Vets Storm Shuttered WWII Memorial in Protest Over Shutdown

[Jeff]

Some good news for a change, seems some in the senate have a brain , these WW2 vets had a right to see this memorial and just because a bunch of idiots from DC can't get there stuff together shouldn't mean they made the trip for nothing .



Several members of Congress on Tuesday morning cut police tape and removed concrete barricades (http://twitter.com/LeoShane/status/385066927506194432/photo/1) set up by the U.S. National Park Service to allow 91 World War II veterans, arriving from Mississippi on Honor Flights, to visit their memorial on the Mall.

The federal memorial had been closed amid the government shutdown but lawmakers were having nothing of it, said former Michigan Rep. Pete Hoekstra, who was there along with an empowered group of passersby who chanted, "Let them in, let them in," and applauded as the barriers were removed.

Hoekstra said to their credit, security did not intervene as many veterans in wheelchairs made what will likely be their final and only trip to see a memorial honoring their service.


http://www.newsmax.com/US/veterans-wwii-memorial-barricade/2013/10/01/id/528691?ns_mail_uid=65343364&ns_mail_job=1539847_10012013&promo_code=150BC-1

[Trinity]

Some good news for a change, seems some in the senate have a brain , these WW2 vets had a right to see this memorial and just because a bunch of idiots from DC can't get there stuff together shouldn't mean they made the trip for nothing .




http://www.newsmax.com/US/veterans-wwii-memorial-barricade/2013/10/01/id/528691?ns_mail_uid=65343364&ns_mail_job=1539847_10012013&promo_code=150BC-1



and he beat me to it.....but I'm adding ;)

[Trinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tblNVCsV-8

[aboutime]

Thanks for posting this all.

Those Veterans DESERVE Our respect. They earned it, and made it possible for

EVERY LIVING AMERICAN...R, D, and I to enjoy Living in this nation.

Take notice how our phony president didn't step forward, or be heard in behalf of

the VETERANS he, and his wife Claim to LOVE, and Admire?????

GOD BLESS AMERICA. For as long as we have an America to Bless.

[Trinity]

Here's another one....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqbhSqo3iy4

[aboutime]

Here's another one....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqbhSqo3iy4


Trinity. I THANK YOU. With tears in my eyes. I THANK YOU for letting us see, and know about this.
Otherwise. Who would have told the American people?

They can close buildings, parks, and entire cities if they want.

But they will never CLOSE our HEARTS.

[Arbo]

Some good news for a change, seems some in the senate have a brain , these WW2 vets had a right to see this memorial and just because a bunch of idiots from DC can't get there stuff together shouldn't mean they made the trip for nothing .

Yes, read this story. There were two groups of vets. And what 'security' there was didn't care they were there, they helped them into it. So they didn't really 'storm' the place. It's kinda like another story I read where they said if national monuments are closed, does that mean you can't walk on the Mall in DC? Officials there answered with a 'like we could stop them even if we wanted to'.

[jimnyc]

Rand Paul: 'Goons' Set Up Barricades Around MonumentsSen. Rand Paul isn't impressed with the closing of national monuments to tourists as part of the government shutdown, noting someone had to work to put up barriers that normally aren't there.

"Some idiot in government sent goons out there to set up barricades so they couldn't see the monument," Paul, R-Ky., said Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity." "People had to spend hours setting up barricades where there are never barricades, to prevent people from seeing the World War II monument 'cause they're trying to play a charade."

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Paul-Obamacare-barricades-monuments/2013/10/01/id/528786

[Larrymc]

Some good news for a change, seems some in the senate have a brain , these WW2 vets had a right to see this memorial and just because a bunch of idiots from DC can't get there stuff together shouldn't mean they made the trip for nothing .




http://www.newsmax.com/US/veterans-wwii-memorial-barricade/2013/10/01/id/528691?ns_mail_uid=65343364&ns_mail_job=1539847_10012013&promo_code=150BC-1Man and Obama was counting on that News story, "WW2 Vets make trip for nothing, because of the Republicans"

[Jeff]

Seems Obama and others knew the Vets where coming and still just said the heck with it , the Senator from Mississippi had let them know they where coming and Obama and his thugs rejected it.



The White House and the Department of the Interior rejected a request from Rep. Steven Palazzo’s office to have World War II veterans visit the World War II memorial in Washington, the Mississippi Republicanhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/01/obama-admin-knew-about-wwii-veterans-request-and-rejected-it/#) told The Daily Caller Tuesday.
Palazzo helped the veterans commit an act of civil disobedience against the Park Service Tuesday, when the heroes stormed through barricades around the closed memorial. (Related: WWII vets storm closed memorial as GOP congressman reportedly distracts cops (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/01/wwii-vets-storm-shut-down-memorial-as-gop-congressman-reportedly-distracts-cops/))
The veterans were visiting the memorial as part of Honor Flight, a non-profit that provides veterans free transport to the nation’s capital to visit the memorials to the wars they fought in




http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/01/obama-admin-knew-about-wwii-veterans-request-and-rejected-it/

[glockmail]

"Some idiot in government sent goons out there to set up barricades so they couldn't see the monument," Paul, R-Ky., said Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity." "People had to spend hours setting up barricades where there are never barricades, to prevent people from seeing the World War II monument 'cause they're trying to play a charade."


