Russia annexing Crimea a "mistake"? Or just a sign of things to come?

[Little-Acorn]

As we have been hearing for weeks now, Ukraine is a country with many ethnic Russian people. Partly for that reason, many things that go on are more or less Russia-friendly. Gas and oil pipelines cross the country, bringing Russian fossil fuels to large markets in Europe, etc. And now we hear that Crimea (a region of Ukraine that sticks out into the Black Sea as a peninsula) has voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine and become a part of Russia.

Surely Russian leader Vladimir Putin must be happy over that. But might it be a mistake?

From Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG/640px-Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG

Many Ukrainians are of Russian ancestry, speaking Russian, loyal (somewhat) to the Motherland. But they are NOT a majority in any part of Ukraine... except in Crimea.

Now, whenever issues come up that Putin would like to see swinging in Russia's favor, he can usually count on the heavy influence of ethnic Russians to make things go the way he wants.

But if Crimea leaves Ukraine, the most heavily Russian influence will no longer have a voice in the country's affairs. In the rest of the country, ethnic Russians are only a minority. And in much of it, they are a SMALL minority.

Having Crimea leave the country of Ukraine, might be the worst thing that could happen to the country, from Russia's point of view. If vital votes come up about the economic effects of the pipelines, Putin can no longer count on such heavy Russian influence.

But surely Putin knows that, and has been well aware of it for years. Yet here he is pushing for annexing Crimea into Russia, seemingly with little concern for the outcomes of future votes in the Ukrainian government.

Could that mean that Putin has already decided on "other methods" to make sure those future votes come out the way he wants?

News reports this morning show that 60,000 Russian troops are already massing along the border betyween Ukraine and Russia. And they're not there to force Crimea to join Russia - the Crimeans just voted by better than 90%, to join voluntarily (for what that's worth)... it's apparently already a done deal.

So those masses of Russian troops, must have a different desination in mind. And it isn't the Crimean part of Ukraine.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-15/crimea-referendum-looms-as-kerry-fails-to-sway-russia.html

Are we seeing the first steps toward the intended rebuilding of the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)?

[DragonStryk72]

I actually understand why Russia is backing this, and I don't really think it's about a full restoration of the USSR. Russia has to pay to use the ports in Crimea of current, and it's the only real warm-water port that they have access to, which is a huge deal for them. Now, Crimea is poised to basically fall into their lap, so of course russia's on board with it.

Think about it if suddenly, Mexico started overwhelmingly voting to join the States. We'd definitely be on board, but it doesn't really mean that we're trying to establish a north American Union or anything, we're just happy to be picking up territory we can do something with.

[Little-Acorn]

Russia has to pay to use the ports in Crimea of current, and it's the only real warm-water port that they have access to, which is a huge deal for them.
Crimea has the big Russian naval base at Sevastopol, which is more of a military facility than a commercial port. But Russia has Rostov and other ports - they are NOT dependent on the Crimea for warm-water docking.

Sochi, where the Olympics were recently held, is a Russian city on the Black Sea, one of many, and they have port facilities. But they are backed by mountains that make commerce difficult. Still, Russia could build roads and railroads to them, for a lot less than it would cost for a military takeover of an entire country like Ukraine.


Now, Crimea is poised to basically fall into their lap, so of course russia's on board with it.
Certainly. It hands them that naval base, free and clear (except for the costs of shipping stuff to it through Ukraine... unless Ukraine can be "persuaded" to give them good rates).

But as I said, it also takes away the biggest pro-Russian voting bloc in Ukraine, which spells trouble in the long term. I'm guessing Russia has already decided what to to about that "trouble"... hence the troops massing on the border.


Think about it if suddenly, Mexico started overwhelmingly voting to join the States. We'd definitely be on board,
Good God, not hardly. Why annex a pigsty, when you've already got all the bacon and pork you want?

[NightTrain]

Putin has already said that it was a tragedy that the USSR dissolved.

I think he is indeed rebuilding Russia (minus the whole communism thing) into a Super Power once again.

Crimea was needed for it's resources and for the Naval access, and the "vote" was already an arranged thing - Putin is not someone to leave something this important to his goals to chance. What was the vote, again? 97% in favor? That's not ever going to happen in a real election, I think we can all agree, that is a preposterous number for any election like this.

Besides, who would stop him? Certainly not America. Oh, sure, Obama will squeal and Kerry will deliver his sternest horse-faced admonitions about finding a 'diplomatic way forward'.

The EU? I don't see that happening, either. They need those pipelines to continue to feed Europe.

The UN is sidelined, because Russia simply vetoes any resolution put forth to punish Russia.

In my mind, the only question that remains is what territory is next to be annexed after the dust settles over Crimea.

[jafar00]

I for one, support the decision of the Crimeans to join Russia. It's their decision to make and if they voted democratically for it, we should support their decision it whether we like it or not.

[jimnyc]

I for one, support the decision of the Crimeans to join Russia. It's their decision to make and if they voted democratically for it, we should support their decision it whether we like it or not.

What if their vote to do so is against the constitution of Ukraine?

[NightTrain]

I for one, support the decision of the Crimeans to join Russia. It's their decision to make and if they voted democratically for it, we should support their decision it whether we like it or not.


I'm quite sure that your muzzie brethren won't feel the same way when Putin puts the boots to them.

