This is what Muslims teach their children

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxaPUOglhk


Child Basmallah on Prophet Muhammad and the Jews

Our report today will be a little different, because our guest will be a girl, a Muslim girl, but a true Muslim.
Allah willing, may God give us the strength to give our children the same education, so that the next generation of children will all be true Muslims who know that they are Muslims and who their enemies are.
This child will now introduce herself.
She's the daughter of a sister in Islam, Hueida, and of the artist Wagdi Al-Arabi.
her name is Basmallah, and I will ask her too.

*Peace be upon you.
-Allah's mercy and blessings upon you
*What's your name?
-Basmallah.
*How old are you Basmallah?
-Three and a half.
*Are you a Muslim?
-Yes.
*Basmallah, do ou know the jews?
-Yes.
*Do you like them?
-No.
*Why don't you like them?
-Because.
*Because they are what?
-They are apes and pigs.
*Because they are apes and pigs? Who said that about them?
-Our God.
*Where did he say that about them?
-In the Koran.
*He said this about them in the Koran. That's right.
*Basmallah, what do the Jews do?
what
*what do they do?
-The pepsi company.
*So you know about the boycott too, Basmallah?
-Yes
*Did they love our Prophet Muhammad?
-No
*What did the Jews do to him?
-He killed someone...
*Of course, our Prophet Muhammad was strong and could kill them.
*Ok, do you know traditions about what the Jews did to our Prophet Muhammad?
*Is there a story you know?
-Yes.
*Which one?
-The one about the Jewish woman.
*what did the Jewish woman do to our Prophet Muhammad?
-The Jewish woman?
*Yes
-She invited the Prophet and his companions.
when he asked her if she had put poison in his food, she said "yes"
he asked her: "why did you do this?"
she replied:" if you are a liar, you will die, and Allah will not protect you.
But if you speak the truth, Allah will protect you."
*And God protected the Prophet, of course.
-And he said to his companions, "I will kill this woman."
*Of course. She put poison in his food, this Jewess.
Basmallah, Allah be praised.
May our God bless her.
No one could wish for a more devout girl.
May God bless her and her parents.
The next generation of children must be true Muslims, Allah willing.
We must educate them while they are still children to be true Muslims.

Cue Jahil to come in and say they are 'not really Muslims'.

[Gaffer]

The thing they don't mention is that the poison did kill mo. It was over a period of days and he died in excruciating pain. As did all the followers that ate with him. And the Jewish woman proved her point. He was a lair.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The thing they don't mention is that the poison did kill mo. It was over a period of days and he died in excruciating pain. As did all the followers that ate with him. And the Jewish woman proved her point. He was a lair. Justice served up late is better than not served up at all. -----------------Moham enjoyed what he ate, not knowing it was a morsel of fate, found out but it was too late, with death he then had a confirmed date. :laugh: ---------Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, slow agonizing death....- :beer: -Tyr

[Noir]

Its interesting that the OP has to prefix the chat with 'this is a Muslim, a true Muslim' because everyone knows that is the whole crux of any such discussion.

[jimnyc]

Its interesting that the OP has to prefix the chat with 'this is a Muslim, a true Muslim' because everyone knows that is the whole crux of any such discussion.

I will say this much, before anyone interjects with pictures or videos of crazy rednecks doing similar with Christianity... Islam pulls this shit on a massive scale, in all Islamic lead countries, This is burned into them from the moment they are of cognizant thought. The Christians that may teach garbage like this to children are just as bad, but the facts are, it's not even in the same millennium, let alone in the same ballpark.

[stevecanuck]

I see Jaffar didn't comment. Undoubtedly because there's nothing he say to mitigate the obvious brain-washing. He was probably raised on such hate. Most of them are.

[stevecanuck]

Jafar needs to have his nose rubbed in this. Here we have an undeniable example of Muslims teaching their kids to hate Jews. This isn't some back alley pirated video that was only circulated in the worst of hate-mongering mosques, but it was shown on TV. This is the reality of Islamic-based hatred that the world needs to know happens on a daily basis.

[Arbo]

.. Islam pulls this shit on a massive scale, in all Islamic lead countries,

Does anyone here actually live in a country where they are surrounded by a massive amount of muslims? And in such case are they seeing this first hand, or does everyone here live far away from a muslim population and they are simply seeing media reports here and there?

One should realistically be able to quantify the 'massive scale'. Read the books from some of our troops that served in Iraq and Afganistan, loads and loads of muslims there, in general they just wanted to do their farming and live their lives and didn't give a crap about anyone else in the world.

While indeed it is just about always islamist fanatics that are responsible for terrorist attacks, it doesn't mean all of the 1.6 billion muslims are extremists or are teaching their kids to be.


Jafar needs to have his nose rubbed in this. Here we have an undeniable example of Muslims teaching their kids to hate Jews.

I have witness several undeniable examples of morons and rednecks that were American citizens teaching their kids to hate blacks, jews, asians, etc. I merely call those people backwards and ignorant.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Does anyone here actually live in a country where they are surrounded by a massive amount of muslims? And in such case are they seeing this first hand, or does everyone here live far away from a muslim population and they are simply seeing media reports here and there? What? If it is not in your own neighborhood or town it doesn't matter?


