Who created modern day terrorists

[jimnyc]

So Jafar contends that the problem of terrorism around the world has been created by Americans, that our country created these groups and that it's our responsibility to fight them.

My opening...


Beginning with the 7th century Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) era of Muslim conquests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests), and continuing on until the 21st century resurgence of Muslim violence on non-Muslims in the name of "Jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad)",[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] many have debated whether Islam was fundamentally a religion of peace, of violence, or perhaps of some combination of the two.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-2) Within the Quran itself, there appears to be some ambiguity regarding the infliction of injury upon noncombatants.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] In the Quran's "No-Compulsion verse" it is suggested that "there shall be no compulsion in religion".[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-3) However, later in the Quran's "Sword verses", Muslims were advised to "...Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger (Muhammad) have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam)." (The word "fight" translated from Arabic could actually be used to describe an intellectual "fight" (i.e. debate of ideas), it has to be understood depending on the situation).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-4) Down through the ages, the apparent ambiguity between such Quranic verses has left room for a multitude of differing interpretations of the final or ultimate meaning of such verses.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Hence, the misinterpretation of the topic is famous among all parties

So as you can see, America got busy and started creating terrorists in the 7th century. Now let's fast forward to the 20th and 21st century heroes of Islam. Now tell me, Jafar, what is the most prominent common denominator with these groups? VERY GOOD! That's right, the majority are Islamic, and even designated as such throughout the world. Now, how many were created by the USA? And even better - we should make a list of which countries are actively trying to get rid of such groups, which is NONE. And mind you, this is only the tip of the iceberg and one page, I know there are many, many more.

Abdullah Azzam Brigades
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Aden-Abyan Islamic Army
Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj
Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group) (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) (Kongra-Gel)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)
PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Shining Path (SL)
al-Qa’ida (AQ)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)
United Self Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)
Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)
al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)
Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa'ida in Iraq)
Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)
Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
al-Shabaab
Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
Kata'ib Hizballah (KH)
al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)
Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
Jundallah
Army of Islam (AOI)
Indian Mujahedeen (IM)
Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)
Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
Haqqani Network (HQN)
Ansar al-Dine (AAD)
Boko Haram
Ansaru
al-Mulathamun Battalion
Ansar al-Shari'a in Benghazi
Ansar al-Shari'a in Darnah
Ansar al-Shari'a in Tunisia
Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis
al-Nusrah Front

1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
5. Jaish-e-Mohammad Mujahideen E-Tanzeem (JeM)
6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
7. Al Badr
8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
10.Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
11.Al Barq
12.Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
13.Al Jehad
14.Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
15.People’s League
16.Muslim Janbaz Force
17.Kashmir Jehad Force
18.Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
19.Al Umar Mujahideen
20.Mahaz-e-Azadi
21.Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
22.Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
23.Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
24.Islamic Students League
25.Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
26.Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
27.Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
28.Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
29.Muslim Mujahideen
30.Al Mujahid Force
31.Tehrik-e-Jehad
32.Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
33.Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) — A Pakistan based coordination body ofterrorist outfits active in Jammu and Kashmir
34.Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)– The dominant faction of thisoutfit declared a ceasefire in 1994 which still holds and the outfit restricts itselfto a political struggle.
35.All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) — an alliance engineered by Pakistan’sInter Services Intelligence (ISI) of 26 diverse political and socio-religiousoutfits amalgamated to provide a political face for the terrorists in the State.
36.Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) — an outfit run by women which uses communitypressure to further the social norms dictated by Islamic fundamental groups.
37.Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
38.United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
39.Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
40.Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
41.United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
42.Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
43.Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
44.Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
45.Muslim Security Force (MSF)
46.Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
47.Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
48.United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
49.Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
50.Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
51.People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
52.Adam Sena (AS)
53.Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
54.Harkat-ul-Jehad

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimnyc again.




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimnyc again.



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimnyc again.

