U.S. soldier Manning gets 35-year prison sentence

[jimnyc]

Good, I hope he rots in there. Should have got the full 90, IMO.


FORT MEADE, Maryland (Reuters) - Bradley Manning, the U.S. soldier convicted of the biggest breach of classified data in the nation's history by providing files to Wikileaks, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday.

Judge Colonel Denise Lind, who last month convicted Manning of 20 charges including espionage and theft, could have sentenced him to as many as 90 years in prison. Prosecutors had asked for 60 years.

Manning, 25, will be dishonorably discharged from the U.S. military and forfeit some pay, Lind said. His rank will be reduced to private from private first class.

Manning would be eligible for parole after serving one-third of his sentence, which will be reduced by the time he has already served in prison plus 112 days.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-soldier-manning-gets-35-144243851.html

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

good, i hope he rots in there. Should have got the full 90, imo.



http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-soldier-manning-gets-35-144243851.html

35 years out in 7.. Sob should have been shot!! This verdict gives the green light to others to do the same by it's extreme leniency.-tyr

[revelarts]

Sad day in America.
message sent. Don't say jack about illegal and corrupt acts you see performed by U.S. personnel and Allies while your working for the gov't.
or go to prison.
Annnd we'll make sure some Americans will be happy about you going to prison for telling about our murders and corruption.
Kapesh?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sad day in America.
message sent. Don't say jack about illegal and corrupt acts you see performed by U.S. personnel and Allies while your working for the gov't.
or go to prison.
Annnd we'll make sure some Americans will be happy about you going to prison for telling about our murders and corruption.
Kapesh? Sorry Rev, it doesn't work that way. The guy was U.S. military not a civilian. What he did was actually treason, he should have been shot. His action did far more damage that a soldier running away under fire or deserting from a military camp in a combat zone. Both those will get you shot . He should have been shot. Notice I did not take such a hard stand on Snowden? That's because he was a civilian not a soldier. -Tyr

[jimnyc]

Sad day in America.
message sent. Don't say jack about illegal and corrupt acts you see performed by U.S. personnel and Allies while your working for the gov't.
or go to prison.
Annnd we'll make sure some Americans will be happy about you going to prison for telling about our murders and corruption.
Kapesh?

Did he have his day in court? I believe he had a fair trial, where a judge looked at all the facts and made a fair decision. He CHOSE to steal the documents and deliver them to a 3rd part company instead of other legal avenues. Be angry all you like about what is inside of stolen documents, that I can see and feel quite similar to you, but that's still not a reason to turn a blind eye to criminal actions. And whether you agree or not, past actions to those who call themselves whistleblowers isn't a legal reason either. And lastly, not liking certain actions, or even feeling they might be illegal - is no reason to steal and release thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of documents which had nothing illegal in them, but were classified nonetheless and could place the USA in a bad position militarily, or put individuals in harms way. If it were solely about illegal corrupt acts, that's all Manning and Wiki would have released.

[aboutime]

Sad day in America.
message sent. Don't say jack about illegal and corrupt acts you see performed by U.S. personnel and Allies while your working for the gov't.
or go to prison.
Annnd we'll make sure some Americans will be happy about you going to prison for telling about our murders and corruption.
Kapesh?



Right you are rev. A sad, sad day in America when people with your mindset make people like him the VICTIM. Sad of you to sound so supportive of someone who had the potential to cause YOUR DEATH, or of your FAMILY.
But then. Considering the lowered educational backgrounds, and lack of Honor for our nation anymore. What else could anyone expect from you?

[jafar00]

It's a sad day when tyranny wins, and heroes lose.

[aboutime]

It's a sad day when tyranny wins, and heroes lose.


Since when are Hero's like Hamas losing jafar.

You enjoy tyranny, betrayal, and treason.

They make you feel stronger.

Tell us I'm wrong. Then prove it.

[Drummond]

Since when are Hero's like Hamas losing jafar.

You enjoy tyranny, betrayal, and treason.

They make you feel stronger.

