Truckers organizing to shut down America, DC for 3 days

[Jeff]

This will without a doubt cripple America, look at Walmart alone they have a 24 hour stock pile in there stores at all times so if they don't receive there shipments for a couple days they will have to shut there doors. This has been talked about for years and people just don't realize the problems a strike by the truckers will cause, no meds being delivered no Oxygen and that is just the tip of the iceberg, what is good is they are giving everyone plenty of notice so hopefully no one will be hurt bad by this short strike ( but it will certainly let DC see what is coming if they don't straighten up )




The American people are sick and tired of the corruption that is destroying America! We therefore declare a GENERAL STRIKE on the weekend of October 11-13, 2013! Truck drivers will not haul freight! Americans can strike in solidarity with truck drivers! Workers will call in sick! Consumers will not buy or sell anything on this date! Stay home! Buy nothing!



http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/09/18/truckers-organizing-to-shut-down-america-dc-for-3-days-83628

[Gaffer]

I fully support this. It's time for the confrontations to start.

[Larrymc]

This will without a doubt cripple America, look at Walmart alone they have a 24 hour stock pile in there stores at all times so if they don't receive there shipments for a couple days they will have to shut there doors. This has been talked about for years and people just don't realize the problems a strike by the truckers will cause, no meds being delivered no Oxygen and that is just the tip of the iceberg, what is good is they are giving everyone plenty of notice so hopefully no one will be hurt bad by this short strike ( but it will certainly let DC see what is coming if they don't straighten up )




http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/09/18/truckers-organizing-to-shut-down-america-dc-for-3-days-83628Save the date, i will join them in solidarity, it shouldn't be to hard to prepare for three days, i go that long without purchasing things anyway, with a cash shortage around here. Change has always come by sacrifice, this time it may only take sacrificing some simple pleasures for a short time to make a statement.

[Gaffer]

I'll do a lot of sacrificing if it gets that son of bitch out of the white house. After all he said we all need to tighten our belts and sacrifice, so we will.

This could be a non-election year October surprise.

[cadet]

I'll love it if they actually go through with this.

Uncle sam needs a nice smack of reality to the face, to realize who he works for.

[Arbo]

Sounds like a nice idea, but I doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what is expected, too many people will fear losing their jobs. Times are tough, you get fired for not doing your job, odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim.

[tailfins]

Sounds like a nice idea, but I doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what is expected, too many people will fear losing their jobs. Times are tough, you get fired for not doing your job, odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim.


A similar action played a big role in repealing the national 55 MPH speed limit. I just don't know if they have as much guts as they did about 40 years ago. The current economy is better then the 1973 recession, there's no stagflation yet.

[cadet]

Sounds like a nice idea, but I doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what is expected, too many people will fear losing their jobs. Times are tough, you get fired for not doing your job, odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim.

Revolting as a union is totally legal...
Last I checked you can't fire an entire group for it. Right?

[tailfins]

Revolting as a union is totally legal...
Last I checked you can't fire an entire group for it. Right?

Tell that to PATCO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_ (1968)

[Larrymc]

Sounds like a nice idea, but I doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what is expected, too many people will fear losing their jobs. Times are tough, you get fired for not doing your job, odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim.I drove a Tanker across country for years, and there never where an over abundance of drives, some company's may use it to cull some drivers, but many will get a pass, or maybe the crap runs for a while.

[jimnyc]

Revolting as a union is totally legal...
Last I checked you can't fire an entire group for it. Right?

Actually, they can, so long as they have the manpower to cover the work they will be behind on. UNLESS of course it's in the CBA that they are allow to stop working to go to DC and strike, which I doubt.

With that said, I support them 3000% and I hope their employers would support their cause.

[Larrymc]

A similar action played a big role in repealing the national 55 MPH speed limit. I just don't know if they have as much guts as they did about 40 years ago. The current economy is better then the 1973 recession, there's no stagflation yet.For what the younger ones may lack in guts, they make up for, in don't give a crap.:laugh:

[Gaffer]

800,000 bikers went to DC. Most have jobs and took the time off. What this country needs is a show of solidarity against the elites. A simple demonstration of what can happen if we all pull together and make demands of those that are suppose to represent us.

You will notice the media hasn't picked up on this yet. I'm sure they'll ignore it for as long as they can. As they did with the bikers in DC. We have almost a full month to go and the organizing started over a week ago. Inspired by the bikers, who put together their run in a week. This event has plenty of time to grow and people to prepare.

[Jeff]

Sounds like a nice idea, but I doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what is expected, too many people will fear losing their jobs. Times are tough, you get fired for not doing your job, odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim.

Times are very tough Arbo and with Fuel well over $4 a gallon you can bet there will be many independents there because if things don't change they will be out of work already , and when the Independents go out most companies will follow because it isn't safe to for there drivers or there equipment to be on the road , I think that is a big reason for the weekend strike, #1 not as much traffic but also many of your local trucks are off on weekends ( many work also but it is slower than a week day ) they are trying to make a statement the easiest and safest way they can, but if it doesnt work there will be real trouble, I remember the last time the Independants went out, I use to watch the ghost town formerly known as the NJ tKP , yes it was empty but if ya seen a truck coming it would usually have a sigh on the trailer something like 4 kids heading home , trying to get home safely , when these boys go out they are fighting for there lives , many have everything they have tied up in there trucks, with a good Truck costing $140,000 plus and then a trailer along with it monthly payments are very high, and if ya can't afford to run them you are in big trouble

[red state]

I'll do a lot of sacrificing if it gets that son of bitch out of the white house. After all he said we all need to tighten our belts and sacrifice, so we will.

This could be a non-election year October surprise.


AMEN, Gaffer, that SOS (literally) needs to be shown that he is not king....or even a leader (unless a leader of our demise).

It doesn't just sound like a nice idea, it IS a nice idea to strike or "call in sick a few days". The doubters can doubt all they wish...I don't doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what angry Americans are capable of or expect fellow Americans of doing. I didn't, for a minute, doubt the bikers who made their voice (ENGINES) known.

Too many people will fear losing their jobs (IF) we do nothing and if I may remind the more ignorant among us, we have much more to fear than fear itself. WE have our liberties and livelihood if we (good men) do nothing. Times are indeed tough but I don't see anyone getting fired for not doing there job by striking or (CALLING IN THAT DAY). That would bring about law suits and I'd dare say that many of the bosses are ALL for this action. Walmart and Kmart and just about everyone is doing poorly anyway so I have no doubts that they aren't for this as well. Yes, the odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim under B.O. but if we fail to do battle now....we'll simply be too weak to fight tomorrow. The enemy is burning American villages every day and we must rise up any way that we can to stop him from burning the next village.

[Gaffer]

This will show that the regular folks can do more than just vote and the elites better pay attention.

[Larrymc]

AMEN, Gaffer, that SOS (literally) needs to be shown that he is not king....or even a leader (unless a leader of our demise).

It doesn't just sound like a nice idea, it IS a nice idea to strike or "call in sick a few days". The doubters can doubt all they wish...I don't doubt the turnout will be anywhere near what angry Americans are capable of or expect fellow Americans of doing. I didn't, for a minute, doubt the bikers who made their voice (ENGINES) known.

