US adults are dumber than the average human

[Arbo]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/



In math, reading and problem-solving using technology – all skills considered critical for global competitiveness and economic strength – American adults scored below the international average on a global test, according to results released Tuesday.

Adults in Japan, Canada, Australia, Finland and multiple other countries scored significantly higher than the United States in all three areas on the test. Beyond basic reading and math, respondents were tested on activities such as calculating mileage reimbursement due to a salesman, sorting email and comparing food expiration dates on grocery store tags.

Not shocking. Not shocking at all.

[cadet]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/



Not shocking. Not shocking at all.

Well.... We have to add in all those morons in the cities.
and I'm not surprised. I've met many an american that couldn't string a sentence together.
And... Nobody ever understands the math I do...

[tailfins]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/



Not shocking. Not shocking at all.

You've stated the problem, but no mention of a solution. For example, obesity is a problem, so the solution is to move your butt and quit eating like a pig.

[Arbo]

You've stated the problem, but no mention of a solution. For example, obesity is a problem, so the solution is to move your butt and quit eating like a pig.

Get the federal government out of education, they have been dumbing it down ever since they stuck their fingers into it.

[tailfins]

Get the federal government out of education, they have been dumbing it down ever since they stuck their fingers into it.

Then the solution is to depend on the govenment to do as you suggest?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Then the solution is to depend on the govenment to do as you suggest?

When a bad man is hitting you with a stick the solution is not to beg him to stop it. The solution is to take that damn stick away from him and beat his ass with it. America has been so dumbed down that it fails to grasp this simple solution which is why it was dumbed down in the first place. We have a dictatorial government hell bent on enslaving us so the solution is not going to be found within or with the help of that same government! We have reached the point where that government must be overthrown by whatever it takes! That is the sad reality that nobody wants to face. -Tyr

[tailfins]

When a bad man is hitting you with a stick the solution is not to beg him to stop it. The solution is to take that damn stick away from him and beat his ass with it. America has been so dumbed down that it fails to grasp this simple solution which is why it was dumbed down in the first place. We have a dictatorial government hell bent on enslaving us so the solution is not going to be found within or with the help of that same government! We have reached the point where that government must be overthrown by whatever it takes! That is the sad reality that nobody wants to face. -Tyr

I was thinking of an immediate, less drastic course of action. Namely, study and lead your children to study. If it is necessary to show up at a school, it's not really necessary to participate. It is dumbed down, so its not hard to just "go through the motions" and pass. Since my youngest isn't up to the task of virtual school, we are keeping them in public school at the moment. The principal won't facilitate my oldest studying Algebra I early, so we bought a used copy of the textbook on Amazon.com and he's learning it at home.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was thinking of an immediate, less drastic course of action. Namely, study and lead your children to study. If it is necessary to show up at a school, it's not really necessary to participate. Since my youngest isn't up to the task of virtual school, we are keeping them in public school at the moment. The principal won't facilitate my oldest studying Algebra I early, so we bought a used copy of the textbook on Amazon.com and he's learning it at home. I agree that is a good start. However America should have embarked on such as that about 3 decades back. That will not solve what we are currently facing IMHO. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE LESS THAN A DECADE TO TURN IT AROIND OR WE SINK. And quietly likely even less time such as less than 5 years! --Tyr

[Arbo]

Then the solution is to depend on the govenment to do as you suggest?

What part of 'get the government out of education' suggests that we need to depend on government? Seriously, that is the most insane interpretation I have ever seen.

If I remember correctly the department of education was created around 77 or 78. Since that time, how much money has it spent, and how many people has it educated? I'd guess a shit ton in terms of money spent, and zero in terms of people educated. The federal government has zero business in education (among numerous other things), and just about all it touches it screws up. Return the power of education to the states where it belongs, and where it was prior to the start of the department of education. Whatever % of spending is used by the feds for 'education' is how much federal taxes should be reduced so the money stays in the states.

[tailfins]

What part of 'get the government out of education' suggests that we need to depend on government? Seriously, that is the most insane interpretation I have ever seen.

If I remember correctly the department of education was created around 77 or 78. Since that time, how much money has it spent, and how many people has it educated? I'd guess a shit ton in terms of money spent, and zero in terms of people educated. The federal government has zero business in education (among numerous other things), and just about all it touches it screws up. Return the power of education to the states where it belongs, and where it was prior to the start of the department of education. Whatever % of spending is used by the feds for 'education' is how much federal taxes should be reduced so the money stays in the states.

