More special status being given out and gues who gets it?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/govt-offers-approach-classroom-discipline-21456860 Gov't: Most School Discipline Need Not Mean Court

WASHINGTON January 8, 2014 (AP)

By KIMBERLY HEFLING AP Education Writer The Obama administration on Wednesday pressed the nation's schools to abandon what it described as overly zealous discipline policies that send students to court instead of the principal's office. Even before the announcement, school districts around the country have been taking action to adjust the policies that disproportionately affect minority students.

Attorney General Eric Holder said problems often stem from well intentioned "zero-tolerance" policies that can inject the criminal justice system into school matters.

"A routine school disciplinary infraction should land a student in the principal's office, not in a police precinct," Holder said.

But it's about race, too, the government said in a letter accompanying the new guidelines it issued Wednesday.

"In our investigations, we have found cases where African-American students were disciplined more harshly and more frequently because of their race than similarly situated white students," the Justice Department and Education Department said in the letter to school districts. "In short, racial discrimination in school discipline is a real problem."

The guidelines are not the first administration action regarding tough-on-crime laws or policies of the 1980s and '90s that have lost support more broadly since then. Holder announced last summer that he was instructing federal prosecutors to stop charging nonviolent drug offenders with crimes that carry mandatory minimum sentences, a change affecting crack cocaine sentences that have disproportionately affected minorities. And just before Christmas, President Barack Obama commuted the sentences of eight people serving long drug sentences.

The federal school discipline recommendations are nonbinding. They encourage schools to ensure that all school personnel are trained in classroom management, conflict resolution and approaches to de-escalate classroom disruptions — and understand that they are responsible for administering routine student discipline instead of security or police officers.

Still, Education Secretary Arne Duncan has acknowledged the challenge is finding the proper balance to keep schools safe and orderly.

The administration said that it would attempt to work out voluntary settlements if school disciplinary policies are found to violate federal civil rights laws.

That happened in Meridian, Miss., where the Justice Department spearheaded a settlement with the school district to end discriminatory disciplinary practices. The black students in the district were facing harsher punishment than white students for similar misbehavior.

Absent a voluntary agreement, the department could go to court to provide relief for individual students, among other things.

Zero-tolerance policies became popular in the 1990s and often have been accompanied by a greater police presence in schools. The policies often spell out uniform and swift punishment for offenses such as truancy, smoking or carrying a weapon. Violators can lose classroom time or even end up with a criminal record.

In Akron, Ohio, Superintendent David W. James said a recent analysis found higher percentages of black students being disciplined in almost every category. He said he's been criticized for not suspending African-American kids seen by teachers as a threat where he didn't think action was warranted.

James said he hopes the administration's effort will provide leverage for districts with parents, teachers and communities. So these idiots finally see that blacks are a problem and engage in crime and violence at a much higher rate that whites so what do they do? Instead of acknowledging that and cracking down on them they choose to just give them passes on most of it !! Passes whites will not get because government is mandating it be given to a minority. Folks that is government deliberately breaking equal protection under the law. A crime a black will just be talked to about in principal's office will send a white kid to jail. Notice they made the exemption to concentrate on blacks! This is pure discrimination and only a fool would think it is not IMHO. The bamscum and Holder further dividing this nation. Media does along with it !! -Tyr

[Gaffer]

What do you expect from nigger holder? He's a despicable piece of shit.

[fj1200]

Gov't: Most School Discipline Need Not Mean Court

...

Attorney General Eric Holder said problems often stem from well intentioned "zero-tolerance" policies that can inject the criminal justice system into school matters.

...

"In our investigations, we have found cases where African-American students were disciplined more harshly and more frequently because of their race than similarly situated white students," the Justice Department and Education Department said in the letter to school districts. "In short, racial discrimination in school discipline is a real problem."

...

That happened in Meridian, Miss., where the Justice Department spearheaded a settlement with the school district to end discriminatory disciplinary practices. The black students in the district were facing harsher punishment than white students for similar misbehavior.

...

Zero-tolerance policies became popular in the 1990s and often have been accompanied by a greater police presence in schools. The policies often spell out uniform and swift punishment for offenses such as truancy, smoking or carrying a weapon. Violators can lose classroom time or even end up with a criminal record.

So these idiots finally see that blacks are a problem and engage in crime and violence at a much higher rate that whites so what do they do? Instead of acknowledging that and cracking down on them they choose to just give them passes on most of it !! Passes whites will not get because government is mandating it be given to a minority. Folks that is government deliberately breaking equal protection under the law. A crime a black will just be talked to about in principal's office will send a white kid to jail. Notice they made the exemption to concentrate on blacks!

Your conclusion doesn't match the story. If black students suffer punishment at a higher rate then that equates to discrimination. Are you now for zero-tolerance policies?

