Containing China by reigniting Japan's military?

[defectiverepresentative]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4d05b348-da74-11e3-a448-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31hImMiPW

There's been lots of talk lately about how China will soon become the next world superpower and that it will follow it's older brother 'Murica by becoming the next world policeman. Military spending has risen 12.2% in China in the last year (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/asia/china-military-budget.html?_r=0) and they seem to have the capacity to continue this quick growth. Looking back at history whenever we've seen rises in military spending a country will try to use it's new toys.

Obama's recent efforts to broaden the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement to include Japan (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/obama-in-japan-backs-status-quo-in-island-dispute-with-china) signals that he's trying to use allies in the region to flex some muscle (http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/us-japan-to-boost-asean-maritime-security/).

We're also allowing Japan to start a surveillance program on China and North Korea (http://rt.com/news/158464-japan-us-drones-china/).

Do you think it's in our best interests to try and contain China militarily? Should we allow Japan to restart its defense programs?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4d05b348-da74-11e3-a448-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31hImMiPW

There's been lots of talk lately about how China will soon become the next world superpower and that it will follow it's older brother 'Murica by becoming the next world policeman. Military spending has risen 12.2% in China in the last year (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/asia/china-military-budget.html?_r=0) and they seem to have the capacity to continue this quick growth. Looking back at history whenever we've seen rises in military spending a country will try to use it's new toys.

Obama's recent efforts to broaden the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement to include Japan (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/obama-in-japan-backs-status-quo-in-island-dispute-with-china) signals that he's trying to use allies in the region to flex some muscle (http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/us-japan-to-boost-asean-maritime-security/).

We're also allowing Japan to start a surveillance program on China and North Korea (http://rt.com/news/158464-japan-us-drones-china/).

Do you think it's in our best interests to try and contain China militarily? Should we allow Japan to restart its defense programs?
China seeks to consolidate its newfound power within its sphere. Secure more the base area before venturing too far out.
This strategy goes well with the fact China's Navy is no match for ours or even a few other European powers! That weakness will soon end as China massively improves its Navy. A powerful Navy is the projection of power!

Japan has no choice in the matter the ball is being played by China. USA has its role and it is to try to keep these two from going to war! Our interests are greatly torn between the two. However Treaty states we MUST SIDE with Japan.
China knows this and is maneuvering to change it. China will not war with Japan unless it gets a solid ok from bamstupid it can do so without our military taking action!

Actually looks like this Japan feud may just be China seeking to get Obama to just let them take the Philippines in exchange for stopping the feud with Japan.
Will be interesting exactly what territory the dumbass bampunk decides to just let China take.
My bet is the Philippines but there are three other prime choices too. -Tyr

[defectiverepresentative]

Actually looks like this Japan feud may just be China seeking to get Obama to just let them take the Philippines in exchange for stopping the feud with Japan.
Will be interesting exactly what territory the dumbass bampunk decides to just let China take.
My bet is the Philippines but there are three other prime choices too. -Tyr

I would've never thought that China would be trying to take the Phillipines. The Chinese Army is very green, they have almost no experience fighting a sustained campaign so they would lose a lot of men in any fight. Their recent move to place a submarine near a Vietnamese oil rig(http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-13/china-deploys-submarine-near-vietnam-oil-rig-86-vessels-now-present), is interesting. Historically the Chinese have considered Vietnam to be a top enemy. They still have an axe to grind and China might be trying to reassert dominance over countries that threaten trade volume with the West. (Vietnam, South Korea, Phillipines). It doesn't want to see it's ~7% economic growth slip for any reason.

[reedak]

.....Actually looks like this Japan feud may just be China seeking to get Obama to just let them take the Philippines in exchange for stopping the feud with Japan.
Will be interesting exactly what territory the dumbass bampunk decides to just let China take.
My bet is the Philippines but there are three other prime choices too. -Tyr

My esteemed friend, go and sit on an ant nest first, then come back and share with us your wonderful experience before reiterating your ridiculous conjecture of China wishing to "take the Philippines in exchange for stopping the feud with Japan".

