‘One Nation Under Allah’

[namvet]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2wfvh3k.jpg

Colorado High School Students Say Pledge In Arabic

The school recites the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.dcclothesline.com/tag/pledge-of-allegiance/) weekly, on Mondays. Last Monday, the student body recited the pledge in Arabic replacing “under God” with “under Allah.”

link (http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/04/30/colorado-high-school-students-say-pledge-arabic-one-nation-allah/)

IMO its child abuse. but we have to be PC and tolerant and all that good stuff right???

[red state]

Yep, stupid white folks......you are looking, first hand, at the reason we have ole big ears in OUR White House. Sad isn't it that the so-called "men" in that area can't grow a pair (like some of our fathers, grandfathers and so on had when they stormed beaches or waded through blood-soaked swamps). My grandfather told of being in the Pacific Islands and of the many horrors he as a sgt. saw during WWII and I'm glad that he didn't see this day after all the blood he shed and friends he saw go down. I sure would like to see these folks who are giving our Nation away have their clothes literally rot off just as my grandfathers clothes did while fighting for our freedoms. Say what you will but we are an ENGLISH speaking Nation and if these folks knew the old moon god called allah as I, they'd keep to what works.....ONE NATION, under ONE GOD (Jehovah).

Just a side note for those who think wrongly of the above.....I believe you should be allowed to worship whomever or whatever in this Great Nation but make no bones about it; it was predominantly CHRISTIAN people who founded, fought and preserved this great Nation (not allah, satan or buddha). What is know today as the USA is because of those in search of GOD...unlike our neighbors who sought not GOD but GOLD and conquest. We've never been saints or perfect but we're as close to it as the world has EVER seen. That is, until the leftists and the ignorant (such as these arabic chanting crowd ruined everything.

[namvet]

Yep, stupid white folks......you are looking, first hand, at the reason we have ole big ears in OUR White House. Sad isn't it that the so-called "men" in that area can't grow a pair (like some of our fathers, grandfathers and so on had when they stormed beaches or waded through blood-soaked swamps). My grandfather told of being in the Pacific Islands and of the many horrors he as a sgt. saw during WWII and I'm glad that he didn't see this day after all the blood he shed and friends he saw go down. I sure would like to see these folks who are giving our Nation away have their clothes literally rot off just as my grandfathers clothes did while fighting for our freedoms. Say what you will but we are an ENGLISH speaking Nation and if these folks knew the old moon god called allah as I, they'd keep to what works.....ONE NATION, under ONE GOD (Jehovah).

Just a side note for those who think wrongly of the above.....I believe you should be allowed to worship whomever or whatever in this Great Nation but make no bones about it; it was predominantly CHRISTIAN people who founded, fought and preserved this great Nation (not allah, satan or buddha). What is know today as the USA is because of those in search of GOD...unlike our neighbors who sought not GOD but GOLD and conquest. We've never been saints or perfect but we're as close to it as the world has EVER seen. That is, until the leftists and the ignorant (such as these arabic chanting crowd ruined everything.

hope im wrong. but in 2016 we may not have any nation left to build on. Obastard and his storm troopers will leave burnt offerings

[red state]

I've been saying (wondering) for years how B.O. will leave office. Will he he as honorable as Bush Jr. or will he be forcibly removed by REAL AMERICANS following the law of the land that our founders provided? Will WE be able or willing to remove him should he see fit to stay a while longer?

These are legitimate concerns and questions but we shall see. As a Bible Believing Cherokee/Scot, I believe it is the sign of the times and that it WILL get worse before it gets better. We may have pockets of sunshine but for the most part dark clouds are all around us. If you want to hold out a lil' longer.......you best find a good ole Southern/Conservative region. I like Alaska and the Mid-West but they don't have the numbers to back up their Conservatism. They're simply scattered too much. I truly believe we'll see it get really nasty......but like you, let's hope the WE THE PEOPLE have another 100 years. If not for any other reason; to go out in a blaze of glory (just like we came in).

Godspeed,

Red State

[darin]

I have no problem with people using whatever language they wish when reciting a pledge they will never keep.

[namvet]

I have no problem with people using whatever language they wish when reciting a pledge they will never keep.

nor I. but leave the children alone

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2wfvh3k.jpg

Colorado High School Students Say Pledge In Arabic

The school recites the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.dcclothesline.com/tag/pledge-of-allegiance/) weekly, on Mondays. Last Monday, the student body recited the pledge in Arabic replacing “under God” with “under Allah.”

link (http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/04/30/colorado-high-school-students-say-pledge-arabic-one-nation-allah/)

IMO its child abuse. but we have to be PC and tolerant and all that good stuff right???


Its brainwashing but hey that's what the schools are now geared for. They now teach God is dead , America is always wrong and best is Communist Red and Muslim lies. Boy blunder leads the way and the asses follow along braying his greatness.
A nation of such asses deserves to reap a very bitter harvest. Sadly we will.

Just hunker down , save your ammo and shoot only when the target is near enough to be destroyed. Of course always have at least one long range widow maker handy with a good supply of ammo! ;)--Tyr

[namvet]

Its brainwashing but hey that's what the schools are now geared for. They now teach God is dead , America is always wrong and best is Communist Red and Muslim lies. Boy blunder leads the way and the asses follow along braying his greatness.
A nation of such asses deserves to reap a very bitter harvest. Sadly we will.

Just hunker down , save your ammo and shoot only when the target is near enough to be destroyed. Of course always have at least one long range widow maker handy with a good supply of ammo! ;)--Tyr

my fears to Tyr. im a little to old to be shootin' but i can help supply the ammo

[jafar00]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2wfvh3k.jpg

Colorado High School Students Say Pledge In Arabic

The school recites the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.dcclothesline.com/tag/pledge-of-allegiance/) weekly, on Mondays. Last Monday, the student body recited the pledge in Arabic replacing “under God” with “under Allah.”

link (http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/04/30/colorado-high-school-students-say-pledge-arabic-one-nation-allah/)

IMO its child abuse. but we have to be PC and tolerant and all that good stuff right???


What would you say if they recited "Une Nation sous Dieu"? Would you be saying how dare they replace "God" with "Dieu"? :poke:

[namvet]

What would you say if they recited "Une Nation sous Dieu"? Would you be saying how dare they replace "God" with "Dieu"? :poke:

I'd say to France, go fuck yourselves. cowards

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'd say to France, go fuck yourselves. cowards

And they'd do it too, right after they raised the white flag and surrendered to you!

You know their tanks have one very super low speed forward gear and 5 high speed reverses , right?? :laugh: And three white flags because redundancy is a must.. ;) --Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

my fears to Tyr. im a little to old to be shootin' but i can help supply the ammo

Your help would be greatly appreciated brother'. You supply extra ammo and I'll supply the eyes and fingers to send 'em directly to hell with. A tag team even Chesty Puller would approve of my friend!! :beer: :salute: :beer: -Tyr

[jafar00]

Jokes aside, my question wasn't answered.

[darin]

They can't teach "God is Dead" if they are having the kids say "allah" - I'm convinced God doesn't give two shits what you call "him".

Elohim
Adonai
ho kurios
Yasū'
shàng dì
Tiānzhǔ
Nkosi
Olodumare
Ar-Rahim
Al-Quddus
Al-Malik
Bahá'u'lláh
יהוה

[Jeff]

my fears to Tyr. im a little to old to be shootin' but i can help supply the ammo

I would be more than happy to have you on my side as I help remove the trash !!



I'd say to France, go fuck yourselves. cowards

:laugh: and you would of just won against these worms !!



