Can Muslims go to Heaven [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Jeff

03-29-2014, 07:22 AM

A Muslim dies and by some error in handling, ends up going to Heaven.
He`s stopped at the Pearly Gates by St.Peter who says, 'Sorry, but we don`t
accept Muslims into Heaven.'
Why not ?? 'Well, we just don`t.'
The Muslim complains and carries on until St. Peter gets fed up.
'Well', says St. Peter, 'have you ever done anything good in your life?'
'Ummm..', the Muslim replies, 'Yes, the other day a lady stopped me on the
street collecting for a children`s charity so I gave her ten dollars.
Last week I donated ten dollars to the Cancer Society and a couple of weeks
ago a tramp asked me if I could spare any money so I gave him ten dollars
also.'
'Alrighty then', says St. Peter, 'wait here and I'll have a quick word with
God.'
Five minutes later St. Peter returns to the Muslim.
'Listen, I`ve spoken with God and he agrees with me, here`s your 30 dollars
back ...... now fuck off!

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

03-29-2014, 11:40 AM

jafar00

03-29-2014, 09:36 PM

Nope. Last laugh... Muslims :p

Jeff

03-29-2014, 11:29 PM

Nope. Last laugh... Muslims :p

So says you ;)

jafar00

03-30-2014, 05:15 AM

So says you ;)

Nope. So says God but anyway..... :slap:

Jeff

03-30-2014, 05:20 AM

Nope. Last laugh... Muslims :p

So says you ;)

Nope. So says God but anyway..... :slap:

God says Muslims will have the last laugh :poke: OK Then :laugh:

I get it this is the humor section and you just made a funny :laugh:

aboutime

04-01-2014, 01:17 PM

Nope. Last laugh... Muslims :p

jafar. Which would you choose? A shovel, or a ladder?

The shovel gets you there quicker, but the ladder is never long enough for you to get Out!

jafar00

04-01-2014, 07:10 PM

jafar. Which would you choose? A shovel, or a ladder?

The shovel gets you there quicker, but the ladder is never long enough for you to get Out!

Why would anyone want to leave Paradise? :)

Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity. (9:72)

aboutime

04-01-2014, 07:24 PM

Why would anyone want to leave Paradise? :)

Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity. (9:72)

Really. You call Paradise...the promise of 72 virgins, or One 72 year old virgin PARADISE?

jafar00

04-01-2014, 09:51 PM

Really. You call Paradise...the promise of 72 virgins, or One 72 year old virgin PARADISE?

The 72 virgins thing doesn't exist in my religion. The joke's on you :)

aboutime

04-01-2014, 09:58 PM

The 72 virgins thing doesn't exist in my religion. The joke's on you :)

Wrong. I didn't make it up. ALLAH SNACKBAR anyway.

Jeff

04-02-2014, 06:36 AM

Really. You call Paradise...the promise of 72 virgins, or One 72 year old virgin PARADISE?

Wrong. I didn't make it up. ALLAH SNACKBAR anyway.

72 year old virgin just shouldn't go in the same sentence as the word paradise and or snack bar :laugh:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-02-2014, 07:12 AM

The 72 virgins thing doesn't exist in my religion. The joke's on you :)
I noticed that you used the words "my religion" instead of the word =Islam. Is that a clever distinction you are trying to slip by?

If not explain this then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri

Al-Bukhari[edit]

Muhammad al-Bukhari (810 - 870) was a famous Sunni Islamic scholar most known for authoring the most authentic hadith collection named Sahih al-Bukhari

"...everyone will have two wivesF from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh."

—Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 54 "The Beginning of Creation", hadith 476)[35]

They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their censers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in stature), sixty cubits tall.

—Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 55 "Prophets", hadith 544[17][18]

Muslim[edit]

Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri (821 - 875) was a famous Sunni Islamic scholar most known for authoring the authentic hadith collection named Sahih Muslim

Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu'l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wivesG and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.

—Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri, Sahih Muslim, Book 40 "Pertaining to Paradise", hadith 6793[36]

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I was shown Paradise and I saw the wife of Abu Talha (i. e. Umm Sulaim) and I heard the noise of steps before me and, lo, it was that of Bilal.

—Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri, Sahih Muslim, Book 31 "Pertaining to the Merits of the Companions", hadith 6012[37]

Al-Tirmidhi[edit]

Abu `Isa Muhammad ibn `Isa at-Tirmidhi (At-Tirmidhi) (824 - 892) was a medieval collector of hadiths, some deemed controversial and unreliable.[38]

Al-Hasan Al-Basri says that an old woman came to the messenger of Allah and made a request, O’ Messenger of Allah make Dua that Allah grants me entrance into Jannah. The messenger of Allah replied, O’ Mother, an old woman cannot enter Jannah. That woman started crying and began to leave. The messenger of Allah said, Say to the woman that one will not enter in a state of old age, but Allah will make all the women of Jannah young virgins. Allah Ta’aala says, Lo! We have created them a (new) creation and made them virgins, lovers, equal in age.

—Al-Tirmidhi, Jami` at-Tirmidhi (Surah Waaqi’ah, 35-37).[39]

Muhammad was heard say: "The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy two wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from [Damascus] to San'a.

—Al-Tirmidhi, The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah[40] (This hadith has a weak chain of narrators)[38]

A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings.

—Al-Tirmidhi, Jami` at-Tirmidhi[41]

Ibn Majah[edit]

Ibn Majah (824 - 887) was a medieval hadith collector, not all authentic. His collection is named the Sunan ibn Majah.

Houris do not want wives to annoy their husbands, since the houris will also be the wives of the husbands in the afterlife. "Mu’adh bin Jobal (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, 'A woman does not annoy her husband but his spouse from amongst the maidens with wide eyes intensely white and deeply black will say: Do not annoy him, may Allah ruin you." He is with you as a passing guest. Very soon, he will part with you and come to us.

—Ibn Majah, Sunan ibn Majah[42][43]

Sahabah and Tabi‘un[edit]

The Sahabah were the companions of Muhammad while the Tabi‘un were contemperiaries of the Sahabah who were born after the death of Muhammad.

Abu Huraira[edit]

Abu Huraira mentions houri between a dispute of if there were more women or men going to paradise.[36]

Abu Ubayda[edit]

Abu Ubaidah ibn al Jarrah (Abu Ubayda) said that the recreated women of this life referring to

We have created (their Companions) of special creation.
And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -

—Quran, sura 56 (Al-Waqia), ayat 35-36[44]

were mentioned in the previous verse:

And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-

—Quran, sura 56 (Al-Waqia), ayat 22[45]

quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir ibn Kathir (Quranic Commentary) of sura 56 (Al-Waqia), ayat 35-36.[46]

Damrah bin Habib[edit]

Artat bin Al-Mundhir said:

Damrah bin Habib was asked if the Jinns will enter Paradise and he said, 'Yes, and they will get married. The Jinns will have Jinn women and the humans will have female humans.'

—Ibn Kathir, Tafsir ibn Kathir

Quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir ibn Kathir of sura Rahman (55), ayah (verse) 56:

In these [gardens - paradise] will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being [Jinn] will have touched them then [after they have been created again].

—Ibn Kathi, Tafsir Ibn Kathir[47]

Al-Hasan Al-Basri[edit]

Al-Hasan al-Basri said that the word houri implies the righteous women among mankind who are rewarded with paradise as related in the Tafsir of Tabari quoted by Muhammad Asad in his tafsir "Message of Quran"[48] concerning the following ayah:

We have created (their Companions) of special creation.
And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -

—Quran, sura 56 (Al-Waqia), ayat 35-36[44]

Muhammad was heard say: "The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy two wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from [Damascus] to San'a.

eighty thousand servants and seventy two wives,

^^^ There is 72 wives as previously noted made to be virgins again by Allah. Thus the promise of 72 virgins !!
Glad I could straighten that out for you.
Now was your wording ("my religion") intended to cleverly step aside from this general information that the majority of the other muslims believe??
Perhaps you have a different version of Islam than the majority does? .. ----------Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-02-2014, 08:04 AM

There is 72 wives as previously noted made to be virgins again by Allah. Thus the promise of 72 virgins !!
Glad I could straighten that out for you.
Now was your wording ("my religion") intended to cleverly step aside from this general information that the majority of the other muslims believe??
Perhaps you have a different version of Islam than the majority does? .. ----------Tyr

^^^^^ Taken from my previous post.

