The truth about Ferguson

[Jeff]

Bill O'reilly Love him or hate him here are the facts !!!




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http://video.foxnews.com/v/3741094028001/the-truth-about-ferguson/?intcmp=obnetwork#sp=show-clips

[Jeff]

Wow Double Bill, sorry but I have no idea how I did it or how to fix it, just click on one :laugh: OK triple now

[grannyhawkins]

I thought the statistic that 91% of the perps that murdered blacks, were themselves black, was pretty tellin. I think the back community needs ta run ole Jessy, Al, Maxine, Sheila an every other racist black spokesperson outta the hood on a rail. All any of em have ever done is to exploit the black community for heir own benefit.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I thought the statistic that 91% of the perps that murdered blacks, were themselves black, was pretty tellin. I think the back community needs ta run ole Jessy, Al, Maxine, Sheila an every other racist black spokesperson outta the hood on a rail. All any of em have ever done is to exploit the black community for heir own benefit.


By: Patrick J. Buchanan
7/19/2013 09:58 AM


In the aftermath of the acquittal of George Zimmerman, Eric Holder, Al Sharpton and Ben Jealous of the NAACP are calling on the black community to rise up in national protest.

Yet they know — and Barack Obama, whose silence speaks volumes, knows — nothing is going to happen.




“Stand-Your-Ground” laws in Florida and other states are not going to be repealed. George Zimmerman is not going to be prosecuted for a federal “hate crime” in the death of Trayvon Martin.

The result of all this ginned-up rage that has produced vandalism and violence is simply going to be an ever-deepening racial divide.

Consider the matter of crime and fear of crime.

From listening to cable channels and hearing Holder, Sharpton, Jealous and others, one would think the great threat to black children today emanates from white vigilantes and white cops.

Hence, every black father must have a “conversation” with his son, warning him not to resist or run if pulled over or hassled by a cop.

Make the wrong move, son, and you may be dead is the implication.

But is this the reality in Black America?

When Holder delivered his 2009 “nation-of-cowards” speech blaming racism for racial separation, Manhattan Institute’s Heather Mac Donald suggested that our attorney general study his crime statistics.

In New York from January to June 2008, 83 percent of all gun assailants were black, according to witnesses and victims, though blacks were only 24 percent of the population. Blacks and Hispanics together accounted for 98 percent of all gun assailants. Forty-nine of every 50 muggings and murders in the Big Apple were the work of black or Hispanic criminals.

New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly confirms Mac Donald’s facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit 96 percent of all crimes in the city, he says, but only 85 percent of the stop-and-frisks are of blacks and Hispanics.

And these may involve the kind of pat-downs all of us have had at the airport.

Is stop-and-frisk the work of racist cops in New York, where the crime rate has been driven down to levels unseen in decades?

According to Kelly, a majority of his police force, which he has been able to cut from 41,000 officers to 35,000, is now made up of minorities.

But blacks are also, per capita, the principal victims of crime. Would black fathers prefer their sons to grow up in Chicago, rather than low-crime New York City, with its stop-and-frisk policy?

Fernando Mateo, head of the New York taxicab union, urges his drivers to profile blacks and Hispanics for their own safety: “The God’s honest truth is that 99 percent of the people that are robbing, stealing, killing these drivers are blacks and Hispanics.”

Mateo is what The New York Times would describe as “a black Hispanic” Yet he may be closer to the ‘hood than Holder, who says he was stopped by police when running to a movie — in Georgetown.

Which raises a relevant question. Georgetown is an elitist enclave of a national capital that has been ruled by black mayors for half a century. It’s never had a white mayor.

Is Holder saying we’ve got racist cops in the district where Obama carried 86 percent of the white vote and 97 percent of the black vote? And his son should fear the white cops in Washington, D.C.?

What about interracial crime, white-on-black attacks and the reverse?

After researching the FBI numbers for “Suicide of a Superpower,” this writer concluded: “An analysis of ‘single offender victimization figures’ from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white — with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study.”

Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse. By those 2007 numbers, a black male was 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse.

If interracial crime is the ugliest manifestation of racism, what does this tell us about where racism really resides — in America?

And if the FBI stats for 2007 represent an average year since the Tawana Brawley rape-hoax of 1987, over one-third of a million white women have been sexually assaulted by black males since 1987 — with no visible protest from the civil rights leadership.

Today, 73 percent of all black kids are born out of wedlock. Growing up, these kids drop out, use drugs, are unemployed, commit crimes and are incarcerated at many times the rate of Asians and whites — or Hispanics, who are taking the jobs that used to go to young black Americans.

Are white vigilantes or white cops really Black America’s problem?

Obama seems not to think so. The Rev. Sharpton notwithstanding, he is touting Ray Kelly as a possible chief of homeland security.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive to 2025?”

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

Folks need to understand that it is not racist to discuss a problem and not racist to dare say a negative about a black person.
If it is true it should be said. To solve problems one must first look at the true cause. The current policy is to tell people using TRUTH to just shut the hell up.
I do not play that crap. Anybody that doesn't like that can try to lump it..
This crap of playing the race card against those speaking TRUTH has got to stop.
When in person, face to face , I stop it cold. I allow no chump, fool , appeaser , liberal or idiot to stop me.
Anybody declaring that TRUTH is racist is in my opinion is quite insane!!
If the shoe fits, wear it.
I yield my principles to no man...
Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing--a FACT!!
Currently our government is pushing to rule this nation by denying whites in favor of the newly favored combination of blacks and Hispanics.
The above link and commentary shows what we can expect as that liberal/dem insanity proceeds forward!
Stats don't lie but some appeasing dumbasses do...- :laugh:--TYR

[Jeff]

Folks need to understand that it is not racist to discuss a problem and not racist to dare say a negative about a black person.
If it is true it should be said. To solve problems one must first look at the true cause. The current policy is to tell people using TRUTH to just shut the hell up.
I do not play that crap. Anybody that doesn't like that can try to lump it..
This crap of playing the race card against those speaking TRUTH has got to stop.
When in person, face to face , I stop it cold. I allow no chump, fool , appeaser , liberal or idiot to stop me.
Anybody declaring that TRUTH is racist is in my opinion is quite insane!!
If the shoe fits, wear it.
I yield my principles to no man...
Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing--a FACT!!
Currently our government is pushing to rule this nation by denying whites in favor of the newly favored combination of blacks and Hispanics.
The above link and commentary shows what we can expect as that liberal/dem insanity proceeds forward!
Stats don't lie but some appeasing dumbasses do...- :laugh:--TYR


This is the main reason that the blacks are rioting the way they do every time something happens that they don't like ( whether it is wrong or not, ya don't go rioting in the streets ) they do this because so many are busy appeasing them, send the dam National Guard in there and set a curfew for such and such a time, after that time take no prisoners !!! They are breaking the Law and people ought to stop feeling for these animals ( and no not all blacks are animals but the ones rioting in the streets are !!! ) These folks that scream about the poor black man give them all the ammo they need to do the things are seeing in Ferguson, why not treat them like any other American citizen, arrest them when they break the law and hold them accountable for there actions, no instead we have the bleeding hearts crying for them, ooo the Bad white cop, too many young black men in jail. or how about " if I had a some he would look like him " the list goes on of reasons these animals are going crazy.

They want equality ( or did at one point ) then hold them accountable for there actions !! What do you think would of happened if a bunch of bikers decided they where wronged and decided to go crazy like this, the cops would of opened fire and asked questions later.

[DebateDrone]

This is the main reason that the blacks are rioting the way they do every time something happens that they don't like ( whether it is wrong or not, ya don't go rioting in the streets ) they do this because so many are busy appeasing them, send the dam National Guard in there and set a curfew for such and such a time, after that time take no prisoners !!! They are breaking the Law and people ought to stop feeling for these animals ( and no not all blacks are animals but the ones rioting in the streets are !!! ) These folks that scream about the poor black man give them all the ammo they need to do the things are seeing in Ferguson, why not treat them like any other American citizen, arrest them when they break the law and hold them accountable for there actions, no instead we have the bleeding hearts crying for them, ooo the Bad white cop, too many young black men in jail. or how about " if I had a some he would look like him " the list goes on of reasons these animals are going crazy.

They want equality ( or did at one point ) then hold them accountable for there actions !! What do you think would of happened if a bunch of bikers decided they where wronged and decided to go crazy like this, the cops would of opened fire and asked questions later.

You are up on all the latest crime statistics pertaining to blacks...where did O'Reilly's statistic that 91% of black violence on blacks is committed by other blacks come from?

[jimnyc]

You are up on all the latest crime statistics pertaining to blacks...where did O'Reilly's statistic that 91% of black violence on blacks is committed by other blacks come from?

He stated twice in the video, prior to that stat, that his stats were coming from the FBI statistics.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He stated twice in the video, prior to that stat, that his stats were coming from the FBI statistics.

Gets me every time when I read a person asking questions that either didn't read or didn't understand the previous comments/facts presented in a thread. And this is not even a long thread .
Myself, I usually read all comments in a thread and very carefully the OP before I reply to the OP or any comment made by any person afterwards.
Due diligence goes a long way when attempting to discuss with others....... just sayin' ;)--Tyr

[Trigg]

You are up on all the latest crime statistics pertaining to blacks...where did O'Reilly's statistic that 91% of black violence on blacks is committed by other blacks come from?


