9/11 in the land of the free....

[Arbo]

http://imgur.com/a/cEPuE


Hmm... who really 'won'?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://imgur.com/a/cEPuE


Hmm... who really 'won'? Common sense and conservatives sure did not win. None of the actions reflected in that link are in line with common sense or conservative thinking. However they are in line with liberal/progressive and democrat thinking IMHO..-Tyr

[Arbo]

Common sense and conservatives sure did not win. None of the actions reflected in that link are in line with common sense or conservative thinking. However they are in line with liberal/progressive and democrat thinking IMHO..-Tyr

It has nothing to do with conservative/liberal, it has to do with a government hell bent on controlling it's people and using any excuse possible.

That some continue to try to 'blame the other guy' and do not see the picture, is exactly what they want, and it is what has allowed them to keep on marching right over our rights.

[Drummond]

I'm not one for heavy-handed control-freakery, either.

That said .. two comments occur. One is to suggest that The War on Terror should still be ongoing, and, given that it IS, this should place the US on a form of war footing. And ... peacetime conditions are inappropriate to such a footing.

My second comment is actually a question. Given the suspension or eradication of such controls ... HOW would America find, or apply, any alternative which would act as an equal or better anti-terrorist, pro-security creating one, one at least as good as protecting citizens from terrorist attack ?

You see, I'm not in favour of anything which gives terrorists the slightest advantage. No decent human being ever should be.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It has nothing to do with conservative/liberal, it has to do with a government hell bent on controlling it's people and using any excuse possible.

That some continue to try to 'blame the other guy' and do not see the picture, is exactly what they want, and it is what has allowed them to keep on marching right over our rights. I agree with this part of your comment ....


it has to do with a government hell bent on controlling it's people and using any excuse possible. -----The rest is very debatable. When you say, "exactly what they want" , you fail to list who the --"they"- people are. The majority of the people pushing to keep us divided are democratic party leaders and of course Obama. -Tyr

[Arbo]

I agree with this part of your comment ....

-----The rest is very debatable. When you say, "exactly what they want" , you fail to list who the --"they"- people are. The majority of the people pushing to keep us divided are democratic party leaders and of course Obama. -Tyr

Both sides, both big parties, want to keep the people fighting and pointing the finger at the other guy. It keeps them distracted so they don't pay attention to the big picture. A (D) is involved in a sex scandal? Scream it to the trees, get all your (R)'s in an uproar over it! A week later when a (R) does the same stuff? Just reverse who cries foul and who makes excuses for 'their guy'. It's been going on for far far too long.

And the people are gullible enough to swallow the bait just about every freaking time, so they are distracted and arguing about minor shit, while government (be it (R) or (D) controlled) puts in place new legislation or a new EO that in some way strips a little more liberty from us.

[Little-Acorn]

Yep, government has been expanding steadily - a process that did not start on Sept. 11, 2001.

Worst part of the things you point out, is our tendency to do unwarranted searches on 5-year-old kids, grandmothers, etc., while letting large numbers of middle Eastern men go thru unsearched... even though nearly all terrorist acts have been committed by middle Eastern men between the ages of 18 and 40.

Oh, but we don't want to stigmatize middle Eastern men?

The hell we don't. They stigmatized themselves by forming that vast majority of terrorists.

Hey, middle Eastern men, if you don't like being stigmatized... why don't you stand up in mosques and on street corners, and give long, impassioned speeches about how dreadful it is to murder Jews, blow up buildings, and fly aircraft into skyscrapers?

When you start doing that, I'll believe you.

Until then, we should be searching every one of you who gets on a plane... if we let you get aboard them at all.

But this dark cloud does, at least, have a slight silver lining.: Since 9/11, how many terrorists have died, and how many of us have?

[Little-Acorn]

From 2004. Long, but a very good read.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=12188

[Abbey Marie]

I recently had a pretty thorough breast exam at the airport, in full view of the other passengers, while wearing my USO volunteer badge and shirt. (Every shift that I volunteer at the airport USO, I have to go through security). And keep in mind that in order to get the badge, I had to go through a TSA background check and fingerprinting. Doesn't matter; I am treated like a potential terrorist just the same.

While it's not fun being felt-up in public, I accept it and move on.

[Arbo]

Worst part of the things you point out, is our tendency to do unwarranted searches on 5-year-old kids, grandmothers, etc., while letting large numbers of middle Eastern men go thru unsearched... even though nearly all terrorist acts have been committed by middle Eastern men between the ages of 18 and 40.

