No need for State Ratification when you have “Executive Order” [Archive] - Debate Policy

Larrymc

08-18-2013, 09:55 AM

Changing Constitution by executive order?

Obama declares health insurance a 'right'

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/obama-declares-health-insurance-a-right/

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 10:12 AM

Changing Constitution by executive order?

Obama declares health insurance a 'right'

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/obama-declares-health-insurance-a-right/
Excellent find. The comments there are priceless. -Tyr

fj1200

08-18-2013, 12:20 PM

Changing Constitution by executive order?

Not really but it sure riles some people up.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 12:36 PM

Not really but it sure riles some people up. Yes, the truth about corruption and treason is apt to do that ,huh? ;)

fj1200

08-18-2013, 12:39 PM

Yes, the truth about corruption and treason is apt to do that ,huh? ;)

What truth is that exactly?

aboutime

08-18-2013, 12:46 PM

What truth is that exactly?

fj. Are you asking for Your version of what liberals call truth, or...the real truth, not created by people you must always obey, and follow?

There is a difference in the definition of that word. Not something many liberals are familiar with.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 12:49 PM

What truth is that exactly?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658763#post658763)
Yes, the truth about corruption and treason is apt to do that ,huh? ;)
That Obama and his administration are neck deep into it...:facepalm99:

fj1200

08-18-2013, 12:52 PM

fj. Are you asking for Your version of what liberals call truth, or...the real truth, not created by people you must always obey, and follow?

There is a difference in the definition of that word. Not something many liberals are familiar with.

Um, your pal brought up 'truth' for which I was inquiring about specifics.

aboutime

08-18-2013, 12:54 PM

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658763#post658763) That Obama and his administration are neck deep into it...:facepalm99:

Tyr. We know from years of experience on forums. Whenever someone like fj forces himself to ask such a question about Truth. It usually means they deny the real truth, and always accept the Liberal version of truth...repeated often enough...even they are convinced it is true.

Old story, different version.

fj1200

08-18-2013, 12:55 PM

That Obama and his administration are neck deep into it...:facepalm99:

Um, this thread is about the myth of health care as a right and the apparent creation of rights by Fireside Chat.

fj1200

08-18-2013, 12:56 PM

Tyr. We know from years of experience on forums. Whenever someone like fj forces himself to ask such a question about Truth. It usually means they deny the real truth, and always accept the Liberal version of truth...repeated often enough...even they are convinced it is true.

Old story, different version.

I'm not even sure what that 'real truth' is supposed to be here. :confused:

aboutime

08-18-2013, 01:00 PM

<strike>Um, this thread is about the myth of health care as a right and the apparent creation of rights by Fireside Chat.</strike>

FJ still impressing himself with STRIKES.....and THREE of them means he's OUT of his mind.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 01:01 PM

Um, your pal brought up 'truth' for which I was inquiring about specifics. Here is a link and a great lead on how and why Obama is guilty of treason and should be impeached. I advise you to read it. -------------

http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/articlesofimpeachment/ <iframe name="I0_1376848648660" width="100%" tabindex="0" title="+1" id="I0_1376848648660" src="https://apis.google.com/_/+1/fastbutton?bsv=o&usegapi=1&size=medium&hl=en-US&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impeachobamacampaign.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impeachobamacampaign.com%2Far ticlesofimpeachment%2F&gsrc=3p&ic=1&jsh=m%3B%2F_%2Fscs%2Fapps-static%2F_%2Fjs%2Fk%3Doz.gapi.en_US.YNSqJMGEDWM.O% 2Fm%3D__features__%2Fam%3DEQ%2Frt%3Dj%2Fd%3D1%2Frs %3DAItRSTN1JOOGg2G9OwkFtj9xc3D_OIzkhA#_methods=onP lusOne%2C_ready%2C_close%2C_open%2C_resizeMe%2C_re nderstart%2Concircled&id=I0_1376848648660&parent=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impeachobamacampaign.com&pfname=&rpctoken=97008383" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no" vspace="0" hspace="0" style="margin: 0px; left: 0px; top: 0px; width: 90px; height: 20px; visibility: visible; position: static;" data-gapiattached="true"></iframe>

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ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT OF PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA

RESOLVED, That Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following article of impeachment to be exhibited to the Senate:

ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT EXHIBITED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN THE NAME OF ITSELF AND OF ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AGAINST BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IN MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT OF ITS IMPEACHMENT AGAINST HIM FOR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS IN USURPING THE EXCLUSIVE PREROGATIVE OF CONGRESS TO COMENCE WAR UNDER ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 11 OF THE CONSTITUTION.

ARTICLE I

In his conduct of the office of President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has usurped the exclusive power of Congress to initiate war under Article I, section 8, clause 11 of the United States Constitution by unilaterally commencing war against the Republic of Libya on March 19, 2011, declaring that Congress is powerless to constrain his conduct of the war, and claiming authority in the future to commence war unilaterally to advance whatever he ordains is in the national interest. By so doing and declaring, Barack Hussein Obama has mocked the rule of law, endangered the very existence of the Republic and the liberties of the people, and perpetrated an impeachable high crime and misdemeanor as hereinafter elaborated.

I.

THE IMPEACHMENT POWER

1. Article II, Section IV of the United States Constitution provides: “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

2. According to James Madison’s Records of the Convention, 2:550; Madison, 8 Sept., Mr. George Mason objected to an initial proposal to confine impeachable offenses to treason or bribery:

Why is the provision restrained to Treason & bribery only? Treason as defined in the Constitution will not reach many great and dangerous offences. Hastings is not guilty of Treason. Attempts to subvert the Constitution may not be Treason as above defined–As bills of attainder which have saved the British Constitution are forbidden, it is the more necessary to extend: the power of impeachments.

3. Delegates to the Federal Convention voted overwhelmingly to include “high crimes and misdemeanors” in Article II, Section IV of the United States Constitution specifically to ensure that “attempts to subvert the Constitution” would fall within the universe of impeachable offences. Id.

aboutime

08-18-2013, 01:02 PM

I'm not even sure what that 'real truth' is supposed to be here. :confused:

Of course your not. That's what we have been telling you all along. So, stick to the Liberal versions and you'll be joined by equally uninformed fans forever.

<strike>STRIKE THAT next.</strike>

fj1200

08-18-2013, 01:06 PM

FJ still impressing himself with STRIKES.....and THREE of them means he's OUT of his mind.