Tell us I'm wrong. Then prove it.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[logroller]

Did he have his day in court? I believe he had a fair trial, where a judge looked at all the facts and made a fair decision. He CHOSE to steal the documents and deliver them to a 3rd part company instead of other legal avenues. Be angry all you like about what is inside of stolen documents, that I can see and feel quite similar to you, but that's still not a reason to turn a blind eye to criminal actions. And whether you agree or not, past actions to those who call themselves whistleblowers isn't a legal reason either. And lastly, not liking certain actions, or even feeling they might be illegal - is no reason to steal and release thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of documents which had nothing illegal in them, but were classified nonetheless and could place the USA in a bad position militarily, or put individuals in harms way. If it were solely about illegal corrupt acts, that's all Manning and Wiki would have released.
He has had his day in court, this is true. However, its arguable as to whether the trial was fair when Obama, the CiC, said that he broke the law before the court martial-- it's debatably an unlawful command influence and for much the same reason has the Fort Hood attack been classified as workplace violence and not terrorism. Regardless, I think Manning did, in fact, break the law and his sentence is justly deserved.

Now the question remains, will the other criminal actions, like firing on unarmed reporters, children and wounded, that manning exposed be prosecuted?

Somehow, i doubt it. of what value is justice if its only applied to some? It's a bit like hitting enough numbers in the lottery to get you another ticket-- just enough to keep you playing-- better luck next time whistleblowers. :thumbs:

[jimnyc]

He has had his day in court, this is true. However, its arguable as to whether the trial was fair when Obama, the CiC, said that he broke the law before the court martial-- it's debatably an unlawful command influence and for much the same reason has the Fort Hood attack been classified as workplace violence and not terrorism. Regardless, I think Manning did, in fact, break the law and his sentence is justly deserved.

Now the question remains, will the other criminal actions, like firing on unarmed reporters, children and wounded, that manning exposed be prosecuted?

Somehow, i doubt it. of what value is justice if its only applied to some? It's a bit like hitting enough numbers in the lottery to get you another ticket-- just enough to keep you playing-- better luck next time whistleblowers. :thumbs:

As to the Manning trial, the bold is really all that matters. He broke the law and was prosecuted as a result. This hardly makes him a hero.

As to what I put in red, I would hope some of what has been released would be investigated and some proven guilty and sentenced. Somehow I doubt we'll see much of that as well. Regardless of whether that happens or not though, it doesn't give ANYONE carte blanche to break the law.

Oh, and he's not a whistleblower in the appropriate context. Releasing information in an illegal manner is not blowing the whistle, so to speak. He had an opportunity to be a whistleblower but chose the illegal route instead.

[logroller]

As to the Manning trial, the bold is really all that matters. He broke the law and was prosecuted as a result. This hardly makes him a hero.

As to what I put in red, I would hope some of what has been released would be investigated and some proven guilty and sentenced. Somehow I doubt we'll see much of that as well. Regardless of whether that happens or not though, it doesn't give ANYONE carte blanche to break the law.

Oh, and he's not a whistleblower in the appropriate context. Releasing information in an illegal manner is not blowing the whistle, so to speak. He had an opportunity to be a whistleblower but chose the illegal route instead.
"Hope", eh-- and change? Not for the better that I see. N'er said he was a hero by the way; but I would say that the ends can justify means--but that's *NOT* likely the case here, is it-- agreed?

Was manning a Whistleblower? well no, legally you're right. Clearly he wasn't given the protection that "whistleblowers" are, but, then neither are a lot of legal whistleblowers, so it becomes grayer as time marches on. That's the change Obama has wrought upon the nation...for the worse in most all respects near as I can tell.

[jimnyc]

"Hope", eh-- and change? Not for the better that I see. N'er said he was a hero by the way; but I would say that the ends can justify means--but that's *NOT* likely the case here, is it-- agreed?

Was manning a Whistleblower? well no, legally you're right. Clearly he wasn't given the protection that "whistleblowers" are, but, then neither are a lot of legal whistleblowers, so it becomes grayer as time marches on. That's the change Obama has wrought upon the nation...for the worse in most all respects near as I can tell.

My bad, didn't mean to imply you were the one who claimed he was a hero, just used my reply to you as my platform!

Can the ends justify the means? I'd be lying if I said no. For example, I always believed that torturing terrorists to get information was well worth it - BUT - I do concede that NOW they must stay within the law, even if I disagree personally. My feeling has always been though, that once you allow laws to be broken, even if some feel for good reasons, your welcoming more laws to be broken, for what others consider good reasons.

What needs to be happening now is someone/group demanding an investigation on any illegal activities exposed. I honestly don't know who would be qualified to lead that charge. And if it's something that is privileged/confidential, I think the senate intelligence committee should be, at the very least, convening on the information. I dare say the DOJ should be perhaps taking a peek, but we're not in the humor section right now.

