Islam is out of control

[darin]

Just MILLIONS (guessing) of "Muslims" (I use that loosely, because it's not their faith that's the problem, it's the fact they are mentally broken - they WANT blood and use their faith as an excuse) are killing the HELL out of otherwise innocent people. I simply cannot fathom the monsters doing this have a modicum of a CLUE about their supposed God/Prophet/Whatever. What can be done? Would Muslim leaders ever try to mobilize a "Real" Jihad against the terrorists killing people? God I'd love to see that - Islamic leaders calling for Jihad against those who kill ANYONE 'in the name of Allah".

When I read about ISIS and I see what's going on in Kenya...I have to wonder "how long?"

I'm tellin' ya...I'm consciously buying more ammo than before. Here and there a few extra rounds.


When it comes to ammo - 1000 rounds is 100 rounds, and 100 rounds = none.

[Drummond]

Just MILLIONS (guessing) of "Muslims" (I use that loosely, because it's not their faith that's the problem, it's the fact they are mentally broken - they WANT blood and use their faith as an excuse) are killing the HELL out of otherwise innocent people. I simply cannot fathom the monsters doing this have a modicum of a CLUE about their supposed God/Prophet/Whatever. What can be done? Would Muslim leaders ever try to mobilize a "Real" Jihad against the terrorists killing people? God I'd love to see that - Islamic leaders calling for Jihad against those who kill ANYONE 'in the name of Allah".

When I read about ISIS and I see what's going on in Kenya...I have to wonder "how long?"

I'm tellin' ya...I'm consciously buying more ammo than before. Here and there a few extra rounds.


When it comes to ammo - 1000 rounds is 100 rounds, and 100 rounds = none.

I'd have to believe that if there was ever going be any real and worthwhile movement from Muslim leaders against terrorists .. it would've happened by now.

Consider that, in my neck of the woods, one Abu Hamza spent YEARS openly preaching his pro-terrorist messages in north London .. and was never taken on, not by leaders, not by other Muslims. It finally took an extradition order from the US to give him what he truly deserved.

And then, of course, there's '9/11'. If Islam really is the 'religion of peace' we're promised it is, why didn't all 'those millions of peaceful Muslims' we're assured are out there, get such an almighty shock from the events of that day, that they moved to cleanse their religion from the shame of terrorism done in its name, back THEN ?

No. There's much that doesn't add up. Not if we attempt to take seriously the sanitising hype drip-fed to us since that time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'd have to believe that if there was ever going be any real and worthwhile movement from Muslim leaders against terrorists .. it would've happened by now.

Consider that, in my neck of the woods, one Abu Hamza spent YEARS openly preaching his pro-terrorist messages in north London .. and was never taken on, not by leaders, not by other Muslims. It finally took an extradition order from the US to give him what he truly deserved.

And then, of course, there's '9/11'. If Islam really is the 'religion of peace' we're promised it is, why didn't all 'those millions of peaceful Muslims' we're assured are out there, get such an almighty shock from the events of that day, that they moved to cleanse their religion from the shame of terrorism done in its name, back THEN ?

No. There's much that doesn't add up. Not if we attempt to take seriously the sanitising hype drip-fed to us since that time.
Islam is Jihad and Jihad is Islam!!! That majority does not speak out because they agree with the damn Jihadists!! All this lying hype how it upsets non-radical Muslims is pure ffing shit!!!!
Those so-called moderates, non-radicals danced in the damn streets on 911..
Islam, CAIR and cowardly American appeasers have kept this lie afloat!!
U.S government has kept this damn lie afloat. Obama has kept this ffing lie afloat.
Jafar does his best to keep this damn lie alive..--Tyr

[Drummond]

Islam is Jihad and Jihad is Islam!!! That majority does not speak out because they agree with the damn Jihadists!! All this lying hype how it upsets non-radical Muslims is pure ffing shit!!!!
Those so-called moderates, non-radicals danced in the damn streets on 911..
Islam, CAIR and cowardly American appeasers have kept this lie afloat!!
U.S government has kept this damn lie afloat. Obama has kept this ffing lie afloat.
Jafar does his best to keep this damn lie alive..--Tyr
:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Precisely !

The mishmash that the Quran IS, in totality, allows people like Jafar to cherrypick material which in turn facilitates the false image of Islam as being fundamentally 'peaceful'. It is nothing of the kind .. the material Muslims are commanded to truly be guided by is the nastiest, most warlike of the material it contains. The principle of abrogation guarantees that.

Because that is true, there will never be any major 'peace' initiative from leaders in the Islamic world which could amount to anything. YES, there will be those offering soundbytes which placate Lefties wishing to be politically correct to the point of ultra-tolerance (i.e willful blindness). There will be the sanitisers such as Jafar. What there will NOT be is an end to terrorism, no end to savagery done in Islam's name, not for as long as anti-Islamism still thrives in the world.

And if Islam ever did become dominant worldwide, mankind will enter a new and terminal Dark Age.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Precisely !

The mishmash that the Quran IS, in totality, allows people like Jafar to cherrypick material which in turn facilitates the false image of Islam as being fundamentally 'peaceful'. It is nothing of the kind .. the material Muslims are commanded to truly be guided by is the nastiest, most warlike of the material it contains. The principle of abrogation guarantees that.

Because that is true, there will never be any major 'peace' initiative from leaders in the Islamic world which could amount to anything. YES, there will be those offering soundbytes which placate Lefties wishing to be politically correct to the point of ultra-tolerance (i.e willful blindness). There will be the sanitisers such as Jafar. What there will NOT be is an end to terrorism, no end to savagery done in Islam's name, not for as long as anti-Islamism still thrives in the world.

And if Islam ever did become dominant worldwide, mankind will enter a new and terminal Dark Age.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drummond again.

A world ruled by Islam would be far worse than any horror movie ever made!! Islam in it's 1400+ years has murdered well over 260 million people.. And that was with it not dominating the world, imagine if it had such power now !!--Tyr

[darin]

Doesn't matter what's in the scriptures - what matters is what people do with it

[Jeff]

Just MILLIONS (guessing) of "Muslims" (I use that loosely, because it's not their faith that's the problem, it's the fact they are mentally broken - they WANT blood and use their faith as an excuse) are killing the HELL out of otherwise innocent people. I simply cannot fathom the monsters doing this have a modicum of a CLUE about their supposed God/Prophet/Whatever. What can be done? Would Muslim leaders ever try to mobilize a "Real" Jihad against the terrorists killing people? God I'd love to see that - Islamic leaders calling for Jihad against those who kill ANYONE 'in the name of Allah".

When I read about ISIS and I see what's going on in Kenya...I have to wonder "how long?"

I'm tellin' ya...I'm consciously buying more ammo than before. Here and there a few extra rounds.


When it comes to ammo - 1000 rounds is 100 rounds, and 100 rounds = none.



You are so right dmp !!


And once again we see those with no Morals standing up for this disease, yes they will protect this so called religion of peace no matter what. Take this very board, you see it in the news and think man everyone should know this so ya post it, you immediately have folks telling you they aren't real Muslims ( and I am sure in many cases that is true ) or ya just have the Obama nuts stepping forward because anything that has no Morals is good, in other words anything that is righteous (or was at one time ) is no longer good, yes we have Nit Wits that no matter what is happening as long as it is the opposite of what OLD America would do then it is good. Yes I have even seen folks talk about there kids reading the bible and then in the same sentence say and yes my kid also reads the Koran ( I call BS but that is another story ) It all boils down to no Morals , and guess what when this disease of a religion attacks these same folks that are screaming guns are no good and then say that this religion is no different than Christianity will come running for help and as for me I am going to enjoy watching the religion of peace do there thing with these folks !

Lock and Load is all I can say, it is coming.

[jafar00]

Islam is Jihad and Jihad is Islam!!! That majority does not speak out because they agree with the damn Jihadists!! All this lying hype how it upsets non-radical Muslims is pure ffing shit!!!!
Those so-called moderates, non-radicals danced in the damn streets on 911..
Islam, CAIR and cowardly American appeasers have kept this lie afloat!!
U.S government has kept this damn lie afloat. Obama has kept this ffing lie afloat.
Jafar does his best to keep this damn lie alive..--Tyr

By your logic, I and a billion and a half or so of my fellow Muslims must be bad Muslims, and the few that are doing bad things are perfect Muslims?

[darin]

By your logic, I and a billion and a half or so of my fellow Muslims must be bad Muslims, and the few that are doing bad things are perfect Muslims?

now come on...it's not 'a few' that are doing bad.

It's perhaps MILLIONS. Thousands, easily.

Do you think a mufti COULD issue a fatwā regarding jihad against terrorists?

[CSM]

By your logic, I and a billion and a half or so of my fellow Muslims must be bad Muslims, and the few that are doing bad things are perfect Muslims?

I would think that a billion and a half or so 'real Muslims would be outraged that a 'few that are doing bad things' and take action against those few. I guess I just do not understand the 'real' Muslim mindset.

[Jeff]

I would think that a billion and a half or so 'real Muslims would be outraged that a 'few that are doing bad things' and take action against those few. I guess I just do not understand the 'real' Muslim mindset.

I have been saying this all along, no doubt those that kill in the name of Allah are the minority but why aren't the Majority stepping up, seems to me if the minority of any group is giving ya a black eye then it is up to the majority to shut them down. But instead we have many in the majority making excuses and even supporting different groups . We see some in the majority making these excuses because they believe a certain group was done dirty, so it is now OK to allow that group to kill in the name of Allah ( or to kill in the name of anything ) Honestly in my eyes if you aren't speaking out about these animals anjd trying to shut them down then you are just as much apart of the problem as they are.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

By your logic, I and a billion and a half or so of my fellow Muslims must be bad Muslims, and the few that are doing bad things are perfect Muslims?





Islam is Jihad and Jihad is Islam!!! That majority does not speak out because they agree with the damn Jihadists!! All this lying hype how it upsets non-radical Muslims is pure ffing shit!!!!
Those so-called moderates, non-radicals danced in the damn streets on 911..
Islam, CAIR and cowardly American appeasers have kept this lie afloat!!
U.S government has kept this damn lie afloat. Obama has kept this ffing lie afloat.
Jafar does his best to keep this damn lie alive..--Tyr


You post as you deny the truth of my earlier post. Islam does nothing because Jihad is the highest calling in the Holy Quran.. Yet you and others attempt to placate fears from its future victims by pointing to what-you say- IS ITS TRUE MESSAGE!!! WELL, 1400+ YEARS, over 260 murdered victims and that message still takes back seat!
Islam does nothing because to actually attack Jihadists in defense of infidels makes one an apostate, worthy of death and death that will be delivered sooner or later to any Muslim doing that..
You know this but pretend it's not true..

Defense of Islam by Jihadists will never be abandoned nor will it ever be altered.. Every enemy of Islam is to be conquered by any method that brings success and even if half of mankind must perish the true Muslim will support that and praise Allah while doing so!! That is what CAIR, OTHER GROUPS AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE KNOWN BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!
Yet I refuse to ever stop saying it and warning of the religion you claim which is actually a military cult pretending to be a religion.
No true religion, religion of any merit(any true morality) teaches that murdering and lying are perfectly alright as long as it advances that religion--only Islam teaches this!!!-Tyr

[darin]

What's worse: Something that teaches something bad, or those who accept it and DO bad things?

Islam isn't the problem; Islamists who kill in the name of God are the problem.


Sidebar: For folks of Christianity, etc, or Islam - If God is all-powerful why would he demand PEOPLE kill others in his name? If Allah/God is Supreme, he should do his own dirty work, no?

[stevecanuck]

What's worse: Something that teaches something bad, or those who accept it and DO bad things?

Islam isn't the problem; Islamists who kill in the name of God are the problem.


Sidebar: For folks of Christianity, etc, or Islam - If God is all-powerful why would he demand PEOPLE kill others in his name? If Allah/God is Supreme, he should do his own dirty work, no?

The qur'an has the answer to that question. Verse 47:4 says, "Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds. Then, either free them by grace or ransom until war shall lay down its loads, in this way, it shall be. Had Allah willed, He would have been victorious over them; except that He might test you......."


Not blaming Islam is like not blaming Hitler and Naziism, but the people who took their orders. You can't have followers with no lead to follow.






Just MILLIONS (guessing) of "Muslims" (I use that loosely, because it's not their faith that's the problem, it's the fact they are mentally broken - they WANT blood and use their faith as an excuse) are killing the HELL out of otherwise innocent people. I simply cannot fathom the monsters doing this have a modicum of a CLUE about their supposed God/Prophet/Whatever. What can be done? Would Muslim leaders ever try to mobilize a "Real" Jihad against the terrorists killing people? God I'd love to see that - Islamic leaders calling for Jihad against those who kill ANYONE 'in the name of Allah".

When I read about ISIS and I see what's going on in Kenya...I have to wonder "how long?"

I'm tellin' ya...I'm consciously buying more ammo than before. Here and there a few extra rounds.


When it comes to ammo - 1000 rounds is 100 rounds, and 100 rounds = none.

Your statement implies you've studied Islam. Have you?

[darin]

What gives you the idea I've studied Islam based on my OP? I know a bit about it - but more than that, I know human nature.


The qur'an has the answer to that question. Verse 47:4 says, "Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds. Then, either free them by grace or ransom until war shall lay down its loads, in this way, it shall be. Had Allah willed, He would have been victorious over them; except that He might test you......."


Not blaming Islam is like not blaming Hitler and Naziism, but the people who took their orders. You can't have followers with no lead to follow.




Blaming islam is like blaming guns for killing people. I could lay a Qur'an on my front porch for YEARS and nobody would die. Your example - not the same thing. Hitler acted on the will of the people. Hitler was in control and responsbile to clarify his instructions - and people had the responsibility to ignore or agree with hitler's instructions. Had folks not-agreed-enough with hitler, he would not have risen to power.

And to your quoting 'a verse' - you didn't provide any - ANY context for that bit which makes it not a good piece of evidence to support your position.

[stevecanuck]

What gives you the idea I've studied Islam based on my OP? I know a bit about it - but more than that, I know human nature.




Blaming islam is like blaming guns for killing people. I could lay a Qur'an on my front porch for YEARS and nobody would die. Your example - not the same thing. Hitler acted on the will of the people. Hitler was in control and responsbile to clarify his instructions - and people had the responsibility to ignore or agree with hitler's instructions. Had folks not-agreed-enough with hitler, he would not have risen to power.

And to your quoting 'a verse' - you didn't provide any - ANY context for that bit which makes it not a good piece of evidence to support your position.

You asked why an all-powerful god requires others to do his killing for him, and I gave you the reason. It's a test. It says so. If you don't want to accept that, then I'm afraid I just won't get any sleep tonight worrying about it.


As for not blaming the religion that teaches hatred and warfare for hatred and warfare? That's just too stupid to comment on any further.

[jafar00]

now come on...it's not 'a few' that are doing bad.

It's perhaps MILLIONS. Thousands, easily.

Do you think a mufti COULD issue a fatwā regarding jihad against terrorists?

Millions? If it were so, I doubt you would be here to talk about it. That would make it an army of crazed idiots who don't care about dying that is larger than the US Army. You are exaggerating somewhat eh?


I would think that a billion and a half or so 'real Muslims would be outraged that a 'few that are doing bad things' and take action against those few. I guess I just do not understand the 'real' Muslim mindset.

Some have taken action. Most recently FSA soldiers who have been at war with ISIS and Al Nusra in addition to Bashar Assad since early 2014.

You would do well to visit a Mosque some time and hear what regular Joe (or should that be Mo? :P) Muslims think about terrorism? Maybe sit in on some of our Friday sermons? Every now and then we get the warning to pay heed to the limits Allah set out for us in life and to not transgress those limits as these terrorists clearly do.

There are many and numerous fatwas against terrorism and terrorist groups. You just aren't listening and mainstream western press is too busy covering the sexier stories and giving the terrorists free publicity for their cause.


The qur'an has the answer to that question. Verse 47:4 says, "Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers smite their necks, then, when you have killed many of them, tie the bonds. Then, either free them by grace or ransom until war shall lay down its loads, in this way, it shall be. Had Allah willed, He would have been victorious over them; except that He might test you......."


That verse was for the Battle of Uhud in 625AD, and you know it. Stop using out of context quotes to push your hateful agenda. Only people who know very little about Islam believe you.

[darin]

You asked why an all-powerful god requires others to do his killing for him, and I gave you the reason. It's a test. It says so. If you don't want to accept that, then I'm afraid I just won't get any sleep tonight worrying about it.


I'm asking for LEGITIMATE reasons; not something contrived or perhaps mis-interpreted. Using one out of context passage does NOT a LEGITIMATE argument make ;)



As for not blaming the religion that teaches hatred and warfare for hatred and warfare? That's just too stupid to comment on any further.


That's a fallacy - instead of discussing, you're trying to insult. Means you are not creative or intelligent enough to offer solid counter-points. Enjoy!




Millions? If it were so, I doubt you would be here to talk about it. That would make it an army of crazed idiots who don't care about dying that is larger than the US Army. You are exaggerating somewhat eh?

Have you statistics? Guessing? Could be millions OR I could be wrong in my estimate (hence the word 'perhaps'). Lemme tell you, 1 Million-man Armies are no match for the US Forces in a force-on-force conflict. Line up 1 Million ANYONE and I can guarantee the US Military would whoop their ass. Technology is a force-mulitplier my friend :)



You would do well to visit a Mosque some time and hear what regular Joe (or should that be Mo? :P) Muslims think about terrorism? Maybe sit in on some of our Friday sermons? Every now and then we get the warning to pay heed to the limits Allah set out for us in life and to not transgress those limits as these terrorists clearly do.


I'm thinking about taking my kids to an islamic center around here; just to sorta introduce them to the faith as a way of removing irrational fear.

[stevecanuck]

That verse was for the Battle of Uhud in 625AD, and you know it. Stop using out of context quotes to push your hateful agenda. Only people who know very little about Islam believe you.

Yes, it concerned the Battle of Uhud, and yes I knew that. So what? Every single verse in the Qur'an refers to something that happened at least 1400 years ago. So, by your logic the entire Qur'an is out of context? Time to throw yours away I guess.


The Qur'an, according to itself, is presented as a series of commands and parables so that Man may take admonition. That means you're supposed to read it and take lessons from it, and apply those lessons to the time in which you live.



You are such a transparent, lying hack.






I'm asking for LEGITIMATE reasons; not something contrived or perhaps mis-interpreted. Using one out of context passage does NOT a LEGITIMATE argument make


Ok, I don't know what you want. The verse I gave you is NOT contrived. It's in the qur'an. Deal with it. As for mis-interpertation, I use an Islamic web site for my interpretations specifically so people like you won't have a leg to stand on. See for yourself: http://islaam.net (http://islaam.net/)

[fj1200]

So, by your logic the entire Qur'an is out of context? Time to throw yours away I guess.

Welp, there goes the bible. Time to dust off my copy of Dianetics. :dunno:

[darin]

Ok, I don't know what you want. The verse I gave you is NOT contrived. It's in the qur'an. Deal with it. As for mis-interpertation, I use an Islamic web site for my interpretations specifically so people like you won't have a leg to stand on. See for yourself: http://islaam.net (http://islaam.net/)


The verse you gave is out of context. Because you did not provide context it offers NO credible evidence to your claim. S


hould I use this out-of-context verse to prove the Bible says God doesn't exist:

Pslams 14:1
“There is no God.”

or

Pslams 137:9
"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"

As an out-of-context justification to kill babies with impunity.

or maybe

Acts 10:13
And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

As justification to kill and eat ANYTHING I desire?


If you're going to cite statements out of context you will lose EVERY debate you have. More importantly, doing so shows you care less about objectivity in dicussions and you show a desire to find the evidence that supports YOUR PERSONAL VIEWPOINT more than to find the truth. As you mature and grow understanding you might discover not EVERYTHING written to one person or group in scripture is an instruction to everyone for the rest of time.

[stevecanuck]

The verse you gave is out of context. Because you did not provide context it offers NO credible evidence to your claim. S


hould I use this out-of-context verse to prove the Bible says God doesn't exist:

Pslams 14:1
“There is no God.”

or

Pslams 137:9
"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"

As an out-of-context justification to kill babies with impunity.

or maybe

Acts 10:13
And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

As justification to kill and eat ANYTHING I desire?


If you're going to cite statements out of context you will lose EVERY debate you have. More importantly, doing so shows you care less about objectivity in dicussions and you show a desire to find the evidence that supports YOUR PERSONAL VIEWPOINT more than to find the truth. As you mature and grow understanding you might discover not EVERYTHING written to one person or group in scripture is an instruction to everyone for the rest of time.

You can bray "out of context" all you want, but it doesn't mean you're right. Take verse 17:89 for example. It starts with, "Indeed We have set forth for mankind in this Qur'an every kind of parable....". Can you dream up a context in which that doesn't mean exactly what it says?

[darin]

You can bray "out of context" all you want, but it doesn't mean you're right. Take verse 17:89 for example. It starts with, "Indeed We have set forth for mankind in this Qur'an every kind of parable....". Can you dream up a context in which that doesn't mean exactly what it says?


I'm sorry your argument sucks. Not my fault.

[Drummond]

There are many and numerous fatwas against terrorism and terrorist groups. You just aren't listening and mainstream western press is too busy covering the sexier stories and giving the terrorists free publicity for their cause.

MANY and NUMEROUS, eh ? Really ?

I have to concede something to you, though, Jafar. I took some time out to try and test this ... thinking I'd find no evidence whatever of any such 'fatwa'. Well ... here's the thing ... I actually DID find evidence of ONE.

Honestly, you could've knocked knocked me down with a Semtex invoice !!! I was amazed. But, yes, there is ONE that I now know of.

There's this character called 'Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri' ... who's issued one.

WHEN he has, is interesting. See ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa_on_Terrorism


Fatwa on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings is a 600-page (Urdu version), 512-page (English version) Islamic decree by scholar Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri which demonstrates from the Quran and Sunnah that terrorism and suicide bombings are unjust and evil, and thus un-Islamic. It was published in London as a book. The English edition was published in the UK by Minhaj-ul-Quran Publications. Qadri released the fatwa on 2 March 2010. This fatwa is a direct refutation of the ideology of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It is one of the most extensive Islamic anti-terrorism rulings, an "absolute" condemnation of terrorism without "any excuses or pretexts" which goes further than ever and declares that terrorism is kufr under Islamic law. The launch was organised by Minhaj-ul-Quran UK. Qadri said during the launch that "Terrorism is terrorism, violence is violence and it has no place in Islamic teaching and no justification can be provided for it, or any kind of excuses or ifs or buts."

Qadri at a news conference in London explaining the Fatwa on Terrorism

The fatwa received widespread media attention and was positively covered by the international press.

According to CNN, experts see the fatwa as a significant blow to terrorist recruiting. CNN's Amanpour show added the fatwa summary to its website and declared it to be fatwa for peace, while the US State Department declares the fatwa to be significant step in taking Islam back from terrorists.

Before it had been released, Douglas Murray described the Fatwa on Terrorism, in an article in the Evening Standard, as "potentially important", although he said "A single-fatwa will not change the level of denial and self criticism inherent in so much of modern Islam".

ITV news channel questioned the credibility of the fatwa and asks if it was not by the British government because senior counter-terrorism officials from Scotland Yard and MI5 were present at the launch.

So, some cynicism from ITV News (the BBC's most direct domestic competitor, and so unlikely to automatically buy into the BBC's political correctness), wondering if British officials were driving the initiative themselves. I note also that this 'fatwa' was A SIX HUNDRED PAGE BOOK (??) ... so ... er'm, are we talking book sales, here ??

BUT - note its issuing-year - 2010.

Now, really, Jafar, how come it took this character NINE YEARS after 9/11 to issue his 'fatwa' ?? Or, if you prefer, FIVE years after the London bombings ???

I find that 'strange'.

Don't you find that 'strange', Jafar ?

I also question what any such 'fatwa' could ever achieve. How would it work ? Are Al Qaeda, etc etc going to take fright in the face of it, anytime soon ??

My conclusion: such 'fatwas' are little better than gimmicks which serve Islam-sanitisers such as yourself, Jafar, to say nothing of the interests of one 'Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri'. They're a 'nice thought'. But what ELSE could they possibly be ?

IN THE MEANTIME, OF COURSE, ISLAMIC TERRORISM JUST CONTINUES .. NOT 'CHASTENED' OR 'HUMBLED', NOT IMPEDED AT ALL.

[jafar00]

Have you statistics? Guessing? Could be millions OR I could be wrong in my estimate (hence the word 'perhaps'). Lemme tell you, 1 Million-man Armies are no match for the US Forces in a force-on-force conflict. Line up 1 Million ANYONE and I can guarantee the US Military would whoop their ass. Technology is a force-mulitplier my friend :)

You'd have to ask someone in the Al Qaeda records department :D From my experience with praying in Mosques all around the world, the amount of extremists is very low. In fact, I've never met anyone spouting extremist rhetoric apart from one time in France when a bunch of Salafi idiots wasted their time telling me I would go to hell for using Tasbih (Prayer beads).




I'm thinking about taking my kids to an islamic center around here; just to sorta introduce them to the faith as a way of removing irrational fear.

Good on you for actively teaching your kids about diverse cultures instead of letting them hear rhetoric from hate mongers.




Yes, it concerned the Battle of Uhud, and yes I knew that. So what? Every single verse in the Qur'an refers to something that happened at least 1400 years ago. So, by your logic the entire Qur'an is out of context? Time to throw yours away I guess.

I'm not the one trying to use a verse out of context to try and condone terrorist actions today.


Ok, I don't know what you want. The verse I gave you is NOT contrived. It's in the qur'an. Deal with it. As for mis-interpertation, I use an Islamic web site for my interpretations specifically so people like you won't have a leg to stand on. See for yourself: http://islaam.net (http://islaam.net/)

And I speak to real people and scholars and attend classes to learn about Islam. I also ask questions and consult the Tafsir when I don't fully understand something. You can't learn much just by reading and making your own mind up any more than you can read a medical book and consider yourself a doctor.


You can bray "out of context" all you want, but it doesn't mean you're right. Take verse 17:89 for example. It starts with, "Indeed We have set forth for mankind in this Qur'an every kind of parable....". Can you dream up a context in which that doesn't mean exactly what it says?


17:89 is about faith, not about twisting verses out of context to fit your terrorist supporting agenda. The people of Mecca refused to believe unless the miracles they demanded, appeared before them.

For CONTEXT.....

Say: 'If mankind and jinn combined together to produce the like of this Koran, they would never be able to produce one like it, not even if they were to help one another'
Indeed, We have set forth for mankind in this Qur'aan every kind of parable, yet most people refuse all except disbelief.
They say: 'We will not believe in you until you make a spring gush from the earth for us,
or, until you own a garden of palms and vines and cause rivers to gush forth with abundant water in them;
or, until you cause the sky to fall upon us in pieces, as you have claimed, or, as a surety bring Allah with the angels in front;
or, until you possess an ornate house of gold, or ascend into the heavens; and we will not believe in your ascension until you have brought down for us a book which we can read' Say: 'Exaltations to my Lord! Am I anything except a human Messenger'
Nothing prevented people from believing when guidance came to them but (the excuse): 'Has Allah sent a human as a Messenger'
Say: 'Had there been angels walking at peace in the earth, We would have sent down an angel from heaven to them as a Messenger'
Say: 'Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you. He knows and observes His worshipers'
(17:88-96)


MANY and NUMEROUS, eh ? Really ?

I have to concede something to you, though, Jafar. I took some time out to try and test this ... thinking I'd find no evidence whatever of any such 'fatwa'. Well ... here's the thing ... I actually DID find evidence of ONE.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=islamic+condemnation+of+terrorism

[jafar00]

MANY and NUMEROUS, eh ? Really ?

