Iraq

[Gaffer]

AQ is sure on the run. The same guys fighting in syria are now conquering iraq, one city at a time.

History loves to repeat itself, especially when the democrats help it so much. 1975 comes to mind.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10892299/Iraq-crisis-al-Qaeda-forces-seize-Mosul-and-Tikrit-as-it-happened.html

Very little being covered by the govt media.

[aboutime]

Gaffer. Maybe this will help refresh some minds who always whine, speaking from their butt's.

http://icansayit.com/images/cutrun.jpg

[Gaffer]

Watching the Kelly File and she was covering the iraq stuff. This is amazing. The administration is doing absolutely nothing as ISIS moves through the country and surrounds Baghdad. It's mind boggling. These guys are so bad even AQ won't have anything to do with them.

Turkey has called for a meeting of NATO and has said any harm to Turkish citizens will face hard retaliation.

I'm guessing iran is likely to step in here at some point which will give them the excuse to occupy iraq just as they always wanted.

[jafar00]

What I would like to know is where this ISIS mob is getting their support and funding especially since AQ disowned them for being too extreme (Pot, Kettle, Black).

[gabosaurus]

We were stupid to meddle in Iraq in the first place. The country never wanted to be a democracy. We took over the country (at great expense) and installed a corrupt government that didn't know it's head from its ass. We rearmed the Iraqi military and taught them basic tactics (again at great expense). So what happened the first time they needed to fight a battle? They abandoned their weapons and ran, leaving everyone to be recovered by AQ.
Iraq, like all the Middle East, is a worthless piece of desert that is better left to the only people who actually want it. The country was better off under the rule of a raving lunatic who was all bark and no bite. Nobody cared about Iraq until some brainless and spineless idiot became president and wanted revenge for the blowhard bad mouthing his daddy.
If you fought in Iraq, got injured in Iraq or lost someone over there, you know who to blame for it. The guy who will forever have blood on his hands.

[Gaffer]

What I would like to know is where this ISIS mob is getting their support and funding especially since AQ disowned them for being too extreme (Pot, Kettle, Black).

Initially? See Benghazi. Also see arms supplied to fight assad. Now as they move through iraq they are taking equipment from the iraq army who, just like in 2003, are shedding their uniforms and disappearing into the population. That seems to be the one tactic the iraq army excels in.

[Drummond]

We were stupid to meddle in Iraq in the first place. The country never wanted to be a democracy. We took over the country (at great expense) and installed a corrupt government that didn't know it's head from its ass. We rearmed the Iraqi military and taught them basic tactics (again at great expense). So what happened the first time they needed to fight a battle? They abandoned their weapons and ran, leaving everyone to be recovered by AQ.
Iraq, like all the Middle East, is a worthless piece of desert that is better left to the only people who actually want it. The country was better off under the rule of a raving lunatic who was all bark and no bite. Nobody cared about Iraq until some brainless and spineless idiot became president and wanted revenge for the blowhard bad mouthing his daddy.
If you fought in Iraq, got injured in Iraq or lost someone over there, you know who to blame for it. The guy who will forever have blood on his hands.

This is so ridiculous that it barely merits an answer.

You say 'the country never wanted to be a democracy' ... yet, in the first democratic election there, post-Saddam, people braved death threats in their hundreds of thousands (and more !) to vote.

I suppose the terrorist-supporting tyrant otherwise known as Saddam Hussein should've been left to his own devices ? To SUCCESSFULLY defy the UN, so manage to teach tinpot dictators everywhere that they can amass WMD arsenals to their hearts' content, and know they can get away with it ???

Today ... we learn of alarming news coming out of Iraq. So tell me. Does this argue for the WISDOM of troop withdrawals, as the Leftie likes of Obama arranged, or ITS EXACT OPPOSITE ??

Face this fact. Left-wing irresponsibility, today, is helping to make the world a more dangerous place, with terrorism given MORE opportunities to thrive because of it.

[Jeff]

This is so ridiculous that it barely merits an answer.

You say 'the country never wanted to be a democracy' ... yet, in the first democratic election there, post-Saddam, people braved death threats in their hundreds of thousands (and more !) to vote.

I suppose the terrorist-supporting tyrant otherwise known as Saddam Hussein should've been left to his own devices ? To SUCCESSFULLY defy the UN, so manage to teach tinpot dictators everywhere that they can amass WMD arsenals to their hearts' content, and know they can get away with it ???

