Syrian rebels's false flag attack. [Archive] - Debate Policy

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 10:05 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-says-granted-access-u-n-chemical-weapons-132853937.html Syria says granted access to U.N. to chemical weapons site http://l.yimg.com/a/p/us/news/editorial/d/0c/d0c3eb8ca18907492a4b337b5cec5193.jpeg (http://www.reuters.com/) <cite class="byline vcard top-line"><abbr>1 hour ago</abbr> </cite> Politics (http://news.yahoo.com/politics-and-government/)Syria (http://news.yahoo.com/syria/)Chemical weapon (http://www.yahoo.com/topic/chemical-weapon/)Damascus (http://www.yahoo.com/topic/damascus/)United Nations (http://news.yahoo.com/united-nations/)
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 BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syria has agreed to allow U.N. inspectors access to sites in suburbs of Damascus where alleged chemical attacks occurred last week, the Syria Foreign Ministry said in a statement broadcast on state television.
"The Syrian government and the United Nations agreed on a common understanding ... to allow the United Nations to investigate allegations of chemical weapons use in the Damascus suburbs on Aug 22, 2013," the statement said, giving the wrong date for the mass poisoning, which took place on Aug 21.
Many hundreds of people were poisoned to death on Wednesday before dawn in what appears to have been the world's worst chemical weapons attack since Saddam Hussein's forces gassed thousands of Iraqi Kurdish villagers in 1988.
Syria has denied that it was to blame for last week's incident. Rebels and many Western officials believe the poisoning was caused by a chemical agent used in a rocket attack carried out by government forces. The incident took place just three days after a U.N. chemical weapons team arrived in Syria to investigate other smaller allegations of poison gas use. The inspector team's movements must be agreed with the Syrian authorities.-----So convenient eh? 3 days after the UN chemical weapons team arrived!!!!! A fact that you don't see mentioned in other news reports! Are we to believe the Syrian government forces did this just to give a just cause for that UN chemical team to sound the alarm and get UN/USA ACTION BROUGHT AGAINST THEM? THINK PEOPLE, THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF A FALSE FLAG OPERATION! What would it profit the Syrian government to kill those people if it brought major action against them by the UN and the USA military?? Nobody is that crazy, the only gain from this attack would be if it gave cause to allow America to take punitive action. This is undoubtedly Obama's idea sent to the rebel forces to do. Odds would be 999 to 1 that is the reality of it all. -Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 11:37 AM

So it begins, the false justification for Obama to do what he has been told to do by his masters. http://news.yahoo.com/senior-administration-official-very-little-doubt-assad-regime-134521617--abc-news-topstories.html Senior Administration Official: 'Very Little Doubt' Assad Regime Behind Alleged Chemical Attack .View gallery

Senior Administration Official: 'Very Little Doubt' Assad Regime Behind Alleged Chemical Attack (ABC News)
http://l.yimg.com/os/590/2011/10/20/RR-logo_003910.png (http://abcnews.go.com/) <cite class="byline vcard top-line">Jonathan Karl <abbr>1 hour ago</abbr> </cite> Politics (http://news.yahoo.com/politics-and-government/)White House (http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-2/)Chemical weapon (http://www.yahoo.com/topic/chemical-weapon/)

 http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/3axfPIoBCMsbIQJm7_Ryaw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI0MA--/http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/AP_syria_crisis_lt_130825_16x9_608.jpgsyria

