IRS says it has lost emails from 5 more employees

[jimnyc]

I hope this isn't a repost. But how much of this are we supposed to take? Do people around the country REALLY believe that this amount of people have had hard drives go bad? And that over the years - there were NO backups, which of course should be done DAILY? IMO - they are saying "that's right, we will lie and do whatever we feel like doing to cover for people, because you won't do anything about it".

Well, someone needs to do something, imprison people for this bullshit.

---

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Internal Revenue Service has lost emails from five more employees who are part of congressional probes into the treatment of conservative groups that applied for tax-exempt status, the tax service disclosed Friday.

The IRS said in June that it could not locate an untold number of emails to and from Lois Lerner, who headed the IRS division that processes applications for tax-exempt status. The revelation set off a new round of investigations and congressional hearings.

On Friday, the IRS issued a report to Congress saying the agency also lost emails from five other employees related to the probe, including two agents who worked in a Cincinnati office processing applications for tax-exempt status.

The disclosure came on the same day the Senate's subcommittee on investigations released competing reports on how the IRS handled applications from political groups during the 2010 and 2012 elections.

The Democratic report, released by Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, said both liberal and conservative groups were mistreated, revealing no political bias by the IRS. The Republican report, issued by Sen. John McCain of Arizona, said conservative groups were clearly treated worse.

The IRS inspector general set off a firestorm last year with an audit that said IRS agents singled out tea party and other conservative groups for inappropriate scrutiny when they applied for tax-exempt status.

Lerner's lost emails prompted a new round of scrutiny by Congress, the Justice Department, the inspector general and at least two federal judges.

The IRS blamed computer crashes for all the lost emails. In a statement, the IRS said all the crashes happened well before Congress launched its investigations.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/competing-views-irs-treatment-tea-party

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The corruption continues with this added in for good measure..

:fu:

and this


:pee:


and this


:slap:

and this

:bsflag:

[namvet]

"what difference does it make??"

[revelarts]

why are you'all bad mouthing the gov't all the time?
the irs could have bad drives that crashed, drives crash all the time.
and tape back ups, even offsite don't work sometimes, and bad filing. it probably happened just like they said.
It just doesn't make sense that they would "lie".
Too many people would have to be involved in a cover up like this,
someone would have talked.
And if they were lying someone would have taken them to court charged them and sent them to jail by now and sense take hasn't happen the gov't story must be 100% TRUE.

you guys are decent people but i'm not sure why you go off the deep end on this speculation about secret corruption and accusations of "lies". no one has lied.
if so PROVE IT.

:poke:

[jimnyc]

why are you'all bad mouthing the gov't all the time?
the irs could have bad drives that crashed, drives crash all the time.
and tape back ups, even offsite don't work sometimes, and bad filing. it probably happened just like they said.
It just doesn't make sense that they would "lie".
Too many people would have to be involved in a cover up like this,
someone would have talked.
And if they were lying someone would have taken them to court charged them and sent them to jail by now and sense take hasn't happen the gov't story must be 100% TRUE.

you guys are decent people but i'm not sure why you go off the deep end on this speculation about secret corruption and accusations of "lies". no one has lied.
if so PROVE IT.

:poke:

I wish they would let me in there to go over their backups alone. The backups leave a LARGE trail of success/failure and even keeps track of EVERY file it backs up (unless they put them on 1.44Mb diskettes). They would have had to have backups fail DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY... otherwise, it takes JUST ONE successful backup to be able to retrieve the files. They are telling us that not only did the hard drives fail, but they have never had a successful backup? Nearly impossible.

I was in charge of backups once, which also included the email for 2,000 employees. It backed up ALL emails, even with "open files" to ensure nothing was lost. Every day, the reports would tell me if the entire backup was successful or not, and if not, what failed - this way I could make corrections, or at least go back and now backup the few things that failed. I would be out of a job if I somehow failed to make backups. One failure here and there I could see - but they should have MONTHS AND MONTHS of daily backups.

They are telling their stories hoping the technology impaired don't fully understand. But they would literally have had to have had Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in charge of backups for this to truly have happened - and even then they would have gotten it right - as once setup - it's only a matter of inserting tapes, and analyzing the results daily and ensuring you have a high success rate.

