Obama to send 475 additional troops to Iraq

[jimnyc]

I think troops should never have been removed. I think we should now drop the strongest bombs we have on these people and anywhere within 50 miles, make sure they are ALL gone.

Now, with that said - let's wait for the liberals to fill up the interwebs with their complaints about starting crap if the homeland is not in danger. You will see below, ISIS is no threat to the homeland. So wasn't the liberal argument way back when that we should NEVER start a war unless we are directly threatened and in danger? <---- of course I still agree with bombing these fuckers, just can't wait to start counting the hypocrites!

Oh, and can we expect code pink and all the other nuts to be out in full force today? Marching all around the WH, the Capitol and perhaps various cities?


Obama to send 475 additional troops to Iraq

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama is sending 475 more U.S. troops into Iraq to supplement an existing American military presence that is helping Iraqi security forces battle Islamic State militants and secure diplomatic facilities.

Obama was announcing the additional forces Wednesday as part of an expanded offensive against the Islamic State group in Iraq and in Syria.

The new troops would join more than 1,000 U.S. military personnel in Iraq and would be embedded with Iraqi security forces and help identify targets for U.S. military airstrikes against the extremist group.

The U.S. already has more than 750 U.S. military personnel supporting diplomatic security at facilities in Baghdad and nearly 300 at joint operating centers in Baghdad and Irbil (ur-BEEL').

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_IRAQ_TROOPS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-10-21-03-18


Officials: No threat of Islamic State attack in US

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Islamic State group doesn't pose an immediate threat of an attack in the United States, senior U.S. officials testified Wednesday, but warned that the danger from the militants is spreading beyond the Middle East to Europe and other parts of the world.

They have the ability to attack American targets overseas with little or no warning, the officials said.

Francis Taylor, the Homeland Security Department's undersecretary for intelligence and analysis, said the Sunni extremist fighters in Iraq and Syria have capabilities most terrorist organizations don't possess. But he said his department is currently unaware of any credible threat to the U.S. homeland from the Islamic State.

Testifying alongside Taylor before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, Nicholas Rasmussen, deputy director of the National Counterterrorism Center, said attacks in France and Belgium by Europeans who've fought with the group show its expanding ambitions and reach.

"The United States is not immune," Rasmussen warned. If the militants are left unchecked, he said, the threat will grow to all states the group considers "apostate" — or those which reject what it believes to be the true faith. The U.S. would be one of these, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/official-islamic-state-no-threat-attack-us-142303531--politics.html

[Gunny]

I think troops should never have been removed. I think we should now drop the strongest bombs we have on these people and anywhere within 50 miles, make sure they are ALL gone.

Now, with that said - let's wait for the liberals to fill up the interwebs with their complaints about starting crap if the homeland is not in danger. You will see below, ISIS is no threat to the homeland. So wasn't the liberal argument way back when that we should NEVER start a war unless we are directly threatened and in danger? <---- of course I still agree with bombing these fuckers, just can't wait to start counting the hypocrites!

Oh, and can we expect code pink and all the other nuts to be out in full force today? Marching all around the WH, the Capitol and perhaps various cities?



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_IRAQ_TROOPS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-10-21-03-18



http://news.yahoo.com/official-islamic-state-no-threat-attack-us-142303531--politics.html

He's an idiot. I guess I shouldn't wonder anymore if he thinks before he opens his mouth. Last night he was proclaiming "no ground troops". What a joke. :laugh:

[Jeff]

Pretty soon we will have all the troops back, Obama just wanted to give them a little vacation, what a idiot, The Generals running the show back then advised not to withdraw troops as did anyone with a brain.

[Gunny]

Pretty soon we will have all the troops back, Obama just wanted to give them a little vacation, what a idiot, The Generals running the show back then advised not to withdraw troops as did anyone with a brain.

It WAS stupid to withdraw too soon. I also noted that last night's speech was the shortest I think he's ever made. He wasn't extolling the virtues of taking other people's money.

[Jeff]

It WAS stupid to withdraw too soon. I also noted that last night's speech was the shortest I think he's ever made. He wasn't extolling the virtues of taking other people's money.

I have a feeling after November his speeches will keep getting shorter and shorter, as his fan base open there eyes and see the great change he brought and the lack of campaigning he will just slide into the night.

[Gunny]

I have a feeling after November his speeches will keep getting shorter and shorter, as his fan base open there eyes and see the great change he brought and the lack of campaigning he will just slide into the night.

He's not making either side happy right now. What does HE care? He's trying to slide into the night. Current world events are hampering his plan.

[revelarts]

We should have never have gone in the 1st place Bush was an idiot.
we should have never trained or armed ANY terrorist factions in the M,E or Afghanistan region for the past 40 years.
the ONLY reason they have arms is because we were/are there and our "friends" in Saudi Arabia and other M.E.countries passed on Arms (and men) to the Syrian rebels who became part of l Nusra and ISis, Plus we backed Libyan AQ that became part of Isis as well.

We and our "allies in the region" gave teeth to this boogie man.
it's dishonest and short sighted to think that a few U.S. troops are going to solve this quagmire.

Helping ASAD defeat them would make sense at this point but sending more US troops in is a ridiculous waste of more American lives and $$. Isis is a cancer, a gang not a nation state.
we still haven't learned that lesson. we think our army is the solution to every violent problem.

every problem is not a nail.

[jimnyc]

We should have never have gone in the 1st place Bush was an idiot.
we should have never trained or armed ANY terrorist factions in the M,E or Afghanistan region for the past 40 years.
the ONLY reason they have arms is because we were/are there and our "friends" in Saudi Arabia and other M.E.countries passed on Arms (and men) to the Syrian rebels who became part of l Nusra and ISis, Plus we backed Libyan AQ that became part of Isis as well.

We and our "allies in the region" gave teeth to this boogie man.
it's dishonest and short sighted to think that a few U.S. troops are going to solve this quagmire.

Helping ASAD defeat them would make sense at this point but sending more US troops in is a ridiculous waste of more American lives and $$. Isis is a cancer, a gang not a nation state.
we still haven't learned that lesson. we think our army is the solution to every violent problem.

every problem is not a nail.

Just for shits and giggles - assume for a moment that in 6 months from now, ISIS had infiltrated the US and pulls of something similar to 9/11, meaning a lot of deaths in a single incident/day. Is there any blame? Do we just chalk it up as bad luck? Do we ignore them out of the country and only concentrate on them should they make it here?

You imply that ISIS is some sort of myth, or fake creature. Have you not seen the thousands of innocent lives they have already taken? I assure you that their terror ways are real, and they aren't shy about it. We can debate about the past 40 years for another 40 years, but to ignore them would be a serious mistake. To withdraw away from them would be a serious mistake. They ARE following up on all of their promises thus far.

[revelarts]

Just for shits and giggles - assume for a moment that in 6 months from now, ISIS had infiltrated the US and pulls of something similar to 9/11, meaning a lot of deaths in a single incident/day. Is there any blame? Do we just chalk it up as bad luck? Do we ignore them out of the country and only concentrate on them should they make it here?

You imply that ISIS is some sort of myth, or fake creature. Have you not seen the thousands of innocent lives they have already taken? I assure you that their terror ways are real, and they aren't shy about it. We can debate about the past 40 years for another 40 years, but to ignore them would be a serious mistake. To withdraw away from them would be a serious mistake. They ARE following up on all of their promises thus far.

Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that China leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Iran leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that North Korea leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Russia leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Militia pulls another Oklahoma City...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the CheChen Terrorist pull another Boston...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Saudi i mean AQ Terrorist pull another 9/11...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Hamas Terrorist pull another... well something horrible in the U.S....


look we can live in fear and think we need to Bomb, send troops or nuke ever HINT of a threat to us if we want too.

a few months ago you and others had similar fevered advise about Iran's Nuke program.
sorry if i don't get on the band wagon that we've got to destroy everyone that doesn't look at the U.S and smile pretty.

Isis has done some horrible crap. and they are getting stronger,
But you NEVER addressed my point.
IS MORE military action in the region on our part the Solution Jim?
Does feeding more "moderate" rebels who eat hearts going to solve the problem?

