Possible one on one topic... poverty

[Arbo]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?

[cadet]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?

"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life."
The left just wants to keep giving that fish every day. Where the right believes that you should learn to fish.

And then there's me. Who thinks it's your damn life and you can live it as you please. If you wanna be poor, go for it. If you want to make a difference, go for it.

And I wouldn't say most. Most people have rough patches in their life. Most get out of poverty and into the middle class at some point.

The number of poor/middle class/rich persons in the US of A tend to be the same, but that doesn't account for all the people jumping between them all the time.



To put it simply, they're lazy shits that are spoon fed.

[red states rule]

http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMi02MDY0YTVkYzJjZjM5OGNh.png

[red states rule]

"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life."
The left just wants to keep giving that fish every day. Where the right believes that you should learn to fish.

And then there's me. Who thinks it's your damn life and you can live it as you please. If you wanna be poor, go for it. If you want to make a difference, go for it.

And I wouldn't say most. Most people have rough patches in their life. Most get out of poverty and into the middle class at some point.

The number of poor/middle class/rich persons in the US of A tend to be the same, but that doesn't account for all the people jumping between them all the time.



To put it simply, they're lazy shits that are spoon fed.

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1209/house-votes-funny-politics-1348294682.jpg

[Larrymc]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?Its complacency, once you learn to work the liberal system, there seems to be no reason to put fourth any extra effort, That's the main difference between the to party's, the Libs can't imagine that the poor can or even want to do better, While the right believes that with the opportunity's afforded in this country that with a little help up, and an insensitive to stand on your on, will produce a happier and more productive lower class. The Libs could care less what it cost the Country, Its Not There Money, its more about a solid Voter base.

[red states rule]

Its complacency, once you learn to work the liberal system, there seems to be no reason to put fourth any extra effort, That's the main difference between the to party's, the Libs can't imagine that the poor can or even want to do better, While the right believes that with the opportunity's afforded in this country that with a little help up, and an insensitive to stand on your on, will produce a happier and more productive lower class. The Libs could care less what it cost the Country, Its Not There Money, its more about a solid Voter base.

and considering liberals love to punish achievement - why would anyone want to work hard, accumulate wealth - just to see it taxed away and handed over to those libs consider "deserving" of it?

[fj1200]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?

Why poverty? Because government.

Let's go. :slap:

[glockmail]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?They're stupid or lazy, or for most, have found a way to milk the system.

[Trigg]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?

The "poor" in this country, get free healthcare, free food, free housing, free education and free college. There is no reason they can't pull themselves out of poverty with all the handouts they are given.

That said, the democrats have fostered a system where multiple generations are now dependent on welfare. They've grown up with it and have never known any different. Their grandparents and parents have never worked. So, even with all the free education offered to them, they don't bother to go.

paying attention in high school is work, going to college is more hard work. I'm sure many are just to lazy to put in the hours especially with mom and the rest of their friends and family telling them that it's just easier to sponge off the system.

[tailfins]

The "poor" in this country, get free healthcare, free food, free housing, free education and free college. There is no reason they can't pull themselves out of poverty with all the handouts they are given.


That's one reason they can't pull themselves out of poverty. The handouts cause mental atrophy. Stop using your brain and it will stop working, just ask Abouttime.

[Arbo]

The "poor" in this country, get free healthcare, free food, free housing, free education and free college. There is no reason they can't pull themselves out of poverty with all the handouts they are given.

Does the reality that if you work, the 'benefits' of that labor are often less than the 'free stuff' that mama government gives? There were many stories not long ago how most on government assistance are making a better living than the median of working Americans. When the step off of government assistance is down, then the amount of assistance is set far too high.

[Nukeman]

Does the reality that if you work, the 'benefits' of that labor are often less than the 'free stuff' that mama government gives? There were many stories not long ago how most on government assistance are making a better living than the median of working Americans. When the step off of government assistance is down, then the amount of assistance is set far too high.
I agree with you 100% "assistance" is just that ASSISTANCE, not sustenance. These programs were put in place to help in a tight spot not to replace hard work.

I believe the figures I read the other day was that for a single mother of 2-3 on govt assistance to have the SAME amount of disposable income would have to make $56,000.00 a year. That my friends is a $28.00 an hour job. That is a college degree with experience, so why would they want to get off the assistance?? These people know they have it good and are happy to take and take....