Today ... we learn of alarming news coming out of Iraq. So tell me. Does this argue for the WISDOM of troop withdrawals, as the Leftie likes of Obama arranged, or ITS EXACT OPPOSITE ??

Face this fact. Left-wing irresponsibility, today, is helping to make the world a more dangerous place, with terrorism given MORE opportunities to thrive because of it.



:trolls:

Drummond she got you this time, she post her nonsense just to get someone to bite, sad very sad.

[gabosaurus]

Does anyone expect us to occupy Iraq for all eternity? How many times do their people have to slap us in the face before we realize that they don't really want us there?
If the Iraqi people supported democracy, they would fight to uphold it. Instead of turning tail and hiding under rocks. The U.S. gave them arms, trained their military and set up infrastructure. The Iraqis thanked up by turning their backs.
What is happening now affirms the absolute idiocy of going there in the first place. If our country had intelligent leadership during that time, we would not have made that mistake.

[aboutime]

We were stupid to meddle in Iraq in the first place. The country never wanted to be a democracy. We took over the country (at great expense) and installed a corrupt government that didn't know it's head from its ass. We rearmed the Iraqi military and taught them basic tactics (again at great expense). So what happened the first time they needed to fight a battle? They abandoned their weapons and ran, leaving everyone to be recovered by AQ.
Iraq, like all the Middle East, is a worthless piece of desert that is better left to the only people who actually want it. The country was better off under the rule of a raving lunatic who was all bark and no bite. Nobody cared about Iraq until some brainless and spineless idiot became president and wanted revenge for the blowhard bad mouthing his daddy.
If you fought in Iraq, got injured in Iraq or lost someone over there, you know who to blame for it. The guy who will forever have blood on his hands.


Gabby. I WOULD BLAME YOU, and anyone who talks just like you.
We all know you hate Bush. Just like Obama...who, by the way. Now finds himself nearly in the same predicament when it comes to Iraq. Difference is. BUSH wasn't responsible for any of what you said above. Mindless Liberals like you wanted to run the show, and convinced yourselves that Iraq could fend for itself by ANNOUNCING when our troops would be leaving. Just like Afghanistan.
Mindless Liberals like you always find ways to blame others for your STUPIDITY.

[Drummond]

:trolls:

Drummond she got you this time, she post her nonsense just to get someone to bite, sad very sad.:laugh::laugh:

Guilty as charged ....

As some of us might say in my part of the world - 'It's A Fair Cop, Guv'.

I'm standing by with a bucket of water to chuck over myself the next time 'round.

[Drummond]

What I would like to know is where this ISIS mob is getting their support and funding especially since AQ disowned them for being too extreme (Pot, Kettle, Black).

Your tally of 'They're Not Really Muslims' appears to be growing by the day, Jafar .. ;)

[Jeff]

Does anyone expect us to occupy Iraq for all eternity? How many times do their people have to slap us in the face before we realize that they don't really want us there?
If the Iraqi people supported democracy, they would fight to uphold it. Instead of turning tail and hiding under rocks. The U.S. gave them arms, trained their military and set up infrastructure. The Iraqis thanked up by turning their backs.
What is happening now affirms the absolute idiocy of going there in the first place. If our country had intelligent leadership during that time, we would not have made that mistake.

Gabby at this point it sounds like Obama is going to have to make a tough decision as well, now of course Iraq at this point isn't strapping bombs to kids backs to kill our troops nor are they offering families money to do so but Obama still has a tough choice, my question is if Obama does use air strikes will you hate him as well now ?

[gabosaurus]

Gabby at this point it sounds like Obama is going to have to make a tough decision as well, now of course Iraq at this point isn't strapping bombs to kids backs to kill our troops nor are they offering families money to do so but Obama still has a tough choice, my question is if Obama does use air strikes will you hate him as well now ?

If he does anything, it will be inappropriate. We owe Iraq nothing. If they wish to give away their country to terrorists, let them do so. The miserable piece of desert has cost far more U.S. casualties that it will ever be worth.

[Jeff]

If he does anything, it will be inappropriate. We owe Iraq nothing. If they wish to give away their country to terrorists, let them do so. The miserable piece of desert has cost far more U.S. casualties that it will ever be worth.