I mentioned else where that what we need is to turn our INSANELY invasive and hulking spying apparatus on these clowns. They'd have NO secrets and we could pick them up as they get off the plane in LAX or Atlanta OR have interpol do it in Europe as they buy humus at the market if you can't bare the thought of them touching earth in the U.S.. But IMO sending in the Troops is a stupid IDEA.
We need to STARVE the region of Arms and Funds. we need to straiten the Saudi enablers out as well. without that we're in the same boat as Afghanistan where we PAY the Taliban to allow our supplies in. and allow them to grow poppies that fund the insurgents!

isn't that a train you want to get off of?
or do you want to ignore those moving parts and more and Just say RAH RAH for the military as they fly in to fight people funded, armed, supplied and manned by the Saudis and Others M.E. "friends"?

We aren't playing army in the backyard.

I'll Add this,
for the 1st time since 9/11 we have a REAL opportunity to actually win some support from the general Muslim population. They don't like Isis Either, they are the ones that are getting killed by these nuts. Moving with wisdom, stealth and some honest Justice MIGHT start to turn "hearts and minds" in our direction for a change.
If we care about that kinda thing anymore, Some people talk like they never want to be friends with the Muslim peoples. Somehow we made friends with "the animals" the "Japs" and the "Krauts" And we even do biz with Vietnam, and Russia (Well we did with Russia).

anyway don't let me put the threat in perspective.
In 6 months there could be SUN FLARE that could WIPE out the electrical Grid...
In 6 months an Earthquake could cause CA to fall into the ocean...
In 6 months Sea Levels could rise because of Global warming and drown the coast 100 miles in under 40 feet of water.
In 6 months EBOLA could wipe out 1/2 of the world population...

In 6 months... Insert real or imagined horror here add hot peppers.... then add knee jerk military response to taste.

[Gaffer]

A good democrat has to piecemeal his way into war. (see Johnson administration)

ISIS is nothing new, the administration has known about them for years. They were called al qaeda in iraq before they took the new name while hiding in syria. Before that they were saddams fahadeem (however it's spelled). It seems a few of the ISIS top leaders are former saddam goons, imagine that.

[revelarts]

A good democrat has to piecemeal his way into war. (see Johnson administration)

ISIS is nothing new, the administration has known about them for years. They were called al qaeda in iraq before they took the new name while hiding in syria. Before that they were saddams fahadeem (however it's spelled). It seems a few of the ISIS top leaders are former saddam goons, imagine that.

they also were some of the same "rebels" that Khadaffi was fighting and we supported
after they left Iraq to take a break from killing our troops there.

[NightTrain]

Rev, you can't starve ISIS of arms and funds. They've already been choked as far as legitimate channels go.

What you see over there right now is the direct result of not doing anything. That's why BamBam is finally waking up and realizing you have to deal with these animals or they only get stronger exponentially.

The head-in-the-sand pacifist approach to savages actively looking to kill innocents has to be met with force and eradicated. Otherwise it's a matter of time before you feel the sting of their bite, no matter how far away you are.

[jimnyc]

Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that China leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Iran leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that North Korea leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Russia leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Militia pulls another Oklahoma City...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the CheChen Terrorist pull another Boston...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Saudi i mean AQ Terrorist pull another 9/11...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Hamas Terrorist pull another... well something horrible in the U.S....

I didn't realize that all of these places were rapidly moving between countries, killing innocent after innocent, and threatening to take out the WH and kill America. But I get it, just ignore them, until it's too late. I'm THRILLED that someone like you is NEVER in charge of making ANY decisions.





a few months ago you and others had similar fevered advise about Iran's Nuke program.

Really? I stated that Iran wanted to come and hit the WH, and to destroy America? Can you link me to this LIE?


Isis has done some horrible crap. and they are getting stronger,
But you NEVER addressed my point.
IS MORE military action in the region on our part the Solution Jim?
Does feeding more "moderate" rebels who eat hearts going to solve the problem?

PLEASE link me to where I stated ANYTHING about arming rebels?


anyway don't let me put the threat in perspective.
In 6 months there could be SUN FLARE that could WIPE out the electrical Grid...
In 6 months an Earthquake could cause CA to fall into the ocean...
In 6 months Sea Levels could rise because of Global warming and drown the coast 100 miles in under 40 feet of water.
In 6 months EBOLA could wipe out 1/2 of the world population...

In 6 months... Insert real or imagined horror here.... then add knee jerk simple response to taste.

Sun flares aren't actively threatening us and killing innocents daily. Earthquakes are not terrorists. Ever heard the term apples and oranges? Because you just made the WORST cases of apples and oranges I have EVER seen. Global warming is bullshit. Ebola IS being hard fought, just not with weapons, as it's not threatening to hit us with weapons.

To think that ANYONE compares "knee jerk reactions" and compares ISIS to the crap you did.... Sorry, Rev, laughable.

Care to explain WHY you imply that ISIS is a bogeyman of sorts? They are FAR from that. Or did you toss that term out there not knowing what it means?

[jimnyc]

Rev, you can't starve ISIS of arms and funds. They've already been choked as far as legitimate channels go.

What you see over there right now is the direct result of not doing anything. That's why BamBam is finally waking up and realizing you have to deal with these animals or they only get stronger exponentially.

The head-in-the-sand pacifist approach to savages actively looking to kill innocents has to be met with force and eradicated. Otherwise it's a matter of time before you feel the sting of their bite, no matter how far away you are.

It would appear he thinks we should ignore ISIS, not our problem at all, and that it's not really that big of an issue anyway - just more excuses and such from governments, and that they don't really pose much of a threat. BTW, he said similar about AQ a LONG time back, that there were less than 200 of them in total and we had nothing to fear anymore. :)

[Gunny]

A good democrat has to piecemeal his way into war. (see Johnson administration)

ISIS is nothing new, the administration has known about them for years. They were called al qaeda in iraq before they took the new name while hiding in syria. Before that they were saddams fahadeem (however it's spelled). It seems a few of the ISIS top leaders are former saddam goons, imagine that.

I SO hate half-assing. He should be relieved of his duties as CinC. He's not competent enough to command.

[revelarts]

It would appear he thinks we should ignore ISIS, not our problem at all, and that it's not really that big of an issue anyway - just more excuses and such from governments, and that they don't really pose much of a threat. BTW, he said similar about AQ a LONG time back, that there were less than 200 of them in total and we had nothing to fear anymore. :)

to reflex you

SHOW ANY WHERE I SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IGNORING ISIS THATS A LIE!
SHOW ME WHER I SAID IT"S NOT OUR PROBLEM! LINK ME TO THIS LIE!!


but your right about me saying we SHOULD NOT FEAR AQ.
while all i hear from you and others since 9/11 is that the US should ALWAYS BE AFRAID.

[jimnyc]

to reflex you

SHOW ANY WHERE I SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IGNORING ISIS THATS A LIE!
SHOW ME WHER I SAID IT"S NOT OUR PROBLEM! LINK ME TO THIS LIE!!


but your right about me saying we SHOULD NOT FEAR AQ.
while all i hear from you and others since 9/11 is that the US should ALWAYS BE AFRAID.

You said they were a "boogie man". Do you know the term? You're saying that they are like a myth of sorts, and likely being used to keep people in line, or in a certain state. Meanwhile, the rest of the world sees the reality and the death these scum are leaving in their wake.

I see ISIS as a serious threat, to MANY nations - as does the entire world now. You seem to want to lessen the US involvement and point to us helping create them, as if that means we should stay out of destroying them or something. So if we give weapons to rebels, and down the road they turn against us - somehow that forbids us from stopping them when they turned to terrorism?

[NightTrain]

but your right about me saying we SHOULD NOT FEAR AQ.
while all i hear from you and others since 9/11 is that the US should ALWAYS BE AFRAID.

Afraid? No.

Vigilant and wary? Absolutely.

[revelarts]

You said they were a "boogie man". Do you know the term? You're saying that they are like a myth of sorts, and likely being used to keep people in line, or in a certain state. Meanwhile, the rest of the world sees the reality and the death these scum are leaving in their wake.

