Church and sad times

[Jeff]

Yesterday at church we had a member of the club saying his good byes to his family ( yes we are all family ) and his wife and Mom and Dad where also there , it was very emotional , see he is going away for 2 years compliments of the feds, seems someone handed him a gun that he handed off to a undercover agent , seems the gun was traced back to someone they shouldn't of been allowed to own a gun, which George was allowed to so it is all very confusing but the way I understand it is he wouldn't rat on the guy that handed it to him, so Saturday we went to George's house for a going away party and the sliding glass doors that where on the back of his house are no longer there , that is where the fed let themselves in ( seems like a knock on the door would of worked ) See George is part of the Club I belong to but has friends in a Outlaw club ( heck we all know someone that isn't a 100% law abiding citizen ) but being there is such a push on gun control and the fact that they couldn't get no dirt on the outlaw club they told George either rat on the club or go to jail so he will start his sentence today , all for doing nothing more than handing a firearm off to a fed.

Now let me give yall a little info on George , he did ride in a Outlaw club at one point and has since straightened his life out, last week I posted how we where up in Helen GA and one of the guided runs was suppose to be for George ( a going away run ) well he come along a four year little girl with a disease that will kill her and her only dream is to meet Cinderella down in Florida at Disney, he demanded his run be changed to a run for Tabor ( the sick little girl ) and no fee's where collected ( it was all donations ) well due to the rain that ride never happened. Seems make a wish foundation would send her but we needed to come up with $600 ( that was just there fee ) then we had to have transportation and lodging for her, know George isn't easily missed at 6'6 and about 400lbs ( I am guessing ) many at the rally still inquired about it, The night of the meeting ( 3 weeks ago ) when it first came in that George wanted this run we pasted the hat and got like $400 that night , the next day i went to the local bike shop and they handed me $200 and through my FB page I got other donations , but at the rally George met a doctor who gave his Condo for a week to this little girl and her family and he also donated all medicine's for the rest of her life , there was also much money collect all because this giant of a man ( the same guy going to jail ) has it now where Tabor leaves Wednesdays for Florida , has a full 7 days in Disney, Saturday she will spend the day in the castle being Cinderella's helper ( the pass was for 6 days but Disney gave her 7 ) she has a condo to stay in for a full week all due to this convicted felony , all because the Feds couldn't find anything on this outlaw club and he wouldn't rat , was he wrong I don't think so as far as he knew he was just passing the gun along , but our Feds went and got the bad guys.

So for those of you that pray please keep him in your prayers that he will have a easy 2 years ( if possible ) but George has one thing going for him, he is walking into that hell hole with a suit of Armour on, many feel this is more like a mission trip than a two year stint because he will reach others while in there and maybe help someone God is looking to help, there has to be a reason he is going because all the good he has done certainly out weighs the bad.


5419
This is a picture of George and Tabor last weekend up in Helen , right after this was taken Tabor was down in the tent and screamed I love my biker family


5420

( click on photo's to enlarge )

This is Little Tabor what a sweet little girl she is, riding behind George makes her look smaller than she really is , ya wouldn't even know this little angel is sick other than the feeding tube and drain in her belly and when she does feel good and does thing she gets a bad fever , but she told her Momma up in Helen and Saturday at George's she was going to make sure she feels good , and by the way she is now calling George Daddy , seems it was to much for her real dad to handle so he bailed but George stepped in and that little girl loves this big bad Biker ( teddy bear actually ) so much she asked him if she could call him daddy

This litle girl knows exactly what is going on and her dream was to meet Cinderella before she passes , I have to be honest this story of such a brave little girl has made my pain look like a drop in the bucket, we all can learn from a little girl like this .