Putin doesn't like muzzies.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

As we have been hearing for weeks now, Ukraine is a country with many ethnic Russian people. Partly for that reason, many things that go on are more or less Russia-friendly. Gas and oil pipelines cross the country, bringing Russian fossil fuels to large markets in Europe, etc. And now we hear that Crimea (a region of Ukraine that sticks out into the Black Sea as a peninsula) has voted overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine and become a part of Russia.

Surely Russian leader Vladimir Putin must be happy over that. But might it be a mistake?

From Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG/640px-Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG

Many Ukrainians are of Russian ancestry, speaking Russian, loyal (somewhat) to the Motherland. But they are NOT a majority in any part of Ukraine... except in Crimea.

Now, whenever issues come up that Putin would like to see swinging in Russia's favor, he can usually count on the heavy influence of ethnic Russians to make things go the way he wants.

But if Crimea leaves Ukraine, the most heavily Russian influence will no longer have a voice in the country's affairs. In the rest of the country, ethnic Russians are only a minority. And in much of it, they are a SMALL minority.

Having Crimea leave the country of Ukraine, might be the worst thing that could happen to the country, from Russia's point of view. If vital votes come up about the economic effects of the pipelines, Putin can no longer count on such heavy Russian influence.

But surely Putin knows that, and has been well aware of it for years. Yet here he is pushing for annexing Crimea into Russia, seemingly with little concern for the outcomes of future votes in the Ukrainian government.

Could that mean that Putin has already decided on "other methods" to make sure those future votes come out the way he wants?

News reports this morning show that 60,000 Russian troops are already massing along the border betyween Ukraine and Russia. And they're not there to force Crimea to join Russia - the Crimeans just voted by better than 90%, to join voluntarily (for what that's worth)... it's apparently already a done deal.

So those masses of Russian troops, must have a different desination in mind. And it isn't the Crimean part of Ukraine.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-15/crimea-referendum-looms-as-kerry-fails-to-sway-russia.html

Are we seeing the first steps toward the intended rebuilding of the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)?

The old USSR was about to go completely under economically. Then they shed all the excess baggage(trimmed down) to survive. Now flexing muscle because they have Europe(EU) dependent upon them for its energy needs. I believe Putin wants to reestablish the old USSR but on a slightly different model== one he creates. Now seeing Obama backed down in Syria and in Crimea he will start running forward instead of merely walking. Hitler started the same way and when he got no true opposition he went full bore and started WW2. Bamscum has one goal and its to weaken us to the point that we can be remade as a nation= ONE without that pesky Constitution. Putin likely knows this all too well and sees his big chance to make hay while the dark sun shines..-Tyr

[jafar00]

What if their vote to do so is against the constitution of Ukraine?

They voted to secede, so the Ukraine constitution no longer applies. They are mostly Russian anyway.


I'm quite sure that your muzzie brethren won't feel the same way when Putin puts the boots to them.

Putin doesn't like muzzies.

I know. The tartars abstained. If they are hurt, you will hear about it.

[Gaffer]

I for one, support the decision of the Crimeans to join Russia. It's their decision to make and if they voted democratically for it, we should support their decision it whether we like it or not.

When I hear of a election that where 98% of the vote was in favor of something, I question it. How long did they have to organize the voting and set up the polls? Who was allowed to vote? This effects the entire country of Ukraine so they should all have a say in it not just one region. This is as Hitleresc as is it gets. It's illegal annexation of a territory, plain and simple, and your all for it.

Your Tartars don't have a history of being nice guys.

[truthmatters]

You people hate the first black president so much you just abandon your freedomy silliness you backed while You had the

presidency?

remember freedom fries?

[jimnyc]

You people hate the first black president so much you just abandon your freedomy silliness you backed while You had the

presidency?

remember freedom fries?

If YOU support freedom - what is your thoughts of this administration, aka Obama, spying so much on us citizens? Is that cool with you?

[Trigg]

You people hate the first black president so much you just abandon your freedomy silliness you backed while You had the

presidency?

remember freedom fries?


Our president isn't even mentioned in this thread. Please pay attention and TRY to reply responsibly.

[namvet]

Our president isn't even mentioned in this thread. Please pay attention and TRY to reply responsibly.

first we need a responsible prez

[jafar00]

When I hear of a election that where 98% of the vote was in favor of something, I question it. How long did they have to organize the voting and set up the polls? Who was allowed to vote? This effects the entire country of Ukraine so they should all have a say in it not just one region. This is as Hitleresc as is it gets. It's illegal annexation of a territory, plain and simple, and your all for it.

Your Tartars don't have a history of being nice guys.

That's was what I thought when I saw 98%. Like Hosni Mubarak, Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Un "elections".

Still, the Crimeans are pretty much all Russians so it is no surprise that they may have all voted the same.

[Gaffer]

That's was what I thought when I saw 98%. Like Hosni Mubarak, Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Un "elections".

Still, the Crimeans are pretty much all Russians so it is no surprise that they may have all voted the same.

The so called russians in Crimea were mostly imported. Next we will get to hear about the tartars making terrorist attacks. Putin's not a muslim lover so expect serious retaliation. He is a muslim user however.

The big question now is when will he move into eastern Ukraine. He needs land routes into Crimea now.

This is a blatant act of war and nothing is being done about it.

[namvet]

http://i57.tinypic.com/mh69tt.jpg

[Gaffer]

Well the news had the latest response from our DiC. He's using his pen and putting more sanctions on some more rich russians. That will show them.