FBI uniform crime statistics



Homicide

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex _of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2012.xls



http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

Bureau of Justice statistics


page 5 is very informative and puts the rate at 77.7 % for black offender/victim crimes. But the report is from 2001-2005

[Nukeman]

You are up on all the latest crime statistics pertaining to blacks...where did O'Reilly's statistic that 91% of black violence on blacks is committed by other blacks come from?
Ever hear of Google????????? all you have to do is type your question into the search and.... there it is..... Try it sometime!!!!!!!:poke:

[Kathianne]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

91% of black homicides are committed by blacks.
83% of white homicides are committed by whites.

While a significant difference, the majority of murders are by members of their own race. Likely has to do with opportunity and interactions.

[Kathianne]

Folks need to understand that it is not racist to discuss a problem and not racist to dare say a negative about a black person.
If it is true it should be said. To solve problems one must first look at the true cause. The current policy is to tell people using TRUTH to just shut the hell up.
I do not play that crap. Anybody that doesn't like that can try to lump it..
This crap of playing the race card against those speaking TRUTH has got to stop.
When in person, face to face , I stop it cold. I allow no chump, fool , appeaser , liberal or idiot to stop me.
Anybody declaring that TRUTH is racist is in my opinion is quite insane!!
If the shoe fits, wear it.
I yield my principles to no man...
Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing--a FACT!!
Currently our government is pushing to rule this nation by denying whites in favor of the newly favored combination of blacks and Hispanics.
The above link and commentary shows what we can expect as that liberal/dem insanity proceeds forward!
Stats don't lie but some appeasing dumbasses do...- :laugh:--TYR

Looking at the FBI stats from link I just posted a bit ago, most crimes including homicides are committed by young males in the lower socioeconomic strata. There are just more young, black men in the lower groups.

[jimnyc]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

91% of black homicides are committed by blacks.
83% of white homicides are committed by whites.

While a significant difference, the majority of murders are by members of their own race. Likely has to do with opportunity and interactions.

I think more telling are the totals. Based on the same scenario, there are about 3,000 offenses total by each race in that chart. But only one of those races makes up less than 15% of the population.

[Kathianne]

I think more telling are the totals. Based on the same scenario, there are about 3,000 offenses total by each race in that chart. But only one of those races makes up less than 15% of the population.

I'd refer back to post #12.

[fj1200]

Folks need to understand that it is not racist to discuss a problem and not racist to dare say a negative about a black person.

Correct. But this is:


Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing--a FACT!!


Race and crime
There is a widespread belief that race is a major explanatory cause of crime. This belief is anchored in the large disparity in crime rates between whites and blacks. However, a closer look at the data shows that the real variable is not race but family structure and all that it implies in commitment and love between adults. The incidence of broken families is much higher in the black community. Douglas Smith and G. Roger Jarjoura, in a major 1988 study of 11,000 individuals, found that "the percentage of single-parent households with children between the ages of 12 and 20 is significantly associated with rates of violent crime and burglary." The same study makes clear that the widespread popular assumption that there is an association between race and crime is false. Illegitimacy is the key factor. It is the absence of marriage, and the failure to form and maintain intact families, that explains the incidence of high crime in a neighborhood among whites as well as blacks. This contradicts conventional wisdom.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1995/03/bg1026nbsp-the-real-root-causes-of-violent-crime

[Kathianne]

I have to agree with FJ on this one. Truth is that young males with no jobs and little money from broken families are more likely to commit crimes than any other group. Young, black males fit this more than any other group. Take Chicago for example, we all know what the crime and shootings in particular are like there:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/24486694/new-study-finds-92-percent-of-african-american-male-teens-are-unemployed


New study finds 92 percent of African American male teens are unemployed

osted: Jan 17, 2014 6:54 PM PSTUpdated: Jan 24, 2014 6:54 PM PSTBy Mike Flannery, FOX 32 News Political Editor

CHICAGO (FOX 32 News) -Startling new figures about the state of our economy have recently come out.

Ninety-two percent of African American male teenagers in Chicago don't have a job.

A trend that continues to head in the wrong direction, for white and Hispanic teens, too.

The jobs catastrophe here is far worse than the national average.

...

[fj1200]

I have to agree with FJ on this one. Truth is that young males with no jobs and little money from broken families are more likely to commit crimes than any other group. Young, black males fit this more than any other group. Take Chicago for example, we all know what the crime and shootings in particular are like there:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/24486694/new-study-finds-92-percent-of-african-american-male-teens-are-unemployed

And what is amazing to me is how so many are avoiding the real boogeyman. psst, government

[Kathianne]

And what is amazing to me is how so many are avoiding the real boogeyman. psst, government

Indeed. Government that has destroyed black families through the "War on Poverty" and through bad practices regarding schools has earned a huge share of the blame.

This thread and this one (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?46380-Beaten-to-Death-at-McDonald-s/page2) have cross ideas going here. Truth is, the government's DOJ involvement and comments from Obama and Holder have done much to make racism OK again. IF it had been reversed races between the 'kid' and 'officer' the government would not be involved.

Similarly at the McDonald's incident in TX, if it had been 4 black students and a white group of attackers, it would have been national news.

Thus the 24 hour media shares a whopping load of the spiraling down of race relations.

[jimnyc]

I'd refer back to post #12.

Be that as it may, everyone has a choice whether to turn to crime or not, especially violent crime. There are many, many folks in the same/similar situations that don't end up being a violent statistic.

I see it as an explanation of sorts, but far, far, far from an excuse.

Don't bite me, my own words, not trying to place words in your mouth! :poke::beer:

[Kathianne]

Be that as it may, everyone has a choice whether to turn to crime or not, especially violent crime. There are many, many folks in the same/similar situations that don't end up being a violent statistic.

I see it as an explanation of sorts, but far, far, far from an excuse.

Don't bite me, my own words, not trying to place words in your mouth! :poke::beer:

I won't bite. ;) However what I wrote was not 'an excuse,' rather statistics from both FBI and job stats in Chicago.

[jimnyc]

I won't bite. ;) However what I wrote was not 'an excuse,' rather statistics from both FBI and job stats in Chicago.

Oh, I know that, I even used your reference in my stats. I was only referring to the low socioeconomic portion, as I've heard that for many years. While that may be a part of reasoning, it sure doesn't excuse any of the crimes. Others tend to use it as an excuse, or to even blame others for why these crimes are committed.

[grannyhawkins]

And what is amazing to me is how so many are avoiding the real boogeyman. psst, government

The governments only fault in the issues with the black community, can only be the war on poverty. The government, doesn't knock up black women, the government doesn't tell black men an women not to work, or go do drugs, quit school, prostitute themselves, rob, rape or pillage. This is the behavior of barbarians!!! The fault lies squarely on the backs of the black community, the black leadership and first and foremost the black individual.

Blacks in the U.S of A, have every opportunity that everyone one else has, there is no slavery, except in the black psyche of what's left of the black nuclear family unit. Blacks get 12+years of public schoolin, the taxpayers, try to keep a roof over their heads and some food in their bellies. There's scholarship money available just for black kids with some college and employment quotas and there are employment possibilities for blacks, but for whatever reason, it seems that blacks want to blame everyone an everything, for their own personal failures.

I can tell y'all first hand my personal life struggle and it wasn't always pretty. Some of my problems, were poor decisions as a youngster, but most were the disintegration of my white nuclear family unit, but there was no government help for me, not one red cent and I sure coulda used some. The only solution to my problems were to work every single day and I'm still workin.

I do believe we need to help those who can't help themselves, no matter the color, especially those of us that were lucky enough to have been born in this country and those, first and foremost!!! But, I can't look at this issue, somewhat from the outside in and blame our government, when their are numerous black success stories that were helped by the war on poverty. The black community, as a whole, needs to take a good long look in the mirror.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Looking at the FBI stats from link I just posted a bit ago, most crimes including homicides are committed by young males in the lower socioeconomic strata. There are just more young, black men in the lower groups.

So is it your judgment that the higher rate of violence is solely due to age????
I can see age being a factor but not to that degree because if so --why doesn't the same -age factor- play out the same in the white race rate of violence?
Others keep saying(not you) that my statement is false and/or racist but instead they keep on attempting to justify -why-- the level of violence is higher.
That does nothing to prove my statement false and has very little to do with my argument that TRUTH can not be in itself racist.
I state what I contend to be a fact(backed by crime stats) and I was attacked , called a racist for having stated a simple fact.
The why and how of it being a fact has nothing to do with it being or not being a fact.
As I did not delve into the why other than additionally I added my comment about the black culture--which also got me called a racist too!
Those playing the race card falsely accuse to shut up the truth IMHO..
I am not in charge of correcting them(the blacks) so the why doesn't interest me and it certainly does not prove me to be a racist for citing a fact which FBI crime stats so clearly reveal. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Indeed. Government that has destroyed black families through the "War on Poverty" and through bad practices regarding schools has earned a huge share of the blame.

This thread and this one (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?46380-Beaten-to-Death-at-McDonald-s/page2) have cross ideas going here. Truth is, the government's DOJ involvement and comments from Obama and Holder have done much to make racism OK again. IF it had been reversed races between the 'kid' and 'officer' the government would not be involved.

Similarly at the McDonald's incident in TX, if it had been 4 black students and a white group of attackers, it would have been national news.