This is the thread I should have posted but for certain reasons I 've had to temporarily severely limit my time posting here.
Damn glad to see it presented and done so by Jim!!!-Tyr

I've been trying to get this across here for 3 years now.
Islam is the damn enemy simply because its dedicated to being so!
And always has been , it just now that its recovered from the massive defeat given when it was stopped by Charles Martel from taking all of Europe !!!!
Martel saved Western civilization.. and utter demoralized the Muslims so much so that they only recently have started to recover and much of that thanks to ignorant and insane Western liberal policies of appeasement, unjustified tolerance and the insanity called "all inclusiveness"(a faith with dumbass libs)!!!!-Tyr



See link below



http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/army/p/martel.htm

Charles Martel - Battle of Tours:

In 721, the Umayyads first came north and were defeated by Odo at the Battle of Toulouse. Having assessed the situation in Iberia and the Umayyad attack on Aquitaine, Charles came to believe that a professional army, rather than raw conscripts, was needed to defend the realm from invasion. To raise the money necessary to build and train an army that could withstand the Muslim horsemen, Charles began seizing Church lands, earning the ire of the religious community. In 732, the Umayyads moved north again led by Emir Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi. Commanding approximately 80,000 men, he plundered Aquitaine.

As Abdul Rahman sacked Aquitaine, Odo fled north to seek aid from Charles. This was granted in exchange for Odo recognizing Charles as his overlord. Mobilizing his army, Charles moved to intercept the Umayyads. In order to avoid detection and allow Charles to select the battlefield, the approximately 30,000 Frankish troops moved over secondary roads toward the town of Tours. For the battle, Charles selected a high, wooded plain which would force the Umayyad cavalry to charge uphill. Forming a large square, his men surprised Abdul Rahman, forcing the Umayyad emir to pause for a week to consider his options.

On the seventh day, after gathering all of his forces, Abdul Rahman attacked with his Berber and Arab cavalry. In one of the few instances where medieval infantry stood up to cavalry, Charles' troops defeated repeated Umayyad attacks. As the battle waged, the Umayyads finally broke through the Frankish lines and attempted to kill Charles. He was promptly surrounded by his personal guard who repulsed the attack. As this was occurring, scouts that Charles had sent out earlier were infiltrating the Umayyad camp and freeing prisoners.

Believing that the plunder of the campaign was being stolen, a large part of the Umayyad army broke off the battle and raced to protect their camp. While attempting to stop the apparent retreat, Abdul Rahman was surrounded and killed by Frankish troops. Briefly pursued by the Franks, the Umayyad withdrawal turned into a full retreat. Charles reformed his troops expecting another attack, but to his surprise it never came as the Umayyads continued their retreat all the way to Iberia. Charles' victory at the Battle of Tours saved Western Europe from the Muslim invasions and was a turning point in European history.

Charles Martel - Later Life:

After spending the next three years securing his eastern borders, Charles moved south to fend off an Umayyad invasion in Provence. In 736, he led a successful campaign that expelled the Umayyads from the region and for the first time integrated heavy cavalry into his formations. From 737, until his death in 741, Charles focused on the administration of his realm and expanding his influence. When he died on October 22, 741, his lands were divided between his sons Carloman and Pippin the Younger. The latter would father the next great Carolingian leader, Charlemagne.

[Drummond]

This is the thread I should have posted but for certain reasons I 've had to temporarily severely limit my time posting here.
Damn glad to see it presented and done so by Jim!!!-Tyr

I've been trying to get this across here for 3 years now.
Islam is the damn enemy simply because its dedicated to being so!
And always has been , it just now that its recovered from the massive defeat given when it was stopped by Charles Martel from taking all of Europe !!!!
Martel saved Western civilization.. and utter demoralized the Muslims so much so that they only recently have started to recover and much of that thanks to ignorant and insane Western liberal policies of appeasement, unjustified tolerance and the insanity called "all inclusiveness"(a faith with dumbass libs)!!!!-Tyr



See link below:clap::clap::clap:

I would add to this thread, except that between Jim and Tyr, I can't think of anything new to add ! Well said, both.

-- Except, just maybe .. 'Get Outta That, Jafar ..'

[jafar00]

So Jafar contends that the problem of terrorism around the world has been created by Americans, that our country created these groups and that it's our responsibility to fight them.

My opening...

More out of context nonsense. You don't know the meaning of the verse if you believe that tripe you just posted.