He's exactly right. The Obama is trying to cause as much disruption as possible. Some journalist needs to investigate this and find out exactly who is responsible.

And wasn't this thing built soley with private funds? What right does some bureaucrat have for trying to shut it down?

[aboutime]

Is there, or can there ever be any more doubt that the Present CIC is a scumbag?

Like his first four years of blaming others, like BUSH.

His Phony Legacy, I will happily call "THE GREAT OBAMA LIE", will forever show Americans, and the people around the World who were not fooled...."Obama is to Blame".

[CSM]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, folks. Have you checked to see what this shut down has done to your state's National Guard? Seen anything on how many folks working in the defense industry who are on the verge of being "furloghed" because no money has been allocated for fiscal year 14? Heard any news stories yet on how many private companies that support military bases, defense contractors and services for the military (janitorial services, for example) are in trouble? While the Washington kabuki dance is in progress, real people are being inflicted with the pain for the sake of political agendas. All the bluster about national parks is just scratching the surface.

[Jeff]

Is there, or can there ever be any more doubt that the Present CIC is a scumbag?

Like his first four years of blaming others, like BUSH.

His Phony Legacy, I will happily call "THE GREAT OBAMA LIE", will forever show Americans, and the people around the World who were not fooled...."Obama is to Blame".


The last article i posted was one of those two page reports but on the first one they had a video of the WW2 vets speaking and at the end the one vet said it best , at no other time in history has Washington had less brains in it.


Here is the address to the first page
http://conservativebyte.com/2013/10/obama-knew-wwii-veterans-request-rejected/

[aboutime]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, folks. Have you checked to see what this shut down has done to your state's National Guard? Seen anything on how many folks working in the defense industry who are on the verge of being "furloghed" because no money has been allocated for fiscal year 14? Heard any news stories yet on how many private companies that support military bases, defense contractors and services for the military (janitorial services, for example) are in trouble? While the Washington kabuki dance is in progress, real people are being inflicted with the pain for the sake of political agendas. All the bluster about national parks is just scratching the surface.



CSM. Agreed. It's all part of the Liberal, Master Plan that began during the FDR era, and sadly. Our population is far too Uneducated, or Interested to have any real concerns...other than what's in it for them?
Obama and the Democrats thrive on IGNORANCE.
The longer they can prolong, and institute further lack of knowledge for WE THE PEOPLE, the sooner they get the results they planned for all along.

The tip of the iceberg is an UNDERSTATEMENT!

[Jeff]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, folks. Have you checked to see what this shut down has done to your state's National Guard? Seen anything on how many folks working in the defense industry who are on the verge of being "furloghed" because no money has been allocated for fiscal year 14? Heard any news stories yet on how many private companies that support military bases, defense contractors and services for the military (janitorial services, for example) are in trouble? While the Washington kabuki dance is in progress, real people are being inflicted with the pain for the sake of political agendas. All the bluster about national parks is just scratching the surface.

CSM you are exactly right , a guy that I ride with works at a Government run facility and they are shut down ( he has to show up just to make sure everything is OK but all others that worked there are sitting home ) a friend of mine in NJ is all upset , seems she has worked for the Gov. for years and was hit with a hour cut back when the sequester started now she is out of work all together and the Health department here in Ga ( My wife use to run the WIC department there ) says they have 2 weeks worth of funds to stay open then they will be shutting there doors ( according to the wife's friend that runs the Health Department )

[Arbo]

80% of federal workers are still on and will remain 'on the job'. To believe this shutdown is 'catastrophic' (the past 17 times were not catastrophic) is to simply fall into and believe the (D) talking points.

BTW, the house put forth measures to fund the national parks and veterans services, but the (D)'s in the house voted against them. Shows that all the 'issues' with the shutdown are self made to make a political point and try to make the other guy look bad.

[Jeff]

80% of federal workers are still on and will remain 'on the job'. To believe this shutdown is 'catastrophic' (the past 17 times were not catastrophic) is to simply fall into and believe the (D) talking points.

BTW, the house put forth measures to fund the national parks and veterans services, but the (D)'s in the house voted against them. Shows that all the 'issues' with the shutdown are self made to make a political point and try to make the other guy look bad.

Arbo by no means am I arguing your point I am just showing what a liar Obama is , according to him the Republicans are guilty of everything he has done nothing wrong but according to your facts the (D's) look to be the ones not cooperating and honestly I am with you here, yes there are those out of work but Obama wants us to believe it is terrible what is going on and that it is all the fault of the (R's) , whatch the video it is rather humorous or not ( if ya watch the lies it is but if ya watch the lies it is sad )





A fiery President Obama today singled out the Republican Party for ‘holding the nation to ransom’ as the country entered the 13th hour of a partial government shutdown, forcing some 800,000 federal workers off the job.
And in a tense exchange with a reporter in the White House briefing room, press secretary Jay Carney refused to concede that the president is in any way to blame.
‘Does the president bear any responsibility at all for what’s going on?’ an aggressive journalist asked Carney.
‘He certainly did not vote to shut the government down,’ came the reply, ‘and if that’s what you’re asking, no.’

http://clashdaily.com/2013/10/punk-wh-press-secretary-says-obama-responsible-govt-shutdown-anything-else-sucks/

[glockmail]

I don't feel sorry for any GovCo employees who are out of jobs. The Great Recession was completely caused by GovCo and destroyed many more private jobs while they all sat back and sucked on the public tit. It's about time these was some comeuppance.