They can't teach "God is Dead" if they are having the kids say "allah" - I'm convinced God doesn't give two shits what you call "him".

Elohim
Adonai
ho kurios
Yasū'
shàng dì
Tiānzhǔ
Nkosi
Olodumare
Ar-Rahim
Al-Quddus
Al-Malik
Bahá'u'lláh
יהוה


I believe this as well dmp but this is such a evil religion I seriously doubt God would want anything to do with it, but seriously to make kids recite this is just wrong, as we take God out of schools , courts, ect .... we are going to allow this?

[darin]

I believe this as well dmp but this is such a evil religion I seriously doubt God would want anything to do with it, but seriously to make kids recite this is just wrong, as we take God out of schools , courts, ect .... we are going to allow this?

God loves Muslims more than life itself. God loves islamic terrorists more than life itself. I don't mind it because i'm glad God is out of schools and courts. Our gov't is SOO Beyond F'd up they have NO business teaching morals or things of the heart.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They can't teach "God is Dead" if they are having the kids say "allah" - I'm convinced God doesn't give two shits what you call "him".

Elohim
Adonai
ho kurios
Yasū'
shàng dì
Tiānzhǔ
Nkosi
Olodumare
Ar-Rahim
Al-Quddus
Al-Malik
Bahá'u'lláh
יהוה


A key point is which "God".
I could start a cult and name my God "Bigassa" and teach that God commands us to lie ,steal ,cheat and murder in his name!! O' wait that ship has already sailed!
I am a day late and a DOLLAR SHORT on that!!
Dude beat me to it , I think his name was Mohammad. --Tyr

[darin]

A key point is which "God".
I could start a cult and name my God "Bigassa" and teach that God commands us to lie ,steal ,cheat and murder in his name!! O' wait that ship has already sailed!
I am a day late and a DOLLAR SHORT on that!!
Dude beat me to it , I think his name was Mohammad. --Tyr

There isn't 'which' God. God is. All. There are not many to choose from.

What language one chooses to profess God is not relevant to God.

Think of it like this:

Is there one God? If YES - then no matter to whom one prays, God is still the One God. If there are Many Gods, getting the name right makes sense. It's like email addresses. If All email went to one person, the address wouldn't matter.

The sincere prayer to God matters more than the language used to utter the prayer.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There isn't 'which' God. God is. All. There are not many to choose from.

What language one chooses to profess God is not relevant to God.

Think of it like this:

Is there one God? If YES - then no matter to whom one prays, God is still the One God. If there are Many Gods, getting the name right makes sense. It's like email addresses. If All email went to one person, the address wouldn't matter.

The sincere prayer to God matters more than the language used to utter the prayer.

There is one God. And prayers to him that are sincere and valid requests and/or praise are honored as God sees fit. A big distinction is how one believes, what one believes in and how one acts according to the tenets of that chosen religion. That's where the importance of the specific religion come into play. Does it teach 1. love of God, 2.love of fellow man, 3.walking in the light , 4.striving for peace , 5. no compulsion to join and most important of all 6. the only way to Salvation?

Islam fails totally on many of those and only one religion hits the mark on all IMHO. -Tyr

[darin]

There is one God. And prayers to him that are sincere and valid requests and/or praise are honored as God sees fit. A big distinction is how one believes, what one believes in and how one acts according to the tenets of that chosen religion. That's where the importance of the specific religion come into play. Does it teach 1. love of God, 2.love of fellow man, 3.walking in the light , 4.striving for peace , 5. no compulsion to join and most important of all 6. the only way to Salvation?

Islam fails totally on many of those and only one religion hits the mark on all IMHO. -Tyr

We have no idea if God prefers the teachings of one religion over another. And we cannot say which way God decides in terms of salvation. Some argue with valid points "Hell" as classically taught by the church does not or may not exist.

Good. Bad. Those decisions are God's. Reward. Punishment. Those too.

To speak to the story in the OP, since the students were neither praying nor seriously taking an oath or pledge, the name they chose is ultimately of no consequence.

[aboutime]

Never heard ANYONE say "GOD SNACKBAR!"

Personally. If the parents of children who allow this to take place don't care. That's gonna be THEIR PROBLEM...later on. After Obama is gone, and their Children Reject them based on their lack of education, or History training.

Imagine American children cheering at SPRING BREAK...on your money, while drinking, and being high on drugs, celebrating "ALLAH SNACKBAR WEEK!"

[aboutime]

Never heard ANYONE say "GOD SNACKBAR!"

Personally. If the parents of children who allow this to take place don't care. That's gonna be THEIR PROBLEM...later on. After Obama is gone, and their Children Reject them based on their lack of education, or History training.

Imagine American children cheering at SPRING BREAK...on your money, while drinking, and being high on drugs, celebrating "ALLAH SNACKBAR WEEK!"

Obviously. Far too many Americans today, have no idea what the Constitution, or Laws are.

I go by this......http://icansayit.com/images/constihandbook.jpg

Every American citizen should have a copy, and try READING IT!

[NightTrain]

We have no idea if God prefers the teachings of one religion over another.


Well... just look at the astounding ass-kickings delivered to multiple muslim nations simultaneously by Israel.

I think it's abundantly clear who God favors.

[Drummond]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2wfvh3k.jpg

Colorado High School Students Say Pledge In Arabic

The school recites the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.dcclothesline.com/tag/pledge-of-allegiance/) weekly, on Mondays. Last Monday, the student body recited the pledge in Arabic replacing “under God” with “under Allah.”

link (http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/04/30/colorado-high-school-students-say-pledge-arabic-one-nation-allah/)

IMO its child abuse. but we have to be PC and tolerant and all that good stuff right???


DISGUSTING. And surely one hell of a wake-up call !!

Liberal trash would doubtless want to say this is an act of 'inclusion', of being enlightened enough to consider other faiths. Which is rubbish. This is an insulting form of indoctrination, and a far cry from any effort towards 'equalisation' of faiths. This is favouritism towards Islam. Perhaps even a step towards outright conversion away from Christianity and Christian standards, in favour of a religion whose savage practitioners have proved themselves to be America's enemies.

It should be seen as anti-American, in my humble view, and ideally actionable in those terms.

[aboutime]

DISGUSTING. And surely one hell of a wake-up call !!

Liberal trash would doubtless want to say this is an act of 'inclusion', of being enlightened enough to consider other faiths. Which is rubbish. This is an insulting form of indoctrination, and a far cry from any effort towards 'equalisation' of faiths. This is favouritism towards Islam. Perhaps even a step towards outright conversion away from Christianity and Christian standards, in favour of a religion whose savage practitioners have proved themselves to be America's enemies.

It should be seen as anti-American, in my humble view, and ideally actionable in those terms.

Sir Drummond. Your disgust appreciated. However. There's a pretty safe bet. The children, and parents who did this. Did so out of FEAR of being labeled Racists...Since...there is probably very little doubt. Those parents also voted TWICE for Obama.

They would sell their family members down the river, with their nation...rather than have someone think they are the RACISTS...they actually are.
As you know. People like Me, here in America must tread lightly and never disclose, or admit we dislike Obama...for his Policies...and not because of his skin color.
That doesn't sell in the Liberal World of STUPID.
But..we sure do know who the REAL AMERICAN COWARDS ARE.

[namvet]

Sir Drummond. Your disgust appreciated. However. There's a pretty safe bet. The children, and parents who did this. Did so out of FEAR of being labeled Racists...Since...there is probably very little doubt. Those parents also voted TWICE for Obama.