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yesterday at church we had a member of the club saying his good byes to his family ( yes we are all family ) and his wife and Mom and Dad where also there , it was very emotional , see he is going away for 2 years compliments of the feds, seems someone handed him a gun that he handed off to a undercover agent , seems the gun was traced back to someone they shouldn't of been allowed to own a gun, which George was allowed to so it is all very confusing but the way I understand it is he wouldn't rat on the guy that handed it to him, so Saturday we went to George's house for a going away party and the sliding glass doors that where on the back of his house are no longer there , that is where the fed let themselves in ( seems like a knock on the door would of worked ) See George is part of the Club I belong to but has friends in a Outlaw club ( heck we all know someone that isn't a 100% law abiding citizen ) but being there is such a push on gun control and the fact that they couldn't get no dirt on the outlaw club they told George either rat on the club or go to jail so he will start his sentence today , all for doing nothing more than handing a firearm off to a fed.

Now let me give yall a little info on George , he did ride in a Outlaw club at one point and has since straightened his life out, last week I posted how we where up in Helen GA and one of the guided runs was suppose to be for George ( a going away run ) well he come along a four year little girl with a disease that will kill her and her only dream is to meet Cinderella down in Florida at Disney, he demanded his run be changed to a run for Tabor ( the sick little girl ) and no fee's where collected ( it was all donations ) well due to the rain that ride never happened. Seems make a wish foundation would send her but we needed to come up with $600 ( that was just there fee ) then we had to have transportation and lodging for her, know George isn't easily missed at 6'6 and about 400lbs ( I am guessing ) many at the rally still inquired about it, The night of the meeting ( 3 weeks ago ) when it first came in that George wanted this run we pasted the hat and got like $400 that night , the next day i went to the local bike shop and they handed me $200 and through my FB page I got other donations , but at the rally George met a doctor who gave his Condo for a week to this little girl and her family and he also donated all medicine's for the rest of her life , there was also much money collect all because this giant of a man ( the same guy going to jail ) has it now where Tabor leaves Wednesdays for Florida , has a full 7 days in Disney, Saturday she will spend the day in the castle being Cinderella's helper ( the pass was for 6 days but Disney gave her 7 ) she has a condo to stay in for a full week all due to this convicted felony , all because the Feds couldn't find anything on this outlaw club and he wouldn't rat , was he wrong I don't think so as far as he knew he was just passing the gun along , but our Feds went and got the bad guys.

So for those of you that pray please keep him in your prayers that he will have a easy 2 years ( if possible ) but George has one thing going for him, he is walking into that hell hole with a suit of Armour on, many feel this is more like a mission trip than a two year stint because he will reach others while in there and maybe help someone God is looking to help, there has to be a reason he is going because all the good he has done certainly out weighs the bad.


5419
This is a picture of George and Tabor last weekend up in Helen , right after this was taken Tabor was down in the tent and screamed I love my biker family


5420

( click on photo's to enlarge )

This is Little Tabor what a sweet little girl she is, riding behind George makes her look smaller than she really is , ya wouldn't even know this little angel is sick other than the feeding tube and drain in her belly and when she does feel good and does thing she gets a bad fever , but she told her Momma up in Helen and Saturday at George's she was going to make sure she feels good , and by the way she is now calling George Daddy , seems it was to much for her real dad to handle so he bailed but George stepped in and that little girl loves this big bad Biker ( teddy bear actually ) so much she asked him if she could call him daddy

This litle girl knows exactly what is going on and her dream was to meet Cinderella before she passes , I have to be honest this story of such a brave little girl has made my pain look like a drop in the bucket, we all can learn from a little girl like this . Great story. Lots of people are not what we think they are. When we get to know them we find the truth which often tells a very different tale. -Tyr

[PostmodernProphet]

many feel this is more like a mission trip than a two year stint because he will reach others while in there and maybe help someone God is looking to help, there has to be a reason he is going because all the good he has done certainly out weighs the bad.


God's plans always work out.....

[Noir]

....what exactly are the illegalities carried out by said 'outlaw club'?

[Jeff]

....what exactly are the illegalities carried out by said 'outlaw club'?

By the club Noir you name it and they are suspect, it was one of those deals get in and find out what illegal act they could make a arrest on , Noir they make it so hard for these guys to even hang together it is unreal ( and yes some are doing some bad things I agree ) the outlaw clubs 1% is what they like to be called because they figure they are the 1% of the population that will do as they please

[logroller]

....what exactly are the illegalities carried out by said 'outlaw club'?
Typical criminal enterprise stuff: racketeering, drugs/guns and money laundering.

