Middle school students say principal banned speaking Spanish.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, why not , after all this isn't Spain or is it? --Tyr Sorry, I forgot that we normal citizens should just roll over and play dead until we are actually replaced by non-whites illegals(soon to be made legal dem voters). That's the government agenda we should be asking where it comes from but the censorship on discussing globalists and their agenda reigns supreme .
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/middle-school-students-say-principal-banned-speaking-spanish-223543968.html

[cadet]

Well, why not , after all this isn't Spain or is it? --Tyr Sorry, I forgot that we normal citizens should just roll over and play dead until we are actually replaced by non-whites illegals(soon to be made legal dem voters). That's the government agenda we should be asking where it comes from but the censorship on discussing globalists and their agenda reigns supreme .

You might need to be reminded of a grade school lesson.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQl6XBo64M

[fj1200]

Well, why not , after all this isn't Spain or is it? --Tyr Sorry, I forgot that we normal citizens should just roll over and play dead until we are actually replaced by non-whites illegals(soon to be made legal dem voters). That's the government agenda we should be asking where it comes from but the censorship on discussing globalists and their agenda reigns supreme .

Huh?

[DragonStryk72]

Wow, Tyr, odd for you to come out directly against the First Amendment. Now before you pounce, listen: I do not support illegal immigration, never have, but this isn't about this. This is about a group of american citizens being told that they cannot speak their own language, and that is wrong.

Disrupting class is wrong, but it's wrong because of the lack or respect/rudeness factor, not the language used in doing so. For many of these kids, they're perfectly legal citizens, who are brought up in legal immigrant mexican households, meaning that the majority language spoken is Spanish. While students should certainly address their teachers in English unless otherwise specified by the teacher, banning all speech in school other than English is slap against an entire culture. I imagine that made Spanish class kind of weird after that...

[jimnyc]

I think they should do like many workplaces do. They should be allowed to speak as they wish on their own time, but once actively engaged in school activities, English only. I think avoiding disruptions as they said - in the class - is a good idea. Students don't have freedom of speech once inside a classroom and under the rules of a teacher and/or school rules. But I don't see any reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed to speak whatever language they care to on their own time, which is prior to and after school and during class breaks.

[gabosaurus]

But if they banned discussing religion, people would freak out and go crazy. :rolleyes:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Wow, Tyr, odd for you to come out directly against the First Amendment. Now before you pounce, listen: I do not support illegal immigration, never have, but this isn't about this. This is about a group of american citizens being told that they cannot speak their own language, and that is wrong.

Disrupting class is wrong, but it's wrong because of the lack or respect/rudeness factor, not the language used in doing so. For many of these kids, they're perfectly legal citizens, who are brought up in legal immigrant mexican households, meaning that the majority language spoken is Spanish. While students should certainly address their teachers in English unless otherwise specified by the teacher, banning all speech in school other than English is slap against an entire culture. I imagine that made Spanish class kind of weird after that... Certainly not going to pounce and you make a great point. I read Jim's post before returning to reply to yours and his reply pretty much mirrors what I was going to say. In class English only but own their own time and in private conversations during breaks they can speak Native tongue. SCHOOL IS FOR LEARNING AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS IN CLASS IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE THAT THE TEACHER DOES NOT KNOW. FIRST AMENDMENT STANDS. So does the 2nd Amendment and schools banning guns from classes and students hasn't made me pounce either. ;) As freedom of speech still doesn't allow vulgar language in school either. Protocol and school rules necessarily limit such to maintain order and safety. You are right, I wasn't directly against the First Amendment but did post this thread because a happy compromise seems to be what is needed. By the way my beautiful niece Rachel is half Mexican , my son Justin half Filipino. And my wife is teaching him Tagalog, Cebuano and Visayan.. I teach him Southern English complete with it's slang! :salute: My comment was also to point to government trying to do too much for majorities (illegals) while doing so much to destroy our own heritage and vilify whites. --Tyr

[jimnyc]

But if they banned discussing religion, people would freak out and go crazy. :rolleyes:

How much about Christianity were you taught in public schools out in Cali? I must live in a weird place out here on the East Coast, as even back in the 70's and 80's they didn't discuss religion in our classrooms.

Imagine if they actually banned any prayers in a classroom?

[tailfins]

How much about Christianity were you taught in public schools out in Cali? I must live in a weird place out here on the East Coast, as even back in the 70's and 80's they didn't discuss religion in our classrooms.

Imagine if they actually banned any prayers in a classroom?

Here in Rhode Island my sons classmates aren't even told what religion Roger Williams was.

[Kathianne]

In a school with over 50% Spanish speaking, many of whom Spanish is their first language, to prohibit students from falling back on Spanish would be wrong, IMO.

They've ID the principal, I'm quite sure she won't be returning to that school, if she's lucky they'll transfer her to another, as an administrator or teacher.

My guess is that 'everyone' is right here. Probably has been a massive fail on testing, especially in English/LA. Many of the teachers have likely been saying in meetings for years that the kids won't pick up English if Spanish is reinforced all the time. They certainly are correct in that observation. If the principal acted as accused, that was dumb.

Most of the parents are likely like the mother quoted in many articles, 'we want them to learn English, but it won't come overnight.' She's right too.