Additionally added is this

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/72_virgins_in_paradise/

“Serving [the believers] will be immortal youths with jeweled and crystal cups filled with the purest wine which will neither give them headache nor hangover, with fruits and meats of their desire. They will be fair ones with lovely intense eyes like guarded pearls; A reward for the good deeds of their past life.” (56:17-24)
“We have created mates for them and made them virgins, matched in age, for the companions of the right hand.” (56:35-38)

“They will be chaste, restraining their eyes in modesty, never touched by man or Jinn.”(55:56)

“Serving them will be immortal servants. When you see them, they will look like scattered pearls.” (76:19)

The Islamic scholar Yusuf Ali defines the word “Houris” in his english interpretation of Qur’an as “Youths of perpetual freshness.” He also described them in his commentary: “The companionship of Beauty and Grace is one of the highest pleasures of life. In this bodily life it takes bodily form. In the higher life it takes a higher form…The pronoun in Arabic is in the feminine gender. It is made clear that these maidens for heavenly society will be of special creation,-of virginal purity, grace, and beauty, inspiring and inspired by love, with the question of time and age eliminated.”
The Houris are basically creations of God, intelligent yet soulless and created to serve the believer who goes to Paradise. They are created for the purpose of serving the believer, and as such, they dont exactly have free will. They are described as pure, beautiful, lustrous, virgin, and more perfect than any human on earth. Imagine the woman of your dreams.

Women aren’t left out: A man in paradise will get numerous female servants for himself, while a woman would get male servants. The Quran says that women shall be compensated just as well and says about the believers that “they” (the gender unspecified) shall have perfected mates/spouses as a reward of their deeds (2:25, 3:15, 4:57). So women will get the man of their dreams. Actually, even better than you could dream of.

In Paradise, you can marry them. You can interpret the “mates” as being spouses. Even if you were married on earth, they will be invisible to your spouse. Islam is pretty clear in saying that guiltless sex is a reward in Paradise. Since they are more like spouses, they will probably be given the status of one instead of a servant.

There is no direct evidence in the Qur’an to support there being 70 or 72 for each person. The numerical value of 70 is derived from a Quranic commentary by Quranic scholar Ibn Kathir. The number 72 comes from a hadith that says “‘The smallest reward [each] for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from [Damascus] to [Yemen].’”

Do Muslims believe it literally? Are they required to? This particular Hadith has technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered 100% authenticly faultless, though it is listed in an authoritative collection. As a result, Muslims are not required to believe in it, though many inevitably do (but an even more respectable Hadith with virtually the same message can be found in a separate hadith collection). Most muslims believe that they will experience incredible physical pleasures when they enter heaven, and that you will be happier in heaven than you could possibly be in this life. Some say that the houris are a metaphor for the ineffable joys of the afterlife. “Ineffable” is the perfect word to describe it, since Allah promises rewards beyond imagination, meaning you can’t even guess what reward lies ahead since there is no equal on Earth. Ergo, if you can imagine the greatest, richest, best thing in this life, then what will actually be there will be even better

Now apparently that's an American muslim speaking so is American Islam wrong too.??-Tyr

Gaffer

04-02-2014, 08:16 AM

This kind of stuff doesn't even fall into the mythological category, it's pure fantasy. Who make up these virgins. wives, sisters, daughters? These guys are really hung up on subservient women. And women so pure you can see the marrow of their bones? Now there's a sensual site. I'm sure the women just can't wait to be made one of 72 others put there just to please the man. Not to mention 80,000 servants working around his modest home. Talk about a war on women.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-02-2014, 09:38 AM

aboutime

04-02-2014, 02:37 PM

72 year old virgin just shouldn't go in the same sentence as the word paradise and or snack bar :laugh:

Agreed Jeff. It's an Insult to SNACK BARS everywhere. By the way. Jeff Dunham uses that 72 year old virgin line with ACHMED..the terrorist. But, much to his displeasure...The 72 Year Old Virgin is MALE.http://icansayit.com/images/achmed.gif

jafar00

04-02-2014, 07:10 PM

I noticed that you used the words "my religion" instead of the word =Islam. Is that a clever distinction you are trying to slip by?

If not explain this then.

The 72 "WIVES" (in arabic), not virgins hadith is Gharib (strange). Of course, wiki doesn't mention anything about weak chains of narration or plain fabricated hadiths. They are just quoted without further consideration. A Gharib hadith only exists as an example to point out to students that it is weak and not to be used for doctrine or law.

In any case, 72 wives or 72 virgins is an obscure thing you like to cling on to for the purpose of ridiculing our beliefs. I don't know why. We don't ridicule you for the belief that when you go to heaven, you will sprout wings, be issued a harp and a halo and spend eternity on a little cloud do we?

Allegory is a thing. Look it up.

