. I and Tyr both have been in some terrible 'situations' and even though adrenaline possibly helped or hindered, the 'situation'.....the situation was inevitably handled with both precision and effectiveness.

Whether in a bar or the Great Outdoors, many of us have faced scenarios that could have gone wrong....this cop just showed how ineffective and inaccurate he was. There is little doubt in my mind that these two things...much less his poor judgement to begin with proves that he should have NEVER been a cop and should NEVER have had a gun.

If this terrible "cop" is still in law enforcement, I hope it is meter maid (with only a whistle and ticket pad). Even so, I'd look over my shoulder if I were him......just sayin'.

red state

09-27-2014, 08:47 PM

Oh, you're a southern boy, why didn't you say so....

You know what the first thing the Army does with southern boys who think they can shoot?

Teaches them to shoot

You can shoot a target or maybe a deer? Good for you private Tyr. Meanwhile men who have seen combat know that pointing a gun at a man has an affect on you, doubly so when it's up close and personal.

No one can expect a beat cop to be used to that. You want to see one shot one kill, go watch a Tom Cruise movie. Real life is sometimes messier.

Oh, I missed your question about my personal experience with shooting with handguns.

Some, but usually when I had to resort to a handgun it's because something went wrong. You see I was the guy trained to go in and take someone out silently. 5 kills in Afghanistan with a knife, 2 more with a pistol. 1 with my bare hands. I had trained for YEARS and had already gotten my hands dirty and still the adrenaline can get you.

And you expect a man who writes tickets for a living could do well? come on.

They may teach Southern Boys who THINK they can shoot to shoot but they'll not teach a Southern Boy who KNOWS how to shoot a thing about shooting. They may try to train everyone to KILL their enemy but they'll not teach me, Tyr or anyone who's been at it their entire life how to shoot......or outsmart the enemy. A guy not too far from me taught the military how to shoot as well as PLAN a strategy for victory. There's been many such men from the SOUTH so stick your uniteresting war stories and your holier-than-thou attitude in your pipe and smoke it.

red state

09-27-2014, 08:52 PM

It looks like the video starts out, with the squad car stationary in a parking lot or delivery road for a business??? If that's the case, that wouldn't be a public street and you shouldn't have to have a seat belt on???

Even Barney Fife, couldn't have screwed that sequence of events up any worse than this guy did.

Granny, this guy makes Barney look like Marshal Dillon. At least Barney NEVER shot anyone.....much less an innocent guy out of his car to get a gas, a candy bar or a pop. Well, he got a pop alright but it wasn't a soda pop. In fact, I wouldn't dishonor Barney's character by lowering it to this idiot's handling of a SEAT BELT violation.

Gunny

09-27-2014, 09:00 PM

Ok

wait a minute.

so the man is out the door of the car when the cop BACKS_UPS and hops out of the car ask for the guys license.
the man looks a bit startled but immediately tries to OBEY checks his pants then turns .. to get his license... a bit to quickly .. ok maybe... but do "civilians" get the excuse of Adrenaline when a cop suddenly jumps out of the car with his hand on his gun.
Yep, IMO he had to have gun out or his hand on it Unless the cop is marshal Dillon I don't know how he got his gun unholstered so quickly to fire.

Then the Cops SCREAMS "GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!" So now If the guy moves quickly to obey that Order he's wrong, If he moves to slowly he's wrong.
It's a no win situation for the civilian.
move to slow your wrong, move to fast your wrong, talk to soft your wrong, to loud your wrong. don't watch enough cops shows with police behaving badly and nervous .. your wrong.

Aren't the police suppose to be the ones with the training?
are 'civilians" required to train for police stops now or are they at fault in an stop gone wrong?

Whenever a cops pulls over someone the citizen is the one in most danger.
cops always have guns, sticks, cuffs, often tasers and martial arts training and a gang of back-up.
Cops want to go home safe, so do 99% of the people they pull over FOR SEAT BELT INFRACTIONS.

So why exactly would you "punch him the face"?
I'm not sure how you conclude you have authority here for that.
please enlighten us to proper police procedure for the crime here that calls for a punch in the face?

I'm glad the cops off the force, and up on charges. maybe it''l be a wake up call to other cops not to be such --holes.
But i wonder if it doesn't just make some more bitter an angry at the people they are suppose to protect and serve.

the cop went home healthy the innocent guy went to the hospital could have been the grave but it wasn't for lack of the cop trying to send hm there.

if some cops feel the job is to dangerous they should quit rather than take on the motto 'shot 1st ask questions later'.

YOu know I'm not reading all that crap. Abridged version, please ....

aboutime

09-27-2014, 09:01 PM

Granny, this guy makes Barney look like Marshal Dillon. At least Barney NEVER shot anyone.....much less an innocent guy out of his car to get a gas, a candy bar or a pop. Well, he got a pop alright but it wasn't a soda pop. In fact, I wouldn't dishonor Barney's character by l owering it to this idiot's handling of a SEAT BELT violation.

This guy makes more sense too!http://icansayit.com/images/barney.jpg

red state

09-27-2014, 09:59 PM

Yeah....and ANDY never had the FBI teach him a thing about shooting or how to catch a crook. In fact, he was an excellent shot and taught them (the FEDS) how to catch a crook on a number of occasions (without firing a shot). Of course, that is on TV and I thought I'd make mention of that before some egg-head, know-it-all took it upon himself to remind all of us how TV isn't real or how Southern boys can't shoot. HA! I wonder if anyone has ever gathered stats on the percentage of special forces who are SOUTHERN or from where the better shots are from. I believe the best of the best was from the SOUTH (always have been.....always will be).

Barney talked a big talk too while ANDY, who never bragged about how great he was, always got the job done.....despite having Barney as a deputy. You can't teach a good cop to be a good cop.....it is within their upbringing and built in character. You can't teach some folks to kill others to a certain extent. You either have it or you don't (to a certain extent). I once asked my grandfather, who was pleasantly reminiscing about WWII days in the Pacific, how many men he had killed. I was young and foolish and after popping that question, ruined it all for everyone. The laughter stopped and the story telling was over. My grandfather (a decorated sgt) had enough honor and decency to not talk (or brag) about the things that bothered him even though he performed his duties well and was justified in doing all the things that war forces a man to do to other men. Barney was a talker who allowed his mouth and his pea shooter go off at the wrong time....Andy (and my grandfather) were real men of honor, intelligence and tact.

tact - definition of tact by The Free <wbr>Dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tact)
www.thefreedictionary.com/tact Tact (t kt) n.1....sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.

Born2DecadesLate

09-27-2014, 10:17 PM

They may teach Southern Boys who THINK they can shoot to shoot but they'll not teach a Southern Boy who KNOWS how to shoot a thing about shooting. They may try to train everyone to KILL their enemy but they'll not teach me, Tyr or anyone who's been at it their entire life how to shoot......or outsmart the enemy. A guy not too far from me taught the military how to shoot as well as PLAN a strategy for victory. There's been many such men from the SOUTH so stick your uniteresting war stories and your holier-than-thou attitude in your pipe and smoke it.

I neither know nor care if my "stories" interest you, but I don't give a shit where you come from, you join the Army or the Marines, and you don't know shit about shooting until they teach you. You may THINK you know about shooting, but you don't.

I'm not holier than thou, I am however without question your superior in terms of using or being a weapon. This is proven by the fact that you believe it takes an especially incompetent shooter to not be able to kill a man with a handgun in 1 or 2 shots from mere feet away.