The White House says there is "very little doubt" that the Assad regime is responsible for the alleged chemical attack in Syria that is said to have taken place earlier this week. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/official-syria-press-chemical-inquiry-20055527)
"Based on the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured, witness accounts, and other facts," a senior administration official tells ABC News, "There is very little doubt at this point that a chemical weapon was used by the Syrian regime against civilians in this incident. We are continuing to assess the facts so the President can make an informed decision about how to respond to this indiscriminate use of chemical weapons."
White House officials also point out the attack was on rebel-held territory and apparently done using rockets that the rebels do not possess.
After reports that Syria's regime will allow UN inspectors to access the site of the attack, the senior administration official suggested the move may be too late, after "the regime's persistent shelling" has "significantly corrupted" evidence in the area.
"If the Syrian government had nothing to hide and wanted to prove to the world that it had not used chemical weapons in this incident, it would have ceased its attacks on the area and granted immediate access to the UN-five days ago. At this juncture, the belated decision by the regime to grant access to the UN team is too late to be credible," the official said.
The president has ordered his national security team to draw up possible strike options on Syria, but there is a divide in the White House on how forcefully to respond, although another official told ABC News if there is a strike, it must be "timely" - done soon enough to prevent another chemical attack.-------------------^^^^^^^ ALL OF IT BULLSHIT!--Tyr

revelarts

08-25-2013, 12:11 PM

I don't know if Obama is to Blame But if i HAD to pick which gov't was LEAST likey to do it. it would be Syria and Assad.

This is horrible international gamesmenship by parties unknown .

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 12:17 PM

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Syria-conflict-chemical-weapons/2013/08/24/id/522046 Saturday, 24 Aug 2013 09:12 AM
By Newsmax Wires



 The Obama administration is rapidly making the initial preparations for a cruise missile attack on Syrian government forces, CBS News reported Saturday. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599944/u.s-preps-for-possible-cruise-missile-attack-on-syrian-govt-forces/)

The Pentagon's "initial preparations" will only give President Obama the immediate option of an attack. Indications Friday, based on an interview the president gave to CNN, is that he hasn't reached that point yet.

Despite the mounting indications that some sort of attack involving chemicals occurred in Syria last week, the "who" and the "what" are still far from clear. There has been no conclusive evidence -- such as toxicology reports using tissue samples from the victims -- that internationally banned chemicals like sarin were used.

President Obama personally warned Syria a year ago this month that a "red line" in the conflict was the use of chemical weapons. Thus far, however, the US has not acted on Obama's threat.

President Obama's national security adviser, Susan Rice, sent out a Tweet on Friday calling what happened "an apparent CW (chemical weapons) attack." And the commander of US forces in the Mediterranean has ordered Navy warships to move closer to Syria to be ready for a possible cruise missile strike.

Meanwhile, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is strongly suggesting that the Pentagon is moving forces into place ahead of possible military action against Syria.

Launching cruise missiles from the sea would not risk any American lives. It would be a punitive strike designed not to topple Syrian dictator Bashir Assad but to convince him he cannot get away with using chemical weapon
US commanders have prepared a range of "options" for Obama if he chooses to proceed with military strikes against Damascus, Hagel told reporters before landing in Kuala Lumpur.
"The Defense Department has a responsibility to provide the president with options for all contingencies," Hagel said.
"And that requires positioning our forces, positioning our assets to be able to carry out different options — whatever the president might choose."
  But Hagel declined to provide any details on the deployment of US ships, aircraft or troops, as the Obama administration reportedly contemplated cruise missile strikes against Assad's forces.
Hagel's comments came as a defense official said the US Navy would expand its presence in the Mediterranean with a fourth warship armed with cruise missiles

--So convenient to have those assets in place and then the Syrian government to launch a chem attack 3 days after the UN chemical weapons team arrival in Syria. It would take a damn fool not to see this ffing set-up.. Even more so since it gives cover for Obama to step in and help his muslim terrorist buddies win.. Yes, the point is the average American citizen will not have a damn clue and will applaud Obama's bravery and great leadership. -------------------------------------- ITS ALL A DAMN SCAM FOLKS!--Tyr

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 12:35 PM

I don't doubt there's a scam involved here. But there are other factors to take into consideration too. Assad has friends in the region, namely iran, russia and china. He also has hezbollah and a lot of iraqi's. If assad did do this he's counting on intersection from his allies. If the brotherhood did it they too are counting on his allies to start something even bigger. And I think our DiC is being sucked into a trap. Mainly because he can't keep his mouth shut and doesn't know what to do when the shit hits the fan.

