Reason for yelling "Allahu Akbar" prior/during to killing?

[jimnyc]

I was just involved in a discussion about this. According to WikiIslam, a Muslim ran site. They state the following about the words:


Although the phrase "Allahu Akbar" (الله أكبر) is a common phrase used by all Muslims in various situations, including the Salah (obligatory five prayers a day) and has even been used in the past by some non-Muslims as a show of support for the protesting Iranians, it is widely associated with the Muslims who shout it whilst engaged in Jihad. Many people claim it is simply the Arabic translation of a common English phrase meaning "God is great!" This article analyzes this apologetic claim by examining the use of the phrase in scripture, and the use of these words in their original Arabic.

Here's my issues:

Why is this yelled when killing people? Is it "Jihad"? It may translate to "God is great", but I know of no other religion that would use that terminology as they are in the midst of taking another persons life. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but certainly not to the level it happens in Islam. But what does God aka Allah have to do with killing? Some have stated it is similar to saying "Oh my God" when someone sees something, but that's not even remotely similar.

Also curious, I did always think "God" and "Allah" were the same, or so I was told, just Arabic for God. But this speaks differently too:


As you can see, even though many English speaking Muslims claim it states "there is no god but God", this is not the case. Muslims view the name Allah as a proper noun, as opposed to a common noun descriptive applicable to any deity. Allah is not the generic word for 'god' in Arabic, but the name of Islam's deity.

So it's not a translation, but actually a name?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allahu_Akbar

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was just involved in a discussion about this. According to WikiIslam, a Muslim ran site. They state the following about the words:



Here's my issues:

Why is this yelled when killing people? Is it "Jihad"? It may translate to "God is great", but I know of no other religion that would use that terminology as they are in the midst of taking another persons life. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but certainly not to the level it happens in Islam. But what does God aka Allah have to do with killing? Some have stated it is similar to saying "Oh my God" when someone sees something, but that's not even remotely similar.

Also curious, I did always think "God" and "Allah" were the same, or so I was told, just Arabic for God. But this speaks differently too:



So it's not a translation, but actually a name?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allahu_Akbar

Tis the name of a God so weak that it orders men to murder for it. And to do so to innocent and unarmed women and children. Truth is such a God I could slay myself with my own two hands as its merely imagination. No true God-- Tyr, Ziu or Saxnot Viking gods could spank it like a baby IMHO. And they each represented a God with better attributes than the Islamic --"Allah".. The world walks in blindness sent by Satan or else Islam would have been relegated to a few dozen madmen ages ago with no offspring because camels can not bear human offspring. -Tyr

[jafar00]

I was just involved in a discussion about this. According to WikiIslam, a Muslim ran site. They state the following about the words:



Here's my issues:

Why is this yelled when killing people? Is it "Jihad"? It may translate to "God is great", but I know of no other religion that would use that terminology as they are in the midst of taking another persons life. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but certainly not to the level it happens in Islam. But what does God aka Allah have to do with killing? Some have stated it is similar to saying "Oh my God" when someone sees something, but that's not even remotely similar.

Also curious, I did always think "God" and "Allah" were the same, or so I was told, just Arabic for God. But this speaks differently too:



So it's not a translation, but actually a name?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allahu_Akbar

Jim, first that wikiislam site is NOT run by Muslims. It was created by faithfreedom.org, a bigoted, anti Islam blog. The information contained in there is full of lies.

Muslims say Allahu Akbar (God is Greater) in a similar way you might say "Wow!", or "Oh my God", or "Holy Shit!". It's an exclamation that God is Greater than what they have just witnessed. We could say it when witnessing a building burning down. It reduces the enormity of what is happening. I don't know why terrorists yell it in their videos. Perhaps it's for propaganda effect as they commit grossly unIslamic acts?

Lastly, Allah is simply a translation of the English word God much the same as God in Spanish is "Dios" or in French "Dieu". It is not a separate God, just a translation of a word. Allah = Dios = Dieu = God.