They would sell their family members down the river, with their nation...rather than have someone think they are the RACISTS...they actually are.
As you know. People like Me, here in America must tread lightly and never disclose, or admit we dislike Obama...for his Policies...and not because of his skin color.
That doesn't sell in the Liberal World of STUPID.
But..we sure do know who the REAL AMERICAN COWARDS ARE.


not me brother. i lay obastard out like sliced cheese. and right in front of libs. fuck them and that big eared jackfuck they voted for !!!

[aboutime]

not me brother. i lay obastard out like sliced cheese. and right in front of libs. fuck them and that big eared jackfuck they voted for !!!


namvet. Maybe I should have added "tongue-in-cheek". Of course I am not afraid of what the dumb, and perpetually STUPID might call me, or accuse me of being.

In fact. I know. When someone calls me a Racist, or Terrorist. That's actually a compliment that means...I AM BOTHERING THEM, or HURTING their little, crybaby feelings.

I expect to be called names because. TELLING THE TRUTH has never gotten me in trouble. EVER.

[namvet]

namvet. Maybe I should have added "tongue-in-cheek". Of course I am not afraid of what the dumb, and perpetually STUPID might call me, or accuse me of being.

In fact. I know. When someone calls me a Racist, or Terrorist. That's actually a compliment that means...I AM BOTHERING THEM, or HURTING their little, crybaby feelings.

I expect to be called names because. TELLING THE TRUTH has never gotten me in trouble. EVER.

i do it for fun. just to piss em off. have you pissed off a lib today??? :thumb:

[aboutime]

i do it for fun. just to piss em off. have you pissed off a lib today??? :thumb:


I HOPE SO! :laugh: BUT...I'D RATHER PISS "ON" ONE!:laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We have no idea if God prefers the teachings of one religion over another. And we cannot say which way God decides in terms of salvation. Some argue with valid points "Hell" as classically taught by the church does not or may not exist.

Good. Bad. Those decisions are God's. Reward. Punishment. Those too.

To speak to the story in the OP, since the students were neither praying nor seriously taking an oath or pledge, the name they chose is ultimately of no consequence.

I can live with the term "we" can not say.
As in my faith I need no other saying with me although I welcome the chorus of a billion Christians worldwide that say Jesus Son of God is The Way, The Salvation and the Light..
Over a billion Muslims lost into horrific Darkness says that Satan rules earth for now.
Will not always be so........ -Tyr

[jafar00]

I believe this as well dmp but this is such a evil religion I seriously doubt God would want anything to do with it, but seriously to make kids recite this is just wrong, as we take God out of schools , courts, ect .... we are going to allow this?

I believe the topic is about the pledge of allegiance in Arabic, not about how misguided you are about Islam.

How about the following quote? After reading it, do you still feel that Allah refers to a different God?

فِي البَدءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّماواتِ وَالأرْضَ.
Genesis 1:1

[Abbey Marie]

Our kids must be so confused, they don't know which way is up. I agree with dmp's point about the schools being too screwed up to teach morals. And it's not their domain anyway. Changing the pledge from God to Allah is way beyond their purview.

Parents who truly love and care about their children will do whatever it takes to get them out of any school that messes with them. And it is the parents' decision what that means for them.

[jafar00]

Changing the pledge from God to Allah is way beyond their purview.

You are making me dizzy. If you change their lunchbox from apple to pomme for the day, what are you doing? I don't see the difference.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You are making me dizzy. If you change their lunchbox from apple to pomme for the day, what are you doing? I don't see the difference.

And the fact they wouldn't dare use the word Jesus or Christ in public school yet so easily use the Muslim term Allah
sits well with you but damn sure does not with us!!

They ban Christian words but dare to use Muslim words which points to "their" hypocrisy and alliance with Islam.
This insanity called "inclusion" is exactly what is now destroying Britain..-Tyr

[jafar00]

And the fact they wouldn't dare use the word Jesus or Christ in public school yet so easily use the Muslim term Allah
sits well with you but damn sure does not with us!!

They ban Christian words but dare to use Muslim words which points to "their" hypocrisy and alliance with Islam.
This insanity called "inclusion" is exactly what is now destroying Britain..-Tyr

If Allah is a Muslim only word, why is it in the ARABIC BIBLE?!?

In case you missed it the first time.... Genesis 1:1

فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ،

[jimnyc]

If Allah is a Muslim only word, why is it in the ARABIC BIBLE?!?

In case you missed it the first time.... Genesis 1:1

فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ،

Not all Muslims agree with you.


As you can see, even though many English speaking Muslims claim it states "there is no god but God", this is not the case. Muslims view the name Allah as a proper noun, as opposed to a common noun descriptive applicable to any deity. Allah is not the generic word for 'god' in Arabic, but the name of Islam's deity.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?45140-Reason-for-yelling-quot-Allahu-Akbar-quot-prior-during-to-killing&p=685872#post685872

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Not all Muslims agree with you.



http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?45140-Reason-for-yelling-quot-Allahu-Akbar-quot-prior-during-to-killing&p=685872#post685872

This refutes Jafar's ignorance Jim.


http://www.christianforums.com/t4193668/

Muslims claim allah is the proper noun name of God, i.e God's true name, not a common noun, i.e a generic name like Lord, but the real name of God, just as you are generically called a he, but your real name might be Luke...John... this is a little disconcerting considering to all intense and purposes, arabic did not exist before hebrew; and there is no equivalent of the hebrew name for God as God's proper noun name in the entire quran:




Exodus 3:13-15:
13And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
So we are left with a dilemma, why for 5+ millenias christians and jews have known God by a different proper noun name, only for the quran to arrive 600 years after christianity; and claim God's proper noun name is 'allah' and was always 'allah' since the very beginning? Considering the arabic language itself was still being developed years after the death of it's prophet, the claim is a little, for want of a better word, patronizing.

An indepth study into the roots of the name 'allah' reveals quite a lot of hitherto unflattering information. Of the numerous arabic lexicons about, the lexicon by Edward Lane, stands alone as a classic masterpiece, simply for it's meticulous precision done over a 34 year period. On page 82 of Lane's lexicon there is an entry for the root 'ilaha'



Notice under this root Lane says it means:
"he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.

On the very next page, p.83 of Lane's lexicon, he describes the origins of the word allah:



Notice that Lane (a christian, despite his decades living with muslims) twice designates the islamic god, with a small g , i.e "only true god" Notice Lane also says that allah is " originally ilaha or ilaaha" It would take some semantic acrobatics of absurd proportions to claim that Lane doesn't mean allah is originally "ilaha or ilaaha" seeing he has given no less than five sources (in brackets) who testify to this. Recall again that the root of this word means "he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.

Even if this evidence were to be dismissed as the subjective opinions of a christian, the team from answering-christianity (a muslim site)
admits allah is related to ilah. The team from islamic-awareness (another muslim site)understand that allah is related to ilah, the team from islam-online ( a moderate westernized muslim site)understand allah is related to ilah, the team from answering-islam understand allah is related to ilah, Even a google search categorically states allah and ilah have the same root in Lane's lexicon.

The evidence that allah and ilah have the same source is damning. This does not mean any arab christian who calls God allah is worshipping a false God, as God knows the heart, but the origins of the word allah, are rooted in idol worship, as implied by the best arabic lexicon available.



14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Allah does not and never has translated to = I AM...... Jafar may be sincere in his belief but he is still wrong. --Tyr



http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/695/what-are-the-different-names-of-god-in-the-bible-and-what-do-they-mean

Names for God the Christian bible



Elohim

Genesis 1:1 (ESV)

1 In the beginning, God [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth.

Pslam 19:1 (ESV)

1 The heavens declare the glory of God, [Elohim] and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

The name "Elohim" means "God" and is a reference to God's power and might.