[CSM]

Just a point of clarification: the folks I mentioned in my post are not 'government workers'; they are the folks that support the government workers but funded by government contracts. I know that many people do not realize that the equipment the military uses is not actually built by the military but by contractors, that many services on military bases are run by contractors and all those parts that the military relies on to maintain equipment are procured through military contracts. That is what makes this shutdown a teeny bit different than those in the past; most of the contracts that are usually funded on October 1st have not been funded either through budget or CR are all on hold as of 2400 hours Monday/Tuesday. That is why I mentioned the National Guard ... training has been cancelled until either a CR or budget is in place, full time Guardsmen have been sent home (except for the token "emergency" personnel) and all services for the families of Guardsmen have been suspended. I know that seems minor to many but I can assure you to those Guardsmen and their families this is not trivial. This is not trivial to that machinist making parts for the vehicles, planes and ships our military needs to do their jobs, it is not trivial to janitorial service personnel that rely on the weekly paycheck they normally receive for cleaning the general's restroom and on and on. Collateral damage in the political war going on in Washington. I am glad that 80% of government workers are getting their paycheck, that politicians still are getting their pay and all that. I feel for the collateral damage victims, though.

[Kathianne]

Just a point of clarification: the folks I mentioned in my post are not 'government workers'; they are the folks that support the government workers but funded by government contracts. I know that many people do not realize that the equipment the military uses is not actually built by the military but by contractors, that many services on military bases are run by contractors and all those parts that the military relies on to maintain equipment are procured through military contracts. That is what makes this shutdown a teeny bit different than those in the past; most of the contracts that are usually funded on October 1st have not been funded either through budget or CR are all on hold as of 2400 hours Monday/Tuesday. That is why I mentioned the National Guard ... training has been cancelled until either a CR or budget is in place, full time Guardsmen have been sent home (except for the token "emergency" personnel) and all services for the families of Guardsmen have been suspended. I know that seems minor to many but I can assure you to those Guardsmen and their families this is not trivial. This is not trivial to that machinist making parts for the vehicles, planes and ships our military needs to do their jobs, it is not trivial to janitorial service personnel that rely on the weekly paycheck they normally receive for cleaning the general's restroom and on and on. Collateral damage in the political war going on in Washington. I am glad that 80% of government workers are getting their paycheck, that politicians still are getting their pay and all that. I feel for the collateral damage victims, though. Gee, wonder how many of contract workers or government workers have lost a minute thinking of those who've lost their jobs, had their hours cut, lost their homes, while never being in the position of having the federal gov't as their employer or source of their income. We are talking days, while this monstrosity of 'governing' has done all they can to drain our futures.

[CSM]

Gee, wonder how many of contract workers or government workers have lost a minute thinking of those who've lost their jobs, had their hours cut, lost their homes, while never being in the position of having the federal gov't as their employer or source of their income. We are talking days, while this monstrosity of 'governing' has done all they can to drain our futures.

Good point. I guess those contractors, government workers and military members really are the heart of the problem and not deserving of any concern at all.

[aboutime]

Good point. I guess those contractors, government workers and military members really are the heart of the problem and not deserving of any concern at all.


I do believe our anger, in many respects. Is highly misdirected.

Like it or not. Government Employee's are also Americans like all of us. It's not their fault they have jobs in the govt. that are the PAWNS of Political Games in Washington.

Think about it. Honestly. Suppose one of us on this forum was also a govt. employee, with a home, a family, and in need of cash to purchase our food, gas, clothing...JUST LIKE THE REST OF US who do not have Govt. jobs????

So. Why be hostile to the fellow Americans who just happen to work for the HUGE Govt?
We need to place all blame. HONEST BLAME...on OBAMA, and CONGRESS for all of this. Not the people who were Fortunate, or Unfortunate enough to get a Govt. job that ALL OF US can now blame on the People like Us????

Sounds like Obama, and Reid prefer to make life as difficult as possible for AMERICANS from all walks of life...All for a Political Favor, and SPECIAL interest.
THINK, BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

[Kathianne]

Good point. I guess those contractors, government workers and military members really are the heart of the problem and not deserving of any concern at all. No more than the rest of us. They know they'll be back, not true for the rest of the country.

[glockmail]

No more than the rest of us. They know they'll be back, not true for the rest of the country. True that. Many in the building fields have lost their businesses or careers because of what GovCo has done. I've seen large contractors who have been in business for nearly a century go bankrupt, yet there is a building boom in metro Washington, DC. Some of the wealthiest counties in the US are in the DC metro area. We have less participation in the workforce now than at any time in history, yet GovCo grows and grows.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for laid off GovCo employees, or those who support that sector of the economy.

[Larrymc]

Seems Obama and others knew the Vets where coming and still just said the heck with it , the Senator from Mississippi had let them know they where coming and Obama and his thugs rejected it.





http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/01/obama-admin-knew-about-wwii-veterans-request-and-rejected-it/Obama clearly intended to use this total disrespect of our Vets, to blame the Republicans, its high time something doesn't go the way he planed, Question is will his supporters finally see the arrogance of this Bastard, are will they call for arrest to be made?