Fair enough Ms. Gabs, Honestly I am not real sure how I feel, on one hand I feel almost like you do and on the other I think when we went in we knew it was going to be for the long haul and being we where there we have made things worst, but of course putting our troops back in harms way keeps me going back to my first thought. :confused:

[Gaffer]

Don't worry about a thing. iran is going to handle it. They are already moving revolutionary guard and qods forces into the area to stop the advance. Just another civil war with iran pulling all the strings.

[CSM]

Iraq will fall; of that I have no doubt. The UN, NATO and a few nation states will stand by and watch it happen. All the while they will be wringing their collective hands and saying "Somebody should do something!" A good many in the Islamic world will secretly rejoice, some Arab countries will talk tough and do nothing. The US (under the leadership of the current administration) will flail about and accomplish nothing.

We can all argue and debate about who is responsible and why it happened but, in the end, the world will have a terrorist super-base in its midst. Nothing will be done about that terrorist "superpower" as every other nation on the planet watches and waits for somebody else to "do something". Then (perhaps when it is too little, too late) all those who stood idly by will begin to mobilize. That particular action won't happen until many years have passed and much blood and treasure is lost.

[jimnyc]

Iraq will fall; of that I have no doubt. The UN, NATO and a few nation states will stand by and watch it happen. All the while they will be wringing their collective hands and saying "Somebody should do something!"

This was kinda my point in another thread about who is responsible for terrorists. If the USA doesn't help in Iraq, will anyone else? We'll send in a few strikes and drones over the next few months, but they'll fall anyway.

[CSM]

This was kinda my point in another thread about who is responsible for terrorists. If the USA doesn't help in Iraq, will anyone else? We'll send in a few strikes and drones over the next few months, but they'll fall anyway.

Yep. NATO has already stated that they will do nothing, as has the UN. Obama and his lackeys have no clue on this and really have no interest anyway (except as it affects politics). Russia and China are just waiting to see what happens ( I bet this will indicate to them that the US has finally ceased being a superpower!) and Europe will do what they have always done ... nothing. Arab states like Saudi Arabia will be wary but not do anything unless directly threatened. Israel is probably notching up their defenses knowing that not one nation on the planet will lift a finger to help them.

[jimnyc]

Congress's Iraq Vets Helplessly Watch Their Gains Lost "What was the point of all that?" Perry asks of U.S. action as Mosul and Tikrit fall to extremists.



Americans are tired of war. For the 17 members of Congress who served in Iraq, that means watching helplessly as the cities they fought for fall once more to extremists.

Militants believed to be associated with al-Qaida overtook Mosul, the second-largest city in Iraq, on Tuesday. The group then seized Tikrit, hometown of former President Saddam Hussein, on Wednesday.

Three Republican congressmen who served in Iraq—Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, Doug Collins of Georgia, and Brad Wenstrup of Ohio—said it feels like the progress they made has been thrown away.

"Going out across the desert I remember the feelings that you have, wondering if you're going to make it out alive," Perry said. "Right now I wonder what that was all about. What was the point of all of that?"

A security agreement was what Perry, Collins, and Wenstrup wanted to see come out of the war, one that would allow U.S. troops to remain involved in the region when the enemy—thought to be the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria—returned.

"We have an enemy today that senses weakness, knows how to find it, and then goes after it," Wenstrup said. "I think Iraq maybe thought they could [defend themselves]. This was an opportunity for us to have another ally in the region. I came home from Iraq feeling that we liberated 25 million people."

But that freedom is in jeopardy, Wenstrup said, if Iraqi citizens cannot or will not fight back.

And none of the congressmen thought there was much the United States could do.

"I think at this point the administration made a choice to cut and run," Collins said. "When Fallujah fell again, we knew this foreign policy had consequences. Aside from an intervention, which I don't think is on anybody's mind, Iraq is going to have defend for itself. At this point we'll see if the Iraqi security forces are capable."

Fallujah fell to militants in January. The city was taken by U.S. forces in late 2004 at the cost of more than 100 American soldiers' lives, the bloodiest battle of the Iraq War.