Allow me to introduce a concept called indivdualism. It means you don't wait for the government to do or not do something. It means you become aware of government abuse and insulate yourself immediately. It means you stop wishing for things to be the way they should be and respond to the reality today. This is at least twice you have been tone deaf in this manner. The first was in response to the the civil forfeiture of $35,000+. If someone is aware that civil forfeiture exists and leaves money in the bank, they are negligent. Complaining about the government is a poor excuse for inaction. If the government is incompetent about education, you don't wait for the government to become competent, you make up the deficiencies yourself.

[Arbo]

Allow me to introduce a concept called indivdualism.

You would be better off if you just stuck to the topic, rather than trying to ram words down the mouths of people.

Do you DISAGREE that the fed's need to be pushed out of education or not? Simple question.

[tailfins]

You would be better off if you just stuck to the topic, rather than trying to ram words down the mouths of people.

Do you DISAGREE that the fed's need to be pushed out of education or not? Simple question.


That's like asking "Do you believe sickness should be eliminated?" It's a pipe dream. In order to entertain your question: How do you propose to push the Federal government out of education? How soon can you have that implented? When there's a cesspool around you, it's productive to stop thinking about the turds one-by-one. Just try to avoid as much stink as you can.

[Arbo]

That's like asking "Do you believe sickness should be eliminated?" It's a pipe dream. In order to entertain your question: How do you propose to push the Federal government out of education? How soon can you have that implented? When there's a cesspool around you, it's productive to stop thinking about the turds one-by-one. Just try to avoid as much stink as you can.

So you don't want to answer the question. Would have been easier to simply say that than to drone on about unrelated BS.

[Thunderknuckles]

"America’s school kids have historically scored low on international assessment tests compared to other countries, which is often blamed on the diversity of the population and the high number of immigrants. Also, achievement tests have long shown that a large chunk of the US student population lacks basic reading and math skills – most pronounced among low-income and minority students."

There you go. Even in the US, once you remove non asian minorities, educational stats start looking good. Sad but true.
I'll bet dollars to donuts, if you weed out that demographic, the US would be contending for the top spot.

[tailfins]

So you don't want to answer the question. Would have been easier to simply say that than to drone on about unrelated BS.

It's a question with an obvious answer. My reply should be an obvious answer to your question. Of course the US Department of Education should be dismantled and Federal involvement in education should be rolled back to pre-depression levels.

[Arbo]

Of course the US Department of Education should be dismantled and Federal involvement in education should be rolled back to pre-depression levels.

So we agree. Thanks.

[hjmick]

US adults are dumber than the average human


Eh... Speak for yourself...

[fj1200]

Eh... Speak for yourself...

Exactly, and this doesn't jibe with a thread, Kathianne??? started, that states that the US has more higher IQ people than any country.

[Arbo]

Eh... Speak for yourself...

Too much hard work to disprove the studies?

[fj1200]

Too much hard work to disprove the studies?

I believe he was referring to the specific, not the general. ;)

[Arbo]

I believe he was referring to the specific, not the general. ;)

Yeah, I know he was making things up to try and be funny. It failed. But the invitation still stands to disprove the study.

[fj1200]

Yeah, I know he was making things up to try and be funny. It failed. But the invitation still stands to disprove the study.

I was amused. :) Anyway, I think the point is that a study that compares general population like this is the same sort of argument that can be made for gun control, for example. Statistics prove that the US is more violent yada, yada, yada, so gun control is necessary which avoids/ignores? the statistics on the realities of gun violence. An ecological fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy) if you will.

[Arbo]

I was amused. :) Anyway, I think the point is that a study that compares general population like this is the same sort of argument that can be made for gun control, for example. Statistics prove that the US is more violent yada, yada, yada, so gun control is necessary which avoids/ignores? the statistics on the realities of gun violence. An ecological fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy) if you will.

I think the other user showed the issue with the study the best, though it's not something most want to address, and some of those will even shout 'racism' if it is discussed.

[fj1200]

I think the other user showed the issue with the study the best, though it's not something most want to address, and some of those will even shout 'racism' if it is discussed.

TK? Yup. That's the problem with someone boiling down the results of a study to a headline. You've got to dig deeper, which most probably won't do, to find out the agenda.