[Noir]

By the club Noir you name it and they are suspect, it was one of those deals get in and find out what illegal act they could make a arrest on , Noir they make it so hard for these guys to even hang together it is unreal ( and yes some are doing some bad things I agree ) the outlaw clubs 1% is what they like to be called because they figure they are the 1% of the population that will do as they please

Yeah but what *is* the 1% stuff? Would LR be right -racketeering, drugs/guns and money laundering?

[Jeff]

Yeah but what *is* the 1% stuff? Would LR be right -racketeering, drugs/guns and money laundering?

Yes amongst other things, I am not saying they are or where guilty of any of it but yes that is what they are looking for as well as Murders , and a host of many other crimes, Noir most clubs that fly that 1% patch are into some bad things sure enough , so understand I am not condoning what they do but rather what my friend George did, he left that lifestyle a few years back but still had friends that rode in that club and although most of what George does is good he got caught with his hand in the fire and will know serve 2 years of his life for not being a rat.

[Noir]

Yes amongst other things, I am not saying they are or where guilty of any of it but yes that is what they are looking for as well as Murders , and a host of many other crimes, Noir most clubs that fly that 1% patch are into some bad things sure enough , so understand I am not condoning what they do but rather what my friend George did, he left that lifestyle a few years back but still had friends that rode in that club and although most of what George does is good he got caught with his hand in the fire and will know serve 2 years of his life for not being a rat.

Would you be of the same opinion if his 'not being a rat' was covering those who had done you an injustice?
Here's hoping that if there are any muderers in this group that the police do find something to pin them.

[Jeff]

Would you be of the same opinion if his 'not being a rat' was covering those who had done you an injustice?
Here's hoping that if there are any muderers in this group that the police do find something to pin them.

Noir I don't believe in Rats at all , period , I believe Rats will be exterminated , I didn't post this to debate it, if you don't see that this guy George was the victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and all the good he has done that is fine than just carry on but I will not turn this into a liberal debate , I simply posted about a Teddy bear of a man taking care of a beautiful 4 year old girl and the bad hand he was dealt, why turn this into anything more than that

As for Murders I know of none but can't i say there aren't any or none have never been committed no I can't again I am not posting this in defense of the outlaw club it was posted simply to show a good man that was bad turned his life around spent many hours of his time ( while getting ready to leave his family for 2 years ) worrying about a little Angel named Tabor

[Larrymc]

Yesterday at church we had a member of the club saying his good byes to his family ( yes we are all family ) and his wife and Mom and Dad where also there , it was very emotional , see he is going away for 2 years compliments of the feds, seems someone handed him a gun that he handed off to a undercover agent , seems the gun was traced back to someone they shouldn't of been allowed to own a gun, which George was allowed to so it is all very confusing but the way I understand it is he wouldn't rat on the guy that handed it to him, so Saturday we went to George's house for a going away party and the sliding glass doors that where on the back of his house are no longer there , that is where the fed let themselves in ( seems like a knock on the door would of worked ) See George is part of the Club I belong to but has friends in a Outlaw club ( heck we all know someone that isn't a 100% law abiding citizen ) but being there is such a push on gun control and the fact that they couldn't get no dirt on the outlaw club they told George either rat on the club or go to jail so he will start his sentence today , all for doing nothing more than handing a firearm off to a fed.