BTW, "my religion" is Islam. I thought you knew :p

This kind of stuff doesn't even fall into the mythological category, it's pure fantasy. Who make up these virgins. wives, sisters, daughters? These guys are really hung up on subservient women. And women so pure you can see the marrow of their bones? Now there's a sensual site. I'm sure the women just can't wait to be made one of 72 others put there just to please the man. Not to mention 80,000 servants working around his modest home. Talk about a war on women.

You're the one hung up on this. There are hundreds of other descriptions of Paradise in strong Hadiths and in the Qur'aan, yet you stick to just this weak, incorrectly translated hadith just to ridicule and scoff at us.

Gaffer

04-02-2014, 08:45 PM

The 72 "WIVES" (in arabic), not virgins hadith is Gharib (strange). Of course, wiki doesn't mention anything about weak chains of narration or plain fabricated hadiths. They are just quoted without further consideration. A Gharib hadith only exists as an example to point out to students that it is weak and not to be used for doctrine or law.

In any case, 72 wives or 72 virgins is an obscure thing you like to cling on to for the purpose of ridiculing our beliefs. I don't know why. We don't ridicule you for the belief that when you go to heaven, you will sprout wings, be issued a harp and a halo and spend eternity on a little cloud do we?

Allegory is a thing. Look it up.

BTW, "my religion" is Islam. I thought you knew :p

You're the one hung up on this. There are hundreds of other descriptions of Paradise in strong Hadiths and in the Qur'aan, yet you stick to just this weak, incorrectly translated hadith just to ridicule and scoff at us.

Yes I do scoff. But I'm not hung up on anything. As you say there are hundreds of descriptions of paradise, as y'all call it, so which one do you look forward too. So what does a wife have to look forward to other than being subservient to a man? Or do they have their own version of things?

There's something wrong with any religion that needs to be interpreted by many people,which is all hadiths are.

jafar00

04-02-2014, 10:48 PM

Yes I do scoff. But I'm not hung up on anything. As you say there are hundreds of descriptions of paradise, as y'all call it, so which one do you look forward too. So what does a wife have to look forward to other than being subservient to a man? Or do they have their own version of things?

Woman have to look forward to an afterlife of abject luxury where all their needs are tended to. Just the same as men.

We have more than just a few hadiths to give us our religion. The Qur'aan is the best source. The following two verses alone show that the rewards of Paradise are for both Men and Women.

Whosoever does an evil deed will be requited only with the like of it; and whosoever acts righteously and has attained to faith -- be he a male or a female -- they shall enter Paradise and be provided sustenance beyond all reckoning. (40:40)

Surely the men who submit (to Allah) and the women who submit (to Allah), the men who have faith and the women who have faith, the men who are obedient and the women who are obedient, the men who are truthful and the women who are truthful; the men who are steadfast and the women who are steadfast, the men who humble themselves (to Allah) and the women who humble themselves (to Allah), the men who give alms and the women who give alms, the men who fast and the women who fast, the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard their chastity, the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah much: for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and a mighty reward. (33:35)

There's something wrong with any religion that needs to be interpreted by many people,which is all hadiths are.

Are you saying the Christianity also has something wrong? All religion is open to interpretation. You just have to be careful to follow the best of interpretations so you do not go astray.

Jeff

04-03-2014, 06:50 AM

You just have to be careful to follow the best of interpretations so you do not go astray.

And your interpretation is the only correct one :rolleyes: yes millions see it one way but they are all fake :laugh:

Gaffer

04-03-2014, 07:49 AM

Woman have to look forward to an afterlife of abject luxury where all their needs are tended to. Just the same as men.

We have more than just a few hadiths to give us our religion. The Qur'aan is the best source. The following two verses alone show that the rewards of Paradise are for both Men and Women.

Are you saying the Christianity also has something wrong? All religion is open to interpretation. You just have to be careful to follow the best of interpretations so you do not go astray.

Then who makes up these servants and wives if everyone is pampered?

And yes Christianity does. I did say any religion.

I made a statement. Any religion that needs to be interpreted has something wrong with it. That's a simple statement and no one needs to interpret it's meaning. And I am referring to what is said, not what language it was said in. If this statement came from the koran there would be a hundred different hadiths about it's meaning and whether it was taken out of context. Six of which would be considered major hadiths to be followed, and 40 not quite so great, and 54 as goof balls.

I'm concentrating on islam here but the same can be said of any religion. People have a belief to get them through the reality of life. To have something to look forward to either in this life or an after life. They put human traits to something that is beyond their comprehension. Love, hate, jealousy, subservience, obedience, sacrifice are all traits no omnipotent creator would have. Those are flaws. The so called holy books are filled with these flaws, especially the koran, after all it's suppose to have been dictated directly while the bible is just third person descriptions of events.