It does not take an incompetent shooter to do so, it merely takes a less than trained shot to do so. Take me out to a shooting range with a .50 sniper rifle and I'll hit within 2" of bulls eye at 1000 meters all day long. Oh, but I absolutely , positivel y missed a 750 meter shot with the same weapon when firing on a live target. Why? Because I didn't shoot at live targets from range very often. Most of my work was done in close.

Translate that to a cop and you see someone who doesn't shoot at people very often at all. And we should want to keep it that way.

Gunny

09-28-2014, 11:09 AM

I neither know nor care if my "stories" interest you, but I don't give a shit where you come from, you join the Army or the Marines, and you don't know shit about shooting until they teach you. You may THINK you know about shooting, but you don't.

I'm not holier than thou, I am however without question your superior in terms of using or being a weapon. This is proven by the fact that you believe it takes an especially incompetent shooter to not be able to kill a man with a handgun in 1 or 2 shots from mere feet away.

It does not take an incompetent shooter to do so, it merely takes a less than trained shot to do so. Take me out to a shooting range with a .50 sniper rifle and I'll hit within 2" of bulls eye at 1000 meters all day long. Oh, but I absolutely , positivel y missed a 750 meter shot with the same weapon when firing on a live target. Why? Because I didn't shoot at live targets from range very often. Most of my work was done in close.

Translate that to a cop and you see someone who doesn't shoot at people very often at all. And we should want to keep it that way.

Assume much? I could shoot a rifle by the time I was 6.

I use this phrase very rarely , but you're full of shit Mr Weapon X. If you could or have done any of all that bullshit you say, you wouldn't be putting it on political message board.

Looks to me like you're being purposefully ambiguous about shooting defenseless animals hoping to get the reader to believe something else. Your post is as obvious as sunlight to anyone that's been in a firefight. You think you can make all those cool, cold decisions with a ton of adrenalin pumping through your veins and you're trying to process info and protect yourself and others at the same time? Good luck, Wyatt Earp.

Your ass would be on Ship's Platoon because you'd get somebody killed.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 11:16 AM

Assume much? I could shoot a rifle by the time I was 6.

I use this phrase very rarely , but you're full of shit Mr Weapon X. If you could or have done any of all that bullshit you say, you wouldn't be putting it on political message board.

Looks to me like you're being purposefully ambiguous about shooting defenseless animals hoping to get the reader to believe something else. Your post is as obvious as sunlight to anyone that's been in a firefight. You think you can make all those cool, cold decisions with a ton of adrenalin pumping through your veins and you're trying to process info and protect yourself and others at the same time? Good luck, Wyatt Earp.

Your ass would be on Ship's Platoon because you'd get somebody killed.

Uh what? I'm retired . That's why I'm posting instead of out doing what I used to do.

As for the bold paragraph, I'm not sure what your beef is, we said exactly the same thing.

I will assume you simply misread.

Gunny

09-28-2014, 11:26 AM

Uh what? I'm retired . That's why I'm posting instead of out doing what I used to do.

As for the bold paragraph, I'm not sure what your beef is, we said exactly the same thing.

I will assume you simply misread.

I did misread. My apologies.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 11:34 AM

I did misread. My apologies.

Not a big deal,

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-28-2014, 01:01 PM

What does long gun shooting have to do with pistol, cop and mistakes ?

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 01:18 PM

What does long gun shooting have to do with pistol, cop and mistakes ?

Not much except for the adrenaline that a person can't help when shooting at an actual person. And from experience the adrenaline is much higher when it is up close and personal, and it's even higher when you aren't accustomed to such things.

It takes combat experience to do such things, you don't get that experience by shooting deer.

Surely you don't WANT cops to be used to shooting people and thus only need one bullet........

grannyhawkins

09-28-2014, 01:47 PM

Not much except for the adrenaline that a person can't help when shooting at an actual person. And from experience the adrenaline is much higher when it is up close and personal, and it's even higher when you aren't accustomed to such things.

It takes combat experience to do such things, you don't get that experience by shooting deer.

Surely you don't WANT cops to be used to shooting people and thus only need one bullet........

Takin a life, whether two legged or four legged, involves adrenaline, unless yur a charlie manson or dahmer type. Yeah, it's different when they can shoot back, but the bottom line is, you gotta control your emotions and your heartbeat. A sudden rush of adrenaline can work both ways, it can give you a boost, or it can also bring you to your knees. Control your emotions, or your emotions control you!!! Just so ya know, I sometimes have trouble with that!!!

Gunny

09-28-2014, 01:48 PM

Not a big deal,

It's not. Except I was wrong. When i'm right, I'm right. When I'm wrong, I need to own that just as much as I do when I'm right. ;)

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 01:51 PM

It's not. Except I was wrong. When i'm right, I'm right. When I'm wrong, I need to own that just as much as I do when I'm right. ;)

^ That's integrity right there, I'd expect NOTHING less from a Gunny.

NightTrain

09-28-2014, 01:57 PM

It's not. Except I was wrong. When i'm right, I'm right. When I'm wrong, I need to own that just as much as I do when I'm right. ;)

It seems that's a quality that's greatly lacking these days.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 01:58 PM

It seems that's a quality that's greatly lacking these days.

Wow right. On the other message board I look at, but don't post, what a cesspool. I mean those people just get proven wrong and keep on posting without so much as a hitch.

I wrote something, you showed me I was wrong, I say "hey I missed that" and we move on. Is that too adult like?

NightTrain

09-28-2014, 02:01 PM

Wow right. On the other message board I look at, but don't post, what a cesspool. I mean those people just get proven wrong and keep on posting without so much as a hitch.

I wrote something, you showed me I was wrong, I say "hey I missed that" and we move on. Is that too adult like?

Yeah, I never understood that mentality.

In my mind, one of the hallmarks of being a man is admitting when I'm wrong... which I have been, many times.

red state

09-28-2014, 02:01 PM

Yes, integrity goes a long way and I believe Gunny admitted to a misread about adrenaline. Something you could learn from when you say that you KNOW everything or are superior to another (whom you do not know).

I neither know nor care if my "stories" interest you, but I don't give a shit where you come from, you join the Army or the Marines, and you don't know shit about shooting until they teach you. You may THINK you know about shooting, but you don't. I'm not holier than thou, I am however without question your superior in terms of using or being a weapon. This is proven by the fact that you believe it takes an especially incompetent shooter to not be able to kill a man with a handgun in 1 or 2 shots from mere feet away. It does not take an incompetent shooter to do so, it merely takes a less than trained shot to do so. Take me out to a shooting range with a .50 sniper rifle and I'll hit within 2" of bulls eye at 1000 meters all day long. Oh, but I absolutely , positivel y missed a 750 meter shot with the same weapon when firing on a live target. Why? Because I didn't shoot at live targets from range very often. Most of my work was done in close. Translate that to a cop and you see someone who doesn't shoot at people very often at all. And we should want to keep it that way

You don't know me....you talk too much. I never said that anyone should be able to kill a man with a handgun in 1 - 2 shots.......missing a live target after much practice and training is something any shooter can identify with until they have had to confront a live target (aka human being ~ not a deer or moving target). And say.....getting back to earlier discussions that other members mentioned in bringing Andy's deputy into this.......didn't Barney Fife also refer to himself as a weapon. I suppose that would make you THE weapon of all weapons....Right?