I have to concede something to you, though, Jafar. I took some time out to try and test this ... thinking I'd find no evidence whatever of any such 'fatwa'. Well ... here's the thing ... I actually DID find evidence of ONE.


And just in case you didn't bother to click that lmgtfy link, here is a wall of text and links for you from http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part _i_fatwas/ :poke:

Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part I Fatwas & Formal Statements by Muslim Scholars & Organizations
compiled by Sheila Musaji
updated 1/28/2012
Note: In addition to fatwas, numerous Muslim leaders, scholars, and organizations in the United States and other countries have spoken out against terrorism and extremism. You can find further information in the following article collections. We only list a few actual quotes here, but many more can be found in the collections.
- Qur’an & Hadith against extremism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quranic_verses_against_extremism/0013622) (see also power point presentations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/powerpoint_presentations/))
- Part II Statements by Organizations has now been included in Part I
- Part III (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_voices_again st_extremism_and_terrorism_part_iii_statements_art icles%2F0012211) Statements and Articles by Individuals (see also power point presentations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/powerpoint_presentations/))
- Muslim Voices Promoting Islamic Non Violent Solutions (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fpromoting_islamic_n on_violent_solutions%2F)
- Part IV (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_voices_again st_extremism_and_terrorism_a_few_quotes%2F0012273) A Few Quotes against extremism and terrorism A-K, and A Few Quotes against extremism and terrorism L-Z (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_a_fe w_quotes_l_z/0014337)
- Part V (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_voices_again st_extremism_and_terrorim_part_v_the_muslim_majori ty_who%2F0012322) The Muslim Majority Who Don’t Get Publicity (see also power point presentation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/powerpoint_presentations/))
- Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. Military (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslims_in_the_military/0013612)
- Selective Hearing of Muslim Voices Against Extremism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fselective_hearing_o f_muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism%2F 0012212)
- Sunni Shia Unity Resource (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fsunni_shiah_unity_r esources1%2F0012423)

FATWAS & FORMAL STATEMENTS BY MUSLIM SCHOLARS AND BY MUSLIM ORGANIZATIONS
20 North American Imams Issue Fatwa Against Terrorists (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theamericanmuslim.org %2Ftam.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2F20_north_americ an_imams_issue_fatwa_against_terrorists%2F0017835) 2010
6,000 Indian Ulama (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.c om%2FHyderabad%2FUlama_endorse_fatwa_against_terro r%2Farticleshow%2F3689923.cms) Islamic scholars endorsed a fatwa, called the Hyderabad Declaration, that declares that all forms of terrorism are against the spirit of Islam. 2008
A Common Word Between Us and You (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/unprecedented_plea_from_muslim_to_christian_schola rs_on_eve_of_eid/), Muslim Scholars Appeal to Christian Scholars for Dialogue and Peace on Eve of Eid 2007
A Joint Buddhist-Muslim Statement (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fa-joint-buddhist-muslim-statement-on-intercommunal-violence-in-burma) on Inter–Communal Violence in Burma 10/12
King Abdullah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.findarticles.com%2Fp% 2Farticles%2Fmi_m0WDQ%2Fis_2005_Dec_19%2Fai_n15957 357) (Jordan) urges Muslims to unite against extremism 12/05
Abdullah, Sh. M. Nur (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffatwa_freedom_of_be lief_minority_rights_in_muslim_countries%2F), FCNA (U.S.) minority rights & apostasy 3/06
Abdulkadir, Dr. Deina (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) FCNA (U.S.) Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Abdullah, Shaikh Muhammad Nur (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Abu Dhabi conference (http://www.antiwar.com/ips/janardhan.php?articleid=4064) - 500 Muslim scholars challenge extremist “fatwas”
ADAMS Center All Dulles Area Muslim Society (ADAMS) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FCon tent.asp%3FID%3D181) condemns terrorism. condemns plot to attack the Armed Forces Recruitment Station in Catonsville, MD 12/10 - The All Dulles Area Muslim Society (ADAMS) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP28.aspx) condemns alleged threat on Facebook against Washington DC Metro System - ADAMS (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP29.aspx)condemns attacks on Christians in Egypt and Nigeria. - ADAMS (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP27.aspx) encourages community members to report any suspicious behavior. - ADAMS (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP23.aspx) condemns the attempted terror attack on a Delta-Northwest Airlines flight. - ADAMS (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP21.aspx) condemns the attack at Ft. Hood. - ADAMS (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adamscenter.org%2FMed ia%2FPressReleases%2FP9.aspx) condemns the terror attacks in London 2005
Adi, Imam Tammam (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffanatics_and_terror ists_are_misguided%2F) - Fanatics and Terrorists are Misguided 9/02 - Adi, Imam Tammam (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamfortoday.com%2Fa di08.htm) - on War 5/2003
AESM Interfaith Dialogue (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unaoc.org%2Frepositor y%2FLarnacaActionPlan.pdf) Larnaca Action Plan 7/06
Afghan clerics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/519776.stm) issue fatwa against bin Laden 1999
AAI-USA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Faai_condemns_irania n_presidents_holocaust_denial_gathering%2F) Condemns Iranian President’s Holocaust Denial Gathering 12/06
al Abidin, Ali Zain al Jifri (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic Scholar (Yemen) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Prof. Dr. Ahmet Akgunduz (http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/02_15/opinion.html#a_akgunduz), Rector, Islamic University of Rotterdam Netherlands - A Muslim cannot be a Terrorist and a Terrorist cannot be a Muslim
Allahu Akbar.net (http://www.allaahuakbar.net/JIHAAD/murder_manslaughter_terrorism.htm) Murder, Manslaughter & Terrorism All in the Name of Allah
Al-Akiti, Shaykh Muhammad Afifi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livingislam.org%2Fmaa %2Fdcmm_e.html) – against killing civilians 6/05 and [2] (http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/convergence-of-traditionalism-and-jihadism/)
All India Muslim Personal Law Board issues fatwa against (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Farticles.timesofindia.ind iatimes.com%2F2008-02-19%2Findia%2F27768188_1_girl-ifa-marriage) forced marriages
Amjad, Moiz (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muhajabah.com%2Fother scondemn.php) – Refutation of bin Laden’s defense of terrorism (Pakistan)
al Alwani, Shaykh Taha Jabir (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (U.S.) against 9/11 attack 9/01 - Al Alwani, Dr. Taha Jabir (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Al Alwani, Shaikhah Zainab (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
al Alwini, Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Head of European Academy of Islamic Culture & Sciences, Brussels (Belgium) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhaab al-‘Aqeel (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fatwa-online.com%2Fdownloads%2Fdow004%2Fislamagainstterr orism.chm) (Saudi Arabia) 2005 “Terrorism is the terror that is caused by those groups or individuals who resort to killing and wreaking havoc and destruction. Terrorism is therefore, according to the contemporary compilers of modern Arabic dictionaries, killing akin to the riotous killing that is mentioned within the texts of Shar’eeah. As the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wassallam) mentioned with regards to the signs of the end of time, the spread of ‘al-Harj’ (riotous killing). The meaning of ‘al-Harj’ is killing and the increase of the spilling blood, which is all from the signs of the end of time. To the extent that the one killing will not know why he is killing and the one that was killed will not know why he/she was killed. Islam is free from this riotous killing, free from this terrorism and free from this kind of corruption. Terrorism is established upon destruction of properties such as factories, farms, places of worship, train stations, airports and the likes; Islam is clearly free from such actions that are based upon corruption and not upon rectification. Terrorists usually say that they are going against the state in which they are based within. This is like the mafia or other criminal organisations that are based on killing people, causing fear and taking their monies. Such criminal organisations have leaders, deputies and individuals that are responsible for establishing regulations for the organisation and individuals responsible for carrying out attacks, and all of them are terrorists causing corruption on the earth. However the ugliest face of terrorism is that which is established in the name of religion, all of the religions from the Prophets (peace be upon them) are free from such terrorism, even if some of the followers of the Prophets participated in such terrorist activities, but the Prophets are free from such corruptions.”
al Awda, Salman ibn Fahad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) General Supervisor of “Islam Today” Institution (Saudi Arabia) 2/06 Danish cartoons and he denounces al Qaeda and bin Laden (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=101271&d=17&m=9&y=2007&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom) 10/07
Al-Awdah, Shaykh Salman (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muhajabah.com%2Fislam icblog%2Farchives%2Fveiled4allah%2F005498.php) (Saudi Arabia) condemns terrorism 5/03
Al Azhari, Muhammad Akhtar Rida (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Head of Barelwi Ulama (India) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Bouti, Muhammad Saeed (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Ramadan Department Chair of Theology, University of Damascus (Syria) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Dr Saleh Bin Fouzan Al Fouzan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytimes.com.pk%2Fd efault.asp%3Fpage%3D2009%5C07%5C09%5Cstory_9-7-2009_pg7_6), a member of the Senior Clerics Commission of Saudi Arabia condemned terrorist activities carried out in Pakistan in the name of Islam by Al Qaeda and the Taliban. 7/09
Al Hanooti, Shaikh Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
al-Hanooti, Sheikh Muhammad Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.net%2Fliv efatwa%2Fenglish%2FBrowse.asp%3FhGuestID%3DpdwD2E) - against 9/11 (U.S.) 9/01 “The people who attacked the WTC and Pentagon and hijacked the forth plane that crashed in Pennsylvania are criminal who deserve the severest punishment as the Quran elaborates. They are murderers and terrorists. If there were any person who felt happy for that incident we would not be able to equate them with those criminals, but we can say no one with faith and ethics would accept anything of that murder and targeting of innocent people.”
al-Hitar, Judge Hamoud (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmonitor.com%2F2005% 2F0204%2Fp01s04-wome.html) (Yemen) he and four other Islamic scholars used Qur’an to challenge Al Qaeda’s views on terror 2/05
Al Husary, Yasmin Mahmud Khalil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Head of Husary Islamic Foundation (Egypt) 2/06 Danish cartoons
al Jundi, Khalid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic Scholar (Egypt) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Kahlawi, Abla Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Dean of Islamic & Arabic Studies College at Azhar University, Port Said (Egypt) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Khalili, Ahmad bin Hamad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) General Mufti of the Sultanate of Oman (Oman) 2/06 Danish cartoons
al Kubaysi, Ahmad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic spokesperson (Iraq) 2/06 Danish cartoons
al Luheidan, Shaikh Saleh (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudiembassy.net%2FRe portLink%2FReport_Extremism_May04.pdf) Chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council (Saudi Arabia) against 9/11 9/01
Al Mansur, Muhammad bin Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Islamic Scholar of the Zaydi branch(Yemen) 2/06 Danish cartoons
al Mazrui, Hamdan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Muslim Assistant Undersecretary for Islamic Affairs in Ministry of Endowments (UAE) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Milibari, Abu Bakr Ahmad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Secretary General of Ahl al Sunna Association (India) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Mashur, Abu Bakr al Adani bin Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) General Director of Islamic Tarbiya League (Yemen) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al-Munajid, Shaykh Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamqa.com%2Findex.p hp%3Fref%3D21757%26ln%3Deng), against violence
Al Mutawwaa, Jasim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Head of Iqra Satellite Channel (Kuwait) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al-Oudah, Sheikh Salman ibn Fahad (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=101271&d=17&m=9&y=2007&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom), Saudi Arabia - statement rejecting bin Laden and al Qaeda 2007 - on obligation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faithinallah.org%2Fob eying-the-law-in-non-muslim-countries%2F) of Muslims to obey the laws of the country they live in 2011
al Qaradawi, Shaykh Yusuf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Qatar) against 9/11 attack 9/01 “All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of Judgment. ... [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement, financing or other support. They must be brought to justice in an impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. ... [It is] a duty of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means.” - Al-Qaradawi, Shaykh Yusuf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muhajabah.com%2Fislam icblog%2Farchives%2Fveiled4allah%2F001205.php) – condemns Bali attacks 10/02 “Islam not only prohibits attacking non-Muslims who do not launch attacks against Muslims, but it also urges Muslims to treat those non-Muslims with due respect and kindness, especially non-Muslims who live along with Muslims within the Islamic territories. - al Qaradawi, Shaykh Yusuf (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1209357797171&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout) issues fatwa permitting building of places of worship for non-Muslims in Muslim countries 5/08 - al-Qaradawi, Shaykh Yusuf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamfortoday.com%2Fq aradawi02.htm) - against harming places of worship (specifically a Jewish synagogue) 4/02 - - against London bombings (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.net%2FEng lish%2FNews%2F2005-07%2F07%2Farticle07.shtml) 2005 “We were dumbfounded by the grave news of the London bombings which killed tens and wounded hundreds of innocent people who committed no crime. Even at the time of war when state armies battle face to face, it is not permissible to kill women, children, elders, priests, farmers and merchants; people we nowadays call civilians. - Al-Qaradawi, Shaykh Yusuf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.net%2Feng lish%2FContemporary%2F2003%2F10%2FArticle02.shtml) Jihad Renegotiated. 3/08 he urges the release (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL16337582)of the Austrians being held by al Qaeda.
al Qarni, A’id (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic Scholar (Saudi Arabia) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Qazwini, Imam Sayed Moustafa (http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?mid1=676&&ArticleID=24064&&name=n&&currPage=1) rejects Al-Qaeda call to greet Pres. Bush with bombs in Palestine
Al Qudat, Nuh Ali Salman (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned scholar of Jordan, former Mufti of the Jordanian Army (Jordan) 2/06 Danish cartoons
al Sabil, Shaykh Muhammad bin ‘Abdallah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) member of the Council of Senior Religious Scholars (Saudi Arabia) against terrorism, obligation to protect non Muslims 12/01 “Any attack on innocent people is unlawful and contrary to shari’a (Islamic law). ... Muslims must safeguard the lives, honor and property of Christians and Jews. Attacking them contradicts shari’a.”
al Saffar, Hasan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Shiite Islamic Spokesperson (Saudi Arabia) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Ayatollah al-Udhma Yousof al-Sanei (http://www.roozonline.com/archives/2007/02/002139.php)decreed a fatwa against suicide bombing, declaring it as a “terrorist act”. 2/2007
Dr. Salah al-Sawy (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defendtheprophet.com% 2Ffatwa-muslims-in-non-muslim-countries-must-obey-laws-of-the-land) Fatwa: Muslims in non-Muslim countries must obey laws of the land
al-Shaykh (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2014), Shaykh Abd al-Aziz bin Abdallah Al Shaykh of Saudi Arabia issues fatwa against suicide terrorist attacks 4/2001 “Firstly: the recent developments in the United States including hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts. Secondly: any Muslim who is aware of the teachings of his religion and who adheres to the directives of the Holy Qur’an and the sunnah (the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad) will never involve himself in such acts, because they will invoke the anger of God Almighty and lead to harm and corruption on earth.” - fatwa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudiembassy.net%2FRe portLink%2FReport_Extremism_May04.pdf)against terrorism 2004 “You must know Islam’s firm position against all these terrible crimes. The world must know that Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and goodness; it is a religion of justice and guidance…Islam has forbidden violence in all its forms. It forbids the hijacking airplanes, ships and other means of transport, and it forbids all acts that undermine the security of the innocent.” - fatwa against London attack (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fatwa-online.com%2Fnews%2F0050709.htm) 2005 The London attacks, “targeting peaceful people, are not condoned by Islam, and are indeed prohibited by our religion. ... Attributing to Islam acts of individual or collective killings, bombings, destruction of properties and the terrorizing of peaceful people is unfair, because they are alien to the divine religion.” - issues fatwa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fhostedne ws%2Fafp%2Farticle%2FALeqM5j4PqBza4qupiS7pKJVQ8wX0 Nd96Q) that denounced terror attacks as un-Islamic and condemned the killing of civilians, saying such attacks have nothing to do with the Muslim religion. 2/2010
Al-Sudeis, Sheikh Abdulrahman (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fsaud i%2Fstory%2F0%2C11599%2C1394920%2C00.html) – (Saudi Arabia) tells 2 million pilgrims at Hajj that violence is not justified by Islam 1/05
al-Sistani, Grand Ayatollah Ali (http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=313) issues fatwa to Muslims in Western nations, urging them to obey the laws of the countries in which they live. 6/06 He said in part: “Muslims have undertaken to obey the laws of the country of their residence and thus they must be faithful to that undertaking”. It condemned all acts of violence and encouraged imams to keep a watchful eye on what’s going on inside their mosques. “Any Muslim man or woman must act in the best interests of his or her country of residence by protecting it from all acts that might put this country in jeopardy.”

Shaykh Salih al-Suhaymi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fatwaonline.com%2Fnew s%2F0011018.htm) (Saudi Arabia) 2001 “Based upon what has preceded, then we say that that which we believe and hold as our religion concerning what happened to the World Trade Centre in America – and in Allaah lies success – that the terrorist attacks that took place and what occurred of general (mass) killing, then it is not permissible and Islaam does not allow it in any form whatsoever.”
al Suweidan, Tariq (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic Spokesperson (Kuwait) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Al Tantawi, Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) Imam of al Azhar Mosque (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01“Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be punished on the day of judgement. ... It’s not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.” - Al-Tantawi, Sheikh Muhammad Syed (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2 Fworld%2Fmiddle_east%2F1690624.stm) Condemned suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, and all terrorism 12/01 - condemned Russian school kidnapping (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1297664,00.html) 2004 - against London bombings (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.net%2FEng lish%2FNews%2F2005-07%2F07%2Farticle07.shtml) 2005 “Those responsible for London attacks are criminals who do not represent Islam or even truly understand (its message) ... These crimes are not accepted by any religion. It is a barbarism wholly rejected by Islam - Al-Tantawi, Shaykh M. Sayyid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usembassyjakarta.org% 2Flawmaker.html) condemns bin Laden 11/01
Alush Shaykh, Shaykh ‘Abdul ‘Aziz (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunnahonline.com%2Fil m%2Fcontemporary%2F0020.htm) Grand Mufti (Saudi Arabia) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Alush Shaykh, Shaykh ‘Abdul ‘Aziz (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ict.org.il%2Farticles %2Farticledet.cfm%3Farticleid%3D214)Grand Mufti (Saudi Arabia) against suicide terrorism 5/01
al Zuhayli, Wahba (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Department Chair of Islamic Jurisprudence, College of Islamic Law, Damascus University (Syria) 2/06 Danish cartoons
AMANA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Famana_issues_a_stat ement_against_any_violence_against_burn_a_quran_de monstr%2F) issues a statement against any violence against “Burn a Qur’an” demonstration

American Muslim leaders release intrafaith code of honor (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mwlusa.org%2Fnews%2Fc ode_of_honor.html) Sunni Shia cooperation 4/07
American and Canadian Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fa_defense_of_free_s peech_by_american_and_canadian_muslims%2F) issue statement in defense of free speech 10/10
American Islamic Congress (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,245313.shtml) Launches New Anti-Suicide Bombing Campaign for Eid Al-Adha Holiday 2007
American Muslim Alliance, Agha Saeed (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amaweb.org%2FAMA%2520 Condemns.html) statement against 9/11 attacks
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icna.org%2Fwtc_pr.htm ) statement against 9/11 attacks by 15 organizations 9/01
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muhajabah.com%2Fislam icblog%2Farchives%2Fveiled4allah%2F008824.php) – condemn Berg beheading 5/04
American Muslim organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffort_hood_shooting_ a_tragedy%2F) condemn Fort Hood shooting 11/09
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_repudiates_anw ar_al_awlakis_praise_for_fort_hood_shooter%2F) Repudiate Anwar al-Awlaki’s Praise for Fort Hood Shooter 11/09
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Famerican_muslim_org anizations_welcome_gadahns_arrest_condemn_his_call _%2F) Welcome Gadahn’s Arrest & Condemn His Call for Terrorism 3/10

American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ftimes_square_attemp ted_bombing%2F) condemn the Times Square attempted bombing 4/10
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theamericanmuslim.org %2Ftam.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_condemns_h einous_criminal_terrorist_act_against_egyptian_chu rch%2F0018322) (MPAC, ISNA, CAIR) condemn attacks on churches in Alexandria, Egypt and Nigeria 1/11
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Famerican_muslim_org anizations_condemn_brutal_killing_of_pakistans_min i) Condemn Brutal Killing of Pakistan’s Minister for Minorities 3/11
American Muslim Organizations’ (ISNA, MPAC, CAIR) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Famerican-muslim-organizations-issue-statements-on-pakistani-blasphemy-arres) Issue Statements on Pakistani Blasphemy Arrest 8/12
American Muslim CEO’s (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fmoney% 2F2004-05-18-muslim-ceos_x.htm) Fight Terrorism
American Muslim Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/no24orce/petition.html) to Saudi Arabia objecting to forced divorces and demanding reform
American Muslim Political Coordination Cuncil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcapwiz.com%2Fcair%2Fissue s%2Falert%2F%3Falertid%3D49818%26type%3DCU%26azip% 3D) statement against 9/11 attacks 9/01
American Muslim Alliance (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (AMA) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
American Muslim Foundation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (AMF) - - against 9/11 (U.S.)
American Muslim Imams and Community Leaders (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forward.com%2Farticle s%2F130171%2F%23ixzz1A1pzWHCM) Statement on Holocaust Denial and anti-Semitismand ** (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fstatement_of_americ an_muslim_imams_and_community_leaders_on_holocaust _denia%2F) 8/10
American Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2004%26m%3DJune%26x%3D20040624183757 aaywalhsib-le0.5460932) condemn beheadings
American Muslim statement affirming Freedom of Faith (http://apostasyandislam.blogspot.com/) “On Apostasy and Islam”, signed by over 100 notable Muslim voices
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (AMGPJ) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
American Muslims for Jerusalem (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (AMJ) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
American Muslim Leaders (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fus_muslim_leaders_c all_for_release_of_journalist_in_iraq%2F) call for release of journalist in Iraq 1/06
American Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alhewar.com%2Fstateme nt_on_taliban_destruction.htm) Issue Statement Against Taliban Destruction of Buddhist Statues of Bamiyan by the Taliban

American Muslim Leaders Sign ‘Code of Honor’ (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_leaders_sign_code_of_honor_to_promote_intra faith_harmony/)to Promote Intrafaith Harmony between Sunni & Shia
American Muslims & Scholars denounce terrorism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.csidonline.org%2Fpre ss-releases%2F23-press-releases%2F405-american-muslims-and-scholars-denounce-terrorism) (signed by 57 leaders of National Islamic Organizations and 199 International scholars) 9/2002
AMMAN STATEMENT (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/international_islamic_conference_in_amman/) against Takfir, declaring that there are 8 schools of law - signed by 170 international scholars 2005
Amman Conference (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fme.as p%3Fservice_ID%3D8831) bans killings in name of Islam (signed by 180 scholars) 7/05
Ankara Declaration (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unaoc.org%2Frepositor y%2FAnkara_Declaration.pdf) Glocalization Conference (.pdf file)
Arab American Media Syndicate (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freemuslims.org%2Fnew s%2Farticle.php%3Farticle%3D32) speaks out against extremism 3/04
Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defendtheprophet.com% 2Ffatwa-on-the-fort-hood-shooting) Fatwa on Fort Hood
Assoc. of Muslim Health Professionals (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/assoc_of_muslim_health_professionals_statment_rega rding_events_in_the_uk/0014148) Statement regarding events in the UK
Australian Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muhajabah.com%2Fother scondemn.php) condemn 9/11 attack
Awwa, Muhammad S (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Badawi, Jamal (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffatwa_freedom_of_be lief_minority_rights_in_muslim_countries%2F) FCNA (U.S.) minority rights & apostasy 3/06
Badawi, Dr. Jamal (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Shaikh Zaki Badawi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair.com%2FPortals%2F 0%2Fpdf%2FCondemnation_of_London_Bombings.pdf) of the U.K. Council of Imams condemned the 2005 London bombings
Bagby, Dr. Ihsan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Bakri, Shaykh Omar (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fshaykh_omar_bakri_l eader_of_al_muhajirun_condemns_9_11_attack%2F) leader of al Muhajirun (a radical group) (England) against 9/11 ** If Islamists did it—and most likely it is Islamists, because of the nature of what happened—then they have fully misunderstood the teachings of Islam. ... Even the most radical of us have condemned this. I am always considered to be a radical in the Islamic world and even I condemn it. ** 9/01
Bangladeshi Imams (http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/23948) denounce bomb terrorism 12/05
Bayyoumi, Abdel Mo’tei al Azhar (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) Islamic Research Academy, Cairo (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01“There is no terrorism or a threat to civilians in jihad [religious struggle].”
Bayyah, Abdullah bin (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Professor in King Abdalaziz University Jeddah (Mauritania) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Belkaziz, Dr. Abdelaouahed (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oic+oci.org%2Fpress%2 Fenglish%2Fseptember%25202001%2Famerica%2520on%252 0attack.htm)Secretary General of the OIC against 9/11 attack 9/01
Bishri, Tariq (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01
British Muslim Council (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.indcatholicnews.com%2 Ffatwa.html) (Britain) condemnation of London bombing & Fatwa against terrorism signed by 500 leaders 7/05
British Muslim Council (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6754417,00.html) condemns Glasgow and London terror attacks 6/07
British Muslim Scholars (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) - against terrorism (signed by 500 scholars) 7/05
CAIR (http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1675&theType=NR) backs FCNA fatwa against terrorism
CAIR-LA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair-la_condemns_two_southern_calif._anti-jewish_incidents_of_bombing_) Condemns Two Southern Calif. anti-Jewish Incidents of Bombing, Hate Crime 8/11 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/cair_condemns_bin_ladens_praise_for_9_11_hijacker/)condemns bin Laden’s Praise for 9/11 hijacker 9/07 — CAIR (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-30-2007/0004598597&EDATE=) Repudiates ‘American Al-Qaida’ Video Threats 5/07 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA74_0_2_0_M) Condemns murder of Daniel Pearl 2/02 — Council on American Islamic Relations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (CAIR) - against 9/11 (U.S.) — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_bin_l adens_praise_for_9_11_hijacker%2F) condemns bin Laden’s praise for 9/11 hijacker 9/07 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_irani an_holocaust_denial_conference%2F)condemns Iranian holocaust denial conference 12/06 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_mumba i_bombings%2F) Condemns Mumbai Bombings 7/06 —CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_irani an_holocaust_cartoon_contest%2F) Condemns Iranian Holocaust Cartoon Contest 2/06 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_egypt _bomb_attacks%2F) condemns Egyptian Bomb Attacks 7/05 — CAIR Not in the name of Islam petition (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair.com%2Fdefault.as p%3FPage%3DarticleView%26id%3D169%26theType%3DAA) (U.S.) signed by 691,531 Muslims 5/04 — CAIR Day of Unity and Prayer (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair-net.org%2Fdayofunity%2F) 9-11-03 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair-net.org%2Fdefault.asp%3FPage%3DarticleView%26id%3D 1200%26theType%3DNR) condemns Beslan killings 9/04 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcair_condemns_burni ng_of_nigerian_churches%2F) condemns burning of Nigerian churches 2/06 — CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iio.org%2Farticle.php %3Fstory%3D20030304130841821) condemns Philippines airport bombing 3/03 CAIR-CAN (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA77_0_2_0_M)condemns attack on Passover celebration in Israel 3/02 — CAIR (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1222&theType=NR) calls for release of all hostages in Iraq 2004
— CAIR (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fnot_in_the_name_of_ islam_anti_terror_tv_ads_to_air_in_minnesota%2F001 1350) launches TV ad campaign against terrorism 10/06 — CAIR (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2242&theType=NR) Condemns Attack On Seattle Jewish Center 2006 — CAIR (http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?mid1=777&&ArticleID=23361&&name=n&&currPage=1) supports house resolution 32 a call to end human rights violations against women including genital mutiliation. 10/9/07 — CAIR-CAN (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA885_0_2_0_M) condemns vandalism of Jewish homes in Toronto 3/04 — CAIR-CAN (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA87_0_2_0_M) condemns rape of Mukhtaran Mai in Pakistan 7/02 — CAIR-CAN (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA63_0_2_0_M) condemns killing of innocent Christians in Pakistan 10/01 — CAIR-CAN (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair-+net.org%2Fdefault.asp%3FPage%3DarticleView%26id%3 D1397%26theType%3DNR) offers condolences to Coptic Christian community 1/05
120 Canadian Imams (http://www.caircan.ca/downloads/PC-IS-072105.pdf)issue fatwa against terrorism and extremism 7/05
Canadian Council of Imams (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcanadian_council_of _imams_strongly_condemns_barbaric_act_of_vandalism _) Strongly Condemns Barbaric Act of Vandalism Against Synagogue 8/11
Canadian Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair-net.org%2Fdefault.asp%3FPage%3DarticleView%26id%3D 1038%26theType%3DNR) condemn anti-Jewish article 1/04
Canadian Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/twenty_canadian_muslim_organizations_urge_zero_tol erance_for_domestic_viole/) Urge ‘Zero Tolerance’ for Domestic Violence (signed by 20 organizations) 12/07
Canadian Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA76_0_2_0_M) condemn church attack in Pakistan 3/02
Canadian Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caircan.ca%2Fitn_more .php%3Fid%3DA82_0_2_0_M) condemn vandalism of Jewish synagogues 4/02
Canadian Society of Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmuslim-canada.org%2Fnews09112001.html) (Canada) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Canadian Society of Muslims (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmuslim+canada.org%2Fnews0 9112001.html) (Canada) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Catholic-Muslim Statement (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cephas-library.com%2Fcatholic%2Fcatholic_muslim_statement _on_globalization.html) on Globalization 7/01
Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia (CDHR) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fthe_center_for_demo cracy_and_human_rights_in_saudi_arabia_cdhr_condem n) Condemns Attacks on Coptic Egyptian Christians 8/11
Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy (http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp) (CSID) Statement (signed by 200 scholars) 10/01—Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islam-democracy.org%2FSept11Statement.asp) CSID - Statement on 9/11 — CSID Statement (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csidonline.org%2Finde x.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D 96%26Itemid%3D82) on London Attacks 7/05
Center for Understanding Islam (CUI) Condemns the Alleged Terrorists’ Evil Plan - Call to Action for Muslim Community Leaders http://www.cuii.org/fortdixw.htm (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cuii.org%2Ffortdixw.h tm) 5/07
Center for Understanding Islam (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cuii.org%2Ffaq%2Ffund amentalist.htm) - Fundamentalism, Extremist and Terrorism
Mustafa Ceric (http://www.livingincommunity.org/Declaration%20of%20European%20Muslims_Ceric.pdf), Grand Mufti of Bosnia - A Declaration of European Muslims
Coalition of Islamic Organizations of Chicago (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2005%26m%3DJuly%26x%3D20050721173921 xbtterrets0.2144586%26t%3Dlivefeeds%2Fwf-latest.html) condemn London bombings 7/05
Christian and Muslim Scholars issue joint Condemnation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christianpost.com%2Fa rticle%2F20101104%2Fchristians-muslims-condemn-inhumane-attack-on-baghdad-church%2F) of ‘Inhumane’ Attack on Baghdad Church 11/10 (His Royal Highness, Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal of Jordan; Dr. Muhammad Ahmed Al-Sharif, general secretary of the World Islamic Call Society; the World Council of Churches; and representatives of the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant Evangelical and Pentecostal traditions.)
Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (CCMO) - - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Council of Senior Religious Scholars (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudiembassy.net%2F20 04News%2FPress%2FPressDetail.asp%3FcYear%3D2004%26 cIndex%3D217) (Saudi Arabia) terrorism & responsibility to report 6/04
Council of Ulema (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Saudi Arabia) against terrorism 2/03
Council of Supreme Scholars (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.indianexpress.com%2Fn ews%2Fsaudi-arabia-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism%2F606258%2F) (Saudi Arabia) fatwa against all terrorism, and financing of terrorism 4/2010 declared “any act of terrorism, including providing financial support to terrorists, a crime,” regardless of where it takes place ... the financier of acts of terrorism will be considered a “partner” in the crime.
Dar ul Ehsaan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daar-ul-ehsaan.org%2Fterrorism.htm) (U.S.) – condemns all acts of terrorism
Delhi Muslim Conference (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdelhi_muslim_confer ence_condemns_terrorism%2F) condemns terrorism (India) 3/06
Deoband (Dar al Uloom) scholars (http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-32155120080226) denounce terrorism as against Islam, will circulate statement to all madrassas in India/Pakistan 2/2008
Deoband seminary in India issues fatwa against polygamy [ul=http://www.bikyamasr.com/68147/indian-islamic-seminary-issues-fatwa-says-avoid-polygamy/]**[/url]

