OK Go ahead and drool

[WiccanLiberal]

Made the big breakfast this Am. Bacon, eggs and pancakes. Made mine with cinnamon. Satisfying. We may end up in a food coma. Just part of my plot really. Gotta get V4R to yake the last A/C out of the bedroom window before we get a cold snap tonight.

[Jeff]

Made the big breakfast this Am. Bacon, eggs and pancakes. Made mine with cinnamon. Satisfying. We may end up in a food coma. Just part of my plot really. Gotta get V4R to yake the last A/C out of the bedroom window before we get a cold snap tonight.

We got our cold snap last night and I wasn't expecting it :laugh: I woke up this morning and it was 40 degrees outside and 66 in the house man I didn't want to get out of the bed .

[cadet]

It's my sisters birthday, so Nukeman is making biscuits and gravy this morning.

[gabosaurus]

It's my sisters birthday, so Nukeman is making biscuits and gravy this morning.

A man who can make biscuits and gravy? Mrs. Nukeman obviously made a good catch. Does he do windows?

[tailfins]

A man who can make biscuits and gravy? Mrs. Nukeman obviously made a good catch. Does he do windows?

What's this fetish you have with men doing minimum wage tasks? I even cringe at women that earn six figures doing minimum wage tasks. You must really hate men! The only exception I can think of was my Dad who made his own sometimes because he thought my Mom was too "clean" to make REAL depression-era biscuits and gravy with bacon grease runoff mixed with sausage grease runoff and flour. I thought they both made good biscuits and gravy. But sometimes my Dad just had to have them vagrant-style.

My parents were funny that way. My Mom cringed at anything that reminded her of the depression, my Dad though of it as the "good old days".

[gabosaurus]

My husband makes well in excess of six figures and he is not too proud to take out the garbage, pick up after himself and even clear off the table and help clean the kitchen. Then again, my husband did not obtain his spouse off a Brazilian "girls for sale" web site. Tailfins, you obviously have a screw loose to think like you do.

[tailfins]

My husband makes well in excess of six figures and he is not too proud to take out the garbage, pick up after himself and even clear off the table and help clean the kitchen. Then again, my husband did not obtain his spouse off a Brazilian "girls for sale" web site. Tailfins, you obviously have a screw loose to think like you do.

More than a few people here think you're missing most of your screws. If you want to call being focused having a screw loose, that's on you. This may surprise you, but some females aspire to be a housewife. They are the ones that don't bother studying in school. In Brazil, they are passed along with our equivalent of a "gentleman's D" grade. A "gentleman's D" is a gift to a friendly failing student if you're not familiar with the term.

[Trigg]

A man who can make biscuits and gravy? Mrs. Nukeman obviously made a good catch. Does he do windows?

He's pretty good in the kitchen, sadly he only does windows if I nag him lol.

[Trigg]

What's this fetish you have with men doing minimum wage tasks? I even cringe at women that earn six figures doing minimum wage tasks. You must really hate men! The only exception I can think of was my Dad who made his own sometimes because he thought my Mom was too "clean" to make REAL depression-era biscuits and gravy with bacon grease runoff mixed with sausage grease runoff and flour. I thought they both made good biscuits and gravy. But sometimes my Dad just had to have them vagrant-style.

My parents were funny that way. My Mom cringed at anything that reminded her of the depression, my Dad though of it as the "good old days".


A man cooking for his family isn't a "minimum wage job", it's called helping out around the house.

which is greatly appreciated by me and most other women.

Most women, even those making 6 figures, come home after work and do the dishes and wash the clothes. It's part of running a household. The same is true of men who come home and cut the grass. There is nothing degrading about it.

[Jeff]

A man cooking for his family isn't a "minimum wage job", it's called helping out around the house.

which is greatly appreciated by me and most other women.
.

I call it fun, the boys and I like to cook breakfast on the weekend when and if we can find time now a days , it seems like we have to run here or there all the time but doing things together on a special day or even just a sit around and have fun kind of day is nice .