Adonai

Malachi 1:6 (ESV)

… And if I am a master, where is my fear? says the LORD of hosts [Adonai] to you, O priests…

Adonai means "Lord" and refers to the Lordship of God.

Jehovah/Yahweh

Genesis 2:4 (ESV)

4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created,in the day that the LORD God [Jehovah-Yahweh] made the earth and the heavens.

Translated as I am, I am who am, or I am who I am, and indicates God's personal, eternal, non-contingent nature. It is given to Moses by God when prompted for His name.

Jehovah-Maccaddeshem

Exodus 31:13

13"You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, [Jehovah-Maccaddeshem] sanctify you.'"

Means "The Lord thy sanctifier"

Jehovah-Rohi

Psalm 23:1 (ESV)

1The LORD [Jehovah-Rohi] is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Jehovah-Shammah

Ezekiel 48:35 (ESV)

35The circumference of the city shall be 18,000 cubits. And the name of the city from that time on shall be, The LORD Is There. [Jehovah-Shammah]"

Means "The Lord who is present"

Jehovah-Rapha

Exodus 15:26 (ESV)

"…I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, your healer. [Jehovah-Rapha]"

Means "The Lord our healer"

Jehovah-Tsidkenu

Jeremiah 23:6 (ESV)

6In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.'

Means "The Lord our righteousness"

Jehovah-Jireh

Genesis 22:14 (ESV)

14So Abraham called the name of that place, "The LORD will provide"; as it is said to this day, "On the mount of the LORD it shall be provided."

Means "The Lord will provide"

Jehovah-Nissi

Exodus 17:15 (ESV)

15And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The LORD Is My Banner,

Means the "The Lord is my banner"

Jehovah-Shalom

Judges 6:24 (ESV)

24Then Gideon built an altar there to the LORD [Jehovah-Shalom] and called it, The LORD Is Peace. To this day it still stands at Ophrah, which belongs to the Abiezrites.

Means "The Lord is peace"

Jehovah-Sabbaoth

Isaiah 6:1-3 (ESV)

3And one called to another and said:

"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Means the "Lord of hosts"

Jehovah-Gmolah

Jeremiah 51:6 (ESV)

6 …Be not cut off in her punishment,
 for this is the time of the LORD’s [Jehovah-Gmolah] vengeance,
 the repayment he is rendering her.

Means "The God of Recompense"

El-Elyon

Genesis 14:17-20 (ESV)

19And he blessed him and said,
"Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Possessor[a] of heaven and earth; 20and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!"

Isaiah 14:14 (ESV)

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Means "The most high God"

El-Roi

Genesis 16:13 (ESV)

13 So she called the name of the LORD [El-Roi] who spoke to her, "You are a God of seeing," for she said, "Truly here I have seen him who looks after me."

Means "The strong one who sees"

El-Shaddai

Genesis 17:1 (ESV)

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty [El Shaddai]; walk before me, and be blameless,

Psalm 91:1

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High [El-Shaddai] will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.

Means "The God of the mountains" or "God Almighty"

El-Olam

Isaiah 40:31 (ESV)

31but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings like eagles;
they shall run and not be weary;
they shall walk and not faint.


Means "The everlasting God"



Again we see no --"Allah"--- presented.. Allah is the name of a false God imagined and birthed into this world by Mohammad and we all know what Mohammad was don't we?--Tyr

[Abbey Marie]

You are making me dizzy. If you change their lunchbox from apple to pomme for the day, what are you doing? I don't see the difference.

Jafar, if you think that God and apples are equally important, that's on you.

And even if you or I believe that God and Allah are the same being, most people do not, so the lesson these children learn is that it doesn't matter which God you worship. And if they are in fact one and the the same, why change the word for the Pledge in the first place?

[jafar00]

Not all Muslims agree with you.

I wasn't asking Muslims. Ask any Arabic reader, Muslim, Jew or Christian and they will still say "Allah" as God's name.


This refutes Jafar's ignorance Jim.

I assume you mean this.


Notice that Lane (a christian, despite his decades living with muslims) twice designates the islamic god, with a small g , i.e "only true god" Notice Lane also says that allah is " originally ilaha or ilaaha" It would take some semantic acrobatics of absurd proportions to claim that Lane doesn't mean allah is originally "ilaha or ilaaha" seeing he has given no less than five sources (in brackets) who testify to this. Recall again that the root of this word means "he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.

Completely and utterly wrong. Illaaha is just A God, Allah is THE God, the One and only. It's his name. You can only use Allah for God. Allah is not originally Illaaha at all. These are two different things entirely. You are reading something that tries to twist the truth and fails.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?45140-Reason-for-yelling-quot-Allahu-Akbar-quot-prior-during-to-killing&p=685869#post685869


Jafaar, if you think that God and apples are equally important, that's on you.

And even if you or I believe that God and Allah are the same being, most people do not, so the lesson these children learn is that it doesn't matter which God you worship. and if they are in fact one and the the same, why change the word for the Pledge in the first place?

I'm talking about language. If they decided to say the pledge in a different language for a day as part of their lessons, it shouldn't be such a problem. Some of you are extending the outrage to say that Allah is a different God to the one in the pledge of allegiance in English. That is absurd.

[logroller]

Our kids must be so confused, they don't know which way is up. I agree with dmp's point about the schools being too screwed up to teach morals. And it's not their domain anyway. Changing the pledge from God to Allah is way beyond their purview.


Parents who truly love and care about their children will do whatever it takes to get them out of any school that messes with them. And it is the parents' decision what that means for them.
I'd argue that having children recite a pledge to God and country isn't in the domain of government either, regardless of God or Allah. The Constitution doesn't say a thing about children's allegiance to Nation, Flag or God. Considering that the original pledge was written by a socialist, to include a salute consisting of the arm outstretched towards the flag, I think it goes without saying that it should raise a few concerns among conservatives.

[aboutime]

I'd argue that having children recite a pledge to God and country isn't in the domain of government either, regardless of God or Allah. The Constitution doesn't say a thing about children's allegiance to Nation, Flag or God. Considering that the original pledge was written by a socialist, to include a salute consisting of the arm outstretched towards the flag, I think it goes without saying that it should raise a few concerns among conservatives.


logroller. You must be leading a really miserable, hate EVERYTHING America life.

Have you ever dedicated yourself to anything...like your country, other than yourself?

Your reasoning sounds more like someone who hates America than anything else.

[logroller]

logroller. You must be leading a really miserable, hate EVERYTHING America life.

Have you ever dedicated yourself to anything...like your country, other than yourself?

Your reasoning sounds more like someone who hates America than anything else.
That's baseless and irrelevant, but you're entitled to an opinion.

As to the question, yes I have:God.

Regarding my reasoning, and maybe this threatens the essence of your outrage over Allah, it's not the role of government to indoctrinate the youth into believing in America IMO. That doesn't imply that I hate America and, quite frankly, I'm abhorred that someone who dedicated a career to upholding the Constitution needs to be shown that nowhere in the document does it support such actions. Know why? Because the sum of human experience shows that if you have a good product, it sells itself.

Point of fact, the author of the pledge was a Christian socialist with a flair for nationalism and the original pledge was performed with a nazi-like salute. If my reasoning indicates anything, it's that I hate nazism and have an aversion to their tactics. Apparently the jury's still out with you. :dunno:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That's baseless and irrelevant, but you're entitled to an opinion.