Thus the 24 hour media shares a whopping load of the spiraling down of race relations.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kathianne again.

[Kathianne]

So is it your judgment that the higher rate of violence is solely due to age????
I can see age being a factor but not to that degree because if so --why doesn't the same -age factor- play out the same in the white race rate of violence?
Others keep saying(not you) that my statement is false and/or racist but instead they keep on attempting to justify -why-- the level of violence is higher.
That does nothing to prove my statement false and has very little to do with my argument that TRUTH can not be in itself racist.
I state what I contend to be a fact(backed by crime stats) and I was attacked , called a racist for having stated a simple fact.
The why and how of it being a fact has nothing to do with it being or not being a fact.
As I did not delve into the why other than additionally I added my comment about the black culture--which also got me called a racist too!
Those playing the race card falsely accuse to shut up the truth IMHO..
I am not in charge of correcting them(the blacks) so the why doesn't interest me and it certainly does not prove me to be a racist for citing a fact which FBI crime stats so clearly reveal. -Tyr

I'm not sure that you're understanding my point, it wasn't solely based upon age. As I wrote to Jim, it's not a matter of 'an excuse,' far from being one.

Young adult males have always held the tops in crimes, including homicides. What is usually common is:

lower socioeconomic status
low education attainment
no job
broken families

Young, black adult males are over-represented in all off the above points.

[Kathianne]

Oh, I know that, I even used your reference in my stats. I was only referring to the low socioeconomic portion, as I've heard that for many years. While that may be a part of reasoning, it sure doesn't excuse any of the crimes. Others tend to use it as an excuse, or to even blame others for why these crimes are committed.

All of the issues associated with 'low economic status' and young, adult males, also pertains to white young, adult males. Again, not an 'excuse,' just the way it is and has been for a long, long time.

Young blacks are just found in greater numbers within the lower socioeconomic strata and the resultant attributes, thus for their lower percentage of the population, they actually are over-represented when it comes to propensity of participation in crimes.

[Trigg]

Yes, black families are over represented compaired to their population in the lower economic group. In fact according to this study www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=411936


They make up around 22% (2.9 million) versus whites at 42% of low income familes with children.

However if you consider that young black ( 0-29) males only make up between 8-9 million people versus 19 million young white males the same age. They are still vastly over represented in crime statistics. There is no way they should represent HALF of homicides in this country when their population is so much lower.

So there has to be another answer for why young black males commit so many more crimes than other racial groups. Personally I think it has to do with the attitude they are brought up with. I think many are brought up to think that people are out to get them, in fact if they watch the news they are told this on almost a daily basis, they don't even need to be told this at home. Even Obama has said that blacks have it harder than anyone else, at a college commencement no less.

If someone is told this from a young age I can see where they would feel rage and hopelessness against not only white people but any establishment.

Economic status among other things maybe contributing factors, but I think attitude towards "the man" is the main reason behind the extrordinarly high black percentages in crimes. I also can't think of any other group that is so willing to close ranks and defend criminals simply because they happen to be black.

[Gunny]

The truth about Ferguson is I'm ready to shoot my tv. I'm sick of it. If this was a white kid and a black cop, we wouldn't even know his name nor where "Ferguson" is. The media has just beat this horse to death it's at the pathetic and annoying level. Nothing the police have said is "right", and they got this dumbass's parents demanding "justice" all over the news.

This cop needs to move to Costa Rica now. The media and the PC have him convicted already.

I watch this crap and just shake my head.

[Jeff]

The truth about Ferguson is I'm ready to shoot my tv. I'm sick of it. If this was a white kid and a black cop, we wouldn't even know his name nor where "Ferguson" is. The media has just beat this horse to death it's at the pathetic and annoying level. Nothing the police have said is "right", and they got this dumbass's parents demanding "justice" all over the news.

This cop needs to move to Costa Rica now. The media and the PC have him convicted already.

I watch this crap and just shake my head.

How right you are Gunny, I happened along this article, notice no riots no looting and no press !!!



Black cop kills white man, media hide race



While national news media continue to focus on race in Ferguson, Missouri, where a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, they apparently don’t think a similar case in Utah with the races reversed is that newsworthy.
Police in Salt Lake City are continuing their probe into an Aug. 11 shooting outside a 7-Eleven convenience store, when a black police officer, whom local media are referring to as “not white,” shot and killed 20-year-old Dillon Taylor, who was unarmed at the time, according to his supporters.
Police Chief Chris Burbank said the entire incident was captured on the body camera of the officer who shot Taylor.






Now this White kid may of been guilty of something I am not sure but then again neither are the animals in Ferguson, but I am sure that this isn't front page news nor are the people acting like animals in this town.

And yes a quick google search of Black officer shooting white man does come up with quite a few stories, funny how none make the main stream news !!

[Kathianne]

Yes, black families are over represented compaired to their population in the lower economic group. In fact according to this study www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=411936 (http://www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=411936)


They make up around 22% (2.9 million) versus whites at 42% of low income familes with children.

However if you consider that young black ( 0-29) males only make up between 8-9 million people versus 19 million young white males the same age. They are still vastly over represented in crime statistics. There is no way they should represent HALF of homicides in this country when their population is so much lower.

So there has to be another answer for why young black males commit so many more crimes than other racial groups. Personally I think it has to do with the attitude they are brought up with. I think many are brought up to think that people are out to get them, in fact if they watch the news they are told this on almost a daily basis, they don't even need to be told this at home. Even Obama has said that blacks have it harder than anyone else, at a college commencement no less.

If someone is told this from a young age I can see where they would feel rage and hopelessness against not only white people but any establishment.

Economic status among other things maybe contributing factors, but I think attitude towards "the man" is the main reason behind the extrordinarly high black percentages in crimes. I also can't think of any other group that is so willing to close ranks and defend criminals simply because they happen to be black.

Quite agree. There are 'cultural differences' within all groups, then there are the differences in families and how they hold together.

Kids from broken homes, across the socioeconomic spectrum in general have more issues than those from intact families; those in homes brought up with 'church' tend to have fewer problems than those not; those that do better in school tend to not have interactions with police...

Within each strata of the spectrum there are differences. When families break apart or children are born out of wedlock, a determining factor of moving up or down is the employability of the parent with the child(ren). Second is support available, especially for older children. More white parents, especially single parents are likely to have 'healthy' support systems for their children-be it grandparents, siblings, friends. Not only physical support, but also parenting support. Even if the parent can't 'raise the child' out of poverty, the child is likely to adopt, nor parent to hold the 'values' generally associated with that income level. The kids are cared for, dressed, fed, and gotten to school. The support system may allow for the enrichment of the children more often several rungs above where the family income actually is.

That's the thing about 'socioeconomic,' it can't be measured by $$ alone. There's a 'culture' within each that's a broad generalization. If those 'cultural norms' are not adopted or rejected, odds change drastically for movement up or down.

A kid raised in a loving, two parent home that chooses to use drugs and/or alcohol in middle-high school, in all likelihood will not have the values the parents tried to instill.

The kid one sees every May or June that was raised by an addict mother, been on the streets for the last 2-3 years of high school and graduated at the top of their class? Rejection of the values he/she was raised with and all that his/her eyes saw on the streets. Simply a rejection of the norms, choosing the values of a group several rungs above.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The truth about Ferguson is I'm ready to shoot my tv. I'm sick of it. If this was a white kid and a black cop, we wouldn't even know his name nor where "Ferguson" is. The media has just beat this horse to death it's at the pathetic and annoying level. Nothing the police have said is "right", and they got this dumbass's parents demanding "justice" all over the news.

This cop needs to move to Costa Rica now. The media and the PC have him convicted already.

I watch this crap and just shake my head.
Exact same thing that Obama and the lying lame-stream media did in the Trayvon case. Stir up the blacks to try to gain political advantage with in the coming election.
I am sick of it too and refuse to watch anymore of ffing lies and media/political propaganda!
Trayvon was just an innocent little black boy, now they say this stealing punk was just an innocent little black boy. - :bsflag: :puke: -Tyr

[namvet]

this fella seems a little irked about cry baby blacks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B092acMImJE&app=desktop

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

this fella seems a little irked about cry baby blacks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B092acMImJE&app=desktop
Dude is right. That truth will be rejected and if his video gets too much attention watch for the media and certain black groups to try to destroy him. Hell, Obama's new bro's the New Black Panthers may put out a hit on him even.
TRUTH so pretty to see but always so often attacked viciously.
I posted that truth here and was attacked viciously, personally and had my family insulted too.
Yet I never yield , never give up , never appease and never stop posting truth..
I take my hits with pride and will do so until I am planted six feet under.
A man must stand for something or else he will fall for anything..
Libs, dems, fools , asshats , muslims , appeasers and other assorted vermin I firmly oppose very damn one of you moronic, deceiving little cowards! A fact.. -Tyr

[red state]

Question: Didn't Dr. Ben Carson come from a poor, somewhat fatherless home? At age 10, his world changed and the family split (his dad in the South and his mother and siblings moving to the North). As much as I like Dr. Carson, he has a streak of racism that can not be ignored and I hope that I never here such words as the quote I have provided from Dr. Carson, come out of the lips of Allen West (someone who I admire greatly). QUOTE: When discussing young black males Carson said that they finally had their role model via B.O. ".....It's absolutely a wonderful thing that our country can elect somebody who looks like Barack Obama....."

