The contempt shown to parents of large families

[-Cp]

A Great Article!

The contempt shown to parents of large families



A funny thing happened to me the other day when my wife and I had, thank God, another baby (a boy). Many of my friends didn't seem all that happy for me. Sure, they went through the motions of smiles and congratulations. But it was evident that many thought me insane. Why would a young man and his wife ruin their lives with eight children? Who could afford the Jewish day-school bills? Didn't we want to live life a little, and not just be burdened with kids?

It got downright surreal when a European film company, pressed me, while my wife was in labor, to finish shooting a segment that had an urgent deadline (I obviously told them they were insane). And the next day, I was mildly criticized by a Jewish organization which was supposed to be hosting me for a lecture for having to cancel on them because the lecture clashed with the baby's bris.

I don't mind that the world doesn't really love babies, just that it pretends to. It's time we got honest about our priorities. Most people get a new car every two or three years, but one or two babies through the life of their marriage is plenty. You can get drunk on an airplane, laugh hysterically with your mates, and still not really anger people. But if you dare bring a crying baby on board you will be given malicious looks as if the little thing is a package that ticks. If you walk your dog along the street, people will stop you to tell you how cute he is. If you walk down the street with a baby, you might find a woman or two who coos, but for the most part, you'll be utterly ignored.

Indeed, the contempt shown to parents of many children is the last acceptable prejudice in our society. As a father of a large family, I find myself apologizing wherever I go, as if I committed a crime. The frequent and loaded stares from scornful onlookers imply that the famine in Africa was caused by my selfish insistence on overpopulating the earth. Long ago my wife and I discovered that few hotels were prepared to accommodate so many children, even if we took three of four rooms, which is why we bought an RV for travel.

How strange to live in a world where loving children casts one in infamy. Having a family with many children implies a backwardness and primitivism that is deemed unbecoming in the developed countries of the West. Large families, it is thought, exist only among religious weirdoes or the teeming hovels of the Third World.

Rich countries, by contrast, prefer to increase their standard of living rather than the number of the living. Looking at Western birth rates for the year 2001, the United States averaged only 14.2 births for every thousand Americans, and the birthrate among white Americans is so low that the United States will soon lose its white majority. Indeed, one can go for days in a wealthy city like Manhattan without encountering a single pregnant woman. Riches and children have become inversely proportional such that the more of the former, the less of the latter.

Hence, the high birth rates of extremely poor African nations like Uganda – at 47.52 births per 1,000 – or Niger with 50.68 births per 1,000, are deemed to be prime causes and indicators of their penury. The abundant fertility and unconstrained sexuality of these countries confirms the unspoken Western mindset of these country's inhabitants as being just one step above savages. Contraception has become a synonym for civilization.

A Christian mother of six once wrote to me, "I find it troubling to worry about getting pregnant again ... because I don't want to face the criticism of friends and family. Why do people not see children as a blessing?" A fair question which deserves a fair response.

Why is it that even many snagogues today are not children friendly? Why are people impressed that Jay Leno owns 20 motorcycles, but disgusted that some religious families choose to have 10 children?

Let's not finesse the response. We all know why. A world that has lost its innocence has trouble appreciating beings who are innocent. A world that has become selfish has soured to the idea of leading a life of selflessness. A world that has become grossly materialistic is turned off to the idea of more dependents who consume resources. And a world that mistakenly believes that freedom means a lack of responsibility is opposed to the idea of needy creatures who "tie you down."

They can go fly a kite.

By just looking at my children, I become more innocent. By loving them, I become more noble. By spending my money on them rather than myself, I find transcendence. And by being a father and liberating all of the love in my heart, my spirit soars free. I work hard to support a large family and I give up no pleasures in doing so because my children are my foremost pleasure.


I am often asked by women dating men how to tell whether they are marriage material. I tell them, "See if he enjoys children." A man who loves children is playful. He will spend his life joking with his wife because he loves to see her laugh, and will flirt with her because he loves to see her smile.

There was a time when husbands and wives worked hard to ensure they could afford the blessings of a large family. Today, the higher your earning bracket the fewer children you have, but then we always knew that many turn money from a blessing into a curse.

Before he died, the Lubavitcher Rebbe launched a campaign asking parents to have one more child than they originally planned. It is a campaign that a dwindling Jewish community should revive as it continues to disappear.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49074

[darin]

Let's get this out of the way:

"JUNK psychology by a FAKE expert! I bet his KIDS are ALL fake, or at least from some no-name hospital!!"

[-Cp]

Let's get this out of the way:

"JUNK psychology by a FAKE expert! I bet his KIDS are ALL fake, or at least from some no-name hospital!!"

LOL! That's an awesome impression of the ninnies who post in the threads about Creation vs. Man's ideas...

[jillian]

LOL! That's an awesome impression of the ninnies who post in the threads about Creation vs. Man's ideas...

And your constant derision of anyone who doesn't share your views is always apparent.

But yeah... we should love junk science, right? You should be able to muddy the waters and pretend there's some scientific basis for your beliefs when it is only your "faith" that supports?

Why do you need everyone to believe the same thing as you and give you a pass on scientific method because your reading of the bible tells you to?

[Nienna]

I had a close family member say to me, when I told this person I was pregnant with my fourth, "Well... better not make it FIVE." :(

[-Cp]

I had a close family member say to me, when I told this person I was pregnant with my fourth, "Well... better not make it FIVE." :(

GO FOR IT! 5 Would be cool - then you can go for six to break the tie we'd be in at #5 :)

[Nienna]

GO FOR IT! 5 Would be cool - then you can go for six to break the tie we'd be in at #5 :)

A woman told me once that she thought I would have six kids, but seems like we're stopping with four. If God gives us more, we will love them, though. And luckily, my husband is pretty supportive about my staying home with them... :) And HE is even involved with them, too! :)

[darin]

And your constant derision of anyone who doesn't share your views is always apparent.