Too many people will fear losing their jobs (IF) we do nothing and if I may remind the more ignorant among us, we have much more to fear than fear itself. WE have our liberties and livelihood if we (good men) do nothing. Times are indeed tough but I don't see anyone getting fired for not doing there job by striking or (CALLING IN THAT DAY). That would bring about law suits and I'd dare say that many of the bosses are ALL for this action. Walmart and Kmart and just about everyone is doing poorly anyway so I have no doubts that they aren't for this as well. Yes, the odds of picking up a new job quickly are pretty slim under B.O. but if we fail to do battle now....we'll simply be too weak to fight tomorrow. The enemy is burning American villages every day and we must rise up any way that we can to stop him from burning the next village. I watched proudly as the Bikers had there ride, with no way to get involved, but i have set my calendar to stay in make no purchases during that three days in solidarity.

[Larrymc]

This will without a doubt cripple America, look at Walmart alone they have a 24 hour stock pile in there stores at all times so if they don't receive there shipments for a couple days they will have to shut there doors. This has been talked about for years and people just don't realize the problems a strike by the truckers will cause, no meds being delivered no Oxygen and that is just the tip of the iceberg, what is good is they are giving everyone plenty of notice so hopefully no one will be hurt bad by this short strike ( but it will certainly let DC see what is coming if they don't straighten up )




http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/09/18/truckers-organizing-to-shut-down-america-dc-for-3-days-83628Heres a like to their Facebook page if anyone cares to follow the movement. https://www.facebook.com/truckerstoshutdownamerica

[KitchenKitten99]

I understand the frustrations and would agree to the 'buy nothing' campaign. Except this set of dates falls in the hardest time of year for our shop.

If we were to have 3 full days of people buying nothing, it will only hurt us. We're still too new to sustain that kind of hiatus.

[Larrymc]

I understand the frustrations and would agree to the 'buy nothing' campaign. Except this set of dates falls in the hardest time of year for our shop.

If we were to have 3 full days of people buying nothing, it will only hurt us. We're still too new to sustain that kind of hiatus.Perhaps supporting you local Mom & Pop should be in order, infect i would support that being one exception.

[aboutime]

I understand the frustrations and would agree to the 'buy nothing' campaign. Except this set of dates falls in the hardest time of year for our shop.

If we were to have 3 full days of people buying nothing, it will only hurt us. We're still too new to sustain that kind of hiatus.



KitchenKitten. How bout considering this. What would THREE days of power outages during a storm, hurricane, snow storm do to your business?

Granted. It probably does fall in the hardest time of the year for you. But...think about the millions of Americans who have NOTHING they can call their own...like a business, when Obama and the Democrats are just given a FREE REIN to destroy the lives of those millions???
Such a thing is DESIGNED to make such hardships become REALITY. Otherwise. Nobody will notice, and Obama won't be stopped at all.
How will that eventually destroy your business too??
Think about it. No disrespect intended here. Just the hard facts.

[Drummond]

This is another of those issues about America that I've seen no sign of being reported in the British media. A quick Google search showed nothing reflecting this from my part of the world, either ...

... EXCEPT FOR ....

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104877

Seems that news gets around, regardless. The link above reflects a debate going on in the UK about it. I thought it might prove interesting (especially if it develops further) -

[Gaffer]

This is another of those issues about America that I've seen no sign of being reported in the British media. A quick Google search showed nothing reflecting this from my part of the world, either ...

... EXCEPT FOR ....

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104877

Seems that news gets around, regardless. The link above reflects a debate going on in the UK about it. I thought it might prove interesting (especially if it develops further) -

As I said our own media is ignoring it, but in all likelihood your media will report it before ours does.

[aboutime]

This is another of those issues about America that I've seen no sign of being reported in the British media. A quick Google search showed nothing reflecting this from my part of the world, either ...

... EXCEPT FOR ....

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104877

Seems that news gets around, regardless. The link above reflects a debate going on in the UK about it. I thought it might prove interesting (especially if it develops further) -

Sir Drummond. When you really get down to the nitty gritty...so to speak. We are experiencing the same kinds of NON-REPORTING here since the Obama-Loving Media is EARNING their Pay, and never reporting anything that approaches negativity toward Obama, or the administration.
Thankfully. Congress, and Obama haven't succeeded in closing down the Internet, and preventing Intelligent...non-sheep, thinking, independently responsible Americans from learning all the details OBAMA WANTS TO KEEP HIDDEN.
If you consider it even more deeply. The lack of responsible journalism, and honest reporting is all part of the Obama-Democrat-Socialist plan to keep the People in the dark, uninformed, un-educated, and in need of endless government control that includes the govt. THINKING for the common, illiterate Americans who voted for Obama, and Democrats.
Quite SIMPLE really.

[KitchenKitten99]

KitchenKitten. How bout considering this. What would THREE days of power outages during a storm, hurricane, snow storm do to your business?

Granted. It probably does fall in the hardest time of the year for you. But...think about the millions of Americans who have NOTHING they can call their own...like a business, when Obama and the Democrats are just given a FREE REIN to destroy the lives of those millions???
Such a thing is DESIGNED to make such hardships become REALITY. Otherwise. Nobody will notice, and Obama won't be stopped at all.
How will that eventually destroy your business too??
Think about it. No disrespect intended here. Just the hard facts.

Because then we can claim under insurance. We are covered for things just like that.

Besides, if we had a power outage, our humidors can only maintain for so long without the fans running. We would probably have no air conditioning if there's no power, so the temp in the shop would go too high (we HAVE to keep it at 72 or lower). Mix high ambient air temps and no air movement in the humidors and we'd likely sprout mold which would devastate the cigars in a matter of hours, and that would be at least a $50,000 loss.

We MIGHT be able to get them out of the humidor in time and put them in other things but it would be hard with over 100 boxes.

Either way, we're covered for any kind of uncontrolled event like that. My husband is very well-versed in risks and covering our butts for anything and everything. That's why he gets paid $75+/hour as a business consultant for Fortune 300 companies.

[jimnyc]

I understand the frustrations and would agree to the 'buy nothing' campaign. Except this set of dates falls in the hardest time of year for our shop.

If we were to have 3 full days of people buying nothing, it will only hurt us. We're still too new to sustain that kind of hiatus.

This is difficult and I would feel horrible for people like yourselves who might indirectly get harmed as a result. I can't even think of any way around it off the top of my head. I just can't help but wonder about the billions and trillions that workers and business owners are being screwed out of as a result of our corrupt government. Normally I would say that's it's an extremely small price to pay in comparison to the incredible amounts on the line, but I surely don't want to diminish your business and source of income. Honestly, I'd feel the same way as you if I were a new business owner and the potential event could cause irreparable harm.

It just shows that even more people might have to be put in harms way in order to see REAL change in Washington.

[Drummond]

As I said our own media is ignoring it, but in all likelihood your media will report it before ours does.

You did indeed - I saw that.

But I wouldn't bet on our media beating yours. The bikers' protest barely got a mention over here, in fact, only one paper reported on it (that one being one of the most Conservative-friendly we have) .. and they downplayed the numbers anyway ! Most Brits are unaware it ever happened.