As for the percentage of murders....one needs to break it down further by considering the percentage of murder and rape OVERALL to get an adequate picture.....not just compare white on white and black on black crimes. It is obvious to me that MOST crimes (ALL CRIMES; regardless of whom the crimes are directed toward, are from those (the minority groups) who make up the MAJORITY within our correctional institutions. The substantial difference will be found in that statistic....not the statistic which suggests the 90%+ and 80%+ scenario. I guarantee.

[fj1200]

The governments only fault in the issues with the black community, can only be the war on poverty. The government, doesn't knock up black women, the government doesn't tell black men an women not to work, or go do drugs, quit school, prostitute themselves, rob, rape or pillage. This is the behavior of barbarians!!! The fault lies squarely on the backs of the black community, the black leadership and first and foremost the black individual.

... The black community, as a whole, needs to take a good long look in the mirror.

To merely look at one statistic and one stereotype is to avoid looking at the actual problem. The actual problem are the socio-economic factors that lead to what we see. The status of the black family has plummeted since the War on Poverty and the Civil Rights Act and to spout about what blacks are "more prone to do" avoids reality and destroys the credibility of those saying it.


That does nothing to prove my statement false and has very little to do with my argument that TRUTH can not be in itself racist.
I state what I contend to be a fact(backed by crime stats) and I was attacked , called a racist for having stated a simple fact.


But you're avoiding actual truth and clinging to what validates your POV.


Economic status among other things maybe contributing factors, but I think attitude towards "the man" is the main reason behind the extrordinarly high black percentages in crimes. I also can't think of any other group that is so willing to close ranks and defend criminals simply because they happen to be black.

And how would you explain the statistics?

[aboutime]

Something I discovered earlier today for everyone to DECIDE, and Scratch your head about:

"Ferguson Gang Leader Admits “Eric Holder Paid Us To Start Riots”
Posted on August 25, 2014
Holder

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Check it out:

Eric Holder’s career has survived a long list of scandals; The 2008 Black Panther debacle, overturning Arizona’s immigration laws and ‘Fast and Furious‘ immediately spring to mind. These, however, pale in comparison to the recent allegations against Holder, the likes of which could easily land the Attorney General behind bars.

Evidence has been uncovered showing Eric Holder contributed funds to Ferguson’s gang population as incentive to loot and spread civil unrest in the area. These angry, government-sponsored terrorists have systematically infiltrated peaceful protests with the intention of escalating the situation and inciting riots.

A local gang leader came forward last week after being arrested during a night of mass-looting. The unnamed criminal is using his information to bargain for a reduced sentence.




Holder

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Check it out:

Eric Holder’s career has survived a long list of scandals; The 2008 Black Panther debacle, overturning Arizona’s immigration laws and ‘Fast and Furious‘ immediately spring to mind. These, however, pale in comparison to the recent allegations against Holder, the likes of which could easily land the Attorney General behind bars.

Evidence has been uncovered showing Eric Holder contributed funds to Ferguson’s gang population as incentive to loot and spread civil unrest in the area. These angry, government-sponsored terrorists have systematically infiltrated peaceful protests with the intention of escalating the situation and inciting riots.

A local gang leader came forward last week after being arrested during a night of mass-looting. The unnamed criminal is using his information to bargain for a reduced sentence.

Continue Reading on nationalreport.net ...


Read more at http://conservativebyte.com/2014/08/ferguson-gang-leader-admits-eric-holder-paid-us-start-riots/#5zSf7TDO5BmMQK59.99[/URL]

[Gaffer]

This doesn't surprise me AT, I'm surprised the gang leader came out with the info. He might get a lighter sentence, but holder will make sure he has a short life span.

I think holder is more dangerous than the president. He's a true racist. Him being in charge of the Justice Department is like Dracula being appointed Pope.

[namvet]

Something I discovered earlier today for everyone to DECIDE, and Scratch your head about:

"Ferguson Gang Leader Admits “Eric Holder Paid Us To Start Riots”
Posted on August 25, 2014
Holder

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Check it out:

Eric Holder’s career has survived a long list of scandals; The 2008 Black Panther debacle, overturning Arizona’s immigration laws and ‘Fast and Furious‘ immediately spring to mind. These, however, pale in comparison to the recent allegations against Holder, the likes of which could easily land the Attorney General behind bars.

Evidence has been uncovered showing Eric Holder contributed funds to Ferguson’s gang population as incentive to loot and spread civil unrest in the area. These angry, government-sponsored terrorists have systematically infiltrated peaceful protests with the intention of escalating the situation and inciting riots.

A local gang leader came forward last week after being arrested during a night of mass-looting. The unnamed criminal is using his information to bargain for a reduced sentence.




Holder

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Check it out:

Eric Holder’s career has survived a long list of scandals; The 2008 Black Panther debacle, overturning Arizona’s immigration laws and ‘Fast and Furious‘ immediately spring to mind. These, however, pale in comparison to the recent allegations against Holder, the likes of which could easily land the Attorney General behind bars.

Evidence has been uncovered showing Eric Holder contributed funds to Ferguson’s gang population as incentive to loot and spread civil unrest in the area. These angry, government-sponsored terrorists have systematically infiltrated peaceful protests with the intention of escalating the situation and inciting riots.

A local gang leader came forward last week after being arrested during a night of mass-looting. The unnamed criminal is using his information to bargain for a reduced sentence.

Continue Reading on nationalreport.net ...


Read more at http://conservativebyte.com/2014/08/ferguson-gang-leader-admits-eric-holder-paid-us-start-riots/#5zSf7TDO5BmMQK59.99[/URL]

i can believe this except why start in a small town?? maybe because its so close to ST Louis

[Gaffer]

I think the plan is to start anywhere and then inspire others in other cities. A black uprising throughout the country give the administration the excuse needed for martial law. Takes time and complete cooperation from the media.

[namvet]

I think the plan is to start anywhere and then inspire others in other cities. A black uprising throughout the country give the administration the excuse needed for martial law. Takes time and complete cooperation from the media.

i wouldn't put anything past these darkies

[Trigg]

To merely look at one statistic and one stereotype is to avoid looking at the actual problem. The actual problem are the socio-economic factors that lead to what we see. The status of the black family has plummeted since the War on Poverty and the Civil Rights Act and to spout about what blacks are "more prone to do" avoids reality and destroys the credibility of those saying it.


And how would you explain the statistics?

I said I don't think the blame can be squarely placed at the foot of socio-economic factors. Did you miss the portion of my post where I agreed the blacks are over represented in lower income families?


Yes, black families are over represented compared to their population in the lower economic group.


However, I don't believe that socio-economic factors are the main thing at fault here, due to the fact that the number of whites in low income families vastly outnumbers blacks in the same position.

Blacks have had decades of victim mentality spoon fed to them. I think this, more than anything else, is what prevents them from moving up in society and makes them more prone to "circle the wagons" whenever one of them is killed by someone other than another black person. No matter if the person is proven to be a thug or not.

[aboutime]

I said I don't think the blame can be squarely placed at the foot of socio-economic factors. Did you miss the portion of my post where I agreed the blacks are over represented in lower income families?




However, I don't believe that socio-economic factors are the main thing at fault here, due to the fact that the number of whites in low income families vastly outnumbers blacks in the same position.

Blacks have had decades of victim mentality spoon fed to them. I think this, more than anything else, is what prevents them from moving up in society and makes them more prone to "circle the wagons" whenever one of them is killed by someone other than another black person. No matter if the person is proven to be a thug or not.


Trigg. And, I do believe all of us, both Black, and White can agree that That VICTIM Mentality is never permitted to go away as long as a HUCKSTER like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Obama, Holder, the NAACP, and the Congressional Black Caucus can convince Black Americans to PROLIFERATE, and NEVER STOP COMPLAINING about being the Perpetual VICTIMS. Even while larger numbers of SMARTER, more Educated Black Americans begin to enjoy what used to be THE AMERICAN DREAM...the Black victims were taught..ONLY WERE FOR WHITE AMERICANS.

[fj1200]

I said I don't think the blame can be squarely placed at the foot of socio-economic factors. Did you miss the portion of my post where I agreed the blacks are over represented in lower income families?

However, I don't believe that socio-economic factors are the main thing at fault here, due to the fact that the number of whites in low income families vastly outnumbers blacks in the same position.

Blacks have had decades of victim mentality spoon fed to them. I think this, more than anything else, is what prevents them from moving up in society and makes them more prone to "circle the wagons" whenever one of them is killed by someone other than another black person. No matter if the person is proven to be a thug or not.

I didn't miss that part but everybody keeps talking about what they think and not addressing studies that don't bear out opinions. I can agree that there are issues but there isn't going to be any solution to the problem until it's correctly identified. If we keep wanting to say that they are "more prone" then the solution is more jails while the problem self perpetuates, the other option is to come up with policies that strengthen the family, increase economic opportunities, etc. We want them to move up in society but that is virtually impossible when the welfare policies that have gotten us to where we are are combined with minimum wage and regulatory rules that destroy job opportunities at the lowest levels, where more blacks reside unfortunately, assuring that they are unable to move up.

[Gunny]

OMG. Did anyone watch this funeral? Shows you how bored I am. Racism?