Kathianne

08-25-2013, 12:55 PM

I don't doubt there's a scam involved here. But there are other factors to take into consideration too. Assad has friends in the region, namely iran, russia and china. He also has hezbollah and a lot of iraqi's. If assad did do this he's counting on intersection from his allies. If the brotherhood did it they too are counting on his allies to start something even bigger. And I think our DiC is being sucked into a trap. Mainly because he can't keep his mouth shut and doesn't know what to do when the shit hits the fan.

I don't think this is a 'false flag' operation, indeed I think it's just the 3rd or 4th shoe dropping, (Egypt, Libya, Yemen), results of the horrible foreign policies of this administration. I would put it more along the line of the Cuban Missile Crisis; enemies emboldened due to the buffoonery of leadership. Syria has those powerful allies you referred to.

Better than I could say it, probably in fewer words too, though it's a tad long. Note the author, who is more or less a Libertarian, voted the first time for Obama:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324619504579028923699568400.html

August 24, 2013, 4:09 p.m. ET

         The Failed Grand Strategy in the Middle East

WALTER RUSSELL MEAD

In the beginning, the Hebrew Bible tells us, the universe was all "tohu wabohu," chaos and tumult. This month the Middle East seems to be reverting to that primeval state: Iraq continues to unravel, the Syrian War grinds on with violence spreading to Lebanon and allegations of chemical attacks this week, and Egypt stands on the brink of civil war with the generals crushing the Muslim Brotherhood and street mobs torching churches. Turkey's prime minister, once widely hailed as President Obama's best friend in the region, blames Egypt's violence on the Jews; pretty much everyone else blames it on the U.S.

The Obama administration had a grand strategy in the Middle East. It was well intentioned, carefully crafted and consistently pursued.

Unfortunately, it failed.

The plan was simple but elegant: The U.S. would work with moderate Islamist groups like Turkey's AK Party and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood to make the Middle East more democratic. This would kill three birds with one stone. First, by aligning itself with these parties, the Obama administration would narrow the gap between the 'moderate middle' of the Muslim world and the U.S. Second, by showing Muslims that peaceful, moderate parties could achieve beneficial results, it would isolate the terrorists and radicals, further marginalizing them in the Islamic world. Finally, these groups with American support could bring democracy to more Middle Eastern countries, leading to improved economic and social conditions, gradually eradicating the ills and grievances that drove some people to fanatical and terroristic groups.

President Obama (whom I voted for in 2008) and his team hoped that the success of the new grand strategy would demonstrate once and for all that liberal Democrats were capable stewards of American foreign policy. The bad memories of the Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter presidencies would at last be laid to rest; with the public still unhappy with George W. Bush's foreign policy troubles, Democrats would enjoy a long-term advantage as the party most trusted by voters to steer the country through stormy times.

It is much too early to anticipate history's verdict on the Obama administration's foreign policy; the president has 41 months left in his term, and that is more than enough for the picture in the Middle East to change drastically once again. Nevertheless, to get a better outcome, the president will have to change his approach.

...

jimnyc

08-25-2013, 01:14 PM

Nothing would surprise me from either side in Syria. They are all animals acting like animals, and then one of them tries to up the other with chemical weapons. I can't say for sure if it happened or not, but seeing how these people cut off heads without batting an eyelash, shooting a weapon with chemicals in it is probably like saying prayers for these people.

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 01:38 PM

One important thing I disagree with that article on is his insistence the president is a great and talented leader. Puhlease. The Dic has been stumbling around in the dark for four and a half years, and now it's all coming back to bite him.

Kathianne

08-25-2013, 01:44 PM

One important thing I disagree with that article on is his insistence the president is a great and talented leader. Puhlease. The Dic has been stumbling around in the dark for four and a half years, and now it's all coming back to bite him.