The Obama administration acknowledges the setbacks in Iraq.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/congress-s-iraq-vets-helplessly-watch-their-gains-lost-20140611

[NightTrain]

Yep. NATO has already stated that they will do nothing, as has the UN. Obama and his lackeys have no clue on this and really have no interest anyway (except as it affects politics). Russia and China are just waiting to see what happens ( I bet this will indicate to them that the US has finally ceased being a superpower!) and Europe will do what they have always done ... nothing. Arab states like Saudi Arabia will be wary but not do anything unless directly threatened. Israel is probably notching up their defenses knowing that not one nation on the planet will lift a finger to help them.


Exactly right. With our feckless foreign policy displayed by Obama driving in circles, the world is a much more volatile place now. Putin's Russia knows they can do pretty much whatever they want with land grabs of neighbors, and things will get a whole lot more dangerous when China begins to do the same.

Israel is in a precarious position because they know we don't have the leadership to back her up as things unravel in the middle east, and anyone that knows history knows that another military confrontation between her and her neighbors is very likely. The only thing saving her now is most of them are embroiled in their own civil wars or at least fighting the beginnings of one.

And the EU won't do anything either as things continue to devolve.

Hopefully the world will hold on til 2016 when we can field a competent leader... the world has gone to hell since 2008 and it's getting worse.

[NightTrain]

Don't worry about a thing. iran is going to handle it. They are already moving revolutionary guard and qods forces into the area to stop the advance. Just another civil war with iran pulling all the strings.


I have no doubt that Iran is involved behind the scenes with the destabilization of Iraq.

The last thing Iran wants is a functional democracy right next door, because as the Iraqi middle class emerges the peasants in Iran will see what's going on and want some of that freedom - and that's how massive revolts start and the mullahs running the show get hacked to bloody pieces in the streets as the peasants overthrow the government.

So it's in their very best interests that Iraq fails... because if it succeeds, the ruling class will see a richly deserved, brutal end in a civil war.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Congress's Iraq Vets Helplessly Watch Their Gains Lost "What was the point of all that?" Perry asks of U.S. action as Mosul and Tikrit fall to extremists.



Americans are tired of war. For the 17 members of Congress who served in Iraq, that means watching helplessly as the cities they fought for fall once more to extremists.

Militants believed to be associated with al-Qaida overtook Mosul, the second-largest city in Iraq, on Tuesday. The group then seized Tikrit, hometown of former President Saddam Hussein, on Wednesday.

Three Republican congressmen who served in Iraq—Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, Doug Collins of Georgia, and Brad Wenstrup of Ohio—said it feels like the progress they made has been thrown away.

"Going out across the desert I remember the feelings that you have, wondering if you're going to make it out alive," Perry said. "Right now I wonder what that was all about. What was the point of all of that?"

A security agreement was what Perry, Collins, and Wenstrup wanted to see come out of the war, one that would allow U.S. troops to remain involved in the region when the enemy—thought to be the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria—returned.

"We have an enemy today that senses weakness, knows how to find it, and then goes after it," Wenstrup said. "I think Iraq maybe thought they could [defend themselves]. This was an opportunity for us to have another ally in the region. I came home from Iraq feeling that we liberated 25 million people."

But that freedom is in jeopardy, Wenstrup said, if Iraqi citizens cannot or will not fight back.

And none of the congressmen thought there was much the United States could do.

"I think at this point the administration made a choice to cut and run," Collins said. "When Fallujah fell again, we knew this foreign policy had consequences. Aside from an intervention, which I don't think is on anybody's mind, Iraq is going to have defend for itself. At this point we'll see if the Iraqi security forces are capable."

Fallujah fell to militants in January. The city was taken by U.S. forces in late 2004 at the cost of more than 100 American soldiers' lives, the bloodiest battle of the Iraq War.

The Obama administration acknowledges the setbacks in Iraq.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/congress-s-iraq-vets-helplessly-watch-their-gains-lost-20140611

Obama was installed for the purpose of giving back Islam its losses!!!
Fact..-Tyr

[fj1200]

Oh geez. :rolleyes:

[Drummond]

I have to ask, though: how would Americans view Iraq turning into an equivalent of Afghanistan, circa 2001 ?

I absolutely get that America is sick of fighting wars, sick of fighting so-called 'extremists' ... but naturally. After all, the rest of the world has, by and large, just sat back and let you get on with it, unwilling to take its share of the burden.

