Woman charged $787.33 for two-mile cab ride

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Woman charged $787.33 for two-mile cab ride


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/woman-charged--787-33-for-two-mile-cab-ride-202344033.html


By Charlene Sakoda
16 hours ago


A college student from Winnetka, Illinois jumped into a cab for a short ride to a restaurant in downtown Chicago, but instead of a couple dollars, she was charged almost $800.





In December, 20-year-old Becky Siegel was running late to meet friends at the Sweetwater Tavern and Grille, so she went immediately from the Metra train to a cab at the Ogilvie Transportation Center.

The restaurant was less than two miles from the station and Becky’s mother, Susan Siegel, told WFLD Fox 32 News, "He was apparently very friendly and chatty, and was talking about pedestrians crossing where they shouldn't." Once she arrived at her destination, the student asked the cab driver if she could use her credit card for the fare. “He gave her a price and she thinks it was, you know, under ten dollars,” explained Susan. “And so she said, ‘Can I use a credit card?’ And he said, ‘Oh, my swiper isn't working. Here give it to me and I'll do it on my Square."

The Square device and app allow merchants to charge customers through a mobile device. Becky handed over her credit card, told the driver to add a $2 tip, and signed the app. Becky told the Chicago Tribune, "I guess I didn't pay attention or I didn't look…I just signed my name with my finger and I left."
The problem was, as Susan Siegel found out while reviewing her transactions, instead of a charge under $12, the card was charged a whopping $787.33. Ms. Siegel contacted Visa customer service to dispute the charge, but because Becky had signed off on the transaction, a refund was refused. The Chicago Police department told Siegel that there was nothing they could do about it either. Angry about what transpired, Siegel contacted the driver, Ali Ghazanfari, for a resolution. Instead the cab driver stood behind the nearly $800 charge.


Angry about what transpired, Siegel contacted the driver, Ali Ghazanfari, for a resolution. Instead the cab driver stood behind the nearly $800 charge.


^^^ See that name. Care to guess what religion he is??? If that was one of my family done that way I'd hunt him down and stomp his sorry ass. --Tyr

[jafar00]

Angry about what transpired, Siegel contacted the driver, Ali Ghazanfari, for a resolution. Instead the cab driver stood behind the nearly $800 charge.


^^^ See that name. Care to guess what religion he is??? If that was one of my family done that way I'd hunt him down and stomp his sorry ass. --Tyr

I don't see how his religion has anything to do with this except for the fact that what he did violates Islamic principles of fair dealing.

Woe to the defrauders (83:1)

There are also a whole bunch of Hadiths relating to fair business dealings. Would it make a difference if I posted those as well? :p

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't see how his religion has anything to do with this except for the fact that what he did violates Islamic principles of fair dealing.

Woe to the defrauders (83:1)

There are also a whole bunch of Hadiths relating to fair business dealings. Would it make a difference if I posted those as well? :p


Yes it is true a dishonorable son of a bitch is still a son of a bitch regardless of his religion. However his religion plays a part in this. Islam teaches that an infidel can be used and abused anyway the Muslim cares to do. THAT THE VICTIM WAS AN INFIDEL AND A FEMALE LIKELY GAVE HIM CAUSE TO PUT IT TO HER EVEN MORE! IF SHE WERE A CLOSE RELATIVE OF MINE I'D HUNT HIS SLIMY ASS DOWN AND GIVE HIM AN ASSTOMPING HE'D NEVER FORGET. I've found that when its done right it corrects such behavior. -Tyr

[Perianne]

From another thread:


IF SIMIIAR HAPPENS IN MY HOME ,GIVEN A GOOD OPPORTUNITY, I'LL DO THE SAME THING IF NONE HAVE A GUN. One either has the strength/ability to break an attacker's neck or one doesn't. I do. And lord help them if I get to any of my guns because then they'd all meet their maker right quick. Its best to have this figured out beforehand so as to not waste valuable crucial seconds when opportunity arises in such a critical and deadly altercation. Hesitation often causes failure. -Tyr


I think I will NOT break into your house. lol

From this thread:


If that was one of my family done that way I'd hunt him down and stomp his sorry ass. --Tyr

I believe I am figuring you out, Tyr-Ziu. Don't break into your house and don't cheat you or your family.

Got it. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

From another thread:





From this thread:



I believe I am figuring you out, Tyr-Ziu. Don't break into your house and don't cheat you or your family.

Got it. :)
Tis' how I grew up. This attitude and policy of punishment is quite common in my neck of the woods. Were it not so all hell would be breaking loose all the time like the crap in the inner cities.
Folks around here tiptoe a bit more because of it. Unlike places where the populace has not been taught how to defend , life , hearth and home. Luckily I've never had to kill anybody but I damn sure beat a damn few half to death . I once waited many years to catch the guy that raped my then girlfriend's cousin. Caught him coming out of a club about 45 miles from our home town. I am not sure if he didn't recognize me or else refused to ID ME BECAUSE I WARNED NEXT TIME WILL BE WORSE BUT I LEFT HIS SORRY ASS BUSTED UP AND UNCONSCIOUS IN THAT BACK PARKING LOT NEXT TO HIS TRUCK. Never heard of him ever mistreating any girls after that. Imagine what I'd done if the girl had been one of my sisters. I sure wouldn't even be speaking about it now were that the case. Even this , I give no names , no time and no place. --Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Tyr, not everyone with an Arabic name is a Muslim. You are painting with quite a broad brush here.
And while I totally believe in the Law of the Street, it would have to be a far more grievous offense than a cheating cab driver. Anyone who agrees to pay a fare without looking at how much it is should not argue about being cheated.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, not everyone with an Arabic name is a Muslim. You are painting with quite a broad brush here.
And while I totally believe in the Law of the Street, it would have to be a far more grievous offense than a cheating cab driver. Anyone who agrees to pay a fare without looking at how much it is should not argue about being cheated.
Odds are it was a muslim with that name and Jafar did not dispute it. He just quoted that Islam give verses against doing that. I think he leaves out the part that that verse was intended to council how it should be between two Muslim men , not a Muslim man and an infidel..

Tell me if you got ripped like that you'd stand by your statement. Guy took 400 dollars a mile for that ride. Absolutely needs a damn good ass stomping regardless of his race or his religion IMHO. --Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Here is how I look at it: If I found out that you have cheated me, I would go to the law. In a case like this, though, I might be too embarrassed to do so. Who doesn't ask how much a cab fare is or look at their receipt? Cab companies (legal ones, that is) frown on this sort of activity as it hurts their business.

BUT... if you do harm to my family, you do not get the benefit of legal intervention. I believe in Sharia Law in this instance. If I have proof that you have messed with my family, then someone in my family is going to mess with you. And it is going to be a lot worse than what you inflicted.

My sister and I were discussing the guy in Texas who shot the kid he found in his daughter's bedroom. Doesn't matter if she let the boy in or not. If you are in my home for any reason that I didn't authorize, you are not likely to leave except in a body bag.

[jafar00]

Islam teaches that an infidel can be used and abused anyway the Muslim cares to do.

Go on then. Prove it.

I can prove otherwise

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (5:3)

Allah does not forbid that you be kind and just to those who did not fight against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Surely Allah loves those who are equitable. (60:8)

Stop spreading absolute nonsense Tyr. You are totally wrong!

[NightTrain]

So, anyway... looks like the little chickie is going to get her money back - the cabbie is in Iran, of all places. I'd say it was deliberate, but good to know there is recourse.

My girlfriend uses that Square device on her smart phone to process credit cards at Art shows, and has never had anything like that happen - it was done on purpose for some extra travel money.

I'll wager Becky will look at her charges in the future before signing.


http://www.ibtimes.com/78733-cab-ride-becky-siegel-20-year-old-college-student-charged-nearly-800-2-mile-trip-chicago

Next, the Siegels contacted Chicago police about the $787.33 cab ride, only to receive a similar answer. Finally, the family turned to the Tribune’s “What’s Your Problem?” troubleshooters, who took their case directly to Chicago’s Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection. Armed with the name of Siegel’s taxi driver, Ali Ghazanfari, the newspaper decided to contact him directly.“I remember exactly what happened,” Ghazanfari told the Tribune. “I made a mistake on the fare.”
Ghazanfari claimed that Siegel’s fare should have been about $5, but that a glitch caused his Square device to overcharge her account. “I don’t know what happened,” he said. “Everything happened so fast. Then I went home and checked my transactions; I realized I charged the person $787.33.”
The taxi driver said that he’d attempted to contact Square in order to refund Siegel’s money, but the company told him that it didn’t have enough information to reverse the charge. Ghazanfari is currently living in Iran and will be unable to personally return Siegel’s money until his return in September, the Tribune reports.
In the meantime, Mike Stambaugh, a spokesperson for the Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection, told Fox 32 that the company has suspended Ghazanfari’s license and promised to send Siegel a check for $787.33.
“Our department has suspended his public chauffeur license pending this investigation,” Stambaugh said. “He cooperated with us but he’s not in the country so we still have a few unresolved issues pertaining to the case.”

[jafar00]

Someone jumped the gun in condemning this guy didn't they?