I think that 'conclusion' is based more upon candidate Obama's pronouncements prior to first run and his criticisms against Bush policies. That he's continued with those Bush policies, probably resulted in losing the 2012 vote from Mead, yet there lingers the 'promise' that was.

revelarts

08-25-2013, 02:33 PM

None of the loose Allies really want a war with the US. Russia doesn't want a another cold war suragate fight ala Korea, Viet Nam etc. None of the other players mentioned have the military chops. Some few may be Crazy enough to do it it draw Obama in. But the old maxim comes to mind "who benefits?" Assad is already winning. And already has more of the Syrian people in the country on his side now than when the mess started. WHY chem bomb now?
Assad has Been more secular. and had NO expansionist activity. Why are we after him? he kills his people. The Rebels do too. AND they are extremist Muslims of the worse sort.

Assads enemies, the Rebels, are alQeada affilites and jioned at the hip with the Muslim Brotherhood. Have there backs against the wall and need arms men and mil support to get any traction at this point.

Who benefits from this?
And why, in the name of common sense, would we support AlQeada and the Muslim Brotherhood to take over ANOTHER country from Assad.

I hope Obama has enough sense to stall again, investigate and stay back from that tarpit.
He, and all our Presidents, are suppose to be the President's of the United States, not the Middle East. We don't need to spend a dime or give alqeada 1 bullet.

The Syrian people are between the frying pan and the fire.
We don't need to throw any kerosene on the issue.

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 02:45 PM

I agree with what your saying Rev, he should stay out of it. But I suspect he's going to jump right into the trap to support his beloved brotherhood. Assad is an iranian puppet and there's nothing they would like more than an excuse to take on the US, using assad as a surrogate. And they will want to drag Israel into as well. Half of assads forces are iranian and hezbo.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 05:06 PM

None of the loose Allies really want a war with the US. Russia doesn't want a another cold war suragate fight ala Korea, Viet Nam etc. None of the other players mentioned have the military chops. Some few may be Crazy enough to do it it draw Obama in. But the old maxim comes to mind "who benefits?" Assad is already winning. And already has more of the Syrian people in the country on his side now than when the mess started. WHY chem bomb now?
Assad has Been more secular. and had NO expansionist activity. Why are we after him? he kills his people. The Rebels do too. AND they are extremist Muslims of the worse sort.

Assads enemies, the Rebels, are alQeada affilites and jioned at the hip with the Muslim Brotherhood. Have there backs against the wall and need arms men and mil support to get any traction at this point.

Who benefits from this?
And why, in the name of common sense, would we support AlQeada and the Muslim Brotherhood to take over ANOTHER country from Assad.

I hope Obama has enough sense to stall again, investigate and stay back from that tarpit.
He, and all our Presidents, are suppose to be the President's of the United States, not the Middle East. We don't need to spend a dime or give alqeada 1 bullet.

The Syrian people are between the frying pan and the fire.
We don't need to throw any kerosene on the issue. Look, if a find a huge pile of shit in the trail in the deep woods that has bear tracks going to and away from it and its looks like bear shit why in the hell would I think it was cow shit. Even if some dumbass swore it was! Assad had nothing to gain and a damn lot to lose so it wasn't his side , who on the other side it was is up for grabs but you can beat your last dollar Obama was in on it . He is itching for an excuse to help his terrorist buddies win there. This is so obviously a false flag attack that Id bet my life on it against a hundred dollar bill! Assad had nothing to gain by doing it and has not done it up to now so --ask yourself why now when it would actually help his enemies? --Tyr

aboutime

08-25-2013, 05:18 PM

None of the loose Allies really want a war with the US. Russia doesn't want a another cold war suragate fight ala Korea, Viet Nam etc. None of the other players mentioned have the military chops. Some few may be Crazy enough to do it it draw Obama in. But the old maxim comes to mind "who benefits?" Assad is already winning. And already has more of the Syrian people in the country on his side now than when the mess started. WHY chem bomb now?
Assad has Been more secular. and had NO expansionist activity. Why are we after him? he kills his people. The Rebels do too. AND they are extremist Muslims of the worse sort.