Just give me 10 minutes with the IT guys in charge:

1- Were you performing daily backups?
2- Were they successful?
If not, what was done?
3- Tapes generally don't get reused for a minimum of 6 months - were backups failing for 6 months or longer?
If so, why in thew world wasn't anything done to correct the issue during that time?
4- If all was backing up, and you have 180 tapes MINIMUM of tapes, why wouldn't a single one of them have the backups you need?

And why is this one different, Rev? Different for "me" because I know this technology better than anything at all. I backed up shit for a long, long time at one of the worlds largest law firms, for some of the best attorneys in the world. What happened here shouldn't happen at Radio Shack. The problem would have surfaced LONG before the hard drive dying, as they would have known backups were failing, and they did nothing to correct it. The odds of this happening is astronomically low - unless they were literally beyond incompetent - or unless someone is telling a few fibs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I wish they would let me in there to go over their backups alone. The backups leave a LARGE trail of success/failure and even keeps track of EVERY file it backs up (unless they put them on 1.44Mb diskettes). They would have had to have backups fail DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY... otherwise, it takes JUST ONE successful backup to be able to retrieve the files. They are telling us that not only did the hard drives fail, but they have never had a successful backup? Nearly impossible.

I was in charge of backups once, which also included the email for 2,000 employees. It backed up ALL emails, even with "open files" to ensure nothing was lost. Every day, the reports would tell me if the entire backup was successful or not, and if not, what failed - this way I could make corrections, or at least go back and now backup the few things that failed. I would be out of a job if I somehow failed to make backups. One failure here and there I could see - but they should have MONTHS AND MONTHS of daily backups.

They are telling their stories hoping the technology impaired don't fully understand. But they would literally have had to have had Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in charge of backups for this to truly have happened - and even then they would have gotten it right - as once setup - it's only a matter of inserting tapes, and analyzing the results daily and ensuring you have a high success rate.

Just give me 10 minutes with the IT guys in charge:

1- Were you performing daily backups?
2- Were they successful?
If not, what was done?
3- Tapes generally don't get reused for a minimum of 6 months - were backups failing for 6 months or longer?
If so, why in thew world wasn't anything done to correct the issue during that time?
4- If all was backing up, and you have 180 tapes MINIMUM of tapes, why wouldn't a single one of them have the backups you need?

And why is this one different, Rev? Different for "me" because I know this technology better than anything at all. I backed up shit for a long, long time at one of the worlds largest law firms, for some of the best attorneys in the world. What happened here shouldn't happen at Radio Shack. The problem would have surfaced LONG before the hard drive dying, as they would have known backups were failing, and they did nothing to correct it. The odds of this happening is astronomically low - unless they were literally beyond incompetent - or unless someone is telling a few fibs.

Jim, here is my take on it.
They , Obama and treasonous crew, think just give 'em a lie to buy time and besides --what the ffkk can they do? Nothing because we have the ffing POWER! And all we have to do is win the Prez office in 2016(again control the Injustice Department) to keep covering our traitorous corrupt asses.
What we are seeing is a tyrannical regime doing as it pleases buying time to cover their asses and laughing at the cries for justice!
And you know why?
Because only a civil war can oust or stop them and they bank on it A. not ever happening or B. THEY killing all opposition should it occur..
That is the cold, hard brutal truth of what is going on and it damn sure is not politics as usual IMHO.
This nation has never ever seen or had to endure this type and amount of corruption mixed in with open treason so the media ignores and covers for it because the media is ALL for the agenda driving it.-Tyr

[revelarts]

I wish they would let me in there to go over their backups alone. The backups leave a LARGE trail of success/failure and even keeps track of EVERY file it backs up (unless they put them on 1.44Mb diskettes). They would have had to have backups fail DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY... otherwise, it takes JUST ONE successful backup to be able to retrieve the files. They are telling us that not only did the hard drives fail, but they have never had a successful backup? Nearly impossible.

I was in charge of backups once, which also included the email for 2,000 employees. It backed up ALL emails, even with "open files" to ensure nothing was lost. Every day, the reports would tell me if the entire backup was successful or not, and if not, what failed - this way I could make corrections, or at least go back and now backup the few things that failed. I would be out of a job if I somehow failed to make backups. One failure here and there I could see - but they should have MONTHS AND MONTHS of daily backups.

