US-made Stinger missiles have likely fallen into ISIS hands, officials say

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/06/16/us-made-stinger-missiles-have-likely-fallen-into-isis-hands-officials-say/

US-made Stinger missiles have likely fallen into ISIS hands, officials say



Published June 16, 2014
·FoxNews.com



U.S. officials with access to the latest U.S. intelligence on Iraq told Fox News it "appears likely/probable" that U.S.-made Stinger missiles have fallen into the hands of Sunni insurgents.

It is possible that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) fighters acquired them from army bases they have taken over in recent days, the sources said..


The Stinger missile is a shoulder-fired surface-to-air weapon that is used against aircraft.

As ISIS forces have advanced through Iraq, concerns have increased that more U.S.-made weaponry could fall into the hands of the radical group.

Iraqi intelligence officials said ISIS fighters managed to take control of two big weapons depots late last week holding some 400,000 items, including AK-47 rifles, rockets and rocket-propelled grenades, artillery shells and mortars. A quarter of the stockpiles were quickly sent to Syria in order to help the group's comrades there, they said.

Also last week, according to a report from the West Point Combating Terrorism Center, the ISIS "now possesses scores of Iraqi military equipment originally provided by the United States, from Humvees and cargo vehicles to small arms."

Fox News' Jennifer Griffin, Jonathan Wachtel and The Associated Press contributed to this report

Amazing isn't it , that there was no knowledge of the coming attack, no plans to move precious, advanced weapons into safety in Baghdad or no line formed after retreating from the initial attacks.
Obama helped his muslim brothers get back what we spent a trillion dollars and countless precious lives to liberate!!!
Anybody that disputes that is either a damn fool, a chump or a piece of shit IMHO!!!
If Obama is not removed from office this nation falls!!! --Tyr

[darin]

Few things to keep in mind about Stingers...

Most of the technology is from the 1970s. Recent upgrades include RMP - reprogrammable microproccessor - allowing the lock-on parameters to be changed with technology. Also, the system takes a little knowledge to impliment well - and they are mostly effective against low speed, low altitude aircraft - although they can engage helicopters from farther-out - making them ineffective against the kind of attacks US forces MIGHT do. And considering our CinC's history, I can forsee Cruise missile and drone attacks as probably. While it 'could' kill cruise missiles (if the operator could somehow find it in the sky), drones are certainly vulnerable.

Further, without mechanisms to charge the batteries (likely expended after one engagement whether launch happens or not) the missile may become useless. While fire-and-forget, they leave a prominent smoke signature/trail leading to the launch point. Soviet style SAMs would likely be easier for terrorists to have, and are probably equally as effective. Having said that, I cannot think of another modern weapon system that, when introduced, solely changed the tide of a battle OTHER than the STINGER - see Afghanistan v. Soviets.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Few things to keep in mind about Stingers...

Most of the technology is from the 1970s. Recent upgrades include RMP - reprogrammable microproccessor - allowing the lock-on parameters to be changed with technology. Also, the system takes a little knowledge to impliment well - and they are mostly effective against low speed, low altitude aircraft - although they can engage helicopters from farther-out - making them ineffective against the kind of attacks US forces MIGHT do. And considering our CinC's history, I can forsee Cruise missile and drone attacks as probably. While it 'could' kill cruise missiles (if the operator could somehow find it in the sky), drones are certainly vulnerable.

Further, without mechanisms to charge the batteries (likely expended after one engagement whether launch happens or not) the missile may become useless. While fire-and-forget, they leave a prominent smoke signature/trail leading to the launch point. Soviet style SAMs would likely be easier for terrorists to have, and are probably equally as effective. Having said that, I cannot think of another modern weapon system that, when introduced, solely changed the tide of a battle OTHER than the STINGER - see Afghanistan v. Soviets.