As for your list, what is that supposed to prove? That there are quite a few rather annoyed people in the world? Annoyed at being invaded and having western friendly dictators installed and supported so that they can oppress the people?

Granted, some of those groups are way off topic and are just in it for themselves, but you cannot deny the fact that a lot of suffering has been caused by western imperialism in Africa and the Middle East.

[jimnyc]

More out of context nonsense. You don't know the meaning of the verse if you believe that tripe you just posted.

As for your list, what is that supposed to prove? That there are quite a few rather annoyed people in the world? Annoyed at being invaded and having western friendly dictators installed and supported so that they can oppress the people?

Granted, some of those groups are way off topic and are just in it for themselves, but you cannot deny the fact that a lot of suffering has been caused by western imperialism in Africa and the Middle East.

Sure, out of context, and yet it STILL defines much of Islam today.

What does the list prove? That the majority of the terrorists THROUGHOUT THE WORLD are Islamic groups - and you claim we created them - and I think you're wrong. They are animals, scum, vermin - and you continue to support them. These groups are NOT annoyed people - they are known terror groups. Not surprising that once again you find excuses for Islamic terrorism.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sure, out of context, and yet it STILL defines much of Islam today.

What does the list prove? That the majority of the terrorists THROUGHOUT THE WORLD are Islamic groups - and you claim we created them - and I think you're wrong. They are animals, scum, vermin - and you continue to support them. These groups are NOT annoyed people - they are known terror groups. Not surprising that once again you find excuses for Islamic terrorism.

Mere annoyed groups do not wage a worldwide campaign to utterly destroy
innocent men, women and children so as to establish a worldwide dictatorship based upon Islam! The people doing such evil are --get this--
ALL MUSLIMS!!!
How you dare to try to disclaim , ignore or lessen the truth of that fact is
silly to the nth degree IMHO...

Jim rightly points out those groups have one overall common element
= Islam!!!!!!!!! They all murder to advance it!!!!!!!! -Tyr

[jafar00]

Sure, out of context, and yet it STILL defines much of Islam today.

Complete and utter BS. You're only trying to legitimise terrorists by spreading lies about what is said in the Qur'aan.

Why do you support terrorists?

[jimnyc]

Complete and utter BS. You're only trying to legitimise terrorists by spreading lies about what is said in the Qur'aan.

Why do you support terrorists?

These guys are basing their hatred and their terror ways on Islam. What's legitimizing them is when someone like yourself makes excuses for why they exist. You don't want them connected with Islam - but they are inextricably connected, even if in a perverted way. The majority of them even use Islam in naming their little terror groups. They shouldn't be sympathized with in any way whatsoever, but you do it time after time, and I'll never understand why - especially if you say they aren't Islam anyway.

[aboutime]

These guys are basing their hatred and their terror ways on Islam. What's legitimizing them is when someone like yourself makes excuses for why they exist. You don't want them connected with Islam - but they are inextricably connected, even if in a perverted way. The majority of them even use Islam in naming their little terror groups. They shouldn't be sympathized with in any way whatsoever, but you do it time after time, and I'll never understand why - especially if you say they aren't Islam anyway.

jafar. Your propaganda machine STILL doesn't work.

[Drummond]

Complete and utter BS. You're only trying to legitimise terrorists by spreading lies about what is said in the Qur'aan.

Why do you support terrorists?

There is no such thing as a 'legitimate' terrorist, any more than there can be a legitimate criminal, or legitimate serial murderer. Islamic terrorists are both.

Jafar, I daresay you've blinded yourself (out of choice) to the first post in this thread ... the one giving a VERY long list of terrorist groups, these from various parts of the world. I mean, REALLY ... (!!!!!) it's stretching credibility to outright insanity to suppose that each and every group, in each and every country where they appear or originate from, just HAPPEN, COINCIDENTALLY (!), to have ACCIDENTALLY made the same errors of study, or interpretation, of Islamic teachings !

I mean, Jafar, be reasonable ! This cannot be COINCIDENCE !!!!!

If you are right, and all these many groups from so many locations across the world are wrong .. how do you account for it ??

YOU'VE BEEN ASKED THIS BEFORE. DO YOU YET HAVE AN ANSWER, JAFAR ?