How much better it would have been to have an assembly/presentation at PTO/Parent-teacher conferences with parents to address the issue? A translator could have explained in Spanish why speaking English in class-to the best of the students abilities is necessary? Reiterate that the school encourages acceptance of all cultures and that the students are free to speak English/Spanish during their free times, but in order to facilitate fluency, the teachers need to have the children speak English as much as they can. Truth is, those that have little fluency in English are already being served in Spanish for academics in ELL classes. If the student is in regular classroom, without support, at minimum they understand oral/written English, though their ability to speak English only may not be developed because of word choices, i.e., they understand words in context, but their workable oral vocabulary is limited. For them to 'fall back' on Spanish to explain more complex concepts is not wrong, indeed it is evidence of learning and the desire to communicate high order learning.

[gabosaurus]

When my sister's former charge moved here from Colombia, she didn't speak any English. That is why the family placed her with my sister and her husband in East Los Angeles. A lot of kids learn English through immersion. You hinder their development by not allowing a transition to take place.
You want to kids to get guaranteed job placement? Make them bilingual. In many jobs in Southern California, positions often go wanting for bilingual employees.
Or you can continue to be a thick headed redneck and complain that there aren't enough jobs.

[DragonStryk72]

Certainly not going to pounce and you make a great point. I read Jim's post before returning to reply to yours and his reply pretty much mirrors what I was going to say. In class English only but own their own time and in private conversations during breaks they can speak Native tongue. SCHOOL IS FOR LEARNING AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS IN CLASS IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE THAT THE TEACHER DOES NOT KNOW. FIRST AMENDMENT STANDS. So does the 2nd Amendment and schools banning guns from classes and students hasn't made me pounce either. ;) As freedom of speech still doesn't allow vulgar language in school either. Protocol and school rules necessarily limit such to maintain order and safety. You are right, I wasn't directly against the First Amendment but did post this thread because a happy compromise seems to be what is needed. By the way my beautiful niece Rachel is half Mexican , my son Justin half Filipino. And my wife is teaching him Tagalog, Cebuano and Visayan.. I teach him Southern English complete with it's slang! :salute: My comment was also to point to government trying to do too much for majorities (illegals) while doing so much to destroy our own heritage and vilify whites. --Tyr

As long as class isn't being disrupted, I don't see the issue of them speaking their first language. School is also for learning socially, and part of our society of immigrants (All except the Native Americans) is that of coming across different cultures and languages. Heck, that's why we have a foreign language requirement in schools. Learning how to interact with those who do not share a language with you is part of learning as well. I've known a number of people who never took Spanish in school, but who picked it up listening to classmates who spoke it regularly.

Then you have some of the kids in these schools who aren't as capable with English, Spanish being their main language for the majority of their lives, because maybe their parents came over later, and didn't learn English all that well themselves. Handicapping the kids because the teacher is in a school that borders Mexico, and didn't bother with learning some basic Spanish is more than a little asinine. If I'm going to teach in Ireland, I pick up a book on Irish Gaelic, if I'm going to teach in Hawaii, I pick up a Rosetta stone for Samoan, so that I can better connect with those of my students that have a different language.

If they are having issues with English, then slapping the whole school for it is both unnecessary, and thanks to the contrary nature of tweens, completely counter-productive. They need to have a conversation with the English and Spanish teachers to see about setting up extra ESL classes for students that are doing poorly, set up tutoring, etc.. What you don't do is tell a bunch tweens that they can't do something.

[Kathianne]

As long as class isn't being disrupted, I don't see the issue of them speaking their first language. School is also for learning socially, and part of our society of immigrants (All except the Native Americans) is that of coming across different cultures and languages. Heck, that's why we have a foreign language requirement in schools. Learning how to interact with those who do not share a language with you is part of learning as well. I've known a number of people who never took Spanish in school, but who picked it up listening to classmates who spoke it regularly.

Then you have some of the kids in these schools who aren't as capable with English, Spanish being their main language for the majority of their lives, because maybe their parents came over later, and didn't learn English all that well themselves. Handicapping the kids because the teacher is in a school that borders Mexico, and didn't bother with learning some basic Spanish is more than a little asinine. If I'm going to teach in Ireland, I pick up a book on Irish Gaelic, if I'm going to teach in Hawaii, I pick up a Rosetta stone for Samoan, so that I can better connect with those of my students that have a different language.

If they are having issues with English, then slapping the whole school for it is both unnecessary, and thanks to the contrary nature of tweens, completely counter-productive. They need to have a conversation with the English and Spanish teachers to see about setting up extra ESL classes for students that are doing poorly, set up tutoring, etc.. What you don't do is tell a bunch tweens that they can't do something.

What you posted makes a certain amount of sense, regarding social issues. The problems you fail to acknowledge are the academic and economic ones. In order to succeed in the US, one needs command of English. The Mexican mother acknowledged that. There's no escaping that, without English speaking capability the students will be forced into occupations-legal or illegal, that don't require English. That is not 'thriving.'

I'm deaf. With hearing aids I can usually pick up what is being said by piecing what I can hear and what prior knowledge I hold. (In educationese, that's called scaffolding). Without hearing aids, I cannot garner enough to have a clue-thus come off as stupid, ignorant, and due to my years, old. Too old to keep living.

Those kids need to learn how to speak English, just like I really need my hearing aids. ;)

For none of us is the road easy, for those kids the principal chose the wrong audience and the wrong venue. (The message should have been driven towards the parents-in the language they could understand. Then perhaps the parents could explain/demand that the kids need to speak English and learn grammar in class. The teachers should also understand that those same kids if engaged, might only find their voice at times in Spanish. The teacher can either understand the Spanish or have another student translate, then provide the student in question with the English words. The ESL student then could write the words down in the 'vocabulary' notebook.

No humilation, win-win for all.