[Jeff]

Here is how I look at it: If I found out that you have cheated me, I would go to the law. In a case like this, though, I might be too embarrassed to do so. Who doesn't ask how much a cab fare is or look at their receipt? Cab companies (legal ones, that is) frown on this sort of activity as it hurts their business.

BUT... if you do harm to my family, you do not get the benefit of legal intervention. I believe in Sharia Law in this instance. If I have proof that you have messed with my family, then someone in my family is going to mess with you. And it is going to be a lot worse than what you inflicted.

My sister and I were discussing the guy in Texas who shot the kid he found in his daughter's bedroom. Doesn't matter if she let the boy in or not. If you are in my home for any reason that I didn't authorize, you are not likely to leave except in a body bag.

Gabby most states have some type of right to retreat law, although I agree with you and your sister the 3 of us would be sitting in jail in most states for shooting a unarmed person in our home ( yes I think it is ridicules but that shows how strong the current laws we have are ) Personally I will shoot and ask questions later if I awake to someone in my home, it is better to be judged by 6 than carried by 6 but with that said we have laws in effect that stops us from becoming the wild wild west, that is exactly why I have a problem with Obama's push to take guns from law abiding citizens, if they actually enforced all the laws on the books they all ready have they may not need any more.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

BUT... if you do harm to my family, you do not get the benefit of legal intervention. I believe in Sharia Law in this instance. If I have proof that you have messed with my family, then someone in my family is going to mess with you. And it is going to be a lot worse than what you inflicted.

My sister and I were discussing the guy in Texas who shot the kid he found in his daughter's bedroom. Doesn't matter if she let the boy in or not. If you are in my home for any reason that I didn't authorize, you are not likely to leave except in a body bag.
^^^^^ Way to go Gabby!! Now you sound like a Southerner. ;)--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Someone jumped the gun in condemning this guy didn't they?



The taxi driver said that he’d attempted to contact Square in order to refund Siegel’s money, but the company told him that it didn’t have enough information to reverse the charge. Ghazanfari is currently living in Iran and will be unable to personally return Siegel’s money until his return in September, the Tribune reports.
In the meantime, Mike Stambaugh, a spokesperson for the Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection, told Fox 32 that the company has suspended Ghazanfari’s license and promised to send Siegel a check for $787.33.
“Our department has suspended his public chauffeur license pending this investigation,” Stambaugh said. “He cooperated with us but he’s not in the country so we still have a few unresolved issues pertaining to the case.”

Really how so?--Tyr

So he said he contacted to give back the money, now he is out of the country and can not be reached,. Damn sure looks like damage control reporting to me.
We have no proof he said a damn thing or even contacted anybody to return money. Just hearsay reporting. In my OP it was not hearsay, he did charge her the outrageous amount. No doubt the massive publicity this generated got some people into action to do damage control. He fled to another country . -Tyr

Apparently in your zeal to defend him you ignored this part. -Tyr

“Our department has suspended his public chauffeur license pending this investigation,” Stambaugh said. “He cooperated with us but he’s not in the country so we still have a few unresolved issues pertaining to the case.”

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Go on then. Prove it.

I can prove otherwise

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (5:3)

Allah does not forbid that you be kind and just to those who did not fight against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Surely Allah loves those who are equitable. (60:8)

Stop spreading absolute nonsense Tyr. You are totally wrong!


Here is my answer to that and its from my primary linked source on Muslims. Pay careful attention to the point being made everybody. It highlights the hypocrisy that comes from Islam and its defenders.-Tyr


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


A TROP Original



Hate Speech?

(Not According to CAIR)







“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”


Hate speech? Incitement to violence? Sounds like it to us, but a knowledgeable Muslim would have to disagree.

Why would Muslims not consider this to be hate speech? How is it that we can post these quotes with full certainty that CAIR won't be contacting the media (or Congress) with wild-eyed accusations of Islamophobia?

Well, for one thing, we don’t actually agree with any of these disgusting statements, of course. No one should be harassed for their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) much less physically assaulted.

But the real reason is that we don't fear CAIR is because Muslims themselves honestly believe these quotes to be the literal, eternal word of Allah. In fact, CAIR is promoting this hate speech on their own website! It is actively propagating the very literature that contains these comments, even while sanctimoniously claiming that it is working against hate and violence.

But… isn't CAIR a Muslim organization? What’s the catch?

Well, if you haven’t guessed it already, these are quotes from the Qur’an in which we've replaced the word ‘Christian’, ‘Jew’ or ‘unbeliever’ with the word ‘Muslim.’

Here is how they actually appear in the literature that groups like CAIR are pushing:



Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Quran (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Quran (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Quran (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Quran (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Quran (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement


These verses come from five different places in the Qur’an. There are dozens of others scattered throughout that advocate violence in open-ended fashion. There are hundreds more that speak of hatred and hell toward Christians, Jews, and other non-believers. (Is it any wonder that the Muslim world is split largely between those who tacitly support Islamic terror and those who do nothing about it?)

Very few of these verses are bound by historical context within the text of the Qur’an, and any appeal to external sources for mitigation would apply also to the tiny handful of verses that are used (disingenuously) to promote Islam as being loving and tolerant. More importantly, there is a far greater number of violent verses than ones of tolerance, and most were “revealed” later, thus abrogating the handful of earlier ones.

And yet, this is the book that CAIR wants people to read! This is what CAIR considers to be holy text, even to the extent that an exact replica of the Qur’an (grammatical errors and all) is said to be on a table in heaven guarded by angels.

So, the next time you hear CAIR smugly accusing its critics of “hate speech,” just remember what the organization's agenda really is:

They don’t mind hate speech directed at non-Muslims. In fact, they promote it.
They don't mind religious minorities being denied rights that Muslims have in Muslims societies. In fact, they plug fatwas and religious literature that encourage discrimination.

They don't even mind the vast amount of terrorism in the name of Islam. In fact, they refuse to specifically acknowledge and denounce more than 99% of it, including the on-going genocide against black Africans by Arabs.


So, don't be fooled by those Muslims using new words they have recently discovered like 'bigotry' and 'hate speech'. These mean nothing in the Islamic world, where the supremacy of Islam and institutionalized discrimination against non-believers are taken for granted.

The language of civil rights and tolerance is merely an ironic tool of convenience for prominent Muslim organizations in the West to advance their cause of Islamic supremacy. True civil rights organizations are concerned about rights for all people, regardless of race or religion, and this is something that Islam has never been able to produce... and probably never will...

At least according to the Qur’an!
^^^ Jafar you will never disprove the TRUTH that I present. You have spent two years trying and haven't even made a solitary dent in it. --Tyr

[Gaffer]

Someone jumped the gun in condemning this guy didn't they?

No. He's iranian, he stole money and ran back to iran. Who knows what else he did while here that hasn't been reported or found out. He's a muslim so he's not condemned for ripping off an infidel. Was he here on a visa? illegal? a US citizen? He fled to his home country so he can't be extradited.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

No. He's iranian, he stole money and ran back to iran. Who knows what else he did while here that hasn't been reported or found out. He's a muslim so he's not condemned for ripping off an infidel. Was he here on a visa? illegal? a US citizen? He fled to his home country so he can't be extradited.

Maybe that 800 bucks was a large part of the amount needed to buy his ticket back to Iran.
Jafar immediately started defending this guy because he knows the man is a Muslim. Then he accused me of jumping the gun. As if this outrageous conduct didn't already speak for itself. Now Jafar seizes upon some damage control information being given out. Look at that info- ----he goes back to Iran(fled) to live until September before supposedly returning. September is 6 months away by that time they know this story will be totally forgotten. Information given out now with him gone is damage control by the usual pro-muslim suspects and their allies CAIR ETC.. -Tyr

[jafar00]

Maybe that 800 bucks was a large part of the amount needed to buy his ticket back to Iran.
Jafar immediately started defending this guy because he knows the man is a Muslim. Then he accused me of jumping the gun. As if this outrageous conduct didn't already speak for itself. Now Jafar seizes upon some damage control information being given out. Look at that info- ----he goes back to Iran(fled) to live until September before supposedly returning. September is 6 months away by that time they know this story will be totally forgotten. Information given out now with him gone is damage control by the usual pro-muslim suspects and their allies CAIR ETC.. -Tyr

Likewise you jumped on this story because his name is Ali and Muslim. Actually he is Shia which makes it even more unlikely I would defend him for the sake of Islam but that's not the point. The facts in the story do not add up to someone purposely committing fraud otherwise there would have been other instances of it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Likewise you jumped on this story because his name is Ali and Muslim. Actually he is Shia which makes it even more unlikely I would defend him for the sake of Islam but that's not the point. The facts in the story do not add up to someone purposely committing fraud otherwise there would have been other instances of it.

I addressed only what he did. I named no other Muslim. I pointed to the abject lack on any kind of integrity or honor and that was my point. That you defend him and with his also being your sworn enemy speaks itself to how Islamists view all infidels as future victims to be dispatched by any means possible.

So fleeing back to Iran doesn't point to anything? And his cabbie rights being revoked does not? And the remarks saying still unresolved issues ?

You glom onto the damage control crap spit out by appeasing fools as if it solves everything.

Ok genius , I'll bookmark this for the supposed September return of this scum to see how it ends. Ill give you ten to one odds THAT the maggot doesn't return in September..-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Suppose he had been Israeli and used the money to go back to Israel. Would you still be condemning him?