Nevertheless, school discipline shoudn't mean court.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Your conclusion doesn't match the story. If black students suffer punishment at a higher rate then that equates to discrimination. Are you now for zero-tolerance policies?

Nevertheless, school discipline shoudn't mean court. Really? That is what you got from the link? Not the fact the gubbermint wants to give blacks a pass . I said blacks, not whites. Seems to me that zero tolerance policies put the spotlight on just what group does cause the most problems so now Holder , Bamscum and others want to make exemption for the majority group(guilty) being punished but still have in place a way to punish whites. Strange how you missed that.....Tyr

[fj1200]

Really? That is what you got from the link? Not the fact the gubbermint wants to give blacks a pass . I said blacks, not whites. Seems to me that zero tolerance policies put the spotlight on just what group does cause the most problems so now Holder , Bamscum and others want to make exemption for the majority group(guilty) being punished but still have in place a way to punish whites. Strange how you missed that.....Tyr

I didn't miss anything, as I stated your conclusion doesn't the story. So yes, that's what I got from the link. Did I miss that you're for zero tolerance? Because ZTP are why pop-tarts in the form of guns leads to suspensions.

[DragonStryk72]

Really? That is what you got from the link? Not the fact the gubbermint wants to give blacks a pass . I said blacks, not whites. Seems to me that zero tolerance policies put the spotlight on just what group does cause the most problems so now Holder , Bamscum and others want to make exemption for the majority group(guilty) being punished but still have in place a way to punish whites. Strange how you missed that.....Tyr

Hey, you remember that time that some virginia beach kids got suspended for a whole year, for playing with airsoft guns off school property, during non-school hours, in their own neighborhood? Yeah, that's the zero-tolerance that's being talked about, and it's a huge problem across the board, not just with blacks but whites.

No kid should be looking at suspension for eating his pop-tart into the shape of a pistol, or idiotic crap like that, but that's exactly what these zero-tolerance policies do. They take two kids, one who is a habitual offender, and a kid who is on the honor roll and never had a previous problem, and treats them both like career criminals.

You're focusing on the wrong point in the article, Tyr. You see the disproportionate punishment of blacks as opposed to whites, but really, getting rid of zero-tolerance is a good thing. It unbinds the teachers' hands and let's them let the honor roll student off with a warning, or some detention, while punishing the habitual offender as a habitual offender.

[aboutime]

Your conclusion doesn't match the story. If black students suffer punishment at a higher rate then that equates to discrimination. Are you now for zero-tolerance policies?

Nevertheless, school discipline shoudn't mean court.



Obviously. What hasn't been mentioned...Honestly, by anyone on this topic is. The larger number of students who are being punished....JUST HAPPEN TO BE BLACK students, because the White students FEAR them, and know how their classrooms are being disrupted by Black students who instantly claim discrimination...while the scared teachers cower in corners...fearing they will lose their jobs, or be accused of racial profiling by PUNISHING the GUILTY students...no matter what color their skin happens to be.
WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH.
Obama and Holder...DO NOT WANT US TO REPEAT IT, TALK ABOUT IT, OR USE IT BECAUSE....It spoils their OWN RACIST IDEA'S OF DIVISION OF HUMANS.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hey, you remember that time that some virginia beach kids got suspended for a whole year, for playing with airsoft guns off school property, during non-school hours, in their own neighborhood? Yeah, that's the zero-tolerance that's being talked about, and it's a huge problem across the board, not just with blacks but whites.

No kid should be looking at suspension for eating his pop-tart into the shape of a pistol, or idiotic crap like that, but that's exactly what these zero-tolerance policies do. They take two kids, one who is a habitual offender, and a kid who is on the honor roll and never had a previous problem, and treats them both like career criminals.

You're focusing on the wrong point in the article, Tyr. You see the disproportionate punishment of blacks as opposed to whites, but really, getting rid of zero-tolerance is a good thing. It unbinds the teachers' hands and let's them let the honor roll student off with a warning, or some detention, while punishing the habitual offender as a habitual offender. Apparently you missed this part. --Tyr

But it's about race, too, the government said in a letter accompanying the new guidelines it issued Wednesday.

"In our investigations, we have found cases where African-American students were disciplined more harshly and more frequently because of their race than similarly situated white students," the Justice Department and Education Department said in the letter to school districts. "In short, racial discrimination in school discipline is a real problem."

The guidelines are not the first administration action regarding tough-on-crime laws or policies of the 1980s and '90s that have lost support more broadly since then. Holder announced last summer that he was instructing federal prosecutors to stop charging nonviolent drug offenders with crimes that carry mandatory minimum sentences, a change affecting crack cocaine sentences that have disproportionately affected minorities. And just before Christmas, President Barack Obama commuted the sentences of eight people serving long drug sentences.

