Public School Crams Christianity

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/public-school-crams-christianity-114500832--politics.html
Public School Crams Christianity
By Andrew Cohen
14 hours ago

Congratulations, you are the parent of a public school student! And welcome to Sabine Parish, Louisiana. We are so happy to have your child learning with us and we are so grateful that your tax dollars have permitted us to establish the educational programs and academic atmosphere we’ve developed over the years here. Let us provide you with a brief guide about what your child’s life will be like while he or she is at school with us each day.*

Let’s start with what your child will see when she enters or departs our school. “Paintings of Jesus Christ, Bible verses, and Christian devotional phrases adorn the walls of many classrooms and hallways, including the main hallway leading out to the bus pick-up area. A lighted, electronic marquee placed just outside the building scrolls Bible verses every day
“In the main foyer of the school, one display informs students that “ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.” It includes several posters urging students to “Pray,” “Worship,” and “Believe,” while a poster displayed near the waiting area of the main office announces that “[i]t’s okay to pray.”

Those sparkling electronic bible verses help students follow along as “staff members routinely lead students in Christian prayer” and “also distribute religious literature to students. Recently, for example, “one teacher” gave students “copies of a book from the “Truth for Youth program… “Truth for Youth” Bibles consist of the entire New Testament and with cartoon tracts that denounce evolution, spread scientifically inaccurate information about birth control and sex, and warn students about the evils of rock music, drunkenness, pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, sorcery, witchcraft and other subjects.” These kids these days—with their evolution and sorcery!
Does your student like math? Last year, he might have been lucky enough to get teacher Stacy Bray, who asked “her students to bow their heads and pray aloud before lunch every day. Bray selected a different student each time to lead the class in prayer and participated in the prayers herself. Another teacher, Angela Knight, leads her class in daily prayers before lunch.” Nothing like a good prayer in public school to whet your public school student’s appetite! So what? So let one kid stop the wants of the majority. That path has got us to the point we at today. This is how ridiculous the libs are. 1000 kids are ok with it but if one--just one is not we must stop it. This author proudly roots for the ffing tyranny of the minority. Notice how none of this is ever complained about in the muslim schools. How tolerance is called for when they make religious demands!?? How infidels move heaven and earth to yield to their damn demands. Even forcing Christians to go on field trips visiting mosques etc. -Tyr

[logroller]

So what? So let one kid stop the wants of the majority. That path has got us to the point we at today. This is how ridiculous the libs are. 1000 kids are ok with it but if one--just one is not we must stop it. This author proudly roots for the ffing tyranny of the minority. Notice how none of this is ever complained about in the muslim schools. How tolerance is called for when they make religious demands!?? How infidels move heaven and earth to yield to their damn demands. Even forcing Christians to go on field trips visiting mosques etc. -Tyr
Its not as though there's anything in the US constitution about the government not establishing religion...:rolleyes:

[revelarts]

So what? So let one kid stop the wants of the majority. That path has got us to the point we at today. This is how ridiculous the libs are. 1000 kids are ok with it but if one--just one is not we must stop it. This author proudly roots for the ffing tyranny of the minority. Notice how none of this is ever complained about in the muslim schools. How tolerance is called for when they make religious demands!?? How infidels move heaven and earth to yield to their damn demands. Even forcing Christians to go on field trips visiting mosques etc. -Tyr

sounds like the public school i went to as a kid. not quite as extreme but. at lunch the teachers would pray before meals and at school recitals we sang christian songs.
it was just the way it was, no fuss no muss, most of the parents, even the rowdier loud cussing parents of some of my friends had ZERO problem with it.
Now if i were a Muslum or an atheist parent i'd probably take some exception. but i knew of NONE in the community.

so is it wrong for the school to reinforce Christians teachings that the children are getting at home -more or less- anyway?

But people can't just be practical here. In these cases the Constitution must be obeyed, other places not so much

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

sounds like the public school i went to as a kid. not quite as extreme but. at lunch the teachers would pray before meals and at school recitals we sang christian songs.
it was just the way it was, no fuss no muss, most of the parents, even the rowdier loud cussing parents of some of my friends had ZERO problem with it.
Now if i were a Muslum or an atheist parent i'd probably take some exception. but i knew of NONE in the community.

so is it wrong for the school to reinforce Christians teachings that the children are getting at home -more or less- anyway?