I DO believe that both events can be looked at independent of one another. But just because it's so much harder to get the government punished, doesn't mean we should look the other way when someone releases such information, which obviously then becomes available to our enemies. Like I said earlier, I'm sure they could have strictly limited the releases to illegal activities by the government/politicians, and took the stand like so called "whistleblowers", but instead, the mother load was released, without hesitation.

[jafar00]

Anders Breivik got a 21 year sentence for killing 77 people in cold blood.
Bradley Manning got 35 years for exposing gross abuses and war crimes by the US.

Instead of investigating those abuses, they just jail the whistle blower.

All Manning did was to expose the truth to the public who deserve to know what their elected officials are up to in their name.

As patriotic Americans, why are you celebrating the fact that he has been jailed for this instead of being outraged at what he exposed?

[DragonStryk72]

Sad day in America.
message sent. Don't say jack about illegal and corrupt acts you see performed by U.S. personnel and Allies while your working for the gov't.
or go to prison.
Annnd we'll make sure some Americans will be happy about you going to prison for telling about our murders and corruption.
Kapesh?

Sorry, Rev, but he knew what was coming when he did it, right or wrong. But the thing is that he had other options, apart from just shutting up. He could have filed complaints through the military court systems, and in point of that, that was his responsibility if he was witness to breaches of the Constitution. One of the main parts of the oath we take is "defend the Constution and the laws", so when those laws are getting broken by our superiors, we then have the responsibility to defend it from them.

In the end, he took the coward's way out, hiding behind his computer screen while he directly endangered US troops. Sorry, much as I believe that a number of things they were doing were wrong, he didn't have to do it the way he did.

[Gaffer]

Manning was not a whistle blower. He was a traitor. The information he gave out endangered agents and foreign informants. We don't even know how many were killed because it's classified.

He might be a hero to you because your friends in the brotherhood and hamas could know who to turn their attention too. Also security information that could help them gain access to facilities. He handed out tons of information that wiki disseminated.

He's going to Leavenworth, a hard labor facility. He won't have a happy time there.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Anders Breivik got a 21 year sentence for killing 77 people in cold blood.
Bradley Manning got 35 years for exposing gross abuses and war crimes by the US.

Instead of investigating those abuses, they just jail the whistle blower.

All Manning did was to expose the truth to the public who deserve to know what their elected officials are up to in their name.

As patriotic Americans, why are you celebrating the fact that he has been jailed for this instead of being outraged at what he exposed?
Different country with slap on the wrist laws in the Breivik case , can not compare. HOWEVER, ON MANNING HE SPIED AND OUR PEOPLE AND OUR ALLIES UNDERCOVER PEOPLE DIED. HOW MANY WE DO NOT KNOW BUT HE GATHERED TONS OF INFO AND GAVE IT TO OUR ENEMIES BY WAY OF A PROXY= WIKILEAKS. HE ENGAGED IN TREASON BY SPYING AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT. TOO MUCH POLITICAL INFLUENCE AND OBAMA BEING THE CIC IS WHY HE WAS NOT CHARGED PROPERLY AND GIVEN THE DEATH SENTENCE HE EVER SO RICHLY DESERVED. HELL, GIVE ME THE LEGAL AUTHORITY AND I'D SHOOT HIS SORRY ASS MYSELF. -TYR

[revelarts]

Manning was no spy. what country was he Spying FOR? What was his Payment?
maybe the u.s. gov't knows that too b..b..but it's classified! yeah, just trust us.
He states clearly he was getting the info out to the American People and the Iraqi people we were so concerned about libereratin and bringing democracy and justice too.




In 2010, while stationed at Forward Operating Base Hammer in Baghdad, Pfc. Bradley Manning decided to approach a superior officer in his chain of command to voice his concern about something he had stumbled upon in his capacity as an intelligence analyst. His unit had been helping Iraqi federal police identify suspects for detention and discovered that fifteen men had been arrested for producing “anti-Iraqi literature." After having a high-resolution photo of the “literature” translated into English, Manning discovered that the writing was hardly criminal; it was a "scholarly critique" of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. But his superior officer did not want to hear about it. Manning knew if he continued to assist the police in identifying political opponents, innocent people would be jailed, likely tortured, and “not seen again for a very long time, if ever,” as he told a military courtroom in Fort Meade, MD on February 28. Hoping to expose what was happening ahead of the Iraq parliamentary election, on March 7, 2010, Manning shared the information with WikiLeaks.Bradley Manning Tried to Warn Us About the Crisis In Iraq. Will We Listen to Him Now? | The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/article/173447/bradley-manning-tried-warn-us-about-crisis-iraq-will-we-listen-him-now#)

"Proper channels" in our new police state don't work . pass time to open your eyes people.