Yes, he is so entitled..--Tyr



As to the question, yes I have: God.

So have others and all of them that I know do not go out of their way to defend a cult/cause/agenda that denies that Jesus was the Son of God and our Savior! Sad to have to say
that you doing so sends up red flags with me. For Islam is not a religion like any other, at least not like in any Christian or Western religion. For it teaches that blind obedience gains salvation which is a direct counter to the TRUTH that only by accepting Christ can one be saved!
You defend a darkness that now enslaves over a billion people. I suspect that you have your reasons but none of them can be Christian based IMHO.
Your judgment you will have to live with it but defending such an evil cult has nothing to do with Christianity..-Tyr




Regarding my reasoning, and maybe this threatens the essence of your outrage over Allah, it's not the role of government to indoctrinate the youth into believing in America IMO. That doesn't imply that I hate America and, quite frankly, I'm abhorred that someone who dedicated a career to upholding the Constitution needs to be shown that nowhere in the document does it support such actions. Know why? Because the sum of human experience shows that if you have a good product, it sells itself.

Well overlook the elephant will you!? Its also not the government 's role to defend Islam like it does, promote Islam like it is doing and allow that promotion in public schools. Its socialist/leftist policy and you damn well know it. Christianity must oppose socialism for it directly opposes individual freedom so necessary for Christians to live with and live by!!
This government defense and promotion of Islam over that of Christianity is what you defend with your stand and with your criticism of we that point out Islam's threat to us /our nation and its damn EVIL!! As you so easily ignore Islam's promotion over al other religions!! As you defend Islam's promotion over Christianity! Surely to this man makes your level of Christian understanding suspect in my judgment and as you pointed out to AT-- everybody is entitled to an opinion.. -Tyr


Point of fact, the author of the pledge was a Christian socialist with a flair for nationalism and the original pledge was performed with a nazi-like salute. If my reasoning indicates anything, it's that I hate nazism and have an aversion to their tactics.

What does that matter? Other than you dislike nationalism which is a part of patriotism?
A salute not even used voids the pledge!??? Pure poppycock reasoning.
How it starts is not relevant to what it actually is. Or what it became.....if what it became is not
a perverted form of nationalism which Nazism was ! Nazi's had not our Constitution so the comparison fails right there IMHO.
Consider this the food we eat is often fertilized with shit ,yet the end product is ok! How it started and grew becomes irrelevant doesn't it. So Pledge is ok, you just for some reason don't like it. You have that freedom because of the millions that lived and died to defending freedom and this is how you choose to honor that sacrifice?? I reject that reasoning with logic, love of country, patriotism and knowledge that this nation served as a light to the entire world because of its Christian foundation.-Tyr




Apparently the jury's still out with you. :dunno:

I was not aware that AT was on trial for expressing his opinion here?
Animosity surely clouds your judgment on him IMHO. I have known him at least five
years longer than you have and you are far off the mark amigo with that judgment IMHO..
His service to this nation and his character speaks for itself here. I'll just leave it at that
for now.. ..-Tyr


Those are my opinion on your disagreement with AT as you presented it. Its not a personal
attack upon you. I am aware of your intelligence and analytical abilities. Seems both fail you where my friend is concerned. I guess bias does that along with its often errant passion IMHO.-Tyr

[darin]

It's clear to me - some people here love their god and their religion MORE than they love people.

[Abbey Marie]

I'd argue that having children recite a pledge to God and country isn't in the domain of government either, regardless of God or Allah. The Constitution doesn't say a thing about children's allegiance to Nation, Flag or God. Considering that the original pledge was written by a socialist, to include a salute consisting of the arm outstretched towards the flag, I think it goes without saying that it should raise a few concerns among conservatives.

Perhaps, but a separate point.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm talking about language. If they decided to say the pledge in a different language for a day as part of their lessons, it shouldn't be such a problem. Some of you are extending the outrage to say that Allah is a different God to the one in the pledge of allegiance in English. That is absurd.

Let's take a little walk down Imagination Lane. School children in Tehran are doing a little cultural lesson. They decide to recite a pledge to Iran in English, and use the word "God" in it.
Can't imagine it? Neither can I.

Language lessons can be and are accomplished in thousands of ways. Reciting the Pledge to your country in another language, and substituting the nomenclature for God as well, isn't a reasonable choice. But you already know that.

[aboutime]

That's baseless and irrelevant, but you're entitled to an opinion.

As to the question, yes I have:God.

Regarding my reasoning, and maybe this threatens the essence of your outrage over Allah, it's not the role of government to indoctrinate the youth into believing in America IMO. That doesn't imply that I hate America and, quite frankly, I'm abhorred that someone who dedicated a career to upholding the Constitution needs to be shown that nowhere in the document does it support such actions. Know why? Because the sum of human experience shows that if you have a good product, it sells itself.

Point of fact, the author of the pledge was a Christian socialist with a flair for nationalism and the original pledge was performed with a nazi-like salute. If my reasoning indicates anything, it's that I hate nazism and have an aversion to their tactics. Apparently the jury's still out with you. :dunno:


logroller. After reading your defensive motion above. I am convinced. You have no idea, nor any inkling about one simple word..Patriotism.

Sounds to me like you are incapable of being proud, or dedicating yourself to the preservation of our Nation...and insist your religious beliefs outweigh patriotism because you feel superior to everyone else who dares to say..I love my country.
There's no test involved. God doesn't prevent human beings from feeling proud. Why should you?

[jafar00]

Let's take a little walk down Imagination Lane. School children in Tehran are doing a little cultural lesson. They decide to recite a pledge to Iran in English, and use the word "God" in it.
Can't imagine it? Neither can I.

I can imagine it because when I speak to an Imam or other Muslims in English, they often talk about "God" which is His name in English. So, if the Iranians wanted to say it in English, they would also say God.

[Drummond]

I can imagine it because when I speak to an Imam or other Muslims in English, they often talk about "God" which is His name in English. So, if the Iranians wanted to say it in English, they would also say God.

Ah, but is it really the same God ?

Do Muslims in mosques pray to the same God as Jews would in synagogues ?

Jews and Muslims would disagree about which of them God wanted to support. Jafar, your buddies Hamas make it plain in their Charter that they follow their religion (.. as they would unwaveringly argue it ..) when launching their Jihadist activities against Israel. But somehow I doubt that Israelis would accept the theological legitimacy of a God craving their destruction, as Hamas does.

Am I right, or wrong ?

I fail to see how the same God can be an inspiration, or guide, to both sides simultaneously. So, regardless of the word, Jafar, when you use the word 'Allah', your conception of God cannot coincide with that God those of other faiths believe in.

So ....


I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

In your opinion, Jafar, whose God does this refer to ?

And in your opinion, whose God SHOULD it refer to ?

[namvet]

I can imagine it because when I speak to an Imam or other Muslims in English, they often talk about "God" which is His name in English. So, if the Iranians wanted to say it in English, they would also say God.

so MuhamMAD has fallin' from grace ??? we can call him a faggot dick suckin' bastard right ???

[Abbey Marie]

I can imagine it because when I speak to an Imam or other Muslims in English, they often talk about "God" which is His name in English. So, if the Iranians wanted to say it in English, they would also say God.

Our God is part of the Holy Trinity, Jafar. Three as one. I'm not sure how that fits in with Islam?

[darin]

People so caught-up in semantics. If people are FOR God, Love, etc, the language they use to call upon God is absolutely fucking inconsequential.