But yeah... we should love junk science, right? You should be able to muddy the waters and pretend there's some scientific basis for your beliefs when it is only your "faith" that supports?

Why do you need everyone to believe the same thing as you and give you a pass on scientific method because your reading of the bible tells you to?

Jillian - My reply was funny. No need to preach in this thread. Just laugh at yourself. Geesh.

[jillian]

And HE is even involved with them, too! :)

That's nice, of course, but why wouldn't he be involved with them? They're his kids, too, yes?

[Gaffer]

The number of kids a family choses to have is really up to them and whether they can afford a lot of kids. Now days economics determines a lot of peoples choice to have large families. Housing, food costs and quality of living are an important factor.

[-Cp]

The number of kids a family choses to have is really up to them and whether they can afford a lot of kids. Now days economics determines a lot of peoples choice to have large families. Housing, food costs and quality of living are an important factor.

Anyone CAN afford any amount of kids they have... The family on the TLC show was a great example.. they have their own garden and have trained their kids how to hunt deer... they only have to spend about $100 / week at a grocery store...

The problem is, however, that many parents are more worried about the area they live in and the cars they drive rather than MOVE to a more affordable place and drive a used car....

[jillian]

Anyone CAN afford any amount of kids they have... The family on the TLC show was a great example.. they have their own garden and have trained their kids how to hunt deer... they only have to spend about $100 / week at a grocery store...

The problem is, however, that many parents are more worried about the area they live in and the cars they drive rather than MOVE to a more affordable place and drive a used car....

Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.

Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.

[darin]

Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.



How is it presumptuous? I mean why point that out?

"Many" is a very loose term...which allows for exceptions. A body would have to be daft to disagree that 'many' folk are too concerned with financial status to have more kids. They lie to themselves and say stuff like "Well, first we have to get financially secure!" as they drive away in their $40,000 car.

If you had TWO Children, Jillian, your love and attention would MULTIPLY...not DIVIDE. ;)


I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.


Well - that may be one of your shortfalls, but it's wrong to project that opinion on that family. I give the parents the benefit of the doubt here. I bet their respective relationships with their kids are closer than many parents with only 1 or 2 kids.


You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.

Pretty self-centered, if you ask me. So what you don't have an interest in gardening...people often get used to new things REAL quick when they have to.

I once knew a guy who refused a few bags of groceries because they weren't the brand-name groceries...generic and off-brand products. He learned after awhile to drop his f'ing PRIDE and accept stuff to help his family.

The point is, We live in a SELFISH society. Most of us suffer from a degree of selfishness. The more selfish we get the more we dont-want kids for the WRONG reasons.

:)

[The ClayTaurus]

Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.

Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.Clearly, you don't think children are a blessing, you heartless bitch!

[-Cp]

Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

Outside of the fact that pattern will ultimately lead to a population decline -- I never said there's anything wrong - I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.


People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves.


I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...


Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.

1. You'd learn to love it - or raise your own cows.
2. You'd learn to have an interest in the interest of taking care of your kids and feeding them properly.

[The ClayTaurus]

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...I can't wait for the outrage over this needless personal attack. :no:

[jillian]

Outside of the fact that pattern will ultimately lead to a population decline -- I never said there's anything wrong - I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.

Your arrogance is astounding. And you wonder why your positions aren't taken seriously, huh?


Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves.

Actually, I have a pretty extraordinary child. Gifted/talented, polite, generous and caring. Can be taken absolutely anywhere because he's well-mannered and knows how to conduct himself in public. Oh yeah... he also plays piano and got his black belt in tae kwon do at 7.

So, if I were you, I'd get down off of that soap box and stop being an arrogant twit. Your concept of what life is supposed to be might be ok for you, but it isn't the life I would ever choose. The difference is, I'd never be stupid enough to suggest that my choices are superior to yours, although, to be fair, I think I'm giving my son a great life.


A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

What a stupid thing to say... seriously.



1. You'd learn to love it - or raise your own cows.
2. You'd learn to have an interest in the interest of taking care of your kids and feeding them properly.

My son eats fine thanks, you self-satisfied, arrogant twirp.

[5stringJeff]

Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves.

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

Both of these paragraphs are totally uncalled for. Just because someone only has one kid, does not mean that a) they are selfish, b) their kid is spoiled, or c) that person shouldn't procreate.

[KitchenKitten99]

People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.
so just because I CHOSE to have two kids, and want more, means they don't get all the self-centered attention that you think just one kid deserves?

My boys AND my daycare kids get all the attention they want. I have my 3yo who is speech delayed but in preschool for it, my 8.5mo baby who is a big mamma's boy already, my 2yo daycare boy Paul who makes me laugh with his constant quoting of Thomas the train, and my 4yo daycare girl Grace who is always being too big for her britches, and Hunter, my 3mo daycare baby who has such a cute smile. They all get my attention, most times at the same time. And, they learn how to share my attention with each other.

I totally want another baby. But physically I cannot have them. So, we are looking into adoption and surrogate mothers.

[Gaffer]

Anyone CAN afford any amount of kids they have... The family on the TLC show was a great example.. they have their own garden and have trained their kids how to hunt deer... they only have to spend about $100 / week at a grocery store...

The problem is, however, that many parents are more worried about the area they live in and the cars they drive rather than MOVE to a more affordable place and drive a used car....

Not everyone can afford a lot of kids. A lot of kids means a larger house. Means more food costs. Not everyone are fortunate enough to live in areas where they can hunt and garden.

What qualifies as a more affordable place where your concerned? Most of the cheaper housing I have seen is in the urban rundown parts of the city. Country housing is much more expensive.

You have a quaint view of things. Live off the land and drive an old car that you have to repair monthly. Reality is another story. Bedroom space becomes a premium. The car has to carry at least eight. Food is a major necessity for a large family, especially as they become teenagers. Athletics and after school activities play a big part in the car use.