Don't get your information about Islam from such websites. Ask Muslims about Islam. You wouldn't ask a witchdoctor about brain surgery would you?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

jafar00;685784]Jim, first that wikiislam site is NOT run by Muslims. It was created by faithfreedom.org, a bigoted, anti Islam blog. The information contained in there is full of lies.

Muslims say Allahu Akbar (God is Greater) in a similar way you might say "Wow!", or "Oh my God", or "Holy Shit!". It's an exclamation that God is Greater than what they have just witnessed. QUOTE]


I have not killed or murdered anybody. Pretty damn sure where I to have to kill somebody I'd not be yelling, "Wow", or "Holy shit" or even , "Oh my God". And dude its not what they have just witnessed!!! Its what they are doing or else have just done! Its murder and they praise ALLAH for granting them the blessing of using their hands to do the foul deeds! What it is , is a thank you to God(Allah) for using them to murder those innocent people! I will not stand by and allow your "sanitized version" to go unchallenged. Truth is stronger than its enemies... -Tyr

[jafar00]

[QUOTE=

I have not killed or murdered anybody. Pretty damn sure where I to have to kill somebody I'd not be yelling, "Wow", or "Holy shit" or even , "Oh my God". And dude its not what they have just witnessed!!! Its what they are doing or else have just done! Its murder and they praise ALLAH for granting them the blessing of using their hands to do the foul deeds! What it is , is a thank you to God(Allah) for using them to murder those innocent people! I will not stand by and allow your "sanitized version" to go unchallenged. Truth is stronger than its enemies... -Tyr

Thank you to God would be Alhumdulillah (All praise is due to God) or Shukrlillah (All thanks is due to God). You could at least get the facts straight before making your prejudices a public spectacle.

You have it all wrong.

[gabosaurus]

I have not killed or murdered anybody. Pretty damn sure where I to have to kill somebody I'd not be yelling, "Wow", or "Holy shit" or even , "Oh my God". And dude its not what they have just witnessed!!! Its what they are doing or else have just done! Its murder and they praise ALLAH for granting them the blessing of using their hands to do the foul deeds! What it is , is a thank you to God(Allah) for using them to murder those innocent people! I will not stand by and allow your "sanitized version" to go unchallenged. Truth is stronger than its enemies... -Tyr

Tyr dear, the vast majority of Muslims have never killed anyone. The percentage of Muslims who are terrorists is about the same as the percentage of Christians who endorse the Westboro Baptist Church. Or the percentage of Catholic priests who molest children.
There are quite a few Christians who hate non-Christians so much that they seek them out and kill them. There are still a lot of Catholics who wage war on non-believers.
It is quite ridiculous that people want to demonize an entire faith because of a group of bad apples. It's not exactly Christian either.

[jimnyc]

Let me ask this Jafar, based on some of the words in there - is "Allah" LITERALLY the same as "God", just a literal translation? Or is Allah a name for the Muslim deity? Is it true that you should also never refer to him as "God"? If I go to google translate and put in اله it does come back as "God". I'm not debating this, honestly trying to learn as now I am confused. I have always believed and argued myself that the name was one and the same.

Claim: 'Allah' is simply the Arab word for 'God.'
Fact: 'God' in Arabic is translated 'ilah,' not 'Allah.'

Allah = الله (alif ا, lam ل, lam ل, ha ه)
ilah = اله (alif ا, lam ل, ha ه)

And I don't know if this is correct or not, but more on the subject:

This study examines the crucial question that needs to be addressed which is whether the God presented in the Quran is indeed the same God revealed in the Holy Bible. The Quran alleges that the God of Islam, Allah, is indeed the God of Abraham and hence the God of Scripture, Yahweh Elohim. But is this the case?