[CSM]

True that. Many in the building fields have lost their businesses or careers because of what GovCo has done. I've seen large contractors who have been in business for nearly a century go bankrupt, yet there is a building boom in metro Washington, DC. Some of the wealthiest counties in the US are in the DC metro area. We have less participation in the workforce now than at any time in history, yet GovCo grows and grows.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for laid off GovCo employees, or those who support that sector of the economy.

I guess I just don't understand the thinking that some soldier, airman Marine or sailor on duty or some guy working an assembly line making parts for military use or some secretary providing administrative service for military personnel per government contract should be vilified or ostracized for doing so. Yes, they MAY be back but scorning them because you are angry with the elites that run this nation seems misdirected at best.

[glockmail]

I guess I just don't understand the thinking that some soldier, airman Marine or sailor on duty or some guy working an assembly line making parts for military use or some secretary providing administrative service for military personnel per government contract should be vilified or ostracized for doing so. Yes, they MAY be back but scorning them because you are angry with the elites that run this nation seems misdirected at best.I assure you that you are mistaken for thinking that I want the military or its contractors to suffer, since they are a Constitutionally mandated institution. My disdain is reserved for departments of GovCo and their employees who are involved in activities that are not enumerated in the Constitution. You can go to GovCo's listing of Departments, dozens of pages long, starting with the "AbilityOne Commission" and put most of them in the shredder.

[Kathianne]

I think this attempt to 'use the crisis' has backfired on the administration. Judicial Watch has put in FOIA request for orders about shuttering 24/7 malls and monuments. http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/10/02/exclusive-judicial-watch-files-foia-for-information-related-to-closing-of-wwii-memorial/ Today's WWII museum had a bi-partisan show from Congressional critters. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/world-war-ii-veterans-prove-unstoppable-entering-memorial/story?id=20446144 Families, friends, those with a heart are not happy with how vets and other visitors are being treated, they know whom to blame: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/01/obama-admin-knew-about-wwii-veterans-request-and-rejected-it/

[Larrymc]

Gee, wonder how many of contract workers or government workers have lost a minute thinking of those who've lost their jobs, had their hours cut, lost their homes, while never being in the position of having the federal gov't as their employer or source of their income. We are talking days, while this monstrosity of 'governing' has done all they can to drain our futures.They should be thinking now, because they've sure don't have any place to go. While considering just how unessential they may be!!

[Kathianne]

I guess I just don't understand the thinking that some soldier, airman Marine or sailor on duty or some guy working an assembly line making parts for military use or some secretary providing administrative service for military personnel per government contract should be vilified or ostracized for doing so. Yes, they MAY be back but scorning them because you are angry with the elites that run this nation seems misdirected at best. The military people are and will be paid. The House has attempted to bring separate funding for National Guard ans NIH, being blocked by Senate. For contractor workers, etc., no not sympathy, they make enough to get by for more than a few days.

[CSM]

I assure you that you are mistaken for thinking that I want the military or its contractors to suffer, since they are a Constitutionally mandated institution. My disdain is reserved for departments of GovCo and their employees who are involved in activities that are not enumerated in the Constitution. You can go to GovCo's listing of Departments, dozens of pages long, starting with the "AbilityOne Commission" and put most of them in the shredder.
I agree but lets face it, when you use the terms contractor or government employee, it encompasses a whole lot of folks that are indeed needed and necessary for this nation's well being. Clearly, not all government employees and contractors can be classified as non-essential. That park ranger taking care of the geysers in Yellowstone is a very different type of worker than the guy in charge of rusty paper clips at the White House.

[Thunderknuckles]

I think this attempt to 'use the crisis' has backfired on the administration.
As well it should. It is nothing but petty political theater. Most of the Malls and Monuments are out in the open and require no special staff on hand or security. You can walk right on up to them at your leisure.
The Administration actually had to spend money to try and close these things off to make a petty political statement.
They deserve all the backlash comng to them.

[CSM]

The military people are and will be paid. The House has attempted to bring separate funding for National Guard ans NIH, being blocked by Senate. For contractor workers, etc., no not sympathy, they make enough to get by for more than a few days.
Okie doke. I get it. No sympathy from you for those blood sucking, evil contractors.

[glockmail]

I agree but lets face it, when you use the terms contractor or government employee, it encompasses a whole lot of folks that are indeed needed and necessary for this nation's well being. Clearly, not all government employees and contractors can be classified as non-essential. That park ranger taking care of the geysers in Yellowstone is a very different type of worker than the guy in charge of rusty paper clips at the White House.

Show me where the national parks are enumerated in the Constitution and I'll start feeling sorry for laid off park service employees. It's not in there, and so the parks should be shut down. Better yet, sell them to the states, or any other private entity so that they can be run more efficiently, and without taxpayer expense. And use the money to pay off the national debt.

[glockmail]

As well it should. It is nothing but petty political theater. Most of the Malls and Monuments are out in the open and require no special staff on hand or security. You can walk right on up to them at your leisure.
The Administration actually had to spend money to try and close these things off to make a petty political statement.
They deserve all the backlash comng to them.

Look at the videos. All those barricades. What bullshit.