But people can't just be practical here. In these cases the Constitution must be obeyed, other places not so much The same hypocrites that demand zero tolerance for Christians bend over backwards to appease the Muslims that will someday destroy all non-Muslims should they not be stopped. These people wallow in their hypocrisy and abject ignorance! They appease those that seek to destroy them and constantly seek to destroy those which would save them! For that to be the population has to have been dumbed down tremendously and it has been but it was by design not happenstance. Kids graduate high school now on about a sixth grade level from back in my days of education. Liberal colleges are even worse not just ignorance(which abounds and flourish there) but programmed learning of that which is patently false ! Decay of the modern Rome (USA) in full force but by design not by happenstance. --Tyr

[revelarts]

A falling away from God,

A little history,


Debating Church-State Relations and Related Free-Speech Issues
Established Churches in Colonial Times
As an American student, you don’t need to go very far to find examples of established churches. They exist in the colonial history of your own nation, the United States.
Some colonies supported one church, called an established church, which received tax support from the colonial legislature. The Congregational Church was established by the Puritans in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire, for instance. Colonial church officials performed many of the roles that government agencies do today. For example, churches operated many schools, and a minister often held classes in his home. Most students had to pay fees, so most poor parents could not send their children to school at all. Instead, they taught their children at home. Besides learning skills that would help support the household, these young colonists had lessons in obedience and the family’s religious beliefs. Generally, all colonists were deeply religious, and by far most belonged to the Protestant faiths—Anglican, Puritan, Lutheran, for example.
In New England, students who were able to attend school often used hornbooks to memorize their lessons. Hornbooks were boards with a piece of paper glued on and a thin layer of horn on top. On the paper, and visible through the layer of horn, were the alphabet, numerals, and the Lord’s Prayer. The custom of starting the school day with the Lord’s Prayer and the recitation of psalms persisted in the nation’s public schools until recent times.
Besides supervising education in the colonies, churches cared for the poor and kept public records such as those for marriage and death. Meetings were held in churches, which were used as community centers for courtship, socializing, and sharing news.
Church laws governed colonial activity, and the courts enforced those laws. For example, one law sought to ensure that the Sabbath was observed by prohibiting any cooking, shaving, hair cutting, or bed making from Saturday afternoon to sundown on Sunday. Blue laws kept stores and businesses from opening on Sunday. Church officials assigned seating in churches according to sex, race, and wealth. Even slaves were allowed free time on the Sabbath.
Governments didn’t accommodate the Jewish Sabbath, and other protections were routinely denied those who practiced nondominant faiths. In fact, colonial communities were often intolerant of religious minorities and would not allow them the freedom to follow their own beliefs or conduct their own worship services. In most colonies, even voting and other political rights were restricted to members of a certain church group. Roman Catholics and Jews were not allowed to vote in most colonies. Puritans in New England denied citizenship to Quakers and others. In royal colonies such as Georgia, citizens were expected to belong to the Anglican Church.
The Maryland colony was granted to Cecilius Calvert, a Roman Catholic, who had to support the Church of England. Because Calvert believed that religious restrictions would interfere with Maryland’s growth and development, he drafted a religious toleration law that the colonial assembly approved in 1649. Called the Maryland Toleration Act of 1649 (http://odur.let.rug.nl/%7Eusa/D/1601-1650/maryland/mta_i.htm), this was the first law of its type in the British Empire, and it granted religious freedom to all people. Afterward, a group of Puritans fled from Virginia to Maryland, which became famous for its religious freedom. However, the act was soon repealed, and Protestant settlers overthrew Calvert’s government in 1654. Control of Maryland seesawed between Protestant-led and Catholic-led governments into the next century. In 1692, the Anglican Church became the established church of Maryland. In 1718, Roman Catholics in Maryland lost their right to vote, which they did not regain until 1776.
When the Bill of Rights to the U.S. Constitution was adopted in 1791, the First Amendment guaranteed that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This provision ensured that no one religion would be favored over another and protected religious groups from unfair treatment by the federal government. Still it did not protect against unfair treatment by state governments. Indeed, the amendment was thought by many to protect against congressional interference with state governments' involvement with religion-that is, it was thought to prohibit the U.S. Congress from “disestablishing” churches established by state governments.
New Hampshire and other states passed laws until the mid-1800s that kept non-Protestants from holding public office. Connecticut, Massachusetts, and several other states declared official churches. Since the 1940s, the Supreme Court has ruled that all states must uphold the First Amendment’s religious freedom guarantees. However, disagreement abounds in the Court and in the public square regarding how strictly the Establishment Clause should be interpreted. The “accommodationist” viewpoint, simply put, holds that government accommodation or support of religion is not unconstitutional unless some sort of force or persuasion is involved. The “separationist” viewpoint contemplates a much stricter, if not absolute, separation of church and state. More recently, several justices, led by Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, have argued in favor of a third approach-a so called “no endorsement” analysis. Under this approach, the court would decide Establishment Clause claims by determining whether a hypothetical “reasonable observer” would view the challenged activity as sending a message that the government supported or endorsed the religious message.
In 1947 in Everson v. Board of Education of the Township of Ewing (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/330/1.html) , 330 U.S. 1, 29, the justices agreed with Thomas Jefferson that the constitution’s clause against establishment of religion by law was meant “to erect a wall of separation between church and state” and required government neutrality between religion and nonreligion as well as between different religions. The court also made clear that the prohibition against government establishment of religion extended to state governments as well as to the U.S. Congress. But the Court split on whether the government could reimburse parents for transporting their children to religious as well as public school, ruling 5-4 that such funding as permissible.
In subsequent cases, the justices proposed and argued over various tests they might use to determine whether a challenged government policy or practice was constitutional. To date, they haven’t found one on which they all agree. In 1962 in Engel v. Vitale (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/370/421.html) , 370 U.S. 421, 431, the Court ruled that public schools may not require the recitation of prayers, yet the concept of public school prayer was not abandoned by the public. In 2000 Santa Fe Independent School District vs. Doe (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=99-62) , 120 S.Ct. 2266 (2000), asked the Court whether student-led and student-initiated pregame prayers were constitutional. The majority again said no, in a 6-3 decision. More cases involving the many and varied school prayer arguments are sure to follow, as will the public debate involving the Establishment Clause, the freedoms of religion and speech, and how thick the wall of separation should be.