You have a Waltons view of things and its just not practical in todays world.

[The ClayTaurus]

so just because I CHOSE to have two kids, and want more, means they don't get all the self-centered attention that you think just one kid deserves?Where the fuck are you people getting this from? Seriously.

[-Cp]

Not everyone can afford a lot of kids. A lot of kids means a larger house. Means more food costs. Not everyone are fortunate enough to live in areas where they can hunt and garden.

Then move to a new area where you can do that.


What qualifies as a more affordable place where your concerned? Most of the cheaper housing I have seen is in the urban rundown parts of the city. Country housing is much more expensive.

Hardly the case - living in rural areas is almost always cheaper than living closer to town - assuming the house is identical.


You have a quaint view of things. Live off the land and drive an old car that you have to repair monthly. Reality is another story.

We drive a van that's 10-years old and we don't have to "repair it monthly" - jeesh...


Bedroom space becomes a premium..


*gasp* make the kids bunk up!


The car has to carry at least eight. Food is a major necessity for a large family, especially as they become teenagers. Grow a garden in the property you've acquired from moving into a more rural area.


Athletics and after school activities play a big part in the car use.

Home school the kids..... they don't "NEED" after school activities - Lord knows they'll have enough activities around the house.


You have a Waltons view of things and its just not practical in todays world.

Really? Tell that to the family on the TLC Show "Kids by the Dozen" who are thriving with having had 16 kids - a 17th being adopted.

You have a "today's world" view of things that is destroying the moral fiber of what made this country great. It's plagued with self-absortion, consumerism and "it's all about you" - mentality.

[Grumplestillskin]

Outside of the fact that pattern will ultimately lead to a population decline -- I never said there's anything wrong - I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.

Some could argue it is selfish to have lots of kids because 1) You can't afford to give them a good life 2) You can't possibly give them the attention they deserve.


Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves..

1) You've met Jill's kid? Far out! 2) What is wrong with wanting to have a fulfilling life yourself? Should life be all about self-sacrifice? Why can't you have both - a loving family and material things?


1. You'd learn to love it - or raise your own cows.
2. You'd learn to have an interest in the interest of taking care of your kids and feeding them properly.

And you have to have a tonne of kids, hunt deer and spend $100 on groceries to met those criteria.....ppppfffftttt:lol:

[Grumplestillskin]

You have a "today's world" view of things that is destroying the moral fiber of what made this country great. It's plagued with self-absortion, consumerism and "it's all about you" - mentality.

Just as an aside, not trying to derail the thread, but depending on your answer it is relevent to the above statement: This may be an obvious question, but would you vote Dem or GoP?

[-Cp]

Some could argue it is selfish to have lots of kids because 1) You can't afford to give them a good life 2) You can't possibly give them the attention they deserve.


And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.



2) What is wrong with wanting to have a fulfilling life yourself? Should life be all about self-sacrifice?

Since when did "self" become so important? Oh, that's right.. it stemmed from that ignorant idea of "You have to take care of #1 first.. and it's all about you!"


Why can't you have both - a loving family and material things?

Dunno.. why did Christ say "It's easier for a Camel to go thru the eye of a needle than it is for a Rich man to enter heaven?

And "do not lay up your treasures here on Earth where rust and moth can destroy"...

Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

[The ClayTaurus]

Wow. So now if you can't afford to raise a family of 12, you should be sterilized. This is top notch material.

[5stringJeff]

And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

Since when did "self" become so important? Oh, that's right.. it stemmed from that ignorant idea of "You have to take care of #1 first.. and it's all about you!"

Dunno.. why did Christ say "It's easier for a Camel to go thru the eye of a needle than it is for a Rich man to enter heaven?

And "do not lay up your treasures here on Earth where rust and moth can destroy"...

Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of contempt shown to parents of small families here...

[-Cp]

Frankly, I'm seeing a lot of contempt shown to parents of small families here...

None at all from me - as I don't think everyone SHOULD have large families, in fact - some should never procreate...

[Gaffer]

It's all about economy. You can't hunt deer year round. You can't grow a garden year round. even buying a cow is not cheap, not to mention its care and feeding. And nothing like raw unpastueized milk to keep you healthy. There's a lot of things that are needed besides food such as soap and toilet paper and other necessities. Not to mention clothes, shoes, coats blankets etc.

Bunk em up. yeah that solves the problem. Five to a room is no big deal. each kid gets a dresser drawer and a foot of closet space for his good clothes.

The kids don't need athletics? or sports to be active? Sure, they can just stay home and stare at each other in their bedroom. Or do chores around the house like chop wood, feed and milk the cow. Its just wonderful living on Waltons mountain.

Night John Boy

[jillian]

Where the fuck are you people getting this from? Seriously.

I was just wondering the same thing myself.

[jillian]

And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

So you're for sterilizing people who don't think utopia is living on a farm and kiling their own food. Personally, I think that's pretty sick. Perhaps we should focus on preventing the ignorant from having children.... how'd ya feel about that one?


Since when did "self" become so important? Oh, that's right.. it stemmed from that ignorant idea of "You have to take care of #1 first.. and it's all about you!"

As opposed to it being all about *you*, of course.


Dunno.. why did Christ say "It's easier for a Camel to go thru the eye of a needle than it is for a Rich man to enter heaven?

And "do not lay up your treasures here on Earth where rust and moth can destroy"...

And those words have meaning to me because???


Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

I'd say you're the one who's self-absorbed...

[darin]

I'm wondering why we see lines like "...can afford to give them a good life.."?

Finances have VERY LITTLE to do with a good life.

[jillian]

so just because I CHOSE to have two kids, and want more, means they don't get all the self-centered attention that you think just one kid deserves?