The United States will have a tough time catching up because money at the state and local level, a major source of education funding, has been slashed in recent years, said Jacob Kirkegaard, an economist with the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

Money, money, mooooooooneeey. /pink floyd

[Nukeman]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/



Not shocking. Not shocking at all.
Do you have the information as to how the "study" was conducted? Was it random folks on the street, or were they invited to take a test, or was it an online test?

Without showing me how the "test" was given and how the participants were picked how do you expect any of us to debunk the methodology of the study??

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to American educational system. WE INCLUDE EVERYONE!!! Most other countries especially the Nordic ones specifically pointed out as a "bright spot" do not allow everyone to go to high school or college. You have to test into high school or you are sent to vocational/trade school and you have to test into college, not just if your check clears.. This is the problem with comparing the US to most European and Asian countries. The educated in those countries are PUSHED much harder than here, now that being said I would compare the top 20% in the US to any other country. We fall behind because we include EVERYONE, is that really a disservice? We try to educate all not just the top tier...

So back to my original question, who did they test, where did they get the pool of subjects, how was the test administered? Without this information your request for "disproving" the study is nothing but hubris... No offense intended but one cannot dispute without all the information, just as one cannot prove without all the information...

[hjmick]

Too much hard work to disprove the studies?


Not worth the time nor is it worth the effort. I know how smart I am and isn't that all that truly matters? Well, unless of course a person is not as smart as they think the are...



Yeah, I know he was making things up to try and be funny. It failed. But the invitation still stands to disprove the study.


It was funny to those with a sense of humor, and those who do not take themselves so seriously...

You? I couldn't care less if you thought it was funny.

[tailfins]

Irrespective of the study, parents are utimately responsible for their children being properly equipped to earn a living. Audit what your children are being taught and make up the deficiency. If your audit didn't find deficiencies, your audit was faulty.

[Arbo]

Money, money, mooooooooneeey. /pink floyd

Indeed, that is often the cry.. more money. Though I think several studies have shown that doesn't make a difference.



One thing to keep in mind when it comes to American educational system. WE INCLUDE EVERYONE!!! Most other countries especially the Nordic ones specifically pointed out as a "bright spot" do not allow everyone to go to high school or college. You have to test into high school or you are sent to vocational/trade school and you have to test into college, not just if your check clears..

Agreed 100%. I wonder if the modern day 'progressives' would support us moving to such a system.


I know how smart I am and isn't that all that truly matters?

If only you vote counted, perhaps.

[Thunderknuckles]

So back to my original question, who did they test, where did they get the pool of subjects, how was the test administered? Without this information your request for "disproving" the study is nothing but hubris... No offense intended but one cannot dispute without all the information, just as one cannot prove without all the information...
That information will never see the light of day. The New York Post relies on Yellow Journalism and sensationalism.
The entire "study" was probably conducted by a couple of bored interns (Researchers) who stepped outside for a smoke break and started asking some random passersby a few questions (166,000 from 20 countries)

[DragonStryk72]

I think the largest chunk of what holds us back in the US is coming in at education in reverse. For some insane reason, we try to fit every kid who comes through the door into a predetermined mold that they must be able fit, both in results, as well as in the way in which they learn.

Now of course some of this is the overall state and federal involvement, because in order for them to measure, they, by needs, must establish standards that the students may be measured by. However, another section of it is this hidebound attachment to rote learning for every student, and it's just moronic.

When you look at Japanese students, you see far higher grades, but less standardized testing. As well, high academic achievement is actually rewarded, and not just with honor roll. The highest scoring student is made the class leader, and those who do well can expect to have greater time to themselves, more access to outside activities, and if you're particularly advanced, they will move you up to the grade level your abilities match.

But then, they also require you to join clubs, to increase the social cohesiveness of students, and it's not like they particularly care what the club is. You could be in A/V Club, and Cooking Club, or Kendo, whatever floats your boat, but they're putting you with some other people with similar interests to you.

If your grades aren't up to snuff for the school you want to attend, or you just want to get a jump on the next year's courses? Go hit Cram School over the summer.

Compare that to US schools, where many times, students are repeatedly being slapped with a leash if they get ahead of the class, at most get an honor roll award, and maybe a certificate somewhere along. That's it, we don't reward excellence, we beat it back down into the mass, and so many students who might otherwise rise, lose motivation, and just drift off.