I see ISIS as a serious threat, to MANY nations - as does the entire world now. You seem to want to lessen the US involvement and point to us helping create them, as if that means we should stay out of destroying them or something. So if we give weapons to rebels, and down the road they turn against us - somehow that forbids us from stopping them when they turned to terrorism?
it seems i need to go over the top to make my point.....

....

...Helping ASAD defeat them would make sense at this point but sending more US troops in is a ridiculous waste of more American lives and $$. Isis is a cancer, a gang not a nation state.
I mentioned else where that what we need is to turn our INSANELY invasive and hulking spying apparatus on these clowns. They'd have NO secrets and we could pick them up as they get off the plane in LAX or Atlanta OR have interpol do it in Europe as they buy humus at the market if you can't bare the thought of them touching earth in the U.S.. But IMO sending in the Troops is a stupid IDEA….

....Moving with wisdom, stealth and some honest Justice MIGHT start to turn "hearts and minds" in our direction for a change.....

so why are you lying about me wanting to do nothing jim?
As i said you seem to think that EVERY problem is nail and the military is the hammer.
you seem to think anything less is "doing nothing". Jim that is a LIE.

so please just stop your lying,
why are you lying so much? why are you such a lying liar?

And why would you even think that not giving rebel weapons means not trying to stop terrorism.
how do those 2 things go together?


i don't mind talking, but don't lie about my position Jim.

[jimnyc]

I see you'd rather turn into a raving loon again rather than answer questions. I should have known better. Bad on me.

[revelarts]

I see you'd rather turn into a raving loon again rather than answer questions. I should have known better. Bad on me.

i answered the question,
I've said in 2 previous post what i want to do.
you keep saying "rev wants to do nothing".
if i say it in a normal post you ignore it, if i put it in a "loud" post you call it loony and ignore it.
why Jim?

[Gaffer]

I see rev, like liberals, doesn't understand the difference between lying and being wrong about something. If you think someone is wrong then you say they are wrong, not they are lying. Rev are you related to debbie whatshername shits?

ISIS is the arab spring. It has been a long term operation of the muslim brotherhood. They took down Tunisia, then Egypt, which they lost back to the Egyptian military, then libya now they are working on syria and iraq with pushes into lebanon and Jordan. Any secular strong man will be ousted and all the others will have to ally themselves with ISIS or be attacked by so called rebels in their own states.

It's all allowed to happen because the US president is in cahoots with the muslim brotherhood. He was a major backer of the arab spring. He's only going to make it appear that he's fighting ISIS.

In order to have intelligence in a country you have to have people on the ground in that country. People that can work without threat of kidnapping or death, who can recruit locals to provide information. And they have to deal with unsavory characters to get that information. It's an area that hurt us during the clinton administration when he declared the CIA could not use criminals and unsavory characters as informants. This caused a lot of blind spots and led to 9/11.

[jimnyc]

i answered the question,
I've said in 2 previous post what i want to do.
you keep saying "rev wants to do nothing".
if i say it in a normal post you ignore it, if i put it in a "loud" post you call it loony and ignore it.
why Jim?

I asked you I believe 3 times about your boogie man comment, no response (did I miss it? I'll go back and look). Several others remain unanswered as well. Why not simply ask a question again if it were missed, like I did, rather than your continued tone of stating things as if you are repeating things others have said over the years. YOU start with that kind of shit quite often. Then you don't get a question answered and you start screaming like a nut.

You also retreated way back when after trying to claim AQ was nothing anymore. Now you try to claim that ISIS is some sort of mythical band of guys that are being used to control people somehow. And then you ignore questioning on it.

[revelarts]

I asked you I believe 3 times about your boogie man comment, no response (did I miss it? I'll go back and look). Several others remain unanswered as well. Why not simply ask a question again if it were missed, like I did, rather than your continued tone of stating things as if you are repeating things others have said over the years. YOU start with that kind of shit quite often. Then you don't get a question answered and you start screaming like a nut.

You also retreated way back when after trying to claim AQ was nothing anymore. Now you try to claim that ISIS is some sort of mythical band of guys that are being used to control people somehow. And then you ignore questioning on it.

if you read all of my statement WITH my recommendations on actions you'll see how i'm using the term boggieman.

simply put.
Isis is another overblown threat to the U.S..,
just as Iran was/is,
just a AQ was/is.

Another group that SEEMS TO have you and others looking under the bed or in the closet --alla boogie man-- for Isis to strike at any moment "6 months from now" and destroy Americans willy nilly. Because "they said" they could.

I call that BS.
Is isis bad? yes.
Is it something to, in a fit of fear, blindly throw the military at in hopes of killing it,
while we bleed American lives and $$$ into the sand over there again , believing that the military will do the trick THIS TIME.
If we stay ... maybe forever.
i say no.

so 1 question.
why did you fixate on the 1 mention of the 1 term "boggieman" and repeat that 3 times,
but completely missed all of my alternative options -over a few post- that clearly addressed Isis and describe it as a problem?

[NightTrain]

Rev, you are aware that ISIS has beheaded a couple of Americans on video recently, yes?

How are you saying that they are not a threat to the USA when they are actively beheading Americans?

[revelarts]

Rev, you are aware that ISIS has beheaded a couple of Americans on video recently, yes?

How are you saying that they are not a threat to the USA when they are actively beheading Americans?

so where did i say "ISIS IS NOT A THREAT to the USA".
please check what i said.



....Isis is another overblown threat to the U.S..,...

that's pretty clear right?
why don't you guys see what i'm saying.

[Gunny]

if you read all of my statement WITH my recommendations on actions you'll see how i'm using the term boggieman.

simply put.
Isis is another overblown threat to the U.S..,
just as Iran was/is,
just a AQ was/is.

Another group that SEEMS TO have you and others looking under the bed or in the closet --alla boogie man-- for Isis to strike at any moment "6 months from now" and destroy Americans willy nilly. Because "they said" they could.

I call that BS.
Is isis bad? yes.
Is it something to, in a fit of fear, blindly throw the military at in hopes of killing it,
while we bleed American lives and $$$ into the sand over there again , believing that the military will do the trick THIS TIME.
If we stay ... maybe forever.
i say no.

so 1 question.
why did you fixate on the 1 mention of the 1 term "boggieman" and repeat that 3 times,
but completely missed all of my alternative options -over a few post- that clearly addressed Isis and describe it as a problem?

Okay. Let's play Marine Corps....

You presented a problem. What's YOUR solution?

[NightTrain]

so where did i say "ISIS IS NOT A THREAT to the USA".
please check what i said.




that's pretty clear right?
why don't you guys see what i'm saying.

I don't see how a group of terrorists beheading Americans can possibly be 'overblown' as a threat.

They are a threat and they need to be eradicated by those whose jobs it is to eliminate threats to Americans : The U.S. Military.

[fj1200]

I don't see how a group of terrorists beheading Americans can possibly be 'overblown' as a threat.

They are a threat and they need to be eradicated by those whose jobs it is to eliminate threats to Americans : The U.S. Military.

Being a threat to an American who chose to go to a foreign country is different than being a threat to America.

[NightTrain]

Being a threat to an American who chose to go to a foreign country is different than being a threat to America.

I don't see it that way.

ISIS targeting and killing Americans is a threat to all of us, especially with our so-called border the way it is.

[fj1200]

I don't see it that way.

ISIS targeting and killing Americans is a threat to all of us, especially with our so-called border the way it is.

They've killed far more Iraqis, Kurds, Wazidis?, etc. than Americans. If an American is killed in China or Iran for a questionable infraction do we declare war?

[NightTrain]

They've killed far more Iraqis, Kurds, Wazidis?, etc. than Americans. If an American is killed in China or Iran for a questionable infraction do we declare war?

I'm not concerned with other country's citizens. That's up to those governments to protect their own.

I'm not aware of an American being executed in another country for a questionable infraction... what, specifically, are you referring to?

[fj1200]

I'm not concerned with other country's citizens. That's up to those governments to protect their own.

I'm not aware of an American being executed in another country for a questionable infraction... what, specifically, are you referring to?

It was a hypothetical but there are Americans held in other countries. I also think it unlikely that we would be talking about striking at ISIS if they had only killed a couple of Americans. What is the extent of all this? Do we help Iraq because we're allied? Do we strike into Syria who is not our ally?

