Syrian rebel eating heart of dead victim. This is what obama will help win. Video not

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Check this out ,rebel forces in Syria commander carves out the heart of a dead government soldier to eat. Real not fake. Check the link .. This is the type of muslim terrorist bastards Obama now seeks to help win by striking Assad! ---------http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/ -----VIDEO* Syrian rebel cuts out soldiers heart and eats it *NSFW*<!-- Begin each blog post --> http://i0.wp.com/thelibertarianrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Screen-Shot-2013-06-17-at-5.37.12-PM.png?zoom=1.5&resize=600%2C250 (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/)

Posted by Austin Petersen on 17 Jun 2013 / <fb:comments-count xmlns="http://ogp.me/ns/fb#" fb-xfbml-state="rendered" href="http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/">152</fb:comments-count> Comments



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A video report from May 15th shows the actions of the kinds of people who Senators Rubio, McCain and Graham are sending American taxpayer money to support. A Syrian rebel soldier cuts out the heart and liver of a soldier and appears to eat the heart chanting ”I swear to God we will eat your hearts out, you soldiers of Bashar. You dogs. God is greater!” the man says. “Heroes of Baba Amr … we will take out their hearts to eat them.”
A video report from CNN is here
And the alleged video is here. Remember: These are the people we are supporting with our tax dollars.
WARNING: GRAPHIC MATERIAL

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z9IRn5b0aik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe> Sorry, video appears not to work, just click on link to view it.-Tyr http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/

[red state]

Tyr, Tyr, Tyr, we ALL know this isn't real and even if it were...it definitely isn't a REAL muSLUM doing it. Probably just a plant or perhaps a stupid muSLUM who was told that it was FREE pâté like the muSLUMS who were cheering during 9-11 had really just been given candy or money or something and was just happy for being given FREE stuff. Why, it could even be that a Jew or American FORCED this man to do this horrible act against the muSLUM's wishes. A REAL muSLUM could NEVER do anything wrong....you know that by now. WE all know that by now cuz fart has told us so.

[red state]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBtJn3tKNdM

You best not surrender or be "tolerant" because they will not be merciful to you (ANY of you). Funny thing is, the homosexuals and liberals will be one of the FIRST on their list (AFTER) they've gone through Americas LAST defense...we good ole boys.

I would have not made it to this far in the video has I been there......they would have already had to shoot my tail. I'm not going down so easy and I sure as the devil am not going to be kicked around and HOPE that they'll be "nice guys". Fear, my @$$, this stuff doesn't put fear in real men...it makes REAL men even better fighters cuz you know that you best not surrender.

[jafar00]

There is a Wiki mention with a more balanced look at it this.


In May 2013, a video was posted on the internet showing rebel commander Abu Sakkar cutting organs from the dead body of a Syrian soldier and putting one of them in his mouth, "as if he is taking a bite out of it". He called rebels to follow his example and terrorize the Alawite sect, which mostly backs Assad. Human Rights Watch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch) confirmed the authenticity of the footage, and stated that "The mutilation of the bodies of enemies is a war crime. But the even more serious issue is the very rapid descent into sectarian rhetoric and violence". It said that Abu Sakkar appears to be a commander of the "Independent Omar al-Farouq Brigade". The BBC called it an offshoot or sub-unit of the Farouq Brigades, saying that "the Farouq Brigade appears to be actually a complex of sub-units with a tangled pedigree".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades#cite_note-bbc-20130514-4) Human Rights Watch said "It is not known whether the Independent Omar al-Farouq Brigade operates within the command structure of the Free Syrian Army". The incident was condemned by the FSA's Chief of Staff and the Syrian National Coalition said that the commander would be put on trial.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades#cite_note-15)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades#cite_note-16) The rebel Supreme Military Council called for Abu Sakkar's arrest, saying it wants him "dead or alive". Abu Sakkar said that the mutilation was revenge. He claimed he found a video on the soldier's cellphone in which the soldier sexually abuses a woman and her two daughters,[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades#cite_note-17) along with other videos showing Assad loyalists raping, torturing, dismembering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismemberment) and killing people, including children.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades#cite_note-18)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farouq_Brigades

Abu Sakkar deserves a bullet in the head for this.

[red state]

"There is a Wiki mention with a more balanced look at it this."
__________________________________________________ _____________________

http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/signs/blah-blah-0006.gif http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/msn-emoticons/msn-emoticon-032.gifallah is great...allah is good...

The fart is getting old and stinky. Somehow, I KNEW that guy (or any guy doing anything wrong) was not a REAL muSLUM.

[jafar00]

"There is a Wiki mention with a more balanced look at it this."
__________________________________________________ _____________________

http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/signs/blah-blah-0006.gif http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/msn-emoticons/msn-emoticon-032.gifallah is great...allah is good...

The fart is getting old and stinky. Somehow, I KNEW that guy (or any guy doing anything wrong) was not a REAL muSLUM.

Even Muslims can commit crimes. Does it mean they aren't Muslim? no. Does it mean they broke the law? Yes.

This guy is now a fugitive in a lawless country with a Wanted: Dead or Alive bounty on his head.

So go ahead and say this is what Muslims do without giving proof to that accusation and look like a fool while you do it.

Fact is, it is Muslims that are after this guy's head on a stick for desecrating the soldier's corpse. What are you doing about it tough guy?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Even Muslims can commit crimes. Does it mean they aren't Muslim? no. Does it mean they broke the law? Yes.

This guy is now a fugitive in a lawless country with a Wanted: Dead or Alive bounty on his head.

So go ahead and say this is what Muslims do without giving proof to that accusation and look like a fool while you do it.

Fact is, it is Muslims that are after this guy's head on a stick for desecrating the soldier's corpse. What are you doing about it tough guy?

This is in direct contradiction to EVERYTHING you've said about Muslims on this board. You have REPEATEDLY stated that those who commit cries or acts of terrorism 'are not really Muslims'.

In which case were you lying? When you claimed they were 'not really Muslim', or that they were?

[jafar00]

This is in direct contradiction to EVERYTHING you've said about Muslims on this board. You have REPEATEDLY stated that those who commit cries or acts of terrorism 'are not really Muslims'.

In which case were you lying? When you claimed they were 'not really Muslim', or that they were?

I said the acts are not Islamic. Read again.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=660786#post660786)
This is in direct contradiction to EVERYTHING you've said about Muslims on this board. You have REPEATEDLY stated that those who commit cries or acts of terrorism 'are not really Muslims'.

In which case were you lying? When you claimed they were 'not really Muslim', or that they were?


I said the acts are not Islamic. Read again.

Bullshit. You've repeatedly called Islamic terrorists who committed various crimes 'not really Muslims'. Now you want to move the goalposts and claim you said their 'acts' were not Islamic.

You're as full of shit as your pedophile prophet.

[Larrymc]

Check this out ,rebel forces in Syria commander carves out the heart of a dead government soldier to eat. Real not fake. Check the link .. This is the type of muslim terrorist bastards Obama now seeks to help win by striking Assad! ---------http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/ -----VIDEO* Syrian rebel cuts out soldiers heart and eats it *NSFW*<!-- Begin each blog post --> http://i0.wp.com/thelibertarianrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Screen-Shot-2013-06-17-at-5.37.12-PM.png?zoom=1.5&resize=600%2C250 (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/)

Posted by Austin Petersen on 17 Jun 2013 / <fb:comments-count xmlns="http://ogp.me/ns/fb#" fb-xfbml-state="rendered" href="http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/">152</fb:comments-count> Comments



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A video report from May 15th shows the actions of the kinds of people who Senators Rubio, McCain and Graham are sending American taxpayer money to support. A Syrian rebel soldier cuts out the heart and liver of a soldier and appears to eat the heart chanting ”I swear to God we will eat your hearts out, you soldiers of Bashar. You dogs. God is greater!” the man says. “Heroes of Baba Amr … we will take out their hearts to eat them.”
A video report from CNN is here
And the alleged video is here. Remember: These are the people we are supporting with our tax dollars.
WARNING: GRAPHIC MATERIAL

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z9IRn5b0aik" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe> Sorry, video appears not to work, just click on link to view it.-Tyr http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/ Gruesome just doesn't seem to cover it??

[Drummond]

Gruesome just doesn't seem to cover it??

True. But I think I know a word that does.

ISLAMIC.

Before Jafar steps in to deny that, I should remind him that there are plenty of comparable (.. well, sort of .. ??) barbarities committed by Muslims. Beheadings are an obvious example.