Are we to assume that just because the Quran states that Allah is Yahweh of the Bible that both Jews and Christians are obligated to believe this to be true? Or do we examine the nature and attributes of Allah in order to compare them with the biblical portrait of Yahweh to find if this is the case?

This process of examination is essential since our objective is to discover the true nature of God, a process whose outcome entails eternal consequences in regard to man's future destiny in the afterlife. After all, if Allah is the God of Abraham then Jews and Christians are wrong for not embracing Islam. But if Allah is not Yahweh, then Muslims are not worshiping the same God only with a different name.

We will examine certain qualities of Allah as stated in the Quran and briefly compare them to Yahweh and see where the evidence leads us. The reason why we are comparing Allah to Yahweh as opposed to contrasting Yahweh to the quranic portrait of Allah, using the Quran as the standard, is due to the fact that it is Islam that claims to worship the same God of the Holy Bible. Thus, the burden of proof rests upon the Muslims to defend this contention since they believe Allah is the same as Yahweh.

The Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13)

Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan

And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54

Are they then secure from Allah's scheme (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99 Pickthall

Remember how the unbelievers schemed against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or to slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They scheme and plot, but the best of schemers is Allah. S. 8:30

And when We make people taste of mercy after an affliction touches them, lo! they devise schemes (makrun) against Our communication. Say: Allah is quicker to scheme (makran); surely Our apostles write down what you plan. S. 10:21

And those before them did indeed scheme (makara), but all scheming (al-makru) is Allah's; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode. S. 13:42

So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme, while they perceived not. S. 27:50

The term for scheme in Arabic is makara which denotes one who is a deceiver, one who is conniving, a schemer. It is always used in a negative sense. Allah is thus seen as the best of deceivers, the premiere schemer and conniving one.

This is not simply a Christian perspective but one thoroughly endorsed by Muslim theologians as well.

For example Dr. Mahmoud M. Ayoub in his book, The Quran and Its Interpreters, Vol. II The House of Imran, brings up the question of "how the word makr (scheming or plotting), which implies deceitfulness or dishonesty, could be attributed to God." (Ibid. [1992 State University of New York Press, Albany], p. 165)

After listing several Muslim sources he quotes ar-Razi as arguing that "scheming (makr) is actually an act of deception aiming at causing evil. It is not possible to attribute deception to God. Thus the word is one of the muttashabihat [multivalent words of the Quran]." (Ibid., p. 166)

Moreover, here is how one of the earliest sources on the life of Muhammad interpreted Q. 8:30:

Then he reminds the apostle of His favour towards him when the people plotted against him 'to kill him, or to wound him, or to drive him out; and they plotted and God plotted, and is the best of plotters.' i.e. I DECEIVED them with My firm GUILE so that I delivered you from them. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], p. 323; capital emphasis ours)

In fact the Quran furnishes plenty of examples on some of the methods Allah adopts in devising evil:

Remember in thy dream Allah showed them as a few: if he had showed them to thee as many, ye would surely have been discouraged, and ye would surely have disputed in your decision: but Allah saved you: for He knoweth well the (secrets) of (all) hearts. S. 8:43

Allah is said to have shown the opposing fighting forces as few to Muhammad since if he had shown them as they actually were, the Muslims would have been afraid to fight. Hence, Allah had to use deception in order to encourage the Muslims to fight in his cause.

And when We desire to destroy a city, We command its men who live at ease, and they commit ungodliness therein, then the Word is realized against it, and We destroy it utterly. S. 17:16

Allah commands men to sin in order to destroy them completely.