[revelarts]

...
In order to have intelligence in a country you have to have people on the ground in that country. People that can work without threat of kidnapping or death, who can recruit locals to provide information. And they have to deal with unsavory characters to get that information. It's an area that hurt us during the clinton administration when he declared the CIA could not use criminals and unsavory characters as informants. This caused a lot of blind spots and led to 9/11.


Okay. Let's play Marine Corps....
You presented a problem. What's YOUR solution?

"solution" I'm not sure there's a full blown solution I think we can minimize the amount of the distant threat though.

but any solution requires the Iraqi and other M.E. gov'ts to step up and maintain their postions. without that it's all just pissin in the wind. or we Occupy militarily forever. quagmire.

But ok, I'm no, diplomat, or spy or soldiers,
but from my comfortable chair
i'll brainstorm here and expand on my previous comments.

so what are our assets compared to Isis.
do you folks think we have some advantaged?
by orders on magnitude i'd say.

but ok
John McCain got in contact with some of Isis/AQ/AlNusra and took pictures with them.
so can it really always be that hard to get close to them?
I assume they used telephones to make that meeting happen.

is the US capable of taping phones still?
To even get to the U.S. will they have to make a phone call, or 2?
Maybe get on a plane? Maybe drive OUTSIDE of their own areas?

Do we know where many of these guys are physically? yes. can we take people from camera satellite duty watching U.S. citizens and follow AQ/Isis/alNusra and get a pattern and outline of the movements and habbits?
Can we get rid of drones over the US and put them in Iraq M.E. and have people in our Billion dollar Iraqi embassy (http://www.businessinsider.com/750-million-united-states-embassy-iraq-baghdad-2013-3?op=1) take time to make some notes? Do we have ANY friends left in Iraq or Syria who we can trust willing to spy on the periphery, to plant bugs, cameras, in homes, cars trucks? Tracking devices? Do they eat? So someone goes to market? Can we set up people as Grocers? do they buy ammo? from who? can we get in with them? can we break that pipeline? Can we become the pipeline and poison the well? Do they have families outside of the war areas to contact?

on the PR end
I'd suggest that if possible we worked with the Iraqi Police feeding them info to try to capture some Isis figures who've killed some muslims. Let him be brought to trial and hanged locally or turned over to an Interanal court or the U.S military if it's a problem for the locals.
but put these nuts on trial as criminals against the law and Islam then hang or jail the nuts. let
al jazera make the cases against them in the media.

But look,
Our hyperactive NSA can with one phone, track, hear and see content, get names, numbers, time of day, do voice recog and record. (maybe even blow the phone up in your hand for all i know)
Lets turn this dreadnaught OFF American citizens, who are NOT a threat , (you can quote me there ).
and turn it on this troublesome group.

Thats on the one end. the other end is the Saudi Support, the Jordanian etc support (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html) and maybe even clandestine Nato (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/08/is-nato-ally-turkey-tacitly-fueling-the-isis-war-machine.html) or CIA support (link (http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/) link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10588308/US-secretly-backs-rebels-to-fight-al-Qaeda-in-Syria.html)). factions in both have agendas of their own. But we've got to make it painful for anyone to back these nuts by Treating them as terrorist (AFTER TRIALS) and jailing them. or Either make a pot so sweet that they'll turnover these nuts with a cheery on top.
It seems to me the wahabist Saudis are Key here, without sure support from them IMO were spinning wheels in the sand no matter what we do. They are 2 faced. and both Bush and Obama have allow their promotion of the WORSE of the Islamic teachings and terrorist to spread.

IMO if we were to move in ways similar to what i mention above, we'd FIND even more ways to disrupt the BS Caliphate growth and life.

All this assumes we are serious.
But you don't have to toss the military at them all,
all we have to do is Criple their work.
take out the leadership and the braintrust. the rest will flounder in the sand pissed off at the US but only able to shoot off bullets into the air, and pray Allah curse the u.s..

Maybe I'm just crazy, but it seems to me the Full on BOOTs on the ground method would STILL need DEEP intel to make solid strikes and establish a solid victory, unless of course were just going to make the whole area a parking lot.

[Gunny]

What did I tell you about writing mini-novels at me? I'm old, have ADD and wear glasses. Is there an abridged version? :)

[fj1200]

What did I tell you about writing mini-novels at me? I'm old, have ADD and wear glasses. Is there an abridged version? :)

That is the abridged version. :poke:

[revelarts]

What did I tell you about writing mini-novels at me? I'm old, have ADD and wear glasses. Is there an abridged version? :)

track down the SOBS with the FULL force of our trillion dollar "homeland security " junk
add spies on the ground.
Capture and put on trail and kill the main isis player for crimes. Disrupt their ammo and food supplies, Jail the fat cat Saudi, Turkish, Jordanian, Dubai supporters.
pray the Iraqi gov't can maintain itself. so we don't have too.

[Gunny]

That is the abridged version. :poke:

That sucks. I had to struggle through that whole "I don't have a solution" thing.

[fj1200]

That sucks. I had to struggle through that whole "I don't have a solution" thing.

OK, abridged is sniper vs. daisy-cutter.

[Gunny]

"solution" I'm not sure there's a full blown solution I think we can minimize the amount of the distant threat though.

but any solution requires the Iraqi and other M.E. gov'ts to step up and maintain their postions. without that it's all just pissin in the wind. or we Occupy militarily forever. quagmire.

But ok, I'm no, diplomat, or spy or soldiers,
but from my comfortable chair
i'll brainstorm here and expand on my previous comments.

so what are our assets compared to Isis.
do you folks think we have some advantaged?
by orders on magnitude i'd say.

but ok
John McCain got in contact with some of Isis/AQ/AlNusra and took pictures with them.
so can it really always be that hard to get close to them?
I assume they used telephones to make that meeting happen.

is the US capable of taping phones still?
To even get to the U.S. will they have to make a phone call, or 2?
Maybe get on a plane? Maybe drive OUTSIDE of their own areas?

Do we know where many of these guys are physically? yes. can we take people from camera satellite duty watching U.S. citizens and follow AQ/Isis/alNusra and get a pattern and outline of the movements and habbits?
Can we get rid of drones over the US and put them in Iraq M.E. and have people in our Billion dollar Iraqi embassy (http://www.businessinsider.com/750-million-united-states-embassy-iraq-baghdad-2013-3?op=1) take time to make some notes? Do we have ANY friends left in Iraq or Syria who we can trust willing to spy on the periphery, to plant bugs, cameras, in homes, cars trucks? Tracking devices? Do they eat? So someone goes to market? Can we set up people as Grocers? do they buy ammo? from who? can we get in with them? can we break that pipeline? Can we become the pipeline and poison the well? Do they have families outside of the war areas to contact?

on the PR end
I'd suggest that if possible we worked with the Iraqi Police feeding them info to try to capture some Isis figures who've killed some muslims. Let him be brought to trial and hanged locally or turned over to an Interanal court or the U.S military if it's a problem for the locals.
but put these nuts on trial as criminals against the law and Islam then hang or jail the nuts. let
al jazera make the cases against them in the media.

But look,
Our hyperactive NSA can with one phone, track, hear and see content, get names, numbers, time of day, do voice recog and record. (maybe even blow the phone up in your hand for all i know)
Lets turn this dreadnaught OFF American citizens, who are NOT a threat , (you can quote me there ).
and turn it on this troublesome group.

Thats on the one end. the other end is the Saudi Support, the Jordanian etc support (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html) and maybe even clandestine Nato (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/08/is-nato-ally-turkey-tacitly-fueling-the-isis-war-machine.html) or CIA support (link (http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/) link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10588308/US-secretly-backs-rebels-to-fight-al-Qaeda-in-Syria.html)). factions in both have agendas of their own. But we've got to make it painful for anyone to back these nuts by Treating them as terrorist (AFTER TRIALS) and jailing them. or Either make a pot so sweet that they'll turnover these nuts with a cheery on top.
It seems to me the wahabist Saudis are Key here, without sure support from them IMO were spinning wheels in the sand no matter what we do. They are 2 faced. and both Bush and Obama have allow their promotion of the WORSE of the Islamic teachings and terrorist to spread.