[jafar00]

I addressed only what he did. I named no other Muslim. I pointed to the abject lack on any kind of integrity or honor and that was my point. That you defend him and with his also being your sworn enemy speaks itself to how Islamists view all infidels as future victims to be dispatched by any means possible.

So fleeing back to Iran doesn't point to anything? And his cabbie rights being revoked does not? And the remarks saying still unresolved issues ?

You glom onto the damage control crap spit out by appeasing fools as if it solves everything.

Ok genius , I'll bookmark this for the supposed September return of this scum to see how it ends. Ill give you ten to one odds THAT the maggot doesn't return in September..-Tyr

So you're already condemning him despite the second story linked by NightTrain mentioning that he tried to refund the over charge and that he was full cooperating with the company to resolve the situation.

Your blind hatred of someone just because they are Muslim is shameful Tyr.

[Jeff]

So you're already condemning him despite the second story linked by NightTrain mentioning that he tried to refund the over charge and that he was full cooperating with the company to resolve the situation.

Your blind hatred of someone just because they are Muslim is shameful Tyr.


jafar just because someone is caught and then decided to refund the money doesn't make him right. And then ya have the fact why in the hell would anyone of paid the guy this amount? Granted I have only rode in a taxi a few times ( I seriously hate most cities and try to avoid them at all cost ) but if we pulled up after a short ride and someone told me the fee would be so high I would of just laughed at them as I threw a 10 in his lap as I walked away .

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So you're already condemning him despite the second story linked by NightTrain mentioning that he tried to refund the over charge and that he was full cooperating with the company to resolve the situation.

Your blind hatred of someone just because they are Muslim is shameful Tyr.


I did not fall for that obvious damage control story that can not be verified. What is verified is he cheated the young girl and then fled the country. Notice the story stated --he said- that he tried to refund the money. That's like the bank robber saying he later tried to give back the money. Your blind defense of such a lowlife thieving scum speaks for itself and its truly shameful IMHO.. You are wrong I have no hatred for you. I do hate all those that are murdering or cheating innocent people because they view themselves as superior beings!-Tyr

[jafar00]

jafar just because someone is caught and then decided to refund the money doesn't make him right. And then ya have the fact why in the hell would anyone of paid the guy this amount? Granted I have only rode in a taxi a few times ( I seriously hate most cities and try to avoid them at all cost ) but if we pulled up after a short ride and someone told me the fee would be so high I would of just laughed at them as I threw a 10 in his lap as I walked away .

Wait. He noticed the overcharge himself and attempted to fix the problem by himself. He didn't do it when he was "caught". She was also at fault for not looking properly at the charge that was entered in to the machine in error.

The guy made a mistake, and tried to correct it himself. What is the issue? He talks funny and prays differently to you? Is that the real problem?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What is the issue? He talks funny and prays differently to you? Is that the real problem? I have no issue with how people pray!! I have a damn big issue with what they do and what they try to force others to do because of how the pray and who they pray to. You damn right I do. Actions speak louder than words. You constantly try to deal in the realm of interpretations of words while you ignore the reality of the actions taken by so many because of THOSE WORDS!

Get this, hundreds of millions of Muslims do not see things the way you do and they act upon their beliefs. Yet you attempt to dismiss that with a wave of your hand and a solitary condemnation from you. But it doesn't work that way Hoss. Your dismissal means squat to the tens of thousands of victims they murder, torture, injure and/or enslave. Nor does it address the very real and very acted upon Jihad being carried out all over the globe. Your trite dismissal of that all too real savagery and brutality is actually laughable to we not blinded by appeasement, stupidity and propaganda coming from our own highly infiltrated government!

I can not decide if you are truly this gullible or else doing the usual deception so many Muslims are taught to do to we infidels. If sincere then I wish you enlightenment if not I would hope that truth and justice gift you in abundance! I suspect the former is the case and thus give you the respect you deserve. Were I truly just a "Muslim hater" I'd not do that but I do so. All that no me know I play no deception games and I always speak honestly. Causes me very much grief but I've decided to live with that. We all have our cross to bear whether we know it or not.. -Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

Angry about what transpired, Siegel contacted the driver, Ali Ghazanfari, for a resolution. Instead the cab driver stood behind the nearly $800 charge.


^^^ See that name. Care to guess what religion he is??? If that was one of my family done that way I'd hunt him down and stomp his sorry ass. --Tyr

Um, sheister cabbies exist in every place on the planet? Well, except for the places where there are no cabs, then I suppose it's crooked donkey owners, rickshaw drivers, or whatnot. I mean, we've been robbing each other since before there was money, so this doesn't seem to be a matter of religion, nor did he site it as such at any point.

The proof is in the point at which he tapped out: When she was going to the Tribune to get it aired publicly. That's not the move a religious zealot, that's the reaction of a con artist who just got caught.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Um, sheister cabbies exist in every place on the planet? Well, except for the places where there are no cabs, then I suppose it's crooked donkey owners, rickshaw drivers, or whatnot. I mean, we've been robbing each other since before there was money, so this doesn't seem to be a matter of religion, nor did he site it as such at any point.

The proof is in the point at which he tapped out: When she was going to the Tribune to get it aired publicly. That's not the move a religious zealot, that's the reaction of a con artist who just got caught. Guy is likely a muslim, after all he flew home to Iran. My main point was what he did and how later the usual suspects did damage control. That damage control was most likely a CAIR inspired action because the thing had so much publicity nationwide IMHO. I'll stand by my bet that he does not return in September. -Tyr

[jafar00]

Guy is likely a muslim

Why is that even a factor in your outrage?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why is that even a factor in your outrage?

Just pointing out that being Muslim is no indicator of having higher integrity or honor. Guy was not a radical terrorist yet still he behaved like scum.. And perhaps felt vindicated because the Koran teachings that infidels are less than human! --Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

Guy is likely a muslim, after all he flew home to Iran. My main point was what he did and how later the usual suspects did damage control. That damage control was most likely a CAIR inspired action because the thing had so much publicity nationwide IMHO. I'll stand by my bet that he does not return in September. -Tyr

An immaterial point that you brought up to start with. He could've been named named Mickey McMickey (I'm Irish, before we think I'm just being offensive), left the country back to Ireland, and it wouldn't change the story. Jafar is correct, you only brought it up because of the guy's name.

Actually, what stopped it was the fact that she signed the receipt, acknowledging and accepting the charge as he had put it in. Now, I'll freely admit, I'm guilty of blindly trusting people ringing up stuff for me when I swipe my card, but that doesn't make less on me to check and make sure the total is right, and not $770 over.

The guy was a crook, and yeah, he bagged out when he realized he was actually gonna have to pay the piper on this one. Nothing to do with race, religion, or creed, just another shitty human being being shitty to another human.

[Jeff]

An immaterial point that you brought up to start with. He could've been named named Mickey McMickey (I'm Irish, before we think I'm just being offensive), left the country back to Ireland, and it wouldn't change the story. Jafar is correct, you only brought it up because of the guy's name.

Actually, what stopped it was the fact that she signed the receipt, acknowledging and accepting the charge as he had put it in. Now, I'll freely admit, I'm guilty of blindly trusting people ringing up stuff for me when I swipe my card, but that doesn't make less on me to check and make sure the total is right, and not $770 over.

The guy was a crook, and yeah, he bagged out when he realized he was actually gonna have to pay the piper on this one. Nothing to do with race, religion, or creed, just another shitty human being being shitty to another human.


:lol: Racist :laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

An immaterial point that you brought up to start with. He could've been named named Mickey McMickey (I'm Irish, before we think I'm just being offensive), left the country back to Ireland, and it wouldn't change the story. Jafar is correct, you only brought it up because of the guy's name.

Actually, what stopped it was the fact that she signed the receipt, acknowledging and accepting the charge as he had put it in. Now, I'll freely admit, I'm guilty of blindly trusting people ringing up stuff for me when I swipe my card, but that doesn't make less on me to check and make sure the total is right, and not $770 over.

The guy was a crook, and yeah, he bagged out when he realized he was actually gonna have to pay the piper on this one. Nothing to do with race, religion, or creed, just another shitty human being being shitty to another human.
Perhaps its that simple and perhaps its not. However his home country is a muslim nation and that makes it likely he is a muslim. Jafar constantly attempts to sanitize the bad that muslims do. I constantly attempt to point out that they are not superior as their Koran teaches and are just as likely as anybody else to be lowlife bastards. Additionally their Koran teaches they can mistreat we infidels any damn way they want to. Especially so an infidel woman.. I saw the name and made my comment= Jafar saw the same name and immediately started his defense. We all interpret the world thru our own biases and principles. Point may be immaterial to the reader but it was not to me. Which is why I presented it. I am damn tired of all this sanitizing of Islam that's going on when its primary goal is to enslave the entire world(by way of violence and murder) into its rigid total obedience to the principles set forth by a mad raving thief, murderer , rapist and child molester. -Tyr

[jafar00]

Perhaps its that simple and perhaps its not. However his home country is a muslim nation and that makes it likely he is a muslim. Jafar constantly attempts to sanitize the bad that muslims do. I constantly attempt to point out that they are not superior as their Koran teaches and are just as likely as anybody else to be lowlife bastards. Additionally their Koran teaches they can mistreat we infidels any damn way they want to. Especially so an infidel woman.. I saw the name and made my comment= Jafar saw the same name and immediately started his defense. We all interpret the world thru our own biases and principles. Point may be immaterial to the reader but it was not to me. Which is why I presented it. I am damn tired of all this sanitizing of Islam that's going on when its primary goal is to enslave the entire world(by way of violence and murder) into its rigid total obedience to the principles set forth by a mad raving thief, murderer , rapist and child molester. -Tyr

Your crusade is misguided Tyr. Even if he did defraud the woman, it wouldn't have been guided by any religion let alone Islam which would condemn it unequivocally. Why did you choose to ignore the simple verse I posted before regarding those who defraud others? Doesn't fit in with your agenda? None of what you claim about Islam is true. You always produce these far fetched lies, yet provide not scriptural proof to back them up.