I have the utmost sympathy with you on that score.

All that said .. a new terrorist-controlled territory invites not only the establishment of a new terrorist training base, but also the prospect of terrorists believing that, this time around, there'll be no will to combat them. Morale will be higher, on the side of your enemies, than ever before.

Do you view the likelihood of future 9/11's as, therefore, ultimately unavoidable ? SHOULD you ?

I see that, already, we have one Leftie believing that Iraq should be left alone. Would that, or other, Lefties be happy to resign themselves to future terrorist slaughters should Iraq truly become Afghanistan #2 ?

[NightTrain]

No, it should absolutely not be allowed to fall.

And that means sending in more troops to hold the peace - after killing the terrorists, which by this time will be entrenched and hiding in cities again, making it a bloody and painful affair.

It doesn't appear that the citizens are armed or have the will to defend their country from the terrorists advancing, reports have them leaving in droves of hundreds of thousands. Why aren't they fighting for their homes and cities?

I realize that Arabs haven't displayed any aptitude for large scale battles in modern history, but a country full of armed citizens should easily be able to deal with the invading terrorists. Especially when it's their home turf and have local knowledge of the terrain and most importantly, can spot the bad guys a hell of a lot easier than Americans can.

Obama won't commit to a ground campaign, even if he wanted to - he's painted himself into a corner. The most he'll do now is send a few airstrikes, IMO.

By the way, these terrorists are the same ones that Obama was assisting in Syria... how thoughtful of him.

[aboutime]

http://icansayit.com/images/cutandrun2.jpg http://icansayit.com/images/cutrun.jpg

COWARDS in Congress, and the WHITE HOUSE pretend they care, and want to FREE people around the world. Like Nixon did in Vietnam, and Obama did in Iraq...soon to do in Afghanistan.
AND OBAMA PRETENDS he is such a hero.
Just ask the families of Americans who gave their LIVES...to make Obama, and Nixon hero's.

[Nukeman]

Here's a question for the current "administration". They tape EVERY FREAKING conversation coming in and out of our allies countries yet the hot bed of terrorism is silent. What I mean is how can we have the "top notch" surveillance and NO ONE KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN!?!?!?!?!

Do we all really think that this administration didn't have an idea this was about to happen. has this admin reduced our intel in this region to such pitiful levels that we didn't know a full fledged take-over was about to happen????

They (Obama) are so worried about "right wing" extremist and they allow this to happen. This POS needs to get his priorities straight!! We will pay for this for a long time to come in higher energy prices at the pump and electric meter.

If anyone doesn't think this is being orchestrated they are fooling themselves. This is for the down fall of the US!!!!!!!:poke:

[aboutime]

Here's a question for the current "administration". They tape EVERY FREAKING conversation coming in and out of our allies countries yet the hot bed of terrorism is silent. What I mean is how can we have the "top notch" surveillance and NO ONE KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN!?!?!?!?!

Do we all really think that this administration didn't have an idea this was about to happen. has this admin reduced our intel in this region to such pitiful levels that we didn't know a full fledged take-over was about to happen????

They (Obama) are so worried about "right wing" extremist and they allow this to happen. This POS needs to get his priorities straight!! We will pay for this for a long time to come in higher energy prices at the pump and electric meter.

If anyone doesn't think this is being orchestrated they are fooling themselves. This is for the down fall of the US!!!!!!!:poke:



Nukeman. I read somewhere today that the WHITE HOUSE was asked for help SIX MONTHS ago from Iraq. They knew what was about to take place, and Obama had more important things to do on the GOLF COURSE in Hawaii.

[CSM]

Nukeman. I read somewhere today that the WHITE HOUSE was asked for help SIX MONTHS ago from Iraq. They knew what was about to take place, and Obama had more important things to do on the GOLF COURSE in Hawaii.

Actually, Iraq has been asking for assistance for over a year now.

[aboutime]

Actually, Iraq has been asking for assistance for over a year now.


Thanks. I stand corrected. That is what I heard today. Six months.
Matters not. Obama and the Dems in Congress wanted to pull all of our troops out. They were told, there would be an 'open door', or vacuum created if we didn't leave some forces there.

We can all pretend..as Obama says "Our wars are over"..while Americans die, or somebody steps forward to prevent a REBURN of Iraq.