Dr. Ali Asghar Engineer (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speroforum.com%2Fsite %2Farticle.asp%3Fid%3D29048%26t%3DIslam%253A%2B%2B Egypt%253A%2B%2B%2BMuslim%2Bleader%2Bcondemns%2Bvi olence%2Bagainst%2BChristians%2Bin%2BEgypt) (India) condemns violence against Indian Christians 3/2010
European Muslim Leaders (http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=48603) reject al Qaeda’s call for murder of Swedish cartoonist 10/07
Europe (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1755608101) - Over 400 groups sign European Muslim ‘charter of values’ pledging tolerance and respect for the laws of the countries in which they live. 1/08
Shaikh Fawzy el Zefzaf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair.com%2FPortals%2F 0%2Fpdf%2FCondemnation_of_London_Bombings.pdf) of Al Azhar against 2005 London bombings
Fadaq, Abdullah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Islamic Spokesperson (Saudi Arabia) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Mohammed Fadel (http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/honor1.html)on honor killing 2006
Fadlallah, Muhammad Husayn (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Renowned Shiite Scholar (Lebanon) 2/06 Danish cartoons - Fadlallah, Muhammad Husayn (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) Renowned Shiite Scholar (Lebanon) against 9/11 9/01 “Beside the fact that they are forbidden by Islam, these acts do not serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the sympathy of the whole world. ... Islamists who live according to the human values of Islam could not commit such crimes.” - He condemned (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair.com%2FPortals%2F 0%2Fpdf%2FCondemnation_of_London_Bombings.pdf) the 2005 London bombings - Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701863.html) grand ayatollah on meaning of Jihad 7/07 - Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/02/africa/ME-GEN-Lebanon-Honor-Killing.php) issues fatwa against honor killings 8/2007 - He has spoken specifically against bin Laden (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sullivan-county.com%2Fidentity%2Fbin_laden.html)He preaches that they were “not compatible with Shariah law,” the Koranic legal code, nor with the Islamic concept of jihad, and that the perpetrators were not martyrs as Mr. bin Laden has claimed, but “merely suicides,” because they killed innocent civilians, and in a distant land, America. In an interview with a Beirut newspaper, Al Safir, Sheik Fadlallah again accused Mr. bin Laden of having ignored Koranic texts. “There is no concept of jihad as aggressive combat,” he said, quoting verses of the Koran that Islamic theologians have argued over for centuries. In misreading these texts, he said, Mr. bin Laden had relied on “personal psychological needs,” including a “tribal urge for revenge.”
Faqih, Kaya Hajji Abdullah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Head of Langitano Academy, Islamic Scholar, East Java(Indonesia) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Federation of Islamic Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelfire.com%2Fbiz2% 2FFIANZWEB16%2FPressRelease1.html) (New Zealand) against 9/11 attacks
Fiqh Council of North America FCNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) - against terrorism (U.S.) 7/05 (endorsed by 130 Muslim organizations and leaders in the U.S
Fiqh Council of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffcna-resolution-on-being-faithful-muslims-and-loyal-americans) FCNA Resolution: On Being Faithful Muslims and Loyal Americans 11/11
FCNA condemned the Taliban shooting of Malala Yousufzai * (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmalala-yousufzai-shooting)
Fiqh Council of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/fiqh_council_of_north_america_renews_fatwa_against _religious_extremism/) Renews Fatwa Against Religious Extremism 12/07
French Muslim Leaders (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffrench_fatwa_prohib its_rioting_urges_calm%2F) Rioting, 11/05
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allaahuakbar.net%2FJI HAAD%2Fmurder_manslaughter_terrorism.htm), founder of Al-Mawrid, institute of Islamic education research undermining excuses given by those supporting terrorism
Ghannoushi, Rashid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsanews.mynet.net%2FMSANE WS%2F200109%2F20010917.15.html) President, Nahda Renaissance Movement (Tunisia) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders “Such destruction can only be condemned by any Muslim, however resentful one may be of America’s biased policies supporting occupation in Palestine, as an unacceptable attack on thousands of innocent people having no relation to American policies. Anyone familiar with Islam has no doubt about its rejection of collective punishment, based on the well-known Quranic principle that ‘no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another.’”
Gomaa, Dr. Ali (http://www.albawaba.com/en/news/209210), Grand Mufti of Egypt stands by Fatwa that women may lead Islamic nations. - Dr. Ali Gomah (http://www.worldnewsaustralia.com.au/region.php?id=137935&region=6), Grand Mufti of Egypt bans female genital mutilation 6/07 - Ali Gomaa (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701863.html), grand mufti of Egypt on meaning of Jihad 7/07 - Sh. Ali Gomaa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.child-trafficking.info%2Fupload%2FFiles%2Ffatwa%2520eng. pdf) Fatwa Against Child Marriage - Sh. Ali Gomaa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fanswering_questions _from_american_muslims%2F) issues answers to questions from American Muslims. - Sh. Ali Gomaa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fnews%2Fw orld%2Farticles%2F2008%2F03%2F06%2Fegypts-grand-mufti-counters-the-tide-of-islamic-extremism) counters extremism[/url]

Hafeez, Umar bin Muhammad bin Salem bin (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Dean of Dar al Mustafa Institute, Hadramawt (Yemen) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Hammad, Dr. Nazih (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Hassun, Ahmad Badr al Din (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) General Mufti of the Syrian Arab Republic (Syria) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Hamada, Faruq (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Professor of Hadith Studies, Muhammad V University(Morocco) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Hamza, Mustafa bin (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Professor of Islamic Law, Muhammad I University,(Morocco) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Hijjawi, Saeed AbdalHafiz (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)General Mufti of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan(Jordan) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Hindi, Shaikh Yahya (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F)(U.S. ) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Human Development Foundation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fterrorism_call_to_j oin_the_movement_for_eradication_of_terrorism%2F) - Call to join the movement for the eradication of terrorism (U.S.) 9/02
Huwaydi, Fahmi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Huzami, Haji Muhammad Shafi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Renowned Islamic Scholar of Jakarta (Indonesia) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Anwar Ibrahim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fstatement_on_malays ian_church_bombings%2F) Statement on Malaysian Church Bombings 1/10
Indian Muslim Council of U.S. IMC (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/US_Muslim_group_condemns_Delhi_blasts/rssarticleshow/3481323.cms) condemns Delhi blasts 10/08
IMC-USA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fimc_usa_condemns_ja ipur_blasts_demands_transparent_investigation_of_t he_inc%2F) condemns Jaipur blasts; Demands transparent investigation of the incident 5/08
IMC-USA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fimc_usa_condemns_de struction_of_churches_in_orissa_india%2F) condemns destruction of churches in Orissa, India 12/07
Indian Muslim Intellectuals (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Findian_muslim_intel lectuals_condemn_pak_punjab_governors_killing%2F) Condemn Pak Punjab Governor’s Killing

Indian Muslim Leaders (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Findian_muslim_leade rs_condemn_talibans_jizya_on_sikhs_in_pakistan%2F) Condemn Taliban’s ‘Jizya’ On Sikhs in Pakistan 5/09

Indian Muslim Leaders (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Findian_muslim_leade rs_condemn_attacks_on_christian_properties_in_kash mir%2F) Condemn Attacks on Christian Properties in Kashmir 9/10
Indian Muslim scholars of the All India Muslim Majlis-e Mushawarat Condemn Taliban’s ‘Jizya’ On Sikhs in Pakistan ** (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Findian_muslim_leade rs_condemn_talibans_jizya_on_sikhs_in_pakistan)

International (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/muslim-scholars-rule-female-circumcision-unislamic/2006/11/24/1163871589618.html) group of scholars rules female circumcision (female genital mutilation FGM) un-Islamic 11/06
International Islamic Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/international_islamic_organizations_denounce_9_11_ attack/) Denounce 9/11 Attack
International Islamic Conference, Sri Lanka (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fenglish.peopledaily.com.c n%2F200212%2F12%2Feng20021212_108362.shtml) 12/02
International Union of Islamic Scholars (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_condemns_heino us_criminal_terrorist_act_against_egyptian_church) condemns attacks on Egyptian Coptic Christians 1/11
Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icna.org%2Fwtc_islahi .htm) 2001 “The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the barbarism perpetrated by a few people. Islam, which is a religion of peace and tolerance, condemns this act and sees this is as a wounding scar on the face of humanity. I appeal to Muslims to strongly condemn this act, express unity with the victims’ relatives, donate blood, money and do whatever it takes to help the affected people.”
Islam America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamamerica.org%2Far ticles.cfm%2Farticle_id%2F81%2F) - Overcoming religiously motivated violence
Islamic Circle of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (ICNA) - against 9/11 (U.S.) — Islamic Circle of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2005%26m%3DJuly%26x%3D20050721173921 xbtterrets0.2144586%26t%3Dlivefeeds%2Fwf-latest.html)Condemns London Bombings 7/05
Islamic Commission of Spain (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/11/madrid.anniversary/), Fatwa against bin Laden 3/05 - Islamic Commission of (Spain) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fspanish_fatwa_again st_terrorism%2F) Fatwa against terrorism 3/05
Islamic Media Foundation (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (IMF) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Islamic Medical Society of North America (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/american_muslim_doctors_denounce_uk_terror_plot/0014159) - against U.K. bomb plot
Islamic Information Center (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fislamic_information _center_condemns_fatal_attack_on_christian_charity _worke%2F) condemns fatal attack on Christian charity workers in Afghanistan 8/10
Islamic Society of North America, ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fagainst_terrorism_a nd_religious_extremism_muslim_position_and_respons ibilit%2F) (U.S.) Statement Against Terrorism and Religious Extremism 8/05 This 2 page flier is available as a PDF (http://www.isna.net/fileadmin/ATAEC/ATAEC.pdf) and is the best short statement available and should be printed out and widely shared. — Islamic Society of North America ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.isna.net%2Findex.php% 3Fid%3D35%26backPID%3D1%26tt_news%3D4)(U.S.) Terrorism is not in the name of Islam signed by 72 scholars and leaders 5/04 — ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fisna_rejects_all_ex pressions_of_racism_and_bigotry%2F) Rejects All Expressions of Racism and Bigotry 7/09 — ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theamericanmuslim.org %2Ftam.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmalaysia_allah_ and_god%2F0017793) Commends Malaysian Court Ruling that Affirms Religious Freedom of Christians (issue of use of word Allah) 1/10 — Islamic Society of North America (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/islamic_society_of_north_america_isna_condemns_uk_ bombings/0014205)(ISNA) Condemns U.K. Bombings — ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fisna_condemns_the_a nti_christian_riots_in_pakistan%2F) Condemns the Anti Christian Riots in Pakistan 8/09 — Islamic Society of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.isna.net%2Findex.php% 3Fid%3D35%26backPID%3D1%26tt_news%3D729) ISNA Joins Call for End to Torture 6/06 — ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fisna_condemns_plots _to_attack_synagogues_and_national_targets%2F) Condemns Plots to Attack Synagogues and National Targets 5/09 — Islamic Society of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2005%26m%3DJuly%26x%3D20050721173921 xbtterrets0.2144586%26t%3Dlivefeeds%2Fwf-latest.html) Condemns London Bombings 7/05 — ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdomestic_violence_r esource_collection%2F) Islamic response to domestic violence —ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fisna_strongly_conde mns_bhutto_assassination_offers_condolences_to_fam ilies_%2F) Strongly Condemns Bhutto Assassination: Offers Condolences to Families of Deceased 12/07 — Islamic Society of North America (http://www.isna.com/articles/Press-Releases/ISNA-STATEMENT-OF-POSITION-Who-we-are-and-what-we-believe.aspx) - statement “Who We Are and What We Believe” specifically rejects any terrorism including that carried out by Hamas and Hesbollah. 9/07 — Islamic Society of North America (http://www.isna.com/articles/News/ISNA-UNITES-WITH-CHRISTIANS-AGAINST-NUCLEAR-WEAPONS.aspx), ISNA UNITES WITH CHRISTIANS AGAINST NUCLEAR WEAPONS 11/07 — “The Islamic Society of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.religioustolerance.or g%2Fislfatwa4.htm) (ISNA) condemns in the strongest terms the recent acts of terrorism in Glasgow, London and Yemen. We reaffirm our long-standing, unqualified condemnation of all acts of terrorism and all acts of violence committed against the innocent, and our denunciation of religious extremism and particularly the use of Islam to justify terrorism in any of its forms. We sympathize with the victims of these senseless attacks and offer our heart-felt condolences to the families who have lost their dear ones.” 7/07 —The Islamic Society of North America ISNA (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_condemns_heino us_criminal_terrorist_act_against_egyptian_church) Condemns New Year’s Attacks in Egypt and Nigeria 1/11
The Islamic Supreme Council of Canada a Fatwa reminding Muslims that honour killings, domestic violence and misogyny are un-Islamic actions and crimes in Islam * (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffatwa)
Izzat, Hiba Raouf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Lecturer in College of Economics and Political Science, Cairo University (Egypt) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Jackson, Dr. Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Jamaat Ahl-e-Sunnah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.c om%2FWorld%2FPakistan%2FTop-Pak-clerics-declare-suicide-attacks-un-Islamic%2Farticleshow%2F4543693.cms) scholars (Pakistan) declared suicide attacks and beheadings as un-Islamic in a unanimous resolution. 5/09

Jumua, Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Grand Mufti of the Arab Republic of Egypt (Egypt) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Kachat, Larbi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Director of Dawah Mosque and Head of the Islamic Cultural Center, Paris (France) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Karamah, Zina, rape and Islamic Law (http://www.karamah.org/docs/Zina_article_Final.pdf): an Islamic legal analysis of the rape laws in Pakistan, A Position Paper by KARAMAH: Muslim Women Lawyers for Human Rights
Ayatollah Emami Kashani (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cair.com%2FPortals%2F 0%2Fpdf%2FCondemnation_of_London_Bombings.pdf) of Iran condemned the 2005 London bombings
Kashmiri, Anzar Shah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Head of Ulama of Deoband (India) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Khalid, Rashid, Maulana (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tribuneindia.com%2F20 06%2F20060315%2Fmain3.htm) Darul Ifta Firangai Mahal (Lucknow, India) attacking houses of worship & terrorism 3/06
Khamene’i, Ayatollah Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irna.com%2Fen%2Fhphot o%2F010916000000.ehp.shtml) supreme jurist ruler of (Iran) ** “Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons, including atomic bombs, long range missiles, biological or chemical weapons, passenger or war planes, carried out by any organization, country or individuals is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.” ** Islamic Republic News Agency, September 16, 2001,
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued the Fatwa that “the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons.” 8 (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fyes-memri-there-is-a-fatwa-from-khamenei-forbidding-nukes)
Khatami, Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.president.ir%2Fcronic news%2F1380%2F8008%2F800818%2F800818.htm%23b3) President (Iran) at U.N. against 9/11 attack 9/01 “[T]he September 11 terrorist blasts in America can only be the job of a group that have voluntarily severed their own ears and tongues, so that the only language with which they could communicate would be destroying and spreading death.”
Khatami, Muhammad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsmax.com%2Farchive s%2Fic%2F2006%2F9%2F11%2F100731.shtml) President Iran at Harvard Condemns bin Laden
Khayyat, Haytham (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (Syria) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Leaders of Chicago Area Mosques (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fabclocal.go.com%2Fwls%2Fs tory%3Fsection%3DNews%26id%3D3300786) (U.S.) Support FCNA Fatwa Against Terrorism 7/05
League of Arab States (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leagueofarabstates.or g%2FE_Perspectives_17_09_01.asp) against 9/11 attack 9/01
London Declaration for Global Peace & Resistance against Extremism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fpeace-for-humanity-rally-and-declaration-for-global-peace) signed by many scholars 9/11
Maghraoui, Dr. Mukhtar (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Imam Mohamed Majid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmuslimmatters.org%2F2011% 2F01%2F27%2Fzaid-shakir-mohamed-magid-on-curbing-violent-extremism%2F) on countering violent extremism in America. - Imam Majid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defendtheprophet.com% 2Fdeviant-theology-of-violent-extremists) The Deviant Theology of Violent Extremists
Majlis Ash-Shura of Metropolitan New York (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fstatement_on_combat ing_ethnic_and_religious_intolerance_and_defending _the_c%2F) issues Statement On Combating Ethnic and Religious Intolerance. 9/10
MARDIN CONFERENCE STATEMENT – Understanding Ibn Taymiyyah’s Fatwa (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmardin_conference%2 F) Mardin statement (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vancouversun.com%2Fne ws%2FFatwa%2Brules%2Bviolence%2Bscholars%2F2752379 %2Fstory.html%23ixzz0n4n571wN) in Turkey declared that the fatwa by 14th century scholar Ibn Taymiyya rules out militant violence and the medieval Muslim division of the world into a “house of Islam” and “house of unbelief” no longer applies. Osama bin Laden has quoted Ibn Taymiyya’s “Mardin fatwa” repeatedly in his calls for Muslims to overthrow the Saudi monarchy and wage jihad against the United States. Referring to that historical document, the weekend conference said: “Anyone who seeks support from this fatwa for killing Muslims or non-Muslims has erred in his interpretation. “It is not for a Muslim individual or a Muslim group to announce and declare war or engage in combative jihad ... on their own.”
Mustafa Mashhur (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsanews.mynet.net%2FMSANE WS%2F200109%2F20010917.15.html) General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood (Egypt) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders
Mehmed, Sultan II (http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/12/sultan-mehmed-iis-firman-on-the-bosnian-franciscans/), Firman on Bosnian Franciscans - issued in 1463
Ministry of Endowments and Islamic Affairs (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.magharebia.com%2Fcoco on%2Fawi%2Fxhtml1%2Fen_GB%2Ffeatures%2Fawi%2Ffeatu res%2F2008%2F07%2F20%2Ffeature-01) of Morocco sending Imams to Europe to counter extremists 7/08
Mirzayev, Sultan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freerepublic.com%2Ffo cus%2Ff+news%2F1457345%2Fposts) mufti of (Chechnya) declares Jihad on terrorism 8/05
Moscow Conference Against Terrorism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.net%2FEng lish%2FNews%2F2004-06%2F04%2Farticle10.shtml) (Russia) 250 leaders signed statement against terrorism 6/04
Muhammad, Dr. Akbar (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Sh. Abdul Hakim Murad (Britain) 2001 “Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Quranic ethos that the Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures.” Bin Laden’s Violence is a Heresy Against Islam (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themodernreligion.com %2Fterror%2Fwtc-heresy.html) - Murad, Shaikh Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fjews_christians_mus lims_from_a_conflicting_past_to_a_future_of_tolera nce%2F) - Islamic Spirituality: the Forgotten Revolution - Murad, Abdul Hakim (http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/muslims_speak_out/2007/07/abdal_hakim_murad.html) - What Islam really says about violence, human rights, and other religions - Murad, Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Frecapturing_islam_f rom_the_terrorists%2F) - Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists - Murad, Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_terrorists_e mbrace_a_very_secular_heresy%2F) - Muslim Terrorists Embrace a Very Secular Heresy - Murad, Abdal-Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) against 9/11 (Britain) - Murad, Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fbombing_without_moo nlight_the_origins_of_suicidal_terrorism_part_i%2F ) - Bombing Without Moonlight 6/05 - Murad, Sheikh Abdul Hakim (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamfortoday.com%2Fm urad04.htm) - Bin Laden’s Violence Is a Heresy Against Islam (Britain)
Muslim, Arab, & Interfaith Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslims-and-muslim-organizations-condemn-attacks-on-u.s.-embassies) Condemn Attacks on U.S. Embassies 9/12
Muslim Public Affairs Council MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_condemns_heino us_criminal_terrorist_act_against_egyptian_church) condemns heinous criminal terrorist act against Egyptian Church on New Years Day 1/11 — MPAC Mosque Guidelines to Fight Terrorism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fngcft%2Fmo sque-guidelines%2F) — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fpolicy-papers%2Fpost-911-terrorism-database.php) Post 9/11 terrorism database - A tracking of plots by Muslim and non-Muslim violent extremists against the United States — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fpolicy-papers%2Fcounterterrorism-policy-paper.php) Review of U.S. Counterterrorism policy with recommendations — MPAC National Grassroots Campaign to Fight Terrorism (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fngcft%2F) — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fpolicy-papers%2Fbuilding-bridges.php) Building Bridges to Strengthen America: Building an Effective Counterterrorism Enterprise between Muslim Americans and Law Enforcement.” — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_unequivocally_ condemns_seattle_murder%2F) Unequivocally Condemns Seattle Murder at Jewish Federation 7/06 — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_communities_ worldwide_need_to_condemn_shia_massacres%2F) calls on Muslim communities worldwide to condemn Shia massacres 2/10 — MPAC statement (http://www.mpac.org/article.php?id=501) on alledged Fort Dix Terror Plot 5/07 — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fkilling_of_ahmadis_ in_pakistan_a_shocking_crime_against_humanity%2F)s tatement: Killing of Ahmadis in Pakistan a Shocking Crime Against Humanity 5/10 — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac_condemns_michi gan_militia_plot_attacks_on_moscow_subway%2F) Condemns Michigan Militia Plot & Attacks on Moscow Subway 3/10 — MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpac.org%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fpolicy-papers%2Fno-compulsion-in-religion-a-faith-based-critique-of-the-defamation-of-religions-concept.php) issues position paper No Compulsion in Religion: A Faith-Based Critique of the ‘Defamation of Religions’ Concept, in support of free speech, and a critique of global blasphemy law 12/11
Muslim American Society (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/mas_freedom_welcomes_saudi_kings_pardon_of_qatif_g irl_but_reiterates_the_ne/) MAS Freedom Welcomes Saudi King’s Pardon of ‘Qatif Girl’ But Reiterates the Need for Change in Saudi Arabia 12/07 — Muslim American Society (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (MAS) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Muslim Arab Youth Association (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (MAYA) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Muslim Alliance of North America (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (MANA) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Muslim Brotherhood (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) an opposition Islamist group (Egypt) against 9/11 attack 9/01
Muslim Council of Britain (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2 Fuk_news%2F1554177.stm)condemns lunatic fringe 9/01 and [2 (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/statement_from_the_muslim_council_of_britain_on_re cent_terrorism/0014157)]
Muslim Council of Britain (http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/honour_killings.pdf) statement against honor killings 2000
Muslim Council of Britain (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060211/ai_n16062632) organizes rally against extremism 2/2006
Muslim Doctors and Dentists Assoc. of UK (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_doctors_and_dentists_assoc_of_uk_statement_ on_uk_bombings/0014158) - Statement on UK Bombings
Muslim Intellectual Forum of India (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslim_intellectual _forum_of_india_condemns_attack_on_taslima_nasreen %2F) Condemns Attack on Taslima Nasreen 8/07
MPAC Muslim Public Affairs Council (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2005%26m%3DJuly%26x%3D20050721173921 xbtterrets0.2144586%26t%3Dlivefeeds%2Fwf-latest.html) (U.S.) condemns London bombing 7/05
MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fkilling_of_ahmadis_ in_pakistan_a_shocking_crime_against_humanity) condemns violence against Ahmadi community in Pakistan 3/10
MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac-condemns-violence-against-shia-in-pakistan) Condemns Violence Against Shia in Pakistan 8/12
MPAC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmpac-supports-effort-to-combat-hatred-through-free-speech-releases-critique) Supports Effort to Combat Hatred Through Free Speech, Releases Critique of Global Blasphemy Law 12/11
Muslim scholars (http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/008824.php) condemn beheading of Nicholas Berg
Muslim Student Organization (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fusinfo.state.gov%2Fxarchi ves%2Fdisplay.html%3Fp%3Dwashfile-english%26y%3D2005%26m%3DJuly%26x%3D20050721173921 xbtterrets0.2144586%26t%3Dlivefeeds%2Fwf-latest.html) MSA (U.S.) Condemns London Bombings 7/05
Muslim Student Association (MSA), Islamic Association for Palestine (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (IAP) - against 9/11 (U.S.)]
Muslim Women’s League (http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/mwl.html) Position Paper on “Honor Killings” - Muslim Women’s League - against female genital mutilation (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/fgm.html) - against violence against women (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/violence.html) - condemning ‘honor’ killing in Pakistan (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/mpac__mwl_condemn_hk.htm) - condemning Kidnapping of Jill Carroll (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/terrorism/kidnapping_Carroll.htm) - condemning burning of churches in Nigeria (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/terrorism/burning_of_churches_in_nigeria.htm) - numerous other statements (http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/list.htm#violence)
Naples Interfaith Meeting (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/communique_by_muslim_scholars_from_the_naples_enco unter_for_a_world_without/0014912), Communiqué by Muslim Scholars from the Naples Encounter “For a World Without Violence” 2007
Nasr, Seyyed Hossein (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.al-islam.org%2Fal-serat%2FIslamAndViolence.htm) – Islam and the question of violence - Nasr, Seyyed Hossein (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcivilizational_dial ogue_and_the_islamic_world%2F) - Civilizational Dialogue and the Islamic World -
Nigerian Muslim scholars (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2525573.stm) denounce “fatwa” calling for journalists death 2002
Nizami, Mufti Rahman, Ameer (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsanews.mynet.net%2FMSANE WS%2F200109%2F20010917.15.html) Jamaat e Islami (Bangladesh) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders
Nour, Fazil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsanews.mynet.net%2FMSANE WS%2F200109%2F20010917.15.html) President, PAS Parti Islam Se (Malaysia) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oic+oci.org%2Fenglish %2Ffm%2FAll%2520Download%2Ffrmex9.htm) against 9/11 attack 10/01 — Organization of the Islamic Conference Summit OIC Conference (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailystar.com.lb%2Far ticle.asp%3Fedition_id%3D10%26categ_id%3D2%26artic le_id%3D20641) against 9/11 attack 12/01 — OIC (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamicity.com%2Farti cles%2FArticles.asp%3Fref%3DIC0611-3172) Conference Makkah Declaration on Iraq situation - houses of worship, sunni shia violence, 11/06
Pakistan (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1168265536796&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout), 40 scholars issue fatwa against honor killings 2006
Pakistan-American Congress (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcondemnation_of_bom b_blast_in_karachi_at_milad_e_nabi_gathering%2F) condemns bombing in Pakistan 4/06
Pan African Women’s Organization (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fokuskvinner.no%2FPag eFiles%2F5818%2FPAWA%2520PDF.pdf) fatwa against female genital mutilation 5/11
Peace for Humanity Rally and Declaration for Global Peace (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fpeace-for-humanity-rally-and-declaration-for-global-peace) attended by 12,000 Muslims and hundreds of scholars in London 9/11
Punjabi chief Mufti (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1820782.cms) issues fatwa against terrorism 7/2006
Qabbani, Muhammad Rashid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) General Mufti of Lebanon (Lebanon) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Qazi Hussain Ahmed (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsanews.mynet.net%2FMSANE WS%2F200109%2F20010917.15.html) Ameer, Jamaat e Islami (Pakistan) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders
Philippines - Muslims of Mindanao (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=12849&size=A) issue statement against those who threatened the bishop of Basilan 7/08
Qazwini, Shaikh Hassan (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Rabbani, Shaykh Faraz (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fqa.sunnipath.com%2Fissue_ view.asp%3FHD%3D1%26ID%3D4219%26CATE%3D124) on kidnapping and terrorism
Maulana Marghubur Rahman (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twocircles.net%2F2008 mar11%2Fdeobands_anti_terrorism_convention_some_re flections.html), Dar ul-Ulum Deoband madrasa (India) 2/2008 “We condemn all forms of terrorism ... and in this we make no distinction. Terrorism is completely wrong, no matter who engages in it, and no matter what religion he follows or community he belongs to.”
Rashid, Shaykh Ahmed Abdur Rashid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffundamentals_and_fu ndamentalism_a_parting_of_the_ways_in_islam%2F) - Fundamentals and Fundamentalism: A Parting of the Ways in Islam 9/02
Rauf, Imam Feisal Abdul (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fa_call_to_conscienc e_and_a_reminder_to_the_muslims%2F) (U.S.) - A Call to Conscience 2/06 - Rauf, Imam Feisal Abdul (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asmasociety.org%2F%2F perspectives%2Fletter.html) - Bridging the Chasm Between East and West - Rauf, Imam Feisal (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fspirituality_what_i s_the_contribution_of_religions_toward_peace%2F) What Is the Contribution of Religions Towards Peace?
Religions Denounce Terrorism Conference (http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/religionsdenounceterrorism.htm) 2003 Turkey
Sabri, Ikrimah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Mufti of Jerusalem (Palestine) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Dr. Sayed G. Safavi (Iran) 2001 “The targeting of innocent persons cannot be allowed. Islam is against any form of terrorism, whether it be carried out by an individual, a group or a state. ... For Muslims to kill civilians unconnected with any attack on them is a crime. The principal law of Islam is: don’t attack civilians. This includes civilians of any faith, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian. According to Islam, all people are the family of God. The target of religion is peace.”
Saudi religious scholars (http://www.saudiembassy.net/2004News/Press/PressDetail.asp?cYear=2004&cIndex=217) issue fatwa against terrorism 6/04
Saudi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.religioscope.com%2Fin fo%2Fdoc%2Fjihad%2F2002_scholars_definition.htm) scholars define what is Jihad and what is terrorism
Sayf, Ahmad Nur (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Director of Islamic Sciences & Research Institute (UAE) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Scholars Taskforce Against Terrorism (Indonesia) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atimes.com%2Fatimes%2 FSoutheast_Asia%2FGK24Ae01.html) religious scholars fatwa against terrorism and public education 11/05