I wasn't BORN2eggsshyofacarton but I'm not inferior to NO man so you can put that in your pipe and smoke it too. And don't put or add words to something I've not stated about this cop or in general. I believe the BEST can goof up just as the worst can luck up but training is training and this cop showed poor judgement/execution in safety, attitude and common SOUTHERN sense with a reaction that topped it all off with an inability to back up what he started. You see, he wasn't jumped or shot at without warning....the victim was. He sucked. PERIOD. that crappy performance may have been caused by a headache, hangover or adrenaline but bottom line is he tanked and his performance SUCKED. The poster talking about his obvious terrible shooting and mentality was merely speaking his mind without attacking anyone here. He or any good ole Southern boy did nothing to earn that empty rant of insults or the undergoing of your dubitable accounts.

And for the record, one doesn't have to be military to have trained (hand to hand or long, Long, LONG distance) to be able to meet a "need". If that need is to defend myself or my family.....you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm gonna do everything in my being to be that threat's worse day on earth. Our very founding is based on good ole boys rising to the occasion and kicking the greatest military of that time's @$$. Heck, same applies for the untrained VS trained during the War Between the States....except for the "win' thing. The South kicked @$$ so hard and for so long that we were exhausted, hungry and the North simply had more targets than we ammo.

I've been involved in circumstances that I wish I had not been in but I KNOW that I have it within me to carry out a suitable conclusion. In reality, NONE, not even the military, are (ARE) that guy to git-r-done until the time forces them to be. My nephew (an Iraq vet and cop of over 10 years) can tell you the same thing. He's a good shot....real good...but it was I (not the military) that showed him more of how to shoot well and safely. He'll tell you that himself and will also tell you that he's appreciative that I was a dad to him when he had no dad. He laughed on a number of occasions that all the military did was give him more rounds to practice than what we could afford at home. After all Clinton made ammo much higher and I can load only so many rounds (quite monotonous after a few hours at the loading table). Only my dad could afford 100's of rounds to practice or the time to load the rounds. The military may have taught him tactical and how to disassemble/reassemble a rifle but the shooting skills was already there. No, the military folks are like any other 2nd Amendment American who takes their responsibilities SERIOUSLY and seeks to be proficient. None are "that guy/gal" until that time comes and until that time comes, they are in training just like the rest of us.

Again, you don't know me and I'll not bore you with my lil' insignificant "stories" or what all I have in the way of training but I've had some of the VERY best to show me the ropes.....as well as the mat. I don't know you either which is why I would never tell someone that I KNOW I'm superior or that Southern guys can't shoot. I still won't because it is unbecoming and I simply don't know who is the better. We'll never KNOW, for certain, who is the superior when it comes to shooting, fighting, casting a net, flying a kite or sneaking in behind enemy lines and taking out an entire patrol (single handedly and with a toothpick) but it is more obvious to me who is the more obnoxious....and I'm fairly obnoxious when it is forced out of me (but I can back it up). I'm sure, by now, it is obvious that I took offense to your unwarranted attack on the SOUTH or folks you don't know cuz I dislike those who THINK they know everything and seem to think we "inferiors" are interested in knowing anything about blow hards. In fact, any one of us could spout off as you were so easy to do but those here that I hold high regard for have a little more reserve about themselves before making themselves look like a blow-hard.

I also take issue with your attack on law enforcement as (ticket pushers/writers). You do realize that many (if not most) law officers are military? Why of course you do....you KNOW everything. Something about your rants sound very peculiar but I'm not expert on military issues.....I'm just the guy who can SHOOT better than some of my military friends and family (including my nephew who served in Iraq and the streets of down-town Memphis). Look, if you served, I appreciate the military's service but that doesn't make a hill of beans to me when it comes to telling me what I know or don't know....when YOU don't KNOW. Sounds as IF you were POSSIBLY told that you didn't KNOW how to shoot until daddy boot camp taught you....and that may be true (FOR YOU) but many guys NORTH or SOUTH who knew [KNEW] how to shoot before daddy boot camp came along, simply shrugged and took all that nonsense in to get through training. Some probably helped train or keep it safe out there from greenies. You do realize that a portion of that jive is to break you down so that they can program you to be better suited for the military's interest/purpose? Right? No, just because they told you that and because you believe it doesn't make it so....just as your comments on cops being "ticket pushers/writers" doesn't make it gospel. You're truly obnoxious aren't you? I'd certainly like to see you and my nephew have a 'discussion' about his being a ticket pusher/writer. HA! I just don't know about that boy.....he was once so nice but now he's more like me. He don't push no bull on anyone and he don't take none. Perhaps he's becoming an old dog.....that'll bite if stepped on.

Interesting subject; SHOOTING. I don't have 1,000 "yards" to shoot but we do have 8, 100 yd slots and had any other Debate Policy member been a bit humorous or clever (even respectful) instead of obnoxious about what they KNOW and what we don't KNOW, a nice friendly conversation about bows, rifles, MMA or any bad experience under the influence of adrenaline, would have been enjoyed or jokingly jabbed between the two or group with a challenge to prove their skills. It would have ended in respectful comments and that would have been the extent of it. You see, we may disagree with other members but, for the most part, we are respectful until we are disrespected or lied to. You, SIR, were out of line and still are cuz you proclaim to KNOW everything and lil' ole inferior me knows nothing....but I've got your # and that is EVERYTHING.

I'd guarantee anyone reading this that this Southern boy, my dad and even my 21 year old son would give any military guy a run for their money. My son and I have friends, family and a heap of church members who served and are serving and they'd tell you the same thing: "....those boys sho can shoot..." True, most of them are Southerners except for a few smart yankees who moved down here and LOVE the South but the yanks will even tell you the same thing. Why, those yanks will even tell you that they are better shots and simply BETTER all around than ever....so it must be in the Southern air or something. I suspect it'll even cure obnoxiousness.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 02:02 PM

Takin a life, whether two legged or four legged, involves adrenaline, unless yur a charlie manson or dahmer type. Yeah, it's different when they can shoot back, but the bottom line is, you gotta control your emotions and your heartbeat. A sudden rush of adrenaline can work both ways, it can give you a boost, or it can also bring you to your knees. Control your emotions, or your emotions control you!!! Just so ya know, I sometimes have trouble with that!!!

I've hunted dang near everything there is to hunt on this planet, and been hunted by most of them to.

There's some damn big jungle cats down in Columbia and let me tell you , when you're humpin through the jungle and you can sense one is somewhere behind you, and that YOU are the prey. The adrenaline can get pretty high, but who here thinks that police officer had every experienced anything like that?

grannyhawkins

09-28-2014, 02:08 PM

I've hunted dang near everything there is to hunt on this planet, and been hunted by most of them to.

There's some damn big jungle cats down in Columbia and let me tell you , when you're humpin through the jungle and you can sense one is somewhere behind you, and that YOU are the prey. The adrenaline can get pretty high, but who here thinks that police officer had every experienced anything like that?

It's definitely a different experience when you've dropped down a few links in the food chain!!!

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 02:09 PM

Yes, integrity goes a long way and I believe Gunny admitted to a misread about adrenaline. Something you could learn from when you say that you KNOW everything or are superior to another (whom you do not know).

You don't know me....you talk too much. I never said that anyone should be able to kill a man with a handgun in 1 - 2 shots.......missing a live target after much practice and training is something any shooter can identify with until they have had to confront a live target (aka human being ~ not a deer or moving target). And say.....getting back to earlier discussions that other members mentioned in bringing Andy's deputy into this.......didn't Barney Fife also refer to himself as a weapon. I suppose that would make you THE weapon of all weapons....Right?