Yeah, that's one that makes no sense to me. When the 'people' you are looking for fit a description, well, that's who you look for. Of course they are not against using kids or grandmothers, but until they do, we should be focusing on those that have actually committed acts of terrorism. Profiling is not bad, it is very good, and it appears our government refuses to do it because it might piss people off.

I have a sister in law who's parents are pakistani, thus she 'looks' middle eastern, and she has said she EXPECTS to be stopped and taken a second look at, that if they don't, they are not doing their jobs. And she isn't offended about it in the least. More common sense in her head than in that of those in government combined.

[Larrymc]

I'm not one for heavy-handed control-freakery, either.

That said .. two comments occur. One is to suggest that The War on Terror should still be ongoing, and, given that it IS, this should place the US on a form of war footing. And ... peacetime conditions are inappropriate to such a footing.

My second comment is actually a question. Given the suspension or eradication of such controls ... HOW would America find, or apply, any alternative which would act as an equal or better anti-terrorist, pro-security creating one, one at least as good as protecting citizens from terrorist attack ?

You see, I'm not in favour of anything which gives terrorists the slightest advantage. No decent human being ever should be.I think the political incorrect Profiling would be a better chose, its ridicules to spend the time and money on humiliating everyone because a few may be offended.

[Gaffer]

I recently had a pretty thorough breast exam at the airport, in full view of the other passengers, while wearing my USO volunteer badge and shirt. (Every shift that I volunteer at the airport USO, I have to go through security). And keep in mind that in order to get the badge, I had to go through a TSA background check and fingerprinting. Doesn't matter; I am treated like a potential terrorist just the same.

While it's not fun being felt-up in public, I accept it and move on.

You realize having a USO badge makes you an enemy of the state, right? :rolleyes:

[revelarts]

people forget that All of the post 9/11 airport "security" has been proven a failure over and over by the gov't's on testing.
when i call it security theater i'm not just being dramatic. that's what it is security wise.
(Not to mention that much of the fondling is criminal)

Drummmond, if we were serious about terrorism we wouldn't be chomping at the bit to supply alqeada air support, weapons, training and logistics in Syria and Libya. or the MEK terrorist we support in Iran.
the war on terror in your mind is a real thing that should be taken seriously but in the minds of our leadership, conservative and liberal, it's a game.
And your fear is being played on to take more of your rights and money. got to pay for the war ya know. Alqeada... i mean... Syria's gonna git ya unless big daddy gov't protects ya...

[Arbo]

people forget that All of the post 9/11 airport "security" has been proven a failure over and over by the gov't's on testing.
when i call it security theater i'm not just being dramatic. that's what it is security wise.

I do recall reading that just about every 'test' to pass something through security, was a failure as the fake bombs and guns all got through.

[revelarts]

http://i.imgur.com/JS0blZn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfOzXu3.png


http://i.imgur.com/DN2NjjO.jpg



if Americans can't see that this whole mess needs to be completely stopped. not just tweaked.
I don't know what we won't endure for "safety".

http://i.imgur.com/4Hu1OFu.jpg

this crap is insane.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://i.imgur.com/JS0blZn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfOzXu3.png


http://i.imgur.com/DN2NjjO.jpg



if Americans can't see that this whole mess needs to be completely stopped. not just tweaked.
I don't know what we won't endure for "safety".

http://i.imgur.com/4Hu1OFu.jpg

this crap is insane. Could be "advanced conditioning" for us to get used to in our coming days of dhimmitude. You see muslims are waved right on in. Say, wasn't it muslims that did the attack???????????????????????????????????? No way, must have been we non-muslims, right????????????????????????? I mean the government operates that way....:bs1:---Tyr

[red state]