Shah, Dr. Zulfiqar Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Shakir, Imam Zaid (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/islam_and_honor_killings/0015416) - Islam and Honor Killings 1/08 - Shakir, Imam Zaid (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/islam_and_honor_killings/0015416) - against honor killings 1/08 -Shakir, Imam Zaid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themodernreligion.com %2Fterror%2Fwtc-imamzaid.html) – On the terrorist attacks -
Shakir, Imam Zaid (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zaytuna.org%2Farticle Details.asp%3FarticleID%3D76) We Are All Collateral Damage - Zaik Shakir (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmuslimmatters.org%2F2011% 2F01%2F27%2Fzaid-shakir-mohamed-magid-on-curbing-violent-extremism%2F) on countering violent extremism in America.
Imam Hesham Shashaa, Munich, Germany speaks out (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2010%2F 05%2F16%2Fworld%2Feurope%2F16imam.html%3Fpagewante d%3D1) against radicals 5/10
Shia Personal Law Board (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fshia_personal_law_b oard_in_india_calls_for_anti_terror_campaign%2F) in India Calls for Anti-‘Terror’ Campaign, passes resolution condemning terrorism 11/05
Shleibak, Dr. Ahmad (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Shaltoot, Sh. Mahmood (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ummah.com%2Fforum%2Fa rchive%2Findex.php%2Ft+23351.html) (Saudi Arabia) former head of Al Azhar (Egypt) on permissibility of following Shia schools of law 12/02
Sheikh, Dr. Muhammad Adam (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Shinwari, Fazli Hadi (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fagonist.org%2Fstory%2F200 5%2F5%2F28%2F114447%2F810) Council of Islamic Leaders (Afghanistan) against kidnapping & harming foreigners 5/05
Siddiqi, Dr. Muzammil H (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05 - on jihad and terrorism (http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/muslims_speak_out/2007/07/muzzamil_siddiqi.html)7/07 - Siddiqi, Dr. Muzammil (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544856) on partitions between men and women in mosques 1/07 - Siddiqui, Dr. Muzammil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fjihad_its_true_mean ing_and_purpose%2F) - Jihad, Its True Meaning and Purpose (U.S. 9/02 - Siddiqui, Dr. Muzammil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icpj.net%2F2006%2F06% 2F16%2Fmuslim-statement-on-nuclear-disarmament%2Fprint%2F) Statement on Nuclear Disarmament 6/06 - Siddiqui, Muzammil (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crescentlife.com%2Fhe al%2520the%2520world%2Fhealing_our_broken-ness.htm) Healing Our Brokeness
Sultan, Dr. Salah (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Ffiqh_council_of_nor th_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism%2F) (U.S.) FCNA Fatwa against terrorism 7/05
Sunni Ittehad Council of Pakistan issued a fatwa condemning the Taliban shooting of Malala Yousufzai** (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmalala-yousufzai-shooting)
Sunni Muslim Groups in Iraq Condemn Kidnapping (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fobserver.guardian.co.uk%2 Finternational%2Fstory%2F0%2C6903%2C1657510%2C00.h tml)
Sunni Shia Dialogue to Save Lives - RESOLUTION (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/resolution_of_the_shia_sunni_dialogue_to_save_live s/) of the Shia-Sunni Dialogue To Save Lives
Shaikh M. Tahir ul-Qadri (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsmax.com%2Farchive s%2Farticles%2F2001%2F10%2F17%2F195606.shtml) head of the Awami Tehrik Party (Pakistan) against 9/11 attack 10/01“Bombing embassies or destroying non-military installations like the World Trade Center is no jihad. ... “[T]hose who launched the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks not only killed thousands of innocent people in the United States but also put the lives of millions of Muslims across the world at risk. ... Bin Laden is not a prophet that we should put thousands of lives at risk for.” - Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtontimes.com%2 Fnews%2F2010%2Fmar%2F03%2Fmuslim-leaders-edict-decries-terrorism%2F), 600 page fatwa against terrorism [2] (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsweek.washingtonpost.c om%2Fonfaith%2Fpanelists%2Fmuqtedar_khan%2F2010%2F 03%2Fa_fatwa_that_might_work_a_loud_voice_from_the _silent_majority.html), M. Tahir-Ul-Qadri (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsmax.com%2Farchive s%2Farticles%2F2001%2F10%2F17%2F195606.shtml) – condemns bin Laden (Pakistan) - condemns all terrorism [4] (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2 Fuk_news%2F8544531.stm) in a comprehensive 600 page fatwa dealing with every possible attempted justification. 90-page summary here (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.minhajuk.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2Ffatwa-88pages_final2.pdf) 2/10 —Al Qadiri, Muhammad Tahir (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F) Founder of Minhaj ul Quran International Organization (Pakistan) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Taskhiri, Muhammad Ali (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)Secretary General of the International Assembly for Understanding between the Islamic Sects (Iran) 2/06 Danish cartoons
Taisaruddin (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamonline.com%2Fcgi +bin%2Fnews_service%2Fworld_full_story.asp%3Fservi ce_id%3D2130) Mufti of Darul Ifta Majidia (Varanasi, India) attacking houses of worship & terrorism
Bashir-ud-din (http://newsblaze.com/story/20080227121136kash.nb/newsblaze/TOPSTORY/Top-Stories.htm), Grand Mufti of Kashmir has denounced killings in name of Islam. 2/2008
United Association for Studies and Research (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (UASR) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Universal Muslim Americans Association (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%7Ekurzman% 2Fterror.htm) (UMAA) - against 9/11 (U.S.)
Universal Muslim Association of America (UMAA) (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fcondemnation-of-massacre-of-shia-pilgrims-outside-quetta-pakistan) Condemnation of Massacre of Shi’a Pilgrims outside Quetta, Pakistan 9/11
U.S. Imams (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1294&theType=NR) Say Iraq Hostage-Takers Violate Islamic Beliefs 2004
U.S. Muslim scholars (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4775588) issue fatwa against terrorism FCNA 7/05
Usmani, Sh. (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.c om%2Farticleshow%2F1820782.cms)Grand Mufti, Dar ul Uloom (Punjab, India) terrorism 7/06
World Muslim Congress (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/american_muslims_condemn_the_london_plot/0014171) American Muslims Condemn the London Plot
The World Shia Forum condemned the attack by the Taliban on Malala Yousufzai [ul=http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/malala-yousufzai-shooting]**[/url]

World Muslim Congress (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fmuslims_condemn_the _demolition_of_hindu_temple_in_lahore%2F) condemns the demolition of Hindu Temple in Lahore 6/06
Yassin, Shaykh Ahmad (http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm) Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement HAMAS (Palestine) condemning 9/11 attack 9/01 signed by 46 scholars & leaders
Yilmaz, Mehmed Nuri (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diyanet.gov.tr%2Fduyu rular%2Fregaibing.htm) Directorate of Religious Afairs (Turkey) against 9/11 attack 9/01 “Any human being, regardless of his ethnic and religious origin, will never think of carrying out such a violent, evil attack. Whatever its purpose is, this action cannot be justified and tolerated.”
Hamza Yusuf (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww0.mercurycenter.com%2F local%2Fcenter%2Fisl0916.htm) “Religious zealots of any creed are defeated people who lash out in desperation, and they often do horrific things. And if these people [who committed murder on September 11] indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they’re obviously very sick people and I can’t even look at it in religious terms. It’s politics, tragic politics. There’s no Islamic justification for any of it. ... You can’t kill innocent people. There’s no Islamic declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam, a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent country. In Islam, the only wars that are permitted are between armies and they should engage on battlefields and engage nobly. The Prophet Muhammad said, ``Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,’’ and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, ``Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies.’’ The Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet, say that no one can punish with fire except the lord of fire. It’s prohibited to burn anyone in Islam as a punishment. No one can grant these attackers any legitimacy. It was evil.” 2001 - Yusuf, Hamza (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Ftheamericanmuslim.org%2Ft am.php%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2Fdeclaration_of_fatw a_by_world_islamic_scholars_about_danish_cartoons% 2F)(USA) 2/06 on Danish cartoons - denouncing holocaust denial (http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/hamza-yusuf-major-american-muslim-leader-says-holocaust-denial-undermines-islam/) - Shaykh Yusuf, Hamza (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamfortoday.com%2Fh amza01.htm) – A Time for Introspection - Yusuf, Shaykh Hamza (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/holocaust_denial_undermines_islam/0014346)- Holocaust Denial Undermines Islam - Yusuf, Shaykh Hamza (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zaytuna.org%2Ftragedy .html)- America’s Tragedy Yusuf, Shaykh Hamza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7IKCIYYJw) VIDEO on Jihad. He takes the story of Prophet Musa (Moses) as an example to explain jihad.

[aboutime]

jafar. That stuff below is BEYOND funny, COMING FROM YOU.

You insist you have nothing to do with propaganda...then you deposit a MELTING POT of pro-muslim links where your supply of Purely Partisan information (I call propaganda) can be found???

You really, really expect us to instantly believe ALL OF THE LINKS are Honest, and Factual?

Have you ever been to New York City?

If not. You missed the SALE of one of their many BRIDGES across the East River.

And THAT'S NOT PROPAGANDA.

[Drummond]

And just in case you didn't bother to click that lmgtfy link ...

Actually, I did.

I'd just finished looking at the link that said there was ONE Fatwa issued ... and that was the same one I'd found myself !! ... when I saw your massive 'everything but the kitchen sink' follow-up list.

Jafar, you'd claimed there were MANY 'fatwas'. I found ONE. Now, you've offered a list in which many alleged Muslims have complained, regretted, waxed lyrical, ALL of that ... BUT HOW MANY FROM THE LIST ARE YOUR ALLEGED 'FATWAS' .. ??

Jafar. In the aftermath both of '9/11' and '7/7', but naturally, Muslims such as yourself pulled out all the stops to distance themselves from terrorism. Imagine the worldwide reaction, IF THEY HAD ALL RESOLUTELY REFUSED TO. You'd see riots in the street, in city after city, mosques burned to the ground, etc etc.

So, how much of this is, purely and simply, RUNNING SCARED, DEFENSIVE STUFF ?

And, Jafar, review that list yourself, then tell me how many of those examples date from several YEARS after 9/11 ???

Telling, isn't it, Jafar ?

[jafar00]

Actually, I did.

I'd just finished looking at the link that said there was ONE Fatwa issued ... and that was the same one I'd found myself !! ... when I saw your massive 'everything but the kitchen sink' follow-up list.

Jafar, you'd claimed there were MANY 'fatwas'. I found ONE. Now, you've offered a list in which many alleged Muslims have complained, regretted, waxed lyrical, ALL of that ... BUT HOW MANY FROM THE LIST ARE YOUR ALLEGED 'FATWAS' .. ??

Jafar. In the aftermath both of '9/11' and '7/7', but naturally, Muslims such as yourself pulled out all the stops to distance themselves from terrorism. Imagine the worldwide reaction, IF THEY HAD ALL RESOLUTELY REFUSED TO. You'd see riots in the street, in city after city, mosques burned to the ground, etc etc.

So, how much of this is, purely and simply, RUNNING SCARED, DEFENSIVE STUFF ?

And, Jafar, review that list yourself, then tell me how many of those examples date from several YEARS after 9/11 ???

Telling, isn't it, Jafar ?

A lot of those links are fatwas. Perhaps not of the ilk of the 600 page extravaganza from Tahir-ul-Qadri but nonetheless, binding condemnations of terrorism and terrorist acts all backed up by scripture and from the highest levels of Islamic scholars and leaders.

Terrorism wasn't in the news before 9/11 that much but some of those links are from before 2001. I also recall back in 2000 when I accepted Islam, being warned about following extremes either side from the extremism of not praying to the extremism of the Salafi/Wahhabi/Khwariji groups. I was urged to take the middle and moderate path like the Prophet Mohamed (saw) taught us to do.

The sparse existence of links pre 2001 when the internet wasn't as it is today, doesn't mean there wasn't condemnation of extremism and terrorism from Muslims.

We are often scolded in Friday sermons when we want to join political groups to cause trouble. "Get in the Mosque and pray. Don't concern yourself with frivolous antics", we are often told.

Maybe if you sat in on the odd friday sermon, you might have a different idea about Muslims.

[Abbey Marie]

Even if every Muslim put down his weapons and his violent extremist rhetoric, they would still be perpetrating a War on Women.

[jafar00]

Even if every Muslim put down his weapons and violent extremist rhetoric, they would still be perpetrating a War on Women.

You mean like..

"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. " - Prophet Mohamed (saw) Final Sermon

Will you people never stop having little jabs at Islam?

If I was doing the same about Jews, you would be all over me for being anti semite, yet hatred and bigotry towards Muslims appears to be totally acceptable.

[Abbey Marie]

You mean like..

"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. " - Prophet Mohamed (saw) Final Sermon

Will you people never stop having little jabs at Islam?

If I was doing the same about Jews, you would be all over me for being anti semite, yet hatred and bigotry towards Muslims appears to be totally acceptable.

I won't post pictures; we've all seen them, and frankly they make me ill. But I mean like women buried to their heads and stoned. Women not allowed to vote, or drive, or be educated. Women having to wear Burqas and walk around like shadows. Women not allowed to worship alongside men. You know the list goes on and on.

[jafar00]

I won't post pictures; we've all seen them, and frankly they make me ill. But I mean like women buried to their heads and stoned.

Only in places where criminals or evil dictators are in charge



Women not allowed to vote, or drive, or be educated. Women having to wear Burqas and walk around like shadows.

Show me where in Islamic teachings those things are required. Islam was the first to give women a vote over 1400 years ago. Nowhere in Islam does it prevent women from driving. That is in Saudi Arabia only. And Burqas? Also no concept of it in Islam or you would see them other places apart from Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan.


Women not allowed to worship alongside men. You know the list goes on and on.

Women pray with men in Mecca. The gender segregation in Mosques is due to the fact that the purpose of going there is worship, not not for dating. Anyway, how can a man concentrate on his prayer if an attractive, shapely women is bent in prayer in front of him? I guarantee you that even the most controlled of men would be distracted.

[jimnyc]

You mean like..

"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. " - Prophet Mohamed (saw) Final Sermon

Will you people never stop having little jabs at Islam?

If I was doing the same about Jews, you would be all over me for being anti semite, yet hatred and bigotry towards Muslims appears to be totally acceptable.


Show me where in Islamic teachings

Jafar, this is where the separation happens every single time. You'll state it's not in Islam, as it's not anywhere in scripture, or post scripture like above. But none of that changes what happens every single day in the Muslim world. Look at it another way then - not as a little jab at Islam - but rather at the endless amount of people that call themselves Muslims, who are forever and continually disregarding the scripture then. As the stonings, discrimination and other subjugation of women are happening forever and continually.

Sorry, but a verse doesn't stop the reality from happening everyday.

[stevecanuck]

Jafar, give us links that show an international coalition of Muslim nations that are putting together an army to go fight terrorists in order to protect the good name of Islam. Then we'll be impressed.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Only in places where criminals or evil dictators are in charge




Show me where in Islamic teachings those things are required. Islam was the first to give women a vote over 1400 years ago. Nowhere in Islam does it prevent women from driving. That is in Saudi Arabia only. And Burqas? Also no concept of it in Islam or you would see them other places apart from Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan.



Women pray with men in Mecca. The gender segregation in Mosques is due to the fact that the purpose of going there is worship, not not for dating. Anyway, how can a man concentrate on his prayer if an attractive, shapely women is bent in prayer in front of him? I guarantee you that even the most controlled of men would be distracted.

And the slave-woman- voted exactly as she was told..

[Gaffer]

You can quote scriptures all day, you can use words of condemnation all day, you can issue fatwas all day. It all means nothing without action. We see the so called radicals taking action at every opportunity, we do not see moderate or peaceful muslims taking any action other than condemnation, and that's carefully worded.

ISIS is a brotherhood backed army of pathological killers. They intend to establish the caliphate to include syria and iraq and other areas after they consolidate. This is what the brotherhood was establish for back in the 1920's. The reestablishment of the ottoman empire. They can't conquer the world without first getting their empire back. It means taking down all the current govt's in the middle east. No kingdoms and no democracy. The biggest stepping stone is iran and the shia.

We have a do nothing, imbecilic, criminal excuse for a president who will do nothing to curtail this empire building and they know it. It's the perfect opportunity. Just as putin has seen the same opportunity to reestablish the old soviet union. China sees an opportunity to gain more natural resources by threatening their neighbors. At the same time illegals are being allowed into this country to boost the democrat base for the coming elections. After all it's for the children.

So jafar, do you support the establishment of a new ottoman empire. It has nothing to do with scripture or fatwas or any other wordy documents. It's about control and power which is the true teaching of islam.

[Abbey Marie]

Only in places where criminals or evil dictators are in charge




Show me where in Islamic teachings those things are required. Islam was the first to give women a vote over 1400 years ago. Nowhere in Islam does it prevent women from driving. That is in Saudi Arabia only. And Burqas? Also no concept of it in Islam or you would see them other places apart from Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan.



Women pray with men in Mecca. The gender segregation in Mosques is due to the fact that the purpose of going there is worship, not not for dating. Anyway, how can a man concentrate on his prayer if an attractive, shapely women is bent in prayer in front of him? I guarantee you that even the most controlled of men would be distracted.

Jafar, I was hoping you would reply to my post suggesting that the "pure Islamists" start a new sect of Islam that does not allow these radical perverters of your faith to be members. You know, since they are not true Muslims and all. Any response?

[red state]

Yes, it concerned the Battle of Uhud, and yes I knew that. So what? Every single verse in the Qur'an refers to something that happened at least 1400 years ago. So, by your logic the entire Qur'an is out of context? Time to throw yours away I guess.

The Qur'an, according to itself, is presented as a series of commands and parables so that Man may take admonition. That means you're supposed to read it and take lessons from it, and apply those lessons to the time in which you live.



You are such a transparent, lying hack.



Ok, I don't know what you want. The verse I gave you is NOT contrived. It's in the qur'an. Deal with it. As for mis-interpertation, I use an Islamic web site for my interpretations specifically so people like you won't have a leg to stand on. See for yourself: http://islaam.net (http://islaam.net/)

Don't know how long you've been a member but you, sir, are SPOT ON at every level and most of you comments I've read. It is the thin-skinned, yellow-backed liberals and so-called conservatives who have given these radicals the encouragement and (as seen from our dear leader) weapons, money and full cooperation to over-throw government after government.

It is time to stop the pussy-footin' around (as Bush Jr did when he started that baloney consisting of: IT'S NOT THE muSLUMS....IT'S THE RADICALS WITH THE muSLUM CULT. I call it like I see it and it is certainly good to see that a few still do the same.

They see such comments about their "good religion" over ran by a few bad men as WEAKNESS with little to no oppisition to the evils that their cult represents and inflicts on others who, for the most part, are practicing 'good religion'. We don't see REAL or good muSLUMs stand up and make a significant change to the overwhelming threat from their own because they are, for the most part, all rowing within the same boat. If they were sickened as the rest of the world is sickened, they'd jump boat and start rowing with the rest of us or throw the "few" bad muSLUMs from their boat. Don't hold your breath expecting a change in iSLUM or the liberal/pretend conservatives. They are all my enemy as far as I'm concerned and I respect them as such.

By the way....welcome to the board, stevecanuck. Better late than never, says I.

[Drummond]

Perhaps Jafar - albeit extremely belatedly ! - can explain how it's been that so many Muslims across the world have 'perverted' Islam. To become terrorists. To commit honour killings. To cracking down on women being educated. To having death sentences againsy apostacy. Etc. Etc. Etc.

SO MANY, according to Jafar, have strayed in a major way from what he tells us Islam is all about.

WHY so many ? How did it all come about ?

This, Jafar, is why it's so very hard to accept what you say. So MANY in SO MANY AREAS in the world have done this so-called 'straying'.

It isn't credible, Jafar. So .. isn't it high time you admitted the truth ?

[red state]

Drummond, my friend, the answer is quite simple really....jafar, may very well be the ONLY 'real' muSLUM out there but even he can't bring himself to talk negatively against the overwhelming injustice as well as inhumane acts of his cult that derived from the moon god of long ago that is now the poorly attempted copy-cat, twisted version of the religion Judaism.

It is also elementary to notice that most muSLUMs, even those that seek refuge within another nation from their sadistic nation, strive to bring and live by their own laws and standards while forcing others to cater to them and even bind said safe-haven nation to suffer from the laws, culture and conduct of this cult known as iSLUM.

I truly believe that the REAL muSLUMS are those backward, hate-filled sand fleas and the peaceable ones are truly not muSLUM at all (for they do not follow the doctrine of this evil cult).

Night has long fallen on this moon god cult and it should also fall on this poor adaptation or twisted version of Judaism.

[jafar00]

Jafar, this is where the separation happens every single time. You'll state it's not in Islam, as it's not anywhere in scripture, or post scripture like above. But none of that changes what happens every single day in the Muslim world. Look at it another way then - not as a little jab at Islam - but rather at the endless amount of people that call themselves Muslims, who are forever and continually disregarding the scripture then. As the stonings, discrimination and other subjugation of women are happening forever and continually.

Sorry, but a verse doesn't stop the reality from happening everyday.

If it's not in Islam, not supported in Islam, and condemned by Islam, WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ISLAM?!? There is no logic to your argument.


Jafar, give us links that show an international coalition of Muslim nations that are putting together an army to go fight terrorists in order to protect the good name of Islam. Then we'll be impressed.

Individual countries are doing what they can with police and army. Who would pay for this coalition anyway?


Jafar, I was hoping you would reply to my post suggesting that the "pure Islamists" start a new sect of Islam that does not allow these radical perverters of your faith to be members. You know, since they are not true Muslims and all. Any response?