I would like for ANYONE to explain to me how that verbose POS preacher was not being inciteful and promoting racism and division. I had to get up and change the channel. He went on and on and on making all these warped comparisons between this incident, the bible, and comparing this kid to Abel and Jesus. A man of the cloth -- and you don't have to be religious to understand this -- justifying lawless violence in the name of nothing more than keeping hatred alive is a traitor to everything he is supposed to stand for.

I didn't kill the TV though. Be too quiet around here. :laugh:

[aboutime]

OMG. Did anyone watch this funeral? Shows you how bored I am. Racism?

I would like for ANYONE to explain to me how that verbose POS preacher was not being inciteful and promoting racism and division. I had to get up and change the channel. He went on and on and on making all these warped comparisons between this incident, the bible, and comparing this kid to Abel and Jesus. A man of the cloth -- and you don't have to be religious to understand this -- justifying lawless violence in the name of nothing more than keeping hatred alive is a traitor to everything he is supposed to stand for.

I didn't kill the TV though. Be too quiet around here. :laugh:


Gunny. Didn't watch any of it. I did hear that Sharpton would be there to give the eulogy. That was all I needed to know. Predictably. Anyone who has ever heard his Pure, Unadulterated, Hate filled, Trash mouth, Lying scumbag voice knows....Trash in-Trash out.

[grannyhawkins]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by grannyhawkins http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=700579#post700579) The governments only fault in the issues with the black community, can only be the war on poverty. The government, doesn't knock up black women, the government doesn't tell black men an women not to work, or go do drugs, quit school, prostitute themselves, rob, rape or pillage. This is the behavior of barbarians!!! The fault lies squarely on the backs of the black community, the black leadership and first and foremost the black individual.

... The black community, as a whole, needs to take a good long look in the mirror.


To merely look at one statistic and one stereotype is to avoid looking at the actual problem. The actual problem are the socio-economic factors that lead to what we see. The status of the black family has plummeted since the War on Poverty and the Civil Rights Act and to spout about what blacks are "more prone to do" avoids reality and destroys the credibility of those saying it.

And just who's fault is that??? Is that whitey's fault, that since the war on poverty and.......civil rights, blacks are worse off??? That's yur conclusin, not mine!!!

[Gunny]

Gunny. Didn't watch any of it. I did hear that Sharpton would be there to give the eulogy. That was all I needed to know. Predictably. Anyone who has ever heard his Pure, Unadulterated, Hate filled, Trash mouth, Lying scumbag voice knows....Trash in-Trash out.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. ;)

[grannyhawkins]

I didn't miss that part but everybody keeps talking about what they think and not addressing studies that don't bear out opinions. I can agree that there are issues but there isn't going to be any solution to the problem until it's correctly identified. If we keep wanting to say that they are "more prone" then the solution is more jails while the problem self perpetuates, the other option is to come up with policies that strengthen the family, increase economic opportunities, etc. We want them to move up in society but that is virtually impossible when the welfare policies that have gotten us to where we are are combined with minimum wage and regulatory rules that destroy job opportunities at the lowest levels, where more blacks reside unfortunately, assuring that they are unable to move up.

All the rules and regulations, were set up ta give blacks a hand up!!! I started my workin career at 25 cents an hour, puttin up hay for the winter, I milked 40 ta 50 head of Holsteins 365 days a year for 65 dollars a week plus room and board. The 65 dollars a week, meant sittin on a tractor, plantin, fixin fence, pickin stone, cleanin up cow shat, pullin calves from the uterus, while tastin after birth, artificially inseminatin, harvestin, fixin barns, cuttin horns and cauterizin and a whole lot more, from sunup to well past sundown.

Nobody, no matter the flavor, will ever get ahead workin just 40 hours a week, but you do have ta drag yur sorry arse outta bed, each and everyday, to even get a start and the government subsidies are never gonna give you the good life you desire, yur gonna have to put some effort inta that!!!

[aboutime]

All the rules and regulations, were set up ta give blacks a hand up!!! I started my workin career at 25 cents an hour, puttin up hay for the winter, I milked 40 ta 50 head of Holsteins 365 days a year for 65 dollars a week plus room and board. The 65 dollars a week, meant sittin on a tractor, plantin, fixin fence, pickin stone, cleanin up cow shat, pullin calves from the uterus, while tastin after birth, artificially inseminatin, harvestin, fixin barns, cuttin horns and cauterizin and a whole lot more, from sunup to well past sundown.

Nobody, no matter the flavor, will ever get ahead workin just 40 hours a week, but you do have ta drag yur sorry arse outta bed, each and everyday, to even get a start and the government subsidies are never gonna give you the good life you desire, yur gonna have to put some effort inta that!!!


Thanks granny. Absolutely, and totally agree. Today's "ME" generation of "I", has been nearly completely extorted into believing that the word "WORK" is something for fools, when the alternative is an "UNCLE SAM HANDOUT".

Even those who feel working for minimum wage is Unconstitutional, and demanding higher pay HATE HAVING TO WORK for anyone, or anything when they can get it "FREE" from UNCLE SAM for Life.

Most of what you spoke about above might as well be in a FOREIGN Language because it requires at least a minimum of (as you have said in the past) Edgu-ma-cation. And our society today isn't something anyone wants to brag about anymore.

[Gunny]

I think the plan is to start anywhere and then inspire others in other cities. A black uprising throughout the country give the administration the excuse needed for martial law. Takes time and complete cooperation from the media.

Now how much sense does THAT make? Put the very people in control (the police) you're trying to crucify?

[red state]

I'll play devil's advocate and fill in for the libs who seem to be absent here....................so, here it goes. Whitey is there to keep us down and we can NEVER get ahead until we have a black president, black attorney general, an ALL black military and a law that prohibits whites from owning a business, voting or expressing their racist hatred (which is why we can't find work, get harrassed by the po po and find ourselves without fathers, hooked on drugs or feel the need to rape and loot). Now, for the defense of liberals: Our country will NEVER "progress" to a utopia until we have TOTAL control by de-fanging and de-clawing the christian/conservative movement that has capitalized from their capitalistic ways which keeps EVERYONE down, destroys our environment and limits our freedom to abort babies, enjoy drugs, sell our bodies and "do it in the road". If we could only tip the scale by overwhelming whitey through the masses and prohibit them from passing laws, voting or expressing their views, we will have "utopia". We may all die by the sword of iSLUM or fall victim to catastrophic diseases and mass poverty but as long as it feels good, we'll be happy for a season and that is truly all that matters anyway since there is no god or afterlife............unless we come back as a cow or some other creature.

So, how'd I do? Who needs liberals.....we already know their ignorance, hatred and mindset by heart. Some of us were once liberal minded ourselves but thank GOD that we were either moderate in this insanity known as liberalism or simply grew out of it with age and wisdom.

[red state]

http://www.investors.com/image/RAMclr082414-foley-IBD-COLOR-FINAL-147.gif.cms

This same cartoon applies to most ALL of the occurrences during this administration.....and Michael forgot to add the teleprompters!!!!

[Gunny]

I'll play devil's advocate and fill in for the libs who seem to be absent here....................so, here it goes. Whitey is there to keep us down and we can NEVER get ahead until we have a black president, black attorney general, an ALL black military and a law that prohibits whites from owning a business, voting or expressing their racist hatred (which is why we can't find work, get harrassed by the po po and find ourselves without fathers, hooked on drugs or feel the need to rape and loot). Now, for the defense of liberals: Our country will NEVER "progress" to a utopia until we have TOTAL control by de-fanging and de-clawing the christian/conservative movement that has capitalized from their capitalistic ways which keeps EVERYONE down, destroys our environment and limits our freedom to abort babies, enjoy drugs, sell our bodies and "do it in the road". If we could only tip the scale by overwhelming whitey through the masses and prohibit them from passing laws, voting or expressing their views, we will have "utopia". We may all die by the sword of iSLUM or fall victim to catastrophic diseases and mass poverty but as long as it feels good, we'll be happy for a season and that is truly all that matters anyway since there is no god or afterlife............unless we come back as a cow or some other creature.

So, how'd I do? Who needs liberals.....we already know their ignorance, hatred and mindset by heart. Some of us were once liberal minded ourselves but thank GOD that we were either moderate in this insanity known as liberalism or simply grew out of it with age and wisdom.

I KNOW y'all think I'm this sweet, nice humble guy .... I'm coming back as someone hardass that takes no shit. :laugh:

[Gunny]

And I want to know how many people choked and or spit coffee or soda on their screens reading my last post.:laugh:

[Trigg]

I didn't miss that part but everybody keeps talking about what they think and not addressing studies that don't bear out opinions. I can agree that there are issues but there isn't going to be any solution to the problem until it's correctly identified. If we keep wanting to say that they are "more prone" then the solution is more jails while the problem self perpetuates, the other option is to come up with policies that strengthen the family, increase economic opportunities, etc. We want them to move up in society but that is virtually impossible when the welfare policies that have gotten us to where we are are combined with minimum wage and regulatory rules that destroy job opportunities at the lowest levels, where more blacks reside unfortunately, assuring that they are unable to move up.

True, welfare encourages single family homes and has since it's inception. It's rigged so that the more children you have out of wedlock the more money you get. SAD....but, it's also not going to change. Anyone who tries to change welfare is labled a racist who hates poor people.

