My Favorite War To Teach

[Kathianne]

Bi-Centennial:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/2014/08/23/abf407ae-24bd-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html


D.C.’s darkest day, a war that no one remembers

On Aug. 24, 1814, the British started a fire — and ultimately kindled a capital’s future.

7 a.m., Aug. 24, 1814
The day began like so many days in Washington, with a painfully long meeting marked by confusion, misinformation and indecision.

The British were coming. They were on the march in the general direction of Washington. The precise target of the invaders remained unclear, but their intentions were surely malign.

...

[Gaffer]

It's not a widely taught war. Most people only know about the Battle of New Orleans. Lots of other battles were fought including the running battles in the retreat from Washington. James Madison was the only president to ever personally command a military unit in combat while in office. And the British were forced to withdraw from Baltimore and Washington not because of a military defeat but because of a hurricane that hit coast shortly after the invasion. That damn storm screwed up everything.

Then there was the British stirring up the Indians and the great sea battles that were fought. Two years of war and the only thing remembered is the Battle of New Orleans. Which took place after the war was officially over.

[Kathianne]

It's not a widely taught war. Most people only know about the Battle of New Orleans. Lots of other battles were fought including the running battles in the retreat from Washington. James Madison was the only president to ever personally command a military unit in combat while in office. And the British were forced to withdraw from Baltimore and Washington not because of a military defeat but because of a hurricane that hit coast shortly after the invasion. That damn storm screwed up everything.

Then there was the British stirring up the Indians and the great sea battles that were fought. Two years of war and the only thing remembered is the Battle of New Orleans. Which took place after the war was officially over.

and with the Battle of New Orleans, we get our first intro to Andrew Jackson, in the most famous battle to take place AFTER the war was over.

Yep, the war begins the rise of 'Indian problems,' and Washington DC is burned. Borders with Canada become solidified. The Navy would not be as small as in 1812 again.

[aboutime]

A FAVORITE WAR? REALLY? I know you enjoy teaching about it. BUT...FAVORITE?

[Kathianne]

A FAVORITE WAR? REALLY? I know you enjoy teaching about it. BUT...FAVORITE?
I questioned my use of that word too, but I meant to the 'teaching' not to war in particular. Even with the 'silly little war' people were killed. Nope, war is not good.

[Gaffer]

A FAVORITE WAR? REALLY? I know you enjoy teaching about it. BUT...FAVORITE?

I would say it's her favorite war to teach because it's relatively unknown except as an offshoot of the Revolutionary War. I'll let her answer for herself, but that's my guess.

[Kathianne]

I would say it's her favorite war to teach because it's relatively unknown except as an offshoot of the Revolutionary War. I'll let her answer for herself, but that's my guess.

Yep, some of our traditions were born of that war. "Star Spangled Banner," for instance.

Always kids are interested in the obscure: Treaty of Ghent returned everything to what had been before the start of the war. However, it's often referred to as 'The Second American Revolution," as the English would no longer breach our sovereignty at will.

Having been teaching this in Illinois, the kids were fascinated by a 'war' on the Great Lakes.' LOL!

[aboutime]

I questioned my use of that word too, but I meant to the 'teaching' not to war in particular. Even with the 'silly little war' people were killed. Nope, war is not good.


Kathianne. Please know, I meant no disrespect for your passion of teaching. Perhaps I should have suggested another word as well.

I fully understand, and appreciate your desire to teach what OUR PRESENT DAY educational system is failing to teach. Based on all of the new crap we hear everyday about GOVT. directing what will, and won't be taught, and the arguments taking place about it.

I salute YOU, and all teachers for doing what you do. Guess I'm just becoming an Old Fuddy Duddy about the use of the word LOVE with the word WAR.:laugh:

[Trigg]

Yep, some of our traditions were born of that war. "Star Spangled Banner," for instance.

Always kids are interested in the obscure: Treaty of Ghent returned everything to what had been before the start of the war. However, it's often referred to as 'The Second American Revolution," as the English would no longer breach our sovereignty at will.

Having been teaching this in Illinois, the kids were fascinated by a 'war' on the Great Lakes.' LOL!

I think it's wonderful that you are teaching the lesser known wars. The more informed kids are the better.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0

[gabosaurus]

I learned about the American conflicts in school. I prefer 20th Century Europe. Much more interesting character studies.

[Kathianne]

I learned about the American conflicts in school. I prefer 20th Century Europe. Much more interesting character studies.