One should realistically be able to quantify the 'massive scale'. Read the books from some of our troops that served in Iraq and Afganistan, loads and loads of muslims there, in general they just wanted to do their farming and live their lives and didn't give a crap about anyone else in the world. How does matter to what they may or may not do here amongst us? Obvious that the ones here are not backward farm people so how does it matter that muslims living in another country with other muslims just want to be left alone?


While indeed it is just about always islamist fanatics that are responsible for terrorist attacks, it doesn't mean all of the 1.6 billion muslims are extremists or are teaching their kids to be. I have not yet seen a single example of anybody saying directly that all 1.6 billion muslims are extremists or that they are teaching all their kids to be extremists.




I have witness several undeniable examples of morons and rednecks that were American citizens teaching their kids to hate blacks, jews, asians, etc. I merely call those people backwards and ignorant. We all know what the word moron means but exactly what is a redneck? And where may rednecks be found? .[/QUOTE] America was attacked by muslim Jihadists on 9/11 and has been since then (prime example Fort Hood)and no amount of appeasing and soothing apologizing to the muslims for our being the victims will change that or change why they attacked us. --Tyr

[Arbo]

What? If it is not in your own neighborhood or town it doesn't matter?

If you do not live where you see it to be a fact, how can you say it is a fact? Trust the 'news'?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If you do not live where you see it to be a fact, how can you say it is a fact? Trust the 'news'?


1. What? If it is not in your own neighborhood or town it doesn't matter? You answered this one with a question. If you do not live where you see it to be a fact, how can you say it is a fact? Trust the 'news'?[/ The other valid points made and questions asked were ignored. Were they too hard, not important enough or invalid? Answering a question with a question is an old tactic used by politicians surprised that you use it. Also since a great many linked sources are news articles your contention present in that reply is tantamount to saying those sources are invalid. -Tyr

[aboutime]

If you do not live where you see it to be a fact, how can you say it is a fact? Trust the 'news'?


Much like telling a blind person the Sun came up this morning. But, since the blind person is unable to see it. It didn't happen???

[Marcus Aurelius]

The other valid points made and questions asked were ignored. Were they too hard, not important enough or invalid? Answering a question with a question is an old tactic used by politicians surprised that you use it. Also since a great many linked sources are news articles your contention present in that reply is tantamount to saying those sources are invalid. -Tyr

I never personally saw the space shuttle launch, as it wasn't in my neighborhood. I guess it never happened.:laugh:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I never personally saw the space shuttle launch, as it wasn't in my neighborhood. I guess it never happened.:laugh: I never saw all those people massacred at the Fort Hood terrorist attack. Do you "reckon" it never happened and the poor Muslim Major is being framed? I put forth a rational and valid reply but only got that whatever it was.--Tyr

[stevecanuck]

I have witness several undeniable examples of morons and rednecks that were American citizens teaching their kids to hate blacks, jews, asians, etc. I merely call those people backwards and ignorant.That's a meaningless (and disingenuous) comparison. The hatred that Muslims teach their children is a tenet of Islam, and is main-streamed via mosque sermons, daily and relentless indoctrination, and TV programs such as the Bismallah example. Your "redneck" bigots are just that - bigots, and have no scriptural basis for their hatred. Is that not a HUGE difference?

[tailfins]

That's a meaningless (and disingenuous) comparison. The hatred that Muslims teach their children is a tenet of Islam, and is main-streamed via mosque sermons, daily and relentless indoctrination, and TV programs such as the Bismallah example. Your "redneck" bigots are just that - bigots, and have no scriptural basis for their hatred. Is that not a HUGE difference?

The task at hand is to render those planning terrorism be neutralized or killed without destroying our own freedoms. This generalized hatred is a recipe for our defeat. Islam may be a component, but not the only characteristic in the profile of whom must be defeated.

[Arbo]

The other valid points made and questions asked were ignored.

To paraphrase you: 'you do not tell people what to respond to'. To be more specific, I found them to have no relevance to the discussion in my view.

[Arbo]

Much like telling a blind person


I never personally saw the space


I never saw all those people massacred at t

Nice mischaracterizations. It is understood you and some others will always believe ANY news story that paints ANY muslim as negative, because of preconceptions. Most others realize that if you do not live with or around 'all' of a certain group, you can not honestly say that 'all' of a certain group behaves this way or that way, unless you simply take what you read (others say) as 'evidence' that your preconceived notions are true.


The hatred that Muslims teach their children is a tenet of Islam, and is main-streamed via mosque sermons, daily and relentless indoctrination, and TV programs such as the Bismallah example. Your "redneck" bigots are just that - bigots, and have no scriptural basis for their hatred.

To the first three responded to, this is an example. Do you sit in every mosque every day and hear every sermon? Are you around every muslim child so you see for a fact there is 'relentless indoctrination'? Or does it just fit the fear driven need to generalize a hatred to a group of people?


The task at hand is to render those planning terrorism be neutralized or killed without destroying our own freedoms. This generalized hatred is a recipe for our defeat. Islam may be a component, but not the only characteristic in the profile of whom must be defeated.

