Military March on Washinton 1932

[Larrymc]

This is shocking i have heard a lot about the depression, but i had never heard this story, This is interesting considering what we seen recently in Washinton, The disrespect for our Vets had been reconciled, until this Administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sN... (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sNOsIB5VMSQ)

[Trigg]

This is shocking i have heard a lot about the depression, but i had never heard this story, This is interesting considering what we seen recently in Washinton, The disrespect for our Vets had been reconciled, until this Administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sN... (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sNOsIB5VMSQ)


I have never heard of this, powerful footage

[CSM]

I have known of this since I was a child as it was recounted to me by my grandfather. Now you all know what would happen if Obama ordered the troops into action against the US citizen. They would follow the orders of the CinC. I find it ironic that the "great heroes" of WWII were the ones that led the troops against the veterans; MacArthur, Eisenhower, Patton and more. It is even more despicable that Patton refused to even meet with the vet that saved his life on the battlefield. Soldiers may have little respect for their leaders but most will do as ordered. So the use of the US military with all their modern weaponry (tanks against unarmed citizens? you betcha!) is not unprecedented. I am sure this incident gives great comfort to many a lib these days. In addition, the honorable Congressmen of the day bravely faced the men they denied the promised bonuses ... oh wait .... they really skulked away like the cowards they proved to be. Veterans may be the greatest fear harbored by the likes of Pelosi because the next time, the vets may not quietly submit to such actions. I know this one will not.

[aboutime]

Everyone should first remember this: http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm

And, keep in mind. Obama, with Holder. May both attempt to overrule this.

However. As a veteran, and the father of veterans.

I have confidence. NO AMERICAN in uniform would Obey any Order that is Illegal.

[Arbo]

This is shocking i have heard a lot about the depression, but i had never heard this story, This is interesting considering what we seen recently in Washinton, The disrespect for our Vets had been reconciled, until this Administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sN... (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sNOsIB5VMSQ)

A disgraceful time in the history of America. And yet many think such a thing could never happen… the fools.


I have confidence. NO AMERICAN in uniform would Obey any Order that is Illegal.

I'm pretty sure the WWI vets had the same confidence prior to this event.

[revelarts]

Everyone should first remember this: http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
And, keep in mind. Obama, with Holder. May both attempt to overrule this.
However. As a veteran, and the father of veterans.
I have confidence. NO AMERICAN in uniform would Obey any Order that is Illegal.
like Waco?

Like the constitution the Posse comitatus act has ALREADY been rip to shreads.
Bush and friends in congress Null and voided it with a series of acts and laws... for your safety "911!!!"

the john warner defense authorization act being one of the 1st major blows.
then Bush taking the final authority of the national guards away from Governors and putting it in the hands of the president. (over the Governors protest BTW).
there are many other bit and pieces.
Including "northcom" which gave the military a war tried brigade in the U.S..
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?35952-Military-training-in-streets-of-America-forrrr&p=565190#post565190

Presidential directives that say the CiC can call the Military in what he deems and "emergency"

the NDAA which says anyone the Prez or the Mil "suspect" or claim are terrorist can be detained indefinitely.
anywhere in the world. Before you detain you have to capture. right?
so it's a legal order. right.
When congress the FBI chief (or was it justice dept) was asked if its' ok for the prez to authorize the killing of an american citizen in the U.S. without a trial he said "uhhh welll uuhhh"....

and the latest i'm aware of being a Pentagon written authorization saying that some times, in an emergency, the military has to act .. in the U.S. even if the president hasn't said so.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40864-Pentagon-Unilaterally-Grants-Itself-Authority-Over-%91Civil-Disturbances%92&highlight=comitatus


When all the torture talk was going on people keep telling me it wasn't "illegal"
More than a few people here are ready to just justify any action the military or the president does if they agree with the goal. legal or not.

But , If the President or the Military does it then that means it's not illegal.

It's pretty clear that the military deployment to Libya was an Illegal order. unauthorized by congress and not for an emergency. But the Military follow those illegal orders without a blink.

I hope the Oath Keepers groups grows.
Cause the deck is stacked against the public. the onlything we've got left is the a military that will THINK about what they are ordered to do. and obey the oath to the Highest law in the land. because most of the other have been changed.