Which characters in Europe would you recommend be studied that aren't covered by the US curriculum?

[gabosaurus]

Which characters in Europe would you recommend be studied that aren't covered by the US curriculum?

All are covered sufficiently. I prefer to study them in greater depth. My favorite subject is WWII from the opposing point of view. How exactly did Germany get sucked into WWII? How did the everyday German live during the war years?

Most history books do not cover any of the American conflicts adequately. How many history books tell the correct story of the Spanish-American War, which was started by the U.S. Or how the U.S. lost the Viet Nam war due to inept leadership.

[Gunny]

All are covered sufficiently. I prefer to study them in greater depth. My favorite subject is WWII from the opposing point of view. How exactly did Germany get sucked into WWII? How did the everyday German live during the war years?

Most history books do not cover any of the American conflicts adequately. How many history books tell the correct story of the Spanish-American War, which was started by the U.S. Or how the U.S. lost the Viet Nam war due to inept leadership.




I'd love to have this discussion with you if you. Start another thread so we don't hijack Kathianne's.

Most Americans are not taught accurate history and I've watched it change so much that what is taught now in public school is watered-down, PC BS. I applaud any teacher that takes the time out to teach the truth. THAT is what they are there for.

[aboutime]

I'd love to have this discussion with you if you. Start another thread so we don't hijack Kathianne's.

Most Americans are not taught accurate history and I've watched it change so much that what is taught now in public school is watered-down, PC BS. I applaud any teacher that takes the time out to teach the truth. THAT is what they are there for.


Gunny. Totally agree with you. Don't want to destroy Kathianne's thread.

But..we sure can tell how Little Gabby actually knows..."How Germany got sucked into the war?"

[Gunny]

Gunny. Totally agree with you. Don't want to destroy Kathianne's thread.

But..we sure can tell how Little Gabby actually knows..."How Germany got sucked into the war?"

Like I said, that's for another thread. I love history. One of my favorite subjects. And I know it WELL, so she can go wherever she wants. :) She doesn't have to hijack a thread to do it.

What I didn't see mentioned is the catalyst for the War of 1812 was the British boarding US vessels and impressing its sailors.

[gabosaurus]

The Brits "celebrated" the 200th anniversary of their burning of the White House with a modern day tweet. Some Yanks saw no humor in it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/25/british-embassy-tweet-white-house-burning-1814

[Kathianne]

Like I said, that's for another thread. I love history. One of my favorite subjects. And I know it WELL, so she can go wherever she wants. :) She doesn't have to hijack a thread to do it.

What I didn't see mentioned is the catalyst for the War of 1812 was the British boarding US vessels and impressing its sailors.

Well that of course was the main reason it happened, Jefferson avoided that war, but let's not forget he ended up in Tripoli for a time. Madison had problems with England on the West and then impressing our sailors on the Atlantic, felt it had to stop. In the end, pretty much accomplished what he set out to do, though no borders were changed, just solidified. ;)

Just realized I've heard it called, "Mr. Madison's little war..." too!

As for Gabby's derision on the Spanish-American War, truly at least until Common Core, it has been dealt with a more even hand than she implies. I've known that yellow journalism played a huge role in bringing US into that war, indeed instigating it. I learned that back in the 60's.

Maybe CA had their own 'special' textbooks?

[gabosaurus]

My high school textbooks contained surprisingly little on the War of 1812. I did study it more in depth during a college elective that I took.

[Kathianne]

All are covered sufficiently. I prefer to study them in greater depth. My favorite subject is WWII from the opposing point of view. How exactly did Germany get sucked into WWII? How did the everyday German live during the war years?

Most history books do not cover any of the American conflicts adequately. How many history books tell the correct story of the Spanish-American War, which was started by the U.S. Or how the U.S. lost the Viet Nam war due to inept leadership.




Which European characters then should be studied more 'in depth' than they are by American curriculum?

Lloyd George? Hitler? Von Bismarck? Clemenceau? Mussolini? Atlee? Stalin? Churchill?

Which and why?

[Gunny]

The Brits "celebrated" the 200th anniversary of their burning of the White House with a modern day tweet. Some Yanks saw no humor in it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/25/british-embassy-tweet-white-house-burning-1814

One can only imagine what those people are like. Doesn't sound like any Brits I know. But, so what? They burned the White House and ran the government and population out of DC. Both are still there. The Brits ain't. Right? Not hard to win a battle and still lose a war. The war actually ended by a peace treaty, not on the battlefield. It was however symbolically the end of Britain's world dominance and bullying at will. That, more than any other reason makes the War of 1812 not just a silly little war. From that time on British authority and rule has declined.