[Jeff]

Revolting as a union is totally legal...
Last I checked you can't fire an entire group for it. Right?

Most of the truckers that will make the trip to DC ( unless sitting in the area that weekend ) will be the independent truckers ( the same ones that went out back in the early 80's and got what they wanted ) The independent trucker owns his truck and in many cases his trailer and many have there own authority to run for who ever they want so they really have no boss other than the bank that holds the titles to there businesses, these guys are the same breed that went out in the 70's , 80's and every other time things got nasty, I watched as a union job went out( it was in a concrete company) and the teamsters can and will get as nasty as the independents , they would throw the lever on the trucks as the scabs drove them up the road causing them to dump 10 yards of concrete on the 1&9 truck route in jersey City NJ :laugh:, I watched cinder blocks get hung from bridges late at night winsheild high so they could get the driver, yes these truckers will go out and if they have to will get nasty.

As for how many will show :laugh: there where many on this very board predicting the bikers wouldn't show, but they did, and anyone that has been around Bikers or truckers know in many cases they are one in the same ( I am sure that is where this idea came from ) and the truckers that don't ride still have the steel cowboy attitude , so I believe it will be bigger than the bikers but I guess we will see.

[SassyLady]

Makes me want to go down to the highway and hitch a ride to DC with a trucker!!!

[Jeff]

Makes me want to go down to the highway and hitch a ride to DC with a trucker!!!

I don't think you would have a hard time getting a ride , just flash a smile and a pretty leg and they would be running into each other trying to be first in line :thumb:

Seriously I bet there will be some nice rigs heading that way, but I was sitting here thinking of all the truck stops close enough that will be full with trucks waiting to delivery on Monday that could make the trip,. if they all went and no one else showed you would have a few thousand trucks there at least, I am starting to wish I was still jamming gears !

[SassyLady]

I don't think you would have a hard time getting a ride , just flash a smile and a pretty leg and they would be running into each other trying to be first in line :thumb:

Seriously I bet there will be some nice rigs heading that way, but I was sitting here thinking of all the truck stops close enough that will be full with trucks waiting to delivery on Monday that could make the trip,. if they all went and no one else showed you would have a few thousand trucks there at least, I am starting to wish I was still jamming gears !

My dad was a trucker (hauled livestock) and I wish he was here. He would be the first in line ... hated politicians.

Thanks for the compliment ... I, too, wish you were jamming gears.

[KitchenKitten99]

This is difficult and I would feel horrible for people like yourselves who might indirectly get harmed as a result. I can't even think of any way around it off the top of my head. I just can't help but wonder about the billions and trillions that workers and business owners are being screwed out of as a result of our corrupt government. Normally I would say that's it's an extremely small price to pay in comparison to the incredible amounts on the line, but I surely don't want to diminish your business and source of income. Honestly, I'd feel the same way as you if I were a new business owner and the potential event could cause irreparable harm.

It just shows that even more people might have to be put in harms way in order to see REAL change in Washington.


The state of MN makes more than we do on our business. Their tobacco tax rate on cigars is 95%, but there is a $3.50/stick max cap.

For the amount the state makes on our business with tobacco and sales tax, we could employ 2 full time employees with benefits and still take income for ourselves.

The fed gov't isn't as meddlesome as the state is.

[Abbey Marie]

I'll do a lot of sacrificing if it gets that son of bitch out of the white house. After all he said we all need to tighten our belts and sacrifice, so we will.

This could be a non-election year October surprise.

Why Gaffer, are you racist? ;)

[Abbey Marie]

I understand the frustrations and would agree to the 'buy nothing' campaign. Except this set of dates falls in the hardest time of year for our shop.

If we were to have 3 full days of people buying nothing, it will only hurt us. We're still too new to sustain that kind of hiatus.

Perhaps people will stock up in the days beforehand, and buy more after as well. Making for a net zero change in sales

[Jeff]

My dad was a trucker (hauled livestock) and I wish he was here. He would be the first in line ... hated politicians.

Thanks for the compliment ... I, too, wish you were jamming gears.

Your dad was a real trucker , chicken haulers and Bull Haulers where the real deals , the ultimate steel cowboys , down here is the south the company I ran for was considered cowboy truckers( another words hand in legal paper work and no one cared how ya did it, the only care was making $$$) so yes I ran Balls to the wall and usually wound up running the front door for a Bull Hauler or a chicken hauler because both of them where so time sensitive ( the chicken Hauler use to sit around all day waiting to get loaded then have to run like a raped ape to get to his destination on time, a Bull Hauler was caring livestock that if he didn't get them off the truck soon they would over heat and die and a dead delivery didn't pay anything ) So you can be very proud of your dad his type is well respected on the road, when I would bring it down the road hard and someone yelled bull Hauler in the hammer lane it was a compliment and when they saw me pass them and realized I was a freight Hauler it was all that much better :2up:

[fj1200]

I'm against anything that makes us look like the French.

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2008/06/20080609elpepuint_8.jpg

[tailfins]

I'm against anything that makes us look like the French.

This will make you feel better then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EnJEeHND_lQ#t=1

[Jeff]

This will make you feel better then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EnJEeHND_lQ#t=1

They where great trucks I hates when they quit making the Cab overs and now they are done making the 379 Pete man what is this world coming to :laugh:

Convoy what a great Movie, I still have to test the strength of the speakers when the song comes on

[SassyLady]

Your dad was a real trucker , chicken haulers and Bull Haulers where the real deals , the ultimate steel cowboys , down here is the south the company I ran for was considered cowboy truckers( another words hand in legal paper work and no one cared how ya did it, the only care was making $$$) so yes I ran Balls to the wall and usually wound up running the front door for a Bull Hauler or a chicken hauler because both of them where so time sensitive ( the chicken Hauler use to sit around all day waiting to get loaded then have to run like a raped ape to get to his destination on time, a Bull Hauler was caring livestock that if he didn't get them off the truck soon they would over heat and die and a dead delivery didn't pay anything ) So you can be very proud of your dad his type is well respected on the road, when I would bring it down the road hard and someone yelled bull Hauler in the hammer lane it was a compliment and when they saw me pass them and realized I was a freight Hauler it was all that much better :2up:

I can remember riding with him one time and crossing a narrow bridge with another truck coming at us. He moved over so far that he lost the passenger mirror and I thought we were going over the side of the bridge. The only time I ever rode with him. One time he did end up in a wreck and losing some of the cattle. Trailer turned over during the wreck. He was OK but what a mess.

He's the one that taught me how to drive responsibly around trucks. I love to drive at night when there isn't that much traffic and it seems it's just me and the truckers on that 1,000 mile trip to Tucson.

I sure hope this strike happens. This government needs to know that they cannot continue this way.

5586

[logroller]

They where great trucks I hates when they quit making the Cab overs and now they are done making the 379 Pete man what is this world coming to :laugh:

Convoy what a great Movie, I still have to test the strength of the speakers when the song comes on
Convoy is a great song. One time a friend of mine had a trucker tracks bootleg tape that had a song DOT...motherfuckers. Needless to say, it was great. Enjoy: http://youtu.be/zMq7RRzZX18

[red states rule]

So we have a bunch of pissed off people who are angry over what? Obama? The cost of the fuel they have to buy for their trucks?