Is it TRULY comparable ? Whether or not it is, this speaks of an absence of humanitarian decency, replaced by utter barbarity .....

... as so many Muslim acts do.

Ah, but of course, 'none of them are Muslims'. Ho hum.

[Drummond]

Bullshit. You've repeatedly called Islamic terrorists who committed various crimes 'not really Muslims'. Now you want to move the goalposts and claim you said their 'acts' were not Islamic.

You're as full of shit as your pedophile prophet.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Larrymc]

True. But I think I know a word that does.

ISLAMIC.

Before Jafar steps in to deny that, I should remind him that there are plenty of comparable (.. well, sort of .. ??) barbarities committed by Muslims. Beheadings are an obvious example.

Is it TRULY comparable ? Whether or not it is, this speaks of an absence of humanitarian decency, replaced by utter barbarity .....

... as so many Muslim acts do.

Ah, but of course, 'none of them are Muslims'. Ho hum.as i have said before he seems to be, in the great minority that discredit the violence in the Qur'an as actions only relevant in Past times,

[Drummond]

as i have said before he seems to be, in the great minority that discredit the violence in the Qur'an as actions only relevant in Past times,

Which 'explains' how it is that they keep occurring in today's world ....

But, never mind. So many Muslims across the world have got it wrong (that's a heck of a lot of 'coincidences' ..), and Jafar has got it 'right'.

[aboutime]

I said the acts are not Islamic. Read again.



jafar. And you are still trying every possible method of excuses where you seem to be convinced. None of us recognize your proven, demonstrated forms of Insanity. Ya know? Where you try something once, it fails. So you try it again...convinced it will work???

You really should start paying attention to Marcus when he calls you a DUMB ASS. Funny how you keep proving it to be true.

[jafar00]

True. But I think I know a word that does.

ISLAMIC.

Evidence from scripture please. Your claim is bogus.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Evidence from scripture please. Your claim is bogus.

Evidence from real life trumps your bogus Holy book, dumb ass.

[fj1200]

True. But I think I know a word that does.

ISLAMIC.

Before Jafar steps in to deny that, I should remind him that there are plenty of comparable (.. well, sort of .. ??) barbarities committed by Muslims. Beheadings are an obvious example.

So it's you're contention that Islamists routinely cut out the hearts of their foes and have dinner?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So it's you're contention that Islamists routinely cut out the hearts of their foes and have dinner? One time is one time too many. How many times does a child molester have to do the deed to be a filthy child molester? Or a rapist rape to be a rapist? Or a murderer murder to be a murderer? The example was to show the mindset of the muslim Syrian rebels. To illustrate how low they already are and how low they can effortlessly go. Don't pretend that you didn't already know this.....Are you a contrarian by nature or do you have to practice a lot?-- :laugh: --Tyr

[fj1200]

One time is one time too many. How many times does a child molester have to do the deed to be a filthy child molester? Or a rapist rape to be a rapist? Or a murderer murder to be a murderer? The example was to show the mindset of the muslim Syrian rebels. To illustrate how low they already are and how low they can effortlessly go. Don't pretend that you didn't already know this.....Are you a contrarian by nature or do you have to practice a lot?-- :laugh: --Tyr

I suppose you only need to eat the heart of your enemy once to be considered a cannibal although multiple times would certainly dispel the excuse of accidental cannibalism. There's already plenty of evidence of the despicable acts that one doesn't need to proclaim every instance as evidence of those evil "Muzzies." Personally it shoots holes in your own argument IMO when you automatically go down the path of declaring every instance of despicable behavior as proof of how evil all Muslims are.

Besides, if I couldn't exercise my contrarian muscles you wouldn't have anyone to keep you in check. :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I suppose you only need to eat the heart of your enemy once to be considered a cannibal although multiple times would certainly dispel the excuse of accidental cannibalism. There's already plenty of evidence of the despicable acts that one doesn't need to proclaim every instance as evidence of those evil "Muzzies." Personally it shoots holes in your own argument IMO when you automatically go down the path of declaring every instance of despicable behavior as proof of how evil all Muslims are.

Besides, if I couldn't exercise my contrarian muscles you wouldn't have anyone to keep you in check. :poke: I remind people because the muslims have a non stop blitz of defense going for them by our media and our government 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I suppose it may actually serve a purpose in that I have been known to go on a rant on the very rare occasion now and then.;) However drawing a rusty blade on serves to speed me up so you had better sharpen it a tad. And that old nag you are riding could do with a new set of shoes too. :poke:

[fj1200]

I remind people because the muslims have a non stop blitz of defense going for them by our media and our government 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I suppose it may actually serve a purpose in that I have been known to go on a rant on the very rare occasion now and then.;) However drawing a rusty blade on serves to speed me up so you had better sharpen it a tad. And that old nag you are riding could do with a new set of shoes too. :poke:

Um, this is me blowing serves by you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRtELJoBsdU

:slap:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Um, this is me blowing serves by you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRtELJoBsdU

:slap: I don't play tennis , Hoss. I shoot things with pistol, rifle, shotgun and bow. Also throw knives and hatchets damn good too. Manly things my friend.;)

[fj1200]

I don't play tennis

Which explains why you're lagging so far behind. :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Which explains why you're lagging so far behind. :poke: Actually played a bit when a young man and wasn't too shabby. Just had too many other sticks in the fire so gave it up same as I did fishing. Concentrated on girls, gambling at pool, cards and shooting weapons. Believe me with the number of gals I had back then its a damn wonder I could even crowd in any of the other. Yet I managed because it brought me the mulla!! And actual mulla was as important as was the other treasure. ;)--Tyr

[jafar00]

One time is one time too many. How many times does a child molester have to do the deed to be a filthy child molester? Or a rapist rape to be a rapist? Or a murderer murder to be a murderer? The example was to show the mindset of the muslim Syrian rebels. To illustrate how low they already are and how low they can effortlessly go. Don't pretend that you didn't already know this.....Are you a contrarian by nature or do you have to practice a lot?-- :laugh: --Tyr

Which part of "The rebel Supreme Military Council called for Abu Sakkar's arrest, saying it wants him "dead or alive"" didn't you understand Tyr? When they catch him he will be put on trial for desecrating a corpse in such a horrible way.

Desecrating a corpse is a violation of Islamic law so your insistence on this being an Islamic act is lunacy!

I'm sorry if the following doesn't advance your agenda, but I do suggest you read it.


Religious Authority:
Faisal Mawlawi (http://www.islamopediaonline.org/profile/faisal-mawlawi)

Website URL:
http://www.islamonline.net (http://www.islamonline.net/)

Websites and Institutions:
Islam Online (http://www.islamopediaonline.org/websites-institutions/islam-online)



Wa`alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, thank you very much for having confidence in us, and we hope our efforts, which are purely for Allah's Sake, meet your expectations.

First of all, it is to be noted that Islam prohibits torturing living people and mutilating the dead, even if they are non-Muslims.

Responding to the question, Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, Deputy Chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, states the following:

First, it is not allowable to torture the living or mutilate the dead, even if they are non-Muslims. In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), when he was sending Hamzah Al-Aslami on an expedition, he instructed him saying: "If you find so-and-so, kill him. But never kill him by burning, for none uses fire in torturing except the One Who created it (i.e., Allah)." (Reported by Abu Dawud)

In another hadith, Safwan ibn `Assal said: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) sent us on an expedition and said: “Move under the protection of Allah and for the sake of Allah. Fight those who disbelieve in Allah but never mutilate (the dead).” (Reported by Ibn Majah)

Second, it is permissible to mutilate the dead only in case of retaliation. If anyone cuts the ear of another, his ear is to be cut in return. If he inflicts any physical damage on anyone, he should be retaliated against in the same manner. In case of war, Muslim are allowed to take vengeance for their mutilated dead mujahids (fighters) in the same way it was done to them. Almighty Allah says: (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient.) (An-Nahl 16: 126)

This verse was revealed when the polytheists mutilated the corpse of Hamzah ibn `Abd Al-Muttalib (may Allah be pleased with him). The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) swore to mutilate seventy corpses of the polytheists in retaliation for what they had done with Hamzah's body. Hence, this verse was revealed to indicate that punishment should be done in the same manner without any sort of transgression, so that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was permitted to mutilate only one corpse of the polytheists. However, the verse also shows that patience and refraining from retaliation are better in Allah's Sight. Thereupon, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refrained from it and did not mutilate anybody.