[Arbo]

A man cooking for his family isn't a "minimum wage job", it's called helping out around the house.

which is greatly appreciated by me and most other women.

Most women, even those making 6 figures, come home after work and do the dishes and wash the clothes. It's part of running a household. The same is true of men who come home and cut the grass. There is nothing degrading about it.

Right on. It take a misogynist to think that actually taking part in helping out in the house (for a man) is somehow below them. It is unfortunate that such dinosaurs still exist.

[WiccanLiberal]

Interesting twist here. My father taught me some valuable lessons. He was raised as an old school kind of guy but I think, as for many of his generation, WWII was a game changer. He and my mother raised three girls. My mother was, from the beginning, a less than effective parent, for a variety of reasons I am still coming to terms with. He made sure we were self reliant. It was his belief that all kids should learn how to deal with life. We knew how to do cleaning, laundry, cooking as well as changing a tire, adding fluids to a car and doing simple household repairs. None of us is afraid to tackle a new task and we know how to research the best way to do it. Male or female you should never count on someone else to always do a task. You should be able to fix a meal, keep your place clean, your clothes mended and laundered. An extreme dichotomy in the allotment of household tasks is a recipe for disaster. If one partner becomes unable to perform their role, even temporarily, the other is at a complete loss. In our home, I make the majority of the money, due to the nature of a professional career. When I am home, as on vacation these two weeks, I delight in just doing the day to day stuff. When I am working all the time, it makes more sense for V4R to do at least some of the cooking and clean up. He often takes an evening and does the laundry. But when he is making stuff for his new ventures or gets called out for a good day's work, I know he can't do as much. The result is a flexible kind of sharing. It works for us.

[tailfins]

Right on. It take a misogynist to think that actually taking part in helping out in the house (for a man) is somehow below them. It is unfortunate that such dinosaurs still exist.


It's beneath a woman as well if she earns six figures AND doesn't have elementary age or younger kids. Kids without a mom at home grow up to have a rough personality.

[Abbey Marie]

Help me to understand this magic dividing line of "six figures". Does it make more sense for someone who earns $90,000 to "help" with household chores? Should someone who is physically worn out because he has dug graves all day but makes only $25,000 per year, be expected to do more around the house? What about the man or woman who works two jobs to make ends meet, but doesn't earn all that much- should he or she help more than the six-figure coder?

I am always struck by the entire concept that someone who maintains their own home and lifestyle with their spouse is "helping". We both live in our home, we both benefit from it being clean and having meals, etc. My own six-figure husband feels much the same way WL describes above. And he would never claim special no-cleaning status because of the level of his earnings. Perhaps the difference is that for most of our married life, I've had a professional career of my own, so I know the stresses of a job, too. Btw, if my husband has to read up on the latest technology, of course he can. But he doesn't use that as an excuse to do nothing else at home.

[tailfins]

Help me to understand this magic dividing line of "six figures". Does it make more sense for someone who earns $90,000 to "help" with household chores? Should someone who is physically worn out because he has dug graves all day but makes only $25,000 per year, be expected to do more around the house? What about the man or woman who works two jobs to make ends meet, but doesn't earn all that much- should he or she help more than the six-figure coder?

I am always struck by the entire concept that someone who maintains their own home and lifestyle with their spouse is "helping". We both live in our home, we both benefit from it being clean and having meals, etc. My own six-figure husband feels much the same way WL describes above. And he would never claim special no-cleaning status because of the level of his earnings. Perhaps the difference is that for most of our married life, I've had a professional career of my own, so I know the stresses of a job, too. Btw, if my husband has to read up on the latest technology, of course he can. but he doesn't use that as an excuse to do nothing else at home.