I wasn't BORN2eggsshyofacarton but I'm not inferior to NO man so you can put that in your pipe and smoke it too. And don't put or add words to something I've not stated about this cop or in general. I believe the BEST can goof up just as the worst can luck up but training is training and this cop showed poor judgement/execution in safety, attitude and common SOUTHERN sense with a reaction that topped it all off with an inability to back up what he started. You see, he wasn't jumped or shot at without warning....the victim was. He sucked. PERIOD. that crappy performance may have been caused by a headache, hangover or adrenaline but bottom line is he tanked and his performance SUCKED. The poster talking about his obvious terrible shooting and mentality was merely speaking his mind without attacking anyone here. He or any good ole Southern boy did nothing to earn that empty rant of insults or the undergoing of your dubitable accounts.

And for the record, one doesn't have to be military to have trained (hand to hand or long, Long, LONG distance) to be able to meet a "need". If that need is to defend myself or my family.....you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm gonna do everything in my being to be that threat's worse day on earth. Our very founding is based on good ole boys rising to the occasion and kicking the greatest military of that time's @$$. Heck, same applies for the untrained VS trained during the War Between the States....except for the "win' thing. The South kicked @$$ so hard and for so long that we were exhausted, hungry and the North simply had more targets than we ammo.[/B]

I've been involved in circumstances that I wish I had not been in but I KNOW that I have it within me to carry out a suitable conclusion. In reality, NONE, not even the military, are (ARE) that guy to git-r-done until the time forces them to be. My nephew (an Iraq vet and cop of over 10 years) can tell you the same thing. He's a good shot....real good...but it was I (not the military) that showed him more of how to shoot well and safely. He'll tell you that himself and will also tell you that he's appreciative that I was a dad to him when he had no dad. He laughed on a number of occasions that all the military did was give him more rounds to practice than what we could afford at home. After all Clinton made ammo much higher and I can load only so many rounds (quite monotonous after a few hours at the loading table). Only my dad could afford 100's of rounds to practice or the time to load the rounds. The military may have taught him tactical and how to disassemble/reassemble a rifle but the shooting skills was already there. No, the military folks are like any other 2nd Amendment American who takes their responsibilities SERIOUSLY and seeks to be proficient. None are "that guy/gal" until that time comes and until that time comes, they are in training just like the rest of us.

Again, you don't know me and I'll not bore you with my lil' insignificant "stories" or what all I have in the way of training but I've had some of the VERY best to show me the ropes.....as well as the mat. I don't know you either which is why I would never tell someone that I KNOW I'm superior or that Southern guys can't shoot. I still won't because it is unbecoming and I simply don't know who is the better. We'll never KNOW, for certain, who is the superior when it comes to shooting, fighting, casting a net, flying a kite or sneaking in behind enemy lines and taking out an entire patrol (single handedly and with a toothpick) but it is more obvious to me who is the more obnoxious....and I'm fairly obnoxious when it is forced out of me (but I can back it up). I'm sure, by now, it is obvious that I took offense to your unwarranted attack on the SOUTH or folks you don't know cuz I dislike those who THINK they know everything and seem to think we "inferiors" are interested in knowing anything about blow hards. In fact, any one of us could spout off as you were so easy to do but those here that I hold high regard for have a little more reserve about themselves before making themselves look like a blow-hard.

I also take issue with your attack on law enforcement as (ticket pushers/writers). You do realize that many (if not most) law officers are military? Why of course you do....you KNOW everything. Something about your rants sound very peculiar but I'm not expert on military issues.....I'm just the guy who can SHOOT better than some of my military friends and family (including my nephew who served in Iraq and the streets of down-town Memphis). Look, if you served, I appreciate the military's service but that doesn't make a hill of beans to me when it comes to telling me what I know or don't know....when YOU don't KNOW. Sounds as IF you were POSSIBLY told that you didn't KNOW how to shoot until daddy boot camp taught you....and that may be true (FOR YOU) but many guys NORTH or SOUTH who knew [KNEW] how to shoot before daddy boot camp came along, simply shrugged and took all that nonsense in to get through training. Some probably helped train or keep it safe out there from greenies. You do realize that a portion of that jive is to break you down so that they can program you to be better suited for the military's interest/purpose? Right? No, just because they told you that and because you believe it doesn't make it so....just as your comments on cops being "ticket pushers/writers" doesn't make it gospel. You're truly obnoxious aren't you? I'd certainly like to see you and my nephew have a 'discussion' about his being a ticket pusher/writer. HA! I just don't know about that boy.....he was once so nice but now he's more like me. He don't push no bull on anyone and he don't take none. Perhaps he's becoming an old dog.....that'll bite if stepped on.

Interesting subject; SHOOTING. I don't have 1,000 "yards" to shoot but we do have 8, 100 yd slots and had any other Debate Policy member been a bit humorous or clever (even respectful) instead of obnoxious about what they KNOW and what we don't KNOW, a nice friendly conversation about bows, rifles, MMA or any bad experience under the influence of adrenaline, would have been enjoyed or jokingly jabbed between the two or group with a challenge to prove their skills. It would have ended in respectful comments and that would have been the extent of it. You see, we may disagree with other members but, for the most part, we are respectful until we are disrespected or lied to. You, SIR, were out of line and still are cuz you proclaim to KNOW everything and lil' ole inferior me knows nothing....but I've got your # and that is EVERYTHING.

I'd guarantee anyone reading this that this Southern boy, my dad and even my 21 year old son would give any military guy a run for their money. My son and I have friends, family and a heap of church members who served and are serving and they'd tell you the same thing: "....those boys sho can shoot..." True, most of them are Southerners except for a few smart yankees who moved down here and LOVE the South but the yanks will even tell you the same thing. Why, those yanks will even tell you that they are better shots and simply BETTER all around than ever....so it must be in the Southern air or something. I suspect it'll even cure obnoxiousness.

8 paragraphs to tell me you're good at shooting paper targets. Congratulations.

And I don't doubt that you are a good amateur shooter, but amateur is the key word, and amateurs have bad habits which must be retaught.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 02:14 PM

It's definitely a different experience when you've dropped down a few links in the food chain!!!

Oh, man is still the Apex hunter . that cat DID attack us, damn near killed one of our teammates before another team member killed it.

DLT

09-28-2014, 02:35 PM

I can't believe how many times the cop fired at that guy point blank and the guy was still lucid and talking. Either most of the bullets missed or they are small caliber.

It's good to see the cop pay for being too aggressive ... don't know enough about the officer to determine if he had been in this situation before. Now I know why they say to always move your hands slowly.

The guy didn't "dive" into the car as the cop claimed. It looked like he reasonably went to reach in for his wallet or papers. The cop over-reacted. Some people just are not cut out to BE police. This was one example of that.

In THIS instances, the race-baiters probably have a case to make....since if it had been a white guy or even a woman, I doubt that the cop would have reacted the same way. But who knows?

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 02:50 PM

The guy didn't "dive" into the car as the cop claimed. It looked like he reasonably went to reach in for his wallet or papers. The cop over-reacted. Some people just are not cut out to BE police. This was one example of that.

In THIS instances, the race-baiters probably have a case to make....since if it had been a white guy or even a woman, I doubt that the cop would have reacted the same way. But who knows?

That race baiting shit is so lame.

Do they ever stop to think there MIGHT be an actual reason that cops don't give blacks the same benefit of the doubt they would give whites?