My boys AND my daycare kids get all the attention they want. I have my 3yo who is speech delayed but in preschool for it, my 8.5mo baby who is a big mamma's boy already, my 2yo daycare boy Paul who makes me laugh with his constant quoting of Thomas the train, and my 4yo daycare girl Grace who is always being too big for her britches, and Hunter, my 3mo daycare baby who has such a cute smile. They all get my attention, most times at the same time. And, they learn how to share my attention with each other.

I totally want another baby. But physically I cannot have them. So, we are looking into adoption and surrogate mothers.

I think if you actually read my post, instead of having a wholly unjustified knee-jerk reaction, you'd see that I was simply saying that it's ok to have a large family if you can afford it and it's what you want and a small family if that's what you choose.

Good luck with the adoption and/or surrogacy. I wish you a happy, healthy third little one.

[jillian]

Clearly, you don't think children are a blessing, you heartless bitch!

Heh! That's it! You found me out!! lol... :D

[-Cp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Cp
Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves.

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

Both of these paragraphs are totally uncalled for. Just because someone only has one kid, does not mean that a) they are selfish, b) their kid is spoiled, or c) that person shouldn't procreate.

Not uncalled for at all..

A) Outside of physical reasons the majority of folks who only have one kid do so cause they're either crappy parents (allow the kid to rule the house) or because they're too worried having more will hurt their "carreer interests".

B) Show me a home w/ only one kid that isn't spoiled rotten and you've shown me an extreme rarity.

C) If they are that self-aborbed with their careers or because they don't want to live a selfless life towards kids, then yes, they should not procreate anymore..

[-Cp]

So you're for sterilizing people who don't think utopia is living on a farm and kiling their own food. Personally, I think that's pretty sick.


Does the world need anymore mouth-breathers? (a.k.a. "enlightened libs)?

Nope...

[jillian]

Does the world need anymore mouth-breathers? (a.k.a. "enlightened libs)?

Nope...

You're a sick little twerp... seriously. And you call yourself Christian? You should be ashamed....

And that's my last word on this subject, I think.

[The ClayTaurus]

Not uncalled for at all..

A) Outside of physical reasons the majority of folks who only have one kid do so cause they're either crappy parents (allow the kid to rule the house) or because they're too worried having more will hurt their "carreer interests".

B) Show me a home w/ only one kid that isn't spoiled rotten and you've shown me an extreme rarity.

C) If they are that self-aborbed with their careers or because they don't want to live a selfless life towards kids, then yes, they should not procreate anymore..The hypocrisy is stellar.

[5stringJeff]

Not uncalled for at all..

A) Outside of physical reasons the majority of folks who only have one kid do so cause they're either crappy parents (allow the kid to rule the house) or because they're too worried having more will hurt their "carreer interests".

B) Show me a home w/ only one kid that isn't spoiled rotten and you've shown me an extreme rarity.

C) If they are that self-aborbed with their careers or because they don't want to live a selfless life towards kids, then yes, they should not procreate anymore..

A) You are judging people'smotives based solely on the number of kids they have, when in reality you have no idea why they only have one child.

B) Fallacy of Anecdotal Evidence (http://www.cuyamaca.edu/bruce.thompson/Fallacies/anecdotal.asp)

C) Judging that someone is selfish based solely on the fact that they only have one child is ridiculous.

[-Cp]

A) You are judging people'smotives based solely on the number of kids they have, when in reality you have no idea why they only have one child.

B) Fallacy of Anecdotal Evidence (http://www.cuyamaca.edu/bruce.thompson/Fallacies/anecdotal.asp)

C) Judging that someone is selfish based solely on the fact that they only have one child is ridiculous.

a) I'm drawing conclusions from years of experience... and that experience has proven the majority of the time to bring the correct conclusion.

b) *yawn*

c) Again - outside of physical reasons or some other abnormalty, why would the choose to ruin their kid and only have one?

[jackass]

I personally think this whole thread is uncalled for. The name bashing and insults thrown here just because some people want a large family and some want a small family. As long as the babies are loved and cared for...what does it matter?

[darin]

I personally think this whole thread is uncalled for. The name bashing and insults thrown here just because some people want a large family and some want a small family. As long as the babies are loved and cared for...what does it matter?

I think it started out as people defending Large families - people on both sides took things personal.

[Gaffer]

a) I'm drawing conclusions from years of experience... and that experience has proven the majority of the time to bring the correct conclusion.

b) *yawn*

c) Again - outside of physical reasons or some other abnormalty, why would the choose to ruin their kid and only have one?

A( years of experience as what? A self righteous bible thumper?

B) Typical

C) Having one kid doesn't ruin anyone. Just because someone wants a better quality of life for themselves and their kid doesn't make them bad people.

If you want to live on a farm with 15 kids and not get involved in social activites I suggest you join the Amish. Get rid of the computer and all modern day conveniences.

If raising a whole bunch of kids and giving to them constantly makes you feel good and enriches your life, that's great. But at the same time your being selfish. Your getting pleasure from raising all those kids. That's self centered.

People have kids because they want a family. How many they chose to have is their business. Not yours. And its certainly not your place to rundown anyone that choses to have one or two kids.

[Grumplestillskin]

Since when did "self" become so important? Oh, that's right.. it stemmed from that ignorant idea of "You have to take care of #1 first.. and it's all about you!"

So you can NEVER think of yourself? You can't think of others and yourself?


Dunno.. why did Christ say "It's easier for a Camel to go thru the eye of a needle than it is for a Rich man to enter heaven?

And "do not lay up your treasures here on Earth where rust and moth can destroy"...

I'm an athiest so it is irrelevent to me what he said. So I take it you live in a rented trailor don't have a car and have lentil soup every day?


Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

You can thank conservatives for that. They are the ones with the "Greed is good", "It's all about profit" mentality...

[darin]

Gaffer - you're seriously taking what he said to extremes...


His points are well-taken, even if you don't like what he said.