IMO if we were to move in ways similar to what i mention above, we'd FIND even more ways to disrupt the BS Caliphate growth and life.

All this assumes we are serious.
But you don't have to toss the military at them all,
all we have to do is Criple their work.
take out the leadership and the braintrust. the rest will flounder in the sand pissed off at the US but only able to shoot off bullets into the air, and pray Allah curse the u.s..

Maybe I'm just crazy, but it seems to me the Full on BOOTs on the ground method would STILL need DEEP intel to make solid strikes and establish a solid victory, unless of course were just going to make the whole area a parking lot.

@revelarts It took your post 10 seconds to load, and I don't have a cheap computer. :popcorn:

But I got a simple answer. Your entire post is comprised of you expecting Islamic Arabs to think and act like us. They don't. They don't have a problem with faith like Westerners.

We've squelched any effective fighting force the Iraqi's may have had. Instead of puppet, Western-style government, we should have set up a council of Arab warlords whose land is threatened. They'll fight over that sand dune, trust me. T,E. Lawrence aka "Lawrence of Arabia" learned this a hundred years ago. How do you think the UK won in the ME in WWI? But Lawrence's views were dismissed, and the UK welched on all promises. Instead, we want to set up some weak pathetic central government that mirrors our own.

Lawrence got all those warlords to cooperate for the greater good and they ran the Ottoman Turks out.

So, use your brain. To recruit an army you need incentive. Promising them something they don't understand hardly instills excitement. Promise them another sand dune or two. That'll get them ALL worked up.

[gabosaurus]

This is so incredibly wrong. We should be withdrawing troops, not sending in additional ones.
Much more can be accomplished with intelligence and surveillance. The U.S. military has drones and precision air strikes on its side.
And I could care less if there are Americans, Canadians, Brits or whoever embedded with Isis. You choose your fate when you ally with terror.

[NightTrain]

It was a hypothetical but there are Americans held in other countries. I also think it unlikely that we would be talking about striking at ISIS if they had only killed a couple of Americans. What is the extent of all this? Do we help Iraq because we're allied? Do we strike into Syria who is not our ally?

We have a responsibility to help Iraq, as you know. Bambam failed them and now more American blood will be shed correcting his ineptitude.

Syria is going great, IMO. They're both killing each other and that should continue. Syria has lots less time to promote and encourage terrorism these days as they're locked in bloody combat with terrorists they used to support. They're reaping the whirlwind.

[fj1200]

We have a responsibility to help Iraq, as you know. Bambam failed them and now more American blood will be shed correcting his ineptitude.

Syria is going great, IMO. They're both killing each other and that should continue. Syria has lots less time to promote and encourage terrorism these days as they're locked in bloody combat with terrorists they used to support. They're reaping the whirlwind.

That is certainly true, "we broke it we bought it." Helping the Iraqis and Kurds is the least that we can do. And I also agree, ISIS is a special kind of suck and we need to take some sort of action but I don't think they're coming to get us is the best argument to make.

[aboutime]

track down the SOBS with the FULL force of our trillion dollar "homeland security " junk
add spies on the ground.
Capture and put on trail and kill the main isis player for crimes. Disrupt their ammo and food supplies, Jail the fat cat Saudi, Turkish, Jordanian, Dubai supporters.
pray the Iraqi gov't can maintain itself. so we don't have too.



revelarts. And you wonder why some of us disagree with you? Really? If it was as easy as you contend above. It would have ended long ago.

But, in light of what you hoped would be the END-ALL solutions. I am convinced you live in...http://icansayit.com/images/lalaland.jpg

[jimnyc]

This is so incredibly wrong. We should be withdrawing troops, not sending in additional ones.
Much more can be accomplished with intelligence and surveillance. The U.S. military has drones and precision air strikes on its side.
And I could care less if there are Americans, Canadians, Brits or whoever embedded with Isis. You choose your fate when you ally with terror.

That's what I said about Al-awlaki or whatever the hell is name was, but people lost their lunch over him getting killed. Even though they chose their fate, some believe while they are fighting on the other side of the world, they still deserve due process.

[jimnyc]

I don't see how a group of terrorists beheading Americans can possibly be 'overblown' as a threat.

They are a threat and they need to be eradicated by those whose jobs it is to eliminate threats to Americans : The U.S. Military.

I think Rev is onto something - they should spend more money on intel and such. THEN drop the MOAB's and incinerate any area they and their men occupy. That's the only way to kill roaches, and it can be done from drones/air to minimize "troops on the ground" and make many happy! :)

[fj1200]

That's what I said about Al-awlaki or whatever the hell is name was, but people lost their lunch over him getting killed. Even though they chose their fate, some believe while they are fighting on the other side of the world, they still deserve due process.

The Constitution is a sticky thing. :scared:

[jimnyc]

The Constitution is a sticky thing. :scared:

I agree, it is! I would agree to an amendment in less than .5 of a second, declaring all constitutional rights null and void if someone picks up a weapon against their home country of the USA. That's not me admitting that one is needed, just that I would go with that easily. I still believe they are open season, especially if one is an Al Qaeda leader, and the other traveling with terrorists.

IMO, a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. They all need to go.

[fj1200]

^But that is/was a whole 'nother thread. :slap:

[revelarts]

Jim's ready to chuck due process ...
Because the President should have the powers of a king or dictator of the world when a person attacks the USA.

man o man

Here
Anyway on the topic.
Here's a 5 minute conversation with a guy who's studied what's happened in Yeman with Drone srikes and the "war or terror in Arabia."

the Jist of it is that in 2009 there were about 200-300 AQ in Yeman then the drones started "killing the terrorist" but the number of terrorist increased so that now there's 900-1000 AQ. and Because the U.S. doesn't apologize when they get it Wrong (bombing wedding party) and AQ does (after attacking Hospital) we loose the PR war with the people. and Avg folks BACK AQ.

"the more men seem to kill the stronger they seem to grow"

"Obama confuses killing with with winning"

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/11/347738154/yemen-may-not-offer-best-model-for-obamas-isis-plan


Seems like Bombing is like throwing gasoline on the fire.
at least the way we're doing it.
It's crazy to think that MORE of the same is going to make it all better.

We have to THINK and realize that we are not fighting a nation but a Gang of Thugs. you don't bomb a neighborhood to rid it of the thugs and gangsters.

Even rival gangs no better than to shoot up the neighborhood.
You try to make sure you only get who you mean to get
and to try to get the neighbors support. They can save your life if they back you up.

In the case of the known active Isis members "rendention" out of the country or area makes sense.
Drone bombing a highway full of cars to kill 3 guys is STUPID.

there are probably 1000 different ways to frustrate the actions of Isis over a years time without dropping one Bomb or putting one boot on the ground. But it's take focus on the part of the intel community.
IMO that's what they are there for.
Armies fight foreign nations, Intel fights thugs, traitors and saboteurs abroad.
Just because we have the biggest army in the world, doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job.

[jimnyc]

^But that is/was a whole 'nother thread. :slap:

Yes, but don't smack me, I only replied, I wasn't the one to take it in another direction!

[jimnyc]

Jim's ready to chuck due process ...
Because the President should have the powers of a king or dictator of the world when a person attacks the USA.

Yes, I absolutely am. If you pickup weapons in another country against the USA, you lose all rights. If you plan attacks on America, you lose your rights. You don't get to tie the hands of those needing to protect the country and hide behind the COTUS while preparing to attack.

And I would be in favor of them giving that power to the janitor at my local high school. If you want to attack America, prepare to face the consequences.

If you pickup a weapon towards law enforcement, they will shoot you, and aim to kill. A thug/robber doesn't get to scream "due process" to somehow prevent himself from being shot, or to allow him to continue his thuggery and hide behind the constitution. Now, you do so in an entirely different country, and threaten our country as a whole, then I don't care if 99 drones drop 99 bombs on your ass.

[Gunny]

Yes, I absolutely am. If you pickup weapons in another country against the USA, you lose all rights. If you plan attacks on America, you lose your rights. You don't get to tie the hands of those needing to protect the country and hide behind the COTUS while preparing to attack.