IMHO low income people are given the opportunity to rise up out of poverty, if they only grab hold. They are given a FREE college education...even if their original schooling was less than they might have gotten somewhere else they can take remedial classes in order to catch up.

You mention the minimum wage being another obsticle, but the minimum wage was never supposed to be a living wage. These jobs are simply stepping stones. Raising the minimum wage hurts companies and prevents hiring.

So what do we do, you ask?

-we can't change welfare without libs screaming racism

-raising the minimum wage, simply raises the cost of business which in turn raises the cost for the customer.

Like so many groups before them THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT THEMSELVES.

blacks have the fastest growing middle class, so it can be done, it just takes hard work

[Gaffer]

Now how much sense does THAT make? Put the very people in control (the police) you're trying to crucify?

The police have to do their job or lose it. And I'm not so sure the police, except a select few, are going to be doing much of anything. When rioting is going on and the police are told to stand down, they stand down.

The black supremest are running things now. Much like the KKK in the 20's and 30's.

Only in the black community would a thug be honored at his funeral. Move over Bonnie and Clyde.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

And I want to know how many people choked and or spit coffee or soda on their screens reading my last post.:laugh:
I did and it was orange juice!!! Damn it, on my new keyboard to!!
Dats gonda be sticky... -Tyr

[namvet]

the violence spreads

White Marine Brutally Beaten by Black Mob, In Apparent ‘Revenge’ Attack for Ferguson

A White former Marine suffered a severe brain injury after a group of Black men beat him at a Mississippi restaurant in an apparent ‘revenge’ attack for the killing of Mike Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

source (http://toprightnews.com/?p=5374)

[fj1200]

And just who's fault is that??? Is that whitey's fault, that since the war on poverty and.......civil rights, blacks are worse off??? That's yur conclusin, not mine!!!

Um, nooooo. That's not my conclusion. Perhaps a rereading of the thread would help you.


All the rules and regulations, were set up ta give blacks a hand up!!!

That's not really true. There are/were some of course designed to help but the minimum wage I specifically mentioned is harmful to black teens for example.

Collusion Against Our Youth (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/collusion-against-our-youth.html)
So what might help to explain? The major villain is the minimum wage law. With each increase in the minimum wage, black teen unemployment rose relative to whites and teen unemployment rose relative to adult. Why? Put yourself in the place of an employer and ask: If I must pay to whomever I hire $7.25 an hour, plus mandated fringes such as Social Security, vacation, health insurance, unemployment insurance, does it pay me to hire a worker who is so unfortunate so as to have a skill level that allows him to contribute only $5 worth of value an hour? Most employers would view hiring such a person a losing economic proposition.

Therefore, the primary effect of a minimum wage law is that of discrimination against the employment of low-skilled workers.Teenagers tend to be low skilled. They lack the experience, knowledge and maturity of adults. That means they will be the primary victims of a minimum wage law. But why are black teens more heavily impacted than white teens? Black teens are far more likely to come from broken homes and attend some of the worst schools in the nation. Therefore, a law that discriminates against the employment of low-skilled workers will have a greater impact on black workers. Moreover, the minimum wage subsidizes racial discrimination. After all, if you must pay $7.25 an hour to whomever you hire, you might as well hire people you like the most, even if they are of identical skill.

Mr. Williams also mentions that employment regulations I alluded to. So, have I concluded that it's "whitey's fault"?

[fj1200]

True, welfare encourages single family homes and has since it's inception. It's rigged so that the more children you have out of wedlock the more money you get. SAD....but, it's also not going to change. Anyone who tries to change welfare is labled a racist who hates poor people.

IMHO low income people are given the opportunity to rise up out of poverty, if they only grab hold. They are given a FREE college education...even if their original schooling was less than they might have gotten somewhere else they can take remedial classes in order to catch up.

You mention the minimum wage being another obsticle, but the minimum wage was never supposed to be a living wage. These jobs are simply stepping stones. Raising the minimum wage hurts companies and prevents hiring.

So what do we do, you ask?

-we can't change welfare without libs screaming racism

-raising the minimum wage, simply raises the cost of business which in turn raises the cost for the customer.

Like so many groups before them THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT THEMSELVES.

blacks have the fastest growing middle class, so it can be done, it just takes hard work

It would seem we have some agreement. But the MW is an example of the problem. The MW not being a living wage is not really the issue. The MW being a stepping stone to gaining experience and building a work history is the issue. If it is that much harder for the poor and uneducated, no matter the race, to get to that first rung then they are more likely to be stuck where they are and make, shall we way, poor life choices. That is what the statistics say about crime, poverty, etc.

Besides, I know what they will scream and what they will say but when a "conservative" starts ranting about the "TRUTH" of what black people are "more prone to do" then it will only distract from the reality of what the true problem is. But don't get me wrong, the US has been resting on its laurels for decades now while the rest of the world has become more competitive. We've made the cost of doing business and hiring workers that much more difficult/costly for business in a global environment and it is affecting everyone here to some degree. Those who are lowest on the rungs are the ones who are feeling it first. The canary in a coal mine if you will.

[red state]

I KNOW y'all think I'm this sweet, nice humble guy .... I'm coming back as someone hardass that takes no shit. :laugh:

HA!!!!! :lol:

It is seldom, if ever that I would or could ever say this about you, Gunny, but you're wrong about that whether you're joking or not....I'd like to think and hope that you are every bit the HARD@$$ that it takes to back each other up. In fact, that is how I see ya. Not sure why you quoted me and then made your case but I'll take it for what I assume was your intent.....to make a joke but I just wanted to SERIOUSLY let you know that I and others definitely see you and those like you as REAL Americans (unlike the lil' pukes who make excuses and side with the enemy).
:coffee:

[namvet]

http://i57.tinypic.com/adgsau.jpg

[Gunny]

the violence spreads

White Marine Brutally Beaten by Black Mob, In Apparent ‘Revenge’ Attack for Ferguson

A White former Marine suffered a severe brain injury after a group of Black men beat him at a Mississippi restaurant in an apparent ‘revenge’ attack for the killing of Mike Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

source (http://toprightnews.com/?p=5374)








Okay, HAVE to laugh here. Marine and brain injury? Same sentence? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Gunny]

HA!!!!! :lol:

It is seldom, if ever that I would or could ever say this about you, Gunny, but you're wrong about that whether you're joking or not....I'd like to think and hope that you are every bit the HARD@$$ that it takes to back each other up. In fact, that is how I see ya. Not sure why you quoted me and then made your case but I'll take it for what I assume was your intent.....to make a joke but I just wanted to SERIOUSLY let you know that I and others definitely see you and those like you as REAL Americans (unlike the lil' pukes who make excuses and side with the enemy).
:coffee:

Yes, it was meant as a parody. No one here that knows me thinks I'm sweet and damned sure not humble. :laugh:

You could go read my posts in that "would you torture somebody" thread at the top of the board. I'm a real sweetheart.

[Gunny]

http://i57.tinypic.com/adgsau.jpg

You gotta suck if you're looting a Payless. Shoes that'll kill your feet in 90 days or your money back?:laugh:

[grannyhawkins]

Um, nooooo. That's not my conclusion. Perhaps a rereading of the thread would help you.



That's not really true. There are/were some of course designed to help but the minimum wage I specifically mentioned is harmful to black teens for example.

Collusion Against Our Youth (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/collusion-against-our-youth.html)



Mr. Williams also mentions that employment regulations I alluded to. So, have I concluded that it's "whitey's fault"?

So both you an Mr. Williams are wrong about minimum wage and here's the problem with yur thinkin. All these youngsters want to start out at the top, but just like Mr. Williams points out, these youngsters have few skills to offer and even less maturity, thus they're getting paid what they're worth to the employer. The employer, then invests time, energy and wisdom on how things work, what ta do when this or that happens, now the minimum wage dude has more skills, wisdom an maturity, that they can take some where else and make more money, because the new employer, doesn't have to invest so much time and effort, startin from scratch with his slightly more mature employee.

I posted my abridged work experience for a reason, I see it went right over yurs an Mr. Williams heads!!! Success, takes both time and effort, which, uneducated youngsters have plenty of the former, but very little of the latter, no matter the flavor!!!

[fj1200]

So both you an Mr. Williams are wrong about minimum wage and here's the problem with yur thinkin. All these youngsters want to start out at the top, but just like Mr. Williams points out, these youngsters have few skills to offer and even less maturity, thus they're getting paid what they're worth to the employer. The employer, then invests time, energy and wisdom on how things work, what ta do when this or that happens, now the minimum wage dude has more skills, wisdom an maturity, that they can take some where else and make more money, because the new employer, doesn't have to invest so much time and effort, startin from scratch with his slightly more mature employee.

I posted my abridged work experience for a reason, I see it went right over yurs an Mr. Williams heads!!! Success, takes both time and effort, which, uneducated youngsters have plenty of the former, but very little of the latter, no matter the flavor!!!

Uh, yeah. You are completely and utterly wrong about the question being discussed. Folksy anecdotes aside. :rolleyes:

[DLT]

Bill O'reilly Love him or hate him here are the facts !!!