I'm still unsure of what an "Islamist" is. In the press at least it appears to be a way of describing terrorists without saying the "t" word.


Perhaps Jafar - albeit extremely belatedly ! - can explain how it's been that so many Muslims across the world have 'perverted' Islam. To become terrorists. To commit honour killings. To cracking down on women being educated. To having death sentences againsy apostacy. Etc. Etc. Etc.

SO MANY, according to Jafar, have strayed in a major way from what he tells us Islam is all about.

WHY so many ? How did it all come about ?

This, Jafar, is why it's so very hard to accept what you say. So MANY in SO MANY AREAS in the world have done this so-called 'straying'.

It isn't credible, Jafar. So .. isn't it high time you admitted the truth ?

So many? Show me a warzone or area of political instability that is free of nasty stuff happening. You don't have to be a Muslim to suffer under those circumstances.

[aboutime]

If it's not in Islam, not supported in Islam, and condemned by Islam, WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ISLAM?!? There is no logic to your argument.



Individual countries are doing what they can with police and army. Who would pay for this coalition anyway?



I'm still unsure of what an "Islamist" is. In the press at least it appears to be a way of describing terrorists without saying the "t" word.



So many? Show me a warzone or area of political instability that is free of nasty stuff happening. You don't have to be a Muslim to suffer under those circumstances.


jafar. Despite our knowing how YOU...as a Muslim feel so convinced in your defenses, hidden in your endless propaganda. I personally also understand, and know. Because of who you are, and who you claim to be. You live under a veil of constant fear of sorts.
Like the members of CAIR here in America. You must be constantly aware of, and beware of being exacting in your use of words. As to not disclose any possible hostilities toward anyone who calls themselves Muslim, or Islamic in any way, shape, or form.
FEAR is what drives HATRED around the WORLD.
People from all corners of the Earth are forced to live with FEAR from those LIKE THE PRESENT "ISIS" murder groups trying to take over Iraq.
I know you must deny everything that sounds negative about Muslims, or Islam, lest you become one of the victims of such fears.
You can call me crazy, or deny everything I have said.
But please...do not assume ALL OF US who are not YOU...have no intelligence beyond your propaganda machine that is FAILING.

[jimnyc]

If it's not in Islam, not supported in Islam, and condemned by Islam, WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ISLAM?!? There is no logic to your argument.

I don't blame Islam, I blame the endless followers of Islam that pervert the religion and use it to kill, maim, discriminate & subjugate. It's YOU who should be even angrier that these people do so in the name of Islam, instead of solely trying to clear Islam of blame and turning a blind eye to the never ending actions of people who coincidentally happen to be Muslims. Or if you prefer, people who just happen to be in Islamic ruled nations.

Also, blaming Islam is NOT stating that the Quran is wrong, or that scriptures directly commanded ones actions. But Islam is also the body of Muslim people, the civilization, and the countries where Islam is the dominant religion.

I don't see much logic in denying atrocities that so many commit in the name of Islam. Does this somehow absolve the Islamic communities where these things happen of responsibility? When they do something good - they are Islam or Muslims, from the day they are born. We are told that Islam is a way of life. But the second someone does something wrong - no longer Islam, no longer a Muslim. But the people still suffer from the atrocities.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

By your logic, I and a billion and a half or so of my fellow Muslims must be bad Muslims, and the few that are doing bad things are perfect Muslims?

No, not by my logic, rather by the dictates of Mohammad and the Holy Quran...
I am not sure what you are Jafar, maybe just a gullible believer that believes the hype you post here. I use logic and facts sourced in my posts about Islam and it's commanded and sanctioned violence..--Tyr

[Drummond]

So many? Show me a warzone or area of political instability that is free of nasty stuff happening. You don't have to be a Muslim to suffer under those circumstances.

I regard your reply as diversionary. You have basically ignored the descriptions of what - if we believe you ! - count as perversions of what Islam should offer mankind. You also ignore how widespread all of this is.

You talk of political instability. This may, but doesn't HAVE to be, any contributing factor. The UK is politically stable (certainly compared to the Middle East, anyway !) .. yet we have cases of honour killings. Then again, we may not suffer many acts of Islamic terrorism, but we have had them !! 7/7 is a good example, of course.

Arranged marriages ... Sharia Councils decreeing judgments heavily weighted against women in marriages as an inbuilt bias ... the UK certainly has its share of these as well, as even the politically correct BBC has shown us is true. Yet if we believe YOU, then Islam should be treating women decently.

And yet .........

These things I've discussed, or raised as points .. aren't they far and away characteristic of ISLAMIC CONDUCT, SPECIFIC TO MUSLIMS ?

No, Jafar. Islam certainly seems to be the root cause of all of this.

I'd still like you to explain its prevalence .. IF, as you'd argue, what all this does is to 'pervert' Islam. In the UK, as in so many parts of the world .....

[Abbey Marie]

...

I'm still unsure of what an "Islamist" is. In the press at least it appears to be a way of describing terrorists without saying the "t" word.

...


Use whatever term you prefer. Just please answer. I truly think it could be the solution to what you seem to feel is really more of an image problem; a misperception if you will.

[aboutime]

Use whatever term you prefer. Just please answer. I truly think it could be the solution to what you seem to feel is really more of an image problem; a misperception if you will.


Abbey. Just another tactic of distraction from jafar. Whenever someone is losing an argument in any way. The easiest, proven way to deflect, and change the subject becomes...pointing toward others, or other actions, using blame, and making excuses to cover up their inability to DISPROVE the Truth.

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey. Just another tactic of distraction from jafar. Whenever someone is losing an argument in any way. The easiest, proven way to deflect, and change the subject becomes...pointing toward others, or other actions, using blame, and making excuses to cover up their inability to DISPROVE the Truth.

AT, I honestly do not like to call anyone out to respond. I really never do it. This one time I felt it was important, because so much of the board swirls around this very topic. People telling Jafar Islam is violent, etc., and Jafar replying "that isn't really Isam". Why not a new, pure, non-violent, non-women-Christian-Jew-hating sect?

[aboutime]

AT, I honestly do not like to call anyone out to respond. I really never do it. This one time I felt it was important, because so much of the board swirls around this very topic. People telling Jafar Islam is violent, etc., and Jafar replying "that isn't really Isam". Why not a new, pure, non-violent, non-women-Christian-Jew-hating sect?


Abbey. I understand what, and why you feel that way. But. Personally. This forum seems to be the one, and only way any of us have to voice our opinions as LOUDLY as we can. Knowing our voices generally fall on deaf ears, and forever go unnoticed by those who claim to be our leaders in Washington.
Staying quiet, just rolling over, and never finding any reason to fight back is EXACTLY what our enemies HOPE we UN-EDUCATED, UN-CARING people will do...putting our tails between our legs, and running scared into the night.

I personally have too much of my life Invested in this nation to just roll over, and play dead.
We at least must feel a need to DEFEND what little we have left of our dignity that others seem so happy to steal, or take away through fear, and silence.
That's not me. And I'm much too vocal to pretend we have other names for HATRED.

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey. I understand what, and why you feel that way. But. Personally. This forum seems to be the one, and only way any of us have to voice our opinions as LOUDLY as we can. Knowing our voices generally fall on deaf ears, and forever go unnoticed by those who claim to be our leaders in Washington.
Staying quiet, just rolling over, and never finding any reason to fight back is EXACTLY what our enemies HOPE we UN-EDUCATED, UN-CARING people will do...putting our tails between our legs, and running scared into the night.

I personally have too much of my life Invested in this nation to just roll over, and play dead.
We at least must feel a need to DEFEND what little we have left of our dignity that others seem so happy to steal, or take away through fear, and silence.
That's not me. And I'm much too vocal to pretend we have other names for HATRED.

I did not mean to imply that I thought there was anything wrong with those posts. Even if I disagreed (and I do not), they are valid as any other posts here. I just wanted to explain why I was asking again for a reply to my idea.

[jafar00]

No, Jafar. Islam certainly seems to be the root cause of all of this.


Prove it.


AT, I honestly do not like to call anyone out to respond. I really never do it. This one time I felt it was important, because so much of the board swirls around this very topic. People telling Jafar Islam is violent, etc., and Jafar replying "that isn't really Isam". Why not a new, pure, non-violent, non-women-Christian-Jew-hating sect?

Peace is the Muslim way. Was say "Peace be upon you" daily. When you are friends with Muslims, you have a great friendship.

If we hated women, why do so many western women convert to Islam every day?
If we hated Christians, it would be somewhere in our doctrine to do so. That is absent.
If we hated Jews, why did Jews flock to Muslim countries to live before the ill advised creation of apartheid Israel?

[aboutime]

Prove it.



Peace is the Muslim way. Was say "Peace be upon you" daily. When you are friends with Muslims, you have a great friendship.

If we hated women, why do so many western women convert to Islam every day?
If we hated Christians, it would be somewhere in our doctrine to do so. That is absent.
If we hated Jews, why did Jews flock to Muslim countries to live before the ill advised creation of apartheid Israel?


jafar. How long, and how many times must you be reminded that ANSWERING a question with MORE QUESTIONS is nothing but an American Liberal trick of Avoiding being responsible to answer questions honestly?

Your propaganda tricks of asking more questions, rather than providing documented proof as answers is almost comical.
Comical because you obviously still believe...asking those loaded questions above will convince us of something only you are sure of. Which is False information.

[Abbey Marie]

Prove it.



Peace is the Muslim way. Was say "Peace be upon you" daily. When you are friends with Muslims, you have a great friendship.

If we hated women, why do so many western women convert to Islam every day?
If we hated Christians, it would be somewhere in our doctrine to do so. That is absent.
If we hated Jews, why did Jews flock to Muslim countries to live before the ill advised creation of apartheid Israel?

AT is right, you are answering a question with questions. I'll try one last time.

Have you heard about our football team- the Washington Redskins- having to change their name because it might be considered offensive to some native Americans? While I don't agree with that particular situation, sometimes when you have an image problem, you need to change things up. So that people can see the good behind the image problem. And this is just a perceived cultural offense- not the murdering of thousands upon thousands of innocents in the name of your religion. If these crazy people are totally misinterpreting your religious texts, why not start a new sect? Where people are free to be non-Muslim, Jews are not hated, and women are free to act as they wish. Keep in mind, you are the one who says our perceptions about Islam are way off.

As for your contention that "so many Western women convert to Islam every day", honestly? All I see on the East Coast are sullen, angry-looking black women in head coverings who are most likely "converting" at the behest of their imprisoned boyfriends/husbands. It seems more like another form of rebellion than anything else. You do know that black men in prison account for a good bit of conversions to Islam, right? I also think that to some extent black women like an excuse to cover their hair (which they appear to loathe judging by all the wigs and extensions). It sounds bizarre, but hair is really a big deal to all women. Seriously, I rarely see any other race of women in that garb.

[fj1200]

AT is right, you are answering a question with questions. I'll try one last time.

Nobody seems to like it when he answers with statements... :dunno:

[Drummond]

Prove it.

You're joking, surely, Jafar ?

How many links do you think I could find of terrorists claiming they were committing their acts of savagery either to further an Islamic goal, or, just done in the service of Islam's Allah ??

And what about the very high percentage of such terrorism being attributed to Islam ? How come the percentage of the total IS so very high ??

... By the way, Jafar, how do you like my answering your posts with questions ?

[Jeff]

A 12 minute video showing how out of control things really are.



<script type="text/javascript" src="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=3634561905001&w=466&h=263"></script><iframe src="//video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=3634561905001&loc=debatepolicy.com" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" height="263" width="466"></iframe><noscript>Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com (http://video.foxnews.com)</noscript>


http://video.foxnews.com/v/3634561905001/hannity-investigation-radical-muslims-on-the-march/#sp=show-clips

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You're joking, surely, Jafar ?

How many links do you think I could find of terrorists claiming they were committing their acts of savagery either to further an Islamic goal, or, just done in the service of Islam's Allah ??

And what about the very high percentage of such terrorism being attributed to Islam ? How come the percentage of the total IS so very high ??

... By the way, Jafar, how do you like my answering your posts with questions ?

Answering with questions is an old dem/lib/socialist trick.
For it is not answering at all. It is interrogating the person that asked questions to either make a point, better understand the previous reply or else to divert away from truth that can not be answered without admitting failure.
Way back in the 70's I saw and discussed this tactic they use and use so well. It is not just a tactic used by politicians, it goes back to those having a mental aversion to ever admitting truth or their mistakes.
It is a way or pretending to answer and hope not to get called on not answering the opponents questions when the opponent has already answered theirs.
It is a combo of lying, cheating and diverting..
Right wingers answer and those answers are targets to be attacked.
However they reply with a question which then puts the recipient right back into answering !
A clever tactic, that calls for demanding one's own replies/questions be answered first before continuing.
The leftist/lib/dem scum know this all by their black hearts.
Right wingers are too honest and too damn polite to damn often..
The scum do this in televised debates and get by with it there as well. Of course it is a deceitful and cowardly tactic used by that type of people who then sit back and arrogantly muse on their brilliance in outwitting the decent and honest debater.

The remedy is to adamantly demand they answer before you answer their renewed interrogations..
What you then get is most often they either curse you or run away!!!!
Rarely ever will they then answer as you requested. Even the rare times they do they answer a totally different question than the one you had just asked!!!
These type people are actually either total deceivers, mental defectives, morons or dumbass bots IMHO.. --Tyr

[Drummond]

Prove it.

Less answering with questions, this time, Jafar.

So try this out, instead --

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663447/AllEyesOnIsis-Savvy-Jihadis-set-storm-Twitter-ISIS-propaganda-Q-A-10-30am-morning-Obama-prepares-air-strike-Iraq.html


'We love you ISIS': From USA to Rome to Australia - disturbing notes from EVERY continent show support for Islamist Jihadis terrorising Iraq after group's Twitter charm offensive

Members of the Sunni militant group vow to 'spread the truth' in storm that cannot be moderated or blocked

Using specific hash tag, they will answer questions, lambast allegations, and promote the extremist group's actions

Last night, President Barack Obama announced plans to unleash air strikes on militants and strongholds

ISIS fighters man checkpoints around refinery despite claims by Iraqi troops they were in 'complete control' of plant

They took chemical weapons facility built by Saddam Hussein, one of former leader's advisers is 'key member' of ISIS

Zuhair al-Nahar claims the ISIS insurgency gripping the country is 'a catastrophe of unprecedented scale'

PM Nouri al-Maliki facing growing pressure to resign over claims he has alienated Iraq's Sunni minority

Peace Brigades held to protect shrines in holy Shiite city of Najaf following calls from cleric Muqtatda al-Sadr

I suggest to you, Jafar, that they are doing all this as followers of Islam ....


Twitter users across the world have pledged their allegiance to ISIS in slew of disturbing posts to the extremist group.

The Jihadis launched a blitzkrieg hit on the site at 10.30am, vowing to 'spread the truth' behind their brutal attacks that even Al Qaeda have condemned.

Using the hash tag #AllEyesOnIsis, extremist fighters flooded the social media site with propaganda, luring vulnerable people to join them in Iraq.

And within minutes, their stunt - which Twitter is powerless to block or moderate - was met with chilling messages of support from countries all over the globe - from Rome to Australia, Switzerland to America, Kenya to Nepal.

It comes just hours after President Barack Obama announced plans to unleash air strikes on Iraq as world leaders warn of 'a catastrophe of unprecedented scale'.

One person from Kosovo drew love hearts around their message, gushing 'we all love you ISIS'.

In Switzerland, a Twitter user also shared a heart-shaped ISIS logo to show their support.

Across the globe, in Australia, a hand-written poster was photographed pledging allegiance.

And in South Africa, somebody tweeted a photo of pink cupcakes bearing ISIS flags.

The users behind the storm declared everything will be translated into English, sparking fears that British internet users will be the targets of the storm.

Laura Higgins, helpline manager of the UK Safer Internet Centre, said: 'It is dangerous, there will be risky content out there that will probably be targeting young people of school age.

'We have seen this before - extremists like the BNP have used the internet to publicise themselves and encourage vulnerable people.

'It is not up to young people to protect themselves from extremism online. Schools and parents have to be quite savvy.

'They need to be monitoring what sites are being accessed and what is on those sites, checking children's behaviour, and talking to them about dangers.

'Of course, the Government has its own specialist teams that will be monitoring this kind of thing and working to block dangerous content.

'With so many sites based on freedom of speech, you cannot just put a blanket ban on content.

'So really we just need everyone working together to protect vulnerable people where possible.'

Twitter refused to comment when approached by Mail Online.

Nothing ELSE but a drive to fight for Islam can be uniting and galvanising so many people, from so many corners of the world, into expressing such support. Nothing ELSE but Islam unites them. This isn't just a handful of people from one corner of the world, Jafar.


YOU ARE INVITED TO SHOW US JUST HOW THIS ALL PROVES ISLAM TO BE 'A RELIGION OF PEACE'


A little present from the ol' homeland, Jafar ....


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6134&stc=1

[jimnyc]

A 12 minute video showing how out of control things really are.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3634561905001/hannity-investigation-radical-muslims-on-the-march/#sp=show-clips

Anyone that hasn't watched the video in this link, I implore you to do so. It's a great discussion and definitely speaks volumes about the radical side of Islam. The liberals may not like it, as Hannity allows even liberals and a Muslim bloke on his show for the discussion. Can't be letting everyone have their say!!

[jafar00]

AT is right, you are answering a question with questions. I'll try one last time.

Have you heard about our football team- the Washington Redskins- having to change their name because it might be considered offensive to some native Americans? While I don't agree with that particular situation, sometimes when you have an image problem, you need to change things up. So that people can see the good behind the image problem. And this is just a perceived cultural offense- not the murdering of thousands upon thousands of innocents in the name of your religion. If these crazy people are totally misinterpreting your religious texts, why not start a new sect? Where people are free to be non-Muslim, Jews are not hated, and women are free to act as they wish. Keep in mind, you are the one who says our perceptions about Islam are way off.

Did the native Americans actually complain? Or was the change made because of some well meaning blue rinse PC advocate? If there really were complaints, the team was right to consider it as a gesture of good will. If not, it was an unnecessary exercise.


As for your contention that "so many Western women convert to Islam every day", honestly? All I see on the East Coast are sullen, angry-looking black women in head coverings who are most likely "converting" at the behest of their imprisoned boyfriends/husbands. It seems more like another form of rebellion than anything else.

Did you ever ask any of them 1) If they actually are angry, and 2) Why they cover their bodies?

I see plenty of angry and miserable looking white Christian and Atheist (I assume) people every day too.


You do know that black men in prison account for a good bit of conversions to Islam, right? I also think that to some extent black women like an excuse to cover their hair (which they appear to loathe judging by all the wigs and extensions). It sounds bizarre, but hair is really a big deal to all women. Seriously, I rarely see any other race of women in that garb.

I fail to see how the colour of someone's skin has any bearing on their faith.


You're joking, surely, Jafar ?

How many links do you think I could find of terrorists claiming they were committing their acts of savagery either to further an Islamic goal, or, just done in the service of Islam's Allah ??

Catholic priests abused young boys believing they were doing good Christian work. That doesn't mean Christianity supports it. There is no scripture to support child abuse in Christianity as far as I know.

Same with Islam, there is nothing in Islam to support terrorism so I don't know why you choose to act so gullible and ignorant as to believe it when a terrorist kills someone and tells you it is good Islamic work without providing any proofs.

Why are you so quick to take the word of a terrorist and support his actions by giving him excuses?

I ask for proof that Islam supports terrorism, not examples of terrorists doing stuff that Islam condemns as proof.

[Jeff]

Did the native Americans actually complain? Or was the change made because of some well meaning blue rinse PC advocate? If there really were complaints, the team was right to consider it as a gesture of good will. If not, it was an unnecessary exercise.



Did you ever ask any of them 1) If they actually are angry, and 2) Why they cover their bodies?

I see plenty of angry and miserable looking white Christian and Atheist (I assume) people every day too.



I fail to see how the colour of someone's skin has any bearing on their faith.



Catholic priests abused young boys believing they were doing good Christian work. That doesn't mean Christianity supports it. There is no scripture to support child abuse in Christianity as far as I know.

Same with Islam, there is nothing in Islam to support terrorism so I don't know why you choose to act so gullible and ignorant as to believe it when a terrorist kills someone and tells you it is good Islamic work without providing any proofs.

Why are you so quick to take the word of a terrorist and support his actions by giving him excuses?

I ask for proof that Islam supports terrorism, not examples of terrorists doing stuff that Islam condemns as proof.

That is a out and out lie, Priest never raped a young boy in the name of the bible, yes some did wrong but I have never seen a one say they did it in the name of God ( the bible, Christianity ) they where perverts and scum just like anyone else that does such a disgusting thing ! I understand your play on words but nobody is buying that trash jafar, not being one of the priest I can only assume but I am sure while doing there nasty thing they knew it was wrong. The funny part is Catholics ( all Christians for that matter ) never made excuses for them, we knew it was wrong period , no one ever said well look at such and such a country they did us wrong nope we all knew it was wrong. Now did they get punished the way I ( most ) would like to of seen no, but no one said it was OK.

[stevecanuck]

Less answering with questions, this time, Jafar.

So try this out, instead --

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663447/AllEyesOnIsis-Savvy-Jihadis-set-storm-Twitter-ISIS-propaganda-Q-A-10-30am-morning-Obama-prepares-air-strike-Iraq.html



I suggest to you, Jafar, that they are doing all this as followers of Islam ....



Nothing ELSE but a drive to fight for Islam can be uniting and galvanising so many people, from so many corners of the world, into expressing such support. Nothing ELSE but Islam unites them. This isn't just a handful of people from one corner of the world, Jafar.


YOU ARE INVITED TO SHOW US JUST HOW THIS ALL PROVES ISLAM TO BE 'A RELIGION OF PEACE'


A little present from the ol' homeland, Jafar ....
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6134&stc=1

This was written by someone who doesn't speak Arabic. He's reversed the words. Probably Jafar....:)

[Drummond]

Catholic priests abused young boys believing they were doing good Christian work. That doesn't mean Christianity supports it. There is no scripture to support child abuse in Christianity as far as I know.

Jeff's already taken you to task on that wording, Jafar, and rightly so.

What Catholic priests there were who committed that abuse, did what they did, but NOT in the name of their Christian faith. Find me ONE case of ONE such priest ever claiming that their perverted actions were in any way a PRODUCT of their faith !!


Same with Islam

Well, hardly. Your Prophet Mohammed - this has been discussed before ! - was, himself, a documented 'kiddie fiddler', taking a 'bride' when she was NINE years old !!

Mohammed effectively BEGAN Islam .. having a total authority to shape Islam as he chose.

-- Which he did.


... there is nothing in Islam to support terrorism so I don't know why you choose to act so gullible and ignorant as to believe it when a terrorist kills someone and tells you it is good Islamic work without providing any proofs.

Ah, but is it ONE terrorist ? Or groups of them, independently formed, scattered clear across the world, equally independently ALL claiming to represent Islam in all they do ??

I've asked you this before, and I'm still waiting for an answer. How do you explain that they ALL do this .. how did they all manage the same interpretations, to draw the same understanding of what Islam is to them, UNLESS ISLAM ITSELF TEACHES IT ?


Why are you so quick to take the word of a terrorist and support his actions by giving him excuses?

Disgusting ! Jafar, I have never excused any Islamic terrorist's actions, and I never will !!!!!


I ask for proof that Islam supports terrorism, not examples of terrorists doing stuff that Islam condemns as proof.

And you have it. In spades. The very proof of the sheer numbers of terrorists who infer EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGES FROM ISLAM, INDEPENDENTLY FROM EACH OTHER.

[jafar00]

Jeff's already taken you to task on that wording, Jafar, and rightly so.

What Catholic priests there were who committed that abuse, did what they did, but NOT in the name of their Christian faith. Find me ONE case of ONE such priest ever claiming that their perverted actions were in any way a PRODUCT of their faith !!

They did it in Jesus's name time and time again.


His main abuser, his parish priest, encouraged Pat to visit him, then appeared to slip into a trance. Pat shook him. "I've just been talking to Jesus and he says would you like to go to heaven?" said the priest. Then he asked, "Do you love your mummy?" Yes Father. "Do you love your daddy?" Yes Father. "Do you love me? Because this is our little secret and you mustn't tell your mummy or daddy or you will go to the burny fire."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/07/catholic-priests-unmasked-god-boys


Audio tapes (http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-rape-trial-hears-audio-girls-alleged/story?id=14221603) were played for visibly sickened jurors in San Angelo, Texas, capturing Jeffs panting as he “blessed” girls among his nearly 80 alleged “wives” by raping them, accompanied by “Amens” and closing in the name of Jesus Christ.
(He’s also claimed to be channeling Christ, as it were, in repeatedly “prophesizing (http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,263728,263728)” doom and disaster for the court trying him, the judge presiding over his trial and the prosecutors “persecuting” him).

Read more: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/preacherskid/2011/08/pedophile-prophet-awaits-judgment-here-and-hereafter.html#ixzz35V3gmrcK


Well, hardly. Your Prophet Mohammed - this has been discussed before ! - was, himself, a documented 'kiddie fiddler', taking a 'bride' when she was NINE years old !!

It was also established before that his marriage to Aisha was not unusual for the time and was with the blessing of her family and all around. If it was as you say, it would have been done in secret with shame. The union was celebrated for centuries before recent changes to marriage customs and Islamophobes appeared to try and rewrite history.


I've asked you this before, and I'm still waiting for an answer. How do you explain that they ALL do this .. how did they all manage the same interpretations, to draw the same understanding of what Islam is to them, UNLESS ISLAM ITSELF TEACHES IT ?

I've asked you to provide proof of this. You have not.


Disgusting ! Jafar, I have never excused any Islamic terrorist's actions, and I never will !!!!!


Stop givingt them excuses by twisting their actions into something Islamic. Terrorism is not in any way supported by Islam.

[Jeff]

They did it in Jesus's name time and time again.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/07/catholic-priests-unmasked-god-boys


Read more: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/preacherskid/2011/08/pedophile-prophet-awaits-judgment-here-and-hereafter.html#ixzz35V3gmrcK



It was also established before that his marriage to Aisha was not unusual for the time and was with the blessing of her family and all around. If it was as you say, it would have been done in secret with shame. The union was celebrated for centuries before recent changes to marriage customs and Islamophobes appeared to try and rewrite history.



I've asked you to provide proof of this. You have not.



Stop givingt them excuses by twisting their actions into something Islamic. Terrorism is not in any way supported by Islam.

jafar I am not even going to argue this BS, but just a thought, if you put as much time in as you do trying to destroy other religions into fixing your own y'all might really be considered the religion of peace, instead you seem to be doing just what everyone
knows about Muslims ( that I might add you have said isn't true ) and that is, Muslims will be the religion of peace once they destroy all other religions :rolleyes:

[aboutime]

jafar I am not even going to argue this BS, but just a thought, if you put as much time in as you do trying to destroy other religions into fixing your own y'all might really be considered the religion of peace, instead you seem to be doing just what everyone
knows about Muslims ( that I might add you have said isn't true ) and that is, Muslims will be the religion of peace once they destroy all other religions :rolleyes:


Jeff. jafar does this kind of stuff to INCITE anger as part of his ongoing propaganda agenda. It is actually a total waste of time trying to discuss anything with him since...he has an excuse, or lame answer for everything he DEFENDS, then DENIES.
(a quote by aboutime) tired of being repeated after being ignored.

[NightTrain]

What Catholic priests there were who committed that abuse, did what they did, but NOT in the name of their Christian faith. Find me ONE case of ONE such priest ever claiming that their perverted actions were in any way a PRODUCT of their faith !!


They did it in Jesus's name time and time again.

This thread isn't about a few Catholic priest perverts, is it, Jafar? It's about Islam being out of control.