So they plan to piss off more people by preventing them from getting to work so they can pay their bills?

Or try to shut down businesses so the workers can lose a few days of pay?

Yea, that will win people over to their cause

[Jeff]

So we have a bunch of pissed off people who are angry over what? Obama? The cost of the fuel they have to buy for their trucks?

So they plan to piss off more people by preventing them from getting to work so they can pay their bills?

Or try to shut down businesses so the workers can lose a few days of pay?

Yea, that will win people over to their cause

Red you know I agree with you with most things but we are at a disagreement here buddy , the truckers are planning this for a weekend trying to make it as easy as they can on all and lets not forget once they run these guys out of work you will deal with the Government backed companies such as Swift, JB Hunt ect.... they usually deliver a couple days late if they make it with out wrecking, A couple days of inconvenience is worth what the truckers do for you, hell I remember one night I spoke to you on the phone , it was snowing like a , well real hard you called to see what 81 looked like you where trying to get home, me I had another 7 hours on my ride in that snow, and I had left 9 hours before hand, yes when yall are home sleeping I was out running balls to the walls to make sure to keep your business going , so if yall can't be inconvenienced for a day or so that is just what the truckers are fighting against

[Jeff]

Convoy is a great song. One time a friend of mine had a trucker tracks bootleg tape that had a song DOT...motherfuckers. Needless to say, it was great. Enjoy: http://youtu.be/zMq7RRzZX18

Great tune Log, I use to have some bootleg music in the truck and a CB refereed to on the Highway as BIG RADIO ( I would key up and step on everyone ) and I would play these songs plus a bunch of old David Allen Coe music ( I am sure yall have heard that music:laugh: ) just to keep people awake at night ( heck a good argument kept people awake, the threats of death always turned into Laughs by the time it was over, yes David was rather colorful to say the least )

[jimnyc]

The state of MN makes more than we do on our business. Their tobacco tax rate on cigars is 95%, but there is a $3.50/stick max cap.

For the amount the state makes on our business with tobacco and sales tax, we could employ 2 full time employees with benefits and still take income for ourselves.

The fed gov't isn't as meddlesome as the state is.

Oh, I know where you're coming from. While I have no business interest, I know all about the taxes. I believe NYS taxes on tobacco are the highest in the nation.

[Noir]

I really don't get the idea behind this - like okay you've decided not to by anything for 3 days, does that mean that just prior to this you've stocked up on 3 days worth of pop and chips and whatever else you'll want for the three days you're not able to buy anything?

Surly that leads to a net loss of nothing =/

[jimnyc]

I really don't get the idea behind this - like okay you've decided not to by anything for 3 days, does that mean that just prior to this you've stocked up on 3 days worth of pop and chips and whatever else you'll want for the three days you're not able to buy anything?

Surly that leads to a net loss of nothing =/

People are willing to "suffer", or take a loss, to remind the government who truly is in charge. It would cause a MAJOR disruption throughout the country if the truckers successfully stopped for a few days. People ignore the truckers on the road, but they account for SO much of things getting around. And while some people may take a hit during the "strike", so would the government via loss of taxes.

The lesson and reminder to OUR government turns that net loss/gain into a win/win for the people, or we would hope.

Our government has become self sufficient and seem to think they can be their own little country anymore, and they're forgetting the whole process of how they actually work for us, and if we all band together, we can do more "harm" to them. Things like this need to be done more often - but more importantly, to make them hear us, we need to vote out about 98.23% of them and get people in there that actually DO want to work for the people, and not more so for their parties, friends and themselves.

[fj1200]

^Government won't notice.

[Arbo]

^Government won't notice.

Hell, most citizens won't notice.

[jimnyc]

^Government won't notice.

They never do. But maybe more and more people will see things like this, learn from it - and make a difference with their votes? I saw some crazy shit about voting in the last election, so I won't get my hopes up. (I'm talking about the people interviewed that thought Obama made a great choice of Palin for his VP, free gas and phones...)

[jimnyc]

Hell, most citizens won't notice.

I think it's growing. Citizens took notice with the bikers going to DC. Hell, just the bikers alone, over 800,000, was a lot of notice, and I know it finally got a decent amount of coverage. It wasn't covered much at first, hell it was likely even purposely ignored, but some had no choice to but to pay attention when so many bikers inundated the area and made it impossible NOT to see them. I think that's kind of the idea with the truckers, to get noticed.

[fj1200]

Hell, most citizens won't notice.

The ones that do will be mad at the truckers and demand government do something.


They never do. But maybe more and more people will see things like this, learn from it - and make a difference with their votes? I saw some crazy shit about voting in the last election, so I won't get my hopes up. (I'm talking about the people interviewed that thought Obama made a great choice of Palin for his VP, free gas and phones...)

I just don't see the connection between truckers and corruption in DC. Sure, they're protesting but so did the Occupiers and last I checked the 1%ers were doing even better.

[Larrymc]

I really don't get the idea behind this - like okay you've decided not to by anything for 3 days, does that mean that just prior to this you've stocked up on 3 days worth of pop and chips and whatever else you'll want for the three days you're not able to buy anything?

Surly that leads to a net loss of nothing =/Your right but I think the point is not so much to hurt anyone, its to show the powers that be that the American people can come together, and we are tired of the BS in Washington.

[jimnyc]

I just don't see the connection between truckers and corruption in DC. Sure, they're protesting but so did the Occupiers and last I checked the 1%ers were doing even better.

It's an indirect connection, as they're people just like you and I, voters even - and people who help keep our country running smoothly. Will it be successful instantly? Probably not. But it IS possible that things like this will start putting the people together more and more, as Americans, and vote out these nitwits to help build a better country.

[Gaffer]

In the most recent past most demonstrations have been left wing idiots raising all kinds of hell to get themselves noticed. The squeaky wheel so to speak. It's part of rules for radicals. So now it's our turn. But it's not a bunch of drugged up idiots that don't even know what they are protesting about. This time it's mainstream Americans getting loud and in your face. It will not affect washington. It will get their attention and scare a few of those that don't have a huge solid liberal base of losers to vote for them.

This is really the only thing left for the regular Joe's to regain control of congress. If this fails we will have to start reforming the Minutemen.

[fj1200]

It's an indirect connection, as they're people just like you and I, voters even - and people who help keep our country running smoothly. Will it be successful instantly? Probably not. But it IS possible that things like this will start putting the people together more and more, as Americans, and vote out these nitwits to help build a better country.

Here's to hopin' then. :beer:

:)

[Abbey Marie]

I really don't get the idea behind this - like okay you've decided not to by anything for 3 days, does that mean that just prior to this you've stocked up on 3 days worth of pop and chips and whatever else you'll want for the three days you're not able to buy anything?