Exactly! Very well said.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

To paraphrase you: 'you do not tell people what to respond to'. To be more specific, I found them to have no relevance to the discussion in my view. Really? So this looks like I am telling you that you must do as I say? Looks like a valid question to me, and highlights your dodging ............. . :laugh:




The other valid points made and questions asked were ignored. Were they too hard, not important enough or invalid-Tyr

Yes ' one can dodge any hard question by using this excuse shown below. -Tyr
To be more specific, I found them to have no relevance to the discussion in my view.--Arbo[/ Congrats on having such a convenient premade excuse to run from biting questions .. -Tyr

[stevecanuck]

To the first three responded to, this is an example. Do you sit in every mosque every day and hear every sermon? Are you around every muslim child so you see for a fact there is 'relentless indoctrination'? Or does it just fit the fear driven need to generalize a hatred to a group of people?
The relentless indoctrination is very well documented. Then there's the Qur'an itself. Read it and you'll see.

[aboutime]

The relentless indoctrination is very well documented. Then there's the Qur'an itself. Read it and you'll see.


Why...Arbo. It's not surprising that you are so defensive in this matter. Sounds like you need proof YOU EVEN EXIST.

[jafar00]

The relentless indoctrination is very well documented. Then there's the Qur'an itself. Read it and you'll see.

You think badly of the Qur'aan only because you don't understand it.

[Arbo]

Congrats on having such a convenient premade excuse to run from biting questions

Not answering questions that have zero relevance to the topic is not dodging. Everyone understands that. So do you have any questions related to the topic?

[Arbo]

The relentless indoctrination is very well documented. Then there's the Qur'an itself. Read it and you'll see.

What percentage of the bible do you think most followers of the bible actually follow?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Not answering questions that have zero relevance to the topic is not dodging. Everyone understands that. So do you have any questions related to the topic? Those questions were about your reply here shown below. So now your replies can not be questioned!????? Man isn't that wonderfully convenient? --Tyr


Arbo
If you do not live where you see it to be a fact, how can you say it is a fact? Trust the 'news'?

[Arbo]

Those questions were about your reply here shown below. So now your replies can not be questioned!????? Man isn't that wonderfully convenient? --Tyr

1) perhaps if you used Jim's examples in 'Announcements' about how to quote, it would be a bit more clear when you ask questions.

2) people were basically saying 'all muslims do such and such'. My reply was if you do not live amongst a lot of Muslims, how can you suggest 'all' do something with any sort of credibility, as you are not only not around 'all' of them, you are not around even a 'lot' of them. The silly replies about needing to see the sun come up for it to be true (or whatever nonsense they were), were off base as they were an apples vs. oranges sort of comparison. If you believe you can know what 'all' Muslims do or think without being around a hell of a lot of them quite often, then your opinion/belief is not based on actual interaction/observation, so what is it based on? A biased media?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

1) perhaps if you used Jim's examples in 'Announcements' about how to quote, it would be a bit more clear when you ask questions.

2) people were basically saying 'all muslims do such and such'. My reply was if you do not live amongst a lot of Muslims, how can you suggest 'all' do something with any sort of credibility, as you are not only not around 'all' of them, you are not around even a 'lot' of them. The silly replies about needing to see the sun come up for it to be true (or whatever nonsense they were), were off base as they were an apples vs. oranges sort of comparison. If you believe you can know what 'all' Muslims do or think without being around a hell of a lot of them quite often, then your opinion/belief is not based on actual interaction/observation, so what is it based on? A biased media?


perhaps if you used Jim's examples in 'Announcements' about how to quote, it would be a bit more clear when you ask questions. Really so my using this (?) isn't enough for a genius like you? Did you see how I just used one of those (?) marks again , doofus? Amazing that you just used such a lame ass childishly freaking excuse! Here are the questions as they were presented.
What? If it is not in your own neighborhood or town it doesn't matter?




One should realistically be able to quantify the 'massive scale'. Read the books from some of our troops that served in Iraq and Afganistan, loads and loads of muslims there, in general they just wanted to do their farming and live their lives and didn't give a crap about anyone else in the world.
How does matter to what they may or may not do here amongst us? Obvious that the ones here are not backward farm people so how does it matter that muslims living in another country with other muslims just want to be left alone?




While indeed it is just about always islamist fanatics that are responsible for terrorist attacks, it doesn't mean all of the 1.6 billion muslims are extremists or are teaching their kids to be. I have not yet seen a single example of anybody saying directly that all 1.6 billion muslims are extremists or that they are teaching all their kids to be extremists.







I have witness several undeniable examples of morons and rednecks that were American citizens teaching their kids to hate blacks, jews, asians, etc. I merely call those people backwards and ignorant.
We all know what the word moron means but exactly what is a redneck? And where may rednecks be found? --Tyr Yet you claim you did not recognize those as being questions!!!! Are you a dunce?

[Arbo]

That is a mess of a response. Read this: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36404-Quoting-Posts

[stevecanuck]

What percentage of the bible do you think most followers of the bible actually follow?It's Sunday night as I post this. Your turn (I assume we're playing some sort of non-sequitur game).