I think it's like this:

Generally, people want NO kids, or VERY FEW for SELFISH reasons. Yes...selfishness is probably the #1 fault of ALL of us. We come up with lies about not being able to 'afford' a child. It's BS. Poor people have a LOT of kids - no, I don't think that's cause and affect. :)

My wife and I don't want more kids for a few reason - some are indeed selfish. We don't want to have to buy another car - to fit FIVE of us and our gear. Mostly cuz that means 'MINIVAN!!' ew... Also, my wife happens to like her body (Most people would agree with her).

Our BIG reason is simple. We don't feel 'called'. We're bible-thumpers, remember? :)

[darin]

So you can NEVER think of yourself? You can't think of others and yourself?


You're joking - he NEVER said anything like that...C'mon...at least disagree honestly. geesh.

[Grumplestillskin]

You're joking - he NEVER said anything like that...C'mon...at least disagree honestly. geesh.

Thus my using question marks. I was asking the question to clarify. Outsida that, maybe he shouldn't generalise...BTW, does he still send you a Christmas card? Sounds like anybody who doesn't have at least five kids is selfish and shouldn't bonk. WIth only two kids, leaves you out in the cold don't it :wink2:

[darin]

Thus my using question marks. I was asking the question to clarify. Outsida that, maybe he shouldn't generalise...BTW, does he still send you a Christmas card? Sounds like anybody who doesn't have at least five kids is selfish and shouldn't bonk. WIth only two kids, leaves you out in the cold don't it :wink2:

You're being stupid now :no: :p :p :lmao: ...lol...C'mon - your replies will ONLY cause more shit to be tossed. You KNOW he wasn't saying that...you just want to shift the topic slightly, by presenting what he said in the WORST POSSIBLE conclusion.

[Gaffer]

Gaffer - you're seriously taking what he said to extremes...


His points are well-taken, even if you don't like what he said.

I think it's like this:

Generally, people want NO kids, or VERY FEW for SELFISH reasons. Yes...selfishness is probably the #1 fault of ALL of us. We come up with lies about not being able to 'afford' a child. It's BS. Poor people have a LOT of kids - no, I don't think that's cause and affect. :)

My wife and I don't want more kids for a few reason - some are indeed selfish. We don't want to have to buy another car - to fit FIVE of us and our gear. Mostly cuz that means 'MINIVAN!!' ew... Also, my wife happens to like her body (Most people would agree with her).

Our BIG reason is simple. We don't feel 'called'. We're bible-thumpers, remember? :)


But by his standards you are being selfish and self centered.

You have a family plan. The comfort and concerns of all in your family are your consideration. Not how many kids you can bring into the world at whatever cost to the rest of the family.

It's just common sense that you don't over extend what you can support and still enjoy a quality of life.

And you at least keep your thumping to the proper threads. :D

Being a conservative athiest kinda makes me an anomally around here.

[Grumplestillskin]

You're being stupid now :no: :p :p :lmao: ...lol...C'mon - your replies will ONLY cause more shit to be tossed. You KNOW he wasn't saying that...you just want to shift the topic slightly, by presenting what he said in the WORST POSSIBLE conclusion.

Well, let's have a look what he said. In his own words:

I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.

Hurray - another spoilt-rotten kid - just what society needs...

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

You have a "today's world" view of things that is destroying the moral fiber of what made this country great. It's plagued with self-absorption, consumerism and "it's all about you" - mentality.

And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

Outside of physical reasons the majority of folks who only have one kid do so cause they're either crappy parents

Show me a home w/ only one kid that isn't spoiled rotten and you've shown me an extreme rarity.

If they are that self-aborbed with their careers or because they don't want to live a selfless life towards kids, then yes, they should not procreate anymore..

Again - outside of physical reasons or some other abnormalty, why would the choose to ruin their kid and only have one?

Note the emotive language in bold. Either he means it or he doesn't, and from where I'm looking, what he is saying ARE the worst possible conclusions.

[darin]

Well, let's have a look what he said. In his own words:

I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.

Hurray - another spoilt-rotten kid - just what society needs...

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

You have a "today's world" view of things that is destroying the moral fiber of what made this country great. It's plagued with self-absorption, consumerism and "it's all about you" - mentality.

And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

Materialism - and the consumer mentality that goes along with it is all about self-absortion and that always leads to destruction...

Outside of physical reasons the majority of folks who only have one kid do so cause they're either crappy parents

Show me a home w/ only one kid that isn't spoiled rotten and you've shown me an extreme rarity.

If they are that self-aborbed with their careers or because they don't want to live a selfless life towards kids, then yes, they should not procreate anymore..

Again - outside of physical reasons or some other abnormalty, why would the choose to ruin their kid and only have one?

Note the emotive language in bold. Either he means it or he doesn't, and from where I'm looking, what he is saying ARE the worst possible conclusions.



He seems to in the case of the individual to whom he was speaking...sure. :)

[Grumplestillskin]

He seems to in the case of the individual to whom he was speaking...sure. :)

There were several individuals from whence I pulled the quotes....;)

[Gaffer]

He seems to in the case of the individual to whom he was speaking...sure. :)

I read it the same way grump reads it. Seems pretty negative in all of the statements.

[darin]

There were several individuals from whence I pulled the quotes....;)

NOTHING he wrote comes CLOSE To


So you can NEVER think of yourself? You can't think of others and yourself?

:) You know it. Gaffer knows it. And the American People know it.

[KitchenKitten99]

Does the world need anymore mouth-breathers? (a.k.a. "enlightened libs)?

Nope...

my husband calls them 'window lickers'...

[Nienna]

That's nice, of course, but why wouldn't he be involved with them? They're his kids, too, yes?

I have met an amazing number of men who don't REALLY believe that they should be.

[jillian]

I have met an amazing number of men who don't REALLY believe that they should be.