Surly that leads to a net loss of nothing =/

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43116-Truckers-organizing-to-shut-down-America-DC-for-3-days&p=665817#post665817

[Arbo]

I think it's growing. Citizens took notice with the bikers going to DC. Hell, just the bikers alone, over 800,000, was a lot of notice, and I know it finally got a decent amount of coverage. It wasn't covered much at first, hell it was likely even purposely ignored, but some had no choice to but to pay attention when so many bikers inundated the area and made it impossible NOT to see them. I think that's kind of the idea with the truckers, to get noticed.

I would like to think the apathy is going away, but I don't think it is. Yes, anyone that pays attention to the news heard about the bikers, the problem is it seems a large part of our population is suck on lifetime movies and whatever trash is on MTV and doesn't pay attention to any sort of news, unless it has to do with people in hollywood.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

People are willing to "suffer", or take a loss, to remind the government who truly is in charge. It would cause a MAJOR disruption throughout the country if the truckers successfully stopped for a few days. People ignore the truckers on the road, but they account for SO much of things getting around. And while some people may take a hit during the "strike", so would the government via loss of taxes.

The lesson and reminder to OUR government turns that net loss/gain into a win/win for the people, or we would hope.

Our government has become self sufficient and seem to think they can be their own little country anymore, and they're forgetting the whole process of how they actually work for us, and if we all band together, we can do more "harm" to them. Things like this need to be done more often - but more importantly, to make them hear us, we need to vote out about 98.23% of them and get people in there that actually DO want to work for the people, and not more so for their parties, friends and themselves. Something bad wrong with the election system if people have to create large scale protests to get results. That points to some large scale corruption in the voting system. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Something bad wrong with the election system if people have to create large scale protests to get results. That points to some large scale corruption in the voting system. -Tyr

No, it just means that the minority who doesn't like their lot has to be that much louder to hope for any enactment of change. Unless of course you're willing to grant the same logic to the Occupiers.

[Jeff]

^Government won't notice.
if the truckers don't make no process with this weekend deal and decide to go out I promise you the Government will know

Hell, most citizens won't notice.
Read above and then remember stores like Walmart have a stock of 24 hours of perishable foods , you really don't think people will notice

[Jeff]

I really don't get the idea behind this - like okay you've decided not to by anything for 3 days, does that mean that just prior to this you've stocked up on 3 days worth of pop and chips and whatever else you'll want for the three days you're not able to buy anything?

Surly that leads to a net loss of nothing =/

Noir people will get by with only 3 days but it will also show the Country just what would happen if the truckers decide to sit out for a bit, think about it there is nothing that doesn't get trucked, the worse part is the people that will suffer do to no medicine's being delivered no Oxygen and stuff like that , this is a kind of show of force to let DC know what can happen

[Jeff]

Yup no one will notice :laugh: we now have truck stops offering free fuel if ya show a picture of your truck at DC, yes the likes on FB has went up to 67,000 now( in 3 days ) and Canadian truckers are willing to go out as well to support there American brothers and sisters . Also it looks like main stream media is starting to pick up on this story starting with Fox of course .




Three days after I wrote about the march, the site has garnered over 67,000 likes and new developments have arisen that could only have happened due to the overwhelming support for our hard working truck driving friends. Many Americans are supporting the 18 wheel drivers rolling to DC by pledging to boycott those three days by staying home and avoiding all money transactions for those days. But, individuals are not the only ones who have come out in support of this endeavor. A few members with Indiana Overpass for Obama's Impeachment are offering to pay for hotel rooms and a meal or two for the truckers. A truck stop in Baton Rouge, LA is offering 50 gallons of free fuel to the first 20 truckers that come by their establishment with pictures showing their rig in DC during those three days. There has even been a post from a man in Germany, written in German, supporting the million trucker march to DC. Truck drivers are posting pictures of themselves with their trucks and indicating whether they will shut down and stay home or shut down for the drive to DC.



http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/09/1-million-truckers-protest-now-joined-canadian-counterparts/

[Arbo]

Read above and then remember stores like Walmart have a stock of 24 hours of perishable foods , you really don't think people will notice

No, they are doing it on a weekend, not normal stocking time for most places. I doubt there will be a big deal.

[red states rule]

Red you know I agree with you with most things but we are at a disagreement here buddy , the truckers are planning this for a weekend trying to make it as easy as they can on all and lets not forget once they run these guys out of work you will deal with the Government backed companies such as Swift, JB Hunt ect.... they usually deliver a couple days late if they make it with out wrecking, A couple days of inconvenience is worth what the truckers do for you, hell I remember one night I spoke to you on the phone , it was snowing like a , well real hard you called to see what 81 looked like you where trying to get home, me I had another 7 hours on my ride in that snow, and I had left 9 hours before hand, yes when yall are home sleeping I was out running balls to the walls to make sure to keep your business going , so if yall can't be inconvenienced for a day or so that is just what the truckers are fighting against

Then we have to agree to disagree Jeff.

If you are talking about corporate welfare - I agree get with it. Get rid of the current tax code and go with a flat tax. NO deductions and no exemptions. Libs rant about fairness - then lets have EVERYONE chip in

BTW, are these truckers union members? If so I wonder how many voted for the current clown in the Oval Office?

What you may call an inconvenience I call a car payment, or rent money. Either way, the little folks get screwed over while some feel very good about themselves

[Jeff]

No, they are doing it on a weekend, not normal stocking time for most places. I doubt there will be a big deal.

Walmart stocks 7 days a week 365 a year , they hold enough perishable food for 24 hours , I delivered there for years ,. but if you know better OK :poke:

[Jeff]

Then we have to agree to disagree Jeff.

If you are talking about corporate welfare - I agree get with it. Get rid of the current tax code and go with a flat tax. NO deductions and no exemptions. Libs rant about fairness - then lets have EVERYONE chip in

BTW, are these truckers union members? If so I wonder how many voted for the current clown in the Oval Office?

What you may call an inconvenience I call a car payment, or rent money. Either way, the little folks get screwed over while some feel very good about themselves

Red I truly believe they are doing this for no other reason than to show Obama they can and will unite . 3 days wont hurt much and if ya use your head you will just get a extra loaf of bread and top your gas tank off ( and they aren't closing all the stores they are asking the public to help show the Gov. we can stand together

As far as Unions some maybe but I am thinking you will have mostly Independent truckers ( owner operators ) that can run under there own authority

As for car payments brother if 3 days on a weekend is going to cause you to go bust you are in ruff shape, ( I know that isn't the case ) but if we don't get DC in some kind of shape you won't be able to afford those car payments soon anyway


In closing the truckers are trying to do this when it will inconvience the least amount of people , they ask people to not buy things just to show the Gov. we can all stand together ( and yes you can buy 3 days worth of goods the day before , no one is asking anyone to go hungry ) but once DC knows we can and will stick together then we have something to bargain with

[red states rule]

Red I truly believe they are doing this for no other reason than to show Obama they can and will unite . 3 days wont hurt much and if ya use your head you will just get a extra loaf of bread and top your gas tank off ( and they aren't closing all the stores they are asking the public to help show the Gov. we can stand together

As far as Unions some maybe but I am thinking you will have mostly Independent truckers ( owner operators ) that can run under there own authority

As for car payments brother if 3 days on a weekend is going to cause you to go bust you are in ruff shape, ( I know that isn't the case ) but if we don't get DC in some kind of shape you won't be able to afford those car payments soon anyway


In closing the truckers are trying to do this when it will inconvience the least amount of people , they ask people to not buy things just to show the Gov. we can all stand together ( and yes you can buy 3 days worth of goods the day before , no one is asking anyone to go hungry ) but once DC knows we can and will stick together then we have something to bargain with

Jeff, the only time Obama would pay attention is if the truckers for stopping people from cast a vote for him. Otherwise he does give a shit about anyone

As far the weekend, if I am working on a weekend it for OT. And yea, a days worth of OT is a rather large sum of money for me

Jeff, as of now I have my ret and car paid until December 01. How did I do that? My working my ass off and taking as many hours a possible. So the last thing I need is people preventing me from earning a living. Regardless of their reasons

The only time I have time to shop is on the weekend. I have already done my laundry and been to Wal Mart this morning.