:)

[jimnyc]

People so caught-up in semantics. If people are FOR God, Love, etc, the language they use to call upon God is absolutely fucking inconsequential.

:)

In theory, just reading that, I agree with you. But here's my thought process....

The Quran and what it teaches is much different than in the Bible. When they teach these different things, they are always referring to "Allah". A ton of what is in the Quran is in direct conflict with what is in the Bible. It just seems to me that asking one to use the other almost mixes the 2 religions. And while the literal interpretation might be God and Allah being the same, those that use those names primarily are of different religions and beliefs.

And no disrespect meant to you, Jafar...

I think at least on our side of the world, the word "Allah" has been linked to so much violence across the world. Now when many hear "Allah" it goes immediately to "Allah Akbar" and the thousands and thousands and thousands of videos that have come out in the past 13 years alone, where those words were linked with severe violence and terrorism.

[darin]

I guess I give a damn about that stuff. I strive to do my part to focus upon the most-basic associations without implying shading towards one view or another. And I suppose I have no problem with people taking the best of both faiths and combining, because MY personal God said the most-important things (therefore the aspect that matters most) is to LOVE PEOPLE, and God. Just as God is much bigger and more-complex than the bible, God is also WAY beyond a Koran, torah, or whatever. The problem is the association people place on it. God IS great. Allāhu Akbar!

[logroller]

Perhaps, but a separate point.
Part and parcel to the issue IMO.



And in your opinion, whose God SHOULD it refer to ?
The God of he who takes the pledge.

[logroller]

In theory, just reading that, I agree with you. But here's my thought process....

The Quran and what it teaches is much different than in the Bible. When they teach these different things, they are always referring to "Allah". A ton of what is in the Quran is in direct conflict with what is in the Bible. It just seems to me that asking one to use the other almost mixes the 2 religions. And while the literal interpretation might be God and Allah being the same, those that use those names primarily are of different religions and beliefs.

And no disrespect meant to you, Jafar...

I think at least on our side of the world, the word "Allah" has been linked to so much violence across the world. Now when many hear "Allah" it goes immediately to "Allah Akbar" and the thousands and thousands and thousands of videos that have come out in the past 13 years alone, where those words were linked with severe violence and terrorism.
This is this issue IMO. If the God of the Bible is what the pledge refers, then doesn't the pledge violate the tenet of separation between church and state?
I've no issue with those who take the pledge, I've done it myself, but its a very personal decision and it should have a very personal meaning. It shouldn't be just toeing the line and I don't believe a child has the capacity to comprehend that meaning, so its empty rhetoric to a child. it's their decision when and if they choose to accept it-- that's liberty. When and if they choose to accept it, they may; buts its their decision, and an important one but it's been relegated to dogmatic rhetoric and that cheapens its meaning IMO.

[aboutime]

This is this issue IMO. If the God of the Bible is what the pledge refers, then doesn't the pledge violate the tenet of separation between church and state?
I've no issue with those who take the pledge, I've done it myself, but its a very personal decision and it should have a very personal meaning. It shouldn't be just toeing the line and I don't believe a child has the capacity to comprehend that meaning, so its empty rhetoric to a child. it's their decision when and if they choose to accept it-- that's liberty. When and if they choose to accept it, they may; buts its their decision, and an important one but it's been relegated to dogmatic rhetoric and that cheapens its meaning IMO.


logroller. Here we go again. First, in answering your constantly repeated question AGAIN.

Please, Please SHOW ALL OF US Where? Where in the U.S. Constitution, do the words Separation of Church and State appear?

As for the dogmatic aspect of this. Your rhetoric does that quite well.

[logroller]

logroller. Here we go again. First, in answering your constantly repeated question AGAIN.

Please, Please SHOW ALL OF US Where? Where in the U.S. Constitution, do the words Separation of Church and State appear?

As for the dogmatic aspect of this. Your rhetoric does that quite well.

The Anti-establishment clause reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Its in the first amendment. So if the God in the pledge is the God of the Bible, discriminate of the God of the Koran or the earth or whatever, then we have a law respecting the establishment of a religion. That's prohibited.

Perhaps you can show where in the constitution it says congress can pass laws about God, or even where it mentions God at all.

[aboutime]

The Anti-establishment clause reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Its in the first amendment. So if the God in the pledge is the God of the Bible, discriminate of the God of the Koran or the earth or whatever, then we have a law respecting the establishment of a religion. That's prohibited.

Perhaps you can show where in the constitution it says congress can pass laws about God, or even where it mentions God at all.


Once again, you twisted what I asked. I asked..."Where in the constitution...the words "Separation of Church, and State" appear.

That is not the answer log. I know what the 1st amendment says. AND...It does not use those words "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" either.

AMENDMENT ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I was specific with my question. YOU were not.

[jimnyc]

This is this issue IMO. If the God of the Bible is what the pledge refers, then doesn't the pledge violate the tenet of separation between church and state?
I've no issue with those who take the pledge, I've done it myself, but its a very personal decision and it should have a very personal meaning. It shouldn't be just toeing the line and I don't believe a child has the capacity to comprehend that meaning, so its empty rhetoric to a child. it's their decision when and if they choose to accept it-- that's liberty. When and if they choose to accept it, they may; buts its their decision, and an important one but it's been relegated to dogmatic rhetoric and that cheapens its meaning IMO.

I didn't venture into the COTUS or whether the Pledge is wrong or right. I simply gave my own thoughts/explanation as to why some would have an issue with this alteration, while others state it's exactly the same, just in a different language.

[logroller]

Once again, you twisted what I asked. I asked..."Where in the constitution...the words "Separation of Church, and State" appear.

That is not the answer log. I know what the 1st amendment says. AND...It does not use those words "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" either.

AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I was specific with my question. YOU were not.
I never mentioned that those words are in the Constitution...so what's your point?
I'd thought you wanted to discuss the relevance; not whether those words appear-- they don't( let's face it, you knew that when you asked-- I never said they appeared-- so why even ask it?
The tenet that I spoke of hails from the founding fathers themselves in their discussions on the Constitution and helps us to understand the intended meaning of the constitutional clause I described, the antiestablishment clause. If you want to know what the constitution says, verbatim, look it up-- I'm not your errand boy. If you want to discuss like an adult how that passage applies to the pledge and its underlying meaning then I'm willing.but I'm tired of childish games and I've tried long-enough to converse with you politely and I've only been accused of hating America, being unpatriotic, selfish and forcing my religion on others. So I'll just ignore you from now on; god speed.

[aboutime]

I never mentioned that those words are in the Constitution...so what's your point?
I'd thought you wanted to discuss the relevance; not whether those words appear-- they don't( let's face it, you knew that when you asked-- I never said they appeared-- so why even ask it?
The tenet that I spoke of hails from the founding fathers themselves in their discussions on the Constitution and helps us to understand the intended meaning of the constitutional clause I described, the antiestablishment clause. If you want to know what the constitution says, verbatim, look it up-- I'm not your errand boy. If you want to discuss like an adult how that passage applies to the pledge and its underlying meaning then I'm willing.but I'm tired of childish games and I've tried long-enough to converse with you politely and I've only been accused of hating America, being unpatriotic, selfish and forcing my religion on others. So I'll just ignore you from now on; god speed.

Never mind. Trying to talk reasonably with you is like talking to Old Robert. You can refuse to admit whatever you like. Your typed words haven't changed.
Too bad you must be just like all the other's who must always have that LAST WORD.

[jafar00]

Ah, but is it really the same God ?

Yes. There is only one.


Do Muslims in mosques pray to the same God as Jews would in synagogues ?