<iframe height="263" marginHeight="0" src="//video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=3741094028001&loc=debatepolicy.com&ref=about%3A%2F%2F" frameBorder="0" width="466" marginWidth="0" scrolling="no"></iframe><noscript>Watch the latest video at <a href="http://video.foxnews.com" target="_blank">video.foxnews.com</a></noscript>


http://video.foxnews.com/v/3741094028001/the-truth-about-ferguson/?intcmp=obnetwork#sp=show-clips

I can't stand Bill O'Reilly now.....but even a stopped clock is right twice a day....and O'Reilly occasionally gets things right. He's just inconsistent re: that.

Truth is....the looters ARE honoring Brown by looting/robbing the store. It's what he did before he was shot, after all....and they figure he is smiling (from wherever he is now) at the sight of his bros looting that store....and getting back at the store owner snitch.

Truth and fact is....unless or until the black community comes together and cleans up their own act, and starts policing their fellow black citizens, nothing will change re: black on black, black on white, or cop on black shooting/killing incidents...except perhaps a change for the worse.

The black community needs to eliminate the root cause of these problems...which is poor or lack of teaching morals and decency to their children, lack of parenting and blatant unconcern with juvenile crime by black kids. Black parents letting their kids run amuck isn't exactly working out well for the kids. Black parents have to change. And whitey can't do it for them. They can't even try. Cause....you know....that'd be 'racist'.

[Gunny]

I can't stand Bill O'Reilly now.....but even a stopped clock is right twice a day....and O'Reilly occasionally gets things right. He's just inconsistent re: that.

Truth is....the looters ARE honoring Brown by looting/robbing the store. It's what he did before he was shot, after all....and they figure he is smiling (from wherever he is now) at the sight of his bros looting that store....and getting back at the store owner snitch.

Truth and fact is....unless or until the black community comes together and cleans up their own act, and starts policing their fellow black citizens, nothing will change re: black on black, black on white, or cop on black shooting/killing incidents...except perhaps a change for the worse.

The black community needs to eliminate the root cause of these problems...which is poor or lack of teaching morals and decency to their children, lack of parenting and blatant unconcern with juvenile crime by black kids. Black parents letting their kids run amuck isn't exactly working out well for the kids. Black parents have to change. And whitey can't do it for them. They can't even try. Cause....you know....that'd be 'racist'.

You're kidding, right?

Fact is, when the black communities are told by their incendiary leaders they should be outraged, they use it as an excuse to loot and destroy. Hell, they destroy their own neighborhoods. Brilliant. "I'm mad at you so I'm going to burn MY house down." Wonder why Patton never thought of that.:cuckoo:

[grannyhawkins]

Uh, yeah. You are completely and utterly wrong about the question being discussed. Folksy anecdotes aside. :rolleyes:

You shall now be known henceforth, likewise an furthermore into perpetutionalism as Sherman, bear with me an I'll see iffin I can locate yur precious Mr. Peabody. I'm shur he's just off in the Waybac Machine an should return shortly :laugh:

http://borgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/peabody-sherman.jpg

[fj1200]

You shall now be known henceforth, likewise an furthermore into perpetutionalism as Sherman, bear with me an I'll see iffin I can locate yur precious Mr. Peabody. I'm shur he's just off in the Waybac Machine an should return shortly :laugh:

I'm Sherman because you don't understand cause and effect? If that's what helps you get over the fact that I agree with two PhD on the subject at hand and all you can do is watch the turnip truck drive away; seeing as how you you just fell off of it.

Nevertheless iffin you can find a clue you might find yur way back to some learnin'. :slap: Messr.s Sowell and Williams might even help you out.

[grannyhawkins]

I'm Sherman because you don't understand cause and effect? If that's what helps you get over the fact that I agree with two PhD on the subject at hand and all you can do is watch the turnip truck drive away; seeing as how you you just fell off of it.

Nevertheless iffin you can find a clue you might find yur way back to some learnin'. :slap: Messr.s Sowell and Williams might even help you out.

Are you worth more to your employer now than when you started??? Did you garner a higher salary as you gained experience and or education??? Does an employer invest other than salary in his employees??? Was your work history evaluated or do you evaluate work history??? Does length of service punctuality, job hopping, or log spans between employers mean anything, or should they??? Should all burger flippers be makin 6 figures after they're vested???

Have sowell an williams been peer reviewed???

cause an effect.................. yur opinions make my me queasy!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Are you worth more to your employer now than when you started??? Did you garner a higher salary as you gained experience and or education??? Does an employer invest other than salary in his employees??? Was your work history evaluated or do you evaluate work history??? Does length of service punctuality, job hopping, or log spans between employers mean anything, or should they??? Should all burger flippers be makin 6 figures after they're vested???

Have sowell an williams been peer reviewed???

Granny good luck getting answers that are not evasive, questions, spin, put downs or deliberate obfuscation ... fj is certainly no dummy but he is a hard rascal to ever force to admit to having made an error in judgment.
Please do not ever ask him 6 questions in a row like that..
I am sitting on pins and needles awaiting the spin and clever retorts about to erupt from his keyboard next time he posts. :laugh: -Tyr

[Gunny]

I'm Sherman because you don't understand cause and effect? If that's what helps you get over the fact that I agree with two PhD on the subject at hand and all you can do is watch the turnip truck drive away; seeing as how you you just fell off of it.

Nevertheless iffin you can find a clue you might find yur way back to some learnin'. :slap: Messr.s Sowell and Williams might even help you out.

First, you're rather obvious in your inability to talk like a redneck. Just give that one up. You ain't got it. Just no. :laugh:

Second, using 2 PhD's as a reference means you're more'n likely wrong.

[Gunny]

Are you worth more to your employer now than when you started??? Did you garner a higher salary as you gained experience and or education??? Does an employer invest other than salary in his employees??? Was your work history evaluated or do you evaluate work history??? Does length of service punctuality, job hopping, or log spans between employers mean anything, or should they??? Should all burger flippers be makin 6 figures after they're vested???

Have sowell an williams been peer reviewed???

cause an effect.................. yur opinions make my me queasy!!!

And FJ, I think you just got owned by a 900 years old hillbilly. :laugh:

[Jeff]

First, you're rather obvious in your inability to talk like a redneck. Just give that one up. You ain't got it. Just no. :laugh:

Second, using 2 PhD's as a reference means you're more'n likely wrong.


And FJ, I think you just got owned by a 900 years old hillbilly. :laugh:



Fj a redneck :laugh:

Got to love the 900 year old Hillbilly :laugh: Well hell I love all Hillbilly's :thumb:

[Gunny]

Fj a redneck :laugh:

Got to love the 900 year old Hillbilly :laugh: Well hell I love all Hillbilly's :thumb:

If I didn't love hillbilly's I'd have to disown the paternal side of my family. And used car dealers? To a man.:laugh:

[Gunny]

Oh, and FJ doesn't have a chance. Not even a pretend one. :laugh:

[Jeff]

Oh, and FJ doesn't have a chance. Not even a pretend one. :laugh:

AAA Nope Fj doesn't have to worry about being called a redneck sure enough !!!

[Gunny]

AAA Nope Fj doesn't have to worry about being called a redneck sure enough !!!

If he puts it on his resume, he can scratch me as a reference. :laugh:

How bad is it when you can't even pretend to be one online? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[fj1200]

First, you're rather obvious in your inability to talk like a redneck. Just give that one up. You ain't got it. Just no. :laugh:

Second, using 2 PhD's as a reference means you're more'n likely wrong.

The first bold just doesn't sting as much as you think. :poke: And I'm pretty sure those 2 PhDs means I'm more'n err, more than likely right. :)


And FJ, I think you just got owned by a 900 years old hillbilly. :laugh:

If he had posted anything that I disagreed with you might be right. :420:

[fj1200]

Fj a redneck :laugh:

In a parking lot full of Harleys I've got the Yamaha. :eek:


If I didn't love hillbilly's I'd have to disown the paternal side of my family. And used car dealers? To a man.:laugh:

Are those banjos I hear?

:laugh:

[fj1200]

I am sitting on pins and needles awaiting the spin and clever retorts about to erupt from his keyboard next time he posts. :laugh: -Tyr

Pay attention, some TRUTH is about to be laid down. :poke:


Are you worth more to your employer now than when you started??? Did you garner a higher salary as you gained experience and or education??? Does an employer invest other than salary in his employees??? Was your work history evaluated or do you evaluate work history??? Does length of service punctuality, job hopping, or log spans between employers mean anything, or should they??? Should all burger flippers be makin 6 figures after they're vested???

Have sowell an williams been peer reviewed???

cause an effect.................. yur opinions make my me queasy!!!

Let's see about those questions... Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, and I'm sure they have. Sowell for one is frequently praised on this site and Williams frequently fills in for Rush. How 'bout them apples?

Now, unfortunately none of those questions really relate to the issue that I brought up.


... but the minimum wage I specifically mentioned is harmful to black teens for example.

Collusion Against Our Youth (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/collusion-against-our-youth.html)

[grannyhawkins]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by fj1200 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=700841#post700841)
... but the minimum wage I specifically mentioned is harmful to black teens for example.

Collusion Against Our Youth


Care to elaborate on the conspiracy???

[Gunny]

In a parking lot full of Harleys I've got the Yamaha. :eek:



Are those banjos I hear?

:laugh:

If you could actually pick a banjo you screwball, I'd be impressed. I hope you do better than your attempt at internet impersonations though. Otherwise, I don't want to be anywhere near you when you try.:laugh:

[Gunny]

Pay attention, some TRUTH is about to be laid down. :poke:



Let's see about those questions... Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, and I'm sure they have. Sowell for one is frequently praised on this site and Williams frequently fills in for Rush. How 'bout them apples?