[Gaffer]

Jeff, the only time Obama would pay attention is if the truckers for stopping people from cast a vote for him. Otherwise he does give a shit about anyone

As far the weekend, if I am working on a weekend it for OT. And yea, a days worth of OT is a rather large sum of money for me

Jeff, as of now I have my ret and car paid until December 01. How did I do that? My working my ass off and taking as many hours a possible. So the last thing I need is people preventing me from earning a living. Regardless of their reasons

The only time I have time to shop is on the weekend. I have already done my laundry and been to Wal Mart this morning.

Red we all realize that the dark one is not worried about what the truckers do, or anyone else for that matter. He's safely tucked away in his protective shell and never sees the real world. But it's not him this strike is aimed at. It's aimed at both houses of congress. To tell the fools there that we are aware of what they are doing and we are watching and their jobs are on the line. It's a chance for that 70% of the population that don't want obamacare to stand up and show that they really do exist.

A few people will be inconvenienced and some will be mad. That's nothing compared to what's coming down the pike in the next few years. You want to see an end to this administration and all the corruption, tolerate a little inconvenience. The next shut down will be a whole lot worse.

History repeating itself? See Poland 1980's.

[red states rule]

Red we all realize that the dark one is not worried about what the truckers do, or anyone else for that matter. He's safely tucked away in his protective shell and never sees the real world. But it's not him this strike is aimed at. It's aimed at both houses of congress. To tell the fools there that we are aware of what they are doing and we are watching and their jobs are on the line. It's a chance for that 70% of the population that don't want obamacare to stand up and show that they really do exist.

A few people will be inconvenienced and some will be mad. That's nothing compared to what's coming down the pike in the next few years. You want to see an end to this administration and all the corruption, tolerate a little inconvenience. The next shut down will be a whole lot worse.

History repeating itself? See Poland 1980's.

Gaffer I would rather see these folks join us, and put this effort into the upcoming elections

Register to vote. Get others registers. Attend rallies and bring people with them to those rallies

Turn out of election day and bring people with them to the polls

THEN they will attract the attention of the those in DC and then they will listen to what they have to say

[Larrymc]

Jeff, the only time Obama would pay attention is if the truckers for stopping people from cast a vote for him. Otherwise he does give a shit about anyone

As far the weekend, if I am working on a weekend it for OT. And yea, a days worth of OT is a rather large sum of money for me

Jeff, as of now I have my ret and car paid until December 01. How did I do that? My working my ass off and taking as many hours a possible. So the last thing I need is people preventing me from earning a living. Regardless of their reasons

The only time I have time to shop is on the weekend. I have already done my laundry and been to Wal Mart this morning.Red i have to agree with Jeff, In America throughout history change has only come but citizens pulling together and sacrificing, Just like shutting down the Government im on disability and my Benefits would be the first thing to go, but i have been behind shutting it down every time, like i explained to my wife, things may get pretty rough, but we are at a point where something has to break, letting the Government shut down may be hitting the reset button for this country.

[red states rule]

Red i have to agree with Jeff, In America throughout history change has only come but citizens pulling together and sacrificing, Just like shutting down the Government im on disability and my Benefits would be the first thing to go, but i have been behind shutting it down every time, like i explained to my wife, things may get pretty rough, but we are at a point where something has to break, letting the Government shut down may be hitting the reset button for this country.

We can agree to disagree

Stopping people from earning a living and business owners from doing business is not the way to go

This reminds me of the OWS idiots BTW

But without the violence, drug use, rapes, and destruction of property. But it will have the same outcome. It will accomplish nothing

[Larrymc]

Gaffer I would rather see these folks join us, and put this effort into the upcoming elections

Register to vote. Get others registers. Attend rallies and bring people with them to those rallies

Turn out of election day and bring people with them to the polls

THEN they will attract the attention of the those in DC and then they will listen to what they have to sayAll great ideas, but its been done, to many fell there vote doesn't count and all efforts to get them to the polls has failed, and voter fraud is rampant, so the ones that truly care, and are willing to take a stand must find a way to do it without those complacent voters, and bypass the voter fraud.

[red states rule]

All great ideas, but its been done, to many fell there vote doesn't count and all efforts to get them to the polls has failed, and voter fraud is rampant, so the ones that truly care, and are willing to take a stand must find a way to do it without those complacent voters, and bypass the voter fraud.

Larry, they are the same excuses about 4 MILLION Republicans used to justify staying home in the last election

If they would have got off their ass, stopped with the temper tantrum, and voted - PERHAPS Obama would be back in Chicago as a private citizen and liberal community agitator

However, staging a public temper tantrum and disputing free trade is not the way to do it

[Arbo]

Larry, they are the same excuses about 4 MILLION Republicans used to justify staying home in the last election

If they would have got off their ass, stopped with the temper tantrum, and voted - PERHAPS Obama would be back in Chicago as a private citizen and liberal community agitator

However, staging a public temper tantrum and disputing free trade is not the way to do it

Or if the (R)'s would find and put up a good candidate...

[Larrymc]

Larry, they are the same excuses about 4 MILLION Republicans used to justify staying home in the last election

If they would have got off their ass, stopped with the temper tantrum, and voted - PERHAPS Obama would be back in Chicago as a private citizen and liberal community agitator

However, staging a public temper tantrum and disputing free trade is not the way to do itIMO voter fraud more than complacent voters put Obama back in Office, but your right if those people would get off there butts and vote especially in the representatives elections much could be done, but until the Electoral Vote is abolished, as i said before that is a lost cause, So considering that we can't ignite those voters anytime soon, and at this point can't rely on a fair election What Would Your Suggest??

[tailfins]

IMO voter fraud more than complacent voters put Obama back in Office, but your right if those people would get off there butts and vote especially in the representatives elections much could be done, but until the Electoral Vote is abolished, as i said before that is a lost cause, So considering that we can't ignite those voters anytime soon, and at this point can't rely on a fair election What Would Your Suggest??

Whoa! Hold the phone! The Electoral College is a good idea. It isolates ballot box stuffing. The Democrats can get 150% of the popular vote in Pennsylvania, but it doesn't get them a single electoral vote more than 51% would.