Not sure what this thread is about are you?

Here is a link and a great lead on how and why Obama is guilty of treason and should be impeached. I advise you to read it.

All well and good but a quick perusal showed no reference to health care nor created rights.

fj1200

08-18-2013, 01:08 PM

Of course your not. That's what we have been telling you all along. So, stick to the Liberal versions and you'll be joined by equally uninformed fans forever.

<strike>STRIKE THAT next.</strike>

WTF are you even talking about? Your buddy brought up 'truth' and as of yet has not been able to relate it to the topic of this thread; perhaps you can help... :laugh: Almost got that out without laughing.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 01:12 PM

Not sure what this thread is about are you?

All well and good but a quick perusal showed no reference to health care nor created rights.
Are you unaware that Obama has declared free healthcare a right? And that link did not contain everything but obvious that you must have done a lightning quick perusal of the link to have made that observation. How about checking these if you truly want to find the truth.
Levin Goes Off On CIA Double Agent Leaks - Fox Nation - Fox News (http://nation.foxnews.com/mark-levin/2012/05/09/levin-goes-cia-double-agent-leaks-disgrace-treason)<cite>nation.foxnews.com/mark-levin/.../levin-goes-cia-double-agent-leaks-dis...</cite>‎

Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_6JBkEe98wAJ:nation.foxnews.com/mark-levin/2012/05/09/levin-goes-cia-double-agent-leaks-disgrace-treason+mark+levin+on+obama's+treason&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

May 9, 2012 - Mark Levin discussed the thwarted bomb plot in Yemen and says that whoever leaked the information to the press is partaking in treason.

MARK LEVIN on Obama's race speech: “I'm ashamed of this ... (http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-on-obamas-race-speech-im-ashamed-of-this-president-i-think-hes-a-disgrace/)http://www.debatepolicy.com/image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBwgHBgkIBwgKCgkLDRYPDQwMDRsUFRAWIB0iIiAdHx 8kKDQsJCYxJx8fLT0tMTU3Ojo6Iys/RD84QzQ5OjcBCgoKDQwNGg8PGjclHyU3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nz c3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3N//AABEIADEAeAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAACAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAFBgAEAQMHAgj/xAA9EAACAQMCAwQHAwoHAAAAAAABAgMABBEFEgYhMRNBUWEHFC IycYGRc7HRIzQ1NkJScqGywRVTYmSS8PH/xAAaAQACAwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAwEEBQAG/8QAIxEAAgICAwAABwAAAAAAAAAAAAECEQMSBCExExQjMkFRgf/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8ARrTRLfUbUTWl0yMOTxyKG2n4jHLwq9oei yWN809w0b4XEe0957/p99L+mX8mn3QmXJU8pE/eX8afowGIOMZ7jVgrKhX4qtJ/8Q9YSCVoTEuZFQlQRnqfhigY5jIrp0+q2Wj24lunO8j2Ik5s/wAB/c8qQdW1A6pevdG2gt88tsK4z5k9586OALRttuIdTs9OFhYXHqk GSzmAbXkY95brnoOWOQp49DnELxaneabdzO4uB2yGRixLDkwyf EY/4muZmrOmX0um6jb3sB/KQOHHn4j5jI+dFKNo6MqYRuYheWYC83j5oPvH8hQMjFEdOuuzA V28smiEvDtxdSrcq8VtaSQyTvLIw9lIwS7hB7TDljIGM8s07NU o7/kFJ30L1dx9GsiD0dWij/MnVvj2hP3EUm2PBejW+ni71TVEdJoHAlD7I0LtF2U6ZwSqpKrM G/e8jRHhGOWX0cqYpZ0lg1CVcQPyJIU8z0x4ePzrO5DU8bSLnFWu VNjkhFaLhc5yeVCOHtQmu9Pklm7YmP8Aalj2MflQK9e9naS4uD dvEBuEML4yM45DIJPwrHjjt0eheSo7B+6kRFyhB+FLt65adWY4 IOa1aeJZZTsimhUHpJ3/AI1NYUmCUqCxQZ2g9RTccdZCsr3xjLxLqEOmcE2t3PaJdC4uFi Ebe62Uc5OQeXs1mlq3U3vDUj3suLNYpiYsZ2sgJDc+/JyMVitPBkuNJGRy+K8clbXaE3QbM3upxIVzGn5R/gO764FN51Wzi1KKyZ8yu2046Ie4HzPSku2vZ7OCWO3YRtNgNIP ewO4eFVM4YDdhmPLB5k+XnTygmMvHA26tCP8AbL/U1AsYSmDWbS91H1PUb5DawiOCC5klGGiJkkQuU6hco/hzGKNR6Do2iXF/JfMLx9NRjJa3DJifa6c0CnBPKRCm5iN6E8yQCU4xQSg2JdlYXV +5WzgaXaCzNkKqgdSWJCgDl1I6imTS+B7ua1kvbxZXhVN8UFty a8Bh7WPs3IIO73ehwRjrRTUuNNMsWkttKgklMZj23NrJ6uJSm6 M7xtIO5NrZx3gH3FIUNV1/UNUnlkmdYkkXYYoF2LsEjSKvmFZuXgAKHaUvOidYx9HWFuFOG8 rPDJFebYgyTpvuIw8MjFvj+UETqMAFQ2AeVaeGZrjVtOuGs4RH caTphb15ss4A5lNudhBLSgblPs8jk86nCBs9d4fOn6hCkzWjbS G6hWyVYHqD1GR+7TrwZpVnolhf2NoHb1wNuaQ5Y5UgL06DP8zU KWt2EnZzbi6GV+HdLurh1lmLLvkAAGSnQAYAA27QAAABjFN3ox ikfgK7VQCsl+4YHw2R/hQXQRFdwzaLqsBIPtLFMCGRwOa+Knv+vjTXwdFZ2vC+p2WlXiz Rw3e9ssCI8qMjI69KHmY9IuK/gfFf1otlq4t0tNMCRjGRuPd16f8AfOqFmsM8ZAwWXqO8VQ1h4d Tie39fYxrhWVXweXdVW1vLSyJhgYbiBzC5B8OndWR8P9HoIZUl VBK97OFTgAGhtgyPfxtIuYyQCCOuTjHzrfcu1xg/WvVqsZuII4veMgxz6c//ACpxxp2BmypxpC/xRHdaTwxLbTKyLPevbx9QSqtuY/Pao+dSmT0k+qardaVpj3MZzcTRyFc7kkwNmO49CCPl1xUrVwVC NGJypyzZLYn8OcFjW9MW/fUFjjkWWNVQDMUwZVj355FCWBOOgI8aOR33DfCrzeqgGWW1hW5 swXZ+02hiA5BGGSRwwJwHVOWMgCrngriG2tXtbO8hmtSxcxJIY yxIAOQRjntXlnHsjwoBdcN61Yr+X0m6CD9qOPtFHzXIFFrs/RN0ukG9T40utQnlaC0tvbiWEzXUCSO6jacsvuE713jcGKlmwcG l/Uru7vZFkvbqe5dRhTNIX2jwGeg8hXiyUODju5Hyr1cx4HKrMcU UukA5N+lCs1kit9g9rHdxyX8by26nLRJgGTwUk9B4+VCwR79Hm iz28D6pcMyC4TbFF4pnO4/Tl5Z8ac0l9XzKzhVQbixOAAK5lqPHWq3IKWgiso+g7NdzY+J5f QCmO11o6hwLe3Tvm4htpIZfHftwD88g0iUW+xkZLwIcX8U8Ma1 bILaKS51OMALdQrsUeTE++PLB8iKW/R3erput3mjzuI4tVjEccrH3ZBnZ9dzD44pP0927dUjVnY9FUZJ +VFr607cwQl1W7aQJFEOcjEnAGB0OcdcVZcYPC4tkKT2UkdPuN MWyzAV2dnyDLj2h9KDXEMnbgYJRuR2gA0b1Ewvp8Gm6tezNf2s SK13GAe1bAByPj5+FV4dLvrpNu71a1A5zSqQz8+5ev1xWR8F7U jW+aqFgm6nS2ilYTgW6IAGc4wMd5pbl1+ZGeSzzDbRHJuHGDn/SPp58ulF+KbvSbAlYlErxDnNKM4/hHTP865vqeoy37+17EKn2Yx958TViOBL0py5M5dI3XutTXGox3 CMwWFsxg8/mfM1KGqCThRk/dWKYlQo+kn96rEfX51KlCvTjnvpK/TkP2X4Um3HuGpUrRx/aLl6DH6mvJqVKUxbMUyaB+q/Ef2UX3ms1KXLw6Ppu4P8AzC+/h/CqfDv62R/Cb+hqlSgY1eHUh+mLz7If00X1T9HL/Cv3CpUqIhTOFcY/nL/b/wBjS4alSpBie4vdb41KlSlhH//Z►► (http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-on-obamas-race-speech-im-ashamed-of-this-president-i-think-hes-a-disgrace/)