Now, unfortunately none of those questions really relate to the issue that I brought up.


Care to elaborate on the conspiracy???

I don't think granny wants to play expand-a-post with you.:laugh:

[jimnyc]

I was a redneck once, for like 6-8 weeks. True story!

[aboutime]

Anyone happen to think about something you joke about quite often?

Namely. Using the Redneck descriptive to describe a portion of American culture from the Southern states which just might...sound as racist to some as using the 'N' word elsewhere?

I was born in Pennsylvania, but live South of the Mason/Dixon line...which makes me a Southerner since 1964.

In many unfortunate, unthinking minds. That makes me a 'Redneck' to those who must always besmirch those who call themselves Southerners. Does that make you any different than those who applaud the use of the 'N' word?

[Gunny]

I was a redneck once, for like 6-8 weeks. True story!

That long huh? How'd you stand it?:laugh:

[jimnyc]

That long huh? How'd you stand it?:laugh:

It wasn't easy. I stayed at Jeff's when he lived in another part of Georgia, bought be some overalls, didn't shave for a couple of months, and I even got into Nascar!! :coffee:

[Gunny]

Anyone happen to think about something you joke about quite often?

Namely. Using the Redneck descriptive to describe a portion of American culture from the Southern states which just might...sound as racist to some as using the 'N' word elsewhere?

I was born in Pennsylvania, but live South of the Mason/Dixon line...which makes me a Southerner since 1964.

In many unfortunate, unthinking minds. That makes me a 'Redneck' to those who must always besmirch those who call themselves Southerners. Does that make you any different than those who applaud the use of the 'N' word?

I'm proud to be called a redneck. I'll throw it in people's faces. Stereotypes bother only those that let them, or use them for political gain. And the word is nigger, not "the N word".

[jimnyc]

Anyone happen to think about something you joke about quite often?

Namely. Using the Redneck descriptive to describe a portion of American culture from the Southern states which just might...sound as racist to some as using the 'N' word elsewhere?

I was born in Pennsylvania, but live South of the Mason/Dixon line...which makes me a Southerner since 1964.

In many unfortunate, unthinking minds. That makes me a 'Redneck' to those who must always besmirch those who call themselves Southerners. Does that make you any different than those who applaud the use of the 'N' word?

I never even thought of it. I had cousins in Florida growing up and we referred to them as rednecks, but it was a thing of admiration. We always couldn't wait to visit our crazy cousins in Florida. I call all Jeff's friends rednecks too. I know some others see it differently, but I always saw it as the "cool people from down south". That, and the ones you didn't want to fuck with while traveling! All in good respect though.

Now, insulting I think is when someone calls you a hillbilly! LOL Had one of them by Jeff too, damn guy "Jerry", spoke EXACTLY like Boomhauer from King of the Hill!!

[grannyhawkins]

I'm proud to be called a redneck. I'll throw it in people's faces. Stereotypes bother only those that let them, or use them for political gain. And the word is nigger, not "the N word".

I've been called a lot worse an if you think about it, bein called an SOB, are fightin words. Nobody bad mouths Momma!!!

[Gunny]

I never even thought of it. I had cousins in Florida growing up and we referred to them as rednecks, but it was a thing of admiration. We always couldn't wait to visit our crazy cousins in Florida. I call all Jeff's friends rednecks too. I know some others see it differently, but I always saw it as the "cool people from down south". That, and the ones you didn't want to fuck with while traveling! All in good respect though.

Now, insulting I think is when someone calls you a hillbilly! LOL Had one of them by Jeff too, damn guy "Jerry", spoke EXACTLY like Boomhauer from King of the Hill!!

Hillbillies can make their own hooch. So how dumb is that?

[Jeff]

I was a redneck once, for like 6-8 weeks. True story!

Most would of considered you a lost Yankee :laugh:

But then again I have had people tell me down here that I am a Redneck Yankee, so maybe Jim :laugh:

[namvet]

I learned about the south from some southern boys i served with. one in particular was always asking me about the north and northen cities. and he told me alot about the south. we always said "well ill be damed"

also talked to some southern gals on the phone. not sure if i was in luv or in heat :laugh:

[Jeff]

I learned about the south from some southern boys i served with. one in particular was always asking me about the north and northen cities. and he told me alot about the south. we always said "well ill be damed"

also talked to some southern gals on the phone. not sure if i was in luv or in heat :laugh:

The southern accent does make most woman sound sexy as hell


Well Bless his Heart ( that one gets me ) :laugh:

[Gaffer]

"Bless his heart" means: he's a silly asshole.

[namvet]

luv em


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFL2GT1-2g

:coffee:

[Jeff]

When I met the wife she had a pretty good southern accent but she seems to of lost it a bit, I guess she picks up on my accent being we spend so much time together,

Gaffer you are exactly right !!! I have a friend that uses that all the time and we have some guys we know that all just bought motorcycles and want in the worst way to be bikers , and she will look at them and say Well Bless your Heart, it is sexy as hell even though she is nicely telling them they are idiots LOL

[Jeff]

luv em


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFL2GT1-2g

:coffee:

I just left a friends house, he asked me to stop by and check on his Ol Lady and she had a friend over, I think I just heard all of those saying for the 2nd time tonight :laugh:

[gabosaurus]

Since when does a Southern Belle ask anyone if something is tacky? Isn't that just taken for granted?

My cousin, who grew up in the Dallas area, would have made a great Southern Belle. Except she didn't have enough class. And she was Latina. And caused a bit too much trouble.
"I'm gonna shove this heel so far down your throat, you're gonna be shittin' it for breakfast."

[Gunny]

The southern accent does make most woman sound sexy as hell


Well Bless his Heart ( that one gets me ) :laugh:

The accent is totally cool. And "bless my heart" SHOULD get you, goober. You just got called a dumbf-k. :laugh:

When my grandmother would say that, I'd just start looking around wondering exactly what it was she caught me doing. :laugh:

[fj1200]

If you could actually pick a banjo you screwball, I'd be impressed. I hope you do better than your attempt at internet impersonations though. Otherwise, I don't want to be anywhere near you when you try.:laugh:

If you didn't like my internet redneck-ese then you'll hate my banjo skills. :cool:


I don't think granny wants to play expand-a-post with you.:laugh:

I didn't expand anything, that's someone else's MO. ;) In fact I directly answered all six questions.

[fj1200]

Care to elaborate on the conspiracy???

:confused: Who said anything about a conspiracy?

[grannyhawkins]

:confused: Who said anything about a conspiracy?

I mighta misinterpreted your previous quote and the link you provided. I'm havin a hail of a time typin on this site, nuthin comes out quite right an editin is also a pain, for whatever reason an I guess I just missed yur link. I did go back an read it though. I guess I jumped to a conclusion as to William's argument an while I agree with some of it, I think what he has shown, is the war on poverty has been a disaster for black families!!! Williams doesn't mention anything about offshorin jobs or illegal immigration, which is all part of the equation. So for that I apologize!!! But, the national argument on minimum wage, takes an entirely different view, than apparently you or Williams, on the subject, of which I don't agree.

[Gunny]

I mighta misinterpreted your previous quote and the link you provided. I'm havin a hail of a time typin on this site, nuthin comes out quite right an editin is also a pain, for whatever reason an I guess I just missed yur link. I did go back an read it though. I guess I jumped to a conclusion as to William's argument an while I agree with some of it, I think what he has shown, is the war on poverty has been a disaster for black families!!! Williams doesn't mention anything about offshorin jobs or illegal immigration, which is all part of the equation. So for that I apologize!!! But, the national argument on minimum wage, takes an entirely different view, than apparently you or Williams, on the subject, of which I don't agree.

I'd have a hell of a time typing phonetically rather than grammatically correct on ANY site. :laugh: I've got a Texas drawl. That's a LOT of dashes between letters.

I disagree with a National minimum wage for the simple reason that the cost of living isn't a national thing. Cost of living is regional. And it don't take no PhD to figure out that. Just move around some. I live a LOT better in Texas than I did in Ohio or IL. The wage is based on the regional economy, but I have a Federal retirement check. It's the same amount no matter where I go. Cost of living is not.

Then there's the fact that no matter what wage you pay someone, vendors and the government are going to adjust prices accordingly to try and get it all.

Hell, forget that. Let me quit having to pay Federal income tax. So, it's a game. Why not change the tax rates instead? I pay over $150. a week in Federal tax. Want to raise my pay? Improve my life? Let me keep THAT.

[fj1200]

I mighta misinterpreted your previous quote and the link you provided. I'm havin a hail of a time typin on this site, nuthin comes out quite right an editin is also a pain, for whatever reason an I guess I just missed yur link. I did go back an read it though. I guess I jumped to a conclusion as to William's argument an while I agree with some of it, I think what he has shown, is the war on poverty has been a disaster for black families!!! Williams doesn't mention anything about offshorin jobs or illegal immigration, which is all part of the equation. So for that I apologize!!! But, the national argument on minimum wage, takes an entirely different view, than apparently you or Williams, on the subject, of which I don't agree.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make among the links I posted, the Williams link detailed how the MW was also detrimental to black teens in particular. And how can you disagree if you don't know where I stand the on the MW let alone off shoring or illegal immigration?