Now let me give yall a little info on George , he did ride in a Outlaw club at one point and has since straightened his life out, last week I posted how we where up in Helen GA and one of the guided runs was suppose to be for George ( a going away run ) well he come along a four year little girl with a disease that will kill her and her only dream is to meet Cinderella down in Florida at Disney, he demanded his run be changed to a run for Tabor ( the sick little girl ) and no fee's where collected ( it was all donations ) well due to the rain that ride never happened. Seems make a wish foundation would send her but we needed to come up with $600 ( that was just there fee ) then we had to have transportation and lodging for her, know George isn't easily missed at 6'6 and about 400lbs ( I am guessing ) many at the rally still inquired about it, The night of the meeting ( 3 weeks ago ) when it first came in that George wanted this run we pasted the hat and got like $400 that night , the next day i went to the local bike shop and they handed me $200 and through my FB page I got other donations , but at the rally George met a doctor who gave his Condo for a week to this little girl and her family and he also donated all medicine's for the rest of her life , there was also much money collect all because this giant of a man ( the same guy going to jail ) has it now where Tabor leaves Wednesdays for Florida , has a full 7 days in Disney, Saturday she will spend the day in the castle being Cinderella's helper ( the pass was for 6 days but Disney gave her 7 ) she has a condo to stay in for a full week all due to this convicted felony , all because the Feds couldn't find anything on this outlaw club and he wouldn't rat , was he wrong I don't think so as far as he knew he was just passing the gun along , but our Feds went and got the bad guys.

So for those of you that pray please keep him in your prayers that he will have a easy 2 years ( if possible ) but George has one thing going for him, he is walking into that hell hole with a suit of Armour on, many feel this is more like a mission trip than a two year stint because he will reach others while in there and maybe help someone God is looking to help, there has to be a reason he is going because all the good he has done certainly out weighs the bad.


5419
This is a picture of George and Tabor last weekend up in Helen , right after this was taken Tabor was down in the tent and screamed I love my biker family


5420

( click on photo's to enlarge )

This is Little Tabor what a sweet little girl she is, riding behind George makes her look smaller than she really is , ya wouldn't even know this little angel is sick other than the feeding tube and drain in her belly and when she does feel good and does thing she gets a bad fever , but she told her Momma up in Helen and Saturday at George's she was going to make sure she feels good , and by the way she is now calling George Daddy , seems it was to much for her real dad to handle so he bailed but George stepped in and that little girl loves this big bad Biker ( teddy bear actually ) so much she asked him if she could call him daddy

This litle girl knows exactly what is going on and her dream was to meet Cinderella before she passes , I have to be honest this story of such a brave little girl has made my pain look like a drop in the bucket, we all can learn from a little girl like this .What an Awesome Story, Im am agreeing with all who are Praying for these two, While i pray God would Bless Tabors family many more years with her, i am aware that the death of such innocents is no tragedy to God, he is simply call her home, and only God knows why George has been put in this situation, i two fell it most likely is a mission trip, I pray that it be fulfilled quickly, followed by a miraculous release.

[Jeff]

What an Awesome Story, Im am agreeing with all who are Praying for these two, While i pray God would Bless Tabors family many more years with her, i am aware that the death of such innocents is no tragedy to God, he is simply call her home, and only God knows why George has been put in this situation, i two fell it most likely is a mission trip, I pray that it be fulfilled quickly, followed by a miraculous release.

Larry this is a true story, the night I re dedicated myself to God a friend of mine from the south here went to my friends list on FB and randomly picked a person to contact and tell them about it, well out of the 750 friends I have on my list many wouldn't of cared at all but he happened to pick a woman named Wendy who i was friends with her older brother, but he sent the message at like 2 am, she has a large family so as ya can figure sleep is needed but she said she had had a awsome dream about God and woke up all fired up so she kicked FB on and there it was, Wendy and I have become great friends we both care about kids above all things, I have helped her up in NC ( yes she relocated to the south as well ) Well of course when she seen the flyer I had posted about Tabor she couldn't donate quick enough and when she did I explained the entire deal with George and she said God has a plan for him he won't serve the two years he will do Gods work and be out within a year, well Sunday I spoke to the preacher and he also told me God has laid it on him that very same thing George is going for a reason and it will take no more than a year to finish what God wants and he also went on to say how when George gets out he will be on fire , God will of made a new man out of him and that George wont be recognized when he gets out, I can tell you one of George's friends from the outlaw club has been to church the last couple of weeks and has changed 100% in that short time, he walked in with his over alls on standing 6'7 long hair and a Harley hat well his appearance hasn't changed at all but Sunday when he gave me a hug there was a tear in this guys eye, these people usually don't have feelings but God is all over this entire situation and all will be good when it is over .