I presume you can afford to hire help for those tasks. From your posts, I'll bet you're pretty darn close to six figures. It's a waste to dumb down your life doing those things yourself. You don't just "read up". You attend user group meetings, training sessions, build your network. You try to become as knowledgeable as possible. If you reach the point of diminishing returns in that area, then one can exercise to become physically fit and have more energy. One must stay the top of their game unless they want to fall behind the international competition. The wolf is at the door and poverty is closer than you think.

If someone is digging graves for $25K, they are in serious trouble and should figure away out of that trap.

[Arbo]

I presume you can afford to hire help for those tasks. From your posts, I'll bet you're pretty darn close to six figures. It's a waste to dumb down your life doing those things yourself.

So not only is it 'womans work', it is now 'poor people' work. Very interesting. I don't care if I made 8 or 9 figures, nobody comes into my house to take care of my house, as it's neither a waste or a dumbing down of my life to be responsible and take care of my home.

Can't help to think what sort of bad example such an attitude sets in kids. No wonder there are so many nowadays that think they don't need to life a finger.

[Trigg]

So not only is it 'womans work', it is now 'poor people' work. Very interesting. I don't care if I made 8 or 9 figures, nobody comes into my house to take care of my house, as it's neither a waste or a dumbing down of my life to be responsible and take care of my home.

Can't help to think what sort of bad example such an attitude sets in kids. No wonder there are so many nowadays that think they don't need to life a finger.

Extremely good point. I know many doctors kids who are required to clean their own rooms. It teaches them responsibility, it also teaches them that just because their parents have money it doesn't mean they can treat people as "less than" themselves. Something tailfins could obviously could use some help with.

It is never beneath someone to clean their own house or require that their children help out. I do not work full time, so I consider the household chores my job, since I have more time to devote to them. However Nuke is a lot of help and is always willing to cook and clean if I need an extra hand.

[tailfins]

So not only is it 'womans work', it is now 'poor people' work. Very interesting. I don't care if I made 8 or 9 figures, nobody comes into my house to take care of my house, as it's neither a waste or a dumbing down of my life to be responsible and take care of my home.

Can't help to think what sort of bad example such an attitude sets in kids. No wonder there are so many nowadays that think they don't need to life a finger.

That might be an interesting punishment for bad grades ... hmmmm. :thinking5:

[logroller]

It's beneath a woman as well if she earns six figures AND doesn't have elementary age or younger kids. Kids without a mom at home grow up to have a rough personality.
There are things that people value more than money and that is unique to each person, family, etc. The paradigm that women are the caregivers and men are the breadwinners is not written in stone; indeed society has adapted from its hunter/gatherer origins; so this whole women stay home to cook clean and raise kids unless they earn more money elsewhere is as valid an evaluation of an individual's productive capability as how many deer you brought home. I recognize we have a complex society that allows for greater production but that isn't to say that an individual is an automoton, positioned into the niche which society deems us best-suited and t do otherwise is 'beneath them' -- get real man, that line of logic is fundamentally not human. For example there's far more productive ways to conceive a child than intercourse but I don't know of too many people who conceived in vitro because they had such a great paying job that coitus was (no pun intended) beneath them.

[Arbo]

Extremely good point. I know many doctors kids who are required to clean their own rooms. It teaches them responsibility, it also teaches them that just because their parents have money it doesn't mean they can treat people as "less than" themselves. Something tailfins could obviously could use some help with.

I have a friend that is an anesthesiologist, he worked hard to get where he is. His father was a neurosurgeon… but was just in school when they had him, they lived sparsely and he grew up knowing the feeling of not having much. His little sister was born after his dad was in practice, and she is 180 degrees out from him, she expects things, thinks she deserves things, merely because she is alive.

So those who are well off and make their kids work in the house, are doing those kids and society a favor.


That might be an interesting punishment for bad grades ... hmmmm. :thinking5:

It is called being responsible, if used only for punishment, that teaches the wrong idea to them, as well as the wrong set of values.

