Morsi supporters torch three churches in Egypt, reports say

[Voted4Reagan]

Supporters of deposed Islamist president Mohamed Morsi torched three churches in central Egypt on Wednesday in reprisal attacks as police dispersed demonstrations in Cairo, reports said.



The assailants threw firebombs at Mar Gergiss church in Sohag, a city with a large community of Coptic Christians who comprise up to 10 percent of Egypt's 84 million people, causing it to burn down, the official MENA news agency said.


https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/mena/morsi-supporters-torch-three-churches-in-egypt-reports-say

[jafar00]

This is nuts. Also, it is a violation of Islamic law to attack a Church but don't let that get in the way of the inevitable Muslim bashing that will follow on this thread.

If Allah were not to repel some through others, monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques wherein the name of Allah is much mentioned, would certainly have been pulled down. (22:40)

[Voted4Reagan]

This is nuts. Also, it is a violation of Islamic law to attack a Church but don't let that get in the way of the inevitable Muslim bashing that will follow on this thread.

If Allah were not to repel some through others, monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques wherein the name of Allah is much mentioned, would certainly have been pulled down. (22:40)

Why in even secular societies do These acts occur Jafar?

Why do Coptic Christians not burn down Mosques and Madrasas?

Why do Members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Hezbollah always use violence and never rely on peace?

Christians will continue to turn the other cheek... We refuse to resort to the tactics of terror...even in self defense.

Do you condemn the Muslim Brotherhood now Jafar? Should a group that condones burning churches be supported?

Mursi was just the leader of a bunch of terrorists.

[jafar00]

Why in even secular societies do These acts occur Jafar?

Why do Coptic Christians not burn down Mosques and Madrasas?

Why do Members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Hezbollah always use violence and never rely on peace?

Christians will continue to turn the other cheek... We refuse to resort to the tactics of terror...even in self defense.

Do you condemn the Muslim Brotherhood now Jafar? Should a group that condones burning churches be supported?

Mursi was just the leader of a bunch of terrorists.

Mosques are being burned too

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRqxC3JCQAAP37m.jpg

And Madrassa's are being burned. Cairo University has also been burned.

[Voted4Reagan]

Mosques are being burned too

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRqxC3JCQAAP37m.jpg

And Madrassa's are being burned. Cairo University has also been burned.

by Muslims....you left that out... intentionally.

[jimnyc]

by Muslims animals....you left that out... intentionally.

Fixed for you

[Marcus Aurelius]

Mosques are being burned too

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRqxC3JCQAAP37m.jpg

And Madrassa's are being burned. Cairo University has also been burned.

Funny... i can't seem to find anything online stating that Cairo University was burned by Coptic Christians. Perhaps you could provide a link?

[jafar00]

It's a near civil war. Everything is getting burned.

[Drummond]

It's a near civil war. Everything is getting burned.

... Er'm, but ... Islam is 'a religion of peace' .. !!!!

So, Jafar, are you saying that Egypt is suddenly full of NON-Muslims (.. which would include all the Muslim Brotherhood's supporters) ??

Just as terrorists, too, are NON-Muslims ??

I find myself wondering: is there any such thing, in JafarWorld, as a MUSLIM Muslim ?

[Kathianne]

It's a near civil war. Everything is getting burned.

But NOT between Christians and Muslims. Again, you left that out.

[Voted4Reagan]

It's a near civil war. Everything is getting burned.

by MUSLIMS... Not Christians

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/payn_c11151020130816120100.jpg

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb0816cd20130815074710.jpg

[jafar00]

by MUSLIMS... Not Christians

Or is it by secularists from the old regime? Why not? They did it before. They bombed a Church in Alexandria before the revolution that removed Mubarak.

One thing you should be aware of in Egypt. Nothing is as it seems on the surface.

[jafar00]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/payn_c11151020130816120100.jpg

That cartoon is wrong. It should show Sisi in a tank running the baby democracy over.

[Voted4Reagan]

Or is it by secularists from the old regime? Why not? They did it before. They bombed a Church in Alexandria before the revolution that removed Mubarak.

One thing you should be aware of in Egypt. Nothing is as it seems on the surface.

You may live in Australia, but you're still in DENIAL

[jimnyc]

As the violence continues in Egypt, I saw a picture that is a glimpse into what would solve all of Islam's problems - get rid of this and stop letting people use it to kill!

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7151/xzm6.jpg

[Voted4Reagan]

As the violence continues in Egypt, I saw a picture that is a glimpse into what would solve all of Islam's problems - get rid of this and stop letting people use it to kill!

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7151/xzm6.jpg



As of this morning 40 Coptic/Christian churches have burned in the last 48 hours.