I don't think I could have married someone who believed that. My husband loves his time with the kiddle. Glad yours is involved with your gang!

[Nienna]

I don't think I could have married someone who believed that. My husband loves his time with the kiddle. Glad yours is involved with your gang!

Thanks, Jill... glad for you & yours, too. I try to keep a grateful attitude for what my husband does, because I know I COULD have it a lot worse! :)

[jackass]

Taking my two fishing as soon as they come home. Wish us luck!!

[Nienna]

Taking my two fishing as soon as they come home. Wish us luck!!

Good luck! :2up:

[Mr. P]

Taking my two fishing as soon as they come home. Wish us luck!!
Salt water?

[jackass]

Yes going to Daniels Island hopefully for some sea trout...yummy!!

[Mr. P]

Yes going to Daniels Island hopefully for some sea trout...yummy!!

Have fun!!

[Mr. P]

Waiting for the bible quotes to show a large family ‘is the way’ and if you don’t have a bunch of kids you’re not in Gods favor. It’s coming. That’s what this thumper thread is all about, ain’t it? :D

[Nienna]

Waiting for the bible quotes to show a large family ‘is the way’ and if you don’t have a bunch of kids you’re not in Gods favor. It’s coming. That’s what this thumper thread is all about, ain’t it? :D

I could be wrong, since it isn't my thread, but I don't think anyone is trying to claim that large families are mandatory. But, if you have a larger than normal family, you ARE often the subject of scorn. I think this thread is about showing support for people who choose to have large families, not asserting that people are evil if they don't.

[jillian]

I could be wrong, since it isn't my thread, but I don't think anyone is trying to claim that large families are mandatory. But, if you have a larger than normal family, you ARE often the subject of scorn. I think this thread is about showing support for people who choose to have large families, not asserting that people are evil if they don't.


You not read -cp's posts about how those of us who chose smaller families should really be sterilized so we can't procreate?

[Nienna]

You not read -cp's posts about how those of us who chose smaller families should really be sterilized so we can't procreate?

lol! no... i missed that! Guess I should read the threads all the way through? :o

[jillian]

lol! no... i missed that! Guess I should read the threads all the way through? :o

S'okay, sweetie. Didn't think you'd agree with him on that subject. ;)

[The ClayTaurus]

Waiting for the bible quotes to show a large family ‘is the way’ and if you don’t have a bunch of kids you’re not in Gods favor. It’s coming. That’s what this thumper thread is all about, ain’t it? :DI thought it was about showing contempt to those that you perceive show contempt to you... a contempt-off!

[-Cp]

You not read -cp's posts about how those of us who chose smaller families should really be sterilized so we can't procreate?

That's NOT what I said you wierdo....

[Mr. P]

Some could argue it is selfish to have lots of kids because 1) You can't afford to give them a good life 2) You can't possibly give them the attention they deserve.



And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

..

Damn sure looks like that's what you said.

[Said1]

Honestly, family size is up to the individual. Period. End of story.

I have one child and will NOT have anymore. I made this choice for several reasons and do not regret it for one minute.

[Mr. P]

Honestly, family size is up to the individual. Period. End of story.

I have one child and will NOT have anymore. I made this choice for several reasons and do not regret it for one minute.

You are to be condemned for that choice, Said1. You selfish human being! :wink2:

[CockySOB]

And your constant derision of anyone who doesn't share your views is always apparent.

But yeah... we should love junk science, right? You should be able to muddy the waters and pretend there's some scientific basis for your beliefs when it is only your "faith" that supports?

Why do you need everyone to believe the same thing as you and give you a pass on scientific method because your reading of the bible tells you to?

:lol: Oh the delicious irony!

[Said1]

You are to be condemned for that choice, Said1. You selfish human being! :wink2:

I was an only child and watched my parents struggle to provide the most basic things. I guess I learned a bit from that considering, I'm not that much better off then they were back then. :2up:

[Mr. P]

I was an only child and watched my parents struggle to provide the most basic things. I guess I learned a bit from that considering, I'm not that much better off then they were back then. :2up:

For the record, I don't have a problem with you choosing to have one or ten children. It's none of my business, unlike some here that think it is. ;)

[Said1]

For the record, I don't have a problem with you choosing to have one or ten children. It's none of my business, unlike some here that think it is. ;)

I know. I really don't care about what people think about the choices I make with my own life.

I took care of other people's children for a long time, cured that biological clock thing as well. :D

[Mr. P]

I thought it was about showing contempt to those that you perceive show contempt to you... a contempt-off!

Just a transparent disguise.

[CockySOB]

A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

I may think not think much of Jillian's politics and even less of her ability to debate, but IMHO that was out of line.

[dan]

Well, I'm technically an only child, in the sense that all my brothers and sister are from the same father, different mother, and by the time I was born, they were all old enough to be supporting themselves, except Jim, who graduated high school when I was, I think, 2? He can probably remember it better than me (or not, if he celebrated his graduation the way I graduated mine).

Anyway, point is, I was, at least as far as socio-economic issues go, an only child. I never felt like an only child, I'm just saying, our household was basically two parents and one child.

ANYWAY...

I take great offense to everything that's been said about parents only having one child. I have no idea why my parents didn't want to have any more kids, and guess what, it's nobody's business but their own. One could easily live on $100 a month? Are you insane? I'm thinking that everyone here secretly knows that's a ridiculous statement whether they're admitting it or not. So, my parents should have moved away from NJ, from their entire family and the place that they had lived their entire lives, so they could live a meager life hunting deer (which they don't know how to do and are not exactly eager to do) and gardening (ditto) for food? That's why my Dad worked his ass off for thirty years at the same job, so he could move to the mountains and live a life that hardly anybody wants to live? All so he could have more kids?