They (Jinns- demon spirits) worked for him (Solomon) as he desired ... then when We decreed death upon him, nothing showed them his death except a little creeping creature of the earth, which gnawed away at his staff. And when he fell the Jinns saw clearly how, if they had known the unseen, they would not have continued in the humiliating penalty (of work). S. 34:13-14

Allah deceived the Jinns into working for Solomon by preventing the latter's death from being disclosed to them, otherwise they would have stopped their work.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr dear, the vast majority of Muslims have never killed anyone. The percentage of Muslims who are terrorists is about the same as the percentage of Christians who endorse the Westboro Baptist Church. Or the percentage of Catholic priests who molest children.
There are quite a few Christians who hate non-Christians so much that they seek them out and kill them. There are still a lot of Catholics who wage war on non-believers.
It is quite ridiculous that people want to demonize an entire faith because of a group of bad apples. It's not exactly Christian either. I have repeatedly admitted the majority have not done the evil deeds but also noted they do nothing--nothing-- to stop it. Yet when it is a perceived insult against Islam by any unbeliever they march in the street and murder those thought responsible. Does not take a genius to see that double standard. That they can take action to defend Islam but never to wage a campaign to destroy those they say "pervert their religion". This infidel asks why not? And when researching the answer finds massive culpability on their part!

Also I've noted here before when I say murderer /scum /bastards etc I am speaking of the murdering jihadists not those sitting on the sideline. When speaking of those on the sideline I reference the majority supporting the murdering Jihadists and why they do so. They do so because the Koran commands them too and yes out of fear as well. I say if they know their religion is being hijacked(as many claim) then why aren't they out there eliminating those doing the hijacking? Questions they do not answer or else give very weak unacceptable excuses for IMHO. Even they can not have their cake and eat it too!! --Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Jim, why are you citing an anti-Islamic site to question Islam? Isn't that like using MSNBC to question the ethics of Republicans?

[jimnyc]

Jim, why are you citing an anti-Islamic site to question Islam? Isn't that like using MSNBC to question the ethics of Republicans?

Your trolling ways have reached their limit with me. Don't expect any serious answers from me, only shit tossed your way. I have zero desire to discuss/debate anything at all with you.

[aboutime]

​Correction for Jim....If you don't mind. The proper MARINE expression is: "ALLAHU SNACKBAR".:dance:

[gabosaurus]

Your trolling ways have reached their limit with me. Don't expect any serious answers from me, only shit tossed your way. I have zero desire to discuss/debate anything at all with you.

I would expect certain members of this board to behave as obnoxious idiots. I would not expect the owner and administrator of this board to act as an obnoxious idiot. I would expect a person of responsibility to grow up, put on his big boy panties and behave as an adult. But if you want to descend to the level of aboutime and do nothing but deliver childish retorts, than that is your privilege. I work with silly, overly hormonal middle school boys every day, so I am quite used to it.
But, as usual, you are dead wrong about this entire matter. Your outright hate over this and other matters is going to catch up with you eventually. If it hasn't already.

[jimnyc]

I would expect certain members of this board to behave as obnoxious idiots. I would not expect the owner and administrator of this board to act as an obnoxious idiot. I would expect a person of responsibility to grow up, put on his big boy panties and behave as an adult. But if you want to descend to the level of aboutime and do nothing but deliver childish retorts, than that is your privilege. I work with silly, overly hormonal middle school boys every day, so I am quite used to it.
But, as usual, you are dead wrong about this entire matter. Your outright hate over this and other matters is going to catch up with you eventually. If it hasn't already.

If you have expectations as to how someone might respond and/or interact with you, then you might want to take into consideration how YOU reply and interact with those very same people. I'll be fucking damned if I'm going to let you get personal with me, then expect me to take it somehow because I own/run the place. And I honestly don't see it as obnoxious in refusing to entertain your questions and take a chance with the same bullshit once again. I see that as common sense. You treat everyone like shit at one time or another, but then you're the first to claim these people are childish or obnoxious if they say something you don't like. But it matters not, as this is likely my last reply explaining this. You can think I'm dead wrong on this subject, or on deciding to ignore you, that is your right, and I frankly don't care.

[jafar00]

Let me ask this Jafar, based on some of the words in there - is "Allah" LITERALLY the same as "God", just a literal translation? Or is Allah a name for the Muslim deity? Is it true that you should also never refer to him as "God"? If I go to google translate and put in اله it does come back as "God". I'm not debating this, honestly trying to learn as now I am confused. I have always believed and argued myself that the name was one and the same.