<cite>therightscoop.com/mark-levin-on-obamas-race-speech...</cite>
Jul 19, 2013
Mark Levin said that Ronald Reagan always talked up America, .... @<wbr>seeingtoomuch @spyderdalton if ...

The Clamor for Obama's Impeachment - Akdart.com (http://www.akdart.com/obama86.html)<cite>www.akdart.com/obama86.html</cite>‎

Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:COnAYTW0DcUJ:www.akdart.com/obama86.html+mark+levin+on+obama's+treason&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Levin: If Obama sidesteps Congress on debt ceiling, 'no choice' but impeachment<wbr>. On his Monday [1/14/2013] radio show, conservative talker Mark Levin said ...

Obama Calls For Dictatorship In America! Communists Democrats ... (http://www.dailypaul.com/294796/obama-calls-for-dictatorship-in-america-communists-democrats-cheer-treason-caught-on-video)<cite class="bc">www.dailypaul.com › Forums (http://www.dailypaul.com/forum) › Daily Paul Liberty Forum (http://www.dailypaul.com/forums/daily-paul-liberty-forum)</cite>‎

Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uVm54Hwx5ygJ:www.dailypaul.com/294796/obama-calls-for-dictatorship-in-america-communists-democrats-cheer-treason-caught-on-video+mark+levin+on+obama's+treason&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Aug 3, 2013 - The AUDACITY of TREASON! Barack Hussein Obama, someone's teleprompter-<wbr>reading puppet in the White House, is sending up trial ...

fj1200

08-18-2013, 01:17 PM

Are you unaware that Obama has declared free healthcare a right? And that link did not contain everything but obvious that you must have done a lightning quick perusal of the link to have made that observation. How about checking these if you truly want to find the truth.

Yes, he sucks, he craps on the Constitution, I've never disagreed but he can declare anything a right in a Fireside Chat but it has no force of law.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-18-2013, 02:00 PM

Yes, he sucks, he craps on the Constitution, I've never disagreed but he can declare anything a right in a Fireside Chat but it has no force of law. Really? His EXECUTIVE ORDERS have force of law and the bastard has been going around Congress usurping their Constitutional authority by doing so. He commits treason plain and simple. Too many Constitutional experts are admitting that he does. He does so with arrogance and contempt for we the people and our Constitution.-Tyr

aboutime

08-18-2013, 02:25 PM

Yes, he sucks, he craps on the Constitution, I've never disagreed but he can declare anything a right in a Fireside Chat but it has no force of law.

Someone might want to go over Obama's head, and tell him what you said fj. But...that's not happening. And, as long as Obama feels he has no need to obey his oath, or the constitution. He can just continue to destroy this nation UNLESS.....Enough of us are willing to OPEN OUR MOUTH and tell the rest of the LAZY, UNEDUCATED Nation the truth about him.

Calling it a Fireside chat doesn't matter when he, and Democrats in Congress think they RULE THE WORLD.

Gaffer

08-18-2013, 05:52 PM

Let's see, he used a fire side chat to announce his signing an EO to make health care a right. Usurping the Constitution and congress. And FJ says there's nothing wrong here. I see it as another in the long list of impeachable actions he has committed.

Care to expound on that FJ or are you just going to make one line jibs and laughing faces. The little snide back and forth gets old.

aboutime

08-18-2013, 06:40 PM

Here's what all of us should be asking Obama following his FireSide BSChat.

http://youtu.be/xBOMjZU-aCE

fj1200

08-18-2013, 08:57 PM

Let's see, he used a fire side chat to announce his signing an EO to make health care a right. Usurping the Constitution and congress. And FJ says there's nothing wrong here. I see it as another in the long list of impeachable actions he has committed.

Care to expound on that FJ or are you just going to make one line jibs and laughing faces. The little snide back and forth gets old.