Either way. The American people who claim to have 'BURN-OUT' can make a decision. As George W. Bush once said: "We can fight them over there, or fight them here!"

Too bad our nation has fallen to the NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN cowardice factor, with a Military that has been CASTRATED.

[red state]

I have to ask, though: how would Americans view Iraq turning into an equivalent of Afghanistan, circa 2001 ?

I absolutely get that America is sick of fighting wars, sick of fighting so-called 'extremists' ... but naturally. After all, the rest of the world has, by and large, just sat back and let you get on with it, unwilling to take its share of the burden.

I have the utmost sympathy with you on that score.

All that said .. a new terrorist-controlled territory invites not only the establishment of a new terrorist training base, but also the prospect of terrorists believing that, this time around, there'll be no will to combat them. Morale will be higher, on the side of your enemies, than ever before.

Do you view the likelihood of future 9/11's as, therefore, ultimately unavoidable ? SHOULD you ?

I see that, already, we have one Leftie believing that Iraq should be left alone. Would that, or other, Lefties be happy to resign themselves to future terrorist slaughters should Iraq truly become Afghanistan #2 ?

Yes, we Americans are sick and tired of sending our best in harm's way for folks who seemingly want nothing to do with freedom if it costs them. They ran when Bush Sr. sent in the troops and they are running now. These cowards are all for ganging up on those who think differently than they do and they have no problem chunking rocks at women but when it comes to fighting, they'd rather still hide behind women and children....and if I may remind everyone, it was mostly the women who stuck their neck our and voted after Sad H. was overthrown.

As for other 9/11 attacks, I have no doubt that all of this will lead up to more and more of them but it'll be in other countries first. They have learned to spread their disease one step at a time....one border at a time and Great Britain will be one of the next victims within the next 10 years. At least some of the other European Nations have wised up (a little). Still, I have mixed feelings about whether or not we should send troops. I'm truly ready for them to come on home.....it's been too long and we've been responsible for something that they world (those closest to the threat) should take responsibility for. I will say this, however, I'd rather take every ship, plane, troop we have with every bit of technology and focus it on our shores and borders before scattering our resources abroad where it doesn't seem to be appreciated. It is a LOSE/LOSE situation the way we've been doing things and we don't know what all has crossed our border in the last several years. I'm shocked that we haven't seen other 9/ll attacks but I'm certainly glad that the 'sleepers' have been patient or are none-existent for the most part.

In closing, no one president will fix what has been going on the past 25+ years of weak leadership and I doubt very seriously that we get the 5 or 6 Washingtons or the majority of Senate/Congress that will be needed to help undo the last few years under B.O. God help us is all I can say but it's time to start taking care of ourselves, get the assembly lines going HERE again and time to secure our borders. We will survive ONLY if we do these simple things under true leadership. It is time for Europe to do the same and always remember how poorly they performed before WWII when we had to come in and rescue the world. Save thyself.

[jafar00]

Your tally of 'They're Not Really Muslims' appears to be growing by the day, Jafar .. ;)

If it looks like a duck, but doesn't swim like a duck, and doesn't quack like a duck, then it probably isn't a duck.

[Drummond]

If it looks like a duck, but doesn't swim like a duck, and doesn't quack like a duck, then it probably isn't a duck.

Well, quite, Jafar. No doubt it's actually a Muslim ...

[Drummond]

Yes, we Americans are sick and tired of sending our best in harm's way for folks who seemingly want nothing to do with freedom if it costs them. They ran when Bush Sr. sent in the troops and they are running now. These cowards are all for ganging up on those who think differently than they do and they have no problem chunking rocks at women but when it comes to fighting, they'd rather still hide behind women and children....and if I may remind everyone, it was mostly the women who stuck their neck our and voted after Sad H. was overthrown.

Very well said !


As for other 9/11 attacks, I have no doubt that all of this will lead up to more and more of them but it'll be in other countries first. They have learned to spread their disease one step at a time....one border at a time and Great Britain will be one of the next victims within the next 10 years. At least some of the other European Nations have wised up (a little).

Makes sense. Although, consider the propaganda and morale-boosting effects on any group managing another 9/11-equivalent attack against the US. I think it possible that terrorists would consider such effects to be valuable enough to strive for, making the US the preferred target.


