Queer Foundation

[jimnyc]

I often get chastised for using the term queer in my posts when referring to homosexuals. I've always said that it's fine, since they use the term non-stop, and not in the manner that the N word is used. Gay people use this term not in a derogatory manner, but just a regular way of defining, and often in terms of being cool, or nice, with one another. It's also often used in chants, names of bars and many other things in daily usage.

This site - http://queerfoundation.org/ - is another one of those groups. I first heard of them from one of their NY branches, and that they were trying to get information out there about the upcoming olympics and trying to get people to boycott various companies involved.

But why choose the queer word in their name? Are they trying to be less than serious? Is this similar to if a serious group of black folks, looking to be taken seriously and want to spread information, would use a site like niggerfoundation?

Back to my point... I find it funny that a gay person, or supporter, would condemn me for using the term when its such a huge part of today's vocabulary, and more so from the gay community themselves.

[jafar00]

I use the term "big poofta" or "Queen laPoofa" with gay colleagues, but that's just them. Others I know of I address by their names.

[Abbey Marie]

There was also the show, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

I do not have much respect for this "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

[Arbo]

I fully stand against the whole PC thing. And people are free to use whatever words they want, but that doesn't mean freedom from repercussions or judgements based on words used.

When someone has a history of being against gays, and expressing negative thoughts about them, the use of the word is clearly not used in a positive or neutral manner. Same way it works with the N-bomb. Even more so when words are written (as in a forum) and you can not see intent via body language or facial expression.

[jimnyc]

I fully stand against the whole PC thing. And people are free to use whatever words they want, but that doesn't mean freedom from repercussions or judgements based on words used.

When someone has a history of being against gays, and expressing negative thoughts about them, the use of the word is clearly not used in a positive or neutral manner. Same way it works with the N-bomb. Even more so when words are written (as in a forum) and you can not see intent via body language or facial expression.

So we now have certain words in the US language that can only be used in a positive manner, or in a manner that is supportive? People can judge me all they like. They will see that I am not in favor of homosexuality nor gay marriage, and that I call them the same name they continually refer to themselves as, queers. Is it ok to use the term "gay", if done so by someone having a history of being against gays, expresses negative thoughts about them and such?

Other than that, I understand that some will judge me for being against homosexuality, or against gay marriage, and for using the term queer. They are welcome to judge me for the words I use. I wouldn't state them if I weren't willing to accept that judgment. I honestly couldn't care. I just like to point out the hypocrisy and dumb standards some have that only certain people are allowed to use a word.

I guess that means I have an "irrational fear" of queers! :laugh:

[Arbo]

So we now have certain words in the US language that can only be used in a positive manner, or in a manner that is supportive?

No doubt according to someone out there that is the case, but I never said anything close to that.


I call them the same name they continually refer to themselves as, queers.

Do you call black people N-bombs?


I just like to point out the hypocrisy and dumb standards some have that only certain people are allowed to use a word.

I agree with you on this one. All should be able to use whatever words they want, but like you they should be willing to deal with the judgement that comes from others (if at all).

[jimnyc]

No doubt according to someone out there that is the case, but I never said anything close to that.



Do you call black people N-bombs?



I agree with you on this one. All should be able to use whatever words they want, but like you they should be willing to deal with the judgement that comes from others (if at all).

Black folks aren't out there championing the word like queers do. And I wouldn't hesitate to use the word on here, and have before. I am not running around town looking for gay people to call queers, so not sure why you would expect me to do anything like that with black people. But if a large portion of any group refers to themselves in a certain manner, then I won't fear calling them the same thing.

Back to the group I pointed out. And there are TONS of them using that to label themselves, and more than that referring to themselves as such. If they are offended by someone calling them that in ANY manner, then they shouldn't be freely using the term to describe themselves. Kinda dumb to propagate a name that would perhaps annoy/insult them.

IMO, the term queer is similar to gay. Gay was meant to be happy and slowly adopted a second meaning. Queer was supposed to be 'strange'. The homosexual community adopted this word a LONG, LONG time ago. It was part of their own description when I was growing up, and still today. When I was a kid we referred to them as such and it wasn't meant to necessarily be insulting as much as it was a reference to a gay person. I say whatever comes off of my lips. No way I'm sitting back and monitoring my own vocabulary to appease people who use the same word themselves.