Quoting passages at me means nothing. Counter me with your own thoughts and comments. I don't get into knocking peoples religion even when I think they are imbecilic. But I do knock islam as it is a direct danger to all societies. It was born of war and conquest and that continues today even in islamic societies. And don't use some backward 4th world african country with ignorant fools beheading and shooting people and calling themselves christians as examples.

God is whatever you make it out to be.

aboutime

04-03-2014, 12:17 PM

This is laughable, at best. Is there HONESTLY, any member here who can PROVE...after we die. We go anywhere other than six feet under, or confined to an URN, placed on a mantel or shelf for ETERNITY?

Of course. My Christian teachings of more than 60 years has reminded me of a Heaven, and Hell. I use the Bible as my guide in life. So I have been told. When I die I will either go to Heaven, or Hell.

Personally. Due to my beliefs in GOD, as a Christian. I am convinced God has placed all of us in what HE calls Hell, because WE ARE ALL SINNERS. And the only way to meet in eternity, Heaven. Is to share the Love he has given us with others as GOOD, KIND, HONEST, UNSELFISH Human beings.
Violate any of those rules while alive....then only YOU know where you may end up.

I am prepared to hear all of the screaming, and anger. However. I still believe I do not have to make excuses, nor must I explain WHY I believe, or have Faith in someone we call GOD.
I am only answerable to HIM. Because I believe.
If you disagree. So be it.

jafar00

04-03-2014, 07:02 PM

Then who makes up these servants and wives if everyone is pampered?

And yes Christianity does. I did say any religion.

I made a statement. Any religion that needs to be interpreted has something wrong with it. That's a simple statement and no one needs to interpret it's meaning. And I am referring to what is said, not what language it was said in. If this statement came from the koran there would be a hundred different hadiths about it's meaning and whether it was taken out of context. Six of which would be considered major hadiths to be followed, and 40 not quite so great, and 54 as goof balls.

I think you partly understand. The study of hadith takes years at a University (Like Al Azhar in Cairo). You can't just read a book and consider yourself knowledgeable which is the mistake (maybe intentional) that the likes of Al Qaeda and the Taliban make. The concept of Takfir where they read a few books and consider themselves scholars then go around telling other Muslims they are wrong is a cancer in many uneducated backwaters and leads people astray from the straight and narrow. It's all about power and corruption.

The "interpretation" I follow is mainstream and taken from the four established schools of thought which were born of centuries of scholarly debate and study. The basics of Islam are very easy to follow though and require no interpretation. Pray, Fast, Give charity, Go on pilgrimage if you can, and just believe in God and accept Mohamed (saw) as His messenger.

And don't use some backward 4th world african country with ignorant fools beheading and shooting people and calling themselves christians as examples.

Why not? You do the same when there is a chance to make Muslims appear bad. Islam is not the threat you appear to think it is. It is the solution.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

04-04-2014, 07:16 AM

I think you partly understand. The study of hadith takes years at a University (Like Al Azhar in Cairo). You can't just read a book and consider yourself knowledgeable which is the mistake (maybe intentional) that the likes of Al Qaeda and the Taliban make. The concept of Takfir where they read a few books and consider themselves scholars then go around telling other Muslims they are wrong is a cancer in many uneducated backwaters and leads people astray from the straight and narrow. It's all about power and corruption.

The "interpretation" I follow is mainstream and taken from the four established schools of thought which were born of centuries of scholarly debate and study. The basics of Islam are very easy to follow though and require no interpretation. Pray, Fast, Give charity, Go on pilgrimage if you can, and just believe in God and accept Mohamed (saw) as His messenger.

Why not? You do the same when there is a chance to make Muslims appear bad. Islam is not the threat you appear to think it is. It is the solution.

Why not? You do the same when there is a chance to make Muslims appear bad. Islam is not the threat you appear to think it is. It is the solution.

^^^ YAYAYA, Hitler had a solution too. It was to murder all the Jews same on Islam has . Same one Hamas has. You support Hamas do you not??? I rest my case.
A word of advice, perhaps you need to stop lying to yourself. No true Muslim (as you described Muslims) could support Hamas. No man can serve two masters and be true to both.. I think that you have a roadblock in faith that you are refusing to face. That is when a man claims to renounce evil yet cheers on an evil murdering group.
Stop trying to ride two horses is my advice , take it as friendly advice Hoss.. An observation from one that once tried to ride three horses long ago.-Tyr