[revelarts]

old thread

"
To those calling for a civil war, this Marine says military will destroy you "

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?27140-To-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-Marine-says-military-will-destroy-you&highlight=comitatus
http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.c...p=0#discussion (http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/26/4073188-an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-marine-wants-you-to-stop-and-think?pc=25&sp=0#discussion)
"Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone. ~snip"



........
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?33487-Bill-Would-Allow-Detention-US-Citizens-Indefinitely&p=507399#post507399

...2006: On the Eve of the Midterm Elections (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._congressional_elections_in_20 06), PCA Nullified

Recently, Congress passed a controversial bill which grants the President the right to commandeer Federal or even state National Guard Troops and use them inside the United States. This bill, entitled the John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Warner_Defense_Appropriation_ Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2007) (H.R. 5122.ENR), contains a provision, (Section 1076) which allows the President to:
“...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to...



restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States..., where the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order;
suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy...” [3] (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.05122:)


Senator Patrick Leahy (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_Leahy) and others have condemned Section 1076 because it effectively nullifies the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. 331-335) and gives the President the legal ability to define under what conditions martial law (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Martial_law) may be declared. [4] (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SMI20061107&articleId=3749)
H.R.5122 was signed into law by President Bush on October 17, 2006, and will take effect October 1, 2007 (unless an earlier effective date is established by regulation). "On the same day, Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006), which abolishes the legal protection of habeas corpus, authorizes the president to detain and jail anyone (even US citizens) without charge and subject them to harsh interrogation that may or may not involve torture." [5] (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SMI20061107&articleId=3749)...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php..._Comitatus_Act (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Posse_Comitatus_Act)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

old thread

"
To those calling for a civil war, this Marine says military will destroy you "

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?27140-To-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-Marine-says-military-will-destroy-you&highlight=comitatus
http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.c...p=0#discussion (http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/26/4073188-an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-marine-wants-you-to-stop-and-think?pc=25&sp=0#discussion)
"Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone. ~snip"



http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php..._Comitatus_Act (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Posse_Comitatus_Act) Perhaps some of us will have to tell that ffed up Marine that the GD federal government at any given time is not the Constitution and if he wants to fight with a Constitution destroying government THE REAL PATRIOTS would have no problem offing his damn dumbass too! Or he could unwrap his ffing jarhead and join the side that truly defends the Constitution , his choice but no time for pity for fools or morons. Give me his damn email address and I'll tell his stupid ass just how the cow eats the cabbage!! -Tyr by the way I've talked to many military that see it just the way I just presented it. So one stupid LIBERAL OR DEMOCRAT Marine spouting stupidity doesn't mean a thing IMHO.

[revelarts]

Perhaps some of us will have to tell that ffed up Marine that the GD federal government at any given time is not the Constitution and if he wants to fight with a Constitution destroying government we would have no problem offing his damn dumbass too! Or he could unwrap his ffing jarhead and join the side that truly defends the Constitution , his choice but no time for pity for fools or morons. Give me his damn email address and I'll tell his stupid ass just how the cow eats the cabbage!! -Tyr

when this came out Sassy found this Follow up:

Here's his latest:

A rewrite of a Marine's call for peace and pause that had been reduced into sheer irrelevance....and an apology.
News Type: Opinion — Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:04 PM EDT.us-news, military, peace, us-government
By Sgt C USMC
advertisement

(I want to apologize to all of you who posted your thoughts and feelings regarding the prior article - I de-published the article to rewrite it to this, and it will not re-publish. I understand many people put a lot of effort into those comments, as I put a lot of effort into my replies. If any of the Newsvine community can tell me how I can get the comments back , I will gladly do so. My biggest apology is for my failure as a moderator. I should have done a better part to keep the conversation to the topic at hand and avoid responding to derailing comments.)

This is intended to be a rewrite of the article that was written - because some people obviously DON'T get it.

The article I wrote yesterday was intended to be a call for peace, and a moment for pause. In all honesty, it was merely my venting after reading dozens of headlines regarding the type of violence in the US that I was more accustomed to seeing on the daily intel briefing sheets while in theater. I never expected the response I got, and I must admit while some of the comments that I received were some of the greatest thoughts and words I've ever seen - some were words I'd hope no human being would never utter to another. My family and myself were threatened, if for no other reason than because my opinions differed from someone else's. Obviously, the intent of my message was convoluted and lost. This is an attempt to correct it.

Every service member has sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. There's no grey area to that. It's as black and white as it gets.

I nor any service member wants to combat civilians in this or any other country. I don't know how many times I can reiterate that - we do not want it to happen. Even as we prepare for war, we pray for peace.

We lace up our boots every morning in an attempt to preserve the freedoms that democracy has awarded us. We all love our country, and we would give our lives to protect it and its way of life.

Military members must have faith in the system of Government, or the whole chain of command and system of military discipline falls apart. We are rarely given all of the details of our entire mission, and instead are expected to complete seemingly ambiguous tasks in support of that mission with the belief that we are doing the right thing . When we find an order illegal , we're obligated not to follow it, and report it.