[CSM]

Show me where the national parks are enumerated in the Constitution and I'll start feeling sorry for laid off park service employees. It's not in there, and so the parks should be shut down. Better yet, sell them to the states, or any other private entity so that they can be run more efficiently, and without taxpayer expense. And use the money to pay off the national debt.

Ok I get it. I will no longer care about anyone remotely connected to the government!

[Kathianne]

Ok I get it. I will no longer care about anyone remotely connected to the government! I don't get why the hand wringing over contractors or non-essentials. The first are very well paid, the latter in all likelihood will get paid for being home. Now if it's friend or family and they are in dire straits after two days, likely not even missing a paycheck yet, send them some of your money.

[CSM]

I don't get why the hand wringing over contractors or non-essentials. The first are very well paid, the latter in all likelihood will get paid for being home. Now if it's friend or family and they are in dire straits after two days, likely not even missing a paycheck yet, send them some of your money.

Well, the truth is I have two sons who are "contractors". One teaches intelligence analysis at an Army training school and the other builds electronic devices for the US Air Force on a government contract. Both have been told that they will be placed on furlough next week. That means NO PAY for the time they are not working. I know you think they deserve it but it is a concern for me. I don't know how much you think they make but I can tell you that it is far less than most teachers in my neighborhood. I do not know where you get your info either but it is not correct. How do I know for a fact that my statements about them are true? Because I am a "contactor" as well and am in the same boat. I don't know about you, but two days without pay will be a problem for most folks trying to make ends meet. A week without pay will be worse. A month will be a disaster. I clearly understand that some posters on this board don't give a crap about certain people because of the job they do. Economic discrimination, I am finding out, is as heinous as racism. My skepticism of humanity is once again confirmed. I hope those same posters find comfort and some sense of satisfaction in the dilemma facing my family. All that being said, I will mention this no more.

[Larrymc]

Yes, read this story. There were two groups of vets. And what 'security' there was didn't care they were there, they helped them into it. So they didn't really 'storm' the place. It's kinda like another story I read where they said if national monuments are closed, does that mean you can't walk on the Mall in DC? Officials there answered with a 'like we could stop them even if we wanted to'.Come on Arbo got to give them the Storm, as much as 80 and 90 year olds can storm, all though we might be surprised when it comes to Vets!

[Arbo]

Well, the truth is I have two sons who are "contractors". One teaches intelligence analysis at an Army training school and the other builds electronic devices for the US Air Force on a government contract. Both have been told that they will be placed on furlough next week. That means NO PAY for the time they are not working. I know you think they deserve it but it is a concern for me. I don't know how much you think they make but I can tell you that it is far less than most teachers in my neighborhood. I do not know where you get your info either but it is not correct. How do I know for a fact that my statements about them are true? Because I am a "contactor" as well and am in the same boat. I don't know about you, but two days without pay will be a problem for most folks trying to make ends meet. A week without pay will be worse. A month will be a disaster. I clearly understand that some posters on this board don't give a crap about certain people because of the job they do. Economic discrimination, I am finding out, is as heinous as racism. My skepticism of humanity is once again confirmed. I hope those same posters find comfort and some sense of satisfaction in the dilemma facing my family. All that being said, I will mention this no more.

I have been in such a position, many many years ago. I understand. And it is true that many demonize *any* 'government worker', when the majority of them are just normal people like anyone else, not evil people plotting against the rest of us. On the flip side, most studies have shown that in pay and benefits, most any 'government' job takes far better care of people than the equivalent position in private industry, and I think that is part of what fuels the lack of caring about 'government' workers.

The reality is, if a 'shutdown' occurs, the first people that should go without pay are the elected people in DC. Doesn't mean they should be sent home, just forced to do their jobs without pay until they resolve the problems, as motivation to actually do their job for a change.

[Arbo]

Come on Arbo got to give them the Storm, as much as 80 and 90 year olds can storm, all though we might be surprised when it comes to Vets!

From the original news reports I heard, some of the police and one elected official simply helped them move barriers and let them in. Flood might be a better word as once open they flooded in. But I have been hearing bits of new stories where the dc police are starting to crack down so I can see a good bit of storming coming down the line, and a lot of bad press for the authorities when they either try or do arrest some of these vets. If any of the authorities had a brain they'd merely look the other way as people went to the monuments.

[CSM]

I have been in such a position, many many years ago. I understand. And it is true that many demonize *any* 'government worker', when the majority of them are just normal people like anyone else, not evil people plotting against the rest of us. On the flip side, most studies have shown that in pay and benefits, most any 'government' job takes far better care of people than the equivalent position in private industry, and I think that is part of what fuels the lack of caring about 'government' workers.

The reality is, if a 'shutdown' occurs, the first people that should go without pay are the elected people in DC. Doesn't mean they should be sent home, just forced to do their jobs without pay until they resolve the problems, as motivation to actually do their job for a change.

As I was trying to point out, there is a HUGE difference between folks like myself and my sons (who are considered contractors but NOT government workers) and others who ARE government workers. We do not have government jobs, we work for private companies that happen to have contracts with the US military for products and services. We do not receive government benefits nor a check signed by the US treasury. It irks me when we are lumped in with real government workers (those who hold a GS or SES position for example). We are contractors. I am proud of what we do to support the US military and hopefully some of the work we do pays of for soldiers in the field. Anyway, I broke my rule about not speaking of this again.... sorry to all of you who don't give a crap anyway.