[Arbo]

But if a large portion of any group refers to themselves in a certain manner, then I won't fear calling them the same thing.

I highly doubt ANY white person would drop the n-bomb on a group of black guys they don't know. Not if they were sane. ;)


If they are offended by someone calling them that in ANY manner, then they shouldn't be freely using the term to describe themselves. Kinda dumb to propagate a name that would perhaps annoy/insult them.

I agree.

[Jeff]

I highly doubt ANY white person would drop the n-bomb on a group of black guys they don't know. Not if they were sane. ;)

Wow is life that scary for ya ? :laugh:


I agree.

Seriously words are just words and when calling anyone what they call themselves shouldn't hurt and in all seriousness Arbo dropping the "N" Bomb on certain crowds wouldn't be a good idea but to most blacks ( I have run across anyway ) it is all how the word is used, if you walk up to them and smile and cut up as you kid with them most wont get offended , it is all how you present things ( but as I said, to some it doesn't matter what ya do they will find a reason to get angry those are the ones that voted for no other reason than skin color )

[Arbo]

Ugh, my reply was one that was lost. Anyway, I find it hard to believe anyone thinks they can just act 'cool' or as if they are 'joking around' with a group of black guys and throw the N-bomb at them and it will all just be cool. If it is between two friends and you both know each other is goofing off, that's one thing, but the situation mentioned is far from two friends that know each other.

I lived in downtown baltimore for many years, I've been many places most white people wouldn't dare go, I have always been fine... had I ever called someone black an n-bomb, that would have been different.

[gabosaurus]

I seem to recall posting in this thread earlier. I wonder what happened to it. :eek:

[jimnyc]

I seem to recall posting in this thread earlier. I wonder what happened to it. :eek:

You should read the announcements section.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43859-Board-running-slowly&p=674309#post674309

[tailfins]

So the isn't a thread about a strange box spring (the kind that goes under a mattress)?

[Jeff]

Ugh, my reply was one that was lost. Anyway, I find it hard to believe anyone thinks they can just act 'cool' or as if they are 'joking around' with a group of black guys and throw the N-bomb at them and it will all just be cool. If it is between two friends and you both know each other is goofing off, that's one thing, but the situation mentioned is far from two friends that know each other.

I lived in downtown baltimore for many years, I've been many places most white people wouldn't dare go, I have always been fine... had I ever called someone black an n-bomb, that would have been different.

Arbo so you lived on the mean streets of Baltimore huh :laugh: I use to sleep on the side of the road ( waiting for the customer to open ) in that and many other cities ( as I had stated ) and also as I have stated you can easily tell the difference between a hostile group of guys or those just hanging partying ( honestly I do believe you may not be able to tell Hence the having to be scared shitless of your surrounding ) and again I will say no you can't walk up to any group and drop the "N" bomb but yes you can tell the difference between a group of guys looking for trouble and a group of guys that couldn't give a dang what you have to say and yes I have dropped the "N" bomb many times in many different places and I am still here :laugh:

You know thinking that all blacks are so ignorant that they would immediately get offended by a word shows a bit of fear and at least the same amount of racism , But I do agree with you to a point Arbo I just don't believe in this day and age most even worry about such trivial B.S. , with that said yes there will always be some looking for trouble ( and they will find trouble whether you call them a name or are just alone in there part of the woods ) so for myself I will walk into ( and out of ) that scenario saying or doing anything I please.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Arbo so you lived on the mean streets of Baltimore huh :laugh: I use to sleep on the side of the road ( waiting for the customer to open ) in that and many other cities ( as I had stated ) and also as I have stated you can easily tell the difference between a hostile group of guys or those just hanging partying ( honestly I do believe you may not be able to tell Hence the having to be scared shitless of your surrounding ) and again I will say no you can't walk up to any group and drop the "N" bomb but yes you can tell the difference between a group of guys looking for trouble and a group of guys that couldn't give a dang what you have to say and yes I have dropped the "N" bomb many times in many different places and I am still here :laugh:

You know thinking that all blacks are so ignorant that they would immediately get offended by a word shows a bit of fear and at least the same amount of racism , But I do agree with you to a point Arbo I just don't believe in this day and age most even worry about such trivial B.S. , with that said yes there will always be some looking for trouble ( and they will find trouble whether you call them a name or are just alone in there part of the woods ) so for myself I will walk into ( and out of ) that scenario saying or doing anything I please. I am sure you are like me Jeff in that we that have been around know. Those that have not haven't a damn clue. We can see it in their voting in a piece of scum like Obama and yes on sites like this we see it in their postings. Very few things teach as well as having actually had the experience(been there , done that). I do not socialize with blacks very much now because the young ones are as full of shat as a Christmas turkey. And most often the case even a black friend at work will treat ya like a stranger when you show up in his hood and he is around his friends. They tend to let their true feelings show when they have a large group to back them up. Whereas I say what I think regardless of who is present. A man speaks not from fear but from principle and let the chips fall were they may. --Tyr

[Jeff]

I am sure you are like me Jeff in that we that have been around know. Those that have not haven't a damn clue. We can see it in their voting in a piece of scum like Obama and yes on sites like this we see it in their postings. Very few things teach as well as having actually had the experience(been there , done that). I do not socialize with blacks very much now because the young ones are as full of shat as a Christmas turkey. And most often the case even a black friend at work will treat ya like a stranger when you show up in his hood and he is around his friends. They tend to let their true feelings show when they have a large group to back them up. Whereas I say what I think regardless of who is present. A man speaks not from fear but from principle and let the chips fall were they may. --Tyr

Tyr I say what ever comes up to who ever I am speaking to , I always have and always will and ya know it seems as though most respect that because there is no lie in it, and yes I have been there and done that many times :laugh: ( maybe too many times ) and yes it is very easy to see who has and who hasn't been in the real world, but I guess that is what makes the world go around ( ya have to have those that will and those that will hide :laugh:) as for me I will be me until I can't.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr I say what ever comes up to who ever I am speaking to , I always have and always will and ya know it seems as though most respect that because there is no lie in it, and yes I have been there and done that many times :laugh: ( maybe too many times ) and yes it is very easy to see who has and who hasn't been in the real world, but I guess that is what makes the world go around ( ya have to have those that will and those that will hide :laugh:) as for me I will be me until I can't. You and I both brother. Such frankness is both a great strength and a weakness. By and large its true those that are decent people will respect you for it and those not decent will despise you for it. That's been my entire life's experience and certainly was a factor in my many fights. I'll be 60 years old this coming March, too late to change now and besides I haven't the slightest inclination to even try to.- :laugh:--Tyr

[Arbo]

Arbo so you lived on the mean streets of Baltimore huh

The trolling in your post, yet again ignored…


I am sure

You are 'sure' of a lot of things, most of them have nothing to do with reality, and generally conform to the hostility and beliefs of Islamists.

[Jeff]

The trolling in your post, yet again ignored…



You are 'sure' of a lot of things, most of them have nothing to do with reality, and generally conform to the hostility and beliefs of Islamists.

Arbo ignored ?? looks to me like you aren't ignoring to well, furthermore being afraid in life may not be to bad I am not bashing it , it is just something I have never experienced

[Arbo]

Arbo ignored ?? looks to me like you aren't ignoring to well, furthermore being afraid in life may not be to bad I am not bashing it , it is just something I have never experienced

Again, you are merely trolling.

[Jeff]

Again, you are merely trolling.

Are you again ignoring me ? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Arbo]

Are you again ignoring me ? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Clearly I am not, just pointing out the reality of your trolling.

[Jeff]

Clearly I am not, just pointing out the reality of your trolling.

Ok thank you for clearing that up man I was getting worried :laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Ok thank you for clearing that up man I was getting worried :laugh: My, my what an interesting troll you are Jeff. And such an honest troll too. A trait as rare as hen's teeth with trolls. I'd say so rare that you are by any logical measure a solitary member on that list of honest trolls. Perhaps Jim should give you some kind of award for that or maybe a bottle of Jack. :beer: My Lord, sure never thought I'd ever meet a real life truthful troll. :laugh: I guess I have to admit to being honored for having found this out..- ;) --Tyr

[logroller]

Theres a difference between trolling and jabbing.posting something that may be received as a personal jab is one thing but within context it is different. If I just posted in response to jeff that all truckers are drug-adled and left it at that-- thats probably me trolling. In the context of a thread/post on dot drug laws it would be different.
But back to the topic, theres really no hard and fast standard forsuch things because its so subjective. It depends on the situation, who's involved, the intention of what was said etc. ive told friends and had friends tell me that we love one another-- like in a fraternal way-- usually the response is 'whatever queer/fag.' Of course this machismo may be off-putting to some; it being seen that queer is a pejorative in a sense but its underlying meaning between them is actually a heartfelt expression of love.