[Arbo]

I agree with you 100% "assistance" is just that ASSISTANCE, not sustenance. These programs were put in place to help in a tight spot not to replace hard work.

I believe the figures I read the other day was that for a single mother of 2-3 on govt assistance to have the SAME amount of disposable income would have to make $56,000.00 a year. That my friends is a $28.00 an hour job. That is a college degree with experience, so why would they want to get off the assistance?? These people know they have it good and are happy to take and take....

So how do we 'undo' this insane amount of 'assistance'? You know the first cries are going to be 'why do you hate black people!', 'you want the elderly to die!', 'you don't care about the poor' and other numerous lines that have been used repeatedly in the past.

And if the majority, or almost majority, of Americans are getting this 'assistance' they certainly are going to keep voting for those that do not try to reduce or remove it.

Is it a loosing battle at this point that must simply play out?

[cadet]

So how do we 'undo' this insane amount of 'assistance'? You know the first cries are going to be 'why do you hate black people!', 'you want the elderly to die!', 'you don't care about the poor' and other numerous lines that have been used repeatedly in the past.

And if the majority, or almost majority, of Americans are getting this 'assistance' they certainly are going to keep voting for those that do not try to reduce or remove it.

Is it a loosing battle at this point that must simply play out?

This is what we do. We go into massive debt, and the country goes bankrupt. Then we cut everything and it all goes to crap.
Or we do what I've always said we should, and make welfare controlled by state and county. That way the users can at least have an eye kept on them. And if they abuse it, kick em off.

[fj1200]

This is what we do. We go into massive debt, and the country goes bankrupt. Then we cut everything and it all goes to crap.
Or we do what I've always said we should, and make welfare controlled by state and county. That way the users can at least have an eye kept on them. And if they abuse it, kick em off.

Actually the only "welfare" that's going to bankrupt the country is Medicare and Social Security and they're not easy targets.

[DragonStryk72]

Most people never rise out of poverty, are psychological/environmental reasons mostly to blame, or are they 'lazy'?

I think it could be a solid debate, but I don't think it could be done in an either/or capacity as a debate. Where the fault ultimately lies, but it's clear that it's basically a little from column A and a little from Column B.

[Trigg]

Actually the only "welfare" that's going to bankrupt the country is Medicare and Social Security and they're not easy targets.

I and everyone who has worked pay into their social security, it is not a handout and certainly isn't welfare.

I for one would be happy to NOT pay into it and be able to invest as I see fit.

[Trigg]

So how do we 'undo' this insane amount of 'assistance'? You know the first cries are going to be 'why do you hate black people!', 'you want the elderly to die!', 'you don't care about the poor' and other numerous lines that have been used repeatedly in the past.

And if the majority, or almost majority, of Americans are getting this 'assistance' they certainly are going to keep voting for those that do not try to reduce or remove it.

Is it a loosing battle at this point that must simply play out?


Is it a loosing battle, for now I believe it is. Until we go hopelessly bankrupt like Greece.

[DragonStryk72]

So how do we 'undo' this insane amount of 'assistance'? You know the first cries are going to be 'why do you hate black people!', 'you want the elderly to die!', 'you don't care about the poor' and other numerous lines that have been used repeatedly in the past.

And if the majority, or almost majority, of Americans are getting this 'assistance' they certainly are going to keep voting for those that do not try to reduce or remove it.

Is it a loosing battle at this point that must simply play out?

Well, for one, you have to stop the punishment of those who are trying to get off assistance. I know this sounds stupid, but so many times when I was living in poverty, it felt like every time I tried to move forward, there was the government, setting the rules against me.

"Oh? So you're working Labor Ready, huh? Well, you have to attend this daily class on how to get work during that time instead, or lose your benefits."

"Oh? You picked up a quick part-time job that makes less than your benefits before taxes get taken out of it? Well, screw you, the benefits are gone now."

Meanwhile, the people who are obviously abusing and working the system keep gaining from it. I watched guys on food stamps go out, buy hundreds of dollars on party foods, and then throw massive parties that they charge $10-$20/head cover charge, which, since it's cash, doesn't get reported, so basically, they get a free personal catering business, and nothing gets done for the fact that they're clearly playing the system. Or for unemployment, I've watched people purposely get themselves fired on their 91st day of employment, just so they can recharge their unemployment benefits to stretch things out for another few years.