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That is a mess of a response. Read this: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36404-Quoting-Posts NICE LITTLE EXCUSE TO IGNORE THAT WHICH YOU IGNORED BEFORE IN THE ORIGINAL POST. Let me know when you become a mod here until then fu.:laugh:--Tyr

[stevecanuck]

You think badly of the Qur'aan only because you don't understand it.Really? What part of "allah Ado al kafireen" do I not understand? (Note: I use 'a' for alef and 'A' for Ayn)

[stevecanuck]

This generalized hatred is a recipe for our defeat. Bloody amazing! We show you an example of state-sponsored hate being taught to a 3-year-old, yet you manage to twist that into accusing us of being the haters. Bloody amazing!
Islam may be a component, but not the only characteristic in the profile of whom must be defeated. Component? THEY freely admit that they are acting solely on behalf of Islam, but you try to give them an out by saying Islam may be a "component". Why are you making such an effort to suggest they may be acting for some other reason, especially when they are so clear about their motives?

[aboutime]

Bloody amazing! We show you an example of state-sponsored hate being taught to a 3-year-old, yet you manage to twist that into accusing us of being the haters. Bloody amazing! Component? THEY freely admit that they are acting solely on behalf of Islam, but you try to give them an out by saying Islam may be a "component". Why are you making such an effort to suggest they may be acting for some other reason, especially when they are so clear about their motives?


Steve. What else would you have expected from anyone who seems to support, and defend those who HATE so much?

[stevecanuck]

Steve. What else would you have expected from anyone who seems to support, and defend those who HATE so much?My first thought was to say, "Some intellectual honesty", then I thought, "Nah, ain't gonna happen".

[jafar00]

Really? What part of "allah Ado al kafireen" do I not understand? (Note: I use 'a' for alef and 'A' for Ayn)

You mean الله عدو كافرين?

[stevecanuck]

You mean الله عدو كافرين? You forgot the alef-lam: اللّهَ عَدُوٌّ لِّلْكَافِرِينَ

[Drummond]

The relentless indoctrination is very well documented. Then there's the Qur'an itself. Read it and you'll see.

Naturally enough, I can't speak with any authority for what occurs in America. As for my part of the world, though .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/panorama/2010/11/british_schools_islamic_rules.html

... yes ! Even the BBC has cast a critical eye over this matter ...


In his investigation into what is being taught in Muslim faith schools in Britain, reporter John Ware uncovered a loophole in the regulation system when it comes to part-time schools and clubs that operate on weekends and after school.

Panorama's investigation discovered that around 5,000 Muslim children attending a network of 40 Saudi Students' Schools and Clubs are being taught the Saudi national curriculum.

John also uncovered a worrying trend towards separatism among some private Muslim full-time schools in the UK at a time when the number of Muslim schools is on the increase.

The programme, British Schools, Islamic Rules reveals disturbing evidence that some Muslim children are being exposed to extremist preachers and fundamentalist Islamic groups.

The film asks why school inspectors have missed the warning signs over elements of this teaching and examines the impact this could have on young Muslims' ability to integrate into mainstream British life.

Or this ...

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/uk-tv-exposure-of-indoctrination-of-uk-muslim-children-with-message-of-hatred/


British school children educated in Islamic boarding schools (madrassas) are being taught these and other even more hateful teachings. The extremist teachings at some British madrassas were exposed in February of 2011 by Dispatches, a British Television Documentary.

The report was the result of two years of undercover investigation into madrassas. In Britain, there are around 2,000 Muslim schools teaching 100,000 students. While these schools are required (and often praised) for preaching tolerance of other religions, the undercover footage captured by Dispatches in the documentary exposed some shocking facts about the schools:

Some of the students are taught to avoid going to church because “they are the gathering place of the devils.”

Eleven-year-old students are taught that non-Muslims are the worst of all the creatures.

The teachers at madrassas repeatedly refer to non-Muslims as kuffars. Kuffar is a derogatory and hateful term used to refer to non-Muslims.

Children are taught not to befriend non-Muslims. At one point in footage from the investigation, one of the teachers tells the students that they should “put away” and “forget” non-Muslim friends.

The students are told that the British society is “Shaytan” (Satan).

In some of the footage, the schools depict scenes of violence where students are routinely beaten for failing to recite the Qur’an properly. In less than 3 hours of filmed lessons, the students were beaten more than 10 times by their teacher.

The film also reveals a culture of violence among students. Older students beat younger students and the teachers don’t intervene.

Study of the link is worthwhile. NOT reproduced here is an instructive transcript, viewable from it. Take a look, folks. Yes, YOU TOO, Jafar.

[stevecanuck]

British school children educated in Islamic boarding schools (madrassas) are being taught these and other even more hateful teachings. The extremist teachings at some British madrassas were exposed in February of 2011 by Dispatches, a British Television Documentary.

The report was the result of two years of undercover investigation into madrassas. In Britain, there are around 2,000 Muslim schools teaching 100,000 students. While these schools are required (and often praised) for preaching tolerance of other religions, the undercover footage captured by Dispatches in the documentary exposed some shocking facts about the schools:

Some of the students are taught to avoid going to church because “they are the gathering place of the devils.”

Eleven-year-old students are taught that non-Muslims are the worst of all the creatures. That's a direct quote from the Qur'an (8:22), and therefore a tenet of Islam. The purpose of them being at those madrasas is to be taught the tenets of Islam, so of course teaching Islam is by definition the teaching of hatred toward infidels.


The teachers at madrassas repeatedly refer to non-Muslims as kuffars. Kuffar is a derogatory and hateful term used to refer to non-Muslims. Kafar is the singular, and it's used countless times in the Qur'an. Yes, it's derogatory, but it's what allah uses to describe us, so again it's a tenet of Islam.