I agree that it gets old but then no one here has been actually to add any meat to the subject so that's what they're left with; I can mention a name or three who snipe at me constantly with zero ability to discuss any issues. Nevertheless, there was no mention in the link of an EO, though I didn't watch the video because I try to avoid anything where BO opens his mouth, and even if there is he can't create any right by EO anyway.

I saw no mention of an EO in his chat, only this about rights:

So I’m going to keep doing everything in my power to make sure this law works as it’s supposed to. Because in the United States of America, health insurance isn’t a privilege – it is your right. And we’re going to keep it that way.

What else would you expect him to say in a campaign commercial err, address about ACA?

Really? His EXECUTIVE ORDERS have force of law and the bastard has been going around Congress usurping their Constitutional authority by doing so. He commits treason plain and simple. Too many Constitutional experts are admitting that he does. He does so with arrogance and contempt for we the people and our Constitution.-Tyr

Please link to where I state that he doesn't suck but are you aware of what an EO actually does? EOs generally give instructions to the Executive branch on how to carry out existing law.

fj1200

08-18-2013, 09:01 PM

Someone might want to go over Obama's head, and tell him what you said fj. But...that's not happening. And, as long as Obama feels he has no need to obey his oath, or the constitution. He can just continue to destroy this nation UNLESS.....Enough of us are willing to OPEN OUR MOUTH and tell the rest of the LAZY, UNEDUCATED Nation the truth about him.

Calling it a Fireside chat doesn't matter when he, and Democrats in Congress think they RULE THE WORLD.

Because he is surrounded by hacks, yes men, and people dedicated to the Big Government cause come hell or high water. He sucks but this ain't news.

Kathianne

08-19-2013, 12:04 AM

I think I've been quite consistent through the years of GW and Barack Obama, impeachment isn't the catch all so many think. Time and again, members post that so and so should be impeached! What is Congress doing? Well to a real degree, they are acting as they should, with restraint. "High crimes and misdemeanors" aren't spelled out in the Constitution. However, Presidents do take an oath to uphold the Constitution. When it becomes obvious that they are just ignoring the few clear sections of the Articles, questions should be raised by the press and the people. With Obamacare, Obama may have crossed the rubicon.

Ultimately it comes down to Congress, essentially the House deciding there are reasons to bring impeachment, then it's up to the Senate on whether or not to convict. Twice the House has chosen to bring articles of impeachment, twice they failed to rise to convictions.

The problem with Obama is he is ruling by fiat, it may well be impeachable if Congress were to determine it to be so, but the rub is that since the 2nd WW, Congress has time and again allowed presidents to usurp the Congressional powers, in order to be held blameless if things go so very wrong. Whether wars in Korea or Vietnam or Wars on Terror, Congress has said, "No declarations, we're behind you. Sort of."

Executive orders? No problem, though if things go south, look for us to point out that it's your fault. Unless of course you're of the same party, then we'll just keep our distance....

Related:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324769704579006594068764238.html

August 16, 2013, 7:08 p.m. ET

         Nicholas Quinn Rosenkranz: Obama Suspends the Law. What Would Lincoln Say?

The current president's hero tried to abide by the Constitution and enlist Congress's support.

By
NICHOLAS QUINN ROSENKRANZ

The Obama administration announced last month via blog post that the president was unilaterally suspending ObamaCare's employer mandate—notwithstanding the clear command of the law. President Obama's comments about it on Aug. 9—claiming that "the normal thing would prefer to do" is seek a "change to the law"—then added insult to constitutional injury. It also offers a sharp contrast with a different president who also suspended the law.

On April 27, 1861, President Lincoln unilaterally authorized his commanding general to suspend the writ of habeas corpus so that he could detain dangerous rebels in the early days of the Civil War. Lincoln's order was constitutionally questionable. The Constitution provides that "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

A rebellion was in progress, so suspension was permissible. But the Constitution doesn't specify who can suspend the writ in such circumstances. Since the Suspension Clause appears in Article I of the Constitution, which is predominantly about the powers of Congress, there is a strong argument that only Congress can suspend the habeas writ.

Lincoln's order was legally dubious, but what he did next showed remarkable constitutional rectitude. On July 4, 1861, he delivered a solemn message to Congress, in which he did everything possible to square his action with the Constitution. In this message, he set forth the best possible constitutional arguments that he had unilateral power to suspend the writ. These arguments may have been wrong, but they were serious, and they were presented seriously, in good faith.

...

Fourth, and most strikingly, Lincoln promptly looked to Congress to ratify his unilateral action. Congress agreed with Lincoln, and the president welcomed and signed new legislation. President Obama says only that he wishes he could follow the same course. Last week, he said he would like to "simply call up the Speaker" of the House to request a "change to the law" that would achieve his desired delay.

In fact, as the president knows, he doesn't even need to pick up the phone: On July 17, the House of Representatives passed the Authority for Mandate Delay Act (with 229 Republicans and 35 Democrats voting in favor). This would authorize President Obama's desired suspension of the law, just as Congress ratified Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus.

But unlike Lincoln, President Obama doesn't welcome this congressional ratification. He has called the House bill that fixes the constitutional problem he created "unnecessary," and he threatened to veto it. Why? Because the House also passed a companion bill that would delay the individual mandate too. For political reasons, the president doesn't want to be in the inconvenient position of signing one bill that would give companies a reprieve from ObamaCare, while vetoing another that would grant individuals the same delay. The Democratic-controlled Senate will quietly kill the House bill and save Mr. Obama the awkwardness of having to veto it.

Faced with military exigencies, Lincoln did everything possible to enlist Congress's support—and thus to follow the Constitution. Mr. Obama, faced with mere political and bureaucratic inconveniences, spurned Congress's support and flouted the Constitution.
Mr. Rosenkranz is a professor of law at Georgetown and a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute.

Another related article, though again the question becomes, 'Where is Congress?'

http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/charles-krauthammer-can-obama-write-his-own-laws/article_1628eb92-afdb-592d-a922-06ab57557ebd.html

[h=1]Charles Krauthammer: Can Obama write his own laws?
August 17, 2013 11:50 pm • BY CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER / Washington Post

(http://journalstar.com/search/?l=50&sd=desc&s=start_time&f=html&byline=BY%20CHARLES%20KRAUTHAMMER%20%2F%20Washingt on%20Post)

WASHINGTON -- As a reaction to the crack epidemic of the 1980s, many federal drug laws carry strict mandatory sentences. This has stirred unease in Congress and sparked a bipartisan effort to revise and relax some of the more draconian laws.