Moreover, Dr. Ahmad Abu-Al-Wafa, Professor of International Law, Faculty of Law at Cairo University, adds:

Mutilating the corpses of the dead is prohibited in man-made international law. It considers it a war crime for which severe penalty is due.

As far as Islamic Shari`ah is concerned, two main points should be stressed:

1. Mutilating corpses is prohibited in the same way torturing the living is forbidden.

2. It is better not to reply to the evil acts of the enemy in the same manner, except if responding in the same way will deter the enemy from exceeding their limits by mutilating corpses. Almighty Allah says: (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient) (An-Nahl 16: 126) and (The guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers.) (Ash-Shura 42: 40)

Finally, Sheikh `Ikrimah Sabri, the former Mufti of Al-Quds (Jerusalem) and Khateeb of Al-Aqsa Mosque, concludes:

In fact, the principle of reciprocity has well-established rules in Shari`ah, whereby Muslims are warned against embarking on such inhumane attitudes. For instance, if the enemy mutilates the dead bodies of Muslims, the Muslim army is not permitted to act in the same manner.

In all cases, Muslims should not initiate the aggression, for Islam is the religion of mercy. War is not the first option in the life of Muslims; rather, it comes after da`wah (call to Islam) and kind advice.

You can listen to the Friday Sermon delivered by Dr. Maher Hathout, at the Islamic Center of Southern California, US, titled: Mutilation of Dead Bodies from an Islamic Perspective, on April 2, 2004 Safar 12, 1425.

http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/multiple-religious-scholars-comment-impermissibility-mutilating-dead-bodies-enemies-times-war

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Which part of "The rebel Supreme Military Council called for Abu Sakkar's arrest, saying it wants him "dead or alive"" didn't you understand Tyr? When they catch him he will be put on trial for desecrating a corpse in such a horrible way.

Desecrating a corpse is a violation of Islamic law so your insistence on this being an Islamic act is lunacy!

I'm sorry if the following doesn't advance your agenda, but I do suggest you read it.


http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/multiple-religious-scholars-comment-impermissibility-mutilating-dead-bodies-enemies-times-war Jafar , talk to me about it when the dude is caught and after he is executed, maybe then I can agree with you on it. Until then its just words. --Tyr

[jafar00]

Jafar , talk to me about it when the dude is caught and after he is executed, maybe then I can agree with you on it. Until then its just words. --Tyr

I'm sure he is long gone, in hiding in another country. However if and when he is caught, I'm sure you and I will not hear about it in the MSM.

[Drummond]

So it's you're contention that Islamists routinely cut out the hearts of their foes and have dinner?

Some good replies to you precede mine.

But ... as for my own reply, I have this to quote back to you ... try READING it, this time ...


Before Jafar steps in to deny that, I should remind him that there are plenty of comparable (.. well, sort of .. ??) barbarities committed by Muslims. Beheadings are an obvious example

You conveniently 'overlooked' that part of my previous post, FJ. Fact is that, whether we're talking about eating peoples' hearts, or beheadings ... these barbarities DO HAPPEN, AND THEY KEEP HAPPENING.

So, it is my contention that savagery is rife in the Islamic world.

[fj1200]

Some good replies to you precede mine.

But ... as for my own reply, I have this to quote back to you ... try READING it, this time ...

It's called having a conversation; give it a try sometime. Besides, I knocked those replies out of the park. :poke:


You conveniently 'overlooked' that part of my previous post, FJ. Fact is that, whether we're talking about eating peoples' hearts, or beheadings ... these barbarities DO HAPPEN, AND THEY KEEP HAPPENING.

So, it is my contention that savagery is rife in the Islamic world.

I deem it as desperation to claim that any acts that are despicable are "Islamic" when it's clearly not the case. You weaken your position for your other contentions when you make such unfounded claims. And, IMO, give credence to Jafar's position that much of all the other despicable acts that you rail against aren't Islamic either. You don't need to stretch to give evidence of what's wrong in Islam yet you do so repeatedly.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's called having a conversation; give it a try sometime. Besides, I knocked those replies out of the park. :poke:



I deem it as desperation to claim that any acts that are despicable are "Islamic" when it's clearly not the case. You weaken your position for your other contentions when you make such unfounded claims. And, IMO, give credence to Jafar's position that much of all the other despicable acts that you rail against aren't Islamic either. You don't need to stretch to give evidence of what's wrong in Islam yet you do so repeatedly. Good grief FJ. What other group regularly employs beheadings , suicide bombings and stonings of innocent civilians? Also death penalty for gays-by hanging and the cutting off of hands or feet for petty crimes! Notice that I left out honor killings for a reason although they too are huge in Islam.. Go ahead name one such group and if you can not legitimately name one then Drummond 's primarily attributing such savagery to Islam is of course accurate and right. Think about it... -Tyr

[jafar00]

You conveniently 'overlooked' that part of my previous post, FJ. Fact is that, whether we're talking about eating peoples' hearts, or beheadings ... these barbarities DO HAPPEN, AND THEY KEEP HAPPENING.

So, it is my contention that savagery is rife in the Islamic world.

It is indeed unfortunate that there is such savagery during a civil war. There is nothing civil about a civil war and there is nothing Islamic about it either.

[aboutime]

It is indeed unfortunate that there is such savagery during a civil war. There is nothing civil about a civil war and there is nothing Islamic about it either.


jafar. As most of us already know. Because YOU come here to make such a statement, doesn't mean it's true. Once again. You sound like Obama. As someone who has told so many lies over the years. Even Obama is convinced...his lies are facts.

But, like Obama. Your problem is. Nobody buys your BULLCRAP here.

[fj1200]

Good grief FJ. What other group regularly employs beheadings , suicide bombings and stonings of innocent civilians? Also death penalty for gays-by hanging and the cutting off of hands or feet for petty crimes! Notice that I left out honor killings for a reason although they too are huge in Islam.. Go ahead name one such group and if you can not legitimately name one then Drummond 's primarily attributing such savagery to Islam is of course accurate and right. Think about it... -Tyr

Dude, comprehend my post please. Did I say that Islam didn't have issues? No, in fact I came right out and said that it in fact does. This thread is centered on the act of one man in Syria which gets automatically attributed to Islam because of who did it. Sometimes a despicable act is just a despicable act; it shouldn't be the newest meme to be used against Jafar every time he makes a post.

Follow up question: How do you leave something out and then mention it anyway. :poke:

[Drummond]

Good grief FJ. What other group regularly employs beheadings , suicide bombings and stonings of innocent civilians? Also death penalty for gays-by hanging and the cutting off of hands or feet for petty crimes! Notice that I left out honor killings for a reason although they too are huge in Islam.. Go ahead name one such group and if you can not legitimately name one then Drummond 's primarily attributing such savagery to Islam is of course accurate and right. Think about it... -Tyr:clap::clap:

Exactly !

[Drummond]

It is indeed unfortunate that there is such savagery during a civil war. There is nothing civil about a civil war and there is nothing Islamic about it either.

But here's the thing. If Islam is such a 'religion of peace', how come we keep seeing savage, subhuman acts by those who would claim to be loyal to Islam ? How does it occur ? How is it that there's no civilising effect from Islam, preventing it all, IF that's the case ???

No, Jafar, what we DO see is the opposite. Terrorist acts done in the name of Islam. Beheadings done in its furtherance. Now, we have what you yourself call civil war, savageries occurring as a part of it, this in a predominantly MUSLIM country.

You cannot claim that those doing all this represent other faiths. No, they are MUSLIMS - ACTING THE PART.

... and for all your efforts to sanitise your religion, Jafar, THE TRUTH KEEPS DEFYING YOU.

[fj1200]

:clap::clap:

Exactly !

:facepalm99:

[Jeff]

Check this out ,rebel forces in Syria commander carves out the heart of a dead government soldier to eat. Real not fake. Check the link .. This is the type of muslim terrorist bastards Obama now seeks to help win by striking Assad! ---------http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/ -----VIDEO* Syrian rebel cuts out soldiers heart and eats it *NSFW*<!-- Begin each blog post --> http://i0.wp.com/thelibertarianrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Screen-Shot-2013-06-17-at-5.37.12-PM.png?zoom=1.5&resize=600%2C250 (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/)

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A video report from May 15th shows the actions of the kinds of people who Senators Rubio, McCain and Graham are sending American taxpayer money to support. A Syrian rebel soldier cuts out the heart and liver of a soldier and appears to eat the heart chanting ”I swear to God we will eat your hearts out, you soldiers of Bashar. You dogs. God is greater!” the man says. “Heroes of Baba Amr … we will take out their hearts to eat them.”
A video report from CNN is here
And the alleged video is here. Remember: These are the people we are supporting with our tax dollars.
WARNING: GRAPHIC MATERIAL

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z9IRn5b0aik" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe> Sorry, video appears not to work, just click on link to view it.-Tyr http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/

Hey a little Garlic and some salt and they may be on to something :laugh: these animals are disgusting, I have seen this thread and stayed away because i like to make believe there arent such sick people in this world, but ya eventually have to admit it

[jafar00]

But here's the thing. If Islam is such a 'religion of peace', how come we keep seeing savage, subhuman acts by those who would claim to be loyal to Islam ? How does it occur ? How is it that there's no civilising effect from Islam, preventing it all, IF that's the case ???