Children are taught not to befriend non-Muslims. At one point in footage from the investigation, one of the teachers tells the students that they should “put away” and “forget” non-Muslim friends.Again, that's straight out of the Qur'an (4:89, 4:139, 4:144, 5:51, 5:57, 5:80, 9:23, 18:102, 60:13). As you can see, Allah is very clear on the subject. Verse 4:89 is worth a closer look because it not only tells Muslims not to take infidels for guides (friends, allies), but it clearly says to kill those who adopt Islam and then reject it: They wish that you would disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal. Therefore, do not take a guide from them until they emigrate in the way of Allah. Then, if they turn back take them and kill them wherever you find them. Do not take them for guides or helpers, [/quote]


The students are told that the British society is “Shaytan” (Satan).
Just sitting here basking in the love and tolerance that is Islam.

[stevecanuck]

I'll head Jaffar off at the pass in case he's planning on doubting my translation. Here's a site that gives the translation of 4:89 from 7 of the most used and trusted translators: http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=89

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Naturally enough, I can't speak with any authority for what occurs in America. As for my part of the world, though .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/panorama/2010/11/british_schools_islamic_rules.html

... yes ! Even the BBC has cast a critical eye over this matter ...



Or this ...

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/uk-tv-exposure-of-indoctrination-of-uk-muslim-children-with-message-of-hatred/



Study of the link is worthwhile. NOT reproduced here is an instructive transcript, viewable from it. Take a look, folks. Yes, YOU TOO, Jafar. Obviously my prediction that Britain may last another 10 to 15 years needs to be revised. I think it likely has less time than that after reading your post. --Tyr

[Drummond]

Obviously my prediction that Britain may last another 10 to 15 years needs to be revised. I think it likely has less time than that after reading your post. --Tyr:clap::clap::clap:

... and note the mealy-mouthed critique the BBC offered. Still trying to be politically correct about Muslims, even when coming up with their own evidence !

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:clap::clap::clap:

... and note the mealy-mouthed critique the BBC offered. Still trying to be politically correct about Muslims, even when coming up with their own evidence ! Yes, I saw that. High condemnation was called for but not delivered. Destroy from within by corruption and treachery is a hall mark of Islam AND its teachings. Mohamboy invited his enemies to a feast and poisoned them all. --Tyr

[aboutime]

Yes, I saw that. High condemnation was called for but not delivered. Destroy from within by corruption and treachery is a hall mark of Islam AND its teachings. Mohamboy invited his enemies to a feast and poisoned them all. --Tyr



Political Correctness Is a Worldwide Problem!

It proliferates, and makes people feel insulted, offended, stupid, ignorant, dumb, and Illiterate, all at once.

Which is why I enjoy being Politically Incorrect.

[jafar00]

You forgot the alef-lam: اللّهَ عَدُوٌّ لِّلْكَافِرِينَ

Ok, so I'm not a native speaker. Still means the same thing. And what of it? I know which ayat you are referring to. Do you want to include the rest of it?


That's a direct quote from the Qur'an (8:22), and therefore a tenet of Islam. The purpose of them being at those madrasas is to be taught the tenets of Islam, so of course teaching Islam is by definition the teaching of hatred toward infidels.

You really are twisting it hard aren't you?


Allah commands His believing servants to obey Him and His Messenger and warns them against defying him and imitating the disbelievers who reject him. Allah said,
﴿وَلاَ تَوَلَّوْاْ عَنْهُ﴾
(and turn not away from him...), neither refrain from obeying him or following his commands nor indulge in what he forbade,
﴿وَأَنتُمْ تَسْمَعُونَ﴾
(while you are hearing.) after you gained knowledge of his Message,
﴿وَلاَ تَكُونُواْ كَالَّذِينَ قَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَهُمْ لاَ يَسْمَعُونَ ﴾
(And be not like those who say: "We have heard,'' but they hear not.)
Ibn Ishaq said that this Ayah refers to the hypocrites, who pretend to hear and obey, while in fact they do neither. Allah declares that these are the most wicked creatures among the Children of Adam,
﴿إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابِّ عِندَ اللَّهِ الصُّمُّ﴾
(Verily, the worst of living creatures with Allah are the deaf) who do not hear the truth,
﴿الْبُكْمُ﴾
(and the dumb) who cannot comprehend it,
﴿الَّذِينَ لاَ يَعْقِلُونَ﴾
(who understand not. ) These indeed are the most wicked creatures, for every creature except them abide by the way that Allah created in them. These people were created to worship Allah, but instead disbelieved. This is why Allah equated them to animals, when He said,
﴿وَمَثَلُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ كَمَثَلِ الَّذِى يَنْعِقُ بِمَا لاَ يَسْمَعُ إِلاَّ دُعَآءً وَنِدَآءً﴾
(And the example of those who disbelieve is as that of him who shouts to those that hear nothing but calls and cries.) ﴿2:171﴾, and,
﴿أُوْلَـئِكَ كَالأَنْعَـمِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ أُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْغَـفِلُونَ﴾
(They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.) ﴿7:179﴾
It was also said that the Ayah (8:22) refers to some of the pagans of Quraysh from the tribe of Bani `Abd Ad-Dar, according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid and Ibn Jarir. Muhammad bin Ishaq said that this Ayah refers to hypocrites, as we stated. There is no contradiction here, because both disbelievers and hypocrites are devoid of sound comprehension, in addition to having lost the intention to do good. Allah states here that such are those who neither have sound understanding nor good intentions, even if they have some type of reason,
﴿وَلَوْ عَلِمَ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا لأَسْمَعَهُمْ﴾
(Had Allah known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen.)
He would have helped them understand. However, this did not happen because there is no goodness in such people, for Allah knows that,
﴿وَلَوْ أَسْمَعَهُمْ﴾
(even if He had made them listen...) and allowed them to understand,
﴿لَتَوَلَّواْ﴾
(they would but have turned...), intentionally and out of stubbornness, even after they comprehend,
﴿وَهُم مُّعْرِضُونَ﴾
(with aversion.), to the truth.
﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ اسْتَجِيبُواْ لِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ إِذَا دَعَاكُمْ لِمَا يُحْيِيكُمْ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَحُولُ بَيْنَ الْمَرْءِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَأَنَّهُ إِلَيْهِ تُحْشَرُونَ ﴾
(24. O you who believe! Answer Allah and (His) Messenger when he (the Messenger) calls you to that which will give you life, and know that Allah comes between a person and his heart. And verily to Him you shall (all) be gathered.)