And I would be in favor of them giving that power to the janitor at my local high school. If you want to attack America, prepare to face the consequences.

If you pickup a weapon towards law enforcement, they will shoot you, and aim to kill. A thug/robber doesn't get to scream "due process" to somehow prevent himself from being shot, or to allow him to continue his thuggery and hide behind the constitution. Now, you do so in an entirely different country, and threaten our country as a whole, then I don't care if 99 drones drop 99 bombs on your ass.

Actually, if you plan attacks on the US, you ARE guilty of treason.

[revelarts]

Jim's your a worse law breaker than i am.
just break the law when feel like it. anarchy's coming.


But back on topic


...ISIS has also proven that it’s practical and can adapt to changing battlefield conditions. Despite taking Iraq’s second-largest city, Mosul, in early June, ISIS was smart enough not to try an assault on Baghdad this summer. ISIS would likely lose that battle, according to U.S. intelligence officials, because the city has more than 5 million Shiite Arabs, who belong to the sect of Islam the Sunnis in ISIS consider apostate. While ISIS has refrained from a military assault on Baghdad, U.S. intelligence officials believe the group has cells in place in the Iraqi capital capable of being activated for a future attack or acts of terrorism.

For the government of Iraq, ISIS will remain a long-term challenge. One intelligence official said the group could be weakened if the Iraqi army got continued “external support,” including more arms, more training, and a steady feed of precise information on ISIS fighters, especially the kind of technical monitoring (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/13/exclusive-isis-s-enemies-ask-pentagon-for-drones.html) done with overhead and on-the-ground sensors that provide intelligence, reconnaissance, and surveillance.





...U.S. intelligence officials pointed out that ISIS had accomplished something al Qaeda and its affiliates had not: successfully holding territory it had conquered. In areas controlled by ISIS, basic government services like electricity and running water continue, these officials said. Besides the holding of territory, another major accomplishment for ISIS has been in the propaganda war within the broader jihadist community. The group today poses a direct ideological challenge to al Qaeda, according to U.S. intelligence officials, because, unlike al Qaeda, it has decided to create an Islamic caliphate now. That caliphate factors into the group’s recruitment propaganda, which features a mix of gruesome violent images with more positive themes that show the promise of a return of Muslim empire.
The U.S. intelligence officials said ISIS was winning the social-media war with al Qaeda, often finding tens of thousands of Twitter accounts to retweet their messages. In some cases, other jihadists have expressed support for ISIS (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/08/14/isis-spreads-to-indonesia.html) as well. In July, the jailed leader of Indonesia’s hard-line Jamaah Anshorut Tauhid organization called on followers (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/07/14/abu-bakar-ba-asyir-calls-followers-support-isil.html) to support ISIS. The intelligence officials added that some members of al Qaeda's core and its affiliate in North Africa have also expressed support for ISIS, despite the group’s war of words with al Qaeda’s leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
But U.S. intelligence officials say the secret to defeating ISIS may be to wait for its overreach to catch up with it.

“They are fighting on too many fronts and they are outnumbered,” one official said. He said the group could be weakened “if it is faced with a competent force,” applying continued pressure, and that it would get weaker still if some of the Sunni groups that have joined it in an uncomfortable marriage of convenience start to peel away.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/14/isis-still-baffles-us-intelligence-agencies.html


even though i think the intel branches need to be the main tool to deal with this.
I wish i could say i was as CONFIDENT in their abilities as I am in the military's.

the military is a great plumber
but the US Intel agencies are just Fair electricians.
And it's not because they don't have the tools or the training or good people they are sadly just kinda muddled and laced with corruption.

if there was some trust worthy leadership in the president and the heads of the Alphabet soup agencies I'd be more confident. there are plenty of good people in the rank and file but the upper eshelon .. sheesh.
My guess is they'll let politics and infighting snatch a few defeats out of the hands of victories.

If they even decide to uses the Intel poison instead of the military Canons to kill roaches.

[Gunny]

Jim's your a worse law breaker than i am.
just break the law when feel like it. anarchy's coming.


But back on topic





http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/14/isis-still-baffles-us-intelligence-agencies.html


even though i think the intel branches need to be the main tool to deal with this.
I wish i could say i was as CONFIDENT in their abilities as I am in the military's.

the military is a great plumber
but the US Intel agencies are just Fair electricians.
And it's not because they don't have the tools or the training or good people they are sadly just kinda muddled and laced with corruption.

if there was some trust worthy leadership in the president and the heads of the Alphabet soup agencies I'd be more confident. there are plenty of good people in the rank and file but the upper eshelon .. sheesh.
My guess is they'll let politics and infighting snatch a few defeats out of the hands of victories.

If they even decide to uses the Intel poison instead of the military Canons to kill roaches.

I see a trend. Al that spy crap? Doesn't work if you don't use it. You want to try and win this surgical kind of war where only bad guys get killed and technology prevails. THIS is technology:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6347&stc=1

[Sir Evil]

Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that China leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Iran leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that North Korea leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that Russia leaves a nuke off our coast...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Militia pulls another Oklahoma City...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the CheChen Terrorist pull another Boston...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Saudi i mean AQ Terrorist pull another 9/11...
Assume for a moment that 6 months from now that the Hamas Terrorist pull another... well something horrible in the U.S....


look we can live in fear and think we need to Bomb, send troops or nuke ever HINT of a threat to us if we want too.

a few months ago you and others had similar fevered advise about Iran's Nuke program.
sorry if i don't get on the band wagon that we've got to destroy everyone that doesn't look at the U.S and smile pretty.

Isis has done some horrible crap. and they are getting stronger,
But you NEVER addressed my point.
IS MORE military action in the region on our part the Solution Jim?
Does feeding more "moderate" rebels who eat hearts going to solve the problem?

I mentioned else where that what we need is to turn our INSANELY invasive and hulking spying apparatus on these clowns. They'd have NO secrets and we could pick them up as they get off the plane in LAX or Atlanta OR have interpol do it in Europe as they buy humus at the market if you can't bare the thought of them touching earth in the U.S.. But IMO sending in the Troops is a stupid IDEA.
We need to STARVE the region of Arms and Funds. we need to straiten the Saudi enablers out as well. without that we're in the same boat as Afghanistan where we PAY the Taliban to allow our supplies in. and allow them to grow poppies that fund the insurgents!

isn't that a train you want to get off of?
or do you want to ignore those moving parts and more and Just say RAH RAH for the military as they fly in to fight people funded, armed, supplied and manned by the Saudis and Others M.E. "friends"?

We aren't playing army in the backyard.

I'll Add this,
for the 1st time since 9/11 we have a REAL opportunity to actually win some support from the general Muslim population. They don't like Isis Either, they are the ones that are getting killed by these nuts. Moving with wisdom, stealth and some honest Justice MIGHT start to turn "hearts and minds" in our direction for a change.
If we care about that kinda thing anymore, Some people talk like they never want to be friends with the Muslim peoples. Somehow we made friends with "the animals" the "Japs" and the "Krauts" And we even do biz with Vietnam, and Russia (Well we did with Russia).

anyway don't let me put the threat in perspective.
In 6 months there could be SUN FLARE that could WIPE out the electrical Grid...
In 6 months an Earthquake could cause CA to fall into the ocean...
In 6 months Sea Levels could rise because of Global warming and drown the coast 100 miles in under 40 feet of water.
In 6 months EBOLA could wipe out 1/2 of the world population...

In 6 months... Insert real or imagined horror here add hot peppers.... then add knee jerk military response to taste.

I have avoided posting for quite some time now but revelarts your post is worthy of a my response!

Assume for a moment that 6 months from now you and your like minded ilk were rounded up, shipped to the middle east and nuked until you were glowing.... I would sure Assume I would sleep better at night!

[jimnyc]

Jim's your a worse law breaker than i am.
just break the law when feel like it. anarchy's coming.