I see you've done your best to divert the conversation, but let's stay on topic.



Stop givingt them excuses by twisting their actions into something Islamic. Terrorism is not in any way supported by Islam.

If what you say is true, then why is there up to 400,000,000 muslims that actively support killing anyone that's not a muslim?

They all say it's perfectly islamic and will gladly quote verses to back up their beliefs as they saw your head off on video.

In fact, the last words shouted before blowing themselves up along with innocent civilians is "allahu ackbar".

What muslim organization is actively trying to combat this sort of behavior, Jafar? I'm not talking about some muslim in your local mosque saying it's wrong, I'm talking about a muslim organization that is trying to fix your problem with 400 MILLION muslims.

[Drummond]

They did it in Jesus's name time and time again.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/07/catholic-priests-unmasked-god-boys

As has been pointed out, Jafar, all this amounts to a redirection of the thread. The focus is meant to be on Islam, not Catholicism.

In any case, what makes you think I'm going to respect well-known LEFTIE sources ?? The Guardian is a Left-wing newspaper. The Observer, which they refer to, is a Sunday publication, ALSO Left wing. From your time in Britain, Jafar, I'm sure you know the truth of that for yourself.


It was also established before that his marriage to Aisha was not unusual for the time and was with the blessing of her family and all around. If it was as you say, it would have been done in secret with shame. The union was celebrated for centuries before recent changes to marriage customs and Islamophobes appeared to try and rewrite history.

Criticising a perversion is Islamophobia ?

I note the DEFENCE you offer for Mohammed's kiddie-fiddling activities. So tell me, how is it that - today - Muslims don't look back on the creator of Islam and wonder how it is that they revere a pervert ? EVEN if you argue that there was something 'normal' about what Mohammed did, because of how long ago it happened .. BY TODAY's STANDARD, it's considered a perversion. How are Muslims selectively blind to that ??

Besides, human nature doesn't 'mutate' over time. I cannot accept that people of that age could be so different that they could regard marrying (etc) children as part of normal human behaviour.


I've asked you to provide proof of this. You have not.

I've discussed abrogated verses elsewhere .. you should have seen a long list of them, many abrogated by the 'verse of the sword'.

And you also have this reply from NightTrain:


If what you say is true, then why is there up to 400,000,000 muslims that actively support killing anyone that's not a muslim?

They all say it's perfectly islamic and will gladly quote verses to back up their beliefs as they saw your head off on video.

In fact, the last words shouted before blowing themselves up along with innocent civilians is "allahu ackbar".

What muslim organization is actively trying to combat this sort of behavior, Jafar? I'm not talking about some muslim in your local mosque saying it's wrong, I'm talking about a muslim organization that is trying to fix your problem with 400 MILLION muslims.

I'm looking forward to your answer to this as well.


Stop givingt them excuses by twisting their actions into something Islamic. Terrorism is not in any way supported by Islam.

Verse of the Sword ... etc ?

And I keep making the same point (and I'm now not the only one) ... only to see you try and evade it. AGAIN ....

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE GREAT NUMBERS OF TERRORISTS, FROM VARIOUS PARTS OF THE WORLD, ALL MANAGING TO OBTAIN THEIR SUPPORT AND INSPIRATION FROM ISLAM, FOR WHAT THEY DO ? AND WHY DO THEY INSIST THAT THEY ACT IN THE SERVICE OF ISLAM ?

I AM NOT - REPEAT NOT - 'EXCUSING' TERRORISTS. BECAUSE I DON'T EXCUSE ISLAM, EITHER, FOR PROVIDING THAT GALVANISING INSPIRATION !

[fj1200]

Answering with questions is an old dem/lib/socialist trick.

Actually it's not.


Socratic method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method) (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Greece)philosopher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy) Socrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates), is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulatecritical thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking) and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic) method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.

Unless you're just scared of the outcome then it's best to demonize. :shrug:

[jafar00]

jafar I am not even going to argue this BS, but just a thought, if you put as much time in as you do trying to destroy other religions into fixing your own y'all might really be considered the religion of peace, instead you seem to be doing just what everyone
knows about Muslims ( that I might add you have said isn't true ) and that is, Muslims will be the religion of peace once they destroy all other religions :rolleyes:

On the contrary. I spend an inordinate time here defending my own religion here from people spreading BS and lies about it.

By mentioning the abuse of young boys by priests in the name of Jesus (as), my intention was not to try and destroy Christianity. I know as well as you do that despite what a priest might say, that Jesus spoke to him and supported the abuse, the Christian religion doesn't support it. The same with terrorists. No matter if a suicide bomber yells "Allahu Akbar" before killing himself and other innocent people. Islam still doesn't support his actions any more than the Bible allows a priest to fiddle with little Johnny.

Do you understand my point of view?






This thread isn't about a few Catholic priest perverts, is it, Jafar? It's about Islam being out of control.

I see you've done your best to divert the conversation, but let's stay on topic.

Why not? Every other thread gets diverted into a debate about Hamas or something if I dare to comment.

Is Islam really out of control, or are some Muslims out of control and out of Islam?



If what you say is true, then why is there up to 400,000,000 muslims that actively support killing anyone that's not a muslim?

I'm not going to make a vulgar comment about where you pulled that figure from. :)


They all say it's perfectly islamic and will gladly quote verses to back up their beliefs as they saw your head off on video.

In fact, the last words shouted before blowing themselves up along with innocent civilians is "allahu ackbar".

Do you believe that a Priest praising Jesus as he puts his hands down the pants of a choir boy makes it an Christian act?


As has been pointed out, Jafar, all this amounts to a redirection of the thread. The focus is meant to be on Islam, not Catholicism.

In any case, what makes you think I'm going to respect well-known LEFTIE sources ?? The Guardian is a Left-wing newspaper. The Observer, which they refer to, is a Sunday publication, ALSO Left wing. From your time in Britain, Jafar, I'm sure you know the truth of that for yourself.

The old lefty-righty argument. It just doesn't cut it.


Criticising a perversion is Islamophobia ?

Was it considered a perversion 1400 years ago? What about 500 years ago? That is the only judgement you need to make. You don't criticise the hundreds of other young marriages between kings and nobles at the time either so why single out this particular marriage?

The marriage of Mohamed (saw) and Aisha (ra) was performed with the blessing of her family, the community and recognised in the rest of the world as one of the great unions in history.


Besides, human nature doesn't 'mutate' over time. I cannot accept that people of that age could be so different that they could regard marrying (etc) children as part of normal human behaviour.

If you were able to go back in time, the people that lived then would most likely consider you to be quite the village idiot.


I've discussed abrogated verses elsewhere .. you should have seen a long list of them, many abrogated by the 'verse of the sword'.

You just don't understand the Islamic concept of abrogation do you? Abrogation in the Qur'aan is meant to strengthen what was said before, not replace it.

Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? (2:106)

You say the "verse of the sword" replaces peaceful verses calling Muslims to deal fairly with non believers and to fight them but you are leaving out a whole host of historic, literary, and religious context.

The whole discourse starts at 9:3 and ends 9:13. Why do you disregard the other 9 verses talking about peace and fair dealing with those who don't fight you? Is it because that by taking 9:5 completely out of context that it supports your warped view about Islam?

9:4 for example...

(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

Then 9:6 says to grant asylum, protection and education for any of the people who decide not to fight you.

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

The whole Surah when taken into context is about self defence from those who break a treaty and attack you FIRST, NOT about attacking people just because they don't believe.


HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE GREAT NUMBERS OF TERRORISTS, FROM VARIOUS PARTS OF THE WORLD, ALL MANAGING TO OBTAIN THEIR SUPPORT AND INSPIRATION FROM ISLAM, FOR WHAT THEY DO ? AND WHY DO THEY INSIST THAT THEY ACT IN THE SERVICE OF ISLAM ?

I AM NOT - REPEAT NOT - 'EXCUSING' TERRORISTS. BECAUSE I DON'T EXCUSE ISLAM, EITHER, FOR PROVIDING THAT GALVANISING INSPIRATION !

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN YOUR GULLIBILITY IN BELIEVING THAT THE TERRORISTS ARE ACTING ACCORDING TO ISLAM JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY SO?

[aboutime]

On the contrary. I spend an inordinate time here defending my own religion here from people spreading BS and lies about it.

By mentioning the abuse of young boys by priests in the name of Jesus (as), my intention was not to try and destroy Christianity. I know as well as you do that despite what a priest might say, that Jesus spoke to him and supported the abuse, the Christian religion doesn't support it. The same with terrorists. No matter if a suicide bomber yells "Allahu Akbar" before killing himself and other innocent people. Islam still doesn't support his actions any more than the Bible allows a priest to fiddle with little Johnny.

Do you understand my point of view?



Why not? Every other thread gets diverted into a debate about Hamas or something if I dare to comment.

Is Islam really out of control, or are some Muslims out of control and out of Islam?




I'm not going to make a vulgar comment about where you pulled that figure from. :)



Do you believe that a Priest praising Jesus as he puts his hands down the pants of a choir boy makes it an Christian act?



The old lefty-righty argument. It just doesn't cut it.



Was it considered a perversion 1400 years ago? What about 500 years ago? That is the only judgement you need to make. You don't criticise the hundreds of other young marriages between kings and nobles at the time either so why single out this particular marriage?

The marriage of Mohamed (saw) and Aisha (ra) was performed with the blessing of her family, the community and recognised in the rest of the world as one of the great unions in history.



If you were able to go back in time, the people that lived then would most likely consider you to be quite the village idiot.



You just don't understand the Islamic concept of abrogation do you? Abrogation in the Qur'aan is meant to strengthen what was said before, not replace it.

Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? (2:106)

You say the "verse of the sword" replaces peaceful verses calling Muslims to deal fairly with non believers and to fight them but you are leaving out a whole host of historic, literary, and religious context.

The whole discourse starts at 9:3 and ends 9:13. Why do you disregard the other 9 verses talking about peace and fair dealing with those who don't fight you? Is it because that by taking 9:5 completely out of context that it supports your warped view about Islam?

9:4 for example...

(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

Then 9:6 says to grant asylum, protection and education for any of the people who decide not to fight you.

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

The whole Surah when taken into context is about self defence from those who break a treaty and attack you FIRST, NOT about attacking people just because they don't believe.



HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN YOUR GULLIBILITY IN BELIEVING THAT THE TERRORISTS ARE ACTING ACCORDING TO ISLAM JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY SO?


jafar. TAKE NOTICE. You are the only member here who feels compelled to DEFEND anything. None of us who disagree with you, or your propaganda have any need to DEFEND anything. The TRUTH never needs to be defended.
(A quote by aboutime)

[jimnyc]

If what you say is true, then why is there up to 400,000,000 muslims that actively support killing anyone that's not a muslim?


I'm not going to make a vulgar comment about where you pulled that figure from. :)

Many estimates/studies/polls go as high as 15-25%. But let's look at it from a lower scale on this one, just 7%. That is 91 MILLION radical Muslims. That's based on a smaller number of Muslims (article is from 2008). If the percentage remained the same as the population increased, then the higher estimates would in fact be around 400 million, with the low scale at less than 100 million.


A new Gallup poll is being touted as a “challenge” to western misperceptions of Islam. The survey was done on three continents and took six years to complete, and as the French news agency AFP reports, we’ve all been a little alarmist over here: “About 93 percent of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims are moderates and only seven percent are politically radical, according to the poll, based on more than 50,000 interviews.”

Seven percent of 1.3 billion leaves us with . . . 91 million radical Islamists. And to think we were concerned! That piddling handful is nothing that can’t be taken care of with a little dialogue, a few billion in American aid, and some proper education. I’m feeling audaciously hopeful.

But, wait, what’s this? “The radicals are better educated, have better jobs, and are more hopeful with regard to the future than mainstream Muslims,” said John Esposito, who authored the book Who Speaks for Islam.

Oh well.

One shouldn’t cherry-pick facts to fit an agenda. The study does say that radicals “believe in democracy even more than many of the mainstream moderates do.” But does anyone really think we’re operating with a consistent definition of democracy here? The Muslim Brotherhood, for example, makes claims to be democratic, yet its leaders-for-life are not elected, the organization boasts a doctrine of female subordination, and it calls for the death of apostates. Kind of a big-government democracy, I suppose.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2008/02/27/muslim-survey-challenges-west/

[aboutime]

Many estimates/studies/polls go as high as 15-25%. But let's look at it from a lower scale on this one, just 7%. That is 91 MILLION radical Muslims. That's based on a smaller number of Muslims (article is from 2008). If the percentage remained the same as the population increased, then the higher estimates would in fact be around 400 million, with the low scale at less than 100 million.



http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2008/02/27/muslim-survey-challenges-west/


WHY NOT jafar?
Your lying is as vulgar as any accusation you make here about numbers being pulled out of the air.
DEFEND that! You have to defend against being proven wrong...as in proliferating a LIE.

[Drummond]

On the contrary. I spend an inordinate time here defending my own religion here from people spreading BS and lies about it.

I wonder how many times it's been in the past that you've been challenged to show us that accounts of outrages done in the name of Islam are reported incorrectly ?


By mentioning the abuse of young boys by priests in the name of Jesus (as), my intention was not to try and destroy Christianity. I know as well as you do that despite what a priest might say, that Jesus spoke to him and supported the abuse, the Christian religion doesn't support it. The same with terrorists. No matter if a suicide bomber yells "Allahu Akbar" before killing himself and other innocent people. Islam still doesn't support his actions any more than the Bible allows a priest to fiddle with little Johnny.

Do you understand my point of view?

I for one understand where you're trying to lead the argument ... to a form of equivalence, I think. But that attempt is flawed.

A Catholic priest indulging in perverted conduct, does so as an individual. He neither forms a group, nor a 'cell', designed to further such conduct in the name of his religion. Where terrorists are concerned, however, they DO form groups, they DO form covert cells, they DO organise, and fight, to KILL and MAIM as members of that group or cell.

Catholic priests don't form terrorist camps. They don't create websites to recruit people to their perversions. Islamic terrorists, by total contrast, DO JUST THAT ... and in the name of Islam.


Why not? Every other thread gets diverted into a debate about Hamas or something if I dare to comment.

Have you ever thought to issue a totally uncompromising condemnation of Hamas, one that makes no attempt whatever to equivocate / excuse them ?


Is Islam really out of control, or are some Muslims out of control and out of Islam?

There are some lovers of Jihad, and/or of all-conquering Sharia, who think themselves to be the only true proponents of Islam. Anjem Choudary comes to mind. Or, Abu Hamza. Or ... well, there are many others, aren't there, Jafar ?

Not all of them are members of Hamas.


The old lefty-righty argument. It just doesn't cut it.

There are many activist, or 'politically correct' Lefties, who'll do their level best to favour Islam and Islamists. Therefore, the Leftie bona fides of disseminators can be highly relevant.

I don't trust either the Guardian or the Observer not to taint their articles with bias.


Was it considered a perversion 1400 years ago? What about 500 years ago? That is the only judgement you need to make. You don't criticise the hundreds of other young marriages between kings and nobles at the time either so why single out this particular marriage?

How many kings and nobles FOUNDED a religion ? And how many of those kings and nobles receive unswerving, unquestioned devotion after hundreds of years have passed ?

I, personally, don't buy the idea that standards from several centuries ago could've been so massively different as to accept perversions as total normality -- because this says that human nature ITSELF must have undergone a total reinvention. To me, that's nonsense.

We are clear today that conduct such as lusting after, or trying to 'marry' young kids ... IS perverted.

AND DESPITE THAT, ONE PERVERT CALLED MOHAMMED HAS MILLIONS OF DEVOTEES SPANNING THE CENTURIES, SAID DEVOTEES HAPPY TO WHITEWASH IT ALL, EVEN CELEBRATE IT (!!!!!!) FOR THE SAKE OF PROMOTING A RELIGION.


The marriage of Mohamed (saw) and Aisha (ra) was performed with the blessing of her family, the community and recognised in the rest of the world as one of the great unions in history.

-- QED !!!


If you were able to go back in time, the people that lived then would most likely consider you to be quite the village idiot.

Why ? In 'earlier' Islam, was perversion thought of as an indicator of intelligence ???


You just don't understand the Islamic concept of abrogation do you? Abrogation in the Qur'aan is meant to strengthen what was said before, not replace it.

Indeed ?

http://islamqa.info/en/105746


Q: Are there any verses that have been abrogated, i.e., erased from the Qur’an and replaced with others? Is there any book that speaks about the verses and soorahs, i.e., whether they were put in order by the Sahaabah or by the Messenger or by Allah, and the names of the soorahs, and so on?.

A: Praise be to Allah
Firstly:

Naskh (abrogation) in Arabic means lifting and removing. In Islamic terminology it means lifting a ruling indicated by a shar‘i text, on the basis of evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah.

The concept of abrogation is based on the Qur’an and Sunnah, and on the consensus (ijmaa‘) of Ahl as-Sunnah, and there is great wisdom behind it. In most cases the abrogation was for the purpose of making things easier for the Muslims or increasing the rewards.

Allah, may He be exalted, said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.”

[al-Baqarah 2:106-107].

Shaykh ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan as-Sa‘di (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Naskh (abrogation) means moving; thus the meaning of abrogation is moving those who are accountable from one prescribed ruling to another, or waiving the ruling.

Abrogation is a simple concept. One verse appears. Then, some time later, another appears which changes or reverses entirely the previous verse. Because the second one post-dates the first, it has greater, and countering, authority.

On another thread, I posted you a very long list of abrogations (many involving cancellings out because of the later Verse of the Sword). Do you really need me to post it a SECOND time, Jafar ?


HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN YOUR GULLIBILITY IN BELIEVING THAT THE TERRORISTS ARE ACTING ACCORDING TO ISLAM JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY SO?

How is it that SO MANY do, independently from each other, thousands of miles from each other ? The coincidence involved in their ALL BEING WRONG, IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, TO THE SAME DEGREE, would have to be - if it WAS one - THE biggest, most incredible coincidence, of all time !!!

And it's a 'coincidence' that you STILL haven't explained.

So, what's your difficulty ?

A Muslim happy to, and capable of, disowning large numbers of his own faith just because he doesn't approve of their expressions of devoutness .. should be capable of such a feat ... yes ?

[jafar00]

Many estimates/studies/polls go as high as 15-25%. But let's look at it from a lower scale on this one, just 7%. That is 91 MILLION radical Muslims. That's based on a smaller number of Muslims (article is from 2008). If the percentage remained the same as the population increased, then the higher estimates would in fact be around 400 million, with the low scale at less than 100 million.



http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2008/02/27/muslim-survey-challenges-west/

Nice source. What are the chances they are going to give you an unbiased and impartial view about Islam and Muslims?


worked since 1906 to safeguard and strengthen Jews and Jewish life worldwide
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/about/


I for one understand where you're trying to lead the argument ... to a form of equivalence, I think. But that attempt is flawed.

A Catholic priest indulging in perverted conduct, does so as an individual. He neither forms a group, nor a 'cell', designed to further such conduct in the name of his religion. Where terrorists are concerned, however, they DO form groups, they DO form covert cells, they DO organise, and fight, to KILL and MAIM as members of that group or cell.

Catholic priests don't form terrorist camps. They don't create websites to recruit people to their perversions. Islamic terrorists, by total contrast, DO JUST THAT ... and in the name of Islam.

The Catholic Church covered it up from the highest levels. There's your "cell".


Have you ever thought to issue a totally uncompromising condemnation of Hamas, one that makes no attempt whatever to equivocate / excuse them ?

It took you a while to bring up Hamas. I was starting to wonder why. I thought we'd already dealt with the issue. I'm not going to be your broken record.


There are some lovers of Jihad, and/or of all-conquering Sharia, who think themselves to be the only true proponents of Islam. Anjem Choudary comes to mind. Or, Abu Hamza. Or ... well, there are many others, aren't there, Jafar ?

Not all of them are members of Hamas.

I do Jihad every day. I'm not a member of Hamas either.


There are many activist, or 'politically correct' Lefties, who'll do their level best to favour Islam and Islamists. Therefore, the Leftie bona fides of disseminators can be highly relevant.

I don't trust either the Guardian or the Observer not to taint their articles with bias.

Nonetheless, the lefty-righty argument is in invalid one when you aren't debating about each side of politics. You can leave the partisanship to the Americans. They do it better than us anyway. :p


How many kings and nobles FOUNDED a religion ? And how many of those kings and nobles receive unswerving, unquestioned devotion after hundreds of years have passed ?

I, personally, don't buy the idea that standards from several centuries ago could've been so massively different as to accept perversions as total normality -- because this says that human nature ITSELF must have undergone a total reinvention. To me, that's nonsense.

History is history. Learn from it.


Colin Turner, a professor of Islamic studies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_studies),[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#cite_note-41) states that since such marriages between an older man and a young girl were customary among the Bedouins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedouin), Muhammad's marriage would not have been considered improper by his contemporaries.[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#cite_note-42)Moreover, Karen Armstrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Armstrong), the British author on comparative religion, has affirmed that "There was no impropriety in Muhammad's marriage to Aisha. Marriages conducted in absentia to seal an alliance were often contracted at this time between adults and minors who were even younger than Aisha. This practice continued in Europe well into the early modern period."[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#cite_note-:0-43)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Aisha

Indeed ?

http://islamqa.info/en/105746



Abrogation is a simple concept. One verse appears. Then, some time later, another appears which changes or reverses entirely the previous verse. Because the second one post-dates the first, it has greater, and countering, authority.

On another thread, I posted you a very long list of abrogations (many involving cancellings out because of the later Verse of the Sword). Do you really need me to post it a SECOND time, Jafar ?

By your understanding of abrogation in the Qur'aan, the following (among many others) would abrogate your "verse of the sword" argument for they were revealed chronologically AFTER 9:5!

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. [5:8]

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. [60:8]

Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned. [45:14]


How is it that SO MANY do, independently from each other, thousands of miles from each other ? The coincidence involved in their ALL BEING WRONG, IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, TO THE SAME DEGREE, would have to be - if it WAS one - THE biggest, most incredible coincidence, of all time !!!


I blame billions of dollars spent by the Sauds and their Salafism, a concept that has led many astray and resulted in such abominations as the Taliban who have discarded centuries of Islamic jurisprudence for their own, greedy, evil, self empowering doctrine.

[jimnyc]

Nice source. What are the chances they are going to give you an unbiased and impartial view about Islam and Muslims?


http://www.commentarymagazine.com/about/

Once again, avoid the subject and condemn the source. Did you read the part in there where the source was a 6 years in the making by Gallup? But go ahead and be dismissive again, disregard facts and such, and ignore the radical ways of so many Muslims.

Oh, and did I mention that the gent in the story, Esposito, works for Gallup and is a foreign policy expert? I was about to start posting PDF's and other Gallup information related to this - but would it really matter? It's either going to be a bad source, not real Muslims, people with agenda, lies or some other crap. Do some research as I did, it's all there in black and white.

The fact is - this many Muslims are considered radicalized. At a MINIMUM it nears 100 million. These are animals that want to see other countries annihilated, disappear or fully converted to Islam.

And you can deny till you turn blue - it doesn't do anything at all to stop the radical ways, the terrorism, the death, destruction, abuse, discrimination and other sickening acts and ways.

---

A new Gallup poll is being touted as a “challenge” to western misperceptions of Islam. The survey was done on three continents and took six years to complete, and as the French news agency AFP (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5ajtNJ0qTTRMBSFpYngMOjrmDbQ) reports, we’ve all been a little alarmist over here: “About 93 percent of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims are moderates and only seven percent are politically radical, according to the poll, based on more than 50,000 interviews.”

[jimnyc]

As for the gent in the article. His credentials look decent to me. Not sure why a guy would be a leader in the field he is in if his only reason to do so is to defame Muslims and promote Jews.

Oh, wait - he doesn't work there. That's right, it was just a short article on their site that talks about Esposito and his work with Gallup. :dunno:

John L. Esposito, Ph.D., is a leading expert on the Muslim world. He is University Professor and a professor of religion and international affairs and of Islamic studies at Georgetown University and the founding director of Georgetown's Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding in the Walsh School of Foreign Service. He is also the past president of the Middle East Studies Association of North America and of the American Council for the Study of Islamic Societies and a consultant to governments and multinational corporations. Esposito is editor in chief of The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World and Oxford Islamic Studies Online. His more than 35 books include What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam and Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam. He currently resides in Washington, D.C., with his wife, Jeanette P. Esposito, Ph.D.

[stevecanuck]

Jafar can post every peaceful sounding verse in the Qur'an, and list every Muslim agency in the world that has condemned terrorism, but it just doesn't matter. All that matters is that the Qur'an contains many hundreds of verses dedicated to denigrating infidels, and many verses urging Muslims to commit violence against infidels and to spread the rule of Islam. And THOSE are the verses that the terrorists follow. It really is that simple.

[Abbey Marie]

Jafar can post every peaceful sounding verse in the Qur'an, and list every Muslim agency in the world that has condemned terrorism, but it just doesn't matter. All that matters is that the Qur'an contains many hundreds of verses dedicated to denigrating infidels, and many verses urging Muslims to commit violence against infidels and to spread the rule of Islam. And THOSE are the verses that the terrorists follow. It really is that simple.

Allah must be weak indeed. My God doesn't need me to force anyone to be Christian. If he wanted forced worship, he could accomplish that all by Himself.

[jafar00]

Jafar can post every peaceful sounding verse in the Qur'an, and list every Muslim agency in the world that has condemned terrorism, but it just doesn't matter. All that matters is that the Qur'an contains many hundreds of verses dedicated to denigrating infidels, and many verses urging Muslims to commit violence against infidels and to spread the rule of Islam. And THOSE are the verses that the terrorists follow. It really is that simple.

I can post walls of text backing up the fact that you are wrong, and you will still reject it?
I can post hundreds of quotes from Muslims and Islamic leaders, all condemning terrorism and you will still reject it?
Am I wasting my time?


Allah must be weak indeed. My God doesn't need me to force anyone to be Christian. If he wanted forced worship, he could accomplish that all by Himself.

I don't know where you got your information about Islam. We don't have forced belief either.

Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) (18:29)
No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah (10:100)
Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (24:54)
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error (2:256)

[aboutime]

I can post walls of text backing up the fact that you are wrong, and you will still reject it?
I can post hundreds of quotes from Muslims and Islamic leaders, all condemning terrorism and you will still reject it?
Am I wasting my time?



I don't know where you got your information about Islam. We don't have forced belief either.

Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) (18:29)
No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah (10:100)
Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (24:54)
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error (2:256)



JAFAR. You can call it whatever you like (walls of text), but that will never change the real identity of what you bring here and defend as PROPAGANDA.

As for your denial of FORCED BELIEF. Really? What is taking place around the world against those who refuse to Become ISLAMIST, or MUSLIM?

What would you call FORCED?

[stevecanuck]

I can post walls of text backing up the fact that you are wrong, and you will still reject it?
I can post hundreds of quotes from Muslims and Islamic leaders, all condemning terrorism and you will still reject it?
Am I wasting my time?


What did I get wrong? Are infidel denigrated in the Qur'an or not? Do Islamists follow the sword verses or not? You addressed neither of my points.

[Jeff]

I can post walls of text backing up the fact that you are wrong, and you will still reject it?
I can post hundreds of quotes from Muslims and Islamic leaders, all condemning terrorism and you will still reject it?
Am I wasting my time?



I don't know where you got your information about Islam. We don't have forced belief either.

Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) (18:29)
No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah (10:100)
Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (24:54)
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error (2:256)

Yes you are , because reality shows something else.

With that said I believe you jafar, I believe there are those that believe y'all have a peaceful religion, to those I say open up your eyes !

[Drummond]

The Catholic Church covered it up from the highest levels. There's your "cell".

Hiding a scandal doesn't equate to what we're supposed to be discussing, Jafar.