[jafar00]

sounds like the public school i went to as a kid. not quite as extreme but. at lunch the teachers would pray before meals and at school recitals we sang christian songs.
it was just the way it was, no fuss no muss, most of the parents, even the rowdier loud cussing parents of some of my friends had ZERO problem with it.
Now if i were a Muslum or an atheist parent i'd probably take some exception. but i knew of NONE in the community.

so is it wrong for the school to reinforce Christians teachings that the children are getting at home -more or less- anyway?

But people can't just be practical here. In these cases the Constitution must be obeyed, other places not so much

I had the same at public Primary School. To this day, I can still recite the Lord's Prayer. It didn't do me any harm. I became aware and turned to Islam :D

[gabosaurus]

Religion doesn't belong in public schools. Because not everyone is religious.

[tailfins]

Religion doesn't belong in public schools. Because not everyone is religious.

Schools sure have gotten more productive since they banned it in 1962. :banned:

[Abbey Marie]

I would be more accepting of a total ban on religion in schools (and other swell ideas such as anal sex posters), if our children had the option of not attending. As it is, they must attend. And no, not everyone can afford private school. Or even homeschooling, which requires one parent to forego earning income, or paying someone else to do it. Vouchers would be one possible solution.

As for the separation of church and state, at some point maybe people will actually understand/admit that it was written to be sure we do not repeat the English method of a state-sponsored religion. It was a far cry from, and was not intended to be, an excuse to erase all religion from the public eye. So sad.

ETA: Those awful messages in the OP! Those poor suffering children.

[jafar00]

Religion doesn't belong in public schools. Because not everyone is religious.

Can you imagine what a bunch of ten year old boys did to the prayer? I think you can guess what we said in place of the word "art" in "Our father who art in heaven" ;)

[DragonStryk72]

So what? So let one kid stop the wants of the majority. That path has got us to the point we at today. This is how ridiculous the libs are. 1000 kids are ok with it but if one--just one is not we must stop it. This author proudly roots for the ffing tyranny of the minority. Notice how none of this is ever complained about in the muslim schools. How tolerance is called for when they make religious demands!?? How infidels move heaven and earth to yield to their damn demands. Even forcing Christians to go on field trips visiting mosques etc. -Tyr

No, sorry, but this public school went way over the line, and I say this as someone who went to Catholic school quite happily. When you make Catholic school seem like a group of lax secularists, you've gone too far, Tyr.

I have no issue with respect for religions being taught in public school, and I think trying to keep religious holidays out of schools is just silly, since there are obvious teaching points that can be shown about these holidays and their history.