You just like to rant at brown people.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Your crusade is misguided Tyr. Even if he did defraud the woman, it wouldn't have been guided by any religion let alone Islam which would condemn it unequivocally. Why did you choose to ignore the simple verse I posted before regarding those who defraud others? Doesn't fit in with your agenda? None of what you claim about Islam is true. You always produce these far fetched lies, yet provide not scriptural proof to back them up.

You just like to rant at brown people.



You just like to rant at brown people


Yes , that must be it . As my wife is one of those "brown people and my son Justin that I love far more than myself is half a "brown people". You couldn't be more wrong if you deliberately tried to be. I know you may truly only see the good and may sincerely wish it were truly so but reality is what the Islamists are doing worldwide. If those truly corrupt your religion and give it a bad name then its up to your religion to stop them rather than just ignore it and lamely proclaim they are not muslim. Because they are as sincere in their version of Islamic faith as YOU ARE... If those denying such people as true muslims make no effort to stop them then we quite rightly see it as a little game played upon us infidels. How can we that have the ability to critically think view it any other way I ask? We that see Islam so quick to murder and punish infidels that disrespect it yet ignore and take no action against these that are supposed to be damaging its image and goals so badly. 2+2 never equals 5 amigo..-Tyr

[jafar00]

Yes , that must be it . As my wife is one of those "brown people and my son Justin that I love far more than myself is half a "brown people". You couldn't be more wrong if you deliberately tried to be. I know you may truly only see the good and may sincerely wish it were truly so but reality is what the Islamists are doing worldwide. If those truly corrupt your religion and give it a bad name then its up to your religion to stop them rather than just ignore it and lamely proclaim they are not muslim. Because they are as sincere in their version of Islamic faith as YOU ARE... If those denying such people as true muslims make no effort to stop them then we quite rightly see it as a little game played upon us infidels. How can we that have the ability to critically think view it any other way I ask? We that see Islam so quick to murder and punish infidels that disrespect it yet ignore and take no action against these that are supposed to be damaging its image and goals so badly. 2+2 never equals 5 amigo..-Tyr

You need to realise that bad people doing stuff does not equal Islam. You also need to realise that we do what we can to warn ourselves about extremists who claim to act in the name of Islam, yet do the opposite of Islam. Unfortunately, the websites you read never speak about the good that Muslims actually do in the world instead focusing on twisting everything to their anti Islamic agenda. You have unfortunately been fooled by their lies.

You should get to know Muslims by getting to know Muslims, not by poisoning your mind and your heart with these filthy websites run by evil people.

[DragonStryk72]

Perhaps its that simple and perhaps its not. However his home country is a muslim nation and that makes it likely he is a muslim.

Which is completely immaterial, as I said before. Him being a shitty human being that is muslim is no different, better or worse than him being a shitty human being that's catholic, buddhist, atheist, or fascist anarchist. It has nothing to do with this case at hand.


Jafar constantly attempts to sanitize the bad that muslims do.

No, he points out that they are extremists, and continues to do so, like in this thread. The Church condemns rape: Catholics have still committed rape. Catholic priests had a number of sex scandals several years ago, and they had vows of celibacy.

Again, human of all stripes have been horrible to each other for quite a long time. No religion is going to get it right.


I constantly attempt to point out that they are not superior as their Koran teaches and are just as likely as anybody else to be lowlife bastards.

Actually, you went out of your way to point out the muslim end, and you bring up no other religion's extremists, so no, that is not the case by any available evidence in your time here. What I have seen you do is repeatedly turn everything that involves a muslim, always in a specifically negative light, into evidence that they are lesser beings than you. Jafar has never stated that Muslims are superior to anyone, he's been on his heels from you in every thread like this that you put up.


Additionally their Koran teaches they can mistreat we infidels any damn way they want to. Especially so an infidel woman.. I saw the name and made my comment= Jafar saw the same name and immediately started his defense.

You mean when you specifically went out of your way to point it out with giant text, and made a big deal out of his name? Yeah, you made him being muslim the central hook of the discussion. Jafar just had the debate you started.

As to the Koran, The Bible has a woman getting turned into a pillar of salt for looking back as her home burned, and has whole sections where the following people should be put to death: People with tattoos, people who eat meat on a Friday, people who disrespect their parents, etc.. Going to the old testament, it espouses polygamy (Noah, Lot, etc.), oh and incest (Lot's daughters). Yeah, we got no room to speak on the things held within our holy book, Tyr.

Holding Muslims to every single word of every single line of their holy book, but not the Bible is hypocritical, which was the greatest condemnation Christ had against the pharisees.


We all interpret the world thru our own biases and principles. Point may be immaterial to the reader but it was not to me. Which is why I presented it. I am damn tired of all this sanitizing of Islam that's going on when its primary goal is to enslave the entire world(by way of violence and murder) into its rigid total obedience to the principles set forth by a mad raving thief, murderer , rapist and child molester. -Tyr[/QUOTE]

Sanitizing? You're on here constantly, doing nothing but bashing it, and trying to treat every Muslim on Earth as though they're personally trying to destroy all of human civilization.

What the hell purpose did you think the Crusades had? Or the witch hunts? Or laws that were on the books over here requiring citizens to attend church at least a certain amount? You wanna play that game, then we've got as much blood in the field as they do. Hell, how The Holy Roman Empire? The Church as a secular power? Hell, just the horrible shit Catholics did to other Christians and the Native Americans. Know the difference? We're not really at war religiously anymore, but Vietnam was essentially the same thing: We're gonna go beat back the "demon" communism, which didn't really work anyway, and failed on it's own. Even China isn't pure communist any longer.

The ones you're talking about are the guys who've been in wars for over 500 years. Now, we were in Vietnam for less than twenty years, and our guys committed some horrible acts over there as the war progressed. 25 times that length of time they've been in a constant state of battle over very finite resources. Add some religious zealots, a lot of loss all around, and it turns into a perfect mixture for the shit we're seeing out of the Middle East. Why do they get pissed at us? We keep breaking up the fight, but we don't really stick it out all the way, and they're a bit dependent on us for the money we spend on oil, so they can keep going.

However, for many, they come here to get away from that shit, so they can start fresh, and not have to worry. They're no worse or better than anyone else. That's not whitewashing or sanitizing, that's simple reality.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Which is completely immaterial, as I said before. Him being a shitty human being that is muslim is no different, better or worse than him being a shitty human being that's catholic, buddhist, atheist, or fascist anarchist. It has nothing to do with this case at hand.



No, he points out that they are extremists, and continues to do so, like in this thread. The Church condemns rape: Catholics have still committed rape. Catholic priests had a number of sex scandals several years ago, and they had vows of celibacy.

Again, human of all stripes have been horrible to each other for quite a long time. No religion is going to get it right.
Actually, you went out of your way to point out the muslim end, and you bring up no other religion's extremists, so no, that is not the case by any available evidence in your time here. What I have seen you do is repeatedly turn everything that involves a muslim, always in a specifically negative light, into evidence that they are lesser beings than you. Jafar has never stated that Muslims are superior to anyone, he's been on his heels from you in every thread like this that you put up.



You mean when you specifically went out of your way to point it out with giant text, and made a big deal out of his name? Yeah, you made him being muslim the central hook of the discussion. Jafar just had the debate you started.

As to the Koran, The Bible has a woman getting turned into a pillar of salt for looking back as her home burned, and has whole sections where the following people should be put to death: People with tattoos, people who eat meat on a Friday, people who disrespect their parents, etc.. Going to the old testament, it espouses polygamy (Noah, Lot, etc.), oh and incest (Lot's daughters). Yeah, we got no room to speak on the things held within our holy book, Tyr.

Holding Muslims to every single word of every single line of their holy book, but not the Bible is hypocritical, which was the greatest condemnation Christ had against the pharisees.


We all interpret the world thru our own biases and principles. Point may be immaterial to the reader but it was not to me. Which is why I presented it. I am damn tired of all this sanitizing of Islam that's going on when its primary goal is to enslave the entire world(by way of violence and murder) into its rigid total obedience to the principles set forth by a mad raving thief, murderer , rapist and child molester. -Tyr

Sanitizing? You're on here constantly, doing nothing but bashing it, and trying to treat every Muslim on Earth as though they're personally trying to destroy all of human civilization.