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1556&Itemid=63


Kafar is the singular, and it's used countless times in the Qur'an. Yes, it's derogatory, but it's what allah uses to describe us, so again it's a tenet of Islam.

It's simply the Arabic word for disbeliever like madrassa is simply the word for school and not some scary combat academy, and jihad means to struggle not holy war.


Again, that's straight out of the Qur'an (4:89, 4:139, 4:144, 5:51, 5:57, 5:80, 9:23, 18:102, 60:13). As you can see, Allah is very clear on the subject. Verse 4:89 is worth a closer look because it not only tells Muslims not to take infidels for guides (friends, allies), but it clearly says to kill those who adopt Islam and then reject it: They wish that you would disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal. Therefore, do not take a guide from them until they emigrate in the way of Allah. Then, if they turn back take them and kill them wherever you find them. Do not take them for guides or helpers,

All of those are for specific groups at specific times and related to specific historical events. But of course if you had bothered to do some study instead of parroting Anti-Islam hate blogs, you would know that already.


I'll head Jaffar off at the pass in case he's planning on doubting my translation. Here's a site that gives the translation of 4:89 from 7 of the most used and trusted translators: http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=89

That pesky Wali word eh? I've explained over and over again. Not taking Christians and Jews as your wali means that you shouldn't take spiritual advice from them or you could become like them. That's the problem with reading English interpretations of the Qur'aan. Historical and theological context is not taken into account at face value. You need to look deeper.

[red states rule]

http://letterstoadyingdream.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/070514hamaskinder-x.gif

[jafar00]

http://letterstoadyingdream.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/070514hamaskinder-x.gif

That's offensive















to Mickey Mouse!

[red states rule]

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/52000/Hamas-Baby-Armor---52086.jpg

[stevecanuck]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by stevecanuck http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=665422#post665422) You forgot the alef-lam: اللّهَ عَدُوٌّ لِّلْكَافِرِينَ


Ok, so I'm not a native speaker. Still means the same thing. And what of it? I know which ayat you are referring to. Do you want to include the rest of it? I haven't forgotten this exchange. I'll get around to dealing with Jafar's nonsense 1 item at a time. Sure, Jafar here's the entire verse: "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers." What's your point? Your god is clearly defining unbelievers as "whoever is an enemy of allah", and then he makes the feeling mutual by saying, "God is the enemy of the unbelievers". That just happens to be MY point, and this verse makes that connection beyond any doubt. The next verse (2:99) reinforces that lovely thought: "We have sent down to you clear verses, none will disbelieve them except the evildoers." The simple act of not believing that the Qur'an is god's holy word is all it takes to make us evildoers and enemies of you and your god. Deep enough?

[jafar00]

I haven't forgotten this exchange. I'll get around to dealing with Jafar's nonsense 1 item at a time. Sure, Jafar here's the entire verse: "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers." What's your point? Your god is clearly defining unbelievers as "whoever is an enemy of allah", and then he makes the feeling mutual by saying, "God is the enemy of the unbelievers". That just happens to be MY point, and this verse makes that connection beyond any doubt. The next verse (2:99) reinforces that lovely thought: "We have sent down to you clear verses, none will disbelieve them except the evildoers." The simple act of not believing that the Qur'an is god's holy word is all it takes to make us evildoers and enemies of you and your god. Deep enough?

What's your point?

[stevecanuck]

What's your point?That Islam declares itself to be the mortal enemy of the non-Muslim world, thereby exposing as a lie that it is a religion of peace and tolerance. Is that enough of a point for you?

[jafar00]

That Islam declares itself to be the mortal enemy of the non-Muslim world, thereby exposing as a lie that it is a religion of peace and tolerance. Is that enough of a point for you?

No. God declared that He is the enemy of those who declare that they are His enemy. Who are you to question what God decides?

Besides, there is an easy way out for them :p

And seek God's forgiveness, for God is surely forgiving and kind. (4:106)

[Gaffer]

No. God declared that He is the enemy of those who declare that they are His enemy. Who are you to question what God decides?