Hell, they teach that in the Army. Come to think of it, the FBI has an entire unit that profiles.

DLT

09-28-2014, 02:54 PM

That race baiting shit is so lame.

Do they ever stop to think there MIGHT be an actual reason that cops don't give blacks the same benefit of the doubt they would give whites?

Hell, they teach that in the Army. Come to think of it, the FBI has an entire unit that profiles.

Well....you know......to leftists, profiling is only evil and racist if or when it's not a leftist doing the profiling. Case in point: IRS/Lois Lerner targeting of conservative "sounding" 501(c)(4) apps.

grannyhawkins

09-28-2014, 03:52 PM

Those that enforce our laws are on the front lines of an increasingly unstable minority populace and they continue to pay the price for the deterioration of our society!!!

6396
http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2014?ref=sidebar

Gunny

09-28-2014, 03:55 PM

8 paragraphs to tell me you're good at shooting paper targets. Congratulations.

And I don't doubt that you are a good amateur shooter, but amateur is the key word, and amateurs have bad habits which must be retaught.

Red state ...

I'll tell you the same thing I told rev ...

Stop posting a wall of words. Cut to the chase. Like this:

Ever been in a firefight? Combat situation? Where you had your finger on the trigger and you had to play God? If you haven't, you have no say in this.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 04:14 PM

Red state ...

I'll tell you the same thing I told rev ...

Stop posting a wall of words. Cut to the chase. Like this:

Ever been in a firefight? Combat situation? Where you had your finger on the trigger and you had to play God? If you haven't, you have no say in this.

One of the schools I went to third week in they had us climb a 200 foot water tower and lay on our backs and with rifle extended over our head so that we were shooting upside down and behind us . Had 3 rounds to hit a target that was traversing a 20 yard wide field 500 yards away. If you didn't hit that target within 3 rounds you went home.

One shot one kill baby!!

grannyhawkins

09-28-2014, 04:22 PM

One of the schools I went to third week in they had us climb a 200 foot water tower and lay on our backs and with rifle extended over our head so that we were shooting upside down and behind us . Had 3 rounds to hit a target that was traversing a 20 yard wide field 500 yards away. If you didn't hit that target within 3 rounds you went home.

One shot one kill baby!!

Believe it or not, I had ta climb a 200 foot grain elevator, with no cage, with tools in my back pocket, 2 weeks after havin knee surgery, to manipulate some man lift controls, to get a person out of the man lift!!!

One climb no casualties baby!!!

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 04:33 PM

Believe it or not, I had ta climb a 200 foot grain elevator, with no cage, with tools in my back pocket, 2 weeks after havin knee surgery, to manipulate some man lift controls, to get a person out of the man lift!!!

One climb no casualties baby!!!

Glad to hear you got your man (out safely)

red state

09-28-2014, 08:09 PM

Red state ...

I'll tell you the same thing I told rev ...

Stop posting a wall of words. Cut to the chase. Like this:

Ever been in a firefight? Combat situation? Where you had your finger on the trigger and you had to play God? If you haven't, you have no say in this.

So, if something like 'cuttin' to the chase' is what you're after....Alright, GUNNY, here's cuttin' to the quick: you tell me how or when to post about as much as I'd tell you to actually read a great post such as the one REV posted. Truth be told, I really don't care what you read, so if you don't like thorough posts.....skip over it and stick with the one or two liners. Of course, that's just a suggestion.....far be it from this inferior Southern boy to TELL you anything. ~ONE PARAGRAPH~

*NOTE: U don't have to read any further.....

If you're going to ban or have me banned for defending myself or calling it like I see it.....let me know. I like this site too much but not so much that I won't man up. I'll simply ignore the blow hard from now own cuz he or his lame SUPERIORITY isn't worth my time or getting banned. 'I'll SUGGEST' you what. from now own, why don't we all break out the ole: "WALL OF WORDS" when ANYONE posts over three paragraphs.

Is that cutting to the chase good enough or should I have shortened it? I initially considered a short one when someone LIKE Mr. Superior spouts off about something as dubitable, [taking out an enemy at 2,000 meters with a sling shot] and how nobody knows how to shoot until they've had some Daddy Bootcamp baby sit them. There are more than a few who STILL can't shoot for squat and they're straight outta training and duty. And to assume that cops should stick with ticket writing instead of committing to training they have, especially when many have actually served the military (like my nephew whom I can still out shoot) is silly at best. I get the "experienced" who have actually shot someone......no doubt. That still doesn't get around the fact that this 'experience' can also bite some in the butt because they haven't gotten over the first experience and freeze.

Yeah, in SHORT, Mr. SUPERIOR deserved the post below more cuz he ain't foolin' anybody and a blowhard isn't worth the effort in responding with anything other than this:
:bsflag:Even if he has served....he don't cut mustard with me when I get the "I'm superior" crap....and I'll MENTION to you the same thing if that is how you feel. Of course, you'll listen to me about as much as I'll stand by and take being called inferior FROM ANY MAN who doesn't KNOW anything if he believes the crap he spewed.

red state

09-28-2014, 08:15 PM

Ok

wait a minute.

so the man is out the door of the car when the cop BACKS_UPS and hops out of the car ask for the guys license.
the man looks a bit startled but immediately tries to OBEY checks his pants then turns .. to get his license... a bit to quickly .. ok maybe... but do "civilians" get the excuse of Adrenaline when a cop suddenly jumps out of the car with his hand on his gun.
Yep, IMO he had to have gun out or his hand on it Unless the cop is marshal Dillon I don't know how he got his gun unholstered so quickly to fire.

Then the Cops SCREAMS "GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!" So now If the guy moves quickly to obey that Order he's wrong, If he moves to slowly he's wrong.
It's a no win situation for the civilian.
move to slow your wrong, move to fast your wrong, talk to soft your wrong, to loud your wrong. don't watch enough cops shows with police behaving badly and nervous .. your wrong.

Aren't the police suppose to be the ones with the training?
are 'civilians" required to train for police stops now or are they at fault in an stop gone wrong?

Whenever a cops pulls over someone the citizen is the one in most danger.
cops always have guns, sticks, cuffs, often tasers and martial arts training and a gang of back-up.
Cops want to go home safe, so do 99% of the people they pull over FOR SEAT BELT INFRACTIONS.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Born2DecadesLate http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=706505#post706505)
....
...Personally I wouldn't' have shot the guy, I would punched him in the face....
.

So why exactly would you "punch him the face"?
I'm not sure how you conclude you have authority here for that.
please enlighten us to proper police procedure for the crime here that calls for a punch in the face?

I'm glad the cops off the force, and up on charges. maybe it''l be a wake up call to other cops not to be such --holes.
But i wonder if it doesn't just make some more bitter an angry at the people they are suppose to protect and serve.

the cop went home healthy the innocent guy went to the hospital could have been the grave but it wasn't for lack of the cop trying to send hm there.

if some cops feel the job is to dangerous they should quit rather than take on the motto 'shot 1st ask questions later'.

Last edited by revelarts; Today at 05:07 PM.

Man! that was an outstanding rebuttal! Facts are facts and in this case, you saw them through seamlessly. If I could, I would have left 10 reps for this one!!!

There was a poster who referred to your post as crap and wanted a short version. I truly don't see how you could have respectfully made it any shorter because you presented the facts and touched on the misconceptions or accusations others had made to blame the victim and not hold the so-called "TRAINED" Law officer. Adrenaline is one thing but if one has proper training, are fit for the job mentally and physically and/or experience, adrenaline is just a factor to contend with, get over it and overcome any obstacle to resolve the situation.