So call me naive, but yes. I do have faith in the Constitution and the mechanisms inside of it to correct itself and removing people unworthy of holding office. If I didn't , I never would've taken an oath to defend it. You just can't defend part of the Constitution, or the parts you agree with. It's all or nothing. I choose to defend all of it ,even the parts I may disagree with.

Probably the most foolish choice of words I chose to use in that article were the words 'civil war' . I just shouldn't have written them. But I could think of no other way to articulate what I felt it would require for the military to become involved. A civilian uprising wouldn't be sufficient, it would require an all out civil war.

Much of the comments reflected on this poor choice of words - and successfully derailed the conversation from a call for peace and to use the democratic system to resolve our differences, to people arguing over who's side would destroy who. I'll admit, I too was guilty in that regard - and my attempt to compare military and civilian life easily came across as boisterous and hostile, even though its' intent was to be succinct and concise. For that, I apologize.

BUT DON'T YOU @!$%#ING GET IT?!? In a war, no one wins. Even if you're not wounded, it doesn't mean you leave whole. The images, the feelings, the thoughts never leave you, they're forever etched into your mind, and they become a part of who you are. It's been said that "the people who die in war are the lucky ones - they don't have to live with the memories of what transpired." As morbid as it sounds, in many cases its true.

And to what end ? What would be left AFTER this 'war' was concluded ? Would anything really change ? Or would we slowly sink back into the quagmire of the status quo, resort back to what's comfortable, and then future generations will be arguing over the very reasoning behind this conflict , just as we now debate the real reason behind the civil war ? What would our children, and their children say when they look back at this point in our history ? Seriously, what does anyone expect to gain from fighting their friends, family, neighbors over a difference of opinion ? That's what this really boils down to - people are screaming for blood because they feel differently than someone else.

If that's not the definition of madness, I don't know what is. It needs to stop. Now.

The senatorial elections are coming in November 2010. Everyone who feels passionately about this country , one way or the other, should get out and vote for who THEY think will best represent them . The same in November of 2012. This is your Constitutional right - this is your step in democracy. You get to choose who represents you and your views in the Government.

If you choose to vote using force instead, not only will you fail in your attempt, but your cause will suffer on account of your actions. You will hurt not only yourself, but also every individual who ever aligns with that cause in the future. Consider that when you're making your decision - our causes are not typically portrayed by our most noble or thoughtful members, but rather the most crude and thoughtless. They forever taint what might otherwise be a worthwhile message.

So once again, I , an NCO of Marines, call on all people both military and civilian to exercise your Constitutional rights and participate in the democratic process. I urge you to stop reacting, and start instead thinking and considering. I urge you not to immediately dismiss opinions other than your own.

I urge you to open your minds and consider that maybe, just maybe, there's not a single one of us who has all of the answers, and that includes myself.

In short, I urge all of you - to treat everyone else as you would want to be treated, whether you agree with them or not.


http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.c...and-an-apology (http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/27/4080107-a-rewrite-of-a-marines-call-for-peace-and-pause-that-had-been-reduced-into-sheer-irrelevanceand-an-apology)


I strongly with part of that.
that a civil war or violent revolution would be bad.

my take on it is that ONLY SOLDIERS and Constitution loving citizens would get killed.
the players that made the mess we live in would still be in place or hiding in the wings for the dust to settle to re-take power with whatever words that sounded good at the time. the moneyed-powers and the political elites would basically not be touched. And the population would we ASKING for gov't assistance and then we're back on the train.
wasn't there a scene in the movie gangs of New York
where the political bosses came out after the big riot/brawl and looked over the dead bodies and say something like
"tsk tsk Thats a waste, we lost a lot of fine votes here"

[Arbo]

I understood what he was saying in the first one, the second just seems to clarify for those with blinders. And of course he received threats for voicing his views, you can see the visceral reaction in this thread alone. Even more interesting considering he is a vet and it's veterans day.

[Larrymc]

Did i see, A So called Marine on here Threatening to attack civilians, i click on the links, it had been taken down, I clicked to reply it was gone?? Or has someone been band??

[revelarts]

Did i see, A So called Marine on here Threatening to attack civilians, i click on the links, it had been taken down, I clicked to reply it was gone?? Or has someone been band??

the original newsvine post are gone, but portions of the 1st post and all of the 2nd were copied here on DP in the thread i linked back too.
Not sure the details of the newsvine take downs. the 1st was voluntary the 2nd i don't know.