[Arbo]

Whoa! Hold the phone! The Electoral College is a good idea. It isolates ballot box stuffing. The Democrats can get 150% of the popular vote in Pennsylvania, but it doesn't get them a single electoral vote more than 51% would.

Agreed. Removing the EC would put us down to mob rule. And when most of the citizens are dependent on government, that's a BAD BAD thing. It's already bad, but would get much worse much quicker.

[Larrymc]

Whoa! Hold the phone! The Electoral College is a good idea. It isolates ballot box stuffing. The Democrats can get 150% of the popular vote in Pennsylvania, but it doesn't get them a single electoral vote more than 51% would. election fraud is rampant, and should be seriously addressed, but IMO we will never have a true vote of the people with the Electoral College. Its the single most used excuse to not vote.

[Gaffer]

election fraud is rampant, and should be seriously addressed, but IMO we will never have a true vote of the people with the Electoral College. Its the single most used excuse to not vote.

I respectfully disagree with you on this. We do not have a democracy in this country. We have a republic. The electoral college it what makes us different from every other country. Without it we would have have had algore as president instead of Bush. That would have been a nightmare to equal the current one.

Any electoral fraud is done at the voting box, not on the electoral level. The one with the most popular votes in a state gets the electoral votes for that state. Without the electoral college you might as well let only the big cities vote and the rural areas have no say.

[Larrymc]

I respectfully disagree with you on this. We do not have a democracy in this country. We have a republic. The electoral college it what makes us different from every other country. Without it we would have have had algore as president instead of Bush. That would have been a nightmare to equal the current one.

Any electoral fraud is done at the voting box, not on the electoral level. The one with the most popular votes in a state gets the electoral votes for that state. Without the electoral college you might as well let only the big cities vote and the rural areas have no say.I understand the idea is to give every state equal weight, but how can it be fair if, a small state with say (Just Off The Wall #s) Hundreds of thousands votes has the same weight as Millions in other states, Now i agree Algore would have been a nightmare, but i also think his getting the popular vote brings us back to voter fraud, but this an issue were folks like you and i have an opinion that's not likely to change.

[Arbo]

I understand the idea is to give every state equal weight, but how can it be fair if, a small state with say (Just Off The Wall #s) Hundreds of thousands votes has the same weight as Millions in other states, Now i agree Algore would have been a nightmare, but i also think his getting the popular vote brings us back to voter fraud, but this an issue were folks like you and i have an opinion that's not likely to change.


Because every state is supposed to have a somewhat equal say. What happens when the most populace states start voting to take resources from the 'little' states, and there is no recourse? Unacceptable. It's bad enough on a state level where bit cities screw over the rural parts of any given state.

[Larrymc]

Because every state is supposed to have a somewhat equal say. What happens when the most populace states start voting to take resources from the 'little' states, and there is no recourse? Unacceptable. It's bad enough on a state level where bit cities screw over the rural parts of any given state.I don't really get what you mean about Big City's vs Small ones, But I believe we were talking about Presidential elections?

[Arbo]

I don't really get what you mean about Big City's vs Small ones, But I believe we were talking about Presidential elections?

It is what happens on a state level, that would happen on a federal level if we got rid of the EC. High population areas would be free to ride roughshod over the low population areas.

[fj1200]

IMO voter fraud more than complacent voters put Obama back in Office, but your right if those people would get off there butts and vote especially in the representatives elections much could be done, but until the Electoral Vote is abolished, as i said before that is a lost cause, So considering that we can't ignite those voters anytime soon, and at this point can't rely on a fair election What Would Your Suggest??

You have evidence of voter fraud in excess of 5 million votes? Winning elections comes down to having a better candidate who can do a better job of getting the message out and educating on why conservatism is better.


election fraud is rampant, and should be seriously addressed, but IMO we will never have a true vote of the people with the Electoral College. Its the single most used excuse to not vote.

We purposely don't have a "true vote of the people" for exactly the reasons that you attempt to justify.

[Larrymc]

It is what happens on a state level, that would happen on a federal level if we got rid of the EC. High population areas would be free to ride roughshod over the low population areas.In a Presidential election without EC the more populated areas would have more say in who becomes President simply because there's more people!!! Still don't know how that would impact state issues?

[fj1200]

In a Presidential election without EC the more populated areas would have more say in who becomes President simply because there's more people!!! Still don't know how that would impact state issues?

Um, the people don't elect the POTUS, the States do. And basic math is going to say that higher populations are going to have a greater share of the say.

[Larrymc]

You have evidence of voter fraud in excess of 5 million votes? Winning elections comes down to having a better candidate who can do a better job of getting the message out and educating on why conservatism is better.



We purposely don't have a "true vote of the people" for exactly the reasons that you attempt to justify.Im sorry not sure, what you are saying?

[fj1200]

Im sorry not sure, what you are saying?

You claim voter fraud elected BO but he won by 5mm votes; surely some evidence is out there. I'm not sure how the rest is unclear. :dunno:

[red states rule]

Here is one trucking song I always enjoy listening to



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ElCpHuiWkA

[red states rule]

In a Presidential election without EC the more populated areas would have more say in who becomes President simply because there's more people!!! Still don't know how that would impact state issues?

Correct. Every Presidential election would be decided by about 12 liberal states

Of course libs like FU see nothing wrong with that Larry. After all one of the foundations of liberalism is that libs know what is best for everyone else

[Larrymc]

Um, the people don't elect the POTUS, the States do. And basic math is going to say that higher populations are going to have a greater share of the say.That's right States do with the EC, that's what the conversation is about, doing away with the EC to let the people elect the President.

[red states rule]

That's right States do with the EC, that's what the conversation is about, doing away with the EC to let the people elect the President.

I noticed that the left screamed to have the EC done away with after the 2000 and 2004 elections

But had no issues with it since

It is amazing how firm the convictions and core beliefs of liberals really are

[Arbo]

Correct. Every Presidential election would be decided by about 12 liberal states

Of course libs like FU see nothing wrong with that Larry. After all one of the foundations of liberalism is that libs know what is best for everyone else

Except that FJ is arguing against this. It is others that are arguing for such a system by removing the EC. FAIL.

[fj1200]

Correct. Every Presidential election would be decided by about 12 liberal states

Of course libs like FU see nothing wrong with that Larry. After all one of the foundations of liberalism is that libs know what is best for everyone else

WTF are you talking about? So you have a problem with the Constitutional method of electing the POTUS? If you want a refresher on the Constitution I'll happily provide it to you, just ask.

[fj1200]

That's right States do with the EC, that's what the conversation is about, doing away with the EC to let the people elect the President.

At least we got that straightened out. But I don't want the people to elect the POTUS, I want the States to elect the POTUS. Just like I want the 17th repealed so the States will again have representation in Congress.