They are telling their stories hoping the technology impaired don't fully understand. But they would literally have had to have had Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in charge of backups for this to truly have happened - and even then they would have gotten it right - as once setup - it's only a matter of inserting tapes, and analyzing the results daily and ensuring you have a high success rate.

Just give me 10 minutes with the IT guys in charge:

1- Were you performing daily backups?
2- Were they successful?
If not, what was done?
3- Tapes generally don't get reused for a minimum of 6 months - were backups failing for 6 months or longer?
If so, why in thew world wasn't anything done to correct the issue during that time?
4- If all was backing up, and you have 180 tapes MINIMUM of tapes, why wouldn't a single one of them have the backups you need?

And why is this one different, Rev? Different for "me" because I know this technology better than anything at all. I backed up shit for a long, long time at one of the worlds largest law firms, for some of the best attorneys in the world. What happened here shouldn't happen at Radio Shack. The problem would have surfaced LONG before the hard drive dying, as they would have known backups were failing, and they did nothing to correct it. The odds of this happening is astronomically low - unless they were literally beyond incompetent - or unless someone is telling a few fibs.

Jim, i accept your explanation. Our IT guys have explained to me in the past about e-mail and server back-ups going back months and longer on tape. the problem they tell me is not retrieval but only the time it takes to get at it. And I was working for a medium size city gov't. Not the IRS.
You make the case even clearer than our IT guys did for me.
the IRS mouthpieces are lying. period.
that's my serious reply to you comment.

But if you'll allow me to replay some comments in a similar context after appeals to many experts in the fields assessments and logical common sense have been presented.

ahem, ok were we go

But Jim, I can post a TON of other IT experts and the official reports that show that the drives did/could fail and the backups too. It's not impossible. Do you know what an electrical surge or a few stray magnets can do to a drive?!!? hmmm? it may be coincidence, but as i said before SOMEONE IN IT WOULD HAVE TALKED. Do you know how many people in IT would KNOW that the back-ups could be retrieved? probably thousands or millions. And they'd all have to be in on it. So why are YOU the only one who thinks you know better than the expert IT guys at the IRS?
are you writing a book? I know you hate Obama and that makes anything you say about his admin UNTRUE, but do you hate America too?!?!
And why haven't the Republicans charged someone for the crimes in this so-called cover up. I'm sure the Republicans would LOVE TO get the Obama admin with this.
Jim you're a nice guy and all but you need to reel it in. And stop repeating rightwing lies, and "experts" from websites and youtube and thinking you know something about IRS computers. they are obviously different computers in ways you don't have the info on or expertise for.
the official investigation is being done and if there's any real problem it'll be revealed. Probably just a few mistakes and incompetence here and there, I can believe that.
But the intentional destruction of evidence, "Lies" and Coverups LOL, no, that's just going to far into lala land

[jimnyc]

Jim, i accept your explanation. Our IT guys have explained to me in the past about e-mail and server back-ups going back months and longer on tape. the problem they tell me is not retrieval but only the time it takes to get at it. And I was working for a medium size city gov't. Not the IRS.
You make the case even clearer than our IT guys did for me.
the IRS mouthpieces are lying. period.
that's my serious reply to you comment.

I'll go ahead and take a stab at the fictitious stuff too!!


But if you'll allow me to replay some comments in a similar context after appeals to many experts in the fields assessments and logical common sense have been presented.

ahem, ok were we go

But Jim, I can post a TON of other IT experts and the official reports that show that the drives did/could fail and the backups too. It's not impossible. Do you know what an electrical surge or a few stray magnets can do to a drive?!!?

They either DID or DID NOT have successful backups taking place. If they DID, then a hard drive failure isn't an issue, just restore from backups. If NOT, then when did it start failing? What was done to correct the failing of backups? Throughout this time, were ANY of the backups successful? If backups were failing for longer than 6 months - show us the paper/email trail showing that it was reported. Who lost their job for failing to fix this? Most major companies would fire someone if they couldn't correct this within 7 days.


hmmm? it may be coincidence, but as i said before SOMEONE IN IT WOULD HAVE TALKED. Do you know how many people in IT would KNOW that the back-ups could be retrieved? probably thousands or millions. And they'd all have to be in on it. So why are YOU the only one who thinks you know better than the expert IT guys at the IRS?