The whole system feels rigged against you if you have any decent desire to provide for yourself, and at the same time to promote the worst peoples' lifestyles.

[glockmail]

Does the reality that if you work, the 'benefits' of that labor are often less than the 'free stuff' that mama government gives? There were many stories not long ago how most on government assistance are making a better living than the median of working Americans. When the step off of government assistance is down, then the amount of assistance is set far too high. Correct. Which is why I advocate a safety net, low and uncomfortable, not a hammock.

[fj1200]

I and everyone who has worked pay into their social security, it is not a handout and certainly isn't welfare.

I for one would be happy to NOT pay into it and be able to invest as I see fit.

Just because the middle and upper classes are also receiving a stipend every month doesn't mean it isn't welfare. I certainly agree that it's a crap system but let's acknowledge it for what it is and when those particular entitlement programs are on the verge of crushing our Federal budget we can't resist changes just because we need to ensure we "get ours."

[Nukeman]

Just because the middle and upper classes are also receiving a stipend every month doesn't mean it isn't welfare. I certainly agree that it's a crap system but let's acknowledge it for what it is and when those particular entitlement programs are on the verge of crushing our Federal budget we can't resist changes just because we need to ensure we "get ours."
Fine I stop paying today and no longer give my money to the govt for them to pillage every time they need pork in a bill. It is NOT going broke from payments it is going broke because they STEAL the money to pay for stupid programs... Now as far as medicare.. I seem to note a BIG chunk of change coming out of my check every 2 weeks to pay for that as well. I DON'T EVEN RECEIVE MEDICARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So tell me again how I am FORCED to pay into something that I will probably NEVER get and that is some how an entitlement for me.. Sounds more like an a@@ pounding!!

The "stipend" the middle class and upper class receive is money that they "invested" into the govt during their entire working career. The only ones that get it as a entitlement are those that have NEVER put a dime in, in the first place. Forced investment in the govt is NOT an entitlement it is THEFT!!!!!!!!!

[fj1200]

Fine I stop paying today and no longer give my money to the govt for them to pillage every time they need pork in a bill. It is NOT going broke from payments it is going broke because they STEAL the money to pay for stupid programs... Now as far as medicare.. I seem to note a BIG chunk of change coming out of my check every 2 weeks to pay for that as well. I DON'T EVEN RECEIVE MEDICARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So tell me again how I am FORCED to pay into something that I will probably NEVER get and that is some how an entitlement for me.. Sounds more like an a@@ pounding!!

The "stipend" the middle class and upper class receive is money that they "invested" into the govt during their entire working career. The only ones that get it as a entitlement are those that have NEVER put a dime in, in the first place. Forced investment in the govt is NOT an entitlement it is THEFT!!!!!!!!!

First, I'm not actually going to really disagree that Medicare and SS are clusters but second, I'm sure I don't need to go over that the young pay for the old via payroll deductions and very few of us actually are currently receiving the benefits for which we and our families are paying. The reality is the entitlement is coming later once we retire and hit the designated age. Unfortunately we are all benefiting from them "stealing" deductions to pay for other things; do I agree with any of it? Of course not but reality of it is where we are headed.

Of course this all goes to my point of whether we will accept necessary changes or if we will resist on the basis of entitlements.

[DragonStryk72]

First, I'm not actually going to really disagree that Medicare and SS are clusters but second, I'm sure I don't need to go over that the young pay for the old via payroll deductions and very few of us actually are currently receiving the benefits for which we and our families are paying. The reality is the entitlement is coming later once we retire and hit the designated age. Unfortunately we are all benefiting from them "stealing" deductions to pay for other things; do I agree with any of it? Of course not but reality of it is where we are headed.

Of course this all goes to my point of whether we will accept necessary changes or if we will resist on the basis of entitlements.

The changes almost have to be better than the current rigged system. I wouldn't even if, in order to get assistance, I had to work for the government doing menial tasks, like filling potholes, or cleaning up roadkill and such.