No, Jafar, what we DO see is the opposite. Terrorist acts done in the name of Islam. Beheadings done in its furtherance. Now, we have what you yourself call civil war, savageries occurring as a part of it, this in a predominantly MUSLIM country.

You cannot claim that those doing all this represent other faiths. No, they are MUSLIMS - ACTING THE PART.

... and for all your efforts to sanitise your religion, Jafar, THE TRUTH KEEPS DEFYING YOU.

Then show me something from Islam that supports this?

[red states rule]

Then show me something from Islam that supports this?

Read the Quran asshole




The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-medina-persecution.htm) of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-mecca-tolerance.htm)). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-raid-caravans.htm) for loot.

Quran (3:56) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.056) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.074) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.076) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.089) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.095) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.015) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.039) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.057) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.059) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.065) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.014) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.020) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.030) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.038) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.041) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.042)) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.073) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.088) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/018-qmt.php#018.065) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/021-qmt.php#021.044) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/025-qmt.php#025.052) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.060) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.167)) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.051)), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.003) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.035) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.017) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.029) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.004) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.009)): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.010) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/066-qmt.php#066.009) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

[red states rule]

:clap::clap:

Exactly !

I am beginning to think FU was the asshole who convinced the Obama administration to drop the word terrorism and go with the phrase "man caused disaster" when discussing terrorism

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Dude, comprehend my post please. Did I say that Islam didn't have issues? No, in fact I came right out and said that it in fact does. This thread is centered on the act of one man in Syria which gets automatically attributed to Islam because of who did it. Sometimes a despicable act is just a despicable act; it shouldn't be the newest meme to be used against Jafar every time he makes a post.

Follow up question: How do you leave something out and then mention it anyway. :poke: Did I say you defended Islam or did I merely point out its atrocities that are a systematic campaign waged against its opponents? Since you agree those atrocities exist and you did not name another group engaging in them then I can only surmise that you have admitted Drummond was indeed correct on that point. Congrats on that.... :poke:--Tyr ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I mentioned honor killing anyways because it is such a savage and barbaric practice of attempting to win salvation by deeds instead of faith(making oneself and one's family pure enough). Left it off my original list because it deserves a special list all to itself. Did not want to jump thru those hoops again while discussing this specific subject.. You can appreciate not using a shovel when a teaspoon is more than adequate, right? ;)-Tyr

[fj1200]

I am beginning to think FU was the asshole who convinced the Obama administration to drop the word terrorism and go with the phrase "man caused disaster" when discussing terrorism

I see we get to endure another round of your special kind of stupid.

[fj1200]

Did I say you defended Islam or did I merely point out its atrocities that are a systematic campaign waged against its opponents? Since you agree those atrocities exist and you did not name another group engaging in them then I can only surmise that you have admitted Drummond was indeed correct on that point. Congrats on that.... :poke:--Tyr ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I mentioned honor killing anyways because it is such a savage and barbaric practice of attempting to win salvation by deeds instead of faith(making oneself and one's family pure enough). Left it off my original list because it deserves a special list all to itself. Did not want to jump thru those hoops again while discussing this specific subject.. You can appreciate not using a shovel when a teaspoon is more than adequate, right? ;)-Tyr

But you've already broken out the shovel because it is deep in here. :poke: Once again I'm having one conversation while those I'm conversing with are having a completely different one. There are bad things done under the guise of Islam, I don't recall ever having contradicted that yet that is what I'm constantly presented with. For me to concede that someone was correct implies that I disagreed with it in the first place. As I said before, it weakens your overall position when you have to make ridiculous claims like this; that when presented with ANY barbarity, the answer is always Islam.

[aboutime]

I see we get to endure another round of your special kind of stupid.

fj. Once again. Declaring someone who emulates you here, in order to make a point just seems kind of patronizing of you, when you should be applauding anyone who tries to be just like you.

[Drummond]

Then show me something from Islam that supports this?

Easy.

In fact, I don't have to show you .. you can show YOURSELF.

Just read the Hamas Charter, Jafar. It leaves the reader in absolutely no doubt that Hamas are fighting in the name of Islam, that they justify their acts through Islam, that they regard what they do as being in the service of Islam.

And, WHAT DO THEY DO ? THEY DO WHAT TERRORISTS DO ... MURDER AND MAIM THE INNOCENT !!

How's your support for them coming along ? I bet it's as strong as it ever was, eh ?

[aboutime]

Easy.

In fact, I don't have to show you .. you can show YOURSELF.

Just read the Hamas Charter, Jafar. It leaves the reader in absolutely no doubt that Hamas are fighting in the name of Islam, that they justify their acts through Islam, that they regard what they do as being in the service of Islam.

And, WHAT DO THEY DO ? THEY DO WHAT TERRORISTS DO ... MURDER AND MAIM THE INNOCENT !!

How's your support for them coming along ? I bet it's as strong as it ever was, eh ?



jafar. That is easy. Simply repeat this word, over and over again.....

jafar, jafar, jafar, jafar, jafar...... Get the picture? And the answer?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

But you've already broken out the shovel because it is deep in here. :poke: Once again I'm having one conversation while those I'm conversing with are having a completely different one. There are bad things done under the guise of Islam, I don't recall ever having contradicted that yet that is what I'm constantly presented with. For me to concede that someone was correct implies that I disagreed with it in the first place. As I said before, it weakens your overall position when you have to make ridiculous claims like this; that when presented with ANY barbarity, the answer is always Islam.

No, I present a different view and you claim its illegitimate and not related to the topic at hand. That is a form of dismissal that favors its author and gives cover to not address the counter given by the opponent. I hate to have to tell you this but its a well known and very much over used tactic of liberals. And is quite likely why you are accused of being one here. Which I am not concerned with now. As to the answer being also its Islam why not if the guilty party is a muslim. This ploy/excuse that those are not true muslims is getting damn old . If they believe in Allah, follow the Quran and claim Mohammad as the Prophet then they are muslim!! That broad general dodge and all its forms are bullshit that gives cover to be able to not admit the inherent evils that are the basis of Islam. Jafar uses that as a complete dodge and also as a method of avoiding the truth of the atrocities presented daily of Islam's murders and savagery. However you will when necessary will admit Islam has such savagery and a practice of wanton murder but then later often go the path of denying those proven atrocities can be used to portray Islam's true nature. You can not have it both ways Hoss. EITHER ITS INDICATIVE OF ISLAM'S TRUE WAY OR ITS NOT. Since Islam has been doing it for over 1400+ years I say it is ... you disagree but logic , history and current events all three stand on my side.-Tyr

[aboutime]

No, I present a different view and you claim its illegitimate and not related to the topic at hand. That is a form of dismissal that favors its author and gives cover to not address the counter given by the opponent. I hate to have to tell you this but its a well known and very much over used tactic of liberals. And is quite likely why you are accused of being one here. Which I am not concerned with now. As to the answer being also its Islam why not if the guilty party is a muslim. This ploy/excuse that those are not true muslims is getting damn old . If they believe in Allah, follow the Quran and claim Mohammad as the Prophet then they are muslim!! That broad general dodge and all its forms are bullshit that gives cover to be able to not admit the inherent evils that are the basis of Islam. Jafar uses that as a complete dodge and also as a method of avoiding the truth of the atrocities presented daily of Islam's murders and savagery. However you will when necessary will admit Islam has such savagery and a practice of wanton murder but then later often go the path of denying those proven atrocities can be used to portray Islam's true nature. You can not have it both ways Hoss. EITHER ITS INDICATIVE OF ISLAM'S TRUE WAY OR ITS NOT. Since Islam has been doing it for over 1400+ years I say it is ... you disagree but logic , history and current events all three stand on my side.-Tyr



Tyr. It appears fj has taken a turn for the worst...toward being another Robert wannabe replacement.