That's possible, I can absolutely see how killing Americans who went to foreign countries, and end up fighting back against America, can lead to anarchy. :laugh:

But yeah, when it comes to protecting the country from threats, kill them. And if it's a scumbag American who bailed our country to go elsewhere and fight against us - kill them twice. I don't think it's breaking the law, personally, and I think they should further clarify it to make it plain and simple:

Amendment 28 - Should an American citizen pickup arms while abroad, and join a terrorist group, militia or insurgents, and any goal is to fight American troops or the American homeland, or put any American interests in danger, they lose their Constitutional protections. As such, they should be treated like any other enemy.

[revelarts]

I have avoided posting for quite some time now but revelarts your post is worthy of a my response!

Assume for a moment that 6 months from now you and your like minded ilk were rounded up, shipped to the middle east and nuked until you were glowing.... I would sure Assume I would sleep better at night!

And if in 6 months NOTHING happens in the US will you think isis is maybe NOT as big a threat TO THE U.S. as promoted?
I suspect in 1 year they'll be a new small but real threat blown out of all proportion and the media and national leadership effectively crying wolf for troops to go hither and yon and the Constitution trashed or some city will evaporate.

one of my ilk said:


"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -*
kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervour *-
with the cry of grave national emergency.
Always, there has been some terrible evil at home,
or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up
if we did not blindly rally behind it by
furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded.
Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened,
seem never to have been quite real."
General Douglas MacArthur

[jimnyc]

And if in 6 months NOTHING happens in the US will you think isis is maybe NOT as big a threat TO THE U.S. as promoted?
I suspect in 1 year they'll be a new small but real threat blown out of all proportion and the media and national leadership effectively crying wolf for troops to go hither and yon and the Constitution trashed or some city will evaporate.

I believe AQ took like 8 years in the planning to hit the WTC a second time? Bin Laden took how many years to die, while still communicating with other members? I think you're running with this 6mionth thing as I used it as an example. It could be sooner that they perform a small attack, later for a larger, sooner for a larger. They may hit the UK, Jordan, or just continue to create mayhem and try and cutoff the heads of any American interests or reporters. And you say small? You said the same about AQ when you said they were less than 200 members. ISIS is reportedly around 20,000 at last count. Is that really a small gang of terrorists to you?


one of my ilk said:


"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -*
kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervour *-
with the cry of grave national emergency.
Always, there has been some terrible evil at home,
or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up
if we did not blindly rally behind it by
furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded.
Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened,
seem never to have been quite real."
General Douglas MacArthur



Can you tell me how the government has kept us in fear because of ISIS? I think ISIS did that themselves. I don't think the government has done ANYTHING to overstate the danger of this group. All of the stories, death, mayhem, videos - all seem to be coming from foreign places. In fact, even the idiot in the WH has barely said much prior to Wednesday. I certainly wouldn't blame them for creating any "boogie man". ISIS created that themselves and even has their own media department to circulate things to create fear themselves - and it's reality.

One of my ilk said this about OBL, and it applies to ISIS just the same:

Well, I think it’s important only because the man on the street in the Middle East, you know, believes that he <nobr>— a</nobr> lot of people believe that he is on the right track and that he is some sort of a folk hero and that sort of thing. And I think it’s necessary to bring him down, one way or another. I will confess to you that, you know, one of the statements that’s been attributed to me that I’m sort of proud of is somebody said, you know, "What do we do about Osama bin Laden?" And they asked me, "Can we forgive him?" And I said, "Forgiveness is up to God. I just hope we hurry up the meeting." And that’s the way I feel about him, really.

[Gaffer]

Latest report from the CIA said ISIS numbers about 31,000. Every time we blow one up he breaks into 6 or 8 pieces and and those clone into terrorists.

The govt and their media have done everything they can to play down the threat from ISIS. Once again rev is on the wrong side of the fence.

Setting time frames is what our numbnut in chief does. Don't expect anything like that from our enemies. ISIS will strike the US when they determine to do so, and don't expect any warning. It will be big, hopefully enough to shake the silly people in this country into awareness and give them some resolve.

The next president will undoubtedly be a republican and numbnuts plans to hand them a war, unstable world and collapsed economy. That way the DNC can point at the stuff and say "see what he/she did". ISIS isn't the only one with long range plans.

[revelarts]

well gentlemen, we disagree.

not the 1st time.

[Gunny]

And if in 6 months NOTHING happens in the US will you think isis is maybe NOT as big a threat TO THE U.S. as promoted?
I suspect in 1 year they'll be a new small but real threat blown out of all proportion and the media and national leadership effectively crying wolf for troops to go hither and yon and the Constitution trashed or some city will evaporate.

one of my ilk said:


"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -*
kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervour *-
with the cry of grave national emergency.
Always, there has been some terrible evil at home,
or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up
if we did not blindly rally behind it by
furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded.
Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened,
seem never to have been quite real."
General Douglas MacArthur



They certainly ARE a threat to our interests in the ME. Like it or not, we are dependent on the ME for oil. It very much IS our business who controls it.

Second, WE made this mess by withdrawing too soon so Obama could appease his fan base. NO ONE but his whiny-shit fab club advised him to withdraw. He doesn't listen to his advisors and he doesn't even listen to Congress. He thinks he's the King of the US.

Well, now he's reaping the whirlwind. He's facing the consequences of one of his biggest f*ck-ups. And he's STILL not listening to anyone. His plan sucks. Plain and simple. And so does YOURS.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A good democrat has to piecemeal his way into war. (see Johnson administration)

ISIS is nothing new, the administration has known about them for years. They were called al qaeda in iraq before they took the new name while hiding in syria. Before that they were saddams fahadeem (however it's spelled). It seems a few of the ISIS top leaders are former saddam goons, imagine that.
Obama is now set to go bomb the very people that one and two years ago he was begging to go help against Assad!
Deliciously ironic and so revealing of his administration and the damn dem party's stupidity.

Will add more in next post..--Tyr

[jimnyc]

well gentlemen, we disagree.

not the 1st time.

:beer:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?44598-The-largest-concentration-of-Al-Qaeda-in-the-world-is-in-Syria-now!

01-11-2014, 04:35 PM
#6
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar


Quote Originally Posted by jafar00 View Post

If Obama helped the FSA against both AQ and Assad, would you be ok with that?

NO, because the FSA is not about establishing a democracy but instead its about taking over Syria to bring about the Caliphate. Assad is a far better ruler there than are any of the entities now opposing him. Do not try to peddle that freedom and democracy line on me. I know better Jafar. FSA, AQ and Assad are all bad but Assad is by far the least bad one IMHO. Obama is dead set against Assad that tells me he is the better choice for this nation. Strange how that always seems to be the case, huh? -Tyr

"We say Grace, we say Ma'am. If you ain't into that we don't give a damn."
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! "


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01-11-2014, 10:25 AM
#1


Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot is online now
I've just begun to fight!



The largest concentration of Al Qaeda in the world is in Syria now! -Tyr


http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgr...nment-of-iraq/ Al Qaeda: Bigger, Stronger & More Dangerous Than Ever

January 9, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield In his 2011 State of the Union address, he boasted of Iraq, “Violence is down, and a new government has been formed.” The ‘Mission Accomplished’ banner was belatedly hung and everyone moved on.

Except Al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda was hardly present in Afghanistan. But it was heavily present in Iraq. And it didn’t go away just because Obama stopped paying attention to it.

Now Al Qaeda in Iraq is trying to take over two countries at once; Iraq and Syria. It’s a big goal, but it knows that in Syria, Obama will help them and that in Iraq, he won’t do anything to stop them.

The United States has carried out drone strikes against Al Qaeda in Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan. But it hasn’t touched the largest concentration of Al Qaeda in the world in Syria where the Al Nusra Front has as many as 20,000 fighters and ISIS has 12,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria

30,000 Al Qaeda terrorists should be the world’s biggest target, but Obama is too busy pretending that they aren’t there.

In response to Al Qaeda in Iraq’s onslaught in that country where the terrorist group has reclaimed Fallujah and parts of Ramadi, the CIA will provide targeting information to the Iraqis while equipping them with surveillance drones and Cessna turboprop planes armed with Hellfire missiles.