Yes.
And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah's name is much remembered (22:40)


so MuhamMAD has fallin' from grace ??? we can call him a faggot dick suckin' bastard right ???

We don't worship him. Your insult is worth nothing but your own peril in the afterlife.


Our God is part of the Holy Trinity, Jafar. Three as one. I'm not sure how that fits in with Islam?

We don't believe in a trinity. We believe, as the Jews do that God is one and only and unique requiring no partners.

Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.
(Surat Al Ikhlas)


In theory, just reading that, I agree with you. But here's my thought process....

The Quran and what it teaches is much different than in the Bible. When they teach these different things, they are always referring to "Allah". A ton of what is in the Quran is in direct conflict with what is in the Bible. It just seems to me that asking one to use the other almost mixes the 2 religions. And while the literal interpretation might be God and Allah being the same, those that use those names primarily are of different religions and beliefs.

And no disrespect meant to you, Jafar...

I think at least on our side of the world, the word "Allah" has been linked to so much violence across the world. Now when many hear "Allah" it goes immediately to "Allah Akbar" and the thousands and thousands and thousands of videos that have come out in the past 13 years alone, where those words were linked with severe violence and terrorism.

The Qur'aan actually confirms a lot of what is in the Bible but I'm not talking about what the Christians have today. It confirms the original Torah and Gospels although quite a lot of what is in the "Old Testament" is similar to the Qur'aan. I guess you are referring to the fact that the Qur'aan rejects the trinity?

As for the "Allahu Akbar" link to terrorism, I think you are being a little gullible. These people break Islamic laws and reject the covenants in the Qur'aan when they murder and pillage for worldly gains, yet you are willing to support them and give them an excuse because they say "Allahu Akbar" as they do it. It makes no sense to me.

Do you believe Joseph Kony is doing the work of Jesus because he says he does? Are Christians worldwide condemned because of the actions of his LRA?

[logroller]

And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah's name is much remembered (22:40)
....
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.
(Surat Al Ikhlas)

If when translating the pledge of alligiance from English to Arabic "God" is changed to "Allah" then why, when translating the passages above to English, does it remain "Allah" and isn't changed to "God"?

[jafar00]

If when translating the pledge of alligiance from English to Arabic "God" is changed to "Allah" then why, when translating the passages above to English, does it remain "Allah" and isn't changed to "God"?

Same thing, that's why, and the above is a translation of the Qur'aan.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If when translating the pledge of alligiance from English to Arabic "God" is changed to "Allah" then why, when translating the passages above to English, does it remain "Allah" and isn't changed to "God"?

Great point!!! You now have a spider caught in its own web.
Perhaps Jafar can tell us exactly which Muslim nations we can go into and start
REFERENCING ALLAH AS --GOD or YAWEH or CHRIST!!! I mean without ending up in prison, or dead!!
Most of those nations burn bibles and put any person caught bringing bibles into that country in jail or beaten to death/beheaded for blasphemy!

Appears the captured fly must now find a way to cut the web without cutting its own throat , eh? - :laugh:--TYR

[logroller]

Great point!!! You now have a spider caught in its own web.
Perhaps Jafar can tell us exactly which Muslim nations we can go into and start
REFERENCING ALLAH AS --GOD or YAWEH or CHRIST!!! I mean without ending up in prison, or dead!!
Most of those nations burn bibles and put any person caught bringing bibles into that country in jail or beaten to death/beheaded for blasphemy!

Appears the captured fly must now find a way to cut the web without cutting its own throat , eh? - :laugh:--TYR

Fwiw I've seen Arabic translations refer to God. A name does not make God, God IMO, it's what I believe Him to be that counts.

So far other's beliefs are concerned, they can call Him whatever they want. But I believe it should be said with respect and not mocked and ridiculed and, in light of Christ being mocked and ridiculed, a Christians should not behave as such.

But back the topic, children shouldn't be taking pledges that they don't understand. If an adult wants to swear allegiance to God and Country or Allah and Nation, that's their choice but, as Namvet so succinctly put it, "leave the children alone."

[jimnyc]

We don't believe in a trinity. We believe, as the Jews do that God is one and only and unique requiring no partners.

If we're to believe there is but ONE God, and this one is the same person we are talking about, then how do we reconcile the above? Just consider it the same God but we believe differently about him? It's hard to believe this is the same God when everything surrounding him is so different.


The Qur'aan actually confirms a lot of what is in the Bible but I'm not talking about what the Christians have today. It confirms the original Torah and Gospels although quite a lot of what is in the "Old Testament" is similar to the Qur'aan. I guess you are referring to the fact that the Qur'aan rejects the trinity?

As for the "Allahu Akbar" link to terrorism, I think you are being a little gullible. These people break Islamic laws and reject the covenants in the Qur'aan when they murder and pillage for worldly gains, yet you are willing to support them and give them an excuse because they say "Allahu Akbar" as they do it. It makes no sense to me.

Do you believe Joseph Kony is doing the work of Jesus because he says he does? Are Christians worldwide condemned because of the actions of his LRA?

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I gave reasoning as to why I think some may take issue with their kids changing God to Allah. There are a lot of people out there who likely never hear "Allah" unless about the horrid times I speak of. There is a very small percentage of Muslims in the USA and not everyone has Muslim friends or some understanding of the religion. Therefore, the mostly closely associated they come with the usage is terrorists. This is not my belief, just an explanation.

I don't understand the last sentence, as nowhere in my post did I condemn "all" Muslims, or ANY for that fact. I simply gave reasoning as to why some people may take issue with their children breaking away from the traditional pledge and stating it differently. How you got out of that that I was condemning all Muslims or someone supporting terrorists is beyond me! :)

[jimnyc]

Same thing, that's why, and the above is a translation of the Qur'aan.

But if a translation from the Quran, and into English - then why leave just one word in Arabic? A translation is a translation, I don't understand at all why one word would somehow remain in another language? :dunno:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Same thing, that's why, and the above is a translation of the Qur'aan.



Quote Originally Posted by jafar00

And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah's name is much remembered (22:40)
....
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.
(Surat Al Ikhlas)

No it is not a proper translation to English when it states Allah instead of the proper English name for God as --God! Not once but twice it states -Allah!

For your education Jafar is the link given below.-Tyr


http://www.letusreason.org/islam6.htm



Is Allah the Name of God?

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from al (the) ilah (deity).

The Arabic name for “God” is the word “Al-ilah.” It is a generic title for whatever god was considered the highest god. Different Arab tribes used “Allah” to refer to its personal high god. “Allah” was being worshipped at the Kaa’ba in Mecca by Arabs prior to the time of Mohammed. It was formerly the name of the chief god among the numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca before Mohammed made them into monotheists. Historians have shown that the moon god called “Hubal” was the god to whom Arabs prayed at the Kaa’ba and they used the name “Allah” when they prayed.

Today a Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.

Islam means submission to (Allah), but originally it meant that strength which characterized a desert warrior who, even when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death for his tribe. (Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972)

Many believe the word “Allah” was derived from the mid- eastern word “el” which in Ugaritic, Caananite and Hebrew can mean a true or false God. This is not the case, “The source of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning “God” (or a “god”), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity.” (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.)

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the supreme God. Before Islam the Arabs recognized many gods and goddesses, each tribe had their own deity. There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he invented Islam to lead his people out of their polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and Al-Manat, which were three goddesses; the first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)

“Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.” (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah? (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138).