It's on Fox/CNN and other outlets all morning

[jimnyc]

As of this morning 40 Coptic/Christian churches have burned in the last 48 hours.

It's on Fox/CNN and other outlets all morning

But, but, but, other places are burning too! And it's a civil war, so none of that matters. Let's ignore the fact that it's all muslims and their blind rage doing all the destruction, as usual.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

As the violence continues in Egypt, I saw a picture that is a glimpse into what would solve all of Islam's problems - get rid of this and stop letting people use it to kill!

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7151/xzm6.jpg
Now you have gone and done it. Making such a suggestion will get you called a genocide supporter and racist , bigot lowlife etc. I merely suggested laws to prevent muslims here in America from subverting our culture and politics(I Take My Stand thread) and was castigated and ridiculed . Islam is as much a militant political movement as it is a religion. That is why it should not be given the full protection that a religion is insured to have here. How to do that without spoiling the soup is a very complex problem but our survival depends on it being done just as sure as water is wet IMHO. THEY WILL NOT HAVE A REFORMATION ON THEIR OWN, IT'S BEEN 1400 YEARS WITH NO REFORMATION! WE AS A NATION , AS A PEOPLE SHOULD FORCE IT . WHY THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE ! They would go into total war mode immediately and they use that fear against us to defeat us. We will only react properly ONLY when it is too late. We have been propagandized and conditioned to do exactly that.--Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

But, but, but, other places are burning too! And it's a civil war, so none of that matters. Let's ignore the fact that it's all muslims and their blind rage doing all the destruction, as usual.

It's ethnic cleansing plain and simple. Destroy the Churches, scare the people, make them flee to a christian friendly country.


Muslims continue to practice the lessons they were taught by the Nazi's.

This is the "Kristallnact" for Coptic Christians in Egypt.

I hope Muslims are proud of this....they certainly arent speaking out against it.

(Below.... The Berlin Synagogue after Kristallnacht in 1938)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/1938_Interior_of_Berlin_synagogue_after_Kristallna cht.jpg

[jimnyc]

Now you have gone and done it. Making such a suggestion will get you called a genocide supporter and racist , bigot lowlife etc.

meh, so be it, I couldn't care less. I speak the facts and what is right. How do you get rid of a cockroach or other insect infestation that is ruining an area? You break out the pesticides and hit the nest.

[Voted4Reagan]

Main article: History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939-1954) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt_%281939-1954%29)
Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoires from that period, confirm.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#cite_no te-6)

Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf) and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion) widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#cite_no te-7)



In November 1948 police seized an automobile containing the documents and plans of what is thought to be the Brotherhood's `secret apparatus` with names of its members. The seizure was preceded by an assortment of bombings and assassination attempts by the apparatus. Subsequently 32 of its leaders were arrested and its offices raided.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#cite_no te-8) The next month the Egyptian Prime Minister, Mahmud Fahmi Nokrashi, ordered the dissolution of the Brotherhood.


On December 28, 1948 Egypt's prime minister was assassinated by Brotherhood member and veterinary student Abdel Meguid Ahmed Hassan, in what is thought to have been retaliation for the government crackdown. A month and half later Al-Banna himself was killed in Cairo by men believed to be government agents and/or supporters of the murdered premier. Al-Banna was succeeded as head of the Brotherhood by Hassan Isma'il al-Hudaybi, a former judge.


In 1952, members of the Muslim Brotherhood are accused of taking part in arson that destroyed some "750 buildings" in downtown Cairo — mainly night clubs, theatres, hotels, and restaurants frequented by British and other foreigners — "that marked the end of the liberal, progressive, cosmopolitan" Egypt.[9]

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#cite_no te-RebellionWright-9)

The Brotherhood supported the military coup that overthrew the monarchy in 1952, but the junta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship) was unwilling to share power or lift martial law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law) and clashed with the Brotherhood.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

[jafar00]

Godwin's Law. It was about time that showed up.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It's a near civil war. Everything is getting burned.

Still waiting for that link showing Cairo university being burned down by Coptic Christians.

[Marcus Aurelius]

As the violence continues in Egypt, I saw a picture that is a glimpse into what would solve all of Islam's problems - get rid of this and stop letting people use it to kill!

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7151/xzm6.jpg

This would solve their problems as well...




http://www.dnatube.com/video/5473/Atomic-Bomb-Explosion

[Voted4Reagan]

Still waiting for that link showing Cairo university being burned down by Coptic Christians.

Dont hold your breath... Apologists seldom back up their claims.

[Drummond]

Or is it by secularists from the old regime? Why not? They did it before. They bombed a Church in Alexandria before the revolution that removed Mubarak.