The cop was wrong, Wrong, WRONG and I can't see any reason to defend him in any hypothetical scenario. You elegantly put it that the guy was already out of the car, the cop backed up abruptly, jumped out (probably gun in hand or hand on gun), gave an order to which the victim followed that order without question or hesitation, was nervous UNDOUBTEDLY and adrenaline caused this untrained CIVILIAN to move a bit to quickly in following the order. He was then to get out of the vehicle to which the victim probably had little to no time to OR opportunity to respond before the shots started ringing out.....cuz they seemed to be on there way no matter what when he went to get his ID. I don't see what you said as crap at all....on the contrary. In fact, I have never regarded FACT as crap. Now your take on the other video.....I'm not sure about. That guy seemed to me (and I don't profess to KNOW everything).....but seemed to be acting inappropriately with a very realistic looking gun. Still, should he not have heard POLICE! first?

We could go on and on about this stuff cuz stuff happens.....just don't be that guy on either side and if you are those types.....please stop and THINK before you go all huffed and puffed or place yourself in unnecessary situations.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 08:23 PM

So, if something like 'cuttin' to the chase' is what you're after....Alright, GUNNY, here's cuttin' to the quick: you tell me how or when to post about as much as I'd tell you to actually read a great post such as the one REV posted. Truth be told, I really don't care what you read, so if you don't like thorough posts.....skip over it and stick with the one or two liners. Of course, that's just a suggestion.....far be it from this inferior Southern boy to TELL you anything. ~ONE PARAGRAPH~

*NOTE: U don't have to read any further.....

If you're going to ban or have me banned for defending myself or calling it like I see it.....let me know. I like this site too much but not so much that I won't man up. I'll simply ignore the blow hard from now own cuz he or his lame SUPERIORITY isn't worth my time or getting banned. 'I'll SUGGEST' you what. from now own, why don't we all break out the ole: "WALL OF WORDS" when ANYONE posts over three paragraphs.

Is that cutting to the chase good enough or should I have shortened it? I initially considered a short one when someone LIKE Mr. Superior spouts off about something as dubitable, [taking out an enemy at 2,000 meters with a sling shot] and how nobody knows how to shoot until they've had some Daddy Bootcamp baby sit them. There are more than a few who STILL can't shoot for squat and they're straight outta training and duty. And to assume that cops should stick with ticket writing instead of committing to training they have, especially when many have actually served the military (like my nephew whom I can still out shoot) is silly at best. I get the "experienced" who have actually shot someone......no doubt. That still doesn't get around the fact that this 'experience' can also bite some in the butt because they haven't gotten over the first experience and freeze.

Yeah, in SHORT, Mr. SUPERIOR deserved the post below more cuz he ain't foolin' anybody and a blowhard isn't worth the effort in responding with anything other than this:
:bsflag:Even if he has served....he don't cut mustard with me when I get the "I'm superior" crap....and I'll MENTION to you the same thing if that is how you feel. Of course, you'll listen to me about as much as I'll stand by and take being called inferior FROM ANY MAN who doesn't KNOW anything if he believes the crap he spewed.

I'm sorry that the knowledge that a man who trained since he was 18 years old to kill people is a superior shooter than you makes you feel like an inferior person. You are not an inferior person simply because I can outshoot you. You are simply an inferior marksman.

I mean , I don't know what you do for a living, but I have to assume that you are better at it than I would be, even if I do have some knowledge of whatever it is.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-28-2014, 08:43 PM

Red state ...

I'll tell you the same thing I told rev ...

Stop posting a wall of words. Cut to the chase. Like this:

Ever been in a firefight? Combat situation? Where you had your finger on the trigger and you had to play God? If you haven't, you have no say in this.
If member breaks no rule, they post as they wish, right?
nuff said..
Hope this is short nuff for you gunny...

If you haven't, you have no say in this.
^^^^^^^^^^^ So only combat vets can reply to this thread?

I think Jim needs to add that to his forum rules.. I seem to have missed it myself..----Tyr

red state

09-28-2014, 08:47 PM

I'm sorry that the knowledge that a man who trained since he was 18 years old to kill people is a superior shooter than you makes you feel like an inferior person. You are not an inferior person simply because I can outshoot you. You are simply an inferior marksman.

I mean , I don't know what you do for a living, but I have to assume that you are better at it than I would be, even if I do have some knowledge of whatever it is.

Look, I don't ASSUME that you're lesser than me about ANYTHING cuz I don't know you but I do assume to know BS when I here it. Even IF you are what you say you are or have done what you say you've done....it sounds blow-hard-ish. And let this sink in: I don't feel inferior to any MAN and a REAL man will not take kindly to being called inferior. I'd rather read crap like that from a liberal rather than from one who is supposed to be one of my own. Does that make sense on how this got (JUMPED) out of the bag?

red state

09-28-2014, 08:51 PM

If member breaks no rule, they post as they wish, right?
nuff said..
Hope this is short nuff for you gunny...

^^^^^^^^^^^ So only combat vets can reply to this thread?

I think Jim needs to add that to his forum rules.. I seem to have missed it myself..----Tyr

You know, that is the second time Gunny has responded to me in such way YET I still respect and like the guy and I'll still "LIKE" his posts when he posts outstanding comments but I assume that he will respect me and not ignore me simply because we differ in opinion. I'm not calling any names but there's a poster here that I have a WORLD of respect for but I'll not push a certain subject cuz I know where he stands on that topic and he knows where I stand. Still, he has yet to say anything disrespectful of my beliefs and I appreciate and admire him even more for it.

red state

09-28-2014, 09:03 PM

Talk about your "one shot, one kill".......You don't KNOW how to shoot until you've worked at BOEING.

CHECK IT OUT! I knew snipers have used lasers for decades now to 'direct' air missiles to targets but this is SICK.....forget about the sniper now pulling a trigger. Now the sniper CLICKS a mouse.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/ic/des/hel_md_0514_vid.html

Gunny

09-28-2014, 09:03 PM

So, if something like 'cuttin' to the chase' is what you're after....Alright, GUNNY, here's cuttin' to the quick: you tell me how or when to post about as much as I'd tell you to actually read a great post such as the one REV posted. Truth be told, I really don't care what you read, so if you don't like thorough posts.....skip over it and stick with the one or two liners. Of course, that's just a suggestion.....far be it from this inferior Southern boy to TELL you anything. ~ONE PARAGRAPH~

*NOTE: U don't have to read any further.....

If you're going to ban or have me banned for defending myself or calling it like I see it.....let me know. I like this site too much but not so much that I won't man up. I'll simply ignore the blow hard from now own cuz he or his lame SUPERIORITY isn't worth my time or getting banned. 'I'll SUGGEST' you what. from now own, why don't we all break out the ole: "WALL OF WORDS" when ANYONE posts over three paragraphs.

Is that cutting to the chase good enough or should I have shortened it? I initially considered a short one when someone LIKE Mr. Superior spouts off about something as dubitable, [taking out an enemy at 2,000 meters with a sling shot] and how nobody knows how to shoot until they've had some Daddy Bootcamp baby sit them. There are more than a few who STILL can't shoot for squat and they're straight outta training and duty. And to assume that cops should stick with ticket writing instead of committing to training they have, especially when many have actually served the military (like my nephew whom I can still out shoot) is silly at best. I get the "experienced" who have actually shot someone......no doubt. That still doesn't get around the fact that this 'experience' can also bite some in the butt because they haven't gotten over the first experience and freeze.