I'm getting away from the point. My dad has five kids, so it's not really about him, I guess. My mom quit her job when I was born so she could raise me full-time. I have no complaints about my childhood or my life, and I'm not spoiled rotten. I think this assumption that people with only one child are selfish says more about the accusor than the accused. Every only child I know is a well-balanced, fully self-sufficient person. Every person from a big family I know has trouble being alone and cannot function without having others around them at all times.

Bottom line, how many kids you have is your business, and you shouldn't have to procreate many times to prove what a wonderful parent you are.

[-Cp]

Damn sure looks like that's what you said.

Don't you start too P. - Nowhere have I sad that "people with smaller families should be steril"...

The ENTIRE point of this thread was to point out how there is Contempt from society towards larger families...

[-Cp]

I may think not think much of Jillian's politics and even less of her ability to debate, but IMHO that was out of line.

Not out of line at all - I hope her and other libs stop having kids - as we have enough mental polution in this country as it is... For the same reasons I'd like terrorists to stop having kids - both are destructive to mankind.. One kills people the other kills people's minds from common sense and morality.

[Grumplestillskin]

as we have enough mental polution in this country as it is...

Yup, I read you posts, and you are on the money...

[Mr. P]

Don't you start too P. - Nowhere have I sad that "people with smaller families should be steril"...

The ENTIRE point of this thread was to point out how there is Contempt from society towards larger families...

I don't think there is, but if you stick out like a sore thumb people will take notice. I guess some folks take that as contempt.


Nowhere have I sad that "people with smaller families should be steril"...
Yeah, you pretty much did say that..If it wasn't your intent, fine, but that's how I and several other folks read it.

[-Cp]

Yeah, you pretty much did say that..If it wasn't your intent, fine, but that's how I and several other folks read it.

I can't help it ya'll don't know how to read....

[jillian]

I can't help it ya'll don't know how to read....

You just repeated the same thing.

You have a split personality problem where one part of you doesn't know what the other part is doing?

And just a hint, but you have no juice, so when you neg me nothing happens other than you look like you're stamping your feet.

[Mr. P]

I can't help it ya'll don't know how to read....

Go read about this, the likely reason you posting this thread in the first place, ain't it? You're Soooo transparant, CP.


The Christian View of Children

God, it seems, has a preference for children; after all, one of His first commands was to "be fruitful and multiply." Throughout the Old Testament, having many children is listed among the signs of prosperity that indicate God's favor. Psalm 127 states "Behold, sons are a gift from the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the sons of one's youth. Happy the man whose quiver is filled with them." Psalm 128 is one of my favorites; it states:
Happy the man who fears the Lord, who walks in his ways!
You shall eat of your hand's labor; blessed are you, and it shall be well with you.
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine in the recesses of your house;
Your sons, like olive shoots around your table.
Behold, in this way shall be blessed the man who fears the Lord.

[5stringJeff]

Don't you start too P. - Nowhere have I sad that "people with smaller families should be steril"...

You, in post #25 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5917&postcount=25):"And those types of people (those who don't want large families) should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases."

You, in post #28 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5927&postcount=28): "I don't think everyone SHOULD have large families, in fact - some should never procreate..."

You, in post #82 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=7327&postcount=82): "I hope her and other libs stop having kids."


The ENTIRE point of this thread was to point out how there is Contempt from society towards larger families...

The only contempt in this thread has been towards those who have disagreed with your original premise.

[The ClayTaurus]

Contempt-off 2007. Winner kicks a swift kick in the teeth!

[The ClayTaurus]

Don't you start too P. - Nowhere have I sad that "people with smaller families should be steril"...

The ENTIRE point of this thread was to point out how there is Contempt from society towards larger families...:lol: What a hack.

[-Cp]

You, in post #25 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5917&postcount=25):"And those types of people (those who don't want large families) should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases."

You, in post #28 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5927&postcount=28): "I don't think everyone SHOULD have large families, in fact - some should never procreate..."

You, in post #82 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=7327&postcount=82): "I hope her and other libs stop having kids."



The only contempt in this thread has been towards those who have disagreed with your original premise.

So now an admin is going to add text to something I posted? What kind of jacked-up message board is this?

I can't believe you'd do that jeff... :(


THIS is the ORIGINAL text:


Some could argue it is selfish to have lots of kids because 1) You can't afford to give them a good life 2) You can't possibly give them the attention they deserve.


And those types of people should never have kids - I'm all for sterilization in those cases.

I don't know how ANYONE with common sense could read anything into my exchange IN CONTEXT and see what I was saying was "I'm all for sterilzation for folks who don't want to be good parents" - in other words, why even bother with kids if they're going to live a self-serving life in the first place?

Do you think this country needs more Dee-dee-dee's raised by parents like that?

[5stringJeff]

So now an admin is going to add text to something I posted? What kind of jacked-up message board is this?

I can't believe you'd do that jeff... :(


THIS is the ORIGINAL text:

A parentheitical in a quote is commonly used to show context. It clarifies what "those type of people" are. And I linked to the post, so people could read the post for themselves.


I don't know how ANYONE with common sense could read anything into my exchange IN CONTEXT and see what I was saying was "I'm all for sterilzation for folks who don't want to be good parents" - in other words, why even bother with kids if they're going to live a self-serving life in the first place?

Do you think this country needs more Dee-dee-dee's raised by parents like that?

So, you're all for sterilization of people who don't meet your definition of "good parent?" I'm in favor of not involuntarily sterilizing ANYONE in this country, because a) we as Americans have the liberty to choose the number of children we'd like to have with our spouses, and b) even children born into hard circumstances (however that may be defined) are precious in God's eyes.

[jackass]

[I'm in favor of not involuntarily sterilizing ANYONE in this country,

I dont know Jeff. I have seen some...Yikes...wanted to do it then and there myself!!

[darin]

Jeff - you aren't taking this personal are you? If you are - fine; but if you're not, then it seems like you're quiet hot under the collar - taking what -Cp wrote in general terms (except when he specificially cited Jillian, etc), and applying it on a personal level.