On MSNBC’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” on June 10, Jeremy Bash, a former chief of staff to secretary of defense Leon Panetta, asserted, “If you have a complaint, you go through this process. You talk to your supervisor. If you don`t trust your supervisor, you go to the inspector general. If you don`t trust the inspector general, you can go to Congress. There are multiple ways to make your concerns heard. Running for China is not one of them.”...

>BUT in real life...<

.....
Thomas Drake, who also exposed the NSA’s massive secret surveillance programs and what the NSA should have known prior to the September 11th attacks, told Firedoglake, “Everything I passed on to Congress it just went into a black hole.”

...
Department of Defense Inspector General Gave Up Four NSA Whistleblowers to the Justice Department

Binney, Drake, Loomis and Wiebe all tried to call attention to what they wanted to expose internally. They made complaints to the Department of Defense inspector general (IG) and the IG turned around and “gave up the names of all four whistleblowers to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution.”

“They totally sold the witnesses they were supposed to be protecting down the river,” Radack said. They all became “targets of federal criminal investigation. Drake was prosecuted for espionage.”

Drake said the channels are there. The IG is the “office of primary responsibility for those who want to bring something of issue.” However, the IG is in the chain of command under the director. “They’re beholden to the agency’s chain of command,” which makes the NSA a “hostile environment for bringing any kind of information that would make them look bad.”

The Department of Defense eventually substantiated Drake’s claims, but they immediately classified the report so no one knew why exactly he was blowing the whistle....

Internally, Drake said he was flagged early on for raising issues within NSA. He experienced “all kinds of bureaucratic and administrative reprisals” starting as early as late fall of 2001.

Binney told USA Today during a roundtable discussion with Drake, Radack and Wiebe:

We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or — we couldn’t get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general’s office didn’t pay any attention to it. And all of the efforts we made just produced no change whatsoever. All it did was continue to get worse and expand....

rad more at
Going Through the ‘Proper Channels’ to Blow the Whistle on Secret Surveillance Programs | The Dissenter (http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/06/16/going-through-the-proper-channels-to-blow-the-whistle-on-secret-surveillance-programs/)


At this point in our nations history these whistle blowers are Heroes and our own Gov't officials are is the tyrannical unconstitutional criminal.


all of the whistle blowers are trying to tell Us that the security and military state has gone treasonous and corrupt.
You can agree with the REAL criminals and shoot the messengers and wave the flag all you like.
we are in at this moment an unhinged police surveillance state unlike none in history. With a side of illegal corrupt wars and a President that assumes he can kill or jail anyone in the world he pleases.

but it's all for your safety.
Wave the flag and obey obey obey, whatever law they come up with and "you'll have nothing to worry about".
this is America.

[jafar00]

Manning was not a whistle blower. He was a traitor. The information he gave out endangered agents and foreign informants. We don't even know how many were killed because it's classified.

He might be a hero to you because your friends in the brotherhood and hamas could know who to turn their attention too. Also security information that could help them gain access to facilities. He handed out tons of information that wiki disseminated.

He's going to Leavenworth, a hard labor facility. He won't have a happy time there.

What of the heinous crimes he uncovered? Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed? Aren't you angry that your govt hasn't arrested anyone involved or even apologised?

Michael Moore summed it up well.

"Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases of torture and murder. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are." – Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system)

[Gaffer]

What of the heinous crimes he uncovered? Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed? Aren't you angry that your govt hasn't arrested anyone involved or even apologised?

Michael Moore summed it up well.

"Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases of torture and murder. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are." – Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system)

He exposed innocent people to torture and death. I would hope that the govt would follow up on what he revealed, but with our present DiC running things I won't hold my breath. He exposed spying operations on lots of countries that pissed off those countries leaders. It's just not mentioned that those countries have the same sort of operations going on in this country.

moore is just a fat talking turd. Nothing but shit comes out of his mouth. He's lower than gnat piss.

[Marcus Aurelius]

What was Mannings payment, you may ask?

It appears that it will be hormone therapy, and an eventual sex change operation...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/22/us-usa-wikileaks-manning-idUSBRE97J0JI20130822

WikiLeaker Manning says is female, wants to live as a woman
"As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning, I am a female," Manning, 25, said in the statement read on NBC News' "Today" show.