[jafar00]

These guys are basing their hatred and their terror ways on Islam.

No, they are not.


Islamic terrorists

ox·y·mo·ron [ok-si-mawr-on, -mohr-] Show IPA
noun, plural ox·y·mo·ra [ok-si-mawr-uh, -mohr-uh] Show IPA , ox·y·mor·ons. Rhetoric .a figure of speech by which (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/which) a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in“cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”

...or "Islamic Terrorist".

The phrase just doesn't make any sense because Islam condemns terrorism in every shape and form.

[jimnyc]

No, they are not.


No different than "No, they are not" to Iranian people being "Islam". Sorry, YOU didn't get to be the great decider. Their warped version of Islam may be way out there, but that's what they are basing it on. Same as the Westboro Church idiots over here. I don't like what they think they are basing their beliefs and actions on, but the truth is that IS where they are starting their warped beliefs from.

You would deny it as well if it great from a prominent Imam from a prestigious college in Cairo as well - until that very same person said something you agree with, then suddenly he's ok, right?

You are a walking cherry picker.

[jafar00]

No different than "No, they are not" to Iranian people being "Islam". Sorry, YOU didn't get to be the great decider. Their warped version of Islam may be way out there, but that's what they are basing it on. Same as the Westboro Church idiots over here. I don't like what they think they are basing their beliefs and actions on, but the truth is that IS where they are starting their warped beliefs from.

You would deny it as well if it great from a prominent Imam from a prestigious college in Cairo as well - until that very same person said something you agree with, then suddenly he's ok, right?

You are a walking cherry picker.

No matter what they try to say, they are not acting in an Islamic way. That is proven 100%. It's not just my opinion.

[gabosaurus]

Who created modern day terrorists? Depends on what we consider as "modern day." And who we define as "terrorists."
Not that this will matter to anyone just looking for another way to vent their hatred of all things Islam.

[DragonStryk72]

So Jafar contends that the problem of terrorism around the world has been created by Americans, that our country created these groups and that it's our responsibility to fight them.

My opening...



So as you can see, America got busy and started creating terrorists in the 7th century. Now let's fast forward to the 20th and 21st century heroes of Islam. Now tell me, Jafar, what is the most prominent common denominator with these groups? VERY GOOD! That's right, the majority are Islamic, and even designated as such throughout the world. Now, how many were created by the USA? And even better - we should make a list of which countries are actively trying to get rid of such groups, which is NONE. And mind you, this is only the tip of the iceberg and one page, I know there are many, many more.

Um, Jim, 7th century isn't modern. You specifically laid out "modern terrorists" in your OP, so the 7th century is really, really not-modern, beyond which, there weren't really terrorists back then, so it's still not the actual spawn-point of modern terrorism.

Actually, we sort of did, though not likely in the exact way that Jafar would mean it. Modern terrorism got rolling thanks to WWII. See, up til then, we pretty much just let countries fight one another, and didn't involve ourselves unless it effected us directly. However, Hitler taught us the flaw in that set of actions, and so we, we began actually getting proactive... and then Korea and Vietnam happened. We're a really powerful country, with a high grade military, so the simple fact of how much trouble both of those wars gave us showed a massive chink in the armor.

Meanwhile, we were setting up Israel, and trying to sort out the ME, and at first, it pretty much was a steamroll for us, having them outgunned, outnumbered, and outclassed militarily, and technologically. This, of course breeds resentment, but they couldn't actually do much to us. But eventually, you get the filter down that small, well-armed groups fighting guerrilla-style are far better against us, and you can see where the chain starts.

Of course, we get better at repelling guerrilla tactics, and they simply came up with ways to get around that. While there were incidences, though, that's really only the point of genesis. We fast forward a ways, and we see the whole US/Russia Cold War run, and we started backing players. This, of course, led to Bin Laden's rise. Bin Laden figures out the next big secret in his war against the Russians: Sufficiently large powers simply can't tap out, and he basically used that idea to bleed the Russians until they collapsed in on themselves.