Please name the "three other prime choices".

P.S. While you are sitting on the ant nest, take it as your home toilet bowl and do whatever "business" you like to do. :)

[NightTrain]

Do you think it's in our best interests to try and contain China militarily? Should we allow Japan to restart its defense programs?


I think it's time Japan restarted it's military machine.

The disarmament and pacification of Germany, Japan and Italy worked better than anyone thought in their wildest dreams.

But it's time they all started pulling their weight in the Free World - Japan is capable of defending itself and historically has conquered all of it's neighbors at one time or another.

Japan can bring balance to the region so we don't have to keep sending our SuperCarrier groups out there to calm down the locals when they start saber-rattling & getting bad haircuts.

Germany is for another discussion... I'm not sure anyone can give them their balls back - they're horribly liberal socialist pansies, these days.

[aboutime]

For general info. Japan is way ahead of what most might think these days.


http://youtu.be/8XO1hpQPoqI

[NightTrain]

For general info. Japan is way ahead of what most might think these days.

You're right, AT. They have quite a bit more military than I thought they did - but it's a far cry from where they could be and the way things are now they wouldn't have a prayer against China without U.S. assistance in a conflict.

But they do rank 10th in the world as far as military power goes, check out this very interesting site :

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=japan

From Wiki :


In theory, Japan's rearmament is prohibited by Article 9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Constitution_of_Japan) of the Japanese constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan), which states:"Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized."
However, in practice the Diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Japan), (or Parliament), which Article 41 of the Constitution defines as "the highest organ of the state power", established the Self-Defense Forces in 1954. Although they are equipped as a conventional military force, they are, by law, an extension of the police, created solely to ensure national security. Due to the constitutional debate concerning the Forces' status, any attempt at increasing the Forces' capabilities and budget tends to be controversial. Thus the JSDF's capabilities are mainly defensive, with only limited overseas capabilities. The JSDF lacks offensive capabilities such as aircraft carriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier), long-range surface-to-surface missiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-surface_missile), ballistic missiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_missile), strategic bombers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bomber),[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces#cite_note-21) marines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_(military)), amphibious units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_warfare), and large caches of ammunition. The Rules of Engagement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_engagement) are strictly defined by the Self-Defence Forces Act 1954.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

So they'd have to amend their Constitution that we wrote for them in 1947 to scale up their military capabilities to counterbalance China and our favorite fat little lunatic with the bad haircut.

Or they could import Obama who doesn't give a damn about Constitutional guidelines and save themselves a lot of time and hassle with those annoying legal triflings. :smoke:

[aboutime]

You're right, AT. They have quite a bit more military than I thought they did - but it's a far cry from where they could be and the way things are now they wouldn't have a prayer against China without U.S. assistance in a conflict.

But they do rank 10th in the world as far as military power goes, check out this very interesting site :

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=japan

From Wiki :



So they'd have to amend their Constitution that we wrote for them in 1947 to scale up their military capabilities to counterbalance China and our favorite fat little lunatic with the bad haircut.

Or they could import Obama who doesn't give a damn about Constitutional guidelines and save themselves a lot of time and hassle with those annoying legal triflings. :smoke:


Night Train. Right you are. Funny thing about the video is. Most of those Frigate class ships are Old U.S.Navy ships we sold to Japan. They are limited in many ways but..they have basically the same capabilities we have...or had.. just after Vietnam into the 70's.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think it's time Japan restarted it's military machine.

The disarmament and pacification of Germany, Japan and Italy worked better than anyone thought in their wildest dreams.

But it's time they all started pulling their weight in the Free World - Japan is capable of defending itself and historically has conquered all of it's neighbors at one time or another.

Japan can bring balance to the region so we don't have to keep sending our SuperCarrier groups out there to calm down the locals when they start saber-rattling & getting bad haircuts.

Germany is for another discussion... I'm not sure anyone can give them their balls back - they're horribly liberal socialist pansies, these days.

Bamscum rushed billions to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
But that's his (terrorist)muslim buddies, wasn't it?

Think he'll rush billions to beef up Japan's military!??? ;)--Tyr