It is called political correctness / fairness but (as with affirmative action) isn't fair or productive at all. Thanks, btw, for the photos there REV. I wish I could get some sort of reliable search for such things on here cuz I'd love to refer back to these (without having to save them or post them in a draft email). At any rate, Tyr is 110% correct that the main purpose is "conditioning". I so dreaded my fly-in to the LEFT Coast last year because I truly wasn't in any kind of mind-set to allow such attacks on my freedom....just creeps me out seeing that photo with the TSA slop looking right at the older gent with the dropped drawers. Fortunately, the only "incident" was with our water.....we had actually already gone through security and even bought the water just FEET from where we were to board the plane. My wife got through with her water just fine but they decided to wave a wand over mine....I told them to just keep it cuz there's no telling where their wand had been. My wife later told me to shut up next time and just board the plane. That was SF and I've never had to be double checked like that in Atlanta, Chicago, Orlando, Hilton Head or Memphis. I saw one very muSLUM looking gal who was stopped and questioned for not having any form of ID (although she had a ticket). For a while there, I truly thought they were going to let her pass but because many of us were watching and because the old gal could speak an ounce of English, they held her back. I did see a service man get stopped by some hack but fortunately, an older gent waved him on and got on to the lil' wormy guy who stopped him in the first place. SF is a gorgeous area....all the way to Sacramento but the libs have ruined that beautiful State and it will likely be a third world blow-back of Mexico in a few years.

I truly refuse to fly now because I'd be detained and put under the jail (if and when) something came out of their violating my rights. Of course, TN and who knows what all other States now have some form of a HWY TSA. Hard to believe that such a RED STATE would allow it but that is the world we live in and they are practically the distribution center of the USA.

I doubt we'll be any different (IF) we are fortunate enough to get a super majority in 2014 or a legitimate president in 2016 who isn't a girly-man but it sure is nice thinking about a severe reduction in agencies and unlawful LAWs.

[red state]

You know....I was just looking at the photos again and some of the "agents" don't seem to enjoy themselves and are probably going against their own politics BUT I suppose a job is more important. To be honest, I'm glad I've been blessed like I have, and God only knows that I've had my share of $#!TTY jobs, but I'd just about rather sell dope or rob a bank before I took part in a job that victimized my fellow American. Is that too harsh of a comparison? Maybe, but I'd not have that job and if I did, I'd quickly be fired for sho!!! Sadly, however, many do enjoy these jobs and because of their envy for Americans who obviously have it better than they, will undoubtedly abuse their power to "stick it to the man". The TSA agents and the Smoky Mountain rangers have one thing in common for sure....they are FULL of B.O. supporters. And please, no moronic BUSH come-backs.....I can't stand that fake either!!!

[fj1200]

if Americans can't see that this whole mess needs to be completely stopped. not just tweaked.
I don't know what we won't endure for "safety".

this crap is insane.

Can't let those "Muzzy" terrorists win right 'd'?


I'm not one for heavy-handed control-freakery, either.

That said .. two comments occur. One is to suggest that The War on Terror should still be ongoing, and, given that it IS, this should place the US on a form of war footing. And ... peacetime conditions are inappropriate to such a footing.

My second comment is actually a question. Given the suspension or eradication of such controls ... HOW would America find, or apply, any alternative which would act as an equal or better anti-terrorist, pro-security creating one, one at least as good as protecting citizens from terrorist attack ?

You see, I'm not in favour of anything which gives terrorists the slightest advantage. No decent human being ever should be.

We've got enough libs here pi$$ing on the Constitution that we con't need "conservatives" doing the same.

[Arbo]

We've got enough libs here pi$$ing on the Constitution that we con't need "conservatives" doing the same.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:.

[fj1200]

:laugh:

[revelarts]

the TSA needs to be trashed as a Horrific unAmerican knee jerk idea like the interment camps for the Japanese Americans.


"The Federal Government can't stop 6,000 tons of Cocaine coming into America every year, DMS can't stop thousands of illegal immigrants every month. Nothing can stop a man with a suitcase bomb coming into an unwatched port. Safety and security are illusions. The TSA is a scam."

that quote doesn't mention the 100s of tons of Herion, the 100s of tons of MJ, or illegal prescription drugs, or human trafficking into the U.S...

.....
Israel head of security of ElAl says Body scanners are no good.
He Basically says the shoes, and underwear searches are stupid, But cargo checks, catering, food, washing of the plane , ground crew checks, the baggage checks are most important. but it's the safety of the passengers which is paramount not the searching because 99.99% of passengers are innocent. He says The passenger list with the data would flag serious threats long before they got to the airport and security would be waiting to pull that suspect person/s aside toc heck them. They know they are coming to get on the plane. then interviews intel based, laser profile, yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lw7V...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lw7V1g-hpA&feature=related)

............
Security and Terrorism Expert Bruce Schneier: TSA Scans "Won't Catch Anybody"
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ater-interview (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/tsa-scans-security-theater-interview)


........