[jafar00]

Easy.

In fact, I don't have to show you .. you can show YOURSELF.

Just read the Hamas Charter, Jafar. It leaves the reader in absolutely no doubt that Hamas are fighting in the name of Islam, that they justify their acts through Islam, that they regard what they do as being in the service of Islam.

And, WHAT DO THEY DO ? THEY DO WHAT TERRORISTS DO ... MURDER AND MAIM THE INNOCENT !!

How's your support for them coming along ? I bet it's as strong as it ever was, eh ?

Hamas is doesn't represent Islam. The Hamas charter is only followed by Hamas.

I knew you'd fail.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hamas is doesn't represent Islam. The Hamas charter is only followed by Hamas.

I knew you'd fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
<tbody>
The neutrality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view) of this article is disputed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_dispute). Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hamas#.23). Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOVD#What_is_an_NPOV_dispute.3F). <small>(November 2012)</small>

</tbody>

<tbody>
Hamas
<small class="nickname"><big>حركة المقاومة الاسلامية</big></small>


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Small_hamas_logo.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Small_hamas_logo.gif)


Founder
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Ahmed_Yassin), Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdel_Aziz_al-Rantissi) & Mahmoud Zahar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Zahar)


Chief of the Political Bureau
Khaled Mashal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-Conflict-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-politburo-2)


Deputy Chief of the Political Bureau
Mousa Abu Marzouq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mousa_Mohammed_Abu_Marzook)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-Conflict-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-politburo-2)


Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_the_Palestinian_National_Authori ty)
Ismail Haniyah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Haniyah)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-Conflict-1)


Foreign Minister
Mahmoud Zahar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Zahar)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-Conflict-1)


Founded
1987 (1987)


Preceded by
Palestinian Muslim Brethren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brethren)


Headquarters
Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza), Palestinian territories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories)


Ideology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_ideologies)
Sunni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni) Islamism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-islamism-3)
Islamic fundamentalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fundamentalism),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-fundamentalism-4) Palestinian nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism)


Religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)
Sunni Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam)


International affiliation
Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)


Party flag


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Flag_of_Hamas.svg/200px-Flag_of_Hamas.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Hamas.svg)


Politics of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Palestine)
Political parties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Palestine)
Elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine)

</tbody>
Hamas (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): حماس‎ Ḥamās, "enthusiasm", an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, "Islamic Resistance Movement") is the Palestinian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Territories) Sunni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni) Islamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) or Islamist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-islamist.2Fislamic-5) organization, with an associated military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_ad-Din_al-Qassam_Brigades),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-6) located in the Palestinian territories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories).
Since June 2007 Hamas has governed the Gaza Strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip), after it won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Parliament) in the January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-BBC-Hamas-who-7) and then defeated the Fatah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah) political organization in a series of violent clashes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict#Conflict). Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), the United States,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-SD1-8) Canada,[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-9) the European Union,[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-eu-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-11) and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations),[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-fox1-12) while Iran, Russia,[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-13) Turkey,[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-14) and Arab nations do not.
Based on the principles of Islamic fundamentalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fundamentalism) gaining momentum throughout the Arab world in the 1980s, Hamas was founded in 1987 (during the First Intifada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada)) as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood).[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-WSJ-15)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-crs1993-16) Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Ahmed_Yassin) stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter) affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic) in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-17)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-18) However, in July 2009, Khaled Meshal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Meshal), Hamas's political bureau chief, said the organization was willing to cooperate with "a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict which included a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_borders)", provided that Palestinian refugees hold the right to return to Israel and that East Jerusalem be the new nation's capital.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-19)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-20)
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas affiliated military wing, has launched attacks on Israel, against both military and civilian targets. Attacks on civilian targets have included rocket attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel) and, from 1993 to 2006, suicide bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks).[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-guardian.co.uk-21) Military targets included Israeli outposts and border crossings and rival Palestinian militias in the occupied territories.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-22) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^^^ Kinda puts to shame your claim of Hamas not being Islamists doesn't it? --Tyr or try this one ----------------------------------------------------- http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html

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http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/images/documents.jpg (http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/document.html)






Hamas Charter (1988)

The Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)

“In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed, it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-doers. They will not harm you save a trifling hurt, and if they fight against you they will turn and flee. And afterward they will not be helped. Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save [where they grasp] a rope from Allah and a rope from man. They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the Prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress.” Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111 Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors. The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others. Introduction
Grace to Allah, whose help we seek, whose forgiveness we beseech, whose guidance we implore and on whom we rely. We pray and bid peace upon the Messenger of Allah, his family, his companions, his followers and those who spread his message and followed his tradition; they will last as long as there exist Heaven and Earth. O, people! In the midst of misadventure, from the depth of suffering, from the believing hearts and purified arms; aware of our duty and in response to the decree of Allah, we direct our call, we rally together and join each other. We educate in the path of Allah and we make our firm determination prevail so as to take its proper role in life, to overcome all difficulties and to cross all hurdles. Hence our permanent state of preparedness and our readiness to sacrifice our souls and dearest [possessions] in the path of Allah. Thus, our nucleus has formed which chartered its way in the tempestuous ocean of creeds and hopes, desires and wishes, dangers and difficulties, setbacks and challenges, both internal and external. When the thought matured, the seed grew and the plant took root in the land of reality, detached from temporary emotion and unwelcome haste, the Islamic Resistance Movement erupted in order to play its role in the path of its Lord. In so doing, it joined its hands with those of all Jihad fighters for the purpose of liberating Palestine. The souls of its Jihad fighters will encounter those of all Jihad fighters who have sacrificed their lives in the land of Palestine since it was conquered by the Companion of the Prophet, be Allah’s prayer and peace upon him, and until this very day. This is the Charter of the Islamic Resistance (Hamas) which will reveal its face, unveil its identity, state its position, clarify its purpose, discuss its hopes, call for support to its cause and reinforcement, and for joining its ranks. For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”
Part I - Knowing the Movement
Article One: The Ideological Aspects
The Islamic Resistance Movement draws its guidelines from Islam; derives from it its thinking, interpretations and views about existence, life and humanity; refers back to it for its conduct; and is inspired by it in whatever step it takes.

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[Drummond]

Hamas is doesn't represent Islam. The Hamas charter is only followed by Hamas.

I knew you'd fail.

Ah, so now Hamas isn't Islamic .... :laugh::laugh:

The Hamas Charter is - if you believe what it says, or are Hamas lying ?? - grounded in Islam. It's meant to be a Charter by which Hamas fights a fight appropriate to Islamic goals.

Unless they're telling untruths, Jafar ?

And you SUPPORT them ?

Perhaps you should explain to us, if you're now saying that Hamas isn't Islamic, just how big a percentage of those people who say they're Islamic, actually AREN'T ? Because we KEEP coming across this difficulty, don't we, Jafar, that more and more Muslims somehow 'aren't Islamic' .....:laugh2::laugh2:

[And you claim that I fail .. ?]

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Ah, so now Hamas isn't Islamic .... :laugh::laugh:

The Hamas Charter is - if you believe what it says, or are Hamas lying ?? - grounded in Islam. It's meant to be a Charter by which Hamas fights a fight appropriate to Islamic goals.

Unless they're telling untruths, Jafar ?

And you SUPPORT them ?

Perhaps you should explain to us, if you're now saying that Hamas isn't Islamic, just how big a percentage of those people who say they're Islamic, actually AREN'T ? Because we KEEP coming across this difficulty, don't we, Jafar, that more and more Muslims somehow 'aren't Islamic' .....:laugh2::laugh2:

[And you claim that I fail .. ?] Methinks Jafar needs to square his support of a group he claims is not of Islam that also engages in terrorist attacks to further the goals of Islam. Man , what a fine web he weaves when he practices to deceive..;)--Tyr

[jafar00]

Ah, so now Hamas isn't Islamic .... :laugh::laugh:

The Hamas Charter is - if you believe what it says, or are Hamas lying ?? - grounded in Islam. It's meant to be a Charter by which Hamas fights a fight appropriate to Islamic goals.

Unless they're telling untruths, Jafar ?

And you SUPPORT them ?

Perhaps you should explain to us, if you're now saying that Hamas isn't Islamic, just how big a percentage of those people who say they're Islamic, actually AREN'T ? Because we KEEP coming across this difficulty, don't we, Jafar, that more and more Muslims somehow 'aren't Islamic' .....:laugh2::laugh2:

[And you claim that I fail .. ?]