What the hell purpose did you think the Crusades had? Or the witch hunts? Or laws that were on the books over here requiring citizens to attend church at least a certain amount? You wanna play that game, then we've got as much blood in the field as they do. Hell, how The Holy Roman Empire? The Church as a secular power? Hell, just the horrible shit Catholics did to other Christians and the Native Americans. Know the difference? We're not really at war religiously anymore, but Vietnam was essentially the same thing: We're gonna go beat back the "demon" communism, which didn't really work anyway, and failed on it's own. Even China isn't pure communist any longer.

The ones you're talking about are the guys who've been in wars for over 500 years. Now, we were in Vietnam for less than twenty years, and our guys committed some horrible acts over there as the war progressed. 25 times that length of time they've been in a constant state of battle over very finite resources. Add some religious zealots, a lot of loss all around, and it turns into a perfect mixture for the shit we're seeing out of the Middle East. Why do they get pissed at us? We keep breaking up the fight, but we don't really stick it out all the way, and they're a bit dependent on us for the money we spend on oil, so they can keep going.

However, for many, they come here to get away from that shit, so they can start fresh, and not have to worry. They're no worse or better than anyone else. That's not whitewashing or sanitizing, that's simple reality

I have made no claims of perfection for we infidels . I have presented truths about Islam and Jafar to counter has presented positives. Since I only deal with my posts and bear no responsibility for the posts that others make its a contest of wills and facts between Jafar and I. So if he fails to adequately defend Islam its either his inability or Islam's corruptness to blame. I've repeatedly stated not all Muslims are bad but enough (=appx. 20 %) are radicalized and 20% of over a billion people is not an insignificant number.

You are correct Christians still do bad things but those bad things are not promoted in the Bible and are soundly condemned by it. Yet Islam has had no Reformation to give light to better understanding as has the Bible. Islam has no New Testament and no Savior that taught love not hate, is the path to walk. ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH TOLERANCE RATHER IT TEACHES JUST THE OPPOSITE AND ISLAMIC NATIONS FOLLOW THOSE TEACHINGS--{sharia law proves that accusation's truth)

Additionally I've not made it a battle of Bible versus the Koran , most of my posts never mention Bible or Christianity at all. I REPEATED LIST SOURCED FACTS. Jafar's big problem is he can not refute those truths.
YET HE IS FREE TO START A COUNTER THREAD TO LIST ALL THE BAD ABOUT CHRISTIANITY. NOBODY IS STOPPING HIM.

As to my posts/threads on this subject most are sourced and linked. All are up to being criticized just as you have done. I have no problem with that. I simply disagree.

None of us are perfect humans. I point out that Islam is a worldwide religious/ political/ military movement . I point out the deliberate ghastly murders of many thousands of innocent women and children by Muslims attempting to force Islam on al peoples. If its lies let him prove it, his problem is its not lies.

Your pointing out we infidels are not perfect does nothing to negate the facts that I point out about Islam. Do I dearly wish Islam was the way Jafar presents it??? O' hell yes!! Do I pursue a goal in my posting about Islam? Yes, its called ------------------FACING THE TRUTH AND NOT YIELDING TO PROPAGANDA AND APPEASEMENT IN AN ATTEMPT TO AVOID HAVING TO STAND AGAINST THE EVIL COMING OUR WAY!
Exactly what is wrong with both sides being presented? --Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

I have made no claims of perfection for we infidels . I have presented truths about Islam and Jafar to counter has presented positives. Since I only deal with my posts and bear no responsibility for the posts that others make its a contest of wills and facts between Jafar and I. So if he fails to adequately defend Islam its either his inability or Islam's corruptness to blame. I've repeatedly stated not all Muslims are bad but enough (=appx. 20 %) are radicalized and 20% of over a billion people is not an insignificant number.

What presented positives? He hasn't posted anything, ever, about muslims being good. He's only rebutted accusations, so no, that doesn't line up with statistical fact


You are correct Christians still do bad things but those bad things are not promoted in the Bible and are soundly condemned by it. Yet Islam has had no Reformation to give light to better understanding as has the Bible. Islam has no New Testament and no Savior that taught love not hate, is the path to walk. ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH TOLERANCE RATHER IT TEACHES JUST THE OPPOSITE AND ISLAMIC NATIONS FOLLOW THOSE TEACHINGS--{sharia law proves that accusation's truth)

Leviticus, go read it, come back. That's our Book of Law. You wanna play the Holy Book, then that puts our into play as well. You want to Judge, then we are held by those same judgments.


Additionally I've not made it a battle of Bible versus the Koran , most of my posts never mention Bible or Christianity at all. I REPEATED LIST SOURCED FACTS. Jafar's big problem is he can not refute those truths.
YET HE IS FREE TO START A COUNTER THREAD TO LIST ALL THE BAD ABOUT CHRISTIANITY. NOBODY IS STOPPING HIM.

Yes, you listed sourced facts from biased sources, which nulls them right off the top. Whether you mention the Bible of Christianity, your taking his religion to task puts them in play as well. Judge not, be judged not?

Except he doesn't want to, Tyr. He just doesn't want you constantly shitting on his faith in thread after thread after thread, and saying that he's part of some evil conspiracy for global domination. That's not asking a huge amount.


As to my posts/threads on this subject most are sourced and linked. All are up to being criticized just as you have done. I have no problem with that. I simply disagree.

None of us are perfect humans. I point out that Islam is a worldwide religious/ political/ military movement . I point out the deliberate ghastly murders of many thousands of innocent women and children by Muslims attempting to force Islam on al peoples. If its lies let him prove it, his problem is its not lies.

As is Christianity. And we have similar kill counts on our end, so where are the articles condemning Christianity as wanting to force everyone under its yolk?

But herein lies the rub: A person can say things that are wrong, and still believe them. And there are huge sections of our Bible that can be easily taken out of context to make us look like horrible people. You've already seen that with liberal media slapping down people who believe, or women's groups that go after the Bible without having any of the context of what was going on, or that we've clearly been moving away from that for some time. If you want to hold Muslim to that standard, then as a Christian, we must hold ourselves to that same standard.



Your pointing out we infidels are not perfect does nothing to negate the facts that I point out about Islam. Do I dearly wish Islam was the way Jafar presents it??? O' hell yes!! Do I pursue a goal in my posting about Islam? Yes, its called ------------------FACING THE TRUTH AND NOT YIELDING TO PROPAGANDA AND APPEASEMENT IN AN ATTEMPT TO AVOID HAVING TO STAND AGAINST THE EVIL COMING OUR WAY!
Exactly what is wrong with both sides being presented? --Tyr

Both sides are not being presented. You simply keep beating on Jafar with your point, and then forcing him to keep defending every muslim everywhere, while you never have to defend every member of your own religion for the actions of each individual member of it. Only your side is being presented, which turns this from a debate into bullying.

[darin]

Allah H. Christ people....

The guy is a CROOK. NOT 'A Muslim' or 'Arab' or whatever. He's a crook. His religion is "Crookery".

[jafar00]

I have made no claims of perfection for we infidels . I have presented truths about Islam and Jafar to counter has presented positives. Since I only deal with my posts and bear no responsibility for the posts that others make its a contest of wills and facts between Jafar and I. So if he fails to adequately defend Islam its either his inability or Islam's corruptness to blame. I've repeatedly stated not all Muslims are bad but enough (=appx. 20 %) are radicalized and 20% of over a billion people is not an insignificant number.

You are correct Christians still do bad things but those bad things are not promoted in the Bible and are soundly condemned by it. Yet Islam has had no Reformation to give light to better understanding as has the Bible. Islam has no New Testament and no Savior that taught love not hate, is the path to walk. ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH TOLERANCE RATHER IT TEACHES JUST THE OPPOSITE AND ISLAMIC NATIONS FOLLOW THOSE TEACHINGS--{sharia law proves that accusation's truth)

You need to provide more proof than posting links with examples of the bad things that bad people do. All that proves is that bad people are bad and we already knew that.


Additionally I've not made it a battle of Bible versus the Koran , most of my posts never mention Bible or Christianity at all. I REPEATED LIST SOURCED FACTS. Jafar's big problem is he can not refute those truths.
YET HE IS FREE TO START A COUNTER THREAD TO LIST ALL THE BAD ABOUT CHRISTIANITY. NOBODY IS STOPPING HIM.

That would be

a) A complete waste of time and energy
b) A violation of my faith.

We are taught to respect the Torah (Old Testament) and the Injil (Gospels)

Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.

And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil). (5:44-46)

And...

Argue not with the People of the Book except in the fairest manner, unless it be those of them that are utterly unjust. Say to them: “We believe in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you. One is our God and your God; and we are those who submit ourselves to Him. (29:46)

That is why we do not stoop to that level and organise ourselves to demonise you in kind.


As to my posts/threads on this subject most are sourced and linked. All are up to being criticized just as you have done. I have no problem with that. I simply disagree.

None of us are perfect humans. I point out that Islam is a worldwide religious/ political/ military movement . I point out the deliberate ghastly murders of many thousands of innocent women and children by Muslims attempting to force Islam on al peoples. If its lies let him prove it, his problem is its not lies.