Give it time. It wouldn't surprise me if a lackey eventually speaks out on what transpired, if anything, within the server room. Outside of that, the only people in the know would be management, and I think at this very time they have good reason to cover their asses.


are you writing a book? I know you hate Obama and that makes anything you say about his admin UNTRUE, but do you hate America too?!?!

No book, but if someone released data on this, and only did so to sell their book, I wouldn't believe them alone, I would definitely need more than that. I don't care about Obama or the IRS - I'm just picking apart a dumb lie. As an IT person, I find the odds of what they are telling us happened, pretty much VERY far fetched.


And why haven't the Republicans charged someone for the crimes in this so-called cover up. I'm sure the Republicans would LOVE TO get the Obama admin with this.

Give it time, I think Issa and others are trying their best to get the truth. Just seems the more he asks for, the more continues to "disappear"


Jim you're a nice guy and all but you need to reel it in. And stop repeating rightwing lies, and "experts" from websites and youtube and thinking you know something about IRS computers. they are obviously different computers in ways you don't have the info on or expertise for.

I only replied to what the IRS stated themselves. Didn't touch youtube. Backing up is backing up - you other retain data or you do not retain data. An entry level lackey could tell us that.


the official investigation is being done and if there's any real problem it'll be revealed. Probably just a few mistakes and incompetence here and there, I can believe that.
But the intentional destruction of evidence, "Lies" and Coverups LOL, no, that's just going to far into lala land

I hope it's revealed! Problem is, they are defiant. And if they continue to just claim everything and everything disapepared - then what? At the VERY least, some VERY serious incompetence within the IT at the IRS. And those above IT, the management, and their management, should have been aware that these problems existed. If they didn't, then they were incompetent as well.

I know you just tossed that out there, Rev. But that's how crappy the responses are from the IRS, they are just SO far gone to the point that it's comical.

[revelarts]

A few instances that come to mind of the gov'ts problem with keeping records.

CIA admits they destroyed Terror/torture tapes, at least 92. In the face of court orders.
Why? well "tapes no longer needed"

UK can't find tapes for "Renditions" in 2002.
"water damage" (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140716/10263727898/uk-foreign-office-reverses-course-cia-rendition-files-lost-to-water-damage-papers-have-now-dried-out.shtml) ooops!

FBI can't find video tapes collected from the Oklahoma city Bombing.
that's Clinton admin BTW
link (http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/trial-seeks-fbi-tape-showing-mcveigh-accomplice/)

FAA destroys 9/11 recordings of air traffic controllers on day of interviews
Link NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/06/national/06CND-TAPE.html?ex=1084865280&ei=1&en=21c2fc316dcd78ef)



"The Bush Administration has been blasted in the barrage of coverage relating to how it lost more than 5 million emails generated between March 2003 and October 2005. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino offered an explanation that many Americans probably didn’t buy when she attributed the mysterious disappearance to a “technical glitch.” (http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005097.php)"

.... Clinton White House emails disappeared during his administration. In fact, thousands of messages, including those from the office of Vice President Al Gore, were not properly recorded to begin with and are irretrievable. Sheryl Hall, the Clinton White House computer expert who alerted us about this scandal, deserves kudos for bravely coming forward. Also brave was Clinton administration contractor whistleblower, Betty Lambuth, who discovered in 1998 that about 100,000 emails had not been preserved by a back-up system that was designed to store them in a single, searchable database.

It turns out the so-called backup system was missing mail from about 500 White House officials. Top Clinton White House officials used threats and intimidation to keep this scandal, including court testimony documents, from going public. These threats also kept the problem from being fixed and resulted in more lost emails.
All of this led to top Clintonites testifying under oath in federal court and criminal and congressional investigations.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2008/01/clinton-white-house-lost-emails-too/



the fed gov't has a double standard,
But a thin veil of lies is all that's needed for people to "move on" "look forward and not backward"

the federal gov't lies to us all the time and i find it hard to believe the party faithful continue to act as if gov't corruption is all other sides fault. And will buy into the various lame excuses of their side. and trust the gov't on issues that are too horrible to contemplate.