Gaping Holes in Airline Security: Loaded Gun Slips Past TSA Screeners
Secret Tests At LAX, O'Hare, Newark Show TSA Screeners Missed Guns, Bombs
ABC news
Last fall, as he had done hundreds of times, Iranian-American businessman Farid Seif passed through security at a Houston airport and boarded an international flight.
PHOTO A Glock handgun like this one passed unnoticed through TSA screeners and scanning machines in Houston last year and made it onto an international Continental Airlines flight.
A Glock handgun like this one passed unnoticed through TSA screeners and scanning machines in Houston last year and made it onto an international Continental Airlines flight.
(ABC News)

He didn't realize he had forgotten to remove the loaded snub nose "baby" Glock pistol from his computer bag. But TSA officers never noticed as his bag glided along the belt and was x-rayed. When he got to his hotel after the three-hour flight, he was shocked to discover the gun traveled unnoticed from Houston.

"It's just impossible to miss it, you know. I mean, this is not a small gun," Seif told ABC News. "How can you miss it? You cannot miss it."

But the TSA did miss it, and despite what most people believe about the painstaking effort to screen airline passengers and their luggage before they enter the terminal, it was not that unusual.

Experts tell ABC News that every year since the September 11 terror attacks, federal agencies have conducted random, covert "red team tests," where undercover agents try to see just how much they can get past security checks at major U.S. airports. And while the Department of Homeland Security closely guards the results as classified, those that have leaked in media reports have been shocking.

According to one report, undercover TSA agents testing security at a Newark airport terminal on one day in 2006 found that TSA screeners failed to detect concealed bombs and guns 20 out of 22 times. A 2007 government audit leaked to USA Today revealed that undercover agents were successful slipping simulated explosives and bomb parts through Los Angeles's LAX airport in 50 out of 70 attempts, and at Chicago's O'Hare airport agents made 75 attempts and succeeded in getting through undetected 45 times....



Some test done say they were able to get bombs through 100% of the time. So why are we taking are shoes off and getting felt up? No good reason. period. we are not safer with the this BS showboat "security".

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded...2412458&page=2 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-screeners/story?id=12412458&page=2)


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?33529-Strip-Searched-Grandma-Says-TSA-Removed-Her-Underwear&p=509191#post509191



Security Theater

[jafar00]

I recently had a pretty thorough breast exam at the airport, in full view of the other passengers, while wearing my USO volunteer badge and shirt. (Every shift that I volunteer at the airport USO, I have to go through security). And keep in mind that in order to get the badge, I had to go through a TSA background check and fingerprinting. Doesn't matter; I am treated like a potential terrorist just the same.

While it's not fun being felt-up in public, I accept it and move on.

I've never had any of that done to me when travelling anywhere except for a strip search in Zurich once, and that time I got questioned and strip searched coming off the Eurostar in London. I also had my bag searched and was questioned about every item including a small bottle of Musk perfume I had in Helsinki once. I make dozens of flights a year and mostly all it involves is getting my laptop out of my bag to be scanned separately before getting on a plane.


http://i.imgur.com/JS0blZn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfOzXu3.png


http://i.imgur.com/DN2NjjO.jpg



if Americans can't see that this whole mess needs to be completely stopped. not just tweaked.
I don't know what we won't endure for "safety".

http://i.imgur.com/4Hu1OFu.jpg

this crap is insane.

It sure is. They DON'T do this ANYWHERE ELSE in the world. That guy above, was he required to drop his trousers or did he just do it because he thought that was how far they wanted it to go? And fingers down your pants? What about the titty grab and cleavage feel? Not to mention kiddy fiddling.

"They hate us for our freedom" - GW Bush

What freedom?


Could be "advanced conditioning" for us to get used to in our coming days of dhimmitude. You see muslims are waved right on in. Say, wasn't it muslims that did the attack???????????????????????????????????? No way, must have been we non-muslims, right????????????????????????? I mean the government operates that way....:bs1:---Tyr

Regardless of who did it and why, your government and to a lesser extent some other western governments have capitalised on it to further control their citizens.

[revelarts]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RUTJEwP6XCo?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[red state]

REV, you are SPOT ON! We need to trash the TSA and many other useless agencies (such as the ATF and other "newbies"). In fact, I'm all for trashing old agencies or cutting them by 80% (at the VERY least). These include the IRS.....or should I have said ESPECIALLY the IRS). I'd say keep the FBI and CIA and slim them up but the EPA and crap agencies like that need to GO!!!