Your evidence that Islam supports such atrocities is the Hamas Charter which is laughable.

I don't follow Hamas's charter. I follow Islam which is the Qur'aan and the Sunna of the Prophet Mohamed (saw). Hamas's charter is only followed by Hamas. How many times do I need to say that? The nutter in the OP isn't Hamas either so I have no idea why you even brought it up.

[tailfins]

Syria is not important, neither is Islam. Iran is driving all this and it is they who should be attacked. However, nation building as Bush did is not a good goal. Iran should be destroyed, abandoned, then warned that another wave of destruction will be the reward for verifiable assistance to terrorist actions.

I agree with this editorial from the New Hampshire Union Leader:


In 2007, Obama was brimming with indignation that the United States would go to war without the approval of Congress. Now he is preparing to do exactly that for the second time. With Syria, it is for the worst reason: so the President can save face.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130829/OPINION01/130829176/0/newhampshire

[Drummond]

Methinks Jafar needs to square his support of a group he claims is not of Islam that also engages in terrorist attacks to further the goals of Islam. Man , what a fine web he weaves when he practices to deceive..;)--Tyr:clap::clap:

Couldn't agree more, Tyr.

Besides, this is getting ridiculous .. at this rate, within a month or so, Jafar will be claiming that only about five percent of Muslims are really Islamic ...

[Drummond]

Your evidence that Islam supports such atrocities is the Hamas Charter which is laughable.

I don't follow Hamas's charter. I follow Islam which is the Qur'aan and the Sunna of the Prophet Mohamed (saw). Hamas's charter is only followed by Hamas. How many times do I need to say that? The nutter in the OP isn't Hamas either so I have no idea why you even brought it up.

I look forward, Jafar - you being a SUPPORTER of theirs, and all - to your telling Hamas that they're not Islamic !

Do you think you'd ever have the nerve to try it ?

The thing of it is, Jafar, that judging by their Charter, Hamas regard themselves as something of a standard-bearer for TRUE Islam !!

Anyway, here's some stuff from the Charter, straight from the link Tyr offered.. Articles 7 and 8 are interesting .. see the bits I highlight ...


Article Seven: The Universality of Hamas

By virtue of the distribution of Muslims, who pursue the cause of the Hamas, all over the globe, and strive for its victory, for the reinforcement of its positions and for the encouragement of its Jihad, the Movement is a universal one. It is apt to be that due to the clarity of its thinking, the nobility of its purpose and the loftiness of its objectives. It is in this light that the Movement has to be regarded, evaluated and acknowledged. Whoever denigrates its worth, or avoids supporting it, or is so blind as to dismiss its role, is challenging Fate itself. Whoever closes his eyes from seeing the facts, whether intentionally or not, will wake up to find himself overtaken by events, and will find no excuses to justify his position. Priority is reserved to the early comers. Oppressing those who are closest to you, is more of an agony to the soul than the impact of an Indian sword. “And unto thee have we revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which has come unto thee. For each we have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed, He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which he has given you [He has made you as you are]. So vie with one another in good works. Unto Allah, you will all return. He will then inform you of that wherein you differ.” Hamas is one of the links in the Chain of Jihad in the confrontation with the Zionist invasion. It links up with the setting out of the Martyr Izz a-din al-Qassam and his brothers in the Muslim Brotherhood who fought the Holy War in 1936; it further relates to another link of the Palestinian Jihad and the Jihad and efforts of the Muslim Brothers during the 1948 War, and to the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brothers in 1968 and thereafter. But even if the links have become distant from each other, and even if the obstacles erected by those who revolve in the Zionist orbit, aiming at obstructing the road before the Jihad fighters, have rendered the pursuance of Jihad impossible; nevertheless, the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).


Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas

Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.

Jafar, Article Eight didn't even need to be bolded .... it's completely unequivoval in its total opposition to any 'peaceful' interpretation of Islam, and it stands in complete defiance of what you yourself claim for Islam.

So tell us, how's that SUPPORT for Hamas coming along ??

You try to paint the Hamas Charter as being just for Hamas. BUT, note what Hamas themselves say about their links to others, for example, THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD. They also talk about Muslims 'ACROSS THE GLOBE' ... explain that one, Jafar, if their interpretation of Islam is so isolated and unrepresentative of others !

Judging by Article 7, Hamas consider that Mohammed himself (i.e the paedophilic figurehead of Islam) said that Muslims would come together to fight Jews .. see the wording for yourself ! So tell me, did Mohammed, or did he not, preach racial intolerance and 'Jihad' against Jews, as a commandment meant to unite Muslims in common purpose under JIHAD ??

.. AND ... ISN'T THIS WHAT HAMAS IS ALL ABOUT ?

Jafar, really, you need to reconcile your disdain of terrorists with your support of a bunch of them who think that THEY are the standard-bearers of Islamic ambition .. and how, despite all that they stand for, you say that YOU don't see them as Islamic !!

It doesn't make the slightest sense, now does it, Jafar ??

[aboutime]

Your evidence that Islam supports such atrocities is the Hamas Charter which is laughable.

I don't follow Hamas's charter. I follow Islam which is the Qur'aan and the Sunna of the Prophet Mohamed (saw). Hamas's charter is only followed by Hamas. How many times do I need to say that? The nutter in the OP isn't Hamas either so I have no idea why you even brought it up.


jafar. WRONG AGAIN. The one, and only thing that is Honestly Laughable here is EVERY POST YOU MAKE, where you are convinced everyone will roll over, and take your word for everything.
Too bad for you, but. TOO MANY OF US recognize Propaganda, and Lies instantly.
And your practice of Repeating that Propaganda, and all those lies is nothing but INSANITY, being tried, and tried again. And failing every time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

jafar. WRONG AGAIN. The one, and only thing that is Honestly Laughable here is EVERY POST YOU MAKE, where you are convinced everyone will roll over, and take your word for everything.
Too bad for you, but. TOO MANY OF US recognize Propaganda, and Lies instantly.
And your practice of Repeating that Propaganda, and all those lies is nothing but INSANITY, being tried, and tried again. And failing every time. Jafar is mixing his nuts and bolts with his glue and staples again.. I think maybe Drummond has scored too many hits on his battleship....:banana:

[jafar00]

I look forward, Jafar - you being a SUPPORTER of theirs, and all - to your telling Hamas that they're not Islamic !

Do you think you'd ever have the nerve to try it ?

The thing of it is, Jafar, that judging by their Charter, Hamas regard themselves as something of a standard-bearer for TRUE Islam !!

Anyway, here's some stuff from the Charter, straight from the link Tyr offered.. Articles 7 and 8 are interesting .. see the bits I highlight ...



Jafar, Article Eight didn't even need to be bolded .... it's completely unequivoval in its total opposition to any 'peaceful' interpretation of Islam, and it stands in complete defiance of what you yourself claim for Islam.

So tell us, how's that SUPPORT for Hamas coming along ??

You try to paint the Hamas Charter as being just for Hamas. BUT, note what Hamas themselves say about their links to others, for example, THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD. They also talk about Muslims 'ACROSS THE GLOBE' ... explain that one, Jafar, if their interpretation of Islam is so isolated and unrepresentative of others !

Judging by Article 7, Hamas consider that Mohammed himself (i.e the paedophilic figurehead of Islam) said that Muslims would come together to fight Jews .. see the wording for yourself ! So tell me, did Mohammed, or did he not, preach racial intolerance and 'Jihad' against Jews, as a commandment meant to unite Muslims in common purpose under JIHAD ??

.. AND ... ISN'T THIS WHAT HAMAS IS ALL ABOUT ?

Jafar, really, you need to reconcile your disdain of terrorists with your support of a bunch of them who think that THEY are the standard-bearers of Islamic ambition .. and how, despite all that they stand for, you say that YOU don't see them as Islamic !!

It doesn't make the slightest sense, now does it, Jafar ??[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

Hamas has their charter. Whoopee for them. I still don't see how it made the guy in the OP eat dead soldier's heart.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:clap::clap:

Couldn't agree more, Tyr.

Besides, this is getting ridiculous .. at this rate, within a month or so, Jafar will be claiming that only about five percent of Muslims are really Islamic ... I am guessing he'll go down to one percent. And maybe even lower. --Tyr

[Drummond]

I am guessing he'll go down to one percent. And maybe even lower. --Tyr

.. You never know.

I wonder if he'll end up including the Prophet Mohammed ... ? He might as well, at this rate .... :laugh::laugh:

[Drummond]

Hamas has their charter. Whoopee for them. I still don't see how it made the guy in the OP eat dead soldier's heart.