Assads enemies, the Rebels, are alQeada affilites and jioned at the hip with the Muslim Brotherhood. Have there backs against the wall and need arms men and mil support to get any traction at this point.

Who benefits from this?
And why, in the name of common sense, would we support AlQeada and the Muslim Brotherhood to take over ANOTHER country from Assad.

I hope Obama has enough sense to stall again, investigate and stay back from that tarpit.
He, and all our Presidents, are suppose to be the President's of the United States, not the Middle East. We don't need to spend a dime or give alqeada 1 bullet.

The Syrian people are between the frying pan and the fire.
We don't need to throw any kerosene on the issue.

But...none of them see the US. or OBAMA as a trustworthy ally. In fact. Putin has already warned the PRETENDER not to do anything in Syria on our own, or there will be Hell To Pay...Putin's kind of threats that Obama fears the most. As Cowards are expected to do.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 06:46 PM

But...none of them see the US. or OBAMA as a trustworthy ally. In fact. Putin has already warned the PRETENDER not to do anything in Syria on our own, or there will be Hell To Pay...Putin's kind of threats that Obama fears the most. As Cowards are expected to do. Obama has no authority to help our enemies wage war.. Doesn't matter that its against Assad, he is aiding our enemies--our terrorist enemies and that's illegal. So now magicly a reason is being created and it damn sure isn't by Assad. When Obama issued his threat months ago I asked myself, why threaten now(?),this war has been on this long and no chem attack has been played yet. The reason was Obama was setting the stage and preparing for a future false flag attack. Folks , we have our greatest enemy right here running our country. Fact..--Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 06:50 PM

So what? Am I the only one that sees the truth on this? Good God , how can so many be so damn blind!!??? -Tyr

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 07:36 PM

Your not alone on this. I'm just curious as to why now? And note in your other thread he is purging a lot of high ranking officers just as things are getting way out of hand in the ME. He may be planning to trigger hezbo cells here in the US to declare his martial law.

revelarts

08-25-2013, 07:43 PM

Tyr i agree that it's not Assad's work. I'm just not sure it's Obama.
many here think he's a full on Muslim terrorist, i don't. i think he's a globalist, wall st, mil ind complex tool on a long leach.
Brezenski and the neo-cons have wanted to invade Syria for a long time. Brezenski seems to have changed his mind. But they all have written about it.
Gen. Westly Clark mentioned that he saw the war plans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtUfYGBlYSw) during the Bush admin to invade
Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Somolia, Lebanon, Sudan and Iran.
the 1st 2 on the list are done. many advisers and beruacrats live across administration. Many plans cross party lines.

I'm not sure what's happening on this issue Obama lies so much it's hard to get a read.
MY best guess is that He personally does not want to invade or escalate with Syria. But that there are powerful players who want him to attack. But he's trying to weasel out of it if he can while saving some face with all the players. We also see McCain and Lindsey Graham want U.S. planes and missiles to attack Syria. Why? to bring democracy? no way. To help the Syrian people. really? To help Alqeada and the Muslim Brotherhood. do McCain and Graham have friends in the brotherhood too?
you See, it seems to me there's another agenda that's not being spoken aloud. Powerful players want Assad out and are looking for any excuse to do it. the rebel fighters IMO are pawns hoping to be able to turn it to their advantage.

And i can't figure out is why Israel wants U.S. to help the Muslim brotherhood get another country and it's weapons. Are they Secret Muslim brotherhood too?

Seems to me the public is missing a piece of the puzzle on this
But if the Public would pressure Obama away from Syria I think it might give him cover to stay away.

that's my take at this point anyway.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-25-2013, 07:47 PM

Your not alone on this. I'm just curious as to why now? And note in your other thread he is purging a lot of high ranking officers just as things are getting way out of hand in the ME. He may be planning to trigger hezbo cells here in the US to declare his martial law. The puppetbastard is up to no good , you can bet your life on that. His purging comes from his great admiration of Joseph Stalin whose purges murdered millions. One of his big goals is to weaken our military. --Tyr

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 08:03 PM

Rev we are somewhat in agreement here. Not sure about who's handling the DiC, and he does seem to be trying to worm his way out. If he's going to talk tough he better be prepared to back it up.