Yeah, in SHORT, Mr. SUPERIOR deserved the post below more cuz he ain't foolin' anybody and a blowhard isn't worth the effort in responding with anything other than this:
:bsflag:Even if he has served....he don't cut mustard with me when I get the "I'm superior" crap....and I'll MENTION to you the same thing if that is how you feel. Of course, you'll listen to me about as much as I'll stand by and take being called inferior FROM ANY MAN who doesn't KNOW anything if he believes the crap he spewed.

THIS is "cutting to the chase"? Geez.

The military teaches you to shoot, and to shoot correctly. That's a fact. It's not up to whether or not you want to believe it. The worst shooters are people who "already know how to shoot". That's a fact too.

Sorry if you don't like it, and I'm not denigrating you nor your abilities. Chill, huh? My only comment to you is I'm old, cranky, wear reading glasses and have ADD. I ain't reading all that junk. ;)

red state

09-28-2014, 09:08 PM

We possibly agree to disagree then.....makes neither of us RIGHT or wrong and I'll stand by that. As for the problems.....sorry 'bout all of that but simply place me on ignore or skip over my more lengthy posts. I don't tell you how to do this or that and I don't tell you that I'm the law on any particular subject. In that regard, we are ALL cranky, old and constipated. HA!!!!

red state

09-28-2014, 09:12 PM

And YES, we are both Steelers fans......not so much these days as much as I was back in the DYNASTY period (before the BEAR period). I would have preferred to debate issues not get all hussy cuz some newbie claimed to be superior...would have rather discussed his BEST shots and possibly open a thread on some of my best shots (archery or otherwise).

Shot really piss-poor today cuz my eyes are also failing (seriously).

red state

09-28-2014, 09:18 PM

GUNNY wrote: "The military teaches you to shoot, and to shoot correctly."

You see.....I agree with that part of what yous said 110% nobody could argue that......I disagree when I'm told I'm inferior or do not know how to shoot (SIMPLY because I've not served the military). As for shooting someone.....I have not but I have been shot, rolled over 5 times, fallen, stabbed/cut and best friends with a MMA cop trainer who has dished out about as much injury as the above....and has gotten some in return. HA!!!! Yep, I out shoot him and my nephew. BIG TIME.......until my eyes started failing me. Being blind makes for a good grappler tho.

CRAP! Just too much to be said in one lil' spot. Now I'm posting too much via various posts. Jim, you need to do like other sites and limit us to two posts in a row. Thanks.

Gunny

09-28-2014, 09:25 PM

Nice job. You fuckers want to run anyone else off so you can get back to your same old stale-ass shit?

Jesus f-ing Christ.

Gunny

09-28-2014, 09:35 PM

If member breaks no rule, they post as they wish, right?
nuff said..
Hope this is short nuff for you gunny...

^^^^^^^^^^^ So only combat vets can reply to this thread?

I think Jim needs to add that to his forum rules.. I seem to have missed it myself..----Tyr

Nah. I think y'all should find someone else to bore to death before you gang up like pack of dogs and run them off for having an opinion.

How lame.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-28-2014, 10:14 PM

Nah. I think y'all should find someone else to bore to death before you gang up like pack of dogs and run them off for having an opinion.

How lame.
I am one person not a y'all.
The man stated that he had 5 knife kills, shoots 2 inch groupings at 3,280 feet distance with a 50 cal. -all day long.
If that is not tall talk I've never seen any. Those were not opinions on a thread topic .. Those were him stating his abilities and I can tell you right now I have several friends that are top competition shooters that say that's utter rubbish, two inch groupings all day long at 3,280 feet! All three said it was a damn lie.
I questioned his tale tales not a damn thing about whether he ever served or not.
If you invited him here then good but that still doesn't mean I'll swallow that rot about the knife kills, the 2 inch groups , etc. HE HAS MADE OTHER RIDICULOUS CLAIMS SINCE BUT WHY BOTHER DISCUSSING THEM?
Apparently you are saying we must believe or else we are losers etc.
I do not believe something on demand from any man alive. I believe when I think is true and I do not believe any of that spill he has been flipping.
I knew two very fine war vets(one Korean-Marine, the other Vietnam-Army) and it took me over 16 years to get even half of the info out of them combined that this guy has tossed out in just two days. And none of theirs was high flying , glory grabbing bullshit..
This ole boy knows a crap talker when he hears one or reads one .
He is free to put me on ignore because I am adding him the moment after I post this.
You believe whatever you like but know this -- no man alive gets to tell me what to believe.
I have lived 45 years standing on that principle(got the scars to prove it) and nobody has ever changed it. A fact.. -Tyr

Gunny

09-28-2014, 10:16 PM

I am one person not a y'all.
The man stated that he had 5 knife kills, shoots 2 inch groupings at 3,280 feet distance with a 50 cal. -all day long.
If that is not tall talk I've never seen any. Those were not opinions on a thread topic .. Those were him stating his abilities and I can tell you right now I have several friends that are top competition shooters that say that's utter rubbish, two inch groupings all day long at 3,280 feet! All three said it was a damn lie.
I questioned his tale tales not a damn thing about whether he ever served or not.
If you invited him here then good but that still doesn't mean I'll swallow that rot about the knife kills, the 2 inch groups , etc. HE HAS MADE OTHER RIDICULOUS CLAIMS SINCE BUT WHY BOTHER DISCUSSING THEM?
Apparently you are saying we must believe or else we are losers etc.
I do not believe something on demand from any man alive. I believe when I think is true and I do not believe any of that spill he has been flipping.
I knew two very fine war vets(one Korean-Marine, the other Vietnam-Army) and it took me over 16 years to get even half of the info out of them combined that this guy has tossed out in just two days. And none of theirs was high flying , glory grabbing bullshit..
This ole boy knows a crap talker when he hears one or reads one .
He is free to put me on ignore because I am adding him the moment after I post this.
You believe whatever you like but know this -- no man alive gets to tell me what to believe.
I have lived 45 years standing on that principle(got the scars to prove it) and nobody has ever changed it. A fact.. -Tyr

In other words, you're combating what you call "tall talk" with "tall talk"?

And I just bet you got 45 years of not changing your mind under your belt. That's neither a revelation nor surprising.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

09-28-2014, 10:30 PM

In other words, you're combating what you call "tall talk" with "tall talk"?

And I just bet you got 45 years of not changing your mind under your belt. That's neither a revelation nor surprising.

Your opinion on my standing on my principles does not shock me . You spent your career ordering men that could not challenge anything you said. Then you tried to tell me not to doubt what this fraud is saying. Hoss, aint a man alive can make me do a thing like that.. and it doesn't matter what any guy ever did, or trained to do. I simply do not play that.
Feel free to put me on ignore if you wish . It's not like I care, since your position is I have no right to doubt the man or to disagree with him because he is a new member. New or old member doesn't matter to me I'll not swallow such lies willingly or forcibly either.
You are not now exchanging words with a recruit or a mere young boy..
Should I have jumped your ass if you doubted some tall tales by a member here I suspect that you'd have went ballistic.
Yet all I've ever shown you is respect.
You do not have to return that respect but you also can not tell me what to believe and get to see me obey that..
I don't play that..-Tyr
.