[Nukeman]

I have a friend that is an anesthesiologist, he worked hard to get where he is. His father was a neurosurgeon… but was just in school when they had him, they lived sparsely and he grew up knowing the feeling of not having much. His little sister was born after his dad was in practice, and she is 180 degrees out from him, she expects things, thinks she deserves things, merely because she is alive.

So those who are well off and make their kids work in the house, are doing those kids and society a favor.



It is called being responsible, if used only for punishment, that teaches the wrong idea to them, as well as the wrong set of values.
I have a young man that worked for me while completing high school and starting college. His parents were multi-millionaires. They made him work in the factory with EVERY OTHER person they hired. He knows how to do everything in the company. He studied very hard in college and was accepted to med school. He is currently working on becoming an orthopedic surgeon. He still makes time to spend about 2 months a year in Guatemala volunteering and helping with medical care and building homes and schools.

Now tell me Tailfins... Is that "beneath him" due to his advanced income background and future income potential? Is it beneath him to help less fortunate even though he could "pay" someone to do it for him?? It takes a special kind of self centered grandiose moron to discount good honest hard work and what it instills in a person!!!!!!!!!!

I came from parents that worked low wage jobs their whole life so that I could better myself. I make a very good living but I would not expect anyone to do something I will not!! In fact I do not ask my employees to do anything I wouldn't, even though I am their employer!!!!!! It's called being respectful and honorable!!!!!!! Try it some time!!!

[fj1200]

I agree with most of what has been said but I think most are forgetting the mindset from which it comes. TF has stated in the past that he sees things as transactions and as a transaction giving up the income of $50-100 per hour to do something that could be hired out for $10-15 per hour is a losing transaction. That doesn't take into account certain intangibles but those are less quantifiable to a transactional based standpoint.

[gabosaurus]

I came from parents that worked low wage jobs their whole life so that I could better myself. I make a very good living but I would not expect anyone to do something I will not!! In fact I do not ask my employees to do anything I wouldn't, even though I am their employer!!!!!! It's called being respectful and honorable!!!!!!! Try it some time!!!

Exceptional advice, Nukeman. Obviously your son has benefited from your experience.
My parents both worked average wage job to support our family. We did not have much, but we did not want for the basics. My parents did not allow us to work during the school year because they wanted us to concentrate on school and being social. But we had to get jobs during the summer, even though we did not need the money. My dad wanted us to learn what it was like to have to work for a living. Not only that, but we were not allowed to spend it frivolously. We had to save the majority of it and establish a budget.
It was very valuable experience for two teenage girls who had never been exposed to such things. My sister benefited more because she and her husband both work low wage jobs. She budgets every last dollar to make things work.
This is one great thing my husband is teaching our daughter. She already knows how our budget and expenditures work because my husband has explained it to her. I think this has made her more grounded. She realizes that money is not just there for the taking.

[Nukeman]

I agree with most of what has been said but I think most are forgetting the mindset from which it comes. TF has stated in the past that he sees things as transactions and as a transaction giving up the income of $50-100 per hour to do something that could be hired out for $10-15 per hour is a losing transaction. That doesn't take into account certain intangibles but those are less quantifiable to a transactional based standpoint.
Although I can agree on "what is my time worth" I have to disagree with you on paying someone just because you can. Do you really need to pay someone to cut the grass for an hour at 20.00 so you can "watch" them do it, or do you do it yourself and relax... This way of thinking is WRONG on so many levels.

EVERYONE'S time is precious and expensive, just because you earn x number of dollars an hour does not mean you make that EVERY hour of the day... Now if the choice is taking a day off work to do something that I could hire someone to do for less than I make, than you have a point. That isn't what we are talking about here though....

[Arbo]

I agree with most of what has been said but I think most are forgetting the mindset from which it comes. TF has stated in the past that he sees things as transactions and as a transaction giving up the income of $50-100 per hour to do something that could be hired out for $10-15 per hour is a losing transaction. That doesn't take into account certain intangibles but those are less quantifiable to a transactional based standpoint.