Traditionally -- meaning before President Barack Obama -- that's how laws were changed: We have a problem, we hold hearings, we find some new arrangement, ratified by Congress and signed by the president.

That was then. Now, Attorney General Eric Holder, a liberal in a hurry, ordered all U.S. attorneys to stop charging nonviolent, non-gang-related drug defendants with crimes that, while fitting the offense, carry mandatory sentences. Find some lesser, non-triggering charge. How might you do that? Withhold evidence -- e.g., about the amount of dope involved.

In other words, evade the law by deceiving the court if necessary. "If the companies that I represent in federal criminal cases" did that, said former Deputy Attorney General George Terwilliger, "they could be charged with a felony."

But such niceties must not stand in the way of an administration's agenda. Indeed, the very next day, it was revealed that the administration unilaterally had waived Obamacare's cap on a patient's annual out-of-pocket expenses -- a one-year exemption for selected health insurers that nowhere is permitted in the law. It simply was decreed by an obscure Labor Department regulation.

Which followed a presidentially directed 70-plus percent subsidy for the insurance premiums paid by congressmen and their personal staffs -- under a law that denies subsidies for anyone that well-off.

Which came just a month after the administration's equally lawless suspension of one of the cornerstones of Obamacare: the employer mandate.

Which followed hundreds of Obamacare waivers granted by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to selected businesses, unions and other well-lobbied, very special interests.

Nor is this kind of rule-by-decree restricted to health care.

In 2012, the immigration service was ordered to cease proceedings against young illegal immigrants brought here as children. Congress had refused to pass such a law (the DREAM Act) just 18 months earlier. Obama himself repeatedly had said the Constitution forbade him from enacting it without Congress. But with the fast approach of an election that could hinge on the Hispanic vote, Obama did exactly that. Unilaterally.

The point is not what you think about the merits of the DREAM Act. Or of mandatory drug sentences. Or of subsidizing health care premiums for $175,000-a-year members of Congress. Or even whether you think governors should be allowed to weaken the work requirements for welfare recipients -- an authority the administration granted last year in clear violation of section 407 of the landmark Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform of 1996.

The point is whether a president, charged with faithfully executing the laws that Congress enacts, may create, ignore, suspend and/or amend the law at will. Arguably, presidents are permitted to refuse to enforce laws they consider unconstitutional (the basis for so many of George W. Bush's so-called signing statements). But presidents are forbidden from doing so for reason of mere policy -- the reason for every Obama violation listed above.
Such gross executive usurpation disdains the Constitution. It mocks the separation of powers. And, most consequentially, it introduces a fatal instability into law itself. If the law is not what is plainly written -- but is whatever the president and his agents decide -- what's left of the law?

What's the point of the whole legislative process -- of crafting various provisions through give-and-take negotiation -- if you cannot rely on the fixity of the final product, on the assurance that the provisions bargained for by both sides will be carried out?

Consider immigration reform. The essence of any deal would be legalization in return for strict border enforcement. If some such legislative compromise is struck, what confidence can anyone have in it if the president can alter what he signs?

Yet this president is not only untroubled by what he's doing, but open and rather proud. As he tells cheering crowds on his never-ending campaign-style tours: I am going to do X -- and I'm not going to wait for Congress.
That's caudillo talk. That's banana republic stuff. In this country, the president is required to win the consent of Congress first.

At stake is not some constitutional curlicue. At stake is whether the laws are the law. And whether presidents get to write their own.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-19-2013, 07:02 AM

I think I've been quite consistent through the years of GW and Barack Obama, impeachment isn't the catch all so many think. Time and again, members post that so and so should be impeached! What is Congress doing? Well to a real degree, they are acting as they should, with restraint. "High crimes and misdemeanors" aren't spelled out in the Constitution. However, Presidents do take an oath to uphold the Constitution. When it becomes obvious that they are just ignoring the few clear sections of the Articles, questions should be raised by the press and the people. With Obamacare, Obama may have crossed the rubicon.

Ultimately it comes down to Congress, essentially the House deciding there are reasons to bring impeachment, then it's up to the Senate on whether or not to convict. Twice the House has chosen to bring articles of impeachment, twice they failed to rise to convictions.

The problem with Obama is he is ruling by fiat, it may well be impeachable if Congress were to determine it to be so, but the rub is that since the 2nd WW, Congress has time and again allowed presidents to usurp the Congressional powers, in order to be held blameless if things go so very wrong. Whether wars in Korea or Vietnam or Wars on Terror, Congress has said, "No declarations, we're behind you. Sort of."

Executive orders? No problem, though if things go south, look for us to point out that it's your fault. Unless of course you're of the same party, then we'll just keep our distance....

Related:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324769704579006594068764238.html

Another related article, though again the question becomes, 'Where is Congress?'

http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/charles-krauthammer-can-obama-write-his-own-laws/article_1628eb92-afdb-592d-a922-06ab57557ebd.html I've been consistent too. I called for Bush's head on a platter for his failure to secure our Southern border, his railroading those two border agents into prison and a few other goodies. I am not a BUSH BOT and never was. I have the ability to go retrieve my quotes proving my words against Bush from my old forum but Jim doesn't allow that is my understanding. If he oks it I gladly bring the quotes here for any that doubt my honesty on this matter. So my stand is not based upon partisan politics but rather reality and the truth. Obama has numerous transgressions that rise to level of reprimand or impeachment. Listed below are 25 of 166 that are cited. Surely one is enough as the Constitution does not list impeachment requiring more that one violation! The article was written April 4th 2012 since then Obama has done far greater transgressions. The list has grown greatly since then.. -Tyr

http://conservativepapers.com/news/2012/04/04/a-case-for-impeaching-obama/#.UhIHkNwo5Rs By PETER PATON
Resolved, That Barak Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