Claim: 'Allah' is simply the Arab word for 'God.'
Fact: 'God' in Arabic is translated 'ilah,' not 'Allah.'

Allah = الله (alif ا, lam ل, lam ل, ha ه)
ilah = اله (alif ا, lam ل, ha ه)


To cut a necessarily long story short, Allah is the name of THE God, the one and only and cannot be pluralised. Ilaaha is just a noun for A god. It can be plural آلهة "Aliha" meaning "gods" which is the way the false gods of olden times like hubal, allat, zeus, aphrodite etc... were referred. So, I am correct in saying that Allah just means God. Ilaaha is just a god and could be used for anything else the ignorant want to call a god.

As for the concept that Allah is a different god to the one referred to in Christian and Jewish scripture, why not have a look at Genesis 1:1 in Arabic.

فِي البَدءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّماواتِ وَالأرْضَ.

Fil badi khalaqa Allahu assamawaati wal ard.

If Allah is somehow a different God, why are the Christians using His name in their Bible?


Your trolling ways have reached their limit with me. Don't expect any serious answers from me, only shit tossed your way. I have zero desire to discuss/debate anything at all with you.

He has a point. You are indeed using anti Islamic sites to try and learn something about Islam which is not the right way to go about it.

[jimnyc]

To cut a necessarily long story short, Allah is the name of THE God, the one and only and cannot be pluralised. Ilaaha is just a noun for A god. It can be plural آلهة "Aliha" meaning "gods" which is the way the false gods of olden times like hubal, allat, zeus, aphrodite etc... were referred. So, I am correct in saying that Allah just means God. Ilaaha is just a god and could be used for anything else the ignorant want to call a god.

As for the concept that Allah is a different god to the one referred to in Christian and Jewish scripture, why not have a look at Genesis 1:1 in Arabic.

فِي البَدءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّماواتِ وَالأرْضَ.

Fil badi khalaqa Allahu assamawaati wal ard.

If Allah is somehow a different God, why are the Christians using His name in their Bible?



He has a point. You are indeed using anti Islamic sites to try and learn something about Islam which is not the right way to go about it.

My main reason for that specific question was because of the entry:


As you can see, even though many English speaking Muslims claim it states "there is no god but God", this is not the case. Muslims view the name Allah as a proper noun, as opposed to a common noun descriptive applicable to any deity. Allah is not the generic word for 'god' in Arabic, but the name of Islam's deity.

But if you say that's incorrect, I believe you. I was legitimately asking to learn.

[aboutime]

If you have expectations as to how someone might respond and/or interact with you, then you might want to take into consideration how YOU reply and interact with those very same people. I'll be fucking damned if I'm going to let you get personal with me, then expect me to take it somehow because I own/run the place. And I honestly don't see it as obnoxious in refusing to entertain your questions and take a chance with the same bullshit once again. I see that as common sense. You treat everyone like shit at one time or another, but then you're the first to claim these people are childish or obnoxious if they say something you don't like. But it matters not, as this is likely my last reply explaining this. You can think I'm dead wrong on this subject, or on deciding to ignore you, that is your right, and I frankly don't care.


Thank you Jim. Thankfully, gabby really isn't intelligent enough to recognize how her words to you, and me...prove, almost positively, how everything I spoke about...referencing her snobbishness, and holier-than-thou attitude here, were true.

Frankly. We should be thanking gabby for exposing her deep seated, personal obnoxiousness for everyone else to see.

[jafar00]

My main reason for that specific question was because of the entry:

Allah is God. There is only One God unless you believe in multiple gods as this article alludes to. The example of the Arabic bible is one you can use to discredit that entire article. Why would the Arabic bible use the word Allah for God if they thought Allah was a different god?