They couldn't handle us and got their asses kicked twice trying to. And every other British colony in the world took not. They could be beaten.

[gabosaurus]

Which European characters then should be studied more 'in depth' than they are by American curriculum?

Lloyd George? Hitler? Von Bismarck? Clemenceau? Mussolini? Atlee? Stalin? Churchill?

Which and why?

More like Chamberlain, Goering, Himmler, Donitz, Speer and Bormann. Most misrepresented is Goebbels, the master of propaganda.

[Gunny]

More like Chamberlain, Goering, Himmler, Donitz, Speer and Bormann. Most misrepresented is Goebbels, the master of propaganda.




Wrong. DO I have to go start this thread FOR you? I'd figure someone of your enormous intellectual capabilities could start a thread. You click on "new thread"?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0769973.html


http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0769973.html

The War of 1812

1812-15
•U.S. troops engaged: 286,730
•American battle deaths: 2,260
•The U.S. declared war on Great Britain during its war with France.
•America passed a series of laws that closed its ports to British ships that were loaded with goods they planned to sell in the U.S.
•Colonists suspected that Britain was trying to prevent their western expansion by trying to claim land in what was then the Northwest Territory (now the Ohio River Valley) and arm American Indians.
•War was declared on June 18, 1812.
•Capt. Oliver Perry's victory on Lake Erie in September 1813 allowed American forces, under Gen. William Henry Harrison, to advance against the British, who burned Detroit and retreated into Canada.
•In August of 1814 a British expedition to Chesapeake Bay won an easy victory at Bladensburg and took Washington, burning the Capitol and the White House. The victorious British, however, were halted at Fort McHenry before they reached Baltimore, persuading British statesmen to end the war.
•The American victory at Fort McHenry near Baltimore inspired Francis Scott Key to write our national anthem, “The Star-Spangled Banner.”
•The Treaty of Ghent was signed in 1814. The British gave up their demands for the Great Lakes region and an American Indian state under British rule. It helped further establish the northern boundary with Canada. The loss of British support gave the Indians little choice but to give up their land in the Northwest Territory.

Battle of New Orleans is what made General Jackson into the hero that could then go on to become our President. He later treated the Native Americans very, very badly but then again he was President of the United States not the Indians. Too many critics forget that little fact IMHO. I have over a dozen books on Jackson , since he was a boyhood hero of mine.. The man was tough as hickory--hence his nickname --
Ole Hickory. Did you know he had some of his men hung for desertion?
Yep, dude was badass all the way. He also beat a sitting Congress man half to death and even scared brave men when he was pissed off.
My kind of guy!!!!! ;)-Tyr

[Gunny]

Well that of course was the main reason it happened, Jefferson avoided that war, but let's not forget he ended up in Tripoli for a time. Madison had problems with England on the West and then impressing our sailors on the Atlantic, felt it had to stop. In the end, pretty much accomplished what he set out to do, though no borders were changed, just solidified. ;)

Just realized I've heard it called, "Mr. Madison's little war..." too!

As for Gabby's derision on the Spanish-American War, truly at least until Common Core, it has been dealt with a more even hand than she implies. I've known that yellow journalism played a huge role in bringing US into that war, indeed instigating it. I learned that back in the 60's.

Maybe CA had their own 'special' textbooks?

Oh yes. You should have children in CA schools and be at constant odds with them. My daughter got sent home with an F because she had to write a report on MLK. They apparently didn't approve of the truth. The problem they have is when "daddy" shows up to object before work, he was in mod blues with ribbons and badges. You can intimidate the f- out of wimps when dressed like a Marine.

I can go on, but you'd just have to go to CA schools to understand. I went to them as a kid when my dad was stationed there. Teaching actual educational material is last on the list. They're more worried about controlling what your parent sends you to school with for a snack.

[Gunny]

Which European characters then should be studied more 'in depth' than they are by American curriculum?

Lloyd George? Hitler? Von Bismarck? Clemenceau? Mussolini? Atlee? Stalin? Churchill?

Which and why?

Charles Martel. He was the first to kick the crap out of the Muslims and send their little butts running. He was a tactical genius for his time and sent the ragheads hauling it back to Spain.

And his grandson was Charlemagne.

Just thought I'd throw one out that isn't a Nazi war criminal. :)