http://conservativepapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/obama1-300x182.jpg (http://conservativepapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/obama1.jpg)There is a growing groundswell within American Republican and Tea Party ranks that impeachment proceedings should be initiated against President Obama on a whole list of violations of the Constitution and the War Powers Act
Congressmen Allen West of Florida (R-Florida) and Darrell Issa (R- California) have consistently and loudly criticized the president for overstepping the political mark and bypassing Congress’s approval on a whole range of dubious policies and issues:and the recent Obama attack on the Supreme Court of Justice and the Russian ” Open Mic ” gaffe on National Security, leads to one question: Is Barack Obama making his own case for impeachment? Obama did not become the Democratic nominee for President without the help of several leaders of the Democratic Party who knew that he was not eligible for office
Listed below are the One Hundred and Sixty Six Articles of Impeachment.
1. Appointment of a “shadow government” of some 35+ individuals termed “czars” who are not confirmed by the Senate and respond only to the president, yet have overarching regulatory powers – a clear violation of the separation of powers concept. Obama bypassed the Senate with many of his appointments of over 35 “czars.”
2. No congressional support for Libyan action (violation of the War Powers Act ). Obama lied to the American people when he said that there were no US troops on the ground in Libya and then later said they were only “logistical troops.” Obama violated the War Powers Act of 1973 by conducting a war against Libya without Congressional authorization.
3. Betraying of allies ( Israel and Great Britain. Obama has placed the security of our most trusted ally in the Middle East, Israel, in danger while increasing funding to the Palestinian Authority (Fatah, just another Islamic terrorist group) whilst they have enjoined a reconciliation pact with long-standing terrorist group Hamas and the disclosure of British nuclear secrets to the Russians in the Start Treaty. Obama gave missile codes to British Trident missiles to Russia.
4. Backdoor implementation of the DREAM Act which would grant 22 million illegals amnesty. Obama passed the Dream Act through an executive order, bypassing Congress again. DREAM is: Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors
5. Telegraphing troop reductions to enemies – against the consult of his experienced field commanders – while embracing negotiations with our enemy, the Taliban, and recognizing another, the Muslim Brotherhood.
6. Betrayal of Arizona. Obama brought a federal lawsuit against a sovereign state, Arizona, seeking to protect its citizens from this threat of mass illegal immigration
7. Obama’s Failure to enforce U.S. law, the Defense of Marriage Act. He’s stripped America of its moral base by his support for homosexuality and the attack on marriage between a man and a women Obama allows the DOJ to refuse to enforce the Defense of Marriage Act.
8. Support of an inept and incompetent attorney general who has failed to prosecute voter intimidation cases (New Black Panther Party), initiated a dangerous gun-smuggling program (Operation Fast and Furious) – which resulted in deaths to one of our own law enforcement agents. Obama allowed Operation Fast and Furious to occur, which allowed hundreds of Mexican nationals and Border Agent Brian Terry to be murdered with illegal arms given out by the ATF and DOJ.
9. Increasing the regulatory burden on American business through bypassing the legislative process with his executive branch agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration.
10. Failure to take the steps necessary to secure our borders and stem the flow of illegal immigration, termed as “repel invasions” in our United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 8 and Article 4, Section 4. Obama has failed to defend US soil in Arizona as Mexican troops bring illegals and drugs into the USA, crossing the border doing so. This is a direct violation of Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution.
11. Inappropriately commanding the release of strategic oil reserves and providing Brazil $2 billion for its offshore oil exploration.
12. Illegally soliciting funds from within the White House ($5 dinner video fundraiser). The unalienable rights endowed to us by the Creator; life, liberty, and the pursuit (not guarantee) of happiness – are being threatened by the Obama administration. This current government has abridged the consent of the governed and that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends. It is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it.
13.Taking on the Supreme Court’s power of judicial review (http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/04/02/obama-slams-activist-supreme-court-calls-them-unelected-group-people) with a preemptive striking against justices who might contemplate an unfavorable ruling on ObamaCare.
14.”Open Mic ” gaffe in which he explained Russian President Dimitri Medvedev that he’d have more “flexibility” to sacrifice American security after his re-election
15. Occidental College Transcripts Reveals Obama Claimed Foreign Citizenship to Get Scholarship? http://tinyurl.com/czldzx8 (http://t.co/p5LiRZki)
16. Obama’s secret back channel Nuclear deal with Iran (http://gulagbound.com/18956/muslim-brotherhood-in-our-white-house-%E2%80%93-vetting-obama/), a sworn enemy of America and our Allies
17. Obama’s holding direct talks with our avowed enemy the Taliban (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22957819http://)
18. Barack Hussein (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWGlBC3erjg&feature=youtu.beThanks …) Obama’s Ineligibility to be POTUS because he was born in Kenya (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/drudge-headline-shocker-obama-born-in-kenya-and-raised-in-indonesia-and-hawaii/)
19. Obama and his Administration leaking previously classified information about our intelligence communities’ efforts to slow down Iran’s march to nuclear weaponry.
20. Obama destabilized Western Ally Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, and allowed the Militant and Anti West Muslim Brotherhood (http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-commits-treason-with-the-muslim-brotherhood/)to take over the Egyptian Regime, posing a mortal threat to our Ally Israel and our own Western assets and interests in the region. Obama instigated a revolution in Egypt against an ally in the War on Terror.
21. Obama has appointed Muslim Brotherhood advisers, enemies of the State (http://gulagbound.com/18956/muslim-brotherhood-in-our-white-house-%E2%80%93-vetting-obama/), to the White House. Aid and comfort to the Muslim Brotherhood is TREASON per Article 3 Sec III of the US Constitution.. http://tinyurl.com/3x88l2s (http://t.co/vNpplPum)
22. Obama bypassing Congress again by Executive Decree to allow Illegal Immigrants to remain and vote in America for partisan electoral purposes and reasons.
23. Obama selling citizenship to criminals in direct opposition to Federal Law.
24. Obama admin assisted Egypt in remilitarizing the Sinai, “something forbidden by the Camp David Accords” http://is.gd/nDwdbl (http://t.co/MDxPo1O8)
25. Obama has attempted to compel religious institutions to pay for abortion services — a clear violation of First Amendment rights---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is another much more recent article listing 100 reasons why Obama should be impeached . http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/one-hundred-articles-of-impeachment-against-obama-2642520.html --Tyr

fj1200

08-19-2013, 08:09 AM

http://conservativepapers.com/news/2012/04/04/a-case-for-impeaching-obama/#.UhIHkNwo5Rs By PETER PATON
Resolved, That Barak Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

That would be a more impressive listing if it would dispense with the obvious crap.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-19-2013, 05:59 PM

That would be a more impressive listing if it would dispense with the obvious crap.
How many of them are obvious crap? I saw a few that do not measure up but plenty that do. -Tyr

fj1200

08-19-2013, 08:25 PM

How many of them are obvious crap? I saw a few that do not measure up but plenty that do. -Tyr

Not quite sure how to denote the crap ones. How about I bold them.