[fj1200]

I noticed that the left screamed to have the EC done away with after the 2000 and 2004 elections

But had no issues with it since

It is amazing how firm the convictions and core beliefs of liberals really are

So you were for the EC in 2000 and against it now? Firm beliefs indeed. :rolleyes:

[Larrymc]

You claim voter fraud elected BO but he won by 5mm votes; surely some evidence is out there. I'm not sure how the rest is unclear. :dunno:There have always been voter fraud, I don't even think a voter ID will completely solve the problem. but it would go a long way in cutting back on it, But the Democrats fight that with all they got, "Wonder Why":dunno: the best argument they can come up with in is undue hardship on Who Else? the poor and elderly which is ridicules, unless you live in a tent some were and live off the land you need an ID to function is this country.
http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

[fj1200]

There have always been voter fraud, I don't even think a voter ID will completely solve the problem. but it would go a long way in cutting back on it, But the Democrats fight that with all they got, "Wonder Why":dunno: the best argument they can come up with in is undue hardship on Who Else? the poor and elderly which is ridicules, unless you live in a tent some were and live off the land you need an ID to function is this country.
http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

I don't disagree with that, I'll certainly take some voter ID, but I disagree that there is enough fraud that will sway the elections in a meaningful way. I will certainly grant you that Dems always seem to find enough votes when it comes down to it in a close election but most elections are not that close. And the EC IMO would isolate fraud in one state from swaying a popular vote type election.

[Arbo]

I don't disagree with that, I'll certainly take some voter ID, but I disagree that there is enough fraud that will sway the elections in a meaningful way. I will certainly grant you that Dems always seem to find enough votes when it comes down to it in a close election but most elections are not that close. And the EC IMO would isolate fraud in one state from swaying a popular vote type election.

I wish we had a better take on how much fraud there is. I know I read the reports of over 100% turnout in some places, as well as the reports of not one vote that wasn't for obama in some districts. The odds of such things are next to zero, so there is some fishy crap going on for sure.

[fj1200]

I wish we had a better take on how much fraud there is. I know I read the reports of over 100% turnout in some places, as well as the reports of not one vote that wasn't for obama in some districts. The odds of such things are next to zero, so there is some fishy crap going on for sure.

I agree on getting a better understanding and anything over 100% is an automatic red flag, I don't recall seeing those reports though, but 100% for BO is not surprising if you look at the makeup of the population there. I would like someone to secretly tape one of those precincts for how many walk in vs. how many votes are counted.

[Larrymc]

I wish we had a better take on how much fraud there is. I know I read the reports of over 100% turnout in some places, as well as the reports of not one vote that wasn't for obama in some districts. The odds of such things are next to zero, so there is some fishy crap going on for sure.Thank you just when i had about lost faith in you.:laugh:

[Larrymc]

At least we got that straightened out. But I don't want the people to elect the POTUS, I want the States to elect the POTUS. Just like I want the 17th repealed so the States will again have representation in Congress.States don't have representatives in Congress?

[Arbo]

States don't have representatives in Congress?

The system was set up so the state selected it's senators, and the people selected their congressmen. A balance between the desires of the people and the states. The 17th amendment did away with that by moving the decision on senators to the people.

So you end up with the state legislators pretty much having zero say (influence) in the federal legislature, which is what has allowed the fed's to trample over states rights, over and over again.

[fj1200]

Thank you just when i had about lost faith in you.:laugh:

Don't be swayed by those who have a vendetta. ;)


States don't have representatives in Congress?

No, not at least as designed...


The system was set up so the state selected it's senators, and the people selected their congressmen. A balance between the desires of the people and the states. The 17th amendment did away with that by moving the decision on senators to the people.

So you end up with the state legislators pretty much having zero say (influence) in the federal legislature, which is what has allowed the fed's to trample over states rights, over and over again.

Though many states had already ceded their right to popular election the 17th made it mandatory.


Kochan (2003) p.1053 Donald J. Kochan, for an article in the Albany Law Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany_Law_Review), analyzed the effect of the Seventeenth Amendment on Supreme Court decisions over the constitutionality of state legislation. He found a "statistically significant difference" in the number of cases holding state legislation unconstitutional before and after the passage of the Seventeenth Amendment, with the number of holdings of unconstitutionality increasing sixfold. Besides the 17th Amendment, decline in the influence of the states also followed economic changes. Zywicki observes that interest groups of all kinds began to focus efforts on the federal government, as national issues could not be directed by influencing only a few state legislatures of with Senators of the most seniority chairing the major committees. He attributes the rise in the strength of interest groups partially to the development of the U.S. economy on an interstate, national level. See Zywicki (1997) p.215. Ure also argues that the Seventeenth Amendment led to the rise of special interest groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Interest_Group) to fill the void; with citizens replacing state legislators as the Senate's electorate, with citizens being less able to monitor the actions of their Senators, the Senate became more susceptible to pressure from interest groups, who in turn were more influential due to the centralization of power in the federal government; an interest group no longer needed to lobby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying) many state legislatures, and could instead focus its efforts on the federal government. See Ure (2007) p.293
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constit ution

[Larrymc]

The system was set up so the state selected it's senators, and the people selected their congressmen. A balance between the desires of the people and the states. The 17th amendment did away with that by moving the decision on senators to the people.

So you end up with the state legislators pretty much having zero say (influence) in the federal legislature, which is what has allowed the fed's to trample over states rights, over and over again.Ok help me understand, the state is a separate entity from the People of said state? the state has its own agenda separate from the people?

[Arbo]

Ok help me understand, the state is a separate entity from the People of said state? the state has its own agenda separate from the people?

Does the federal government have a different agenda than a good portion of the citizens of the nation? The states are similar, just smaller. History has shown people will support the feds trampling over the rights of states, so states need their own 'representation', so the system is balanced.

[fj1200]

Ok help me understand, the state is a separate entity from the People of said state? the state has its own agenda separate from the people?

Yes, the state/legislature has different roles/responsibilities than the people. For example the Federal government wants to impose an unfunded mandate (Obamacare) on the state, the people may want said legislation because they think they're getting something but the legislature might have no way to fund said mandate. The Senators may vote on the law differently depending on whom they need to depend for reelection.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Quote Originally Posted by Larrymc View Post

States don't have representatives in Congress?
No, not at least as designed... [/URL] Each state has two Senators. They are to represent the individual state's business as well as that of the state's citizens. Yet you are right in that once elected they seem to represent only Federal and Washington interests. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Senate is both a more deliberative and more prestigious body than the House of Representatives because of it's longer terms, smaller size, and statewide constituencies, which historically led to a more collegial and less partisan atmosphere. The Senate is sometimes called the "world's greatest deliberative body."--Wiki source . Which just means that they think themselves greater gods. -Tyr

[Larrymc]

Does the federal government have a different agenda than a good portion of the citizens of the nation? The states are similar, just smaller. History has shown people will support the feds trampling over the rights of states, so states need their own 'representation', so the system is balanced.I don't claim to be a Political Scholar,so bear with me, I understand the problem with the federal Government meddling in the states affairs, but other than the Congressmen and State Seniors, for each state what do we need.

[logroller]

I don't claim to be a Political Scholar,so bear with me, I understand the problem with the federal Government meddling in the states affairs, but other than the Congressmen and State Seniors, for each state what do we need.
A populous that considers issues rather than party.

[Larrymc]

A populous that considers issues rather than party.Well were in deep on that one.

[Gaffer]

If the state governors appointed the senators as it use to be, we would have a majority of republicans in the senate and we wouldn't be in the shit hole we are now.