It took you a while to bring up Hamas. I was starting to wonder why. I thought we'd already dealt with the issue. I'm not going to be your broken record.

... nor yet, AGAIN, are you going to commit yourself to unequivocal condemnation !! Yes, Jafar, you KEEP doing this.

It eats away at the credibility of your position.


I do Jihad every day.

Tell us more !


I'm not a member of Hamas either.

Considering your 'Jihad' statement, Jafar, should that be regarded as a form of miracle ?

Hamas, Jafar, are extremely clear as to what they regard Jihad to be. And ... you won't unequivocally condemn them ...


Nonetheless, the lefty-righty argument is in invalid one when you aren't debating about each side of politics. You can leave the partisanship to the Americans. They do it better than us anyway. :p

What is relevant is the extent of bias one can expect from Lefties ... and their dedicated sources ...


History is history. Learn from it.

I do.

What does history teach us to be true about Mohammed ?

And ... did you learn from that ? OR .. does Islam command you to sweep such unpleasant truths aside, or otherwise accommodate them as somehow acceptable ?


By your understanding of abrogation in the Qur'aan ...

Er'm, not just 'mine'. Nor is it an 'understanding' as such. It is the TRUTH.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

... WHICH SAYS ...


Abrogation in the Qur'an
The Qur'an is unique among sacred scriptures in accepting a doctrine of abrogation in which later pronouncements of the Prophet declare null and void his earlier pronouncements. Four verses in the Qu'ran acknowledge or justify abrogation:



When we cancel a message, or throw it into oblivion, we replace it with one better or one similar. Do you not know that God has power over all things?
When we replace a message with another, and God knows best what he reveals, they say: You have made it up. Yet, most of them do not know.
God abrogates or confirms whatsoever he will, for he has with him the Book of the Books.
If we pleased, we could take away what we have revealed to you. Then you will not find anyone to plead for it with us.


Rather than explain away inconsistencies in passages regulating the Muslim community, many jurists acknowledge the differences but accept that latter verses trump earlier verses.Most scholars divide the Qur'an into verses revealed by Muhammad in Mecca when his community of followers was weak and more inclined to compromise, and those revealed in Medina, where Muhammad's strength grew.

Classical scholars argued that anyone who studied the Qur'an without having mastered the doctrine of abrogation would be "deficient."Those who do not accept abrogation fall outside the mainstream and, perhaps, even the religion itself.
Tell me how that could possibly be any clearer, Jafar. And it's clear from this that if you don't properly accept abrogation and its authority within Quranic verses ... you are actually defying either the mainstream of your religion, or maybe THE RELIGION ITSELF.

I leave it up to you as to whether you want to do that, Jafar.


the following (among many others) would abrogate your "verse of the sword" argument for they were revealed chronologically AFTER 9:5!

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. [5:8]

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. [60:8]

Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned. [45:14]

Verse 5:8 ... I may (I put it no more strongly than that ..) have an answer for you.

http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Abrogated%20%20%20Mansookh%20Verses.html


Ibn 'Arabi said,"The verse of the 'sword' 9:5, has abrogated 124 verses of the Quran"(p. 69).
According to Ibn Kathir,that (the verse of the Sword)abrogated every peace treaty that had been made with the idolaters:

9: 5But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful

This verse (9:5) was called the verse of the 'Sword', about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said,

"It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, EVERY TREATY, AND EVERY TERM."


As for your remaining two verses, however ... BOTH are abrogated by later ones.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam (http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam)

Verse 60:8 .. abrogated by 9:29

Verse 45:14 .. abrogated by 9:36.

Don't just take my word for it. See, from the above link --


Table 1: Abrogation in Practice
<tbody>
Verse Abrogating
Verse Abrogated
Issue


2:185
2:184
Fasting


2:234
2:240
Divorced women


2:285
2:284
Revelations


3:85-6; 9:73
2:62; 2:256; 5:69
Tolerance - Ahl al-Kitab


4:11-12
2:180; 2:240
Bequest-Inheritance


5:90
2:219; 4:43
Wine drinking


8:66
8:65
Fighting abilities


9:29
2:109; 60:8-9
People of the Book


9:36
2:217; 45:14
Prohibition of fighting


22:52
53:19-23
Satan and his daughters


24:2
4:15-7
Adultery and fornication


33:50
33:52
Muhammad's wives


58:13
58:12
Money for conferring


64:16
3:102
Fear of God


73:20
73:2-3
Night prayer

</tbody>

Muhammad's ability to add or delete verses according to questions or contemporary issues also demonstrates the flexibility of the Qur'an.[40] (http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam#_ftn40) Classical theologians accepted that Medinan chapters supersede Meccan, not only for chronological reasons, but also because the Medinan verses represent Islam during a period of strength.

So tell us, Jafar. In consideration of each of your two quoted verses having been superseded, thanks to abrogation, have you tried to mislead us by attributing authority to verses which, in truth, HAVE NONE ?


I blame billions of dollars spent by the Sauds and their Salafism, a concept that has led many astray and resulted in such abominations as the Taliban who have discarded centuries of Islamic jurisprudence for their own, greedy, evil, self empowering doctrine.

Nope. Not nearly good enough. Lavish spending and propaganda initiatives wouldn't, credibly, account for the many and varied groups ACROSS the world now prepared to wage terrorism -- or, JIHAD -- in the 'service of Islam'. You don't make something true by repeatedly declaring it is. Neither do you do it by spending money. If the Quran says and means, legitimately so, what YOU claim for it ... then the truth would win out.

Yet .. we see what we see. Misery, carnage, savagery, brutality, ALL in the name of Islam ... and from so many terrorists.

Including Hamas, of course.

[aboutime]

Hiding a scandal doesn't equate to what we're supposed to be discussing, Jafar.



... nor yet, AGAIN, are you going to commit yourself to unequivocal condemnation !! Yes, Jafar, you KEEP doing this.

It eats away at the credibility of your position.



Tell us more !



Considering your 'Jihad' statement, Jafar, should that be regarded as a form of miracle ?

Hamas, Jafar, are extremely clear as to what they regard Jihad to be. And ... you won't unequivocally condemn them ...



What is relevant is the extent of bias one can expect from Lefties ... and their dedicated sources ...



I do.

What does history teach us to be true about Mohammed ?

And ... did you learn from that ? OR .. does Islam command you to sweep such unpleasant truths aside, or otherwise accommodate them as somehow acceptable ?



Er'm, not just 'mine'. Nor is it an 'understanding' as such. It is the TRUTH.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

... WHICH SAYS ...


Tell me how that could possibly be any clearer, Jafar. And it's clear from this that if you don't properly accept abrogation and its authority within Quranic verses ... you are actually defying either the mainstream of your religion, or maybe THE RELIGION ITSELF.

I leave it up to you as to whether you want to do that, Jafar.



Verse 5:8 ... I may (I put it no more strongly than that ..) have an answer for you.

http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Abrogated%20%20%20Mansookh%20Verses.html



As for your remaining two verses, however ... BOTH are abrogated by later ones.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam (http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam)

Verse 60:8 .. abrogated by 9:29

Verse 45:14 .. abrogated by 9:36.

Don't just take my word for it. See, from the above link --



So tell us, Jafar. In consideration of each of your two quoted verses having been superseded, thanks to abrogation, have you tried to mislead us by attributing authority to verses which, in truth, HAVE NONE ?



Nope. Not nearly good enough. Lavish spending and propaganda initiatives wouldn't, credibly, account for the many and varied groups ACROSS the world now prepared to wage terrorism -- or, JIHAD -- in the 'service of Islam'. You don't make something true by repeatedly declaring it is. Neither do you do it by spending money. If the Quran says and means, legitimately so, what YOU claim for it ... then the truth would win out.

Yet .. we see what we see. Misery, carnage, savagery, brutality, ALL in the name of Islam ... and from so many terrorists.

Including Hamas, of course.



Sir Drummond, and All who care.

I've nearly come to the point of no return with jafar. His denial in nearly ALL THINGS we call facts, or truth will NEVER be acceptable to him.
Jafar seems to practice that old adage about the definition of "Insanity".
"Trying something and failing. Then trying the same thing again, expecting different results!"
(not all my words)

[Jeff]

Sir Drummond, and All who care.

I've nearly come to the point of no return with jafar. His denial in nearly ALL THINGS we call facts, or truth will NEVER be acceptable to him.
Jafar seems to practice that old adage about the definition of "Insanity".
"Trying something and failing. Then trying the same thing again, expecting different results!"
(not all my words)

AT in all fairness I think jafar is doing the best he can, he is one against many and he truly believes in what he says, now understand I don't believe him but I do give him credit that he tries.

And Yes I know this is off topic but I think as many shots that jafar takes he is a good sport and he truly believers what he says.

[aboutime]

AT in all fairness I think jafar is doing the best he can, he is one against many and he truly believes in what he says, now understand I don't believe him but I do give him credit that he tries.

And Yes I know this is off topic but I think as many shots that jafar takes he is a good sport and he truly believers what he says.


Jeff. I totally agree with you. Like Obama. Jafar must truly believe what he says, and does are the right things to say, and do.
And, like you. I can't believe he allows himself to become such a target that is SO EASY TO HIT.

[stevecanuck]

AT in all fairness I think jafar is doing the best he can, he is one against many and he truly believes in what he says, now understand I don't believe him but I do give him credit that he tries.

And Yes I know this is off topic but I think as many shots that jafar takes he is a good sport and he truly believers what he says.

No, he doesn't try, he denies and lies. When I confronted him about the military conquests of the first Muslims, he actually claimed that they didn't go to conquer, but to invite others to Islam, and that if they had received a polite "No thank you" rather than hostility, they would have simply turned around and gone home. Yes, he really said that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

No, he doesn't try, he denies and lies. When I confronted him about the military conquests of the first Muslims, he actually claimed that they didn't go to conquer, but to invite others to Islam, and that if they had received a polite "No thank you" rather than hostility, they would have simply turned around and gone home. Yes, he really said that.





he actually claimed that they didn't go to conquer, but to invite others to Islam, and that if they had received a polite "No thank you" rather than hostility, they would have simply turned around and gone home. Yes, he really said that
What is sad is that he just may be so deluded as to actually believe that!!!!!
Islam murdered millions because millions refused to be enslaved by conversion. It is just that simple.
They came like the Borg! And that is how they will always come when they have the power and strength to do so!!!
They will if able to murder every non-muslim then they'd fight and murder each other for any minor differences in that so-called religion.
It is and was created by Satan, ruled by Satan and it's ultimate goal is always=MURDER!!!! -Tyr

[Drummond]

Folks, I think that the truth of what Jafar believes is somewhere in the middle of all this.

I think Jafar has a vision of what he WANTS Islam to be, and cherrypicks to fit his preferences. Now, whether this is a deliberate exercise where he consciously sanitises because he - in his heart of hearts - knows that Islam is a whole lot worse than he chooses to see it to be, or, whether he's doing a 'doublethink' like as in Orwell's '1984', where he simultaneously knows the truth but also embraces a far rosier picture and identifies fully with it ... I don't know.

... BUT ... he definitely cherrypicks, definitely evades, and this to some degree must be a deliberate, consciously undertaken exercise. He knows, for example, of the very long thread on this forum detailing terrorist atrocity after terrorist atrocity. His approach to it ? To very largely ignore it. When asked about Hamas ... we've had to drag a distancing of his away from it, from repeated questioning ... and now, whilst being critical of them, saying he criticises exactly what they get up to, STILL, he falls short of offering a total and unequivocal condemnation of them.

That evasion is persistent, and surely deliberate ... even though we get a shunning of terrorists AS terrorists, and terrorists as being Islamic, at the same time.

I also note a certain highly convenient blindness to the abrogation principle. But its existence, and how it's applied, are all too clear. BUT .. be blind to abrogation, and you're free to cherrypick as is most convenient ....

Jafar clings to his truth, and wants others to follow him in that. It could be a cynical exercise. IS it ? I strongly suspect so.

[jafar00]

JAFAR. You can call it whatever you like (walls of text), but that will never change the real identity of what you bring here and defend as PROPAGANDA.

As for your denial of FORCED BELIEF. Really? What is taking place around the world against those who refuse to Become ISLAMIST, or MUSLIM?

What would you call FORCED?

If anyone tries to force someone to believe, all they achieve is to create hypocrites. Hypocrites are just as much in the hellfire as those who refuse to believe once given the message.

I have given verses to show forced conversion is not possible in Islam. Accept what you will or don't because your heart is sealed from the truth.


What did I get wrong? Are infidel denigrated in the Qur'an or not? Do Islamists follow the sword verses or not? You addressed neither of my points.

Yes, "infidels" are placed in the hellfire throughout the Qur'aan. Fire and brimstone and all that. The Bible has it too don't forget. What's your point?

Do "Islamists" follow the sword verse(s) (sic) (What is it more than one verse now?)? First define what an Islamist is. Is it a politician, or a terrorist? The definition seems to be interchangeable depending on which publication you are reading.


Hiding a scandal doesn't equate to what we're supposed to be discussing, Jafar.

It has everything to do with it. Your contention that Islam is out of control and responsible for the troubles in the world. You can place the same blame on the Catholic Church, if you ignore the scripture that actually condemns it.


Tell us more !

Waking up at 5am (at the moment) to go to the Mosque to pray is one Jihad. On Sunday we start another. Ramadan! Fasting for a month is Jihad.

What did you expect?


http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

... WHICH SAYS ...

Which says... exactly what you would expect from a Zionist point of view.


http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Abrogated%20%20%20Mansookh%20Verses.html

What rot are you reading? This guy has no credentials apart from having studied by himself for 30 years.

If I read a book on brain surgery, and perhaps watched a couple of youtube videos, would you let me operate on your brain?

Didn't think so. Likewise I don't accept your source.


So tell us, Jafar. In consideration of each of your two quoted verses having been superseded, thanks to abrogation, have you tried to mislead us by attributing authority to verses which, in truth, HAVE NONE ?

You still don't understand the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan.

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar (2:106)

Nothing is replaced. It is embellished upon.

You can take verses out of context to push your agenda if you like, but you will fail.

Verse 9:5 is for a very specific set of circumstances and in no way abrogates (or replaces in your understanding) anything in the Qur'aan.

I found this which explains where you went wrong in simple terms.


It has been claimed by some that this verse 9:5 has abrogated all the peaceful verses in the Qur’an. However, this claim results from a misunderstanding of some Qur’anic concepts. In the Qur’an there is naskh and there is also takhsees. Naskh is the abrogation of a ruling by a ruling that was revealed after it. Naskh occurs in matters of Islamic law. Takhsees on the other hand refers to specification, where one verse restricts the application of another verse, or specifies the limits not mentioned in the other verse. As Shaykh Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi writes:
Specification involves one verse limiting or restricting a general ruling found in another verse, whereas naskh involves abrogating the first verse in toto (i.e., it is not applied in any circumstances or conditions). (Qadhi, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’aan;UK Al-Hidaayah Publishing and Distribution, 1999, p. 233)
Shaykh Qadhi also explains that one of the conditions for naskh is that the two conflicting rulings apply to the same situation under the same circumstances, and hence there is no alternative understanding of the application of the verses. As he states:
Therefore, if one of the rulings can apply to a specific case, and the other ruling to a different case, this cannot be considered an example of naskh. (Qadhi, An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur’aan;UK Al-Hidaayah Publishing and Distribution, 1999, p. 237)
Therefore, verse 9:5 can in no way be considered an example of naskh since it is only a ruling applied to a very specific situation and circumstances.


http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary/


AT in all fairness I think jafar is doing the best he can, he is one against many and he truly believes in what he says, now understand I don't believe him but I do give him credit that he tries.

And Yes I know this is off topic but I think as many shots that jafar takes he is a good sport and he truly believers what he says.

Thank you.


No, he doesn't try, he denies and lies. When I confronted him about the military conquests of the first Muslims, he actually claimed that they didn't go to conquer, but to invite others to Islam, and that if they had received a polite "No thank you" rather than hostility, they would have simply turned around and gone home. Yes, he really said that.

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (2:190)


Folks, I think that the truth of what Jafar believes is somewhere in the middle of all this.

I think Jafar has a vision of what he WANTS Islam to be, and cherrypicks to fit his preferences. Now, whether this is a deliberate exercise where he consciously sanitises because he - in his heart of hearts - knows that Islam is a whole lot worse than he chooses to see it to be, or, whether he's doing a 'doublethink' like as in Orwell's '1984', where he simultaneously knows the truth but also embraces a far rosier picture and identifies fully with it ... I don't know.

... BUT ... he definitely cherrypicks, definitely evades, and this to some degree must be a deliberate, consciously undertaken exercise. He knows, for example, of the very long thread on this forum detailing terrorist atrocity after terrorist atrocity. His approach to it ? To very largely ignore it. When asked about Hamas ... we've had to drag a distancing of his away from it, from repeated questioning ... and now, whilst being critical of them, saying he criticises exactly what they get up to, STILL, he falls short of offering a total and unequivocal condemnation of them.

That evasion is persistent, and surely deliberate ... even though we get a shunning of terrorists AS terrorists, and terrorists as being Islamic, at the same time.

I also note a certain highly convenient blindness to the abrogation principle. But its existence, and how it's applied, are all too clear. BUT .. be blind to abrogation, and you're free to cherrypick as is most convenient ....

Jafar clings to his truth, and wants others to follow him in that. It could be a cynical exercise. IS it ? I strongly suspect so.

Are you seriously accusing me of cherrypicking when you pick single verses and twist them out of context into something they are not?

[jimnyc]

Once again, avoid the subject and condemn the source. Did you read the part in there where the source was a 6 years in the making by Gallup? But go ahead and be dismissive again, disregard facts and such, and ignore the radical ways of so many Muslims.

Oh, and did I mention that the gent in the story, Esposito, works for Gallup and is a foreign policy expert? I was about to start posting PDF's and other Gallup information related to this - but would it really matter? It's either going to be a bad source, not real Muslims, people with agenda, lies or some other crap. Do some research as I did, it's all there in black and white.

The fact is - this many Muslims are considered radicalized. At a MINIMUM it nears 100 million. These are animals that want to see other countries annihilated, disappear or fully converted to Islam.

And you can deny till you turn blue - it doesn't do anything at all to stop the radical ways, the terrorism, the death, destruction, abuse, discrimination and other sickening acts and ways.

---

A new Gallup poll is being touted as a “challenge” to western misperceptions of Islam. The survey was done on three continents and took six years to complete, and as the French news agency AFP (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5ajtNJ0qTTRMBSFpYngMOjrmDbQ) reports, we’ve all been a little alarmist over here: “About 93 percent of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims are moderates and only seven percent are politically radical, according to the poll, based on more than 50,000 interviews.”


As for the gent in the article. His credentials look decent to me. Not sure why a guy would be a leader in the field he is in if his only reason to do so is to defame Muslims and promote Jews.

Oh, wait - he doesn't work there. That's right, it was just a short article on their site that talks about Esposito and his work with Gallup. :dunno:

John L. Esposito, Ph.D., is a leading expert on the Muslim world. He is University Professor and a professor of religion and international affairs and of Islamic studies at Georgetown University and the founding director of Georgetown's Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding in the Walsh School of Foreign Service. He is also the past president of the Middle East Studies Association of North America and of the American Council for the Study of Islamic Societies and a consultant to governments and multinational corporations. Esposito is editor in chief of The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World and Oxford Islamic Studies Online. His more than 35 books include What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam and Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam. He currently resides in Washington, D.C., with his wife, Jeanette P. Esposito, Ph.D.

I'll assume there is a good reason that these posts were ignored, and that the reason is that it is accurate, and the "original source" merely mentioned the Gallup poll and Esposito.

[jimnyc]

What rot are you reading? This guy has no credentials apart from having studied by himself for 30 years.

If I read a book on brain surgery, and perhaps watched a couple of youtube videos, would you let me operate on your brain?

Didn't think so. Likewise I don't accept your source.

John L. Esposito, Ph.D., is a leading expert on the Muslim world. He is University Professor and a professor of religion and international affairs and of Islamic studies at Georgetown University and the founding director of Georgetown's Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding in the Walsh School of Foreign Service. He is also the past president of the Middle East Studies Association of North America and of the American Council for the Study of Islamic Societies and a consultant to governments and multinational corporations. Esposito is editor in chief of The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World and Oxford Islamic Studies Online. His more than 35 books include What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam and Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam. He currently resides in Washington, D.C., with his wife, Jeanette P. Esposito, Ph.D.

I believe his credentials are up to the task. 90-100 million, perhaps more.

[stevecanuck]

Yet, Jafar, Mohamed and the first Muslims did indeed begin hostilities. I know you'll deny it, but they did.

As for my point about constant denigration of infidels, it proves we are lesser beings. Where is the peace and tolerance in that?

Anyway, I really can't be bothered talking to a brick wall.

[stevecanuck]

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (2:190)



Hello, dmp. Isn't this where you jump in and scream, "OUT OF CONTEXT", or do you just reserve that for when I post quotes?

[Drummond]

It has everything to do with it. Your contention that Islam is out of control and responsible for the troubles in the world. You can place the same blame on the Catholic Church, if you ignore the scripture that actually condemns it.

That's over the top. Your wording hints at my asserting that ALL the world's troubles can be laid at Islam's door .. which is absurd. MANY can, to be sure, but some, not.

This is also over the top in terms of the magnitude of problem associated with those Catholic priests. There weren't whole countries dominated by priest perversions ... we're not talking about some 'plague' of them assaulting entire communities ! The scale of Islamic terrorism in the world is very much larger (.. and deadlier, of course).


Waking up at 5am (at the moment) to go to the Mosque to pray is one Jihad. On Sunday we start another. Ramadan! Fasting for a month is Jihad.

What did you expect?

Well, if you're fulfilling the entirety of the definition of 'Jihad' to be found within the Encyclopaedia Britannica ... rather more !

See ...

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/303857/jihad


jihad, also spelled jehad , (“struggle,” or “battle”), a religious duty imposed on Muslims to spread Islam by waging war; jihad has come to denote any conflict waged for principle or belief and is often translated to mean “holy war.”

It goes on to talk of 'modern' Muslims waging inner war with one's self. As opposed, presumably, to previous generations of Muslims ... who'd find other ways (and people) to wage war with.


Which says... exactly what you would expect from a Zionist point of view.

Here we go with the distancing denials ..

Truth be told, Jafar, that the site I posted a link to happens to post material contrasting in a major way with your own material, views etc. So naturally you'll just rubbish it all.


What rot are you reading? This guy has no credentials apart from having studied by himself for 30 years.

.... and again ....


If I read a book on brain surgery, and perhaps watched a couple of youtube videos, would you let me operate on your brain?

Didn't think so. Likewise I don't accept your source.

Brain surgery has WHAT relevance to the material I posted ?? Just one you've invented, evidently.

Can you prove the site wrong in what it says, or not ?


You still don't understand the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan.

You wish !!!!


None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar (2:106)

Nothing is replaced. It is embellished upon.

You can take verses out of context to push your agenda if you like, but you will fail.

Here's WikiIslam on that very verse, Jafar ....

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Abrogation_%28Naskh%29#Meaning_of_Verse_2:106


Meaning of Verse 2:106


The Meaning of Naskh


Ibn Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas said that,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh) means, "Whatever an Ayah We abrogate. Also, Ibn Jurayj said that Mujahid said that,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh) means, "Whatever an Ayah We erase. Also, Ibn Abi Najih said that Mujahid said that,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh) means, "We keep the words, but change the meaning. He related these words to the companions of `Abdullah bin Mas`ud. Ibn Abi Hatim said that similar statements were mentioned by Abu Al-`Aliyah and Muhammad bin Ka`b Al-Qurazi. Also As-Suddi said that,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh) means, "We erase it. Further, Ibn Abi Hatim said that it means, "Erase and raise it, such as erasing the following wordings (from the Qur'an), `The married adulterer and the married adulteress: stone them to death,' and, `If the son of Adam had two valleys of gold, he would seek a third.'


Ibn Jarir stated that,


(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh) means, "Whatever ruling we repeal in an Ayah by making the allowed unlawful and the unlawful allowed. The Nasakh only occurs with commandments, prohibitions, permissions, and so forth. As for stories, they do not undergo Nasakh. The word, `Nasakh' literally means, `to copy a book'. The meaning of Nasakh in the case of commandments is removing the commandment and replacing it by another. And whether the Nasakh involves the wordings, the ruling or both, it is still called Nasakh.

Allah said next,
(or Nunsiha (cause it to be forgotten)). `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas said that,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh or Nunsiha) means, "Whatever Ayah We repeal or uphold without change. Also, Mujahid said that the companions of Ibn Mas`ud (who read this word Nansa'ha) said that it means, "We uphold its wording and change its ruling. Further, `Ubayd bin `Umayr, Mujahid and `Ata' said, `Nansa'ha' means, "We delay it (i.e., do not abrogate it). Further, `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi said that the Ayah means, "We delay repealing it. This is the same Tafsir provided by As-Suddi and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas. `Abdur-Razzaq said that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said about Allah's statement,
(Whatever a verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten) "Allah made His Prophet forget what He willed and He abrogated what He will.


Allah's said,
(We bring a better one or similar to it), better, relates to the benefit provided for the one it addresses, as reported from `Ali bin Abi Talhah that Ibn `Abbas said,
(We bring a better one) means, "We bring forth a more beneficial ruling, that is also easier for you. Also, As-Suddi said that,
(We bring a better one or similar to it) means, "We bring forth a better Ayah, or similar to that which was repealed. Qatadah also said that,
(We bring a better one or similar to it) means, "We replace it by an Ayah more facilitating, permitting, commanding, or prohibiting.

You were saying .. ?


Verse 9:5 is for a very specific set of circumstances and in no way abrogates (or replaces in your understanding) anything in the Qur'aan.

... and yet, I've found material saying that well in excess of A HUNDRED verses are null and void because of it !!

http://www.meforum.org/3787/islamic-jihad-abrogation-doctrine


While other scriptures contain contradictions, the Koran is the only holy book whose commentators have evolved a doctrine to account for the very visible shifts which occur from one injunction to another. No careful reader will remain unaware of the many contradictory verses in the Koran, most specifically the way in which peaceful and tolerant verses lie almost side by side with violent and intolerant ones. The ulema were initially baffled as to which verses to codify into the Shari'a worldview—the one that states there is no coercion in religion (2:256), or the ones that command believers to fight all non-Muslims till they either convert, or at least submit, to Islam (8:39, 9:5, 9:29). To get out of this quandary, the commentators developed the doctrine of abrogation, which essentially maintains that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career take precedence over earlier ones whenever there is a discrepancy. In order to document which verses abrogated which, a religious science devoted to the chronology of the Koran's verses evolved (known as an-Nasikh wa'l Mansukh, the abrogater and the abrogated).

But why the contradiction in the first place? The standard view is that in the early years of Islam, since Muhammad and his community were far outnumbered by their infidel competitors while living next to them in Mecca, a message of peace and coexistence was in order. However, after the Muslims migrated to Medina in 622 and grew in military strength, verses inciting them to go on the offensive were slowly "revealed"—in principle, sent down from Allah—always commensurate with Islam's growing capabilities. In juridical texts, these are categorized in stages: passivity vis-á-vis aggression; permission to fight back against aggressors; commands to fight aggressors; commands to fight all non-Muslims, whether the latter begin aggressions or not. Growing Muslim might is the only variable that explains this progressive change in policy.

Other scholars put a gloss on this by arguing that over a twenty-two year period, the Koran was revealed piecemeal, from passive and spiritual verses to legal prescriptions and injunctions to spread the faith through jihad and conquest, simply to acclimate early Muslim converts to the duties of Islam, lest they be discouraged at the outset by the dramatic obligations that would appear in later verses. Verses revealed towards the end of Muhammad's career—such as, "Warfare is prescribed for you though you hate it" —would have been out of place when warfare was actually out of the question.