Resolved, That Barak Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

1. Appointment of a “shadow government” of some 35+ individuals termed “czars” who are not confirmed by the Senate and respond only to the president, yet have overarching regulatory powers – a clear violation of the separation of powers concept. Obama bypassed the Senate with many of his appointments of over 35 “czars.”
2. No congressional support for Libyan action (violation of the War Powers Act ). Obama lied to the American people when he said that there were no US troops on the ground in Libya and then later said they were only “logistical troops.” Obama violated the War Powers Act of 1973 by conducting a war against Libya without Congressional authorization.
3. Betraying of allies ( Israel and Great Britain. Obama has placed the security of our most trusted ally in the Middle East, Israel, in danger while increasing funding to the Palestinian Authority (Fatah, just another Islamic terrorist group) whilst they have enjoined a reconciliation pact with long-standing terrorist group Hamas and the disclosure of British nuclear secrets to the Russians in the Start Treaty. Obama gave missile codes to British Trident missiles to Russia.
4. Backdoor implementation of the DREAM Act which would grant 22 million illegals amnesty. Obama passed the Dream Act through an executive order, bypassing Congress again. DREAM is: Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors
5. Telegraphing troop reductions to enemies – against the consult of his experienced field commanders – while embracing negotiations with our enemy, the Taliban, and recognizing another, the Muslim Brotherhood.
6. Betrayal of Arizona. Obama brought a federal lawsuit against a sovereign state, Arizona, seeking to protect its citizens from this threat of mass illegal immigration
7. Obama’s Failure to enforce U.S. law, the Defense of Marriage Act. He’s stripped America of its moral base by his support for homosexuality and the attack on marriage between a man and a women Obama allows the DOJ to refuse to enforce the Defense of Marriage Act.
8. Support of an inept and incompetent attorney general who has failed to prosecute voter intimidation cases (New Black Panther Party), initiated a dangerous gun-smuggling program (Operation Fast and Furious) – which resulted in deaths to one of our own law enforcement agents. Obama allowed Operation Fast and Furious to occur, which allowed hundreds of Mexican nationals and Border Agent Brian Terry to be murdered with illegal arms given out by the ATF and DOJ.
9. Increasing the regulatory burden on American business through bypassing the legislative process with his executive branch agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration.
10. Failure to take the steps necessary to secure our borders and stem the flow of illegal immigration, termed as “repel invasions” in our United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 8 and Article 4, Section 4. Obama has failed to defend US soil in Arizona as Mexican troops bring illegals and drugs into the USA, crossing the border doing so. This is a direct violation of Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution.
11. Inappropriately commanding the release of strategic oil reserves and providing Brazil $2 billion for its offshore oil exploration.
12. Illegally soliciting funds from within the White House ($5 dinner video fundraiser). The unalienable rights endowed to us by the Creator; life, liberty, and the pursuit (not guarantee) of happiness – are being threatened by the Obama administration. This current government has abridged the consent of the governed and that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends. It is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it.
13.Taking on the Supreme Court’s power of judicial review (http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/04/02/obama-slams-activist-supreme-court-calls-them-unelected-group-people) with a preemptive striking against justices who might contemplate an unfavorable ruling on ObamaCare.
14.”Open Mic ” gaffe in which he explained Russian President Dimitri Medvedev that he’d have more “flexibility” to sacrifice American security after his re-election
15. Occidental College Transcripts Reveals Obama Claimed Foreign Citizenship to Get Scholarship? http://tinyurl.com/czldzx8 (http://t.co/p5LiRZki)
16. Obama’s secret back channel Nuclear deal with Iran (http://gulagbound.com/18956/muslim-brotherhood-in-our-white-house-%E2%80%93-vetting-obama/), a sworn enemy of America and our Allies
17. Obama’s holding direct talks with our avowed enemy the Taliban (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22957819http://)
18. Barack Hussein (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWGlBC3erjg&feature=youtu.beThanks …) Obama’s Ineligibility to be POTUS because he was born in Kenya (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/drudge-headline-shocker-obama-born-in-kenya-and-raised-in-indonesia-and-hawaii/)
19. Obama and his Administration leaking previously classified information about our intelligence communities’ efforts to slow down Iran’s march to nuclear weaponry.
20. Obama destabilized Western Ally Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, and allowed the Militant and Anti West Muslim Brotherhood (http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-commits-treason-with-the-muslim-brotherhood/)to take over the Egyptian Regime, posing a mortal threat to our Ally Israel and our own Western assets and interests in the region. Obama instigated a revolution in Egypt against an ally in the War on Terror.
21. Obama has appointed Muslim Brotherhood advisers, enemies of the State (http://gulagbound.com/18956/muslim-brotherhood-in-our-white-house-%E2%80%93-vetting-obama/), to the White House. Aid and comfort to the Muslim Brotherhood is TREASON per Article 3 Sec III of the US Constitution.. http://tinyurl.com/3x88l2s (http://t.co/vNpplPum)
22. Obama bypassing Congress again by Executive Decree to allow Illegal Immigrants to remain and vote in America for partisan electoral purposes and reasons.
23. Obama selling citizenship to criminals in direct opposition to Federal Law.
24. Obama admin assisted Egypt in remilitarizing the Sinai, “something forbidden by the Camp David Accords” http://is.gd/nDwdbl (http://t.co/MDxPo1O8)
25. Obama has attempted to compel religious institutions to pay for abortion services — a clear violation of First Amendment rights

Kathianne

08-19-2013, 08:52 PM

FJ's bolded are pretty good at knocking off the most frivolous. Here's the deal and the point I was trying to make regarding impeachment, it is only what Congress is convinced is important enough to even bring up.

Look at the two cases where it's happened, Johnson and Clinton. On the first, the radical Republicans, the majority in both houses, were appalled at his attempt to end most of Reconstruction. They impeached basically on going beyond constitutional authority, though it wasn't justifiable.

When it came to the trial though, second thoughts were given. What would it mean going down the road? How easy should it be to impeach the president? They settled for a near hit and moved on. Johnson stopped his one man show and kept quiet to the end of his term.