The federal school discipline recommendations are nonbinding. They encourage schools to ensure that all school personnel are trained in classroom management, conflict resolution and approaches to de-escalate classroom disruptions — and understand that they are responsible for administering routine student discipline instead of security or police officers.

Still, Education Secretary Arne Duncan has acknowledged the challenge is finding the proper balance to keep schools safe and orderly. I did not see in the article where the government was proposing doing away with zero tolerance crap. When they highlighted it was about race I knew it was about giving blacks a pass!! Picking out one race to give special status to. Anybody, show me where it stated doing away with zero tolerance crap. What happened was zero tolerance gave no way to let blacks skate. The correction the government will make is designed to give minorities a pass! Show me why any minority should get a pass that any other white kid shouldn't get as well. -Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

Apparently you missed this part. --Tyr
. I did not see in the article where the government was proposing doing away with zero tolerance crap. When they highlighted it was about race I knew it was about giving blacks a pass!! Picking out one race to give special status to. Anybody, show me where it stated doing away with zero tolerance crap. What happened was zero tolerance gave no way to let blacks skate. The correction the government will make is designed to give minorities a pass! Show me why any minority should get a pass that any other white kid shouldn't get as well. -Tyr

From the article:


Gov't: Most School Discipline Need Not Mean Court

WASHINGTON January 8, 2014 (AP)

By KIMBERLY HEFLING AP Education Writer The Obama administration on Wednesday pressed the nation's schools to abandon what it described as overly zealous discipline policies that send students to court instead of the principal's office. Even before the announcement, school districts around the country have been taking action to adjust the policies that disproportionately affect minority students.

Attorney General Eric Holder said problems often stem from well intentioned "zero-tolerance" policies that can inject the criminal justice system into school matters.

"A routine school disciplinary infraction should land a student in the principal's office, not in a police precinct," Holder said.

They highlight that it was also about race, which should have been the tip-off that it was mainly about something else.

I'm not arguing that schools should treat infractions differently between whites and blacks, and no one on here is arguing that. However, zero-tolerance policies are not helping in that regard, because they require that no logical sense be used in punishments. Again, going back to the honor roll student with a clean record, that person, regardless of race, should not be getting treated the same way as the repeat offender, but that's exactly what the zero-tolerance policy forces us into.

As to more blacks than whites getting nailed for offenses, that statistic really doesn't cover the full picture of the problem. Because "thug" culture has become so very prominent in many inner-city areas, there's a greater prevalence of children being raised by parents who are thugging it up themselves, leading them to believe that is proper behavior. When this attitude comes into the school, it obviously is going to lead them into greater trouble, because they are acting in precisely the manner that's going to get them into the most trouble.

I think the key lies more in teaching the inner-city children that there are many upswings to learning and using appropriate behavior. I don't think these kids get how much they set themselves up for failure due to the manner in which they comport themselves. Simply knowing the right way to speak to interviewers, customers, and cops would change a lot of fortunes in their area. I've seen people show up to interviews for a job in baggy jeans and jerseys, and they talk like they haven't learned proper English at any point, and then hear them complain when they don't get the job.

As long as the thug lifestyle is still being glorified, there's still going to be the problem of blacks getting hit more than whites.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

From the article:



They highlight that it was also about race, which should have been the tip-off that it was mainly about something else.

I'm not arguing that schools should treat infractions differently between whites and blacks, and no one on here is arguing that. However, zero-tolerance policies are not helping in that regard, because they require that no logical sense be used in punishments. Again, going back to the honor roll student with a clean record, that person, regardless of race, should not be getting treated the same way as the repeat offender, but that's exactly what the zero-tolerance policy forces us into.

As to more blacks than whites getting nailed for offenses, that statistic really doesn't cover the full picture of the problem. Because "thug" culture has become so very prominent in many inner-city areas, there's a greater prevalence of children being raised by parents who are thugging it up themselves, leading them to believe that is proper behavior. When this attitude comes into the school, it obviously is going to lead them into greater trouble, because they are acting in precisely the manner that's going to get them into the most trouble.

I think the key lies more in teaching the inner-city children that there are many upswings to learning and using appropriate behavior. I don't think these kids get how much they set themselves up for failure due to the manner in which they comport themselves. Simply knowing the right way to speak to interviewers, customers, and cops would change a lot of fortunes in their area. I've seen people show up to interviews for a job in baggy jeans and jerseys, and they talk like they haven't learned proper English at any point, and then hear them complain when they don't get the job.