History has shown Mecca and the holy stone al-Kaaba were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah meaning House of Allah. We are told it was first built in heaven. This is in contradistinction to what Moses was instructed to build, something overlooked by the Muslims in their reading of the Bible.

The Koran tells us that Mohammed drove the other idols away; he made one God now the only god and he was its messenger. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and confirmed that the black stone had the power to take away man's sins. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to the stone at least once in his lifetime. (Sura 22:26-37) No Old Testament saint ever had a pilgrimage to the Kaaba and kissed its black stone despite stories that Abraham and Ishmael restored it.

Mohammed used the name Allah which was formerly the name of a specific idol without ever distinguishing it from the idol the Meccan’s were already worshipping. This was a modification of their former worship but never a complete break. He never did say for the people to stop their worship of the wrong Allah, for the right one. It can still be monotheism and not be the God of the Bible

Al-Lat which is a T at the end of the name of Allah, was represented by a square stone whose major sanctuary was in the city of Taif. In the sanctuary was a black stone in the town of Qudayd between Mecca and Medina. She was the goddess of fate, a female counterpart of Allah. Al-uzza was the goddess of east Mecca. It has been said there were human sacrifices made to her and Islamic tradition tells of a story of Mohammed’s grandfather almost sacrificing his son the father of Mohammed to her. What prevented this was his seeking counsel from a fortune teller which told him to ransom his son with one hundred camels. Muslims look to this as the will of Allah to bring Mohammed into existence. (Reference Muhammad husain haykal, Hayat mohammed)

“The name Allah, as the Qur'an itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa.” (Arthur Jeffrey, ed., Islam: Muhammad and His Religion (1958), p. 85.)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jafar, I post historic truth about your religion. You disagree that's fine but it's not a personal attack upon you. Feel free to post any historical truth about the bible or characters in it. And I'll either agree or disagree.
But know this I post only what I judge to be true. I do not now and never will stoop to lying to make a false point or try to "win out".. Nothing in my mind could be more dishonorable that doing that on a message board. The truth needs no lies to verify its authority!
If I do make a mistake(error) it is at least an honest one. Just sayin'.. -Tyr

[jafar00]

If we're to believe there is but ONE God, and this one is the same person we are talking about, then how do we reconcile the above? Just consider it the same God but we believe differently about him? It's hard to believe this is the same God when everything surrounding him is so different.

The fact that we believe differently about Him is the reason why a succession of Prophets were sent to re-convey His message.

(Overly simplictic but...) The Jews went astray, so Jesus was sent to correct them.
Then, the Christians went astray so Mohamed (saw) was given the message again. This time it was recorded meticulously, not written down and re-interpreted hundreds of years after the revelation and revised many times as the Bible has been.


I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I gave reasoning as to why I think some may take issue with their kids changing God to Allah. There are a lot of people out there who likely never hear "Allah" unless about the horrid times I speak of. There is a very small percentage of Muslims in the USA and not everyone has Muslim friends or some understanding of the religion. Therefore, the mostly closely associated they come with the usage is terrorists. This is not my belief, just an explanation.

The OP says they recited the pledge in Arabic. God's name in Arabic is Allah. They didn't change anything. Al balad wahida, taht God instead of AL balad wahida, taht Allah, would not be Arabic. It would be a mixture of Arabic and English.


But if a translation from the Quran, and into English - then why leave just one word in Arabic? A translation is a translation, I don't understand at all why one word would somehow remain in another language? :dunno:

If you want to be picky, you can use some alternative translations :)


<tbody>
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0866855521?ie=UTF8&tag=islamawakened-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0866855521)

God, the Eternal, Absolute;
http://islamawakened.com/quran/images/zoom.jpg (http://islamawakened.com/quran/112/st31.htm#2)


Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar (http://www.kazi.org/Books/sublime-quran-1)

God, the Everlasting Refuge.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/images/zoom.jpg (http://islamawakened.com/quran/112/st46.htm#2)


Wahiduddin Khan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003M0OXAS?ie=UTF8&tag=islamawakened-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003M0OXAS)

God, the Self-sufficient One.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/images/zoom.jpg (http://islamawakened.com/quran/112/st38.htm#2)


T.B.Irving (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WFQTS0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000WFQTS0&linkCode=as2&tag=islamawakened-20)

God is the Source [for everything];


</tbody>
http://islamawakened.com/quran/112/2/


)

No it is not a proper translation to English when it states Allah instead of the proper English name for God as --God! Not once but twice it states -Allah!

It was just the translation I used. You can use others if you prefer. See my reply to Jim above.


For your education Jafar is the link given below.-Tyr

The link is in error from the first paragraph on.

Al Ilah means A god. Not The God. Trying to tack together Al and Ilah to get Allah shows the author has no idea what he is talking about, let alone a rudimentary grasp of simple grammar.

To put it in ways that you can understand from your early childhood....

Al Ilah is a Common Noun.
Allah is a Proper Noun.

In case you don't recall what the difference is, please educate yourself with the information I pasted below.
Common NounsA common noun is the word used for a class of person, place or thing.

Examples:



car
man
bridge
town
water
metal
ammonia

Note: Common nouns are capitalized only when they start a sentence.

Common nouns are further classified into:



Abstract nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/abstract_nouns.htm) – things you cannot see or touch (e.g., bravery, joy)
Collective nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/collective_nouns.htm) – words to describe groups (e.g., team, choir)
Compound nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/compound_nouns.htm) – nouns made up of more than one word (e.g., court-martial, pickpocket, water bottle)
Concrete nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/concrete_nouns.htm) – things you can see or touch (e.g., tree, cloud)
Non-countable nouns (mass nouns) (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/non-countable_nouns.htm) – things you cannot count (e.g., food, music)
Gender-specific nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/gender-specific_noun.htm) – words which are definitely male or female (e.g., vixen, actress)
Verbal nouns (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/verbal_nouns.htm) – nouns derived from verbs (e.g., a building, an attack)
Gerunds (http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/gerunds.htm) – nouns that represent actions (e.g., running fast, guessing a number)

Proper NounsA proper noun is the name of a person, place or thing (i.e., its own name). A proper noun always starts with a capital letter.

Examples:



Michael
Africa
Peking
Dayton Peace Accord
United Nations
The Tower of London
Uncle George(Uncle is written with a capital letter because it is part of his name.)

My favourite auntie is Auntie Sally.(In this example, the first auntie is a common noun, but the second Auntie is part of a proper noun.)

The Red Lion


Read more at http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/nouns_different_types.htm#xfPa1lU2AjowqqrT.99


Jafar, I post historic truth about your religion. You disagree that's fine but it's not a personal attack upon you.

As surmised by someone out to ridicule Islam with falsehood, but if you want to believe wrongly, it's up to you. I can't force you to learn.


Feel free to post any historical truth about the bible or characters in it. And I'll either agree or disagree.

Jesus was a Prophet, and not the begotten son of God. :poke:


But know this I post only what I judge to be true. I do not now and never will stoop to lying to make a false point or try to "win out".. Nothing in my mind could be more dishonorable that doing that on a message board. The truth needs no lies to verify its authority!
If I do make a mistake(error) it is at least an honest one. Just sayin'.. -Tyr

I truly believe you are seeking out the truth, but you are unfortunately being led astray by taking your information about Islam from sources who's goal is to spread falsehood in order to advance a Christian or Atheist agenda.

If I wanted information about Christianity, I would ask a Priest. If I wanted info about Judaism, I would ask a Rabbi. Why don't you go to an Imam to ask about Islam?

[aboutime]

We should all be asking jim to change the title of this thread to be "PROPAGANDA DEFENSE!"