H'm. I won't bother asking you if this was 'the best answer you can manage', Jafar, because we know that it was.

My answer to the above is simply this: once you get below a certain level of humanity, or decency, or sense of civilised behaviour ... as is true, in spades, for your average bloodthirsty Muslim terrorist savage (!!!) ... then you have to wonder what extent of subhumanity is still beyond them ..

Sadly, I've no answer for that, other than to wonder if anything IS.

Does that answer you, Jafar ?

Talking of bloodthirsty savages, how's your support for Hamas coming along ?

[fj1200]

No, I present a different view and you claim its illegitimate and not related to the topic at hand. That is a form of dismissal that favors its author and gives cover to not address the counter given by the opponent. I hate to have to tell you this but its a well known and very much over used tactic of liberals. And is quite likely why you are accused of being one here. Which I am not concerned with now. As to the answer being also its Islam why not if the guilty party is a muslim. This ploy/excuse that those are not true muslims is getting damn old . If they believe in Allah, follow the Quran and claim Mohammad as the Prophet then they are muslim!! That broad general dodge and all its forms are bullshit that gives cover to be able to not admit the inherent evils that are the basis of Islam. Jafar uses that as a complete dodge and also as a method of avoiding the truth of the atrocities presented daily of Islam's murders and savagery. However you will when necessary will admit Islam has such savagery and a practice of wanton murder but then later often go the path of denying those proven atrocities can be used to portray Islam's true nature. You can not have it both ways Hoss. EITHER ITS INDICATIVE OF ISLAM'S TRUE WAY OR ITS NOT. Since Islam has been doing it for over 1400+ years I say it is ... you disagree but logic , history and current events all three stand on my side.-Tyr

Again, this is what I'm talking about. I didn't claim it was illegitimate but it is unrelated to the topic at hand IMO. The problem with your logic is EVERYTHING is lumped into your category regardless of where it comes from.

And not the "liberal" gambit again. Oy!!!

[fj1200]

Just read the Hamas Charter, Jafar.

Does it have a recipe section?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Again, this is what I'm talking about. I didn't claim it was illegitimate but it is unrelated to the topic at hand IMO. The problem with your logic is EVERYTHING is lumped into your category regardless of where it comes from.

And not the "liberal" gambit again. Oy!!! Wow, are those Syrian rebels muslim or are they Hindu, Christian or of the Jewish faith??? THOSE MUSLIM TERORISTS GROUPS FIGHTING ARENT DOING IT FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. They are doing it for Islam so my comments are related to the topic at hand. For you to deny that speaks clearly IMHO. Name another group fighting there other than muslims! Besides us if bamscum gets his way.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

Does it have a recipe section?

You mean, did GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters, based in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK) hack the Hamas site and leave a recipe for cupcakes instead of bombmaking instructions, just as they successfully did to an Al Qaeda site ??

I don't know. But I definitely wish GCHQ every success in such an endeavour ......:laugh2::laugh2:

[aboutime]

Who wants to be the one to tell that Syrian Rebel....that wasn't his heart?

Funny how easily terrorists are convinced to do stupid things, like chewing on a RECTUM!

[jafar00]

Wow, are those Syrian rebels muslim or are they Hindu, Christian or of the Jewish faith??? THOSE MUSLIM TERORISTS GROUPS FIGHTING ARENT DOING IT FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. They are doing it for Islam so my comments are related to the topic at hand. For you to deny that speaks clearly IMHO. Name another group fighting there other than muslims! Besides us if bamscum gets his way.. -Tyr

Are you blaming them for being Muslims in a majority Muslim country turned warzone? seriously?

Back to topic, how does eating someone's heart relate to Islam? If anything, it relates to a famous pagan incident in pre-Islamic times when Hind bint 'Utbah ate Mohamed's (saw) Uncle Hamza's liver. She later embraced Islam though after her husband Abu Sofian did so and was forgiven.

[aboutime]

Are you blaming them for being Muslims in a majority Muslim country turned warzone? seriously?

Back to topic, how does eating someone's heart relate to Islam? If anything, it relates to a famous pagan incident in pre-Islamic times when Hind bint 'Utbah ate Mohamed's (saw) Uncle Hamza's liver. She later embraced Islam though after her husband Abu Sofian did so and was forgiven.


jafar. No need for any of us to blame them for anything. The daily facts we read, see, and hear about those you defend so much. Says just about all we need to read, see, and hear.
Until you come up with another excuse to defend them.

[red states rule]

Wow, are those Syrian rebels muslim or are they Hindu, Christian or of the Jewish faith??? THOSE MUSLIM TERORISTS GROUPS FIGHTING ARENT DOING IT FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. They are doing it for Islam so my comments are related to the topic at hand. For you to deny that speaks clearly IMHO. Name another group fighting there other than muslims! Besides us if bamscum gets his way.. -Tyr

FU has a simple solution when it comes to dealing with terrorists and terrorism

http://countercultureconservative.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/taliban-appeasement.jpg

[red states rule]

Hamas is doesn't represent Islam. The Hamas charter is only followed by Hamas.

I knew you'd fail.

and I knew you would ignore this




The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-medina-persecution.htm) of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-mecca-tolerance.htm)). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-raid-caravans.htm) for loot.

Quran (3:56) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.056) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.074) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.076) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.089) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.095) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.015) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.039) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.057) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.059) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.065) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.014) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.020) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.030) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.038) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.041) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.042)) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.073) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.088) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/018-qmt.php#018.065) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/021-qmt.php#021.044) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/025-qmt.php#025.052) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.060) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.167)) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.051)), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.003) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.035) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.017) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.029) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.004) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.009)): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.010) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/066-qmt.php#066.009) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/qu...3-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)

[fj1200]

Wow, are those Syrian rebels muslim or are they Hindu, Christian or of the Jewish faith??? THOSE MUSLIM TERORISTS GROUPS FIGHTING ARENT DOING IT FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. They are doing it for Islam so my comments are related to the topic at hand. For you to deny that speaks clearly IMHO. Name another group fighting there other than muslims! Besides us if bamscum gets his way.. -Tyr

Same old saw I see.


You mean, did GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters, based in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK) hack the Hamas site and leave a recipe for cupcakes instead of bombmaking instructions, just as they successfully did to an Al Qaeda site ??

I don't know. But I definitely wish GCHQ every success in such an endeavour ......:laugh2::laugh2:

What no recipe for heart? Color me shocked.

[fj1200]

FU has a simple solution when it comes to dealing with terrorists and terrorism

I think FU's solution is to let them have you first. Your special brand of stupid and hatred in your heart makes for an especially tasty soup... at least that's what the Hamas charter says... or so I've heard.

[jafar00]

and I knew you would ignore this

And every single one of these is quoted our of context and read at literal face value which is entirely wrong. It is the same way that Salafi groups like Al Qaeda read it. Do you work for them? If you have one or two verses you would like me to explain in more detail, please say so. I am not going to spend hours explaining that whole list you spent 5 seconds copy/pasting from your favourite hate site.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

FU has a simple solution when it comes to dealing with terrorists and terrorism

http://countercultureconservative.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/taliban-appeasement.jpg A truly great one my friend!! However, the guy needs to be much smaller and the beast vastly much larger...... ;)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Same old saw I see.
Same old record I see. Try playing it in reverse for a change. ;)--Tyr

[fj1200]

Same old record I see. Try playing it in reverse for a change. ;)--Tyr

I'll give it a try, it might actually make sense. :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Are you blaming them for being Muslims in a majority Muslim country turned warzone? seriously?
. No, just explaining to fj why my comments on Islam are relevant to the topic at hand. Its a war in the ME that is being fought by muslims! Why wouldn't my comments on Islam be relevant? fj seems to like to toss a quart of motor oil into a perfectly good pot of stew.. :laugh:--Tyr

[fj1200]

No, just explaining to fj why my comments on Islam are relevant to the topic at hand. Its a war in the ME that is being fought by muslims! Why wouldn't my comments on Islam be relevant? fj seems to like to toss a quart of motor oil into a perfectly good pot of stew.. :laugh:--Tyr

The fact that everyone involved is a Muslim is pretty much why it's irrelevant.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The fact that everyone involved is a Muslim is pretty much why it's irrelevant. Assbackwards bro'. That's why my comments on Islam are very relevant. Bamscum getting us involved makes ALL of it relevant. The Great Uniter couldn't even get a three nation coalition together! Everything about this guy being so damn brilliantly wonderful and great was hyped up bullshit from start to finish, just as I said it was from the start.-Tyr

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=661480#post661480) Then show me something from Islam that supports this?
Read the Quran asshole



The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-medina-persecution.htm) of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-mecca-tolerance.htm)). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-raid-caravans.htm) for loot.