Now, there's a problem: Bin Laden's Taliban was never going to stay on the good side, and we're not the kind of folks who are just gonna stand on the sidelines, and BL has worked out that strategy for huge powers. For a while, though, we weren't really assailable, due to being united in the first Gulf War, and having no other large nations in conflict with us any more.

SO BL cooks up his plan to get us fighting, now known as 9/11, and it works, better than he could've hoped. With the resulting instability, he basically just kept adding chum to the water. Our own inconsistent, and many times overbearing, relationship with Israel and ME pushes things to the breaking point with many other groups who otherwise would've done little more than bitch and moan, and BOOM!, here we are.

[DragonStryk72]

No, they are not.



ox·y·mo·ron

[ok-si-mawr-on, -mohr-] Show IPA
noun, plural ox·y·mo·ra [ok-si-mawr-uh, -mohr-uh] Show IPA , ox·y·mor·ons. Rhetoric .a figure of speech by which (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/which) a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in“cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”

...or "Islamic Terrorist".

The phrase just doesn't make any sense because Islam condemns terrorism in every shape and form.



Except that, we still had the Crusades, and the Bible had all sorts of things to say against killing, but we were still responsible for it.

[jimnyc]

Um, Jim, 7th century isn't modern. You specifically laid out "modern terrorists" in your OP, so the 7th century is really, really not-modern, beyond which, there weren't really terrorists back then, so it's still not the actual spawn-point of modern terrorism.

And then my next sentence after that?


So as you can see, America got busy and started creating terrorists in the 7th century.

Jafar claimed America has created all of these terrorists. I made a point of showing history, and sarcastically made my comment above afterwards. My bad that you misread what I was getting at, but it was meant to be sarcasm.

[jimnyc]

Who created modern day terrorists? Depends on what we consider as "modern day." And who we define as "terrorists."
Not that this will matter to anyone just looking for another way to vent their hatred of all things Islam.

I got an idea, if you don't like people that "vent their hatred of all things Islam", how about you just move along when you think you see such things, as opposed to trying to rile up trouble in every other thread you come across? You're MUCH too stupid to debate things that take longer than a one liner, or a record 2 sentences for you anyway.

[aboutime]

Who created modern day terrorists? Depends on what we consider as "modern day." And who we define as "terrorists."
Not that this will matter to anyone just looking for another way to vent their hatred of all things Islam.


Gabby. IF you really, really, really need to know, or get an answer to your question above.

The best example many of us will happily display here...would be to say YOUR NAME.

If someone like you, who claims to be so much more highly intelligent than the rest of us needs to bother asking such a simple question. There can only be ONE Honest answer you will accept, and many of us will AGREE with.
So. Congratulations Gabby. YOU managed to answer your own question. YOU are the WHO!

[Abbey Marie]

No, they are not.



ox·y·mo·ron

[ok-si-mawr-on, -mohr-] Show IPA
noun, plural ox·y·mo·ra [ok-si-mawr-uh, -mohr-uh] Show IPA , ox·y·mor·ons. Rhetoric .a figure of speech by which (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/which) a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in“cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”

...or "Islamic Terrorist".

The phrase just doesn't make any sense because Islam condemns terrorism in every shape and form.



Jafar, if SO MANY people are perverting Islam to justify evil practices, perhaps it is time for the honest-to-goodenss "real" Muslims to start a new, pure religion, and not allow these charlatans to join. You can call the new religion "Rislam" for "Real Islam". And while you are at it, you can purge all those uncomfortable verses that I see posted over and over about forced conversions and slaying of infidels.

When Protestants don't like the practices of a church, they start a new sect. Today, it's all about non-denoms. And that's just over some mild doctrinal differences. Not killing of innocents. And if a few Koran-perverters accidentally slip in to your new religion, you can start a Catholic-like practice of excommunication.

Btw, when did the US become the cause of Terrorism, and not Israel? Apparently the baton was passed to us, and we didn't even know it. Shouldn't there have been some sort of ceremony?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jafar, if SO MANY people are perverting Islam to justify evil practices, perhaps it is time for the honest-to-goodenss "real" Muslims to start a new, pure religion, and not allow these charlatans to join. You can call the new religion "Rislam" for "Real Islam". And while you are at it, you can purge all those uncomfortable verses that I see posted over and over about forced conversions and slaying of infidels.