Truth be told both having kids and not having kids can be done, and is done, for selfish reasons. Self drives MOST of what we do.

[The ClayTaurus]

Jeff - you aren't taking this personal are you? If you are - fine; but if you're not, then it seems like you're quiet hot under the collar - taking what -Cp wrote in general terms (except when he specificially cited Jillian, etc), and applying it on a personal level.

Truth be told both having kids and not having kids can be done, and is done, for selfish reasons. Self drives MOST of what we do.This thread was about some showing to contempt to others based on the size of the family. CP then turned around and did that very thing regarding single-child-families.

[5stringJeff]

Jeff - you aren't taking this personal are you? If you are - fine; but if you're not, then it seems like you're quiet hot under the collar - taking what -Cp wrote in general terms (except when he specificially cited Jillian, etc), and applying it on a personal level.

No, I'm not taking it personal. I only pointed out where Duane stated that he favored sterilization for some. I'm not meaning for my tone to come across as rude or mean or anything.


Truth be told both having kids and not having kids can be done, and is done, for selfish reasons. Self drives MOST of what we do.

I'd agree with that.

[-Cp]

This thread was about some showing to contempt to others based on the size of the family. CP then turned around and did that very thing regarding single-child-families.

Again - that IS NOT WHAT I DID... Jeesh..

I simply pointed out that at the root of many people only having 1 or two kids - or none at all - is done out of selfish ambition.

[jillian]

Again - that IS NOT WHAT I DID... Jeesh..

I simply pointed out that at the root of many people only having 1 or two kids - or none at all - is done out of selfish ambition.

What a disingenuous answer. You absolutely did that, which is why we all KNOW you did that.

[jackass]

Again - that IS NOT WHAT I DID... Jeesh..

I simply pointed out that at the root of many people only having 1 or two kids - or none at all - is done out of selfish ambition.


You may have NOT MEANT to.....but you did....sorry.

[-Cp]

You may have NOT MEANT to.....but you did....sorry.

Mind pointing out where or how I did that?

[darin]

Mind pointing out where or how I did that?

doesn't matter, dude. Perception is reality to people. If they perceived you meaning something, that's their reality. Prolly best to just let it go. I love you. That's all that matters :)

[jackass]

Mind pointing out where or how I did that?

Do you want me to quote all of the posts or just all of them?

[The ClayTaurus]

Again - that IS NOT WHAT I DID... Jeesh..

I simply pointed out that at the root of many people only having 1 or two kids - or none at all - is done out of selfish ambition.You absolutely did. I direct you to posts 15 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5884&postcount=15), 35 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5942&postcount=35), and 40 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5950&postcount=40).

Wait, lemme guess. You aren't showing contempt to single child families, but merely pointing out the high statistical probability of them being spolied assholes. :laugh: :lmao:

[Grumplestillskin]

Go read about this, the likely reason you posting this thread in the first place, ain't it? You're Soooo transparant, CP.

I wasn't gonna go there, but it's so obvious ain't it...

[-Cp]

You absolutely did. I direct you to posts 15 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5884&postcount=15), 35 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5942&postcount=35), and 40 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=5950&postcount=40).

Wait, lemme guess. You aren't showing contempt to single child families, but merely pointing out the high statistical probability of them being spolied assholes. :laugh: :lmao:

Right... go READ what I said dude.. If ya'll want to say I'm showing comtempt to smaller families - I guess that's your misguided right to say that.. but that is - not in context with my message..

[The ClayTaurus]

Right... go READ what I said dude.. If ya'll want to say I'm showing comtempt to smaller families - I guess that's your misguided right to say that.. but that is - not in context with my message..Ah, so, it's not that you have contempt for small families, just that you think most of them are selfish and their children end up spoiled rotten brats that ruin society?

[Said1]

You just repeated the same thing.

You have a split personality problem where one part of you doesn't know what the other part is doing?

And just a hint, but you have no juice, so when you neg me nothing happens other than you look like you're stamping your feet.

Same as when he deletes posts.


Duh. Where. Did. They. Go. :dunno:

[-Cp]

Ah, so, it's not that you have contempt for small families, just that you think most of them are selfish

Correct...


and their children end up spoiled rotten brats that ruin society?

and that (generally speaking) their children are spoild rotten and grow up with an entitlement mentality...

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule like my best friend who lives next door to me..

[Gaffer]

Correct...



and that (generally speaking) their children are spoild rotten and grow up with an entitlement mentality...

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule like my best friend who lives next door to me..

It couldn't posibly be that the spoiled rotten ones are the exception.

[The ClayTaurus]

Correct...



and that (generally speaking) their children are spoild rotten and grow up with an entitlement mentality...

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule like my best friend who lives next door to me..So how is that not contemptuous again?

[Gunny]

Correct...



and that (generally speaking) their children are spoild rotten and grow up with an entitlement mentality...

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule like my best friend who lives next door to me..

I had two kids. One is an E-2 in the Army, the other is a senior in high school. Neither are spoiled by any means. Both are models of self-sufficiency.

My ex-wife and I were both active duty Marines. The decision to cap the family at two kids was not based on selfishness at all. It was based on the what was best for the family overall.

My ex was admin, but I was deployed all the time. MY youngest learned to walk and talk while I was gone.

I didn't consider it fair to my children that we should have so little time to spend with them, and it certainly would have been less fair to have more children to spend even less time with.

When the marriage came to an end and my oldest made the decision to come with me, it got even "better." I spent 4 of my last 5 years in the Corps, to include 2 deployments, as a single parent.

It isn't selfish when considering whether or not to have a child how much time and attention one can give, and how other commitments may conflict no matter how good your intentions.

[Mr. P]

I wasn't gonna go there, but it's so obvious ain't it...

Very much so.