Quran (3:56) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.056) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.074) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.076) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.089) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.095) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.015) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.039) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.057) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.059) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.065) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.014) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.020) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.030) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.038) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.041) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.042)) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.073) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.088) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/018-qmt.php#018.065) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/021-qmt.php#021.044) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/025-qmt.php#025.052) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.060) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/003-qmt.php#003.167)) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.051)), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.003) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/047-qmt.php#047.035) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.017) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.029) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.004) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.009)): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/061-qmt.php#061.010) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/066-qmt.php#066.009) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/qu...3-violence.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm)

Here... I'll be Jahil for a second...


Those are all bad translations, not the original Arabic.

Those are all out of context.

They only apply to those specific times, not the future.

Those are all form an Islamic hate site.

You don't understand what you are reading, only I understand what you're reading.



Sounds just like him, eh?:laugh:

[fj1200]

Assbackwards bro'. That's why my comments on Islam are very relevant. Bamscum getting us involved makes ALL of it relevant. The Great Uniter couldn't even get a three nation coalition together! Everything about this guy being so damn brilliantly wonderful and great was hyped up bullshit from start to finish, just as I said it was from the start.-Tyr


The Australian War Crimes Section of the Tokyo tribunal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_tribunal), led by prosecutor William Webb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Webb_(judge)) (the future Judge-in-Chief), collected numerous written reports and testimonies that documented Japanese soldiers' acts of cannibalism among their own troops, on enemy dead, and on Allied prisoners of war in many parts of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere). In September 1942, Japanese daily rations on New Guinea consisted of 800 grams of rice and tinned meat. However, by December, this had fallen to 50 grams.[86] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#cite_note-happell-86):78–80 According to historian Yuki Tanaka, "cannibalism was often a systematic activity conducted by whole squads and under the command of officers".[87]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#cite_note-87)In some cases, flesh was cut from living people. An Indian POW, Lance Naik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Naik) Hatam Ali (later a citizen of Pakistan), testified that in New Guinea: "the Japanese started selecting prisoners and every day one prisoner was taken out and killed and eaten by the soldiers. I personally saw this happen and about 100 prisoners were eaten at this place by the Japanese. The remainder of us were taken to another spot 50 miles (80 kilometres) away where 10 prisoners died of sickness. At this place, the Japanese again started selecting prisoners to eat. Those selected were taken to a hut where their flesh was cut from their bodies while they were alive and they were thrown into a ditch where they later died."[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#cite_note-88)

Damn Muslims... I mean... wait... what???

But thanks for whipping out the BO trump card.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlDbv7MqE8

[fj1200]

Sounds just like him, eh?:laugh:

It's a good thing that Christians are burdened by issues like varying translations and questions of context. We're all on the same page.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Damn Muslims... I mean... wait... what???

But thanks for whipping out the BO trump card.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlDbv7MqE8

Bullshit. That the best you can do to try to lessen the impact of the muslim scum's savagery? Cite what some damn Japs did during WW2? Japs that only had an Emperor God to worship? Japs that murdered over a million Chinese citizens! So what did it prove other than another group worshipped a false god-( the emperor) and acted as barbarians?--Tyr

[fj1200]

Bullshit. That the best you can do to try to lessen the impact of the muslim scum's savagery? Cite what some damn Japs did during WW2? Japs that only had an Emperor God to worship? Japs that murdered over a million Chinese citizens! So what did it prove other than another group worshipped a false god-( the emperor) and acted as barbarians?--Tyr

It proved what I wanted it to prove.

[fj1200]

Face-to-face with Abu Sakkar, Syria's 'heart-eating cannibal' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533)
Didn't notice anything in there about the glory of Islam.

[jafar00]

Face-to-face with Abu Sakkar, Syria's 'heart-eating cannibal' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533)


Didn't notice anything in there about the glory of Islam.

From that it appears that he has been psychologically scarred from such terrible warfare. I would challenge any person on this forum to remain sane after going through some of the stuff he went through.

[aboutime]

From that it appears that he has been psychologically scarred from such terrible warfare. I would challenge any person on this forum to remain sane after going through some of the stuff he went through.


Wow, jafar. Once again. It didn't take you long to create another EXCUSE for someone like that. Bet you really admire his TASTE as well.

[red states rule]

A truly great one my friend!! However, the guy needs to be much smaller and the beast vastly much larger...... ;)

But it does sum up FU Perfectly

However by posting that picture, I did finally push FU over the line. He is now an official AKC registered Obama lap dog and joined the ranks of Gabby like liberals.

FU has now joined Virgil by wishing death on me simply because of a difference of opinion on damn near all topics. The next time FU denies the obvious - he is an Obama lap dog - you know he is also a serial liar

[red states rule]

Bullshit. That the best you can do to try to lessen the impact of the muslim scum's savagery? Cite what some damn Japs did during WW2? Japs that only had an Emperor God to worship? Japs that murdered over a million Chinese citizens! So what did it prove other than another group worshipped a false god-( the emperor) and acted as barbarians?--Tyr

This is FU at his "best" Try. I see FU boasted he proved what he wanted to prove

Did I miss it or did someone doubt FU was an f'n asshole? Why did he have to prove something that has never been disputed by anyone here?

[fj1200]

But it does sum up FU Perfectly

However by posting that picture, I did finally push FU over the line. He is now an official AKC registered Obama lap dog and joined the ranks of Gabby like liberals.

FU has now joined Virgil by wishing death on me simply because of a difference of opinion on damn near all topics. The next time FU denies the obvious - he is an Obama lap dog - you know he is also a serial liar

:laugh: Quite the martyr you are. Nevertheless your desperation to be relevant is showing again. I'd ask you to back up your claims of my BO positions but I know you would run like... well, you know... ;) Your failure is legendary.


This is FU at his "best" Try. I see FU boasted he proved what he wanted to prove

Did I miss it or did someone doubt FU was an f'n asshole? Why did he have to prove something that has never been disputed by anyone here?

FU only proved the obvious, one less dense than you would recognize the truth... oh my mistake, truth is not something you know much about. But I digress, commence with the cartoons.

[Arbo]

TOO MANY OF US recognize Propaganda, and Lies instantly.
And your practice of Repeating that Propaganda, and all those lies is nothing but INSANITY, being tried, and tried again. And failing every time.

My irony meter done blowed up. :laugh:

[jafar00]

Wow, jafar. Once again. It didn't take you long to create another EXCUSE for someone like that. Bet you really admire his TASTE as well.

What excuse? The article just confirms he is a loony. I also said he was a loony. Get over it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

And every single one of these is quoted our of context and read at literal face value which is entirely wrong. It is the same way that Salafi groups like Al Qaeda read it. Do you work for them? If you have one or two verses you would like me to explain in more detail, please say so. I am not going to spend hours explaining that whole list you spent 5 seconds copy/pasting from your favourite hate site.

So, you're saying the Quran should not be taken literally. Thanks for admitting your 'Holy Book' should not be believed.

[Arbo]

So, you're saying the Quran should not be taken literally. Thanks for admitting your 'Holy Book' should not be believed.

So it is on the same level as the Bible. Do not take it literally, or just skip the parts that are not liked. LOL

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Face-to-face with Abu Sakkar, Syria's 'heart-eating cannibal' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533)
Didn't notice anything in there about the glory of Islam. The guy lies. I could still break him like a twig and I am 59 years old. These cowardly bastards are not great warriors , they murder and torture unarmed women and children . The article tries to make that damn maggot look like a hero. We both go into a room unarmed, I'd be the only one walking out. Being evil does not make a great fighter. What makes a great fighter/warrior is that "very special spirit" deep within your soul. Those that do not have it will never know and it can not be taught. You either are born with it or not.. --Tyr

[jafar00]

The guy lies. I could still break him like a twig and I am 59 years old. These cowardly bastards are not great warriors , they murder and torture unarmed women and children . The article tries to make that damn maggot look like a hero. We both go into a room unarmed, I'd be the only one walking out. Being evil does not make a great fighter. What makes a great fighter/warrior is that "very special spirit" deep within your soul. Those that do not have it will never know and it can not be taught. You either are born with it or not.. --Tyr

Easy on the Tongkat Ali there Butch. That stuff raises your testosterone levels.