I think Habitat for Humanity probably has the best setup. Sure, we'll give you a free house for you and your family, just help our volunteers build the thing, and it's all good. This gives personal investiture in house, as opposed to standard government assisted housing that's basically just handed off. If you do nothing to earn it, it has no value to you.

[Nukeman]

First, I'm not actually going to really disagree that Medicare and SS are clusters but second, I'm sure I don't need to go over that the young pay for the old via payroll deductions and very few of us actually are currently receiving the benefits for which we and our families are paying. The reality is the entitlement is coming later once we retire and hit the designated age. Unfortunately we are all benefiting from them "stealing" deductions to pay for other things; do I agree with any of it? Of course not but reality of it is where we are headed.

Of course this all goes to my point of whether we will accept necessary changes or if we will resist on the basis of entitlements.
When I received my last SS information packet that told me how much I will "earn" every month it doesn't even cover what I payed in let alone any type of investment.

For example a person throughout their career starts out at 25K fresh out of college than 20 years later are making 100k through the 20 years they are working so far they have payed in about 100k into their retirement SS account. Now that person has another 25 years to work at the higher rate they will have an additional 170k removed from their income. That is 270k taken with NO interest payed. Now this same person will receive $2000.00 per month from the time they retire at 68 until they die which with current standards is within 10 years. Do the math that's $24,000 per year (before taxes go figure) times 10 years that is $240,000.00 notice we are still down $30,000.00 of what they payed in.. So tell me again how this is an entitlement??????? Hell you lose money with this scenario.. If I was allowed to invest that exact same amount over the 45 years of working I could turn that into 2-4 million with conservative investing....

[fj1200]

When I received my last SS information packet that told me how much I will "earn" every month it doesn't even cover what I payed in let alone any type of investment.

For example a person throughout their career starts out at 25K fresh out of college than 20 years later are making 100k through the 20 years they are working so far they have payed in about 100k into their retirement SS account. Now that person has another 25 years to work at the higher rate they will have an additional 170k removed from their income. That is 270k taken with NO interest payed. Now this same person will receive $2000.00 per month from the time they retire at 68 until they die which with current standards is within 10 years. Do the math that's $24,000 per year (before taxes go figure) times 10 years that is $240,000.00 notice we are still down $30,000.00 of what they payed in.. So tell me again how this is an entitlement??????? Hell you lose money with this scenario.. If I was allowed to invest that exact same amount over the 45 years of working I could turn that into 2-4 million with conservative investing....

It's an entitlement because you're entitled to it once you hit the sainted age of wisdom and grace as determined by current Federal legislation. And again, I don't disagree with what you've posted about the reality of SS and Medicare, Medicare is even the bigger budget buster looking forward. But the reality of future Federal budgets is extremely bleak, even if revenues get back to historic levels, and the primary reason is SS and Medicare. The fan will be covered in excrement in a few years and we should be thinking now about how to fix it with a long-term view though I don't expect anything is going to happen with the current make up in DC.

And SS already has "welfare" implications, if you make say twice as much, for example, as someone else you don't receive twice as much in benefits; there is a curve built into it.

[Arbo]

When I received my last SS information packet that told me how much I will "earn" every month it doesn't even cover what I payed in let alone any type of investment.

For example a person throughout their career starts out at 25K fresh out of college than 20 years later are making 100k through the 20 years they are working so far they have payed in about 100k into their retirement SS account. Now that person has another 25 years to work at the higher rate they will have an additional 170k removed from their income. That is 270k taken with NO interest payed. Now this same person will receive $2000.00 per month from the time they retire at 68 until they die which with current standards is within 10 years. Do the math that's $24,000 per year (before taxes go figure) times 10 years that is $240,000.00 notice we are still down $30,000.00 of what they payed in.. So tell me again how this is an entitlement??????? Hell you lose money with this scenario.. If I was allowed to invest that exact same amount over the 45 years of working I could turn that into 2-4 million with conservative investing....

Yeah, it's a scam, pure and simple. I really wish there was a 'opt out' for it, as the money they steal from me (and it is theft as by the time I hit the age to collect it, it will no longer be there) could be invested so much better by myself.

[Jeff]

Just because the middle and upper classes are also receiving a stipend every month doesn't mean it isn't welfare. I certainly agree that it's a crap system but let's acknowledge it for what it is and when those particular entitlement programs are on the verge of crushing our Federal budget we can't resist changes just because we need to ensure we "get ours."