Your pointing out we infidels are not perfect does nothing to negate the facts that I point out about Islam. Do I dearly wish Islam was the way Jafar presents it??? O' hell yes!! Do I pursue a goal in my posting about Islam? Yes, its called ------------------FACING THE TRUTH AND NOT YIELDING TO PROPAGANDA AND APPEASEMENT IN AN ATTEMPT TO AVOID HAVING TO STAND AGAINST THE EVIL COMING OUR WAY!
Exactly what is wrong with both sides being presented? --Tyr

Do you realise that what you are posting here, all the negative posts designed to falsely paint Islam as an evil cult, is exactly what you accuse me of? Propaganda with no relation to reality.

Islam is how I present it with clear scripture and referring to scholars where further interpretation is required, not by jumping on an English interpretation at face value as you have done some verses.

I am a nice person at my core. I would not have become a Muslim if I thought it was an evil, violent cult bent on world domination. I only want to give thanks to God for my existence and sustenance in my short time here on Earth.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What presented positives? He hasn't posted anything, ever, about muslims being good. He's only rebutted accusations, so no, that doesn't line up with statistical fact

Sure he has many times. He has often given out instances of Muslims supposedly being better. I tell you what when he truly refutes what I post I'll reconsider...--Tyr



Except he doesn't want to, Tyr. He just doesn't want you constantly shitting on his faith in thread after thread after thread, and saying that he's part of some evil conspiracy for global domination. That's not asking a huge amount.

This is where you are wrong as I've never accused him of being a terrorist. What he wants is not my concern other than when it attempts to portray my posts as lies. Then I ask him to really prove they are.. He does not because had he done that you'd not be posting this to me. --Tyr




As is Christianity. And we have similar kill counts on our end, so where are the articles condemning Christianity as wanting to force everyone under its yolk?

There is no such use of force in Christianity. Let him post similar accounts to prove his point then amigo. Who is stopping him?

I tell you what since apparently he is so helpless I will start a thread titled -How Christianity Murders Like Islam Does ... There he can post al this stuff you are suggesting. Just don't expect me to do his work for him. ok?--Tyr





Both sides are not being presented. You simply keep beating on Jafar with your point, and then forcing him to keep defending every muslim everywhere, while you never have to defend every member of your own religion for the actions of each individual member of it. Only your side is being presented, which turns this from a debate into bullying.

See previous answer. If its bullying it must mean I am so superior in debating my point. Which is far from truth since I am not a good debater. I am however very good at presenting truth and letting it stand on its own merits and great strength. Truth can never be truly defeated. --Tyr



I appreciate your points made in respect to Jafar being upset but he is a man and as a man he can handle himself. I post my posts almost always without referencing him in anyway. He immediately starts telling me they are lies. I take that from no living man! A man may prove me wrong and I'll admit it if I find myself to truly be in error but I'll not let a man accuse me as he has done. He recently accused me of hating "brown people" when my wife is one and my son is half. I suggest that you think about comments he has hurled back at me. I have never insulted him personally. I have and will continue posting the truth about Islam complete with links to back it all up.

So now I go to start that promised thread in which he can prove Christianity is savage brutal murdering machine. Let him draw his blade and pierce as deeply as he can. This should be interesting. -Tyr

[jafar00]

I appreciate your points made in respect to Jafar being upset but he is a man and as a man he can handle himself. I post my posts almost always without referencing him in anyway. He immediately starts telling me they are lies. I take that from no living man! A man may prove me wrong and I'll admit it if I find myself to truly be in error but I'll not let a man accuse me as he has done. He recently accused me of hating "brown people" when my wife is one and my son is half. I suggest that you think about comments he has hurled back at me. I have never insulted him personally. I have and will continue posting the truth about Islam complete with links to back it all up.

So now I go to start that promised thread in which he can prove Christianity is savage brutal murdering machine. Let him draw his blade and pierce as deeply as he can. This should be interesting. -Tyr

Not taking the bait. Sorry to disappoint you.

I prove you wrong with scripture. You try to support your lies with flimsy premise and outrageous claims. Don't you have better things to do with your life?

[DragonStryk72]

I appreciate your points made in respect to Jafar being upset but he is a man and as a man he can handle himself. I post my posts almost always without referencing him in anyway. He immediately starts telling me they are lies. I take that from no living man! A man may prove me wrong and I'll admit it if I find myself to truly be in error but I'll not let a man accuse me as he has done. He recently accused me of hating "brown people" when my wife is one and my son is half. I suggest that you think about comments he has hurled back at me. I have never insulted him personally. I have and will continue posting the truth about Islam complete with links to back it all up.

So now I go to start that promised thread in which he can prove Christianity is savage brutal murdering machine. Let him draw his blade and pierce as deeply as he can. This should be interesting. -Tyr

Except that you post specifically to provoke him, you just cover your tracks so you won't get nailed for personal attacks. And oh gosh, you mean out of the dozens of inflammatory things you wrote about him, his beliefs, and casting anyone who believes even a little as the next great satan, he took a swipe back? Well man the fuck up, Tyr. You started the fight, you can't continue to whine that he slapped you right back. You earned that, and more. No, you've been very careful to only accuse him of being a part of a world wide conspiracy to destroy all liberty and happiness in the world. You do in almost any thread that could even tangentially have involved a muslim or the middle east somehow.

What part of "he doesn't believe that, never did, and that is entirely your supposition" doesn't catch on, Tyr? The only thing he wants is for you to stop slamming him as a part of the end of all that is good in the world, and to stop seeing every little slight that some muslim person did somewhere as grand proof of this idiotic conspiracy you've got going. Again, it's not a tough thing to give. You keep making these huge, sweeping statements about everyone who shares the same religion as him, and yet refuse to hold your own to the same moral and ethical standard. You insult him every time you post one of these, and you know you're doing it. And if he doesn't step in for the fight, then you and others start poking at him to push the issue, so no, again, you don't get off the hook.

challenging Tyr to a debate he never wanted, to force him into the position you're attempting is flat out cowardice. You'll see that he isn't going for it, and instead of sacking up and admitting it was a bad idea, you'll try and claim "victory", in debate you were the only member of.

In point of fact, you're not having a debate. Really, you pretty much never do, and if you tried, Jafar would whip you dead. Without a horribly biased topic, or the ability to fall back on rhetoric, you've got nothing. In a real debate, you would simply lose again, and again.

[DragonStryk72]

There is no such use of force in Christianity.

Oh please, I beg of you, please go onto a Native American reservation and tell them that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Except that you post specifically to provoke him, you just cover your tracks so you won't get nailed for personal attacks. And oh gosh, you mean out of the dozens of inflammatory things you wrote about him, his beliefs, and casting anyone who believes even a little as the next great satan, he took a swipe back? Well man the fuck up, Tyr. You started the fight, you can't continue to whine that he slapped you right back. You earned that, and more. No, you've been very careful to only accuse him of being a part of a world wide conspiracy to destroy all liberty and happiness in the world. You do in almost any thread that could even tangentially have involved a muslim or the middle east somehow.

What part of "he doesn't believe that, never did, and that is entirely your supposition" doesn't catch on, Tyr? The only thing he wants is for you to stop slamming him as a part of the end of all that is good in the world, and to stop seeing every little slight that some muslim person did somewhere as grand proof of this idiotic conspiracy you've got going. Again, it's not a tough thing to give. You keep making these huge, sweeping statements about everyone who shares the same religion as him, and yet refuse to hold your own to the same moral and ethical standard. You insult him every time you post one of these, and you know you're doing it. And if he doesn't step in for the fight, then you and others start poking at him to push the issue, so no, again, you don't get off the hook.

challenging Tyr to a debate he never wanted, to force him into the position you're attempting is flat out cowardice. You'll see that he isn't going for it, and instead of sacking up and admitting it was a bad idea, you'll try and claim "victory", in debate you were the only member of.

In point of fact, you're not having a debate. Really, you pretty much never do, and if you tried, Jafar would whip you dead. Without a horribly biased topic, or the ability to fall back on rhetoric, you've got nothing. In a real debate, you would simply lose again, and again.

Show me where I ever whined about Jafar's posts first. I reply to them but have never whined . Whining is not in my nature . Whether I am a good debater or not is completely irrelevant . I've admitted as much myself. What destroys him are facts presented and TRUTH that can not be defeated.
Yet you now say it is bullying , so if its bullying then perhaps I am just a damn troll. If so report me and let admin ban me. I have no problem with you agreeing with Jafar and his sanitizing efforts but rather than attack my character how about you just help him refute the facts given from my linked sources ????? And by the way , I started that promised thread , Jafar replied and didn't list a single complaint about Christianity nor any long list of murders they engage in currently. . He did however try to make it out to be a useless endeavor and a joke . So I guess your statements about it being so one sided (my being unfair) were not agreed to by Jafar. He is a man you know....