Clinton? That he obstructed justice and lied to the American people was pretty much proven 24/7 for months. Charges brought. Trial? They had to consider, 'Ok, the guy lied and totally tried to cover up.' Well, duh! That's what cheaters do. Many of those charged with deciding, knew it well. If not for Matt Drudge, he probably would have escaped any punishment at all. As it was, he was acquitted of the charges, but still lost his law license for 5 years and was censured by the Senate.

Once again, the deciding factor wasn't really whether or not he lied or obstructed, it was 'harm done' to the country, by those charged with deciding. Not a court of law.

Got to keep both the Constitution and the Congress in mind when looking at impeachment. Motivation of the president or person facing impeachment are also critical. It's not necessarily the legalities, if so, Clinton would have been convicted.

It's the mix of things that make bringing impeachment charges near 0. Unless Congress wants to take back powers they gave up, I don't see that happening with Obama.

Missileman

08-20-2013, 06:59 PM

Changing Constitution by executive order?

Obama declares health insurance a 'right'

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/obama-declares-health-insurance-a-right/

Let's assume for a second that what he's saying is true, that healthcare is a right. That in no way equals a government responsibility to provide it, it only means the government can't deny you the right without due process. If they intend to assume the position of government being required to deliver healthcare because it's a right, I'll take my government issued AR-15 immediately so I can exercise my right to bear arms.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-20-2013, 08:03 PM

Let's assume for a second that what he's saying is true, that healthcare is a right. That in no way equals a government responsibility to provide it, it only means the government can't deny you the right without due process. If they intend to assume the position of government being required to deliver healthcare because it's a right, I'll take my government issued AR-15 immediately so I can exercise my right to bear arms. Bullshat, I have two arms so the government owes me two AR-15's... I'll buy my own ammo..;) Logic demands a spare in case the first one malfunctions. -Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-20-2013, 09:07 PM

FJ's bolded are pretty good at knocking off the most frivolous. Here's the deal and the point I was trying to make regarding impeachment, it is only what Congress is convinced is important enough to even bring up.

Look at the two cases where it's happened, Johnson and Clinton. On the first, the radical Republicans, the majority in both houses, were appalled at his attempt to end most of Reconstruction. They impeached basically on going beyond constitutional authority, though it wasn't justifiable.

When it came to the trial though, second thoughts were given. What would it mean going down the road? How easy should it be to impeach the president? They settled for a near hit and moved on. Johnson stopped his one man show and kept quiet to the end of his term.

Clinton? That he obstructed justice and lied to the American people was pretty much proven 24/7 for months. Charges brought. Trial? They had to consider, 'Ok, the guy lied and totally tried to cover up.' Well, duh! That's what cheaters do. Many of those charged with deciding, knew it well. If not for Matt Drudge, he probably would have escaped any punishment at all. As it was, he was acquitted of the charges, but still lost his law license for 5 years and was censured by the Senate.

Once again, the deciding factor wasn't really whether or not he lied or obstructed, it was 'harm done' to the country, by those charged with deciding. Not a court of law.

Got to keep both the Constitution and the Congress in mind when looking at impeachment. Motivation of the president or person facing impeachment are also critical. It's not necessarily the legalities, if so, Clinton would have been convicted.

It's the mix of things that make bringing impeachment charges near 0. Unless Congress wants to take back powers they gave up, I don't see that happening with Obama. With great respect I have to disagree .--------------------The fact that we can reason why it will not happen does not negate the fact that he is guilty and it should happen IMHO. SEE MY THREAD IN CONSTITUTION FORUM , title is -- About Impeachment. We have just been accustomed to such corruption being a common thing. To power grabbing being a duty of every President. Obama 's power grabbing rises so very far above his just seeking power for the office he holds. Its done to gain that power to force his agenda down our collective throats. Remember his bold declaration is actually treason. When he boldly states that "if Congress will not act I will". You see he is talking about Congress acting upon what he sees as Congress's job/duty and as Congress's job /duty he is forbidden by law to do it himself. Yet his declaration says, to hell with that I will do it and nobody can stop me! Which is expressly forbidden by his oath of office and the Separation of Powers set forth in the Constitution. Lists go up to as high as 262 transgressions but all that is needed is one. His end runs around Congress provide more than one ,not to mention include two of his scandals. See the thread in the Constitution forum.--Tyr

Kathianne

08-20-2013, 09:51 PM

With great respect I have to disagree .--------------------The fact that we can reason why it will not happen does not negate the fact that he is guilty and it should happen IMHO. SEE MY THREAD IN CONSTITUTION FORUM , title is -- About Impeachment. We have just been accustomed to such corruption being a common thing. To power grabbing being a duty of every President. Obama 's power grabbing rises so very far above his just seeking power for the office he holds. Its done to gain that power to force his agenda down our collective throats. Remember his bold declaration is actually treason. When he boldly states that "if Congress will not act I will". You see he is talking about Congress acting upon what he sees as Congress's job/duty and as Congress's job /duty he is forbidden by law to do it himself. Yet his declaration says, to hell with that I will do it and nobody can stop me! Which is expressly forbidden by his oath of office and the Separation of Powers set forth in the Constitution. Lists go up to as high as 262 transgressions but all that is needed is one. His end runs around Congress provide more than one ,not to mention include two of his scandals. See the thread in the Constitution forum.--Tyr

while I feel your passion, it doesn't negate what I wrote. You do want to abide by the Constitution, right? Then it's up to the House, then the Senate.

Do you see movement in either towards your goals here?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

08-20-2013, 11:13 PM

while I feel your passion, it doesn't negate what I wrote. You do want to abide by the Constitution, right? Then it's up to the House, then the Senate.

Do you see movement in either towards your goals here? No, not really but there is always hope. I believe that. There is always hope until you die and then matters of this world are of no importance. I hope for justice to prevail and if justice is that Obama faces no punishment so be it. My second ex-wife once tried to tell me that I didn't see her kissing another guy on the dance floor one time when I was supposed to be home asleep but was instead at the BBQ FESTIVAL LOOKING FOR HER AND OUR DAUGHTER. SHE SAT THERE AND DENIED IT KNOWING I HAD SHOWN UP THERE AND ACTUALLY SAW IT ! The American people are currently in that same state of denial. No matter how much truth comes out , how much reality shows his actions are deliberately harmful they continue to deny. Knowing a truth that so many refuse to accept is a deeply troubling thing. It is also as irritating a thing as a man can ever face IMHO? -Tyr