I can assure you by no means is SS any kind of welfare, yes I do receive it , as some of you who have known me for a while know at one point I don't think you could of found anyone that worked the hours I did, there where weeks where I slept 2 or 3 hours all week trying to make the best living for my family that I could unfortunately working like that takes a major toll on ones body, so now yes I am in major pain most days ( yup I still do things that one would consider normal but I pay a price for it through the pain I am in ) So when I see someone posting how SS is a kind of Welfare it makes me want to respond, see I never collected anything from our government ( not true back when I was 19 I collected unemployment for two months ) but a few years back my dispatcher wouldn't allow me to return to work even though I had a Doctors note allowing me to do so , seems what I was working with wasn't normal and the Dispatcher ( a guy that liked me even though he ruined my career ) said no one should work in that shape, well of course I couldn't fix what was wrong ( and in my eyes I could still do that same job today) but the Gov. wont give me a ICC physical and now due to that they want to take my CDL lisc. yes my Birthday is coming up and unless I can get a physical by then I will no longer have a CDL Lisc. so what should I do , commit suicide so no one says I am collecting welfare or let my family starve ? And yea I hear the smart asses now well I can just get a different job, hmmm making a 1/4 of what I did or how about my medical conditions dont allow me to stand for long periods or even sit for that matter and physical work is completely out of the question so yes I collect SS ,am I proud of it Hell NO I am embarrassed to admit it( but I also dont lie ) and yes I paid into SS for 30 years and even harped on how many people have no business collecting it ( and those are the ones we need to get off of it ) but at this point in my life I have no choice so do I get touchy when I see people saying it is a form of welfare yes I do as i said those that knew me a few years back will tell you I worked more hours than most and was very proud when people would Gasp and ask me how in the hell could I do it , so let this be a warning for ya younger folks we don't know what the future holds for us and I am a perfect example of it , just a few years ago I to would of considered SS a form of welfare

[Larrymc]

I can assure you by no means is SS any kind of welfare, yes I do receive it , as some of you who have known me for a while know at one point I don't think you could of found anyone that worked the hours I did, there where weeks where I slept 2 or 3 hours all week trying to make the best living for my family that I could unfortunately working like that takes a major toll on ones body, so now yes I am in major pain most days ( yup I still do things that one would consider normal but I pay a price for it through the pain I am in ) So when I see someone posting how SS is a kind of Welfare it makes me want to respond, see I never collected anything from our government ( not true back when I was 19 I collected unemployment for two months ) but a few years back my dispatcher wouldn't allow me to return to work even though I had a Doctors note allowing me to do so , seems what I was working with wasn't normal and the Dispatcher ( a guy that liked me even though he ruined my career ) said no one should work in that shape, well of course I couldn't fix what was wrong ( and in my eyes I could still do that same job today) but the Gov. wont give me a ICC physical and now due to that they want to take my CDL lisc. yes my Birthday is coming up and unless I can get a physical by then I will no longer have a CDL Lisc. so what should I do , commit suicide so no one says I am collecting welfare or let my family starve ? And yea I hear the smart asses now well I can just get a different job, hmmm making a 1/4 of what I did or how about my medical conditions dont allow me to stand for long periods or even sit for that matter and physical work is completely out of the question so yes I collect SS ,am I proud of it Hell NO I am embarrassed to admit it( but I also dont lie ) and yes I paid into SS for 30 years and even harped on how many people have no business collecting it ( and those are the ones we need to get off of it ) but at this point in my life I have no choice so do I get touchy when I see people saying it is a form of welfare yes I do as i said those that knew me a few years back will tell you I worked more hours than most and was very proud when people would Gasp and ask me how in the hell could I do it , so let this be a warning for ya younger folks we don't know what the future holds for us and I am a perfect example of it , just a few years ago I to would of considered SS a form of welfareWow we have similar story's, i completely identify with your story. i change careers when i got sick and did that as long as i could.

[fj1200]

I can assure you by no means is SS any kind of welfare...