However, when your public school is "JESUS! JESUS! JESUS!", you have lost the point of both being a school, and the message of Christ, who seemed to get by in his life without feeling any need to beat everyone over the head with his beliefs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

No, sorry, but this public school went way over the line, and I say this as someone who went to Catholic school quite happily. When you make Catholic school seem like a group of lax secularists, you've gone too far, Tyr.

I have no issue with respect for religions being taught in public school, and I think trying to keep religious holidays out of schools is just silly, since there are obvious teaching points that can be shown about these holidays and their history.

However, when your public school is "JESUS! JESUS! JESUS!", you have lost the point of both being a school, and the message of Christ, who seemed to get by in his life without feeling any need to beat everyone over the head with his beliefs.
Was making a point about the hypocrisy of the government schools forcing kids to accept and explore Islam(!) while always seeking new ways to zero out Christianity. Of course the described status in that school made it look like a privately funded Christian school instead of a public school. Sure they went overboard . My point is the Feds SHOULDNT be in the education game . It all should go back to the states and let each one manage it. There should be no National Department of Education. Then each community can decide how much or how little religion to allow in school. When I went to public school in the lower grades almost every teacher led a prayer at the start of the first class of the morning and then we all recited the pledge of allegiance---nobody died from it and nobody complained ---not even the hell raisers amongst us. High school less prayer but still mention of God and posters were in some classrooms. We also had male teachers and principals that knew how to swing a mean ass paddle. School went fairly smoothly back then because of the God influence and PADDLING. Unlike now where they need extra security , cops and metal detectors in school. -Tyr

[revelarts]

No, sorry, but this public school went way over the line, and I say this as someone who went to Catholic school quite happily. When you make Catholic school seem like a group of lax secularists, you've gone too far, Tyr.

I have no issue with respect for religions being taught in public school, and I think trying to keep religious holidays out of schools is just silly, since there are obvious teaching points that can be shown about these holidays and their history.

However, when your public school is "JESUS! JESUS! JESUS!", you have lost the point of both being a school, and the message of Christ, who seemed to get by in his life without feeling any need to beat everyone over the head with his beliefs.

So Roman Catholic schools don't teach children anything else but "Jesus Jesus Jesus"? So Sister Ann is wrong teaching elemetary school kids and Norte dame should never mention God, I mean BEAT PEOPLE OVER THE HEAD. REAL education is completely lost because of Prayers Bible reading etc? C'mon you know that's false DS?
MOST early education in the U.S. had and aspect of the JESUS JESUS JESUS.
I believe one of the original children's grammer and english training books started with something like A is for Adam
"Before McGuffey, the schoolbook which had educated generations of American youth had been the old New England Primer. Reflecting the stern Calvinism of colonial times, it began the teaching of the alphabet with "A is for Adam" and followed with a sobering couplet: "In Adam's fall, we sinned all."


JESUS JESUS JESUS is not some block to learning reading, writing, arthritic, science or history. One of the MAIN reasons for western Literacy is the Protestant ideal that EVERY man should be able to read so that he or she could read the word of God for themselves. And frankly the churches have created literate people by creating written forms of native languages so peoples groups everywhere could read for themselves about JESUS JESUS JESUS.
annnnd by side benefit document their own histories and stories in a written form as well.

[revelarts]

education higher and lower Jesus Jesus Jesus


"Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth – all owe their origins to the gospel.

Probably no segment of American society has turned out a greater number of illustrious graduates than New England’s Ivy League. Labels like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, still carry their own mystique and a certain aura of elitism and prestige.
Yet perhaps it would surprise most to learn that almost every Ivy League school was established primarily to train ministers of the gospel – and to evangelize the Atlantic seaboard.


Harvard, 1638
It only took eighteen years from the time the Pilgrims set foot on Plymouth Rock until the Puritans, who were among the most educated people of their day, founded the first and perhaps most famous Ivy League school. Their story, in brief, is etched today in an entry way to Harvard Yard:

“After God had carried us safely to New England, and we had built our houses, provided necessaries for our livelihood, reared convenient places for God’s worship, and settled the civil government; one of the next things we longed for, and looked after was to advance learning, and perpetuate it to posterity; dreading to leave an illiterate ministry to the churches, when our present ministers shall lie in the dust....”