[Larrymc]

Larry this is a true story, the night I re dedicated myself to God a friend of mine from the south here went to my friends list on FB and randomly picked a person to contact and tell them about it, well out of the 750 friends I have on my list many wouldn't of cared at all but he happened to pick a woman named Wendy who i was friends with her older brother, but he sent the message at like 2 am, she has a large family so as ya can figure sleep is needed but she said she had had a awsome dream about God and woke up all fired up so she kicked FB on and there it was, Wendy and I have become great friends we both care about kids above all things, I have helped her up in NC ( yes she relocated to the south as well ) Well of course when she seen the flyer I had posted about Tabor she couldn't donate quick enough and when she did I explained the entire deal with George and she said God has a plan for him he won't serve the two years he will do Gods work and be out within a year, well Sunday I spoke to the preacher and he also told me God has laid it on him that very same thing George is going for a reason and it will take no more than a year to finish what God wants and he also went on to say how when George gets out he will be on fire , God will of made a new man out of him and that George wont be recognized when he gets out, I can tell you one of George's friends from the outlaw club has been to church the last couple of weeks and has changed 100% in that short time, he walked in with his over alls on standing 6'7 long hair and a Harley hat well his appearance hasn't changed at all but Sunday when he gave me a hug there was a tear in this guys eye, these people usually don't have feelings but God is all over this entire situation and all will be good when it is over .I wasn't sure what to pray for with George, it seems God has once again confirmed his plan. It sounds like you have found an Awesome Church, That's no easy thing.

[Jeff]

I wasn't sure what to pray for with George, it seems God has once again confirmed his plan. It sounds like you have found an Awesome Church, That's no easy thing.

Larry this Church seems like it was made for me, the first day they opened was my first visit, ( it wasn't the first day for the church just the first day for the new Building ) well we pulled up to say fifty bikes all ready there ( maybe not that many not real sure ) but I was just trying to feel everything out when the preacher introduced himself to me and started sugar coating his past, the state rep ( a friend of mine ) said he has been there done that so the preacher just laid it out, he said I was in the HA's I did 7 to 14 in prison and I love God,there is so much more to his testimony and I will explain one day but don't want to get off track here . And then I heard him yell open that second door as he fired up a ultra classic and rode it up next to the Altar then a second bike was brought in, when church started he said do yall know why I brought the bikes in, Because we can, God has handed there guys the money to get the building, re gravel the parking lot, all new sound system , 100 new chairs to be delivered this week and much much more all to some lonely old sinners that love to ride motorcycles , if ya remember when Jesus looked for his disciples he didn't go to the rich to the popular he went to the fishing villages and got everyday hard working people , this is a church that on Wednesday night during bible study it isn't uncommon to see the preacher fist bump with someone, no need to dress up, on my vest I have a patch that says these are my Church clothes and it is exactly what i wear, a club shirt my vest and a do rag on my head and not one person frowns, because we aren't there trying to impress anyone but Jesus Christ

[Noir]

Noir I don't believe in Rats at all , period , I believe Rats will be exterminated , I didn't post this to debate it, if you don't see that this guy George was the victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and all the good he has done that is fine than just carry on but I will not turn this into a liberal debate , I simply posted about a Teddy bear of a man taking care of a beautiful 4 year old girl and the bad hand he was dealt, why turn this into anything more than that

As for Murders I know of none but can't i say there aren't any or none have never been committed no I can't again I am not posting this in defense of the outlaw club it was posted simply to show a good man that was bad turned his life around spent many hours of his time ( while getting ready to leave his family for 2 years ) worrying about a little Angel named Tabor

Welp, guess its all perspective, i don't see this guy as a victim at all.

[Jeff]

Welp, guess its all perspective, i don't see this guy as a victim at all.