I disagree but I do not consider disability to be the same thing. Having said that it is a program that provides monthly income to (some) senior citizens who wouldn't normally need it, especially if it weren't there to begin with and people would have had more incentive to do their own planning. Everybody seems to be overlooking my major point because practically everyone over the age of ~62 is receiving "welfare" so it's not like there is a particular stigma to it; It's not necessarily anything wrong but it is what it is IMO. My point is that those two programs are what are going to be devastating to Federal budgets in the out years and what will be our response to that eventuality; Will we say we need to get what was promised (and can no longer afford) or are we going to accept necessary changes. Now I have no problem with a safety net but that is the extent of what government should provide (perfect world).

[Nukeman]

I disagree but I do not consider disability to be the same thing. Having said that it is a program that provides monthly income to (some) senior citizens who wouldn't normally need it, especially if it weren't there to begin with and people would have had more incentive to do their own planning. Everybody seems to be overlooking my major point because practically everyone over the age of ~62 is receiving "welfare" so it's not like there is a particular stigma to it; It's not necessarily anything wrong but it is what it is IMO. My point is that those two programs are what are going to be devastating to Federal budgets in the out years and what will be our response to that eventuality; Will we say we need to get what was promised (and can no longer afford) or are we going to accept necessary changes. Now I have no problem with a safety net but that is the extent of what government should provide (perfect world).
No one has come close to saying the bold part. There should NEVER be a stigma placed on me receiving my own investments BACK TO ME... This is where you get it wrong that its an entitlement!!! The only ones that can even remotely consider it an entitlement are those that NEVER PAYED A DIME INTO IT. For the rest of us it a very small return on a worthless forced investment....... Do you really NOT see the difference????????

As for "getting what is owed" if the damn govt would KEEP their f-ing hands out of the magical kitty known as SS than there would be plenty there!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff]

I disagree but I do not consider disability to be the same thing. Having said that it is a program that provides monthly income to (some) senior citizens who wouldn't normally need it, especially if it weren't there to begin with and people would have had more incentive to do their own planning. Everybody seems to be overlooking my major point because practically everyone over the age of ~62 is receiving "welfare" so it's not like there is a particular stigma to it; It's not necessarily anything wrong but it is what it is IMO. My point is that those two programs are what are going to be devastating to Federal budgets in the out years and what will be our response to that eventuality; Will we say we need to get what was promised (and can no longer afford) or are we going to accept necessary changes. Now I have no problem with a safety net but that is the extent of what government should provide (perfect world).

I understand what you are saying Fj, not so much agree but I certainly understand where I took it wrong

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I can assure you by no means is SS any kind of welfare, yes I do receive it , as some of you who have known me for a while know at one point I don't think you could of found anyone that worked the hours I did, there where weeks where I slept 2 or 3 hours all week trying to make the best living for my family that I could unfortunately working like that takes a major toll on ones body, so now yes I am in major pain most days ( yup I still do things that one would consider normal but I pay a price for it through the pain I am in ) So when I see someone posting how SS is a kind of Welfare it makes me want to respond, see I never collected anything from our government ( not true back when I was 19 I collected unemployment for two months ) but a few years back my dispatcher wouldn't allow me to return to work even though I had a Doctors note allowing me to do so , seems what I was working with wasn't normal and the Dispatcher ( a guy that liked me even though he ruined my career ) said no one should work in that shape, well of course I couldn't fix what was wrong ( and in my eyes I could still do that same job today) but the Gov. wont give me a ICC physical and now due to that they want to take my CDL lisc. yes my Birthday is coming up and unless I can get a physical by then I will no longer have a CDL Lisc. so what should I do , commit suicide so no one says I am collecting welfare or let my family starve ? And yea I hear the smart asses now well I can just get a different job, hmmm making a 1/4 of what I did or how about my medical conditions dont allow me to stand for long periods or even sit for that matter and physical work is completely out of the question so yes I collect SS ,am I proud of it Hell NO I am embarrassed to admit it( but I also dont lie ) and yes I paid into SS for 30 years and even harped on how many people have no business collecting it ( and those are the ones we need to get off of it ) but at this point in my life I have no choice so do I get touchy when I see people saying it is a form of welfare yes I do as i said those that knew me a few years back will tell you I worked more hours than most and was very proud when people would Gasp and ask me how in the hell could I do it , so let this be a warning for ya younger folks we don't know what the future holds for us and I am a perfect example of it , just a few years ago I to would of considered SS a form of welfareI've paid into SS FOR OVER 41 YEARS NOW. Have not signed up yet , can not for a couple more years but they damn sure owe me and by God it's not charity either!! -Tyr