[Arbo]

As I was trying to point out, there is a HUGE difference between folks like myself and my sons (who are considered contractors but NOT government workers) and others who ARE government workers. We do not have government jobs, we work for private companies that happen to have contracts with the US military for products and services. We do not receive government benefits nor a check signed by the US treasury. It irks me when we are lumped in with real government workers (those who hold a GS or SES position for example). We are contractors. I am proud of what we do to support the US military and hopefully some of the work we do pays of for soldiers in the field. Anyway, I broke my rule about not speaking of this again.... sorry to all of you who don't give a crap anyway.

Perhaps I should have said in my first few sentences that those that bitch about government workers as bad and evil never understand that differentiation. I apologize for not being clear on that one.

[aboutime]

The military people are and will be paid. The House has attempted to bring separate funding for National Guard ans NIH, being blocked by Senate. For contractor workers, etc., no not sympathy, they make enough to get by for more than a few days.


Kathianne. What seems to get lost in all of this govt. employee bashing by the non-govt. employee's here is...We need to remember. Like it or not, and at no fault of their own as govt. employee's. They are FIRST....Americans, like you and I. And SECOND....They have families, homes, bills, and pay taxes like you and I as well.

How would you feel if someone like you said the very same thing about all the KATHIANNE'S?

Would that make you feel comfortable?

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. What seems to get lost in all of this govt. employee bashing by the non-govt. employee's here is...We need to remember. Like it or not, and at no fault of their own as govt. employee's. They are FIRST....Americans, like you and I. And SECOND....They have families, homes, bills, and pay taxes like you and I as well. How would you feel if someone like you said the very same thing about all the KATHIANNE'S? Would that make you feel comfortable? One more time, they have missed two days of work, unlikely to miss more than a week or two. More than that, very likely to get paid for the time they were 'furloughed.' Thus, unscheduled holiday pay. Cry me a river. Now the kids with cancer? Yeah, Reid shouldn't be using them and Obama shouldn't be threatening a veto for partial funding.

[Larrymc]

Well, the truth is I have two sons who are "contractors". One teaches intelligence analysis at an Army training school and the other builds electronic devices for the US Air Force on a government contract. Both have been told that they will be placed on furlough next week. That means NO PAY for the time they are not working. I know you think they deserve it but it is a concern for me. I don't know how much you think they make but I can tell you that it is far less than most teachers in my neighborhood. I do not know where you get your info either but it is not correct. How do I know for a fact that my statements about them are true? Because I am a "contactor" as well and am in the same boat. I don't know about you, but two days without pay will be a problem for most folks trying to make ends meet. A week without pay will be worse. A month will be a disaster. I clearly understand that some posters on this board don't give a crap about certain people because of the job they do. Economic discrimination, I am finding out, is as heinous as racism. My skepticism of humanity is once again confirmed. I hope those same posters find comfort and some sense of satisfaction in the dilemma facing my family. All that being said, I will mention this no more.CSM sympathize with you, I don't expect government employees, to jeopardize there jobs, especially in this economy, but to the ones furloughed, i say hang on, sometimes things have to get bad to get better, Im on disability and fully expected my check to be the first to stop, and if it last more than a week or so it will, but i have been for the shut down every time, I explained to my wife it may get rough but we'll be ok, creditors will have no chose but to work with us, sense it will be so wide spread. we have groups coming together like the Truckers and Bikers, if someone were to put together some kind of worker strike in order to get the attention of the powers that be, then i would demonize even Government workers, if they ignored it, we all know this country is in sad shape, and unless enough people get fed up and come together and make some kind of stand there will be no change.

[Kathianne]

Well, the truth is I have two sons who are "contractors". One teaches intelligence analysis at an Army training school and the other builds electronic devices for the US Air Force on a government contract. Both have been told that they will be placed on furlough next week. That means NO PAY for the time they are not working. I know you think they deserve it but it is a concern for me. I don't know how much you think they make but I can tell you that it is far less than most teachers in my neighborhood. I do not know where you get your info either but it is not correct. How do I know for a fact that my statements about them are true? Because I am a "contactor" as well and am in the same boat. I don't know about you, but two days without pay will be a problem for most folks trying to make ends meet. A week without pay will be worse. A month will be a disaster. I clearly understand that some posters on this board don't give a crap about certain people because of the job they do. Economic discrimination, I am finding out, is as heinous as racism. My skepticism of humanity is once again confirmed. I hope those same posters find comfort and some sense of satisfaction in the dilemma facing my family. All that being said, I will mention this no more. I was rif'd 3 years ago, have been substituting and working part-time 2nd job ever since. I feel for you as you do for me. I understand that contract workers would not likely get back pay and that is a bite. Then again, millions have been doing without many things in the past 7 years. Many have lost their homes. I doubt many, including yourself and others have been sobbing for them. Why expect that in return? As for those poor non-essentials: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-back-pay_n_4025437.html

[CSM]

CSM sympathize with you, I don't expect government employees, to jeopardize there jobs, especially in this economy, but to the ones furloughed, i say hang on, sometimes things have to get bad to get better, Im on disability and fully expected my check to be the first to stop, and if it last more than a week or so it will, but i have been for the shut down every time, I explained to my wife it may get rough but we'll be ok, creditors will have no chose but to work with us, sense it will be so wide spread. we have groups coming together like the Truckers and Bikers, if someone were to put together some kind of worker strike in order to get the attention of the powers that be, then i would demonize even Government workers, if they ignored it, we all know this country is in sad shape, and unless enough people get fed up and come together and make some kind of stand there will be no change.