They have the new models..
http://nypost.com/2014/06/08/how-the-taliban-got-their-hands-on-modern-us-missiles/
How the Taliban got their hands on modern US missiles


By Kenneth R. Timmerman

In his new book, “Dark Forces: The Truth About What Happened in Ben*ghazi” (Broadside Books), writer Kenneth R. Timmerman explains how the US government’s efforts to arm the Libyan rebels backfired, flooding weapons into Syria, and as he *reveals here, Afghanistan:

Miliary records and sources reveal that on July 25, 2012, Taliban fighters in Kunar province successfully targeted a US Army CH-47 helicopter with a new generation Stinger missile.

They thought they had a surefire kill. But instead of bursting into flames, the Chinook just disappeared into the darkness as the American pilot recovered control of the aircraft and brought it to the ground in a hard landing.

The assault team jumped out the open doors and ran clear in case it exploded. Less than 30 seconds later, the Taliban gunner and his comrade erupted into flames as an American gunship overhead locked onto their position and opened fire.

The next day, an explosive ordnance disposal team arrived to pick through the wreckage and found unexploded pieces of a missile casing that could only belong to a Stinger missile.


Lodged in the right nacelle, they found one fragment that contained an entire serial number.

The investigation took time. Arms were twisted, noses put out of joint. But when the results came back, they were stunning: The Stinger tracked back to a lot that had been signed out by the CIA recently, not during the anti-Soviet *jihad.

Reports of the Stinger reached the highest echelons of the US command in Afghanistan and became a source of intense speculation, but no action.

Everyone knew the war was winding down. Revealing that the Taliban had US-made Stingers risked demoralizing coalition troops. Because there were no coalition casualties, government officials made no public announcement of the attack.

My sources in the US Special Operations community believe the Stinger fired against the Chinook was part of the same lot the CIA turned over to the *Qataris in early 2011, weapons Hillary Rodham Clinton’s State Department intended for anti-Khadafy forces in Libya.

They believe the Qataris delivered between 50 and 60 of those same Stingers to the Taliban in early 2012, and an additional 200 SA-24 Igla-S surface-to-air missiles.

Qatar now is expected to hold five Taliban commanders released from Guantanamo for a year before allowing them to go to Afghanistan.

But if we can’t trust the Qataris not to give our weapons to the Taliban, how can we trust them with this?

[darin]

As I said - those can be re-programmed WITH the re-programming stuff which DoD doesn't field with the systems; all those are done at Raytheon, or through their contractors assigned with fieldings. The one that hit the Chinook had a problem - there should be NOTHING left of it upon detonation. I suspect it didn't detonate.

What does disappeared into the darkness mean, I wonder? Stingers do not have electronic/night sights. I've seen a night sight for a Stinger, but never in person. Rare things.

[aboutime]

As I said - those can be re-programmed WITH the re-programming stuff which DoD doesn't field with the systems; all those are done at Raytheon, or through their contractors assigned with fieldings. The one that hit the Chinook had a problem - there should be NOTHING left of it upon detonation. I suspect it didn't detonate.


dmp. I heard a local NBC station report, and an interview with a former U.S.Army General who said "It is highly Unlikely that the U.S. Left any Stinger's behind." He went on to say the Pentagon had accounted for all of those weapons, and none were left behind for the Iraqi Army."

Not too comfortable...personally, hearing that on NBC. But, I fully suspect the Pentagon wouldn't try to hide such information due to the possible threats to Americans in Iraq.

[Gaffer]

Where would they get the stingers.....Benghazi.

[aboutime]

Where would they get the stingers.....Benghazi.


Gaffer. Personally. If...AND ONLY IF they have stingers. I would suspect they are Russian versions, or from Iran. So far. We haven't heard any further news about them. So, I suspect it's primarily just Rumor now. Not saying they CAN'T HAVE THEM. But I feel pretty confident. If the Pentagon knows. We didn't leave them ourselves.