Some how I didn't think you would and when asked if ya had to make this a argument to just leave it alone somehow I figured that wouldn't be taken seriously either but have at it Noir , if you feel so inclined bash it. have fun do as most liberal would

[Larrymc]

Larry this Church seems like it was made for me, the first day they opened was my first visit, ( it wasn't the first day for the church just the first day for the new Building ) well we pulled up to say fifty bikes all ready there ( maybe not that many not real sure ) but I was just trying to feel everything out when the preacher introduced himself to me and started sugar coating his past, the state rep ( a friend of mine ) said he has been there done that so the preacher just laid it out, he said I was in the HA's I did 7 to 14 in prison and I love God,there is so much more to his testimony and I will explain one day but don't want to get off track here . And then I heard him yell open that second door as he fired up a ultra classic and rode it up next to the Altar then a second bike was brought in, when church started he said do yall know why I brought the bikes in, Because we can, God has handed there guys the money to get the building, re gravel the parking lot, all new sound system , 100 new chairs to be delivered this week and much much more all to some lonely old sinners that love to ride motorcycles , if ya remember when Jesus looked for his disciples he didn't go to the rich to the popular he went to the fishing villages and got everyday hard working people , this is a church that on Wednesday night during bible study it isn't uncommon to see the preacher fist bump with someone, no need to dress up, on my vest I have a patch that says these are my Church clothes and it is exactly what i wear, a club shirt my vest and a do rag on my head and not one person frowns, because we aren't there trying to impress anyone but Jesus ChristThe squeaky clean image, and Hell Fire and Brim Stone Preaching, is responsible for a great falling away from the Church, One of my first great experiences with God was on this subject, If i was going to do this Jesus thing it was going to be real, so i said to God most people clean up their appearance, Cut their hair, dress cloths ect. While i will not hesitate to do so, I need you Lord to tell me if this is required, and the Lord said to me "Where Did The Idea That Being Clean Cut And Properly Dressed, Is Godly" it was so real i said Lord are you asking me a Question, will of course he wasn't but, it did answer my quiston.

[jimnyc]

Welp, guess its all perspective, i don't see this guy as a victim at all.

Granted the law is the law... But back in the day there weren't all these corny regulations. In some places you still can sell/buy guns between individuals without background checks and such. Someone may very well purchase or otherwise get their hands on a gun that they didn't know was once used in a crime. If one were to grow up in the South under these circumstances, buying and selling guns under these circumstances would likely come natural to them. Hell, I don't know the law where this guy lives, but he may even be legal in some areas by him to sell a weapon to an individual without a check. I think the key is, they must still retain records of who they sold to and such, and it sounds like now that he knows they want to go after someone, he refuses to divulge what he knows and be a "rat".

Also, 2 years might be easier than ratting and then finding ones self in harms way, or their family in harms way. Many folks find not ratting on others to be an honorable thing to do. I think in certain cases there is a fine line between being honorable and being a victim. But at the end of the day, if what he did falls under certain statutes, and he is guilty of a crime, then he does the time.

[logroller]

Yes amongst other things, I am not saying they are or where guilty of any of it but yes that is what they are looking for as well as Murders , and a host of many other crimes, Noir most clubs that fly that 1% patch are into some bad things sure enough , so understand I am not condoning what they do but rather what my friend George did, he left that lifestyle a few years back but still had friends that rode in that club and although most of what George does is good he got caught with his hand in the fire and will know serve 2 years of his life for not being a rat.
He'll serve two years for not cooperating with a criminal investigation. So far as his relationship with God-- prison sure could use some more witnesses to His glory and salvation-- The Lord works in mysterious ways.

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm reminded of a story I heard once about someone who ran an urban ministry.....some visitor made a comment about the people there and she said something along the lines of "God told me to be a fisher of men.....he didn't tell me I had to clean them"......

[logroller]

Would you be of the same opinion if his 'not being a rat' was covering those who had done you an injustice?
Here's hoping that if there are any muderers in this group that the police do find something to pin them.
Most of the murders probably do get pinned on someone--likely the guy who actually did it-- but that's not what criminal justice system is really after. They want to take down the organization. They want someone to roll on the big fish co-conspirator: the guy who gives the orders.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...someone handed him a gun that he handed off to a undercover agent , seems the gun was traced back to someone they shouldn't of been allowed to own a gun, which George was allowed to so it is all very confusing but the way I understand it is he wouldn't rat on the guy that handed it to him...

