Business as usual on the National Debt front

[Little-Acorn]

As you know (or maybe you don't) we hit the National Debt ceiling back in May. And a month or two before that, sequestration cut things back some. So the National Debt now is no higher than it was in mid-February.

But it's not because our government has suddenly come to its senses and started doing things responsibly. They've been draining various Federal retirement accounts ever since sequestration hit in April.

This is an act that would get any CFO or financial person in any private or public company in American, thrown in prison for fraud (or worse). But people in government, get a free pass on such activity. What they haven't done, is reduce spending. Not even a little bit.

Oddest thing about it is that the media hasn't said a word.

It's actually the biggest scandal since Teapot Dome, other than the fact that nobody has died so there are no sobbing mothers the press can put on the 7:00 news.

When they say "We'll run out of money in October" or whenever the latest prediction is, they actually mean we'll run out of accounts we can illegally steal from.

They figure that when the TEA Party Republicans cave, they can borrow a $trillion overnight (might be closer to $2 trillion by October), pay back all those accounts, and no one will be the wiser.

Just one thing: What if the TEA Party Republicans don't cave?

[PostmodernProphet]

apparently the left assumes that the public will blame the Republicans because that's who they blamed in '95...obviously it takes two to create a gridlock, but is the public intelligent enough to realize that.....

[Little-Acorn]

By the way, one of the biggest expenses in the entire Federal budget, is Interest on the National Debt. It's been around $450 billion a year, for years now.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/federal_govt_finances_employment/federal_budget--receipts_outlays_and_debt.html

That's around $1,400 per year for every man, woman, and child in America.

Or more than $5,000 per year for every family of four.

And that amount DOES come from your tax money. Every year.

And the $5,000/yr buys nothing. Except the privilege of maintaining the huge debt the govt has racked up.

Were you wondering why your household budget doesn't seem to go very far any more?

Now you know.

[Little-Acorn]

Can you imagine what would happen if the media started reporting the truth here?

That the government has already spent all the money in the Social Security Trust fund, and is now draining all the other Federal trust funds for retirements etc., while not cutting spending even a nickel?

And that these activities would causes the perps to be jailed for fraud and embezzlement if they were being done anywhere in the country, other than the Fed govt? (Does "high crimes and misdemeanors" ring a bell?)

And that the Fed will have to borrow nearly $2 trillion, virtually instantly, once Congress raises the debt ceiling, just to pay back what they've taken? Plus more to continue their free-spending ways?

Yeah, I know, such reporting will never happen. But just think of the uproar....

[Little-Acorn]

BTW, the National Debt STILL isn't rising, and hasn't appreciably risen since last March.

And the Federal retirement accounts and other "Trust" funds the Fed has been quietly draining every since we hit the Debt Ceiling, are just about empty now.

Something unpleasant is going to happen very soon.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/politics-other-controversies/118259d1379607863-business-usual-debt-front-natldebt02feb2013-17sep2013.gif

[fj1200]

Something unpleasant is going to happen very soon.

Do you mean unpleasant in the way of the DL being raised again when Congress finally gets down to it but otherwise unnoticeable?

[red states rule]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/39ec0ce57a63f611c0015d8b8b88d947/tumblr_mhkosaKaiY1roqv59o1_500.png

[red states rule]

As you know (or maybe you don't) we hit the National Debt ceiling back in May. And a month or two before that, sequestration cut things back some. So the National Debt now is no higher than it was in mid-February.

But it's not because our government has suddenly come to its senses and started doing things responsibly. They've been draining various Federal retirement accounts ever since sequestration hit in April.

This is an act that would get any CFO or financial person in any private or public company in American, thrown in prison for fraud (or worse). But people in government, get a free pass on such activity. What they haven't done, is reduce spending. Not even a little bit.

Oddest thing about it is that the media hasn't said a word.

It's actually the biggest scandal since Teapot Dome, other than the fact that nobody has died so there are no sobbing mothers the press can put on the 7:00 news.

When they say "We'll run out of money in October" or whenever the latest prediction is, they actually mean we'll run out of accounts we can illegally steal from.

They figure that when the TEA Party Republicans cave, they can borrow a $trillion overnight (might be closer to $2 trillion by October), pay back all those accounts, and no one will be the wiser.

Just one thing: What if the TEA Party Republicans don't cave?

The one blatant lie the liberal media repeats is how the US will "default" unless the debt limit is increased. Default would be if the US does not make its scheduled interest payment

Since taxes will continue to be collected, the only way the US will default is if Obama orders the US Treasury NOT to make the payment

Also there will enough money coming in to pay SS and other retirement benefits. The US military can also be paid

THEN we get to where the cuts DO need to be made. Which is the last thing Obama, Dems, and the liberal media want to happen

[PostmodernProphet]

BTW, the National Debt STILL isn't rising, and hasn't appreciably risen since last March.

And the Federal retirement accounts and other "Trust" funds the Fed has been quietly draining every since we hit the Debt Ceiling, are just about empty now.

Something unpleasant is going to happen very soon.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/politics-other-controversies/118259d1379607863-business-usual-debt-front-natldebt02feb2013-17sep2013.gif

actually, I think we hit the cap then and they've just stopped reporting that its rising.......

[Arbo]

The latest CBO report said that our debt is costing us 73% of our GDP. A country can not grow when most of the money it makes goes to paying off debt instead of expansion.

[Little-Acorn]

actually, I think we hit the cap then and they've just stopped reporting that its rising.......

Nope.