"Given the way that I feel and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible," Manning said. "I also request that starting today you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun."
Manning's lawyer David Coombs said on the program that he expected Manning to get a pardon from President Barack Obama.



There is already precedent set in court where judges have orders an inmates sex change paid for by tax dollars. How sick would it be if that is why Manning really did all this... to get a freebie sex change. Wow.

[CSM]

What of the heinous crimes he uncovered? Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed? Aren't you angry that your govt hasn't arrested anyone involved or even apologised?

Michael Moore summed it up well.

"Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases of torture and murder. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are." – Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system)

Michael Moore??/ really?

I have to ask, Jafar, what the religion of Islam would do regarding a perceived traitor? Seriously, are there people who are considered "whistleblowers" in your religion? If so, what is the punishment? If the "whistleblower" points out flaws in your religion, does Islam apologise?

I have tried to keep an open mind with your posts Jafar, but with each passing day, it becomes more and more evident that you take great delight in pointing out the flaws of the US and its government and lightly pass over or excuse the flaws of Australia and Islam (and yes there are some for both).

[glockmail]

Hilarious that this guy is now confused as to his sexuality. As if his new "friends" care. :laugh:

[Gaffer]

We now know his motive. He wants a sex change. And wants to have the govt pay for it.

[glockmail]

He'll get that and plenty of man-on-man attention. :laugh:

[aboutime]

Michael Moore??/ really?

I have to ask, Jafar, what the religion of Islam would do regarding a perceived traitor? Seriously, are there people who are considered "whistleblowers" in your religion? If so, what is the punishment? If the "whistleblower" points out flaws in your religion, does Islam apologise?

I have tried to keep an open mind with your posts Jafar, but with each passing day, it becomes more and more evident that you take great delight in pointing out the flaws of the US and its government and lightly pass over or excuse the flaws of Australia and Islam (and yes there are some for both).


CSM. That has to be the funniest thing I've read here today. How comical it is for someone like jafar, a known supporter of terrorist groups coming here to offer LAME LIES from another Terrorist supporter like Moore???

[jimnyc]

Manning was no spy. what country was he Spying FOR? What was his Payment?
maybe the u.s. gov't knows that too b..b..but it's classified! yeah, just trust us.
He states clearly he was getting the info out to the American People and the Iraqi people we were so concerned about libereratin and bringing democracy and justice too.


Bradley Manning Tried to Warn Us About the Crisis In Iraq. Will We Listen to Him Now? | The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/article/173447/bradley-manning-tried-warn-us-about-crisis-iraq-will-we-listen-him-now#)

"Proper channels" in our new police state don't work . pass time to open your eyes people.





At this point in our nations history these whistle blowers are Heroes and our own Gov't officials are is the tyrannical unconstitutional criminal.


all of the whistle blowers are trying to tell Us that the security and military state has gone treasonous and corrupt.
You can agree with the REAL criminals and shoot the messengers and wave the flag all you like.
we are in at this moment an unhinged police surveillance state unlike none in history. With a side of illegal corrupt wars and a President that assumes he can kill or jail anyone in the world he pleases.

but it's all for your safety.
Wave the flag and obey obey obey, whatever law they come up with and "you'll have nothing to worry about".
this is America.

If his concern/intent was to get out illegal information, or corruption, to the American people - then why did he steal 5000% more documents than that and have ALL of it released? EVEN IF, he still deserves jail for his reckless behavior and not giving a shit about the totality of what he released, or should I say STOLE, and passed off to a 3rd party. Personally, I still wouldn't have excused the way he went about exposing what he did, but if his intentions were pure and to simply "blow the whistle", he wouldn't have released so much confidential information that WAS NOT illegal and/or corruption in any sense of the words.

[jimnyc]

Michael Moore??/ really?

I have to ask, Jafar, what the religion of Islam would do regarding a perceived traitor? Seriously, are there people who are considered "whistleblowers" in your religion? If so, what is the punishment? If the "whistleblower" points out flaws in your religion, does Islam apologise?

I have tried to keep an open mind with your posts Jafar, but with each passing day, it becomes more and more evident that you take great delight in pointing out the flaws of the US and its government and lightly pass over or excuse the flaws of Australia and Islam (and yes there are some for both).

Depends on where the speaker is doing the speaking. If in a non-shitty-islamic country, he will be declared "not a real muslim", and will have a bounty on his head. If in a muslim controlled country, messing with the "religion", he would be charged with blasphemy, but no bounty, just having his head removed.