Why did he put himself in the position of taking an unknown weapon from someone, and then passing it on to a stranger (who turned out to be a federal officer)? Shouldn't a little bell have gone off in his head, having been previously associated with an 'Outlaw club'? Who put him in contact with the undercover agent? Someone he trusted? Just seems there is a lot to this that isn't being passed on in this thread... no offense intended.

Yes, the little girl adds the 'sympathy factor' on my end. But more for her, less for him.

[Jeff]

Why did he put himself in the position of taking an unknown weapon from someone, and then passing it on to a stranger (who turned out to be a federal officer)? Shouldn't a little bell have gone off in his head, having been previously associated with an 'Outlaw club'? Who put him in contact with the undercover agent? Someone he trusted? Just seems there is a lot to this that isn't being passed on in this thread... no offense intended.

Yes, the little girl adds the 'sympathy factor' on my end. But more for her, less for him.

First Marcus this Fed was no stranger she hung around and lived with them for a long time she infiltrated the club as one of them , I really didn't think this would go into all this but he didn't rat on the guy that gave him the gun because the man just got his life in order, he has a couple of young kids, and the man just quit drinking and drugging and has become a family man so George took the rap , its called brotherhood , I see not many on here understand it but in some circles it still is the honorable thing to do , so yes between what he did for this little girl and what he is doing for a brother he is a very honorable man in my eyes

And no Brother no Offense taken, I could of written a whole other story to explain but I figured most would just see what he did for this little girl and think ok even guys that go Jail are human I didn't expect George to stand trial again ( and that isn't a slam of any kind I understand when certain people come in and ask question it does open it up to a debate )

[Marcus Aurelius]

First Marcus this Fed was no stranger she hung around and lived with them for a long time she infiltrated the club as one of them , I really didn't think this would go into all this but he didn't rat on the guy that gave him the gun because the man just got his life in order, he has a couple of young kids, and the man just quit drinking and drugging and has become a family man so George took the rap , its called brotherhood , I see not many on here understand it but in some circles it still is the honorable thing to do , so yes between what he did for this little girl and what he is doing for a brother he is a very honorable man in my eyes

And no Brother no Offense taken, I could of written a whole other story to explain but I figured most would just see what he did for this little girl and think ok even guys that go Jail are human I didn't expect George to stand trial again ( and that isn't a slam of any kind I understand when certain people come in and ask question it does open it up to a debate )

First, I'm glad my position here did not offend you, as there was none intended.

But my questions still exist... if the guy who gave your friend the gun had 'just got his life together', then why the gun transfer outside established legal procedures in the first place? As for the transfer to the apparent undercover agent, did the agent come to him, or visa-versa? If the agent went to him, and he was also trying to keep his life in order, I would expect him to refuse to get involved.

Again, not slamming anyone. In fact, I do actually commend him for not turning the other guy in to save his own ass.

Also, on the odd chance that this is read by anyone on the federal level, you 'might' want to be careful how much you actually say about those involved. You wouldn't want to get dragged in yourself.

[Jeff]

Granted the law is the law... But back in the day there weren't all these corny regulations. In some places you still can sell/buy guns between individuals without background checks and such. Someone may very well purchase or otherwise get their hands on a gun that they didn't know was once used in a crime. If one were to grow up in the South under these circumstances, buying and selling guns under these circumstances would likely come natural to them. Hell, I don't know the law where this guy lives, but he may even be legal in some areas by him to sell a weapon to an individual without a check. I think the key is, they must still retain records of who they sold to and such, and it sounds like now that he knows they want to go after someone, he refuses to divulge what he knows and be a "rat".
Yes he has a right to sell a gun in GA it is a private sale but somehow the gun was illegal, Jim personally I keep records of who I have sold to but many don't heck I have bought so many guns for hunting at the hunting club because someone needs money or just don't care for the gun, most I sell the same way and it has been that way for ever
Also, 2 years might be easier than ratting and then finding ones self in harms way, or their family in harms way. Many folks find not ratting on others to be an honorable thing to do. I think in certain cases there is a fine line between being honorable and being a victim. But at the end of the day, if what he did falls under certain statutes, and he is guilty of a crime, then he does the time.as for him ratting he more than likley wouldn't of been in any trouble because the guy should of given him a heads up