Thats not to say that two guys cant love one another in a brotherly way without being seen as homo, but it is a bit queer (odd) to go about telling one another that. Thats just a cultural reality in our society. That doesn't mean that friends shouldn't love one another, only that how they express that love is subject to the cultural roles a society places upon them.

Its no easy task to breakdown such roles without the risk of promoting them but it is reasonably acceptable to dilute the negative implications of such words. Nigger isn't a word i personally use but i can see how some may use it to breakdown its negative meaning-- but far more often i see it used only to promote the same ignorance from which its origins lie. Gay and queer, however have far more benign origins so to me the risk of promotion is of lesser concern. I suppose if someone was using the term niggardly it would be the same thing, but not so with nigger imo.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

My, my what an interesting troll you are Jeff. And such an honest troll too. A trait as rare as hen's teeth with trolls. I'd say so rare that you are by any logical measure a solitary member on that list of honest trolls. Perhaps Jim should give you some kind of award for that or maybe a bottle of Jack. :beer: My Lord, sure never thought I'd ever meet a real life truthful troll. :laugh: I guess I have to admit to being honored for having found this out..- ;) --Tyr Just in case some may have missed it this previous post was sarcasm . Of course Jeff is no troll and in fact a good guy with "his head screwed on straight" as my old Marine buddy used to say. I just had to jab him a bit after seeing he was so falsely accused of being a troll. :laugh2:-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Theres a difference between trolling and jabbing.posting something that may be received as a personal jab is one thing but within context it is different. If I just posted in response to jeff that all truckers are drug-adled and left it at that-- thats probably me trolling. In the context of a thread/post on dot drug laws it would be different.
But back to the topic, theres really no hard and fast standard forsuch things because its so subjective. It depends on the situation, who's involved, the intention of what was said etc. ive told friends and had friends tell me that we love one another-- like in a fraternal way-- usually the response is 'whatever queer/fag.' Of course this machismo may be off-putting to some; it being seen that queer is a pejorative in a sense but its underlying meaning between them is actually a heartfelt expression of love.

Thats not to say that two guys cant love one another in a brotherly way without being seen as homo, but it is a bit queer (odd) to go about telling one another that. Thats just a cultural reality in our society. That doesn't mean that friends shouldn't love one another, only that how they express that love is subject to the cultural roles a society places upon them.

Its no easy task to breakdown such roles without the risk of promoting them but it is reasonably acceptable to dilute the negative implications of such words. Nigger isn't a word i personally use but i can see how some may use it to breakdown its negative meaning-- but far more often i see it used only to promote the same ignorance from which its origins lie. Gay and queer, however have far more benign origins so to me the risk of promotion is of lesser concern. I suppose if someone was using the term niggardly it would be the same thing, but not so with nigger imo. Down here (South)when blacks say the word --nigger- it can be in the positive or in the negative. When its in the negative you know it when hearing it and its usually delivered to a black guy that is pure scum as noted by the other black guy saying it to him. Its not done casually and in my experience its usually spot on as a judgment. Years ago one of my black co-workers told me this-- nobody can spot a "nigger" faster than a black man. He then explained it like this, "we decent black guys spot them and try to have as little as possible to do with them." I replied, "well we whites apply that logic and judgment to white punks too. A lowlife poor excuse for a man isn't just about skin color." This was about 27 years ago and we have come a long way since then but that logic is sound IMHO. A DECENT MAN IS A DECENT MAN REGARDLESS OF SKIN COLOR AND SHOUD BE GIVEN THE PROPER RESPECT.. The true character and morals of a person is what's to be judged IMHO ---NOT FORTUNE, FAME OR RACE.. Sexual perversion (GAY) is an entirely different story AND SHOULD NOT BE LUMPED IN WITH A RACE ISSUE IMHO. -Tyr