As long as the thug lifestyle is still being glorified, there's still going to be the problem of blacks getting hit more than whites. I detest the zero tolerance crap, always have. What government should do is remove it from schools. As it denies justice and tries to make a COOKIE CUTTER APPROACH to the handling of all problems. It insured as much unfairness as it did fairness , in fact more unfairness IMHO. Its like shooting all the dogs because one or two don't hunt! A dumbass policy from start to finish if we ever get to a finish on it. Government pointing out reality that blacks as a group engage in far more uncivil and illegal acts is not just cause for the remedy they suggest in that article. The remedy is to do away with the zero tolerance policy and go back to how it done before. Each community set the standards for their own school system in which all criminal activity above misdemeanor level must be reported to the cops , the rest the school handles. Expulsion from school being the primary punishment for major offenses and that set by local school boards. What bamscum and crew want to set is a special status section in which gets placed blacks and other special groups he likes. Where all the rest still have to live under the Zero Tolerance insanity that was DREAMED UP BY LIBERAL ASSHATS. Equal protection under the law says what they propose now is actually an illegal act. When has that ever stopped the damn little dictator? That's my point. I was by no means defending in anyway the stupid and ridiculous Zero tolerance policy. --Tyr

[aboutime]

The best, greatest, most effective method used today in politics to CEASE discussions, stop arguments, close someone's mouth is...."USING RACE, RACISM, and RACISTS" as an excuse to disguise all of the STUPIDITY, IGNORANCE, and LACK OF EDUCATION.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-mandates-racism-schools-080000319.html
Obama Administration Mandates Racism in Schools
Mona Charen
By Mona Charen
January 17, 2014 3:00 AM
The Departments of Education and Justice have teamed up to make the lives of students in tough neighborhoods even tougher. Framed as a measure to combat discrimination against black and Hispanic children, the guidelines issued by the Obama administration about school discipline will actually encourage racial discrimination, undermine the learning environments of classrooms and contribute to an unjust race-consciousness in meting out discipline.


Claiming that African-American and Hispanic students are more harshly disciplined than whites for the same infractions, the Obama administration now advises that any disciplinary rule that results in a "disparate impact" on these groups will be challenged by the government.

"Disparate impact" analysis, as we've seen in employment law, does not require any intentional discrimination. It means, for example, that if an employer asks job seekers to take a test, and a larger percentage of one ethnic group fails the test than another, that the test is de facto discriminatory because it has a "disparate impact."

In the school context, the federal government is now arguing that if a disciplinary rule results in more black, Hispanic or special education kids being suspended or otherwise sanctioned, the rule must be suspect. The "Dear Colleague" letter explains that a disciplinary policy can be unlawful discrimination, even if the rule is "neutral on its face ... and is administered in an evenhanded manner," if it has a "disparate impact" on certain ethnic and other groups.

The inclusion of special education students is particularly perverse, as special ed students frequently get that designation because their emotional disturbances cause them to misbehave in various ways. So if a rule against, say, knocking over desks, is found to be violated more frequently by special ed than regular ed students, then the rule must be questioned? That's circular.

As the CATO Institute's Walter Olson notes, the federal guidelines pass over one example of disparate impact with no comment — namely the dramatically more males than females who face disciplinary action nationwide. If we are to judge a rule's lawfulness by the disparate impact on males, no rule would survive the inquiry. Is it possible that more boys misbehave in the classroom than girls? To ask this question is to venture into an area the federal government would have us avoid. Actual infractions by individuals are not the issue. We must have group justice, not individual justice.

We've actually been down this road many times before. Various state and federal agencies have raised concerns about the large numbers of black and Hispanic students facing disciplinary action. Such concerns helped to generate the rigid "zero tolerance" policies the administration now condemns. Zero tolerance is a brainless approach to a subject that requires considerable finesse and deliberation, but the disparate impact rule is even more pernicious.

Under the new dispensation, teachers, principals and other officials will have to pause before they discipline, say, the fourth black student in a month. "How will this look to the feds?" they'll ask themselves. Will the student's family be able to sue us? A variety of solutions to the federally created problem will present themselves. School officials can search out offenses by white and Asian students to make the numbers come out right. Asian students are disciplined at rates far below any other ethnic group. Is this due to pro-Asian bias in our schools, or is it because Asians commit many fewer infractions? Oops, there we go into territory forbidden by the federal guidelines.

Another solution will be to ignore misbehavior by blacks and Hispanics. For classes with large numbers of minority students, this guarantees that the learning environment for the kids who actually want to learn will be impaired as teachers — reluctant to remove troublesome students — expend precious time on kids who are rude, threatening, loud or otherwise disruptive. Every minute of the school day taken up by bad kids is taken away from good kids. It's a true zero-sum game.

So the Obama administration's pursuit of group justice actually leads to injustice to individual students. Whites and Asians will be disciplined more than they merit it by their conduct, and fewer students of all groups will get the kind of classroom atmosphere that is conducive to learning. Even the students who get a pass on their bad conduct are disserved, as they will not have learned that disrespectful language, tardiness and even violence are unacceptable in society.

Everyone loses. Obama strikes again. Obama pursues a divide and conquer strategy and is praised for it by those that do not or else just can not see his motives.--Tyr