He'll serve two years for not cooperating with a criminal investigation. So far as his relationship with God-- prison sure could use some more witnesses to His glory and salvation-- The Lord works in mysterious ways.Log you hit the nail right on the head here , we all know our prisons are hell holes, this guy is big enough to protect himself but is going in with the theory that God will protect him, this is all something he had given up as far as the outlaw life, heck he even cut his hair off and shaved his beard so when he entered he wasn't looking like a big bad biker but rather just a God loving peaceful man , yes God has a plan for him, you should hear some of the testimonies from some that have served, we have one guy that had like 10 years left on his sentence and our preacher who did time ( and has ministered in over 500 prisons in the US spoke to this man and he gave himself to God, broke down and cried like a baby begged forgiveness and a month later he showed up at church holding a sign saying God freed me, seems for one reason or another they let him out early


I'm reminded of a story I heard once about someone who ran an urban ministry.....some visitor made a comment about the people there and she said something along the lines of "God told me to be a fisher of men.....he didn't tell me I had to clean them"......PmP your exactly right back when Jesus walked the earth the Jews woul'd send there kids to school for so long then test them those that did good where sent on those that didn't where told to go help there parents with there business and that was usually a fisherman , when Jesus decided to get his Disciples where did he look, he went to the piers to seek the fisherman the working class nope no one was wearing a suit


Most of the murders probably do get pinned on someone--likely the guy who actually did it-- but that's not what criminal justice system is really after. They want to take down the organization. They want someone to roll on the big fish co-conspirator: the guy who gives the orders. Bingo they aren't looking for any single crime they are trying to get enough evidence to shut the club down or at least put enough hurt on them where they are no longer strong enough to run anything and in this case they couldn't build a case so they pushed these BS charges trying to scare George into telling anything he may of known to help them, so your tax dollars at work paid no telling how many feds and all they got was a big old teddy bear of a guy to serve two years

And to be totally honest if I mentioned the Club ( well that may not be a good idea ) but at least this chapter where all this went down they are simple ruff rednecks that have fun and do as they please but bother no one, a perfect example was one of the guys was telling me he no longer carries a gun because the last time he got drunk he came home to his Mom's house and started just shooting in the yard ( this of course I am sure was in the middle of the night ) and his mother came out screaming ****** quit shooting that dang gun and he was Laughing and carrying on and yelled back hell I still have ammo I can't stop now , this is the kind of fun they have, know other Chapters of this same club and I am sure this one does to some extent also has there hands deep into the the criminal world( they do have to answer to the clubs officers ) but for the most part this chapter has cleaned up a lot and a lot of that is do to George , but by no means am I saying they are squeaky clean ( that is why George pulled that Patch in the first place )

[Jeff]

First, I'm glad my position here did not offend you, as there was none intended.

But my questions still exist... if the guy who gave your friend the gun had 'just got his life together', then why the gun transfer outside established legal procedures in the first place? As for the transfer to the apparent undercover agent, did the agent come to him, or visa-versa? If the agent went to him, and he was also trying to keep his life in order, I would expect him to refuse to get involved.

Again, not slamming anyone. In fact, I do actually commend him for not turning the other guy in to save his own ass.

Also, on the odd chance that this is read by anyone on the federal level, you 'might' want to be careful how much you actually say about those involved. You wouldn't want to get dragged in yourself.

Marcus the way I understand it was that George was unaware of anything out of the ordinary with the gun and as I said the fed was thought of as a friend if not part of the club ( I am sure a friend rather than part of do to the initiation a woman goes through to join most clubs if she isn't brought in as someone's ol lady ) so when he handed it to her he thought he was just dropping a gun off she had bought but there was something illegal about the gun and that is where it gets fuzzy , the only thing I was told for sure was George didn't know anything about the history of the gun and thought he was just dropping a gun off to a friend and then a couple weeks later his sliding glass window came crashing in