....Yale
.....Princeton
....Dartmouth


Columbia, William and Mary, Rutgers, Brown & UPenn
The first president of New York’s Columbia University, first known as “King’s College,” at one time served as a missionary to America under the English-based “Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts.” The Church of England established the College of William and Mary, near today’s colonial Williamsburg. Dutch Reformed revivalists founded Queen’s College (later Rutgers University) in New Jersey. Brown University originated with the Baptist churches scattered on the Atlantic seaboard. With the exception of the University of Pennsylvania, every collegiate institution founded in the colonies prior to the Revolutionary War was established by some branch of the Christian Church.



Reprinted from The Rebirth of America, published by the Arthur S. DeMoss Foundation.
http://www.amazon.com/Rebirth-America-arthur-demoss-foundation/dp/B000OK6RRQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391003748&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Rebirth+of+America

Sadly they've fallen far away from the there roots as has the rest of the country.

[DragonStryk72]

So Roman Catholic schools don't teach children anything else but "Jesus Jesus Jesus"? So Sister Ann is wrong teaching elemetary school kids and Norte dame should never mention God, I mean BEAT PEOPLE OVER THE HEAD. REAL education is completely lost because of Prayers Bible reading etc? C'mon you know that's false DS?
MOST early education in the U.S. had and aspect of the JESUS JESUS JESUS.
I believe one of the original children's grammer and english training books started with something like A is for Adam
"Before McGuffey, the schoolbook which had educated generations of American youth had been the old New England Primer. Reflecting the stern Calvinism of colonial times, it began the teaching of the alphabet with "A is for Adam" and followed with a sobering couplet: "In Adam's fall, we sinned all."


JESUS JESUS JESUS is not some block to learning reading, writing, arthritic, science or history. One of the MAIN reasons for western Literacy is the Protestant ideal that EVERY man should be able to read so that he or she could read the word of God for themselves. And frankly the churches have created literate people by creating written forms of native languages so peoples groups everywhere could read for themselves about JESUS JESUS JESUS.
annnnd by side benefit document their own histories and stories in a written form as well.

Teaching theology does not require the entire public school curriculum to revolve around it, a giant electronic prayer sign at the public school, murals throughout the public school that are purely religious, etc..

Teaching Christ should not ever be something being shouted, Rev. Sorry, but you're just wrong here. Again, I went to Catholic School and it was less religious than this public school. I never contested that education can come from the church, else-wise I would not have an education, but I do.

The majority of my time in Catholic school had nothing to do with Catholicism or Jesus, despite the nuns and priests working there. Yes, we had our morning prayer, which was done over the school's CCTV, and we of course had masses. Multiple prayers per diem? No. Giant signs crowding the walls? No.

Christ's neither needs, nor should, be screamed at people. If you are, you're missing the message of your own stated faith. Again, Rev, Christ saw no reason to beat everyone over the head with his message.

But here, we're again talking about a school that went way over the line of separation of church and state. This isn't about something like where a school tried to sing Silent Night without any religious references (You'll remember me getting off on a rant about that), or when people get bent out of shape because the school had a Christmas party. This school legitimately is in the wrong here, and went way too far, and knew they were doing it.

Again, when you're making private Catholic schools look like secularists, you've done something wrong.

[revelarts]

DS i was commenting on your assertions that
IF a "public school is "JESUS! JESUS! JESUS!", you have lost the point of both being a school, and the message of Christ, who seemed to get by in his life without feeling any need to beat everyone over the head with his beliefs."

the 'lost the point of BEING A SCHOOL' is what i was addressing.
THAT is false. period
I've already commented on the idea of whether or not public school COULD do what they do. And I think IF THE PARENTS of the the children are -100% fine with it then there's no problem.
It's their local school, their children and their taxes. But if just one kid comes in who's parents have a problem with it. then sadly they'd be legally obligated to stop most of it, at least at one school. But signs/poster with verses from the Bible or Shakespeare or Confucius or even the Koran are NOT an establishment of religion.

Again it's an area where some people somehow seem to have a holy clarity on what the Constitution means here for ever and ever amen but the rest of it is a "living document".

But to address 'losing the point of Jesus's message' part, you mention that
"Christ's neither needs, nor should, be screamed at people. If you are, you're missing the message of your own stated faith. Again, Rev, Christ saw no reason to beat everyone over the head with his message."

were the teachers SCREAMING Jesus at the children DS? really? Screaming?
or just saying it.
Is it wrong to mention Jesus more than twice a day in public?
PLEASE GIVE ME A DEFINITION of what you mean by "beat everyone over the head with his message."
exactly when does telling his massages become A BEAT DOWN? should Jesus never be mentioned at school, because THAT"S A BEATING.
Is a Sign on the wall A BEATING. If it says something else about sex or exercise or smoking is THAT a beating too, or is that that just communicating.