Start here if you truly want to help him sanitize his religion. Its a rather long thread and has a great deal of comments/proofs offered by others. Feel free to post there as much as you like. And if persuasive enough you may gain converts that start to see Islam as a pure and sweetly peaceful religion. I will not bet a nickel on it but lets see. -- Tyr


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37131-Most-recent-muslim-terrorist-attacks

Here I'll get ya started on these recent posts . Glad to help amigo.-Tyr





#707


Tyr-Ziu Saxnot is online now
I've just begun to fight!
Join Date:May 2012Location:USA, SouthernPosts:10,963Thanks:1,613Thanked 1,348 Times in 810 Posts Rep Power:3402419



Islamic fanatics burned nuns, slit the throats of dozens of students
at a school, murdered members of a polio vaccination team, bombed restaurants and markets, massacred over a hundred villagers and
even waded into a train station (above) to stab over thirty Chinese
commuters to death - all in the past week. People were slaughtered
explicitly in the name of Allah in a dozen other countries as well.

At the same time, Muslims are the only people who attach the
word "phobia" to the end of their religion and pretend that it
is irrational to even think that Islam is different or dangerous.




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace "Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


2014.03.03 (Islamabad, Pakistan) - At least eleven people are pulled into pieces by a suicide bomber inside a court house.
2014.03.02 (Mafa, Nigeria) - Twenty-nine villagers are slaughtered by militants fighting for Sharia.
2014.03.02 (Logar, Afghanistan) - Two children and two women are killed by a Taliban bomb.
2014.03.01 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Children are 'most affected' by a double suicide bombing at a crowded marketplace that leaves over fifty dead.
2014.03.01 (Mainok, Nigeria) - Islamic extremists pour into a village and massacre over forty innocents.
2014.03.01 (Yunnan, China) - A group of Muslim terrorists go on a sudden stabbing spree at a train station that leaves over thirty dead . Sure has been a busy week by the heroes that defend Allah. Allah a God so weak he has to have his followers murder to protect him! the numbers-- 11+3+50+40+30= 133 innocent people murdered to advance the religion of peace or should it be "pieces"(?), wow a record . I guess Obama's words and supplies really do pay off, huh?--Tyr






Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
I've just begun to fight!
Join Date:May 2012


http://www.osundefender.org/?p=153414 Father allegedly kills daughter, attacks pastor, others for converting to Christianity The Oyo State Police command has arrested a suspect in connection with the killing of his daughter, Miss Kausara Isiaka for allegedly converting to Christianity.

The suspect was alleged by Reverend Daniel Oladimeji, one of the four persons he attacked with machete that he suspected him to be the brain behind the attack.

According to the Police Public Relations Officer, DSP Olabisi Ilobanafor, one Mary Oladimeji, of Calvary Church, Ayekale, Ibadan reported the incident at the station at about 02:00 hours of February 26th 2014.

Though, the police are yet to determine his culpability or otherwise, the suspect allegedly sneaked into the church premises and inflicted machete cuts on the four persons.

The victims’ names, according to the police, are Mary, Kausara Isiaka, Aanu and the pastor of the church.
It was further gathered that the father of the deceased who is a Muslim, allegedly pleaded severally with his daughter and threatened her to review her decision.

The police stated that the girl had to take refuge in the church.
But, on that fateful day, a yet-to-be identified attacker broke in and inflicted machete injuries on the victims while they were sleeping.

Out of the four victims, the police confirmed that her injuries were more severe than others.
Mary, the daughter of the suspect and other victims were rushed to Mobolaji Hospital, Oremeji, Ibadan where she later died.

“DSP Ilobanafor said the police visited the scene, took photographs and moved the remains of the deceased to Adeoyo State Hospital mortuary for autopsy. One suspect was arrested and case transferred to the Assistant Commissioner of Police, State Criminal Investigation Department”.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Oh please, I beg of you, please go onto a Native American reservation and tell them that.

So cite your proof that the U.S. MILITARY WAS/IS A CHRISTIAN ARMY ACTING UPON ORDERS GIVEN BY A CHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT.. I CAN WAIT.
Furthermore I have and always will soundly condemn what was done to my ancestors. However not so much what happened in actual battles but what treachery was used against them as well. Perhaps you forget my grandfather was full blood Indian. I know a bit about the subject .. ;)Tyr

[jimnyc]

As to the Koran, The Bible has a woman getting turned into a pillar of salt for looking back as her home burned...

We can all debate the good books from now until the end of time - but outside of the written word, I think the majority of people concentrate on current times and actions. And yes, I'll say it ahead of time that there are plenty of bad Catholics, some even involved in heinous and brutal crimes. But TODAY , in current times, people discuss the results of people following religion. Yes, both books have some disturbing things in them like that, based on the times at hand. But the times at hand now are 2014. The amount of people still involved in the types of things like this, the mistreatment/abuse of women and so many other horrid things - what many of us call the "extremism" - happens within Islam like 100x more than the next closest religion.

Does this make all Muslims bad? Nope
Does this make the majority of Muslims bad? Nope
Does this mean Islam itself is bad? Nope

It's simple facts of the times. And when SO many people are dying or being abused, the world should take notice, and more so the very society around the people who are being killed and/or abused. Hell, I'm not even saying that Islam is the root of the problem, but likely rather the extremists and fools who pervert what they read or what they are told. But at the end of the day, the problem still exists.

Just as when like NYC sees an increase in crime, something should be done to reduce that crime. If pickpocketing is up, they concentrate in those areas to correct it. If gun crimes are up in Brooklyn, make a plan to police those areas and get the guns away from the criminals. It's not so much to me the religion as much as it is the crimes being committed, and of course the lack of corrections being made to reel it in. And quite frankly, I see more excuse making and denials than I do see the authorities wanting to "clean the streets".

[jimnyc]

Not taking the bait. Sorry to disappoint you.

I prove you wrong with scripture. You try to support your lies with flimsy premise and outrageous claims. Don't you have better things to do with your life?

Scripture is scripture... But if a man kills 30 children while screaming "Allahua Akbar", however misguided, it's still a problem. Scripture doesn't fix the problem. Sure, it doesn't support the actions that some of these scum perform, but they still think they are doing right by Islam, and likely what they were taught about the Quran and Islam. It's got to be the duty of Islam, the local society, or the police, to put a stop to the issues and try to reel them in - not simply claim it's not really Islam and wash their hands. I know that's not specifically what you're saying, but that's how much of the world sees it. The majority of extremism and the types of widespread abuse of women I often bring up, is centered in so many Islamic countries, and often there is very little being done. Excuses, lame explanations and such - but year after year the statistics continue.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

DS, I WANTED TO ADRESS THIS POINT SEPARATELY.


And if he doesn't step in for the fight, then you and others start poking at him to push the issue, so no, again, you don't get off the hook.

Hell most my posts never mention him, they do mention Islam and I'll be damned IF I let one member of a religion force me to be silent out of considerations that he may get upset at reading the truth posted!



challenging Tyr to a debate he never wanted, to force him into the position you're attempting is flat out cowardice.

Cowardice you say!!! First off , I am no coward and never have been. I have never backed down from a damn fight in my entire life since I did so once at a young age to keep from having to hurt my best friend Tommy Chambers! I later had to go back and rectify that even. Since then I've never hesitated to defend myself, my family , my friends and yes on over a dozen occasions even strangers.

Now as to how or what other members post to him or about him that's not my responsibility, I suggest you take it up with them and not bore me with it. Of course that's only a suggestion because this is the internet and not face to face . -Tyr

[jafar00]

Scripture is scripture... But if a man kills 30 children while screaming "Allahua Akbar", however misguided, it's still a problem. Scripture doesn't fix the problem. Sure, it doesn't support the actions that some of these scum perform, but they still think they are doing right by Islam, and likely what they were taught about the Quran and Islam. It's got to be the duty of Islam, the local society, or the police, to put a stop to the issues and try to reel them in - not simply claim it's not really Islam and wash their hands. I know that's not specifically what you're saying, but that's how much of the world sees it. The majority of extremism and the types of widespread abuse of women I often bring up, is centered in so many Islamic countries, and often there is very little being done. Excuses, lame explanations and such - but year after year the statistics continue.

I am firm in my belief that it is up to the police to deal with criminals. I don't know how you can say it is the duty of Islam to deal with these people though. We already learn how to be better citizens and better people. To do good in the world and earn a reward in the afterlife. The truth is, the "extremists" and criminals who do these things don't mix with other Muslims who are peaceful, law abiding citizens anyway so how would we even start to hand out our own vigilante justice even if such a thing wasn't against our beliefs?

[jimnyc]

I am firm in my belief that it is up to the police to deal with criminals. I don't know how you can say it is the duty of Islam to deal with these people though. We already learn how to be better citizens and better people. To do good in the world and earn a reward in the afterlife. The truth is, the "extremists" and criminals who do these things don't mix with other Muslims who are peaceful, law abiding citizens anyway so how would we even start to hand out our own vigilante justice even if such a thing wasn't against our beliefs?

I gave a list of those I felt responsible: It's got to be the duty of Islam, the local society, or the police, to put a stop to the issues and try to reel them in

I agree that the police should be on the front line. The governments should be funding the issues and staying on top of it. The duty I think Islam has is to reach out internationally and challenge what is being said and done in their name. Well, maybe not a duty, but if they don't, then other people who aren't in the know, or not wanting to find the truth, will simply believe this is what Islam wants. So what I mean when I said duty was really education. To fix these issues it needs to be a group effort. You know as well as I do, that you, your family and millions of other Muslims are treated and discriminated against - because of what a smaller number do in the name of Islam, or what they claim is Islam.