I am as upset as anyone else about the shut down and I understand that the reasoning behind it. Believe me, I know that sometimes you have to do things that are more than difficult to achieve something better. Been there and done that more than once. This administration is out of control and the politicians are out of control. Every darned petty bureaucrat at all levels seem to be out of control too. We citizens need to stand up and put a stop to this crap. Our elected officials can't and won't!

[Kathianne]

I didn't think shutting down gov was the way to go, but due to both sides it's here. Now, where will it go to? My guess is that the elites in both parties, including McCain, will be doing what they can to get it ended. What will people remember? WWII vets certainly. bigger question, can the conservatives change Obamacare?

[CSM]

I was rif'd 3 years ago, have been substituting and working part-time 2nd job ever since. I feel for you as you do for me. I understand that contract workers would not likely get back pay and that is a bite. Then again, millions have been doing without many things in the past 7 years. Many have lost their homes. I doubt many, including yourself and others have been sobbing for them. Why expect that in return? As for those poor non-essentials: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-back-pay_n_4025437.html

What makes you think that me and mine have not gone through the same at some point or another? Where were you when I was making 800 bucks a month on sergeant's pay trying to feed 4 kids and a wife? Where were you when I was working three jobs trying to make ends meet? Where were you when I was trying to buy a house for my family and denied because I was in the Army and didn't make enough money to qualify for a loan? Crying about how well off those government workers are, no doubt. I understand that others have had and still are experiencing hard times. I also understand your view. That being said, you have no idea what I and my sons have done to help others, sometimes at our own expense in money and labor. I have given and gotten help when needed. Just because you did not get a Christmas card from me with a check for a couple million does not mean I did not care or don't care now. I truly am sorry you went through what you did; I feel for the millions too . I do not know who you think I am or what you think I make or where you think I live but from what you are posting here, you are sadly mistaken. The fact is there are many worse off than I am and there are many equally better off than I as well. I am sincerely sorry that you are going through what you are ... I assure you, it is not my nor is it my sons' fault.

[Gaffer]

Nothings going to change until the govt is physically removed. I feel sorry for those that are put out of work, but they are just the peons to the govt elites. The elites have no problem with people suffering. They get their money and their control and no one else matters. We have a new royalty in place with a king and his court and all the nobles to support him.

Want to hate somebody? Hate the elites and their appointed minions.

[CSM]

I didn't think shutting down gov was the way to go, but due to both sides it's here. Now, where will it go to? My guess is that the elites in both parties, including McCain, will be doing what they can to get it ended. What will people remember? WWII vets certainly. bigger question, can the conservatives change Obamacare?

Hopefully, they remember more than just the vets. I also hope they try to get the facts for themselves and not just listen to talking heads and politicians looking for votes.

[aboutime]

One more time, they have missed two days of work, unlikely to miss more than a week or two. More than that, very likely to get paid for the time they were 'furloughed.' Thus, unscheduled holiday pay. Cry me a river. Now the kids with cancer? Yeah, Reid shouldn't be using them and Obama shouldn't be threatening a veto for partial funding.


Never mind.

[CSM]

My sincere apologies to Kathianne for my rather vitriolic posts and my apologies to board members for derailing the thread. I am truly sorry.

[aboutime]

Something we should all remember with this thread, and how it has deteriorated. I believe.

Think of this line when complaining about ANY American going through this today.


"There, but for the grace of God....Go I!"

And, if that doesn't help. Try this...."The grass is always greener on the other side!"

Not trying to be disrespectful to anyone on this subject. But...we cannot forget. No matter how much WE may think others have (as in higher pay, or benefits).
THEY ARE STILL FELLOW AMERICANS.
If you are jealous of those fellow Americans being more fortunate than you.
That is YOUR PROBLEM....not theirs.

[CSM]

Something we should all remember with this thread, and how it has deteriorated. I believe.

Think of this line when complaining about ANY American going through this today.


"There, but for the grace of God....Go I!"

And, if that doesn't help. Try this...."The grass is always greener on the other side!"

Not trying to be disrespectful to anyone on this subject. But...we cannot forget. No matter how much WE may think others have (as in higher pay, or benefits).
THEY ARE STILL FELLOW AMERICANS.
If you are jealous of those fellow Americans being more fortunate than you.
That is YOUR PROBLEM....not theirs.

There is no doubt in my mind that the government (with the aid of the media) has divided the people of this nation into so many factions that it may prove beyond repair. Until the citizens of this nation band together and force our elected officials to govern as they should and as laid out in the Constitution of the United States, the fate of this country will be far worse than we can imagine.

[aboutime]

There is no doubt in my mind that the government (with the aid of the media) has divided the people of this nation into so many factions that it may prove beyond repair. Until the citizens of this nation band together and force our elected officials to govern as they should and as laid out in the Constitution of the United States, the fate of this country will be far worse than we can imagine.