I've been around pushy, aggressive religious people and a few atheist, I know what comes to my mind as a religious beating. It includes for one a really nasty aggressive hard sale attitude, then the victim is buffeted with info they haven't asked for, And the beating often comes completely out of left field and often the victim doesn't even know it's coming and never really tried to engage in the conversation at all.. I get that.

But some people will boldly speak some false, pissy or blasphemous comment about God, the Bible or Jesus then get a serious Christian rebut, then Claim to be victims of pushy Christians trying to shove religion down their throats. Well If they didn't want to discuss it they shouldn't have started. Jesus and Paul answered nearly every question and commented publicly on even some stray comments and actions.
Jesus and the Apostles didn't make everyone feel good by what they said or by keeping silent so as not to offend. the Priest told them to Shut UP, 'Stop shoving your religion on the people', but they didn't.

what i don't get is that the idea that having a few prayers at school a few signs on the walls and teachers who probably talk about God and Jesus from time to time, Is BEAT DOWN. When i was Kid at school there were REAL Paddle beatings for various rule breaking. that was a beating.
But the Prayers and Bible verses were EXTREMELY benign and moral. Even if i didn't understand it or really believe it.

If i lived in Nashville would i be BEAT DOWN with all the country music reference, images, history and songs i'd be exposed to every day? Does country music really NEED THAT? does Johnny Cash, Hank Williams and Pasty Kline need that? Why are they always shoving country music down peoples throats there in Nashville?!! is country music an established STATE music or something? what if i like POLKA!?

look Christianity is not a stone, if people feel beaten by it it's probably not because someone mentioned Jesus more than twice a day in their presence in public, at their schools or place of business.

I'd really like someone to explain to me honestly what they define as people BEATING on others with the message of Jesus.

[Abbey Marie]

No, sorry, but this public school went way over the line, and I say this as someone who went to Catholic school quite happily. When you make Catholic school seem like a group of lax secularists, you've gone too far, Tyr.

I have no issue with respect for religions being taught in public school, and I think trying to keep religious holidays out of schools is just silly, since there are obvious teaching points that can be shown about these holidays and their history.

However, when your public school is "JESUS! JESUS! JESUS!", you have lost the point of both being a school, and the message of Christ, who seemed to get by in his life without feeling any need to beat everyone over the head with his beliefs.


DS, I am going to have to disagree with that last (bolded) statement. If you read the gospels, Jesus was the very essence of in-your-face. Not necessarily in a loud, yelling sort of way, but the Bible tells us he spent his days preaching, telling people enthusiastically about His father, and the need for salvation, wherever He went. He did not hold back, either, when chastising the scribes and Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers, hypocrites, and wicked. And he warned sinning cities of their coming judgment, telling them they would fare worse than Sodom & Gomorrah. Jesus was hardly the shrinking violet He is often portrayed as by popular secular culture, and even many of our denominational religions.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

DS, I am going to have to disagree with that last (bolded) statement. If you read the gospels. Jesus was the very essence of in-your-face. Not necessarily in a loud, yelling sort of way, but the Bible tells us he spent his days preaching, and telling people enthusiastically about His father, and the need for salvation. He did not hold back, either, when chastising the scribes and Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers, hypocrites, and wicked. And he warned sinning cities of their coming judgment, telling them they would fare worse than Sodom & Gomorrah. Jesus was hardly the shrinking violet He is often portrayed as by popular secular culture, and even many of our denominational religions.
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
[QUOTE]…14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. 15And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."…[/ QUOTE] ^^^^ Does not sound timid to me. I'd say rather vigorous and very manly to do such a thing. Does anybody think those moneychangers and animal sellers were not afraid? They ran away which points to being very fearful of the man knocking their tables over and telling them to leave.-Tyr

[jafar00]

DS, I am going to have to disagree with that last (bolded) statement. If you read the gospels. Jesus was the very essence of in-your-face. Not necessarily in a loud, yelling sort of way, but the Bible tells us he spent his days preaching, and telling people enthusiastically about His father, and the need for salvation. He did not hold back, either, when chastising the scribes and Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers, hypocrites, and wicked. And he warned sinning cities of their coming judgment, telling them they would fare worse than Sodom & Gomorrah. Jesus was hardly the shrinking violet He is often portrayed as by popular secular culture, and even many of our denominational religions.