When Protestants don't like the practices of a church, they start a new sect. Today, it's all about non-denoms. And that's just over some mild doctrinal differences. Not killing of innocents. And if a few Koran-perverters accidentally slip in to your new religion, you can start a Catholic-like practice of excommunication.

Btw, when did the US become the cause of Terrorism, and not Israel? Apparently the baton was passed to us, and we didn't even know it. Shouldn't there have been some sort of ceremony?

Purge the Holy Quran of verses !!!! Blasphemy and you saying such would get your head lopped off my friend were you within reach of these ffing animals!
All Islamists are taught that the Holy Quran is pure , so pure in fact if it is desecrated in any way by infidels they are to be put to death!

Jafar will think your wise words quite foolish because he is deep into a brainwashing that forces him to abandon truth and logic and just go with the indoctrinated flow..--Tyr

[Drummond]

Jafar, if SO MANY people are perverting Islam to justify evil practices, perhaps it is time for the honest-to-goodness "real" Muslims to start a new, pure religion, and not allow these charlatans to join. You can call the new religion "Rislam" for "Real Islam". And while you are at it, you can purge all those uncomfortable verses that I see posted over and over about forced conversions and slaying of infidels.

When Protestants don't like the practices of a church, they start a new sect. Today, it's all about non-denoms. And that's just over some mild doctrinal differences. Not killing of innocents. And if a few Koran-perverters accidentally slip in to your new religion, you can start a Catholic-like practice of excommunication.

Btw, when did the US become the cause of Terrorism, and not Israel? Apparently the baton was passed to us, and we didn't even know it. Shouldn't there have been some sort of ceremony?

This actually makes a lot of sense !

I'd argue that there are many Quranic verses which, on first sight, suggest that Islam really has great potential to be a 'religion of peace'. Ah ... but, if only that were so. 'Peaceful' verses or not, far more warlike ones superseded them, courtesy of the principle of ABROGATION. Consequently, and especially where the Verse of the Sword is concerned, what potential it had, is crushed out of all possible relevance to Islam, as it became.

So ... why not, indeed, create a rival Islam which REVERSES the abrogation process -- putting greater weight on the earlier, 'nicer', verses ? Chuck the far more dominant warmongering ones out, in favour of something purged of its more evil elements.

I mean ... WHY EVER NOT ? Makes sense to me, at least in principle ... what say you, Jafar ??

Try to forget the Apostasy punishments so often practiced when considering your reply, Jafar ...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[DragonStryk72]

Jafar, if SO MANY people are perverting Islam to justify evil practices, perhaps it is time for the honest-to-goodenss "real" Muslims to start a new, pure religion, and not allow these charlatans to join. You can call the new religion "Rislam" for "Real Islam". And while you are at it, you can purge all those uncomfortable verses that I see posted over and over about forced conversions and slaying of infidels.

When Protestants don't like the practices of a church, they start a new sect. Today, it's all about non-denoms. And that's just over some mild doctrinal differences. Not killing of innocents. And if a few Koran-perverters accidentally slip in to your new religion, you can start a Catholic-like practice of excommunication.

Btw, when did the US become the cause of Terrorism, and not Israel? Apparently the baton was passed to us, and we didn't even know it. Shouldn't there have been some sort of ceremony?

Well, actually, it would be more like the Protestant Reformation, only for Islam, wherein you would have the old Orthodoxy, and the new Protestant Muslims breaking off. It could work, and actually bring about some of the needed change.

[Daniyel]

I Think 'Terror' always been there, any sort of offensive rebels with no boundaries in order to achieve political gain are considered as 'Terrorists', Those who does it for themselves are called 'Criminals', pretty much the same.
Radical Islam took it step forward with 'Jihad' as a religiously-support term for achieving political gain, pushed by Arab motives for power and respect code, and you got yourself the modern terror that nesting in every normal Arab Muslims community globally.

[darin]

'terrorists' by any other name...

Since before the crusads...in the days of Vlad (Dracula), islamic armies have ceaslessly terrorized the world. Weak-minded people striving to be special decide to kill people in the name of a higher calling. :(