[aboutime]

I've paid into SS FOR OVER 41 YEARS NOW. Have not signed up yet , can not for a couple more years but they damn sure owe me and by God it's not charity either!! -Tyr


Tyr. I began paying into SS in 1964. And if anyone thinks I will ever get everything back for doing so. That bridge in New York City is a good sale for One Dollar too! So, whether anyone likes it or not. Call it whatever you want. I earned it.

[fj1200]

No one has come close to saying the bold part. There should NEVER be a stigma placed on me receiving my own investments BACK TO ME... This is where you get it wrong that its an entitlement!!! The only ones that can even remotely consider it an entitlement are those that NEVER PAYED A DIME INTO IT. For the rest of us it a very small return on a worthless forced investment....... Do you really NOT see the difference????????

As for "getting what is owed" if the damn govt would KEEP their f-ing hands out of the magical kitty known as SS than there would be plenty there!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, I don't disagree with that but how about taking a crack at my larger point; SS and Medicare are going to bust the budget under current projections. We can both acknowledge the past and the failure of another government program but what is your reaction going to be in the future when changes have to occur?

[fj1200]

I've paid into SS FOR OVER 41 YEARS NOW. Have not signed up yet , can not for a couple more years but they damn sure owe me and by God it's not charity either!! -Tyr

I didn't say charity, I said welfare. :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I didn't say charity, I said welfare. :poke: What's tha diff?????

You say either and I say either,
You say neither and I say neither
Either, either neither, neither
You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto.------:laugh:--Tyr

[fj1200]

What's tha diff?????

Being compelled.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Being compelled.

Do you think a turtle knows what it's shell is for? ;)--Tyr

[fj1200]

Do you think a turtle knows what it's shell is for? ;)--Tyr

That depends; is the turtle complaining about government while demanding a new shell because he's "paid in"?

[aboutime]

Do you think a turtle knows what it's shell is for? ;)--Tyr

5554 Does it really matter what the shell is for? That's an Obamacare Turtle.

We know it's there. But not able to go anywhere.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That depends; is the turtle complaining about government while demanding a new shell because he's "paid in"? ha, who is demanding a new shell? Hell, we'll be lucky to be able to keep the old one! Way things are going now be lucky just to be able to eat and have a roof over our heads. They give me --my money-- back I'll repair my old shell and keep on keeping on.... I predict the scoundrels try to steal most of that from me too. Tyr

[Kathianne]

That depends; is the turtle complaining about government while demanding a new shell because he's "paid in"?

Is it ok for a party to change a contract in the middle, not to mention the end? Should the gov't be exempted from contracts? If so, what is gov't if not a contract?

[fj1200]

ha, who is demanding a new shell? Hell, we'll be lucky to be able to keep the old one! Way things are going now be lucky just to be able to eat and have a roof over our heads. They give me --my money-- back I'll repair my old shell and keep on keeping on.... I predict the scoundrels try to steal most of that from me too. Tyr

Who indeed. ;)


Is it ok for a party to change a contract in the middle, not to mention the end? Should the gov't be exempted from contracts? If so, what is gov't if not a contract?

:laugh: Government... Contract... :laugh: Have you seen the unfunded liability projections?

Why is no one answering my question?

[aboutime]

Is it ok for a party to change a contract in the middle, not to mention the end? Should the gov't be exempted from contracts? If so, what is gov't if not a contract?


Kathianne. Truth be told. The U.S.Govt has been breaking their stated, written contracts with millions of American Veterans, and Active Duty members of the Military since the time of the Vietnam war began winding down in the 70's.

Congress has violated, and broken contracts...signed by millions of Americans who Obeyed, and Kept their Word when being sworn-in as members of the military.

So. It's not unusual for any POLITICIAN, or member of any Presidential administration to BREAK contracts, and Lie to the American people.
Which is why I always remind everyone. POLITICIANS ARE ALL LIARS.

[red states rule]

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1204/liberal-compassion-poverty-pimps-politics-1335588893.jpg