Gunny

09-28-2014, 10:35 PM

YOU WIN GUNNY. YOU WIN. Anything you say. Too bad you feel such a need to be so pissed off here. I honestly thought, at first. Being veterans gave us more than something to be proud of, and in common.
I still have trouble understanding WHY you feel such a need to use the Name calling. Most Senior NCO's I have met, and Known, NEVER let themselves be seen as out of control.

I apologize for making you so pissed off for whatever reasons you have listed here.

Forgive me for thinking I was able to have a civil conversation on this forum. Please?

Out of control? Not even close. Your newby-ness is showing once again. Ask Jim or abbey or D or NT or shadow what I'm like when I'm out of control. They've all seen it first hand. You're not having a civil conversation when you start questioning people's service. It's a personal attack and you know it, so you can quit the innocent act. I ain't buying.

I don't care what he did. He posts. You aren't the only person on this board.

Born2DecadesLate

09-28-2014, 11:22 PM

Your opinion on my standing on my principles does not shock me . You spent your career ordering men that could not challenge anything you said. Then you tried to tell me not to doubt what this fraud is saying. Hoss, aint a man alive can make me do a thing like that.. and it doesn't matter what any guy ever did, or trained to do. I simply do not play that.
Feel free to put me on ignore if you wish . It's not like I care, since your position is I have no right to doubt the man or to disagree with him because he is a new member. New or old member doesn't matter to me I'll not swallow such lies willingly or forcibly either.
You are not now exchanging words with a recruit or a mere young boy..
Should I have jumped your ass if you doubted some tall tales by a member here I suspect that you'd have went ballistic.
Yet all I've ever shown you is respect.
You do not have to return that respect but you also can not tell me what to believe and get to see me obey that..
I don't play that..-Tyr
.

You're merely upset because I made the comment about the Army having to teach southern boys how to shoot. I've of course said nothing that would lead one to believe I'm "stealing valor"

I'm sorry the fact hurts your feelings, but it's a known fact. guys who come into basic training thinking they know how to shoot take longer to teach than guys who have never fired a weapon, because bad habits have to be broke before they can be taught.

And I promise you have bad habits as a shooter. They may not prevent you from being a good amateur shooter, but the Army doesn't do amateur shooter.

Jeff

09-29-2014, 07:06 AM

I have seen this for the last few days on FB and although it is a shame the guy got shot ( and hopefully he will heal quickly ) it happens, we can all sit and say how the cop was wrong ( and in this case he was ) but I know the area where this happened and it is a high crime area, that doesn't make it OK but like others I have seen post maybe the got that got shot instead of reaching quickly into the car should of done ( like most ) and explained what he was doing. Myself I would of told the cop where my lisc. was and waited for him, but with that said no the guy didn't deserve to be shot, but the cop doesn't deserve to by hung either, bottom line I hope the guy shot heals quickly.

fj1200

09-29-2014, 09:58 AM

Those that enforce our laws are on the front lines of an increasingly unstable poverty stricken, etc. populace and they continue to pay the price for the deterioration of our society!!!

Close. ;)

Bilgerat

09-29-2014, 01:17 PM

This guy moved VERY quickly to retrieve his license. I'm not saying he was wrong, just that's what I saw. I would have supported a tasing had the cop done so.

I had an incident while doing a law enforcement boarding back in the 80's

We were given "credible" information (from the local PD) that a really bad individual was on board a cabin cruiser in the harbor. At the time, there had been a shooting of a LEO in NJ and the local PD was convinced that one of the shooters was on board.

The boarding started easy enough, but when I asked the owner/operator for identification he dropped into the lower cabin and reached into a small locker. I dove after him, leaving my back up to contain the others in the cabin and drew my 45.

He responded to my commands to remove his hand slowly, the incident deescalated and the boarding was completed.

All of the people on board were ID cleared and apologies were made.

The end of the story, he was reaching for his wallet but how was I to know? I believe that if I had a "taser" I would have most certainly used it, but that equipment was not available at the time.

grannyhawkins

09-29-2014, 06:55 PM

You're merely upset because I made the comment about the Army having to teach southern boys how to shoot. I've of course said nothing that would lead one to believe I'm "stealing valor"

I'm sorry the fact hurts your feelings, but it's a known fact. guys who come into basic training thinking they know how to shoot take longer to teach than guys who have never fired a weapon, because bad habits have to be broke before they can be taught.

And I promise you have bad habits as a shooter. They may not prevent you from being a good amateur shooter, but the Army doesn't do amateur shooter.

Olympic Biathletes are trained to shoot after doin a 10 or 20K on skis or just runnin an Sgt. Alvin C. York prolly taught the Army how ta shoot!!! Shootin ain't all that hard, it sure as hail ain't rocket science, just takes practice and when it comes to puttin food on the table, you learn right quick, how to control your respiration, heartbeat an just squeeze. I learned on groundhogs an a single shot .22, a quick whistle in the spring is there matin call an they pop their little heads outta the hole an you head shootem, free hand at 200 yards, with open sights, all day long. In fact there was a bounty on em at one time, tearin up cattle an implements, all you needed was the tail an the rest was either chicken fried or stewed.

I've shot deer onna dead run, right though the eye, at 50 yards, with a scoped .243, course my BILaws, FIL had gut shot it an I tole ole Ed, ta just hold on a bit an it'll lay down, sure enough, after about 10 minutes, I tole Ed ta show me where he last saw it and we started lookin around and sure enough, the poor critter got up and started runnin, I think the good Lord helped me that day to put him down cleanly. Not bad for a lass that just finished field dressin her own buck, woodint ya say???

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 07:04 PM

Olympic Biathletes are trained to shoot after doin a 10 or 20K on skis or just runnin an Sgt. Alvin C. York prolly taught the Army how ta shoot!!! Shootin ain't all that hard, it sure as hail ain't rocket science, just takes practice and when it comes to puttin food on the table, you learn right quick, how to control your respiration, heartbeat an just squeeze. I learned on groundhogs an a single shot .22, a quick whistle in the spring is there matin call an they pop their little heads outta the hole an you head shootem, free hand at 200 yards, with open sights, all day long. In fact there was a bounty on em at one time, tearin up cattle an implements, all you needed was the tail an the rest was either chicken fried or stewed.

I've shot deer onna dead run, right though the eye, at 50 yards, with a scoped .243, course my BILaws, FIL had gut shot it an I tole ole Ed, ta just hold on a bit an it'll lay down, sure enough, after about 10 minutes, I tole Ed ta show me where he last saw it and we started lookin around and sure enough, the poor critter got up and started runnin, I think the good Lord helped me that day to put him down cleanly. Not bad for a lass that just finished field dressin her own buck, woodint ya say???

Not bad , for an amateur.

But completely unrelated to a 20 second split second decision to fire a handgun at another human being, and the consequences of those choices.

grannyhawkins

09-29-2014, 07:51 PM

Not bad , for an amateur.

But completely unrelated to a 20 second split second decision to fire a handgun at another human being, and the consequences of those choices.

Those we've tasked to enforce our laws, are on the front lines of a volatile citizenry these days and they've paid dearly throughout their ranks because of it. Kinda like our soldier boys and girls, bein tasked to fight the enemy with one hand tied behind their backs, but neither has anything to do with a .50bmg.

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 07:54 PM

Those we've tasked to enforce our laws, are on the front lines of a volatile citizenry these days and they've paid dearly throughout their ranks because of it. Kinda like our soldier boys and girls, bein tasked to fight the enemy with one hand tied behind their backs, but neither has anything to do with a .50bmg.

I agree, I only brought it up to point out the difference in practice shooting and actually shooting at another human being.