Drummond, you know I respect you enormously but I'll have to say that you're looking at this all wrong (if I understand you correctly). There are simply solutions to our terrorist problem and below are a few:


1. DON'T go to terrorist nations (for nothing). Do not allow flights into and out of proven terrorist hotpots (which is practically ALL muSLUM hellholes around the world).


2. Position heavily armed marshals THROUGHOUT the aircraft (both in plain clothes and uniform).


3. Have highly trained dogs to sniff out drugs, weapons and explosives.


4. Allow EVERYONE to carry some form of self protection or offer as another SAFETY extra (such as oxygen masks and "flotation devices". Such self defense could be knife or club (your pick)


5. Stop being so friggin' TOLERANT or FAIR when it comes to fighting muSLUMs (who make up the super majority of terrorism). Political Correctness is killing us and I personally feel MORE threatened by our overreaching gov. than I do from any muSLUM or gang. I understand that those in NY could argue my point but I'm speaking from my perspective here in a RED STATE (which has seen the injustice of Katrina and the stupidity of disarming our BEST at Fort Hood. It was the liberal agenda that caused much of what has hurt those in the South and all over our Nation. Just look at the deaths via illegal border invaders through gang warfare, drugs, DUI's, violent rape/murder and so on). Look, I can compromise with anyone who disagrees with what I've said but we MUST see that the above list is, to some degree, a set plan that is better than the one we have now. My God, has it not been the regular, common JOE who has stopped more terrorist plots? If not, it has certainly been a good portion of the failed plots falling at the hand of observant and patriotic American Joe/Jolene.

*List above not necessarily in order.



Jim, About Time, I'd especially like to hear what you have to say because (respectfully) it was your State that suffered the most during 9/11. If you guys feel that we need the TSA or have any suggestions for how to better this obtrusive organization, I'd like to hear it. I'd gladly rethink my position but I truly feel that we've gone about this the wrong way and I still remember the words of George Bush immediately protecting the "good name" of the muSLUM community world wide (while we saw them celebrate the awful event that many Americans have to relive each time a day such as yesterday rolls around. I detest those who sugar coat what happened or from whom the attacks occurred. Sadly, it was from such pothetic individuals who gave us these new agencies without anyone mentioning the wise words from Ben Franklin regarding the awful trade from liberty for 'SO-CALLED' security.

I'm not as some here who believe themselves to be above or smarter than anyone else but I do believe I make good points from time to time and, like REV, am sick of this over reaching gov. Tyr and others within a so called "horseman" have been telling it like it is in that we are inch by inch giving way to an ultimate goal laid out by our enemies and it is time to stop this fall. We Americans are better than that and if you see fit to force another American to be defenseless or to agree with a certain point of view without respecting the opposing opinion or heritage....If you feel that it's OK for another's hard earned money to go to those who shouldn't be eligible of have proven that they are in need of MY money, you are more tyrant and thief than American. I've made mention of this earlier or within a similar thread but I have questions as to one's PATRIOTISM for abusing Americans under the guise of the TSA. I truly don't know how anyone could work for such an agency unless they are in desperate NEED, are IGNORANT or simply an ENEMY from within. Wake up America!

[red state]

As a curious side-note, does any DP member know a member of the IRS, ATF, TSA or such groups? I know one. He is the father of my daughter's best friend and seems to have it pretty darn good at the IRS (off of OUR dime). I know that there are those who are good folks in any such organization/agency but the ATF is very questionable to me and the TSA is almost totally a NO NO in my opinion as to one I could respect for having employment there. Perhaps I'm wrong for blaming the person within a VERY bad, anti-American "security" agency but it seems to me that (IF) one had been an employee or part owner of a bank that helped to finance HITLER then they are as evil as the "bank".

Just a question....and my zeal could have me being too harsh on such folks or in my thinking. I'm extremely open for others to chime in and am still interested to know how many DP members we have who actually know or know of folks in such agencies. It'd also be interesting to note how such folks are treated....be it warmly, coldly or if any of us have expressed our views regarding their employment or employers (who, IRONICALLY, happens to be US).

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Regardless of who did it and why, your government and to a lesser extent some other western governments have capitalised on it to further control their citizens. Can not and will not disagree with that statement. --Tyr