Still, I have mixed feelings about whether or not we should send troops. I'm truly ready for them to come on home.....it's been too long and we've been responsible for something that they world (those closest to the threat) should take responsibility for.

I completely sympathise.


I will say this, however, I'd rather take every ship, plane, troop we have with every bit of technology and focus it on our shores and borders before scattering our resources abroad where it doesn't seem to be appreciated. It is a LOSE/LOSE situation the way we've been doing things and we don't know what all has crossed our border in the last several years. I'm shocked that we haven't seen other 9/ll attacks but I'm certainly glad that the 'sleepers' have been patient or are none-existent for the most part.

Why you haven't seen other 9/11 attacks is probably a combination of excellent intelligence work going on behind the scenes, and the fact of the likes of Al Qaeda being wrong-footed by anti-terrorist measures being taken to their own backyard. The less they have to contend with in that respect .. so, the freer they'll be to plan for and execute international attacks once more. THAT, to my thinking, is ultimately the problem. The US, very understandably, becomes very weary of shouldering terrorist-fighting burdens. So, your enemy waits for such weariness to set in, then exploits it to the full. That YOU may have that weariness doesn't mean that the enemy will share it .. if not, then it's you suffering the disadvantage.


In closing, no one president will fix what has been going on the past 25+ years of weak leadership and I doubt very seriously that we get the 5 or 6 Washingtons or the majority of Senate/Congress that will be needed to help undo the last few years under B.O. God help us is all I can say but it's time to start taking care of ourselves, get the assembly lines going HERE again and time to secure our borders. We will survive ONLY if we do these simple things under true leadership. It is time for Europe to do the same and always remember how poorly they performed before WWII when we had to come in and rescue the world. Save thyself.

I think other countries / powers, such as Europe, for example, deserve no less than this ... and your priority towards just taking care of your own borders is perfectly fair enough in the terms you've addressed But, I've two comments. Firstly, it's not just troop and military deployments which matter .. intelligence efforts matter too. The UK, for example, has sophisticated capabilities of its own, and such cooperations have their value. GCHQ in Cheltenham could go some way to matching Langley, for example, and it may be that we will aid you in the forewarning of a future major attack or attacks.

Secondly -- there are significant dangers in adopting an approach which amounts to the foisting of an umbrella and hoping against hope that it never gets damaged. Securing your borders and putting everything into that effort MIGHT be viable .. but, it amounts to a 'bunker mentality' which, to work, must always work with 100% efficiency - perpetually. You must always succeed .. but, your enemy needs only succeed once. This puts you at a considerable statistical disadvantage, and of course the enemy profits from morale being boosted from that one success. Recruitment is boosted, perceived 'kudos' amongst allies, ditto.

The only good remedy to offsetting all that is to revert to taking the fight straight back to the enemy's backyard once more, shaking off battle weariness and resolving to defeat the scum once and for all. I think you should make new efforts to recruit allies, going so far as to threaten them if they won't play ball. After all ... international security isn't about winning popularity contests, it IS about saving lives and securing borders against a tireless and savage evil, but doing so by eradicating that evil instead of just fending it off all the time.

And maybe, just maybe, the potency of your actions against enemy locations needs to be ratcheted up. Make it clear that hostile territories harbouring terrorist forces can undergo the strongest of military measures if they don't stop. I for one could see myself applauding a nuclear strike (or multiple strikes) against a nation doing a 'hosting' of terrorists, as the Taliban once did for Al Qaeda.

GW Bush wanted the world to be too toxic a place for terrorism to thrive. This is exactly the effect which is most needed. But 'bunker' strategies will never succeed in getting within a light year of achieving it.

[red state]

Drummond, your take that "Why you haven't seen other 9/11 attacks is probably a combination of excellent intelligence work going on behind the scenes, and the fact of the likes of Al Qaeda being wrong-footed by anti-terrorist measures being taken to their own backyard." is spot on and I have considered this for some time now. Too bad the liberals do not consider this as well.

[red state]

I'm no fan of the Bush family (at all) but any one of them are 100 times better than the incompetent piece of crap we currently have in OUR White House!!!! I still believe that we have sleepers, however (despite the Bush plan of keeping terrorism on the defense) and it isn't just terrorism that we have to worry about and as bad as this may sound, the hoards that are coming across our borders (in ways) are worse than the threat from terrorism.