You are right. He was a Prophet afterall and like all Prophets, he worked hard to spread the Message from God and endured great persecution and conflict to do so.

It's a pity nobody really listened to him.

[DragonStryk72]

Jesus Cleanses the Temple
[QUOTE]…14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. 15And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."…[/ QUOTE] ^^^^ Does not sound timid to me. I'd say rather vigorous and very manly to do such a thing. Does anybody think those moneychangers and animal sellers were not afraid? They ran away which points to being very fearful of the man knocking their tables over and telling them to leave.-Tyr

Actually, even there, you have to realize he wasn't preaching. I never said Jesus was timid, just that beating people over the head with his beliefs wasn't his thing. Even in the scenario you've listed, his reaction is due to others defiling a holy place by turning the temple into a marketplace.

Read the Gospels again, Christ's only times of really getting up in someone's face are when they have done something to start it, whether it be the traders, the pharisees, or whatnot. He is never up in anyone's face until they have done something to put him there.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You are right. He was a Prophet afterall and like all Prophets, he worked hard to spread the Message from God and endured great persecution and conflict to do so.

It's a pity nobody really listened to him.
Yes, nobody.. --Tyr


http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/ Global Christianity – A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World’s Christian Population A comprehensive demographic study of more than 200 countries finds that there are 2.18 billion Christians of all ages around the world, representing nearly a third of the estimated 2010 global population of 6.9 billion. Christians are also geographically widespread – so far-flung, in fact, that no single continent or region can indisputably claim to be the center of global Christianity.

A century ago, this was not the case. In 1910, about two-thirds of the world’s Christians lived in Europe, where the bulk of Christians had been for a millennium, according to historical estimates by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity.2 Today, only about a quarter of all Christians live in Europe (26%). A plurality – more than a third – now are in the Americas (37%). About one in every four Christians lives in sub-Saharan Africa (24%), and about one-in-eight is found in Asia and the Pacific (13%).
Strange how you missed 2.18 billion people!!!! --Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE=Tyr-Ziu Saxnot;681837]Jesus Cleanses the Temple


Actually, even there, you have to realize he wasn't preaching. I never said Jesus was timid, just that beating people over the head with his beliefs wasn't his thing. Even in the scenario you've listed, his reaction is due to others defiling a holy place by turning the temple into a marketplace.

Read the Gospels again, Christ's only times of really getting up in someone's face are when they have done something to start it, whether it be the traders, the pharisees, or whatnot. He is never up in anyone's face until they have done something to put him there. I agree with you on that . Jesus was no bully. He did exhibit force when it was a necessary thing to do. Desecration of his Father's house surely qualified. He preached to all that would listen and never forced any person to listen. --Tyr

[Arbo]

Its not as though there's anything in the US constitution about the government not establishing religion...:rolleyes:

Heaven forbid some actually read and understand the constitution. Or understand the power of authority over kids.

That crap doesn't belong in schools. Period.

[revelarts]

Jesus Cleanses the Temple


Actually, even there, you have to realize he wasn't preaching. I never said Jesus was timid, just that beating people over the head with his beliefs wasn't his thing. Even in the scenario you've listed, his reaction is due to others defiling a holy place by turning the temple into a marketplace.

Read the Gospels again, Christ's only times of really getting up in someone's face are when they have done something to start it, whether it be the traders, the pharisees, or whatnot. He is never up in anyone's face until they have done something to put him there.

"beating people over the head with ... beliefs"
you really believe this is horrible problem, you seem to think it's a worse sin/offense than many others issues discussed on the board that you've given a sorta mild pass to.

"beating people over the head with ... beliefs"
OK please define with examples

[Abbey Marie]

You are right. He was a Prophet afterall and like all Prophets, he worked hard to spread the Message from God and endured great persecution and conflict to do so.

It's a pity nobody really listened to him.


Everything that happened was foretold, fulfilling the OT prophecies. God knew what would happen. But thousands did listen to Him. It was with His chosen people that He had the most resistance.
We have been listening ever since.

[revelarts]

You are right. He was a Prophet afterall and like all Prophets, he worked hard to spread the Message from God and endured great persecution and conflict to do so.

It's a pity nobody really listened to him.

Are you listening to Him?

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

Matthew 16: 13-17