CSM. Agreed 100%. Which reminds my of how fearful I am. Not about my welfare because of my age, and what I have left to live. But more for our Grandkids. We are about to have six grand kids, and I honestly worry about what their futures will be like.
The oldest just turned 11. And he isn't aware that he, and his brother, and sister, and two cousins are in more debt than I have ever been...other than in my mortgage.
How, and when do we tell them. They have to look forward to supporting other people who aren't willing to support themselves?
How does their grandfather HONESTLY tell them "I once was really proud to serve my country", but now???? How can I be proud of the people who want to destroy my country???

[CSM]

CSM. Agreed 100%. Which reminds my of how fearful I am. Not about my welfare because of my age, and what I have left to live. But more for our Grandkids. We are about to have six grand kids, and I honestly worry about what their futures will be like.
The oldest just turned 11. And he isn't aware that he, and his brother, and sister, and two cousins are in more debt than I have ever been...other than in my mortgage.
How, and when do we tell them. They have to look forward to supporting other people who aren't willing to support themselves?
How does their grandfather HONESTLY tell them "I once was really proud to serve my country", but now???? How can I be proud of the people who want to destroy my country???

Yep. I will say that there is a small glimmer of hope. There are some citizens who still believe in the Constitution and the concepts put forth by the Founding Fathers. There are some who are wise enough to dig for truth. There are some who are brave enough to stand up for rightful and moral principles, no matter the cost. I just hope there are enough who have the faith, wisdom and courage to make a difference.

[glockmail]

Well, the truth is I have two sons who are "contractors". One teaches intelligence analysis at an Army training school and the other builds electronic devices for the US Air Force on a government contract. Both have been told that they will be placed on furlough next week. That means NO PAY for the time they are not working. I know you think they deserve it but it is a concern for me. I don't know how much you think they make but I can tell you that it is far less than most teachers in my neighborhood. I do not know where you get your info either but it is not correct. How do I know for a fact that my statements about them are true? Because I am a "contactor" as well and am in the same boat. I don't know about you, but two days without pay will be a problem for most folks trying to make ends meet. A week without pay will be worse. A month will be a disaster. I clearly understand that some posters on this board don't give a crap about certain people because of the job they do. Economic discrimination, I am finding out, is as heinous as racism. My skepticism of humanity is once again confirmed. I hope those same posters find comfort and some sense of satisfaction in the dilemma facing my family. All that being said, I will mention this no more.

My dad worked as a military contractor for many years. He also drove a cab on the weekends. He also went to college at night. All at the same time.

After the recession hit my main business income took a 60% hit. Several of my clients reduced their staffs, took pay cuts, then more pay cuts. Some survived but I lost about half of them due to bankruptcies. I reduced my expenses. Got rid of my two office phone lines. Traded in my Expedition. Increased the deductible on my insurances and reduced the coverages. Take conferences on-line instead of traveling to resort destinations to them. Expanded my garden to the front yard to grow more vegetables. Sold shit on ebay. Took contract work that put me out-of-state for weeks. Since many clients are gone my business, which took 8 years to build up, is unlikely to recover fully. Ever.

In the meantime GovCo has grown and grown, and the real value of a dollar, my savings, has been eroded because of quantitative easing, so my retirement funds have essentially been stolen. GovCo workers make much more money, on average, than those working for private firms. And they retire early with generous pensions.

So again, do I think military contractors should be furloughed? Or border patrol agents? Again, no, since they are integral to a legitimate government function. But pardon me if I don't feel sorry for a park ranger, or an employee of the department of education. Or an employee of any of the other hundreds of GovCo agencies that are not mentioned in the Constitution.

[Larrymc]

My sincere apologies to Kathianne for my rather vitriolic posts and my apologies to board members for derailing the thread. I am truly sorry.Not necessary for me CSM, we've all done it, and we haven't seen the last.:salute:

[logroller]

I have to give the old-timers credit for just going about their business in spite of Congress not doing the same. Though I openly denounce the description of their actions as disobedient when its the Government that's being disobedient.

[CSM]

I have to give the old-timers credit for just going about their business in spite of Congress not doing the same. Though I openly denounce the description of their actions as disobedient when its the Government that's being disobedient.

This administration, along with the elite politicians and the media, have a penchant for treating the citizens of this country like petulant children at best or treasonous anarchists at worst. They have already stated that they view veterans as a very real threat to this country. Those WWII vets may be the physically weakest of the veterans but I choose to believe those same vets have far more moral and intestinal fortitude than the simpering clowns who denigrate them. The current rhetoric being spouted by this crop of elitists tells me that they truly think they and they alone are deigned by some higher power to lead this country. Any opposing that concept in any way are deemded a treasonous threat. The ONLY reason we have not heard the WWII vets named as traitors is because those in power KNOW that those vets are just the vanguard of a multitude of men and women who have PROVEN that they have the courage to stand up to tyranny despite the cost to life and liberty.

[Kathianne]

My sincere apologies to Kathianne for my rather vitriolic posts and my apologies to board members for derailing the thread. I am truly sorry.

Nothing to apologize for. In many ways we were having a discussion that roundabouts brought you to the point of how the government is dividing us. This was but one example and while I do feel foe your family and others hurt, there should be warnings to the government of how little good will there is from many of us without the government as our back up.