[darin]

If they have stingers they are US. Soviet style have their own name. SA- something for combloc surface to air

[aboutime]

If they have stingers they are US. Soviet style have their own name. SA- something for combloc surface to air


dmp. I'm aware of that. But we know civilians aren't smart enough to know the difference. So, when they say Stingers. We have to think GENERIC. The Surface to Air versions of weapons may have different names, and nomenclature, but they actually are capable of doing the same as a stinger.

No need for anyone to argue about such things. Weapons are weapons..aimed at the wrong people still kill.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Where would they get the stingers.....Benghazi.
They were transported to Benghazi so that the terrorists could then just take them. Obama was forbidden by Federal law to arm the terrorists so he did it this way but two Navy seals ff'ed it all up..
Benghazi was an arm the terrorists plan that went badly wrong because two patriotic Americans chose to fight to help embassy personnel.
Obama was engaging in a crime and it was his baby.. Trust me on that.

[aboutime]

They were transported to Benghazi so that the terrorists could then just take them. Obama was forbidden by Federal law to arm the terrorists so he did it this way but two Navy seals ff'ed it all up..
Benghazi was an arm the terrorists plan that went badly wrong because two patriotic Americans chose to fight to help embassy personnel.
Obama was engaging in a crime and it was his baby.. Trust me on that.


Tyr. Gotta disagree with you on this one.

The story, and information were second hand, as the report added: "Today ISIS rebels shot down an Iraqi helicopter outside Fallujah.
They likely used a US Stinger missile."

The keyword is LIKELY. Until the Pentagon confirms. I remain skeptical, based on other sources I have used.

[darin]

Small arms, crew served weapons or a properly thrown baseball could take down a helo. Well said AT.

[aboutime]

Small arms, crew served weapons or a properly thrown baseball could take down a helo. Well said AT.


dmp. Thanks. I didn't say that to sound like a smart-ass, or wise guy here. Truth is. I once had the opportunity, while aboard my ship during a Med. cruise, to get the chance to actually hold a STINGER. And the security around such weapons isn't taken lightly. So I am very confident. Anyone who wants to blame our SEAL's for messing up, and leaving such a weapon laying around...IS TOTALLY WRONG.

You are right about the baseball idea. Which reminds me of one of my favorite lines I heard from former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld who said "YOU don't know, what you don't know, you don't know."

Seems like the Internet has become a vast wasteland of information from people who DON'T KNOW what they DON'T KNOW.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

dmp. Thanks. I didn't say that to sound like a smart-ass, or wise guy here. Truth is. I once had the opportunity, while aboard my ship during a Med. cruise, to get the chance to actually hold a STINGER. And the security around such weapons isn't taken lightly. So I am very confident. Anyone who wants to blame our SEAL's for messing up, and leaving such a weapon laying around...IS TOTALLY WRONG.

You are right about the baseball idea. Which reminds me of one of my favorite lines I heard from former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld who said "YOU don't know, what you don't know, you don't know."

Seems like the Internet has become a vast wasteland of information from people who DON'T KNOW what they DON'T KNOW.

Our Seals didn't mess up , those weapons were signed out by the CIA.
That is the government agency Obama used to get the weapons to his buddies!!! Those two Seals were ordered to stand down which they promptly and correctly ignored!! Do not think I was criticizing either of those heroes my friend! For I was not!
This entire thing was Obama corruption and criminal act all the way-his breaking FEDERAL LAW TO GIVE ADVANCED WEAPONS TO TERRORISTS GROUPS.
Those two brave and patriotic men ffed up his little plan .
The terrorists were supposed to get the weapons, take embassy hostages and Obama comes in just before the election and gets all hostages released unharmed but it all got shafted.
The plan was weapons go to terrorists groups and they in exchange take hostages which bam traitor then manages to get back unharmed just before the vote . He then wins by a landslide..
Why do think the two Seals were told to stand down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[darin]

For what it's worth, my first five years in the army I was a stinger team gunner then team leader.