Besides, there is an easy way out for them :p

And seek God's forgiveness, for God is surely forgiving and kind. (4:106)

Your god is my enemy because he is the enemy of all unbelievers. I don't have to declare anything. And your god is unable to do anything, which is why all those followers have to run around killing everybody. He's a phony made up entity. If he's so powerful I'll await the lightning bolt after posting this. :thumb:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Your god is my enemy because he is the enemy of all unbelievers. I don't have to declare anything. And your god is unable to do anything, which is why all those followers have to run around killing everybody. He's a phony made up entity. If he's so powerful I'll await the lightning bolt after posting this. :thumb: Amazing that Islam has murdered well over a hundred million people in its 1400+ year history yet its followers really believe its a religion of peace. Strange since its historically documented to have been spread by the DAMN SWORD!!! Just more proof that tell a lie no matter how big and repeat it loud enough , often enough and it will be believed and believed by huge numbers of people!--Tyr

[Gaffer]

So, I'm still here. :cool:

[aboutime]

I don't care what anyone says, or believes about religion here. But I am weary, and always develop a huge distrust for ANYONE online who attempts to use QUOTES from any religious book, or teachings in order to convince TOTALLY UNKNOWN, UNSEEN people sitting at a keyboard about Anything.

In other words. This venue. The INTERNET, and DP...an Internet Forum. IS NO PLACE FOR ANYONE to make attempts to convince, or persuade anyone else to listen, follow, or be swayed by the type written words of other TOTALLY UNKNOWN, UNSEEN people sitting behind a keyboard.

In other words. NOBODY has my permission to quote, or attempt to tell me anything about how they believe I should obey, follow, or become easily convinced to listen to their BULLSHIT.

[jafar00]

Your god is my enemy because he is the enemy of all unbelievers. I don't have to declare anything. And your god is unable to do anything, which is why all those followers have to run around killing everybody. He's a phony made up entity. If he's so powerful I'll await the lightning bolt after posting this. :thumb:

It doesn't make sense that God would both love the wicked, and also condemn them to hell does it?

Besides, God in the Bible doesn't love them either.

Ecclesiastes 3:8New King James Version (NKJV)

8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.


Deuteronomy 18:12New King James Version (NKJV)

12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.


Leviticus 26:30New King James Version (NKJV)

30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.

Psalm 5:4-6New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.


Psalm 11:5New King James Version (NKJV)

5 The Lord tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.







And so on....

[Arbo]

I don't care what anyone says, or believes about religion here. But I am weary, and always develop a huge distrust for ANYONE online who attempts to use QUOTES from any religious book, or teachings in order to convince TOTALLY UNKNOWN, UNSEEN people sitting at a keyboard about Anything.

In other words. This venue. The INTERNET, and DP...an Internet Forum. IS NO PLACE FOR ANYONE to make attempts to convince, or persuade anyone else to listen, follow, or be swayed by the type written words of other TOTALLY UNKNOWN, UNSEEN people sitting behind a keyboard.

In other words. NOBODY has my permission to quote, or attempt to tell me anything about how they believe I should obey, follow, or become easily convinced to listen to their BULLSHIT.

Nobody gives a shit hypocrite.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It doesn't make sense that God would both love the wicked, and also condemn them to hell does it?

Besides, God in the Bible doesn't love them either.

Ecclesiastes 3:8New King James Version (NKJV)

8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.


Deuteronomy 18:12New King James Version (NKJV)

12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.


Leviticus 26:30New King James Version (NKJV)

30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.

Psalm 5:4-6New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.


Psalm 11:5New King James Version (NKJV)

5 The Lord tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.







And so on.... Let it be noted that you prefer to run to the Old Testament rather than the New Testament. Old Testament was before Christ.



Romans 3:23

New International Version (NIV) 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

[stevecanuck]

It doesn't make sense that God would both love the wicked, and also condemn them to hell does it.

He doesn't. Verse 4:32 says, "allah la yeheb al kafireen" (God does NOT love infidels). The beautiful thing about debating with you is that all I have to do to show what a liar you are is to quote the Qur'an.

[stevecanuck]

No. God declared that He is the enemy of those who declare that they are His enemy. You have that exactly backwards, and you know it. Infidels do not have to "declare" themselves to be your god's enemy. Allah names them as such simply for not being Muslim. Read that quote again very carefully and you'll see that first allah lists his enemies, then declares that he returns the sentiment. If it had said, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is their enemy", you would have a point. But, he says, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers". It's crystal clear that it is simply unbelievers, any unbeliever, to whom he is referring in the first part of that statement, otherwise the inclusion of the word "unbelievers" at the end would be a non-sequitor. Why say "unbelievers" if that's not who he's talking about?
Who are you to question what God decides? Who am I? I'm someone who realizes that Islam was invented by Mohamed as a means of acquiring power and women.


Besides, there is an easy way out for them :p

And seek God's forgiveness, for God is surely forgiving and kind. (4:106) To "seek God's forgiveness" means "convert to Islam", and again, you know it. There are many verses telling us that unless one repents and adopts Islam he will never be saved from The Fire. The reason you're so easy to debate is that to prove Islam is a religion of intolerance, war, and world domination, all one has to do is quote the Qur'an and history.