[jafar00]

The duty I think Islam has is to reach out internationally and challenge what is being said and done in their name.

We have been for many years. The media doesn't see fit to report it though which is why you never hear about it. My local Mosque gathers us together on weekends for 1 or 2 days of lectures and lessons about faith, tolerance, love for others, proper Islamic etiquette and good manners, history lessons etc... We organise groups to go out and do charitable works and other good things like participating in Clean up Australia day and other local activities to be good members of society. Where is the story on the national nightly news about us?

Instead some idiot blows himself up somewhere and it's "Islamic" terrorists did it and you will have days of coverage about it. If we got even 1% of the free publicity these criminals get, you wouldn't even be asking me what "Islam" is doing to combat extremism and crime.

[Drummond]

I have a couple of comments to add here, having read the recent exchanges ... an 'ad hoc' collection, since I have no one debating direction to take.

First off ... anyone remotely suggesting cowardice on Tyr's part, in ANY context WHATEVER, really needs to change their thinking. I've known Tyr for a couple of years, now, on this forum and another beforehand. If Tyr wants to take on a challenge, fight a cause, or corner, it's always been my observation that he'll just wade in and 'give it his all'. I've never seen Tyr run from any sort of altercation, and I could never believe that of him.

Here, we have a man of principle who'll stick to those principles through thick and thin. I challenge anyone to show proof to the contrary .. we all know that NONE EXISTS.

On the matter of Jafar and his own personality, vis a vis his defence of Islam ... well, I have this to say. Regardless of Jafar's attributes as a person in his own right, I've found in his many debates an absolute refusal to accept - regardless of whatever material, actions, reports which reasonably brings it into question, of which there's a TON of, just here on DP !! - that Islam is culpable for any atrocity committed in its name. That's despite the many thousands of terrorists CLEAR ACROSS THE WORLD, FROM MANY SOCIETIES, WHO JUST 'HAPPEN' TO ARRIVE AT THE SAME MINDSET FROM IT, WHOSE ACTIONS TRANSLATE INTO BARBARIC ACTS.

Jafar has never, to any degree I have noted as credible, ever reconciled his stated commitment to peace (and his belief that Islam is peaceful) with his unbending support for Hamas, which, as we all know, is a terrorist organisation that fires missiles at innocent civilians and has even been known to turn children into walking bombs !!!

Jafar, I invite you to do so now -- IF you can. If you can't, I invite you to announce your cessation of support for Hamas, who style THEMSELVES as Jihadist Islamists who consider they're setting a benchmark for Islamic beliefs and conduct from all that they advocate !!

What say you, Jafar ?

[jafar00]

that Islam is culpable for any atrocity committed in its name.

So says you and Tyr, yet neither of you present any evidence to back up the claim.


Jafar, I invite you to do so now -- IF you can. If you can't, I invite you to announce your cessation of support for Hamas, who style THEMSELVES as Jihadist Islamists who consider they're setting a benchmark for Islamic beliefs and conduct from all that they advocate !!

What say you, Jafar ?

You have quite the obsession. I have given my opinion about Hamas a few times. Asking the same thing over and over again in all threads and all subject is a bit boring.

[jimnyc]

Re-reading the original article, it states that the driver originally stood by the charge when contacted by the passenger. Shouldn't he have NOT stood by the charge the exact moment he found out she was overcharged by like $700? It appears that he didn't cooperate until she reached out to the media. Of course then he changed his tune, as he was clearly busted and it was no longer just between him and a girl. Sure, he tried to do the right thing - AFTER - she had to force his hand.

She was dumb for not reading what she was signing. No way I would have believed the swiper in his car was conveniently not working. I would have had him bring me to an ATM machine, or get another properly working cab.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have a couple of comments to add here, having read the recent exchanges ... an 'ad hoc' collection, since I have no one debating direction to take.

First off ... anyone remotely suggesting cowardice on Tyr's part, in ANY context WHATEVER, really needs to change their thinking. I've known Tyr for a couple of years, now, on this forum and another beforehand. If Tyr wants to take on a challenge, fight a cause, or corner, it's always been my observation that he'll just wade in and 'give it his all'. I've never seen Tyr run from any sort of altercation, and I could never believe that of him.

Here, we have a man of principle who'll stick to those principles through thick and thin. I challenge anyone to show proof to the contrary .. we all know that NONE EXISTS.

On the matter of Jafar and his own personality, vis a vis his defence of Islam ... well, I have this to say. Regardless of Jafar's attributes as a person in his own right, I've found in his many debates an absolute refusal to accept - regardless of whatever material, actions, reports which reasonably brings it into question, of which there's a TON of, just here on DP !! - that Islam is culpable for any atrocity committed in its name. That's despite the many thousands of terrorists CLEAR ACROSS THE WORLD, FROM MANY SOCIETIES, WHO JUST 'HAPPEN' TO ARRIVE AT THE SAME MINDSET FROM IT, WHOSE ACTIONS TRANSLATE INTO BARBARIC ACTS.

Thanks for the kind words and fair appraisement. I have now noticed that you first then me shortly later were accused of being cowards! Seems to be a pattern of making false and unproven accusations around here now!

I judge that is because we both are so successful in posting the truth and some people dearly hate that. My request in my case was present the evidence of my cowardice because what was presented so far was that my posting linked, sourced and verifiable facts was cowardice. So I say prove those sources wrong and DONT CRY BECAUSE truth hurts somebody else's feelings. If the hurt member can not do so then do it before you accuse me of cowardice or of bullying. Just that damn simple.

Hell, I even started a thread to help the helpless but seems the so-called injured party can not find enough evidence to list. Whereas my long thread chronicling the atrocities deals with primarily current and/or recent actions.

Looks to be the guilty dogs whine and bark out false bravado that simply can not be backed up by either words or deeds. :laugh:--Tyr

[Drummond]

Thanks for the kind words and fair appraisement. I have now noticed that you first then me shortly later were accused of being cowards! Seems to be a pattern of making false and unproven accusations around here now!

I judge that is because we both are so successful in posting the truth and some people dearly hate that. My request in my case was present the evidence of my cowardice because what was presented so far was that my posting linked, sourced and verifiable facts was cowardice. So I say prove those sources wrong and DONT CRY BECAUSE truth hurts somebody else's feelings. If the hurt member can not do so then do it before you accuse me of cowardice or of bullying. Just that damn simple.

Hell, I even started a thread to help the helpless but seems the so-called injured party can not find enough evidence to list. Whereas my long thread chronicling the atrocities deals with primarily current and/or recent actions.

Looks to be the guilty dogs whine and bark out false bravado that simply can not be backed up by either words or deeds. :laugh:--Tyr:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

You're most welcome, Tyr. And well said throughout.

[Drummond]

So says you and Tyr, yet neither of you present any evidence to back up the claim.

There is an especially long thread on this forum which does EXACTLY that. You rarely visit it, do you ... and yet you did so fairly recently, so I don't see that you can claim ignorance of it. But, if you ARE trying to, I'll happily provide links from it. Will ten do, or would you prefer a larger number .. a hundred say .. ?


You have quite the obsession. I have given my opinion about Hamas a few times. Asking the same thing over and over again in all threads and all subject is a bit boring.

A cop-out answer.

Yes, you've posted about Hamas. BUT .. then, just as now, you've made no attempt to reconcile your stated peaceloving view of Islam with your support of Hamas, who are a TERRORIST group, requiring Jihad from Muslims !!

Why do you keep dodging this ? Why not just tell us that, in keeping with your love of peace, you are finished with that trash ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There is an especially long thread on this forum which does EXACTLY that. You rarely visit it, do you ... and yet you did so fairly recently, so I don't see that you can claim ignorance of it. But, if you ARE trying to, I'll happily provide links from it. Will ten do, or would you prefer a larger number .. a hundred say .. ?



A cop-out answer.

Yes, you've posted about Hamas. BUT .. then, just as now, you've made no attempt to reconcile your stated peaceloving view of Islam with your support of Hamas, who are a TERRORIST group, requiring Jihad from Muslims !!

Why do you keep dodging this ? Why not just tell us that, in keeping with your love of peace, you are finished with that trash ?

He sure dances a mighty fine jig doesn't he? If he truly believed in the peace he claims Islam promotes then he would soundly condemn Hamas for its terrorism and violence but he choose to keep dancing around it. Leaving any sane person to suspect why???

How about it Jafar, do you dare condemn Hamas for it violence and stated goals??? --Tyr

[jafar00]

There is an especially long thread on this forum which does EXACTLY that. You rarely visit it, do you ... and yet you did so fairly recently, so I don't see that you can claim ignorance of it. But, if you ARE trying to, I'll happily provide links from it. Will ten do, or would you prefer a larger number .. a hundred say .. ?

There is no proof there. Just a list of crimes. No connection to Islam is made apart from the apparent religion of the criminal.[/QUOTE]


He sure dances a mighty fine jig doesn't he? If he truly believed in the peace he claims Islam promotes then he would soundly condemn Hamas for its terrorism and violence but he choose to keep dancing around it. Leaving any sane person to suspect why???

How about it Jafar, do you dare condemn Hamas for it violence and stated goals??? --Tyr

I've said it before. I support only their struggle against Israeli oppression. The way they rule though is repulsive.