I still see it as a very leftist point of view. "it's work for the little people".

[fj1200]

Although I can agree on "what is my time worth" I have to disagree with you on paying someone just because you can.

That's not what I was saying, only that you're not taking into account the mindset of who is saying it.

[fj1200]

I still see it as a very leftist point of view. "it's work for the little people".

Division of labor and comparative advantage isn't a leftist POV. It's an economics thing and the entire basis for trade, this just happens to be on the personal/micro level and not macro. :)

[Arbo]

Division of labor and comparative advantage isn't a leftist POV. It's an economics thing and the entire basis for trade, this just happens to be on the personal/micro level and not macro. :)

The basic concept is not, but when it evolves into a 'work below me' attitude tied together with a lack of personal responsibility to take care of what is yours, it transforms into a lefty POV. And I see it as one of the major problems in civilization… it is part of what had lead to this whole entitlement mindset we see.

[fj1200]

The basic concept is not, but when it evolves into a 'work below me' attitude tied together with a lack of personal responsibility to take care of what is yours, it transforms into a lefty POV. And I see it as one of the major problems in civilization… it is part of what had lead to this whole entitlement mindset we see.

You can tie many things together to get entitlements. But overall that's why it's shirtsleeves-to-shirtsleeves in three generations; human nature.

[glockmail]

I'm sick and tired of making decisions and analyzing technical details all day long. Give me a lawn that needs mowing, a meal that needs fixing, and for desert, a car that needs repairing. :laugh:

[logroller]

So not only is it 'womans work', it is now 'poor people' work. Very interesting. I don't care if I made 8 or 9 figures, nobody comes into my house to take care of my house, as it's neither a waste or a dumbing down of my life to be responsible and take care of my home.

Can't help to think what sort of bad example such an attitude sets in kids. No wonder there are so many nowadays that think they don't need to life a finger.

In regards to inheritance,
"...a very rich person should leave his kids enough to do anything but not enough to do nothing."


Warren Buffett (1930 -)


Source: A conversation with Warren Buffett: http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/25/magazines/fortune/charity2.fortune/index.htm

I believe that inheritance, nor even being rich is a solely fiscal matter. The logic behind the quote above demonstrates that there are pursuits that aren't demonstrated by financial well-being and indeed some valid pursuits may well be forsaken under purely fiscal consideration.

[Arbo]

Warren Buffett (1930 -)

I really don't care much for Buffett or any of the numerous other rich folks that have taken a holier than thou stance and suggest that giving away most if not all of their money upon their death is some great sacrifice for them. They will be dead, they don't need it. If they want to make an impact, get rid of it now.

[Abbey Marie]

I presume you can afford to hire help for those tasks. From your posts, I'll bet you're pretty darn close to six figures. It's a waste to dumb down your life doing those things yourself. You don't just "read up". You attend user group meetings, training sessions, build your network. You try to become as knowledgeable as possible. If you reach the point of diminishing returns in that area, then one can exercise to become physically fit and have more energy. One must stay the top of their game unless they want to fall behind the international competition. The wolf is at the door and poverty is closer than you think.

If someone is digging graves for $25K, they are in serious trouble and should figure away out of that trap.

In 24 years of marriage, the only time any one has cleaned our house besides us, was right after I had our daughter. We had a woman come in just once. While it would be wonderful to have these tasks done by someone else, we do not deem it a reasonable use of our money. Just keeping a home and cars in good repair is costly enough.

As for the tech stuff, my husband has been in IT for as long as we've been married; responsible for many different technologies in a Fortune 100 company with a huge global network. I only mention this so that you understand how important it is for him to keep up. Luckily for us, conferences are arranged and paid for by his company. All else he takes care of and has no complaints. I am lucky to have a husband who reads on his own time and stays current. I am also lucky to have a husband who loves me enough to want to contribute to the home in other ways.