[aboutime]

You have that exactly backwards, and you know it. Infidels do not have to "declare" themselves to be your god's enemy. Allah names them as such simply for not being Muslim. Read that quote again very carefully and you'll see that first allah lists his enemies, then declares that he returns the sentiment. If it had said, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is their enemy", you would have a point. But, he says, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers". It's crystal clear that it is simply unbelievers, any unbeliever, to whom he is referring in the first part of that statement, otherwise the inclusion of the word "unbelievers" at the end would be a non-sequitor. Why say "unbelievers" if that's not who he's talking about? Who am I? I'm someone who realizes that Islam was invented by Mohamed as a means of acquiring power and women.

To "seek God's forgiveness" means "convert to Islam", and again, you know it. There are many verses telling us that unless one repents and adopts Islam he will never be saved from The Fire. The reason you're so easy to debate is that to prove Islam is a religion of intolerance, war, and world domination, all one has to do is quote the Qur'an and history.



Unless jafar can prove, unquestionably, and positively that HE HEARD GOD say those things. Jafar has no credibility in this topic. Just as he would insist anyone...from any other religion has no credibility if they didn't hear GOD Speak.
That's what is great about FAITH. It is still the belief in the UNSEEN. Not...the Unheard.

[stevecanuck]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by stevecanuck http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=665468#post665468)
Kafar is the singular, and it's used countless times in the Qur'an. Yes, it's derogatory, but it's what allah uses to describe us, so again it's a tenet of Islam. It's simply the Arabic word for disbeliever...... It's used to describe those who are the enemy of allah, and as such is always used as a pejorative. Let me give you a real example: One of my Egyptian coworkers was upset with me because I made a decision that he didn't like. He sat there fuming and spitting and started calling me names. I heard "khawaga (which means foreigner and isn't in and of itself derisive, but the way he said it left no doubt), Calgareeeeeeeeeean (Calgarian), which is actually a compliment, but he said it with hate in his voice. Meanwhile, his Egyptian buddies were trying to calm him down, but it didn't work, and eventually he worked himself up to the point where he said, "KAFAR"! That, and this is the salient point, caused his coworkers to go wide-eyed, audibly suck in their breath, admonish Khalid, and apologize to me on his behalf. Clearly it was like calling a black person a N*****r. It's written with hate, and said with hate. You lose. Yet again.

[Arbo]

Unless jafar can prove, unquestionably, and positively that HE HEARD GOD say those things.

What have you hear the voic... um, GOD say?

[jafar00]

He doesn't. Verse 4:32 says, "allah la yeheb al kafireen" (God does NOT love infidels). The beautiful thing about debating with you is that all I have to do to show what a liar you are is to quote the Qur'an.

Actually it's 3:32. Wrong surah! :p

You just agreed with what I said anyway. God doesn't love "infidels" and will punish them in the afterlife for their bad deeds.


You have that exactly backwards, and you know it. Infidels do not have to "declare" themselves to be your god's enemy. Allah names them as such simply for not being Muslim. Read that quote again very carefully and you'll see that first allah lists his enemies, then declares that he returns the sentiment. If it had said, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is their enemy", you would have a point. But, he says, "Whoever is an enemy of Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, and Michael - indeed Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers". It's crystal clear that it is simply unbelievers, any unbeliever, to whom he is referring in the first part of that statement, otherwise the inclusion of the word "unbelievers" at the end would be a non-sequitor. Why say "unbelievers" if that's not who he's talking about?

You must admit, that verse is quite specific eh?


Who am I? I'm someone who realizes that Islam was invented by Mohamed as a means of acquiring power and women.

That's your opinion. Enjoy it while you still can.


To "seek God's forgiveness" means "convert to Islam", and again, you know it. There are many verses telling us that unless one repents and adopts Islam he will never be saved from The Fire. The reason you're so easy to debate is that to prove Islam is a religion of intolerance, war, and world domination, all one has to do is quote the Qur'an and history.

Does it mean to convert to Islam specifically? Or is it enough to just believe, be thankful in prayer and do good deeds?

All those who believe, and the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, in fact any one who believes in God and the Last Day, and performs good deeds, will have nothing to fear or regret. (5:59)


Unless jafar can prove, unquestionably, and positively that HE HEARD GOD say those things. Jafar has no credibility in this topic. Just as he would insist anyone...from any other religion has no credibility if they didn't hear GOD Speak.
That's what is great about FAITH. It is still the belief in the UNSEEN. Not...the Unheard.

The Qur'aan is literally the word of God so I guess I can prove it :p


It's used to describe those who are the enemy of allah, and as such is always used as a pejorative. Let me give you a real example: One of my Egyptian coworkers was upset with me because I made a decision that he didn't like. He sat there fuming and spitting and started calling me names. I heard "khawaga (which means foreigner and isn't in and of itself derisive, but the way he said it left no doubt), Calgareeeeeeeeeean (Calgarian), which is actually a compliment, but he said it with hate in his voice. Meanwhile, his Egyptian buddies were trying to calm him down, but it didn't work, and eventually he worked himself up to the point where he said, "KAFAR"! That, and this is the salient point, caused his coworkers to go wide-eyed, audibly suck in their breath, admonish Khalid, and apologize to me on his behalf. Clearly it was like calling a black person a N*****r. It's written with hate, and said with hate. You lose. Yet again.

Well, Egyptians do have hot blood. I know. I married one! :D