It might be that he wants a large scale war there that ties up our military while he finishes his power grab here.

As for the war plans, they have plans for every country in the world and they are updated regularly. Clark is a dipstick. He has no credibility as far as I'm concerned.

revelarts

08-25-2013, 08:33 PM

Rev we are somewhat in agreement here. Not sure about who's handling the DiC, and he does seem to be trying to worm his way out. If he's going to talk tough he better be prepared to back it up.

It might be that he wants a large scale war there that ties up our military while he finishes his power grab here.

As for the war plans, they have plans for every country in the world and they are updated regularly. Clark is a dipstick. He has no credibility as far as I'm concerned.
I hear ya,
Ok so you don't like Clark. but just to be clear, as General he knows there are generic war plans for every country.
that's not what he was talking about.

But why would Israel want us to go to war with Syria? Is Iran that big a threat that they'd perfer the Saudi supported Muslim brotherhood in control?
That' the only overt reason i can think of.
And the reason why McCain and Graham would back it is is because they are more loyal to Israel than to the U.S. on some foriegn policy matters. And I saw McCain try to push Obama into Syria a while back giving a speech at the American Enterprise institute. AEI is a very Neo Con dominated org.. Do they want Obama to have a victory?

I pray for the best for Israel but i just don't get this position.

Gaffer

08-25-2013, 09:00 PM

From what I have been reading, and see Kathianne's post for a reference. Is that house of saud, egypt's military and Israel are all working together, behind the scenes of course, to under mine the brotherhood and their plans for a caliphate. At the same time they all want to see iran neutralized. Our DiC has sided with the brotherhood so those three are not cooperating fully with him. The odd alliances is similar to WW1. I still think some how the saud's are behind the brotherhood. But then they just might be a victim of their own financial monster.

aboutime

08-25-2013, 09:07 PM

So what? Am I the only one that sees the truth on this? Good God , how can so many be so damn blind!!??? -Tyr

Tyr. The lack of education by so many Americans from all races is how Obama succeeds.

He, and the Democrats know. If they can maintain the DUMBED-DOWN, uneducated who voted for him, and now are so desperately dependent upon government (socialism at work) then they really don't want to SEE THE TRUTH.
It is much easier for them to be blinded by their own selfishness, and hatred than to come in contact with a reality that makes them nothing but agreeable Slaves to government.

Kathianne

08-26-2013, 12:56 AM

None of the loose Allies really want a war with the US. Russia doesn't want a another cold war suragate fight ala Korea, Viet Nam etc. None of the other players mentioned have the military chops. Some few may be Crazy enough to do it it draw Obama in. But the old maxim comes to mind "who benefits?" Assad is already winning. And already has more of the Syrian people in the country on his side now than when the mess started. WHY chem bomb now?
Assad has Been more secular. and had NO expansionist activity. Why are we after him? he kills his people. The Rebels do too. AND they are extremist Muslims of the worse sort.

Assads enemies, the Rebels, are alQeada affilites and jioned at the hip with the Muslim Brotherhood. Have there backs against the wall and need arms men and mil support to get any traction at this point.

Who benefits from this?
And why, in the name of common sense, would we support AlQeada and the Muslim Brotherhood to take over ANOTHER country from Assad.

I hope Obama has enough sense to stall again, investigate and stay back from that tarpit.
He, and all our Presidents, are suppose to be the President's of the United States, not the Middle East. We don't need to spend a dime or give alqeada 1 bullet.

The Syrian people are between the frying pan and the fire.
We don't need to throw any kerosene on the issue.

While you chose not to quote a post that you were responding to, I'll assume it was mine. I think you are wrong regarding Russia and Putin, I think he feels the chops to not only stand on this, but deal with if US responds. He controls both Iran and Syria, both with formidable military powers, that would make our sending troops there, hell.