They've been draining various trust funds for retirement accounts, everywhere they can find them, and hoping that auditors with any integrity don't get wind of what they're doing. They are hoping COngress caves and raises the Debt ceiling soon... so that they can immediately borrow enough to pay back the accounts they've been draining.

If any financial officer of any private company, corporation, etc. were to do this with his company's retirement funds, he'd be arrested for fraud and misuse of funds, tried, and jailed. By the Federal government. Same Federal government that is doing the same thing themselves, right now.

Such activity is as illegal as it gets, in the financial community.

Unless you're the government.

[red states rule]

Nope.

They've been draining various trust funds for retirement accounts, everywhere they can find them, and hoping that auditors with any integrity don't get wind of what they're doing. They are hoping COngress caves and raises the Debt ceiling soon... so that they can immediately borrow enough to pay back the accounts they've been draining.

If any financial officer of any private company, corporation, etc. were to do this with his company's retirement funds, he'd be arrested for fraud and misuse of funds, tried, and jailed. By the Federal government. Same Federal government that is doing the same thing themselves, right now.

Such activity is as illegal as it gets, in the financial community.

Unless you're the government.

LBJ was the first to take SS funds since he needed them to fiancé his war on poverty

and it has never stopped





In early 1968 President Lyndon Johnson made a change in the budget presentation by including Social Security and all other trust funds in a"unified budget." This is likewise sometimes described by saying that Social Security was placed "on-budget."

This 1968 change grew out of the recommendations of a presidential commission appointed by President Johnson in 1967, and known as the President's Commission on Budget Concepts. The concern of this Commission was not specifically with the Social Security Trust Funds, but rather it was an effort to rationalize what the Commission viewed as a confusing budget presentation. At that time, the federal budget consisted of three separate and inconsistent sets of measures, and often budget debates became bogged-down in arguments over which of the three to use. As an illustration of the problem, the projected fiscal 1968 budget was either in deficit by $2.1 billion, $4.3 billion, or $8.1 billion, depending upon which measure one chose to use. Consequently, the Commission's central recommendation was for a single, unified, measure of the federal budget--a measure in which every function and activity of government was added together to assess the government's fiscal position.

This change took effect for the first time in the President's budget proposal for fiscal year 1969, which President Johnson presented to Congress in January 1968. This change in accounting practices did not initially put the President's budget proposal into surplus--it was still projecting an $8 billion deficit. However, it is clear that the budget deficit would have been somewhat larger without this change (it is difficult to say how much larger because this change was mixed-in with the other legislative, budgetary and fiscal policies the President was urging Congress to adopt). In early 1969--just five days before leaving office--President Johnson sent his 1970 budget message to Congress, also using the revised accounting procedures. At this point, a year later than his initial estimate, he was projecting the budget for 1969 to be in a net balance of $2.4 billion. (The fiscal year 1969 began on January 1, 1969, even though the President had released his FY 1969 budget almost a year earlier.)

http://www.ssa.gov/history/BudgetTreatment.html

[fj1200]

The latest CBO report said that our debt is costing us 73% of our GDP. A country can not grow when most of the money it makes goes to paying off debt instead of expansion.

Link? That doesn't sound right.

[Arbo]

Link? That doesn't sound right.

http://cbo.gov/publication/44521



Federal debt held by the public is now about 73 percent of the economy’s annual output, or gross domestic product (GDP). That percentage is higher than at any point in U.S. history except a brief period around World War II, and it is twice the percentage at the end of 2007. If current laws generally remained in place, federal debt held by the public would decline slightly relative to GDP over the next several years, CBO projects. After that, however, growing deficits would ultimately push debt back above its current high level. CBO projects that federal debt held by the public would reach 100 percent of GDP in 2038, 25 years from now, even without accounting for the harmful effects that growing debt would have on the economy (see the figure below). Moreover, debt would be on an upward path relative to the size of the economy, a trend that could not be sustained indefinitely.

My previous post not properly worded, debt held by public vs. 'costing us'. Either way, very very BAD for the economy.

One story showing in the next 25 years, at current rates, it will be 100% of GDP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/09/19/cbo-federal-debt-could-match-gdp-in-25-years/

[fj1200]

http://cbo.gov/publication/44521


Federal debt held by the public is now about 73 percent of the economy’s annual output, or gross domestic product (GDP)

My previous post not properly worded, debt held by public vs. 'costing us'. Either way, very very BAD for the economy.

One story showing in the next 25 years, at current rates, it will be 100% of GDP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/09/19/cbo-federal-debt-could-match-gdp-in-25-years/

OK, that's a different statement than "costing" us 73%. The trend is worse than the number IMO.

[red states rule]

http://thelookingspoon.com/tlsimages/blog/2012/obama_not_fed_up_with_debt.jpg

[Arbo]

[QUOTE=red states rule;666180][/quoOTE]

What? A meaningless picture instead of a comment on the topic of the thread? From red state rules? NO WAY!

[red states rule]

Rule #1 with the Obama lap dogs

Thou shall not insult the Messiah

[Arbo]

rule #1 with the obama lap dogs

thou shall not insult the messiah

.....


personal feuds - no surprisingly, members can sometimes get involved in personal feuds. We ask that these be kept off the boards. please don't derail threads by going "after" someone you don't like.

[Gaffer]

[QUOTE=red states rule;666180][/quoOTE]

What? A meaningless picture instead of a comment on the topic of the thread? From red state rules? NO WAY!

What no comment on the topic? Maybe you should practice what you preach.

[Arbo]

What no comment on the topic? Maybe you should practice what you preach.

Go back a page, we were discussing the topic quite nicely.