It’s a ridiculously complicated way to try and duplicate the drone strikes that have worked so well in Pakistan without actually having a single American aircraft, even unmanned, in the skies over Iraq.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The convoluted workaround is a testament to how much Obama wants to avoid even the appearance of American forces returning to Iraq. Instead of protecting national security by preventing Al Qaeda from gaining the manpower, revenue and weapons to once again seriously threaten the United States, he is putting politics first
Obama has never stopped taking his victory lap over Osama, but Al Qaeda has gained new strength under him. Not only isn’t Al Qaeda on the run, as he falsely claimed during the election, but it is bigger, stronger and more dangerous than ever. Why aren't we striking AQ in Syria? The single greatest concentration of AQ in world and they are left to as they please there. Its not like the legitimate government would not give us permission. Assad would welcome us killing all those murdering scum. So why doesn't bampunk do that? Answer is obvious isn't it? -Tyr
Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 01-11-2014 at 10:27 AM.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41631-Syrian-rebels-beheads-bishop-François-Murad



Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
Only demented animals would slice off a persons head while screaming about how great God is.



That's who Obama supports and wants to arm over there folks. Every GD one of the fffing vermin should be shot down like the GD murdering ffing dogs they are[/SIZE]! I'll volunteer to do it myself with my own weapons and ammo! You people need to understand that's coming here someday. No, don't shake you damn head its in the damn plan, the Obama plan. You think the damn scum here are any better? Stop being so GD stupid and gullible ! Muslims are muslims or don't you people get that? American muslims when called to do that will readily do that just as those scum did. When in control this is how demented and evil they act. Those of you to squeamish to watch the video and condemn Islam for it deserve to get exactly what they will give you IMHO. Anybody too damn dumb to buy weapons and ammo to defend their own family will someday see their error! I bought enough to wage a small war because my parents taught me that preparation is the key to both success and survival. What, you think American muslims are ever so special and so above being human? They are not and we have plenty of them here already teaching that crap and wanting to do that to all of us non-believers. Check out how those people have had automatic immigration visa approvals to come here for decades. Then ask yourself why that automatic approval and number of approved requests was stepped up after 911.... Too damn squeamish to watch the video don't reply to me !!! -Tyr




06-20-2013, 04:00 PM
#43
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar

Check the dates and I can go back to even a year before where I was cheering for Assad and pointing out the greater enemy to our nation were the ones Assad was fighting.-Tyr

[Gunny]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?44598-The-largest-concentration-of-Al-Qaeda-in-the-world-is-in-Syria-now!

01-11-2014, 04:35 PM
#6
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar



NO, because the FSA is not about establishing a democracy but instead its about taking over Syria to bring about the Caliphate. Assad is a far better ruler there than are any of the entities now opposing him. Do not try to peddle that freedom and democracy line on me. I know better Jafar. FSA, AQ and Assad are all bad but Assad is by far the least bad one IMHO. Obama is dead set against Assad that tells me he is the better choice for this nation. Strange how that always seems to be the case, huh? -Tyr

"We say Grace, we say Ma'am. If you ain't into that we don't give a damn."
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! "


Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------


01-11-2014, 10:25 AM
#1


Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot is online now
I've just begun to fight!



The largest concentration of Al Qaeda in the world is in Syria now! -Tyr


http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgr...nment-of-iraq/ Al Qaeda: Bigger, Stronger & More Dangerous Than Ever

January 9, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield In his 2011 State of the Union address, he boasted of Iraq, “Violence is down, and a new government has been formed.” The ‘Mission Accomplished’ banner was belatedly hung and everyone moved on.

Except Al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda was hardly present in Afghanistan. But it was heavily present in Iraq. And it didn’t go away just because Obama stopped paying attention to it.

Now Al Qaeda in Iraq is trying to take over two countries at once; Iraq and Syria. It’s a big goal, but it knows that in Syria, Obama will help them and that in Iraq, he won’t do anything to stop them.

The United States has carried out drone strikes against Al Qaeda in Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan. But it hasn’t touched the largest concentration of Al Qaeda in the world in Syria where the Al Nusra Front has as many as 20,000 fighters and ISIS has 12,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria

30,000 Al Qaeda terrorists should be the world’s biggest target, but Obama is too busy pretending that they aren’t there.

In response to Al Qaeda in Iraq’s onslaught in that country where the terrorist group has reclaimed Fallujah and parts of Ramadi, the CIA will provide targeting information to the Iraqis while equipping them with surveillance drones and Cessna turboprop planes armed with Hellfire missiles.

It’s a ridiculously complicated way to try and duplicate the drone strikes that have worked so well in Pakistan without actually having a single American aircraft, even unmanned, in the skies over Iraq.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The convoluted workaround is a testament to how much Obama wants to avoid even the appearance of American forces returning to Iraq. Instead of protecting national security by preventing Al Qaeda from gaining the manpower, revenue and weapons to once again seriously threaten the United States, he is putting politics first
Obama has never stopped taking his victory lap over Osama, but Al Qaeda has gained new strength under him. Not only isn’t Al Qaeda on the run, as he falsely claimed during the election, but it is bigger, stronger and more dangerous than ever. Why aren't we striking AQ in Syria? The single greatest concentration of AQ in world and they are left to as they please there. Its not like the legitimate government would not give us permission. Assad would welcome us killing all those murdering scum. So why doesn't bampunk do that? Answer is obvious isn't it? -Tyr
Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 01-11-2014 at 10:27 AM.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41631-Syrian-rebels-beheads-bishop-François-Murad





That's who Obama supports and wants to arm over there folks. Every GD one of the fffing vermin should be shot down like the GD murdering ffing dogs they are[/SIZE]! I'll volunteer to do it myself with my own weapons and ammo! You people need to understand that's coming here someday. No, don't shake you damn head its in the damn plan, the Obama plan. You think the damn scum here are any better? Stop being so GD stupid and gullible ! Muslims are muslims or don't you people get that? American muslims when called to do that will readily do that just as those scum did. When in control this is how demented and evil they act. Those of you to squeamish to watch the video and condemn Islam for it deserve to get exactly what they will give you IMHO. Anybody too damn dumb to buy weapons and ammo to defend their own family will someday see their error! I bought enough to wage a small war because my parents taught me that preparation is the key to both success and survival. What, you think American muslims are ever so special and so above being human? They are not and we have plenty of them here already teaching that crap and wanting to do that to all of us non-believers. Check out how those people have had automatic immigration visa approvals to come here for decades. Then ask yourself why that automatic approval and number of approved requests was stepped up after 911.... Too damn squeamish to watch the video don't reply to me !!! -Tyr




06-20-2013, 04:00 PM
#43
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's Avatar

Check the dates and I can go back to even a year before where I was cheering for Assad and pointing out the greater enemy to our nation were the ones Assad was fighting.-Tyr

Al-Qaeda has actually cut ties with ISIS. AQ expelled ISIS for -- wait for it -- excessive violence. Go figure.:laugh:

The root of this is a religious war between the Sunni and Shia. These "little" wars are basically "proxy" war between Saudi Arabia (Sunni) and Iran (Shia). The Assad government is Shia while the majority religion in Syria is Sunni. The Alawi's (Shia) control Assad's government and repressed the Sunni's.

What we are doing in effect, meddling in a religious schism that has existed since the 7th century. The basis of the schism in layman's terms is the Shia believe religion cannot be divorced from politics whereas the Sunni keep them separate.

Ain't politics strange? On the political front, we are Saudi Arabia's ally, and at the very least eye Iran with distrust. In real time however, our military is supporting a predominantly Shia (Iran) regime and population in Iraq against the wahabbi's (extremist Sunni's) from Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps his Eminence Prince O'blah-blah could take time out from his golf and pimping minimum wage and actually read up on WTF is going on? But then, who am I kidding? :laugh:

[Sir Evil]

And if in 6 months NOTHING happens in the US will you think isis is maybe NOT as big a threat TO THE U.S. as promoted?

pull your head out of your ass for a moment and join reality....

[Abbey Marie]

So, are we to send more troops while we simultaneously cut the military budget? :rolleyes:

[aboutime]

pull your head out of your ass for a moment and join reality....



Sir Evil. Sometimes, they just never get the education they claim they have....http://icansayit.com/images/headup.JPG