And yep, America has MANY flaws to point out, we all know that. But we are ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in comparison to the absolute shit people and leaders in islamic countries. And that there is a FACT.

[logroller]

What of the heinous crimes he uncovered? Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed? Aren't you angry that your govt hasn't arrested anyone involved or even apologised?

Michael Moore summed it up well.

"Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases of torture and murder. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are." – Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system)

Michael Moore would do well to consider how such political dissent and, furthermore, Manning's exposé would be dealt with in the countries where these exposed crimes occurred. Its a real "let them eat cake' kind of rationale.

Have you personally ever taken a life or been witness to it, knowing full well that its you or them and they'll torture and kill you, your family and anyone else who stands between them and absolute control?

I'll bet Michael Moore hasn't; but that doesn't dissuade him from taking the high road, in utter disregard of the fact this road was cleared by the blood, sweat and bullets of others before him and the only thing that keeps that road open are people willing and capable of doing so once again.

And quite frankly, Australia would still be a prison colony, likely under Japanese rule if it weren't for the USA and its willingness to champion the spirit of freedom. You're welcome, not that you've given any thanks. :salute:

[revelarts]

If his concern/intent was to get out illegal information, or corruption, to the American people - then why did he steal 5000% more documents than that and have ALL of it released? EVEN IF, he still deserves jail for his reckless behavior and not giving a shit about the totality of what he released, or should I say STOLE, and passed off to a 3rd party. Personally, I still wouldn't have excused the way he went about exposing what he did, but if his intentions were pure and to simply "blow the whistle", he wouldn't have released so much confidential information that WAS NOT illegal and/or corruption in any sense of the words.

so what's the point of all the rest jim? He could have saved your family from being killed with what he did, But you still would say he should go to jail for life because he didn't do it in a way that you approved of. "It was illegal and treason."

But if soldiers waterboard people AND IT"S AGAINST THE LAW. But it's OK. because they MIGHT have info on a POSSIBLE attack. And it's been Approved up the "proper channels" sorta more or less. AND IT WORKS!!!

I hear you.

[jafar00]

He exposed innocent people to torture and death. I would hope that the govt would follow up on what he revealed, but with our present DiC running things I won't hold my breath. He exposed spying operations on lots of countries that pissed off those countries leaders. It's just not mentioned that those countries have the same sort of operations going on in this country.

moore is just a fat talking turd. Nothing but shit comes out of his mouth. He's lower than gnat piss.

You may not agree with him but can you refute that quote?


Michael Moore??/ really?

I have to ask, Jafar, what the religion of Islam would do regarding a perceived traitor? Seriously, are there people who are considered "whistleblowers" in your religion? If so, what is the punishment? If the "whistleblower" points out flaws in your religion, does Islam apologise?

I have tried to keep an open mind with your posts Jafar, but with each passing day, it becomes more and more evident that you take great delight in pointing out the flaws of the US and its government and lightly pass over or excuse the flaws of Australia and Islam (and yes there are some for both).

Sure Australia has flaws and in just over 2 weeks we get to vote about them and try to get someone in govt who will fix them.

Islam has not flaws. Muslims however, do and I freely admit that. Nobody is perfect. If I saw a fellow Muslim doing it wrong it would be my duty to point it out and I have done in the past.


Depends on where the speaker is doing the speaking. If in a non-shitty-islamic country, he will be declared "not a real muslim", and will have a bounty on his head. If in a muslim controlled country, messing with the "religion", he would be charged with blasphemy, but no bounty, just having his head removed.

You mean like Bassem Yousef?


Michael Moore would do well to consider how such political dissent and, furthermore, Manning's exposé would be dealt with in the countries where these exposed crimes occurred. Its a real "let them eat cake' kind of rationale.

Have you personally ever taken a life or been witness to it, knowing full well that its you or them and they'll torture and kill you, your family and anyone else who stands between them and absolute control?

No, I can't say I have.


I'll bet Michael Moore hasn't; but that doesn't dissuade him from taking the high road, in utter disregard of the fact this road was cleared by the blood, sweat and bullets of others before him and the only thing that keeps that road open are people willing and capable of doing so once again.

And quite frankly, Australia would still be a prison colony, likely under Japanese rule if it weren't for the USA and its willingness to champion the spirit of freedom. You're welcome, not that you've given any thanks. :salute:

Australians did their own fighting in the war remember. We also entered the war 2 years before you. :p