However interpreted, the standard view on Koranic abrogation concerning war and peace verses is that when Muslims are weak and in a minority position, they should preach and behave according to the ethos of the Meccan verses (peace and tolerance); when strong, however, they should go on the offensive on the basis of what is commanded in the Medinan verses (war and conquest). The vicissitudes of Islamic history are a testimony to this dichotomy, best captured by the popular Muslim notion, based on a hadith, that, if possible, jihad should be performed by the hand (force), if not, then by the tongue (through preaching); and, if that is not possible, then with the heart or one's intentions.

That Islam legitimizes deceit during war is, of course, not all that astonishing; after all, as the Elizabethan writer John Lyly put it, "All's fair in love and war." Other non-Muslim philosophers and strategists—such as Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, and Thomas Hobbes—justified deceit in warfare. Deception of the enemy during war is only common sense. The crucial difference in Islam, however, is that war against the infidel is a perpetual affair—until, in the words of the Koran, "all chaos ceases, and all religion belongs to Allah." In his entry on jihad from the Encyclopaedia of Islam, Emile Tyan states: "The duty of the jihad exists as long as the universal domination of Islam has not been attained. Peace with non-Muslim nations is, therefore, a provisional state of affairs only; the chance of circumstances alone can justify it temporarily."

Moreover, going back to the doctrine of abrogation, Muslim scholars such as Ibn Salama (d. 1020) agree that Koran 9:5, known as ayat as-sayf or the sword verse, has abrogated some 124 of the more peaceful Meccan verses, including "every other verse in the Koran, which commands or implies anything less than a total offensive against the nonbelievers."

Oho ! No wonder you want to 'rubbish' that particular Website's offerings !!


Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (2:190)

Reply:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Abrogation_(Naskh)


Misinformation Spread by Apologists

Only Meccan Verses are Universal Commands

When you understand abrogation, you understand what drives Islamic terrorism (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Terrorism) and extremism. This has led some apologists to flatly deny they are even aware of such a concept existing within Islam. Some have even attempted to create their own methods in choosing which verses apply to today's world.

One such example of this is the reversal of the truth; it is the obscure and baseless claim that the Medinan verses are read only in an historical and non-legal context, while the less violent Meccan verses are universal commands.

This in itself is not a negative thing, but when they try to pass this off to non-Muslims as authentic Islam and claim this is widely accepted by Islamic scholars, while never attempting to rectify the alleged misconceptions with their co-religionists, it is nothing more than deceptive propaganda (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Propaganda).

Furthermore, theologically this claim makes zero sense. It contradicts several sahih hadith, and Qur'an (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts) which prohibit the consumption of Alcohol and gambling, are Medinan verses.

Prior to the revelation of these verses, there were no prohibitions (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Intoxicants_and_Recreational_Games) against intoxicants and games of chance. So when is the last time you have heard Muslims claiming drinking alcohol and gambling is permitted in Islam today?

Are you seriously accusing me of cherrypicking when you pick single verses and twist them out of context into something they are not?
Considering the above ... you're joking, surely ?

[jafar00]

I'll assume there is a good reason that these posts were ignored, and that the reason is that it is accurate, and the "original source" merely mentioned the Gallup poll and Esposito.

Poll results can easily be twisted and cherry picked. I will ignore the results.


John L. Esposito, Ph.D., is a leading expert on the Muslim world. He is University Professor and a professor of religion and international affairs and of Islamic studies at Georgetown University and the founding director of Georgetown's Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding in the Walsh School of Foreign Service. He is also the past president of the Middle East Studies Association of North America and of the American Council for the Study of Islamic Societies and a consultant to governments and multinational corporations. Esposito is editor in chief of The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World and Oxford Islamic Studies Online. His more than 35 books include What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam and Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam. He currently resides in Washington, D.C., with his wife, Jeanette P. Esposito, Ph.D.

I believe his credentials are up to the task. 90-100 million, perhaps more.

My point was about the blogger "Al Rasooli"
https://www.blogger.com/profile/05910740292162569234

Esposito is afterall, an orientalist who has not had any traditional Islamic education therefore cannot be relied upon for information about Islam. He is also a supporter of Wahhabi extremism which ties in with the Zionist influenced ME forum. Wahhabism simply makes us look bad and Islamophobes love it.


Yet, Jafar, Mohamed and the first Muslims did indeed begin hostilities. I know you'll deny it, but they did.

As for my point about constant denigration of infidels, it proves we are lesser beings. Where is the peace and tolerance in that?

Anyway, I really can't be bothered talking to a brick wall.

Doesn't your holy book also put "infidels" in hellfire?

It is a warning. If you reject the message, your afterlife is going to be very unpleasant.


That's over the top. Your wording hints at my asserting that ALL the world's troubles can be laid at Islam's door .. which is absurd. MANY can, to be sure, but some, not.

This is also over the top in terms of the magnitude of problem associated with those Catholic priests. There weren't whole countries dominated by priest perversions ... we're not talking about some 'plague' of them assaulting entire communities ! The scale of Islamic terrorism in the world is very much larger (.. and deadlier, of course).

The problem with the priests is widespread and across many countries. It is every bit a plague. They are even holding a royal commission into the activities of the priests here in Australia.


Well, if you're fulfilling the entirety of the definition of 'Jihad' to be found within the Encyclopaedia Britannica ... rather more !

See ...

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/303857/jihad

Islam has no concept of holy war. Jihad is merely something that takes personal sacrifice to achieve. Walking to the Mosque at in the dark at 4am or 5am when it's freezing cold and you'd rather be rugged up in bed is one.

War is a kind of Jihad but referred to as a lesser Jihad by the Prophet Mohamed (saw). It's not easy being cannon fodder is it? It's even harder to control your inner self.


It goes on to talk of 'modern' Muslims waging inner war with one's self. As opposed, presumably, to previous generations of Muslims ... who'd find other ways (and people) to wage war with.

The spirit of Jihad is the war within oneself. My formative years as a Muslim were spent with Sufis so I know a bit about that.


Brain surgery has WHAT relevance to the material I posted ?? Just one you've invented, evidently.

Can you prove the site wrong in what it says, or not ?

The point is that you take Al Rasooli's ranting as an informed opinion about Islam. He is exactly the kind of person we are warned about. When you just read books and make your own decisions, you can turn radical. That was the subject of a recent friday sermon in fact. How Wahhabi doctrine of rejecting thousands of years of scholarly learning and self taught and self appointed Sheikhs (Like Anjem Choudary) leads to people going astray and becoming extremists. Al Rasooli is the same as Choudary. They have rejected Islam for their own radical and divergent doctrine.


Here's WikiIslam on that very verse, Jafar ....


Wikiislam is not a source of Islamic studies. It's a hate site. You know I'm going to reject that outright.

[jimnyc]

Poll results can easily be twisted and cherry picked. I will ignore the results.

Choosing to ignore is part of the problem in the Islamic world and something I have spoken out against for a long, long time. But ignoring doesn't change the results, nor does it stop violence. The collective blind eyes is what allows the violence to fester and the terrorism to propagate.

[Drummond]

The problem with the priests is widespread and across many countries. It is every bit a plague. They are even holding a royal commission into the activities of the priests here in Australia.

You're still overstating this ... and if you want to press the point, I suggest you supply actual numbers of Catholic priests across the world who are known to be guilty of such conduct.

Fact is, I think you're ramping up your case in order to achieve enough of a diversion away from the murkier issue of Islam being 'out of control'


Islam has no concept of holy war.

I just had to separate that one away from the rest of your statement .. it's such an astonishing suggestion !! Please tell me that you're not being serious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad


Warfare (Jihad bil Saif)Further information: Mujahideen, Jihadism and Jihad fi sabil Allah

Within classical Islamic jurisprudence—the development of which is to be dated into the first few centuries after the prophet's death[33]—jihad is the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law, and may consist in wars against unbelievers, apostates, rebels, highway robbers and dissenters renouncing the authority of Islam. The primary aim of jihad as warfare is not the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam by force, but rather the expansion and defense of the Islamic state. In later centuries, especially in the course of the colonization of large parts of the Muslim world, emphasis has been put on non-militant aspects of the jihad. Today, some Muslim authors only recognize wars with the aim of territorial defense as well as the defense of religious freedom as legitimate.[37]

Whether the Quran sanctions defensive warfare only or commands an all out war against non-Muslims depends on the interpretation of the relevant passages.This is because it does not explicitly state the aims of the war Muslims are obliged to wage; the passages concerning jihad rather aim at promoting fighters for the Islamic cause and do not discuss military ethics.

Jafar, reconcile THAT with your claim !!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/jihad_1.shtml


Jihad

The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war (http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/religious/holywar.shtml).
Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle:


A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible
The struggle to build a good Muslim society
Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/war.shtml), with force if necessary

Jafar ... if even the BBC, at its politically correct best, can openly state that holy war and Islam go together (!!!!), then surely YOU can !!!! to th
Jihad is merely something that takes personal sacrifice to achieve. Walking to the Mosque at in the dark at 4am or 5am when it's freezing cold and you'd rather be rugged up in bed is one.

This is, indeed, a modern interpretation. But it's, even now, only a part of the whole. There is also the interpretation, long-established, which you are - astonishingly - trying to DENY.


The point is that you take Al Rasooli's ranting as an informed opinion about Islam. He is exactly the kind of person we are warned about. When you just read books and make your own decisions, you can turn radical. That was the subject of a recent friday sermon in fact. How Wahhabi doctrine of rejecting thousands of years of scholarly learning and self taught and self appointed Sheikhs (Like Anjem Choudary) leads to people going astray and becoming extremists. Al Rasooli is the same as Choudary. They have rejected Islam for their own radical and divergent doctrine.

Here, you're 'treating' us to a form of cherrypicking. Choudary, Al Rasooli, these are people who contribute a part of the overall picture. And for the sake of trying to paint Islam in the most favourable light you can imagine, your task is so very difficult that you have to do an awful lot of disowning in order to get within a light year of managing it.

You may not like the parts they play. You may wish that their contributions don't exist. BUT THEY DO, and you need to acknowledge this if you expect to be seen as debating credibly.


Wikiislam is not a source of Islamic studies. It's a hate site. You know I'm going to reject that outright.

What a surprise. Who'd have guessed you'd say that !!!! :laugh::laugh::wink2:

[stevecanuck]

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar (2:106)


This verse has always amused me because it's self-contradictory. The phrase "substitute something better" is the very definition of abrogation. Jafar's god needs to enroll in a remedial language course.

[stevecanuck]

Poll results can easily be twisted and cherry picked. I will ignore the results.


Here's a perfect reason to ignore anything Jafar says. He simply refuses to accept anything that refutes his trips to Fantasy Land.


Let's remember this response if he ever posts the results of a poll.

[Drummond]

Here's a perfect reason to ignore anything Jafar says. He simply refuses to accept anything that refutes his trips to Fantasy Land.


Let's remember this response if he ever posts the results of a poll.



Couldn't agree more with your assessment. Jafar comes across as a propaganda machine for his sanitised version of Islam ... one a far cry from the truth. He just won't deviate from his preferred version .. no matter how much reason to do so comes his way.

[fj1200]

Pot... Kettle...

[jafar00]

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar (2:106)


This verse has always amused me because it's self-contradictory. The phrase "substitute something better" is the very definition of abrogation. Jafar's god needs to enroll in a remedial language course.




I forgive you for your lack of understanding and for your lack of moral judgement in attempting to insult God. Here is an example of what the verse means.

Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'aan. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.

Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. (25:32)

First, alcohol (and gambling) was still allowed but best avoided in order to avoid possible sin.

They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. (2:219)

Then, prayer while intoxicated was forbidden

O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter (4:43)

Finally, it was abolished completely.

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done? (5:90-91)

Can you see how the decree that banned alcohol was gradually introduced? Does that help you understand the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan? A decree can start in simple terms, and is then expanded upon at a later date.

It went from "you probably shouldn't", to "don't do this while you are praying", to "don't do it at all and this is why".

[Gaffer]

I forgive you for your lack of understanding and for your lack of moral judgement in attempting to insult God. Here is an example of what the verse means.

Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'aan. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.

Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. (25:32)

First, alcohol (and gambling) was still allowed but best avoided in order to avoid possible sin.

They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. (2:219)

Then, prayer while intoxicated was forbidden

O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter (4:43)

Finally, it was abolished completely.

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done? (5:90-91)

Can you see how the decree that banned alcohol was gradually introduced? Does that help you understand the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan? A decree can start in simple terms, and is then expanded upon at a later date.

It went from "you probably shouldn't", to "don't do this while you are praying", to "don't do it at all and this is why".

I see, so arabs had to be weaned off of all the bad things like killing people, taking slaves, having dozens of wives, cutting off body parts, stoning, the list goes on. I think they have fallen behind on a few things. The facts are old mo made his declarations based on what was happening at the time and whether he was pissed about something or happy. There are other examples of this sort of thing throughout history, most prominent being Joseph Smith.

A real god shouldn't have to abrogate anything, he/she/it would simply say, everything that went before is now null and void, here's the new rules. Old mo was a power hungry control freak who developed a way to get what he wanted. Then he died, poisoned by an old Jewish woman. His followers, dumb and dumber on steroids, tried to continue what he started and expand on it. To this day that 7th century mentality still reigns.

[Caliban]

I have trouble believing that ISIS or the Taliban would have had such a run of great success and victory if the broader population of the areas under their control were not mostly in sympathy with their views and aims.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have trouble believing that ISIS or the Taliban would have had such a run of great success and victory if the broader population of the areas under their control were not mostly in sympathy with their views and aims.
Just you wait. Soon the Muslim appeasers here will start snipping at your heels and then you can have some fun laughing at their idiocy. :laugh:

[Caliban]

Just you wait. Soon the Muslim appeasers here will start snipping at your heels and then you can have some fun laughing at their idiocy. :laugh:

Are there Muslims on this board?

[jimnyc]

Are there Muslims on this board?

Just one that I am aware of, the username "Jafar", even posted in this thread. He's a good guy though, a Muslim from Australia. Just polar opposite on some religious views and standings. A very decent fella though who represents the peaceful side of Islam.

[stevecanuck]

Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'an. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.



This may surprise you, Jafar, but I agree with you on this. It also explains fighting. At first fighting was only required in self-defense, but it eventually become mandatory and offensive in nature.


Glad you're finally seeing the light.

[Drummond]

Pot... Kettle...

Hey, thanks for the reminder, FJ !

One pot of tea about to be brewed ! Personally, I quite like the Earl Grey blend .. :laugh:

[jafar00]

I have trouble believing that ISIS or the Taliban would have had such a run of great success and victory if the broader population of the areas under their control were not mostly in sympathy with their views and aims.

Would you have less trouble believing that the people support the only because if they didn't they would be dead?

Fear is a great motivator.


This may surprise you, Jafar, but I agree with you on this. It also explains fighting. At first fighting was only required in self-defense, but it eventually become mandatory and offensive in nature.


Glad you're finally seeing the light.



Fighting never became mandatory nor offensive and always within strict limits. If someone started a fight or went out of these limits, the sin is on their heads.


Hey, thanks for the reminder, FJ !

One pot of tea about to be brewed ! Personally, I quite like the Earl Grey blend .. :laugh:

We have something in common. A love of Earl Grey. I have a local shop called T2 which has hundreds of blends.

[Drummond]

... Er'm. NO, Jafar .. this will not do !

I believe I can justly assert that you're being disingenuous in this post of yours, below .....


I forgive you for your lack of understanding and for your lack of moral judgement in attempting to insult God. Here is an example of what the verse means.

Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'aan. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.

Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. (25:32)

First, alcohol (and gambling) was still allowed but best avoided in order to avoid possible sin.

They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. (2:219)

Then, prayer while intoxicated was forbidden

O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter (4:43)

Finally, it was abolished completely.

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done? (5:90-91)

Can you see how the decree that banned alcohol was gradually introduced? Does that help you understand the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan? A decree can start in simple terms, and is then expanded upon at a later date.

It went from "you probably shouldn't", to "don't do this while you are praying", to "don't do it at all and this is why".

I have made the case -- and I'm making it again, now, with this reply !! -- that abrogation in the Quran is simply the process whereby one verse (or maybe a group of them) are nullified by something added later. That's the beginning and the end of the point of abrogation, no matter how you try and spin this.

And you ARE spinning this ! I am about to prove my point.

Judging by your 'analysis', the beginning of the question of alcohol consumption in the Quran was that of starting to wean Muslims off of it ?? Is this what you're claiming ? That the whole, entire process was one of the Quran, in phased fashion (perhaps to be 'kind ?), incrementally arranging the abolition of alcohol consumption as an overall, planned, objective ?

Well ....NO.

Jafar, I've covered this more than once on this forum already ! Let me remind you of this following piece, originating from 'Arrsepedia' ('ARRSE' in this case being a contraction of 'Army Rumour Service', a website run by the British Army ...).

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Koran

An extract from their piece on the Quran, as follows ...


Rather like a bad Quentin Tarantino film, the Koran is arranged in no meaningful order. It contains 114 Suras, the first of which is, logically enough, called "The Opening". The other 113 are ranged not in any meaningful chronological order, in which they have to be interpreted, but in decreasing order of length.But why is the order so important? Well, Mohammed, I mean God, liked to change his mind. These changes of mind, properly called " abrogations", conveniently happened whenever Mohammed was having problems with things he, I mean God, had previously decreed. For instance, Mohammed, I mean God, decreed that believers could have four wives. But our Mo wanted a few more, so there is a sudden revelation that Mohammed can have more, indeed as many as he liked. But of course this revelation explicitly only provides Mohammed with the exception, and not the rest of the believers.

Alcohol is another case in point - 16:67 accepts it, then 4:43 prohibits turning up to worship drunk, and finally 5:90 prohibits it. Perhaps the most relevant abrogation today relates to attitudes towards nonbelievers (including the "people of the book") - the so-called Verse of the Sword, 9:5, aggregates and therefore cancels out no fewer than 124 more peaceful and tolerant verses, including the famous "there is no compulsion in religion" (which appears chronologically earlier). The vast majority of Islamic scholars agree that Sura 9 was chronologically the last to be "revealed", and - shock horror - an awful lot of the really nasty stuff appears in this sura and cancels out anything it contradicts!
See that, Jafar ? '16:67 accepts it'

Do you get that ?

And THIS is the TRUTH. What we REALLY have, here, is a total reversal, an about-turn, on the matter of alcohol consumption. From outright ACCEPTANCE, decreed and initially legitimised by Quranic teaching, to an outright BAN. This is typical of Quranic abrogation, where at one point something's accepted as OK, then subsequently another verse reverses it entirely, negating the preceding pronouncement, rendering it devoid of authority.

Jafar, on the issue of alcohol, this is all about a total change of mind, one which came about out of what was preferred at any one time. As 'Arrsepedia' says - flippantly, maybe, BUT ALSO ACCURATELY, your Mohammed liked to change his mind on issues, according to what he found most convenient at any one time.

Shall we see what the first verse actually said ? It's rather revealing, in its way. Get a load of this ....

http://quran.com/16/67


And from the fruits of the palm trees and grapevines you take intoxicant and good provision. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who reason

Interesting, eh, Jafar ? Now, I think it's somewhat obvious from this that, if anything, the Quran can be said to be ENCOURAGING alcohol intake. By no stretch of the imagination is it even hinting at DIScouragement !!!!!

It's certainly a far cry from the later abrogations, wouldn't you say ??

This is what you claimed in your post ....


Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'aan. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.
.. so. RECONCILE THIS WITH 16:67 !!!

As I said, I've covered this before. A long time ago. Here is, I think, a link to the first time that I did ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37148-How-Khomeini-founder-of-the-Islamic-Republic-condemns-pedophilia&p=582289#post582289

Thumb down the post this leads to. You'll find the 'Arrsepedia' quote included there. I was replying to one of your posts at the time.

Here's where I did so AGAIN ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?39842-James-Holmes-Muslim-Now-Really&p=626657#post626657

Here, Jafar, is a post of YOURS, from last year, answering yet another of the postings I'd made from the 'Arrsepedia' piece ... NOTE .. YOU ANSWERED THIS THEN ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?42341-State-Department-Blasts-Enemies-of-Islam&p=657853#post657853

1667

From Tafsir Al Tustari

And of the fruits of date-palms and vines from which you draw wine and goodly provision.He [Abū Bakr al-Sijzī] said, ‘This verse was abrogated by the verse on wine (khamr). Ibrāhīm and Shuʿabī also said this.’ Sahl said:As far as I am concerned, wine (sakar) is anything which intoxicates the lower self (nafs) in this world, and for which it [the nafs] does not believe it will be punished in the Hereafter.Abū Ḥamza al-Ṣūfī visited Sahl and he asked him: ‘Where have you been, Abū Ḥamza?’ He replied, ‘We were with such and such a person who informed us that intoxication is of four kinds.’ He said, ‘Tell me what they are.’ [Abū Ḥamza continued], ‘The intoxication of drink, the intoxication of youth, the intoxication of wealth and the intoxication of authority.’ Sahl replied, ‘There are two kinds of intoxication which he did not inform you about.’ He asked, ‘What are they?’ and Sahl answered, ‘The intoxication of the scholar who loves this world, and the intoxication of the worshipper who loves to be noticed.

You see, Jafar .. I've repeatedly quoted Arrsepedia's 'Koran' posting before. And the above quote PROVES that you were well aware of 16:67, a long while ago. So your current spin of 'Arabs got drunk a lot before Islam. Instead of having them go cold turkey and go through hardship to give it up, it was gradually phased out in the Qur'aan. Many things were gradually revealed to us so as to make it easier for us to adapt.'

.... JUST DOESN'T HOLD UP TO SCRUTINY, DOES IT, JAFAR ?

[Drummond]

We have something in common. A love of Earl Grey. I have a local shop called T2 which has hundreds of blends.

Interesting. I picked up mine from my purchases from Twinings, in the Strand, London, WC2. I'd guess that you know the shop yourself, as you once posted that you worked yourself in the WC2 area ...

[fj1200]

Hey, thanks for the reminder, FJ !

A Brit needs to be reminded to have tea? Well, I guess "Brits" do. :dunno:

I've got to ask though, did you truly miss the point of my post?

[NightTrain]

Just one that I am aware of, the username "Jafar", even posted in this thread. He's a good guy though, a Muslim from Australia. Just polar opposite on some religious views and standings. A very decent fella though who represents the peaceful side of Islam.


I don't think he's evil, but he does suffer a lack of honesty and willingly promotes easily disproven lies fed to the ignorant peasant masses in the Middle East.

I believe he's either fully engaged in Taqqiya and Kitman, or he's being duped by his local muslim authority who Jafar relies upon to translate the Koran and the verses' meanings.

The fact that he refuses to acknowledge any legitimate information that he doesn't like, whether historical or modern events, tells me he's engaged in Taqqiya / Kitman with us.

And that's a shame, because you can't have a meaningful conversation with someone if you already know beforehand that they will lie & distort in order to put a shining face on an issue that has many ugly sides to it.

Personally, I would love to engage in a deep, meaningful conversation with an honest muslim, because I have many questions about the faith... I'm a naturally curious person.

Jim, you said you know an honest muslim there in NYC, try to get him to come on here.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Are there Muslims on this board?

Yes, Jafar but he is not really a problem the big problem is dumbass American appeasers that support our known enemies that will one day murder them and all of us if possible. And yes we have a few such appeasers here!!!!--Tyr

[Drummond]

A Brit needs to be reminded to have tea? Well, I guess "Brits" do. :dunno:

I've got to ask though, did you truly miss the point of my post?

Correction: you didn't have to ask ...:lol9:

[stevecanuck]

Fighting never became mandatory.....



Then I suppose these verses are all actually invitations to tea:

2:191 - Kill (qatl) them wherever you find them...
2:216 - fighting (qatl) is obligatory for you...
4:74 - ...whoever fights (qatl) in the way of Allah, and is killed (qatl) or conquers, We shall give him a great wage.
4:76 - And those who believe fight (qatl) in the way of Allah,...
4:84 - Therefore, fight (qatl) in the way of Allah.
4:95 - Believers who stay behind, having no injury, are not equal to those who fight (jihad) in the way of Allah...
8:65 - O Prophet, urge the believers to fight (qatl).
9:5 - ...slay (qatl) the idolaters wherever you find them...
9:29 - Fight (qatl) those who neither believe in Allah...
9:30 - Allah fights (qatl) them! How perverted are they!
9:36 - ...and fight (qatl) against the unbelievers...
9:41 - ...and fight (jihad) for the Way of Allah...
9:111 - They fight (qatl) in the Way of Allah, slay (qatl) and are slain (qatl)...
9:123 - Believers, fight (qatl) the unbelievers who are near you...
33:60, 61 - If the hypocrites and those who have a disease in their hearts, and those who make a commotion in the City do not desist, We will surely urge you against them. Then they will be your neighbors for only a little (while), cursed wherever they are found, they will be seized and put to death (qatl).
61:4 - Allah loves those who fight (qatl) in His Way lining up as if they were a stacked building.

Let the phoney "out of context" bleating begin.

[fj1200]

Correction: you didn't have to ask ...

You're right, I didn't have to ask. I know you're not capable of understanding your own failures. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Then I suppose these verses are all actually invitations to tea:

2:191 - Kill (qatl) them wherever you find them...
2:216 - fighting (qatl) is obligatory for you...
4:74 - ...whoever fights (qatl) in the way of Allah, and is killed (qatl) or conquers, We shall give him a great wage.
4:76 - And those who believe fight (qatl) in the way of Allah,...
4:84 - Therefore, fight (qatl) in the way of Allah.
4:95 - Believers who stay behind, having no injury, are not equal to those who fight (jihad) in the way of Allah...
8:65 - O Prophet, urge the believers to fight (qatl).
9:5 - ...slay (qatl) the idolaters wherever you find them...
9:29 - Fight (qatl) those who neither believe in Allah...
9:30 - Allah fights (qatl) them! How perverted are they!
9:36 - ...and fight (qatl) against the unbelievers...
9:41 - ...and fight (jihad) for the Way of Allah...
9:111 - They fight (qatl) in the Way of Allah, slay (qatl) and are slain (qatl)...
9:123 - Believers, fight (qatl) the unbelievers who are near you...
33:60, 61 - If the hypocrites and those who have a disease in their hearts, and those who make a commotion in the City do not desist, We will surely urge you against them. Then they will be your neighbors for only a little (while), cursed wherever they are found, they will be seized and put to death (qatl).
61:4 - Allah loves those who fight (qatl) in His Way lining up as if they were a stacked building.

Let the phoney "out of context" bleating begin.

3 DAYS, NO REPLY , I WONDER WHY....- :laugh:Tyr

[fj1200]

^Because same ol' same ol'?

[jimnyc]

3 DAYS, NO REPLY , I WONDER WHY....- :laugh:Tyr

In fairness, Ramadan started a few days back and I think Jafar is taking a bit of a rest to share the blessings with his family. I'm sure in less than a month the hostilities will return to normal! :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

In fairness, Ramadan started a few days back and I think Jafar is taking a bit of a rest to share the blessings with his family. I'm sure in less than a month the hostilities will return to normal! :)

Sure, he can rest from his lying, sanitizing campaign to come back renewed and full of vigor to champion and continue to mislead infidels on the truth of the brutality, savagery and world domination campaign of his cult.-Tyr

[aboutime]

http://icansayit.com/images/xmas1.gifRAMADAN is the perfect excuse to avoid being blamed for terror, beheadings, and murder.

Propaganda is how I see it. Anyone happen to know when the last CHRISTMAS day was set aside by terrorists to FAST, or spend time with fellow Terrorists?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You're right, I didn't have to ask. I know you're not capable of understanding your own failures. :)

mirror, mirror on the wall...................................;)

[fj1200]

mirror, mirror on the wall...................................;)

I welcome you to try and point one out. And I'm not the one running or hiding behind "ignore." ;)