One thing you should be aware of in Egypt. Nothing is as it seems on the surface.

Hah .. nothing ever is, Jafar .....

Hamas aren't fully Muslim. They say they are. In JafarWorld, they're not (though 'despite' their terrorism, STILL 'worthy' of support).

Al Qaeda, the Taliban, any and all terrorist groups terrorising in the name of Islam ... 'aren't Muslim'. But they say they are.

Preachers, Imams, Clerics .. ALL representing Islam, such as Bakri, Hamza, Anjem Choudary ... 'aren't Muslim' They say they are. You say different.

I suppose, in JafarWorld, the Muslim Brotherhood isn't Muslim, either ?? They say they are. In keeping with your desire to divorce yourself from great swathes of other self-professed Muslims, do you feel inspired to disown them, because so many Egyptians can't stand the sight of them ?

[fj1200]

Still waiting for that link showing Cairo university being burned down by Coptic Christians.


Dont hold your breath... Apologists seldom back up their claims.

Don't mind that he didn't make that claim.

[jimnyc]

Don't mind that he didn't make that claim.

Maybe he was pointing out all of the other places that were burned by the out of control muslims? At least what he pointed out is what some of us have been saying then, that the muslims are full of rage today and being destructive and murderous, while the Christians in the area are mostly peaceful, or being attacked. Comparing the 2 in today's world is like comparing black and white.

[Larrymc]

Supporters of deposed Islamist president Mohamed Morsi torched three churches in central Egypt on Wednesday in reprisal attacks as police dispersed demonstrations in Cairo, reports said.



The assailants threw firebombs at Mar Gergiss church in Sohag, a city with a large community of Coptic Christians who comprise up to 10 percent of Egypt's 84 million people, causing it to burn down, the official MENA news agency said.


https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/mena/morsi-supporters-torch-three-churches-in-egypt-reports-sayWhen you get your but handed to you by the Military what are terrorist to do, "Attack Christians"

[Gaffer]

Following the muslim day of rage there were over 50 dead and many more wounded. And they intend to continue, under the guise of protest, for a week. The eygptian govt and military are considering declaring the brotherhood a terrorist organization. Well DUH. That's what they were until about ten years ago. And what they have always been since their inception. Even most of the egyptian population wants the brotherhood out. If they want democracy they need to outlaw the brotherhood completely.

[Kathianne]

Following the muslim day of rage there were over 50 dead and many more wounded. And they intend to continue, under the guise of protest, for a week. The eygptian govt and military are considering declaring the brotherhood a terrorist organization. Well DUH. That's what they were until about ten years ago. And what they have always been since their inception. Even most of the egyptian population wants the brotherhood out. If they want democracy they need to outlaw the brotherhood completely.

Well said. I don't know how many were reading on ME and WOT seriously 10-12 years ago, but if you did, you read "Spengler." Often thought he was CIA or pretty high up at State. He joined PJ Media a couple years ago and gave his name. I've left link to his bio. Related:

http://pjmedia.com/spengler/


Bio (http://pjmedia.com/spengler/bio)

by David P. Goldman
America’s Problems in the Middle East Are Just Beginning (http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2013/08/15/americas-problems-in-the-middle-east-are-just-beginning/) August 15th, 2013 - 7:45 am

It’s 2015, and there is a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas), financed by Iran, wins an election on a platform demanding the expulsion of the Jews from Israel. Iran, meanwhile, smuggles shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to terrorist cells in Palestine that can take down civilian airlines at Ben-Gurion Airport. With backing from the Egyptian military, Fatah throws out the elected Hamas government and kills a large number of Hamas supporters. What will Washington do? Given the track record of both the Obama administration and the Republican mainstream, one would expect America to denounce the use of violence against a democratically elected government.


Such is the absurdity of both parties’ stance towards Egypt: the Egyptian military is doing America’s dirty work, suppressing a virulently anti-modern, anti-Semitic and anti-Western Islamist movement whose leader, Mohammed Morsi, famously referred to Israelis as “apes and pigs.” It did so with the enthusiastic support of tens of millions of Egyptians who rallied in the streets in support of the military. And the American mainstream reacted with an ideological knee jerk. America’s presence in the Middle East has imploded.

...




America forgets that it corrected the flaw in its founding by killing 30 percent of Southern men of military age during its own Civil War, so many that the Confederate Army collapsed for lack of manpower. There are numerous wars which do not end until all the young men who want to fight to the death have had the opportunity to do so. And of all of history’s conflicts, none was so likely to end with this sort of demographic attrition as the present war in the Middle East. Compared to the young Arabs, Persians and Pakistanis of today, American Southerners of 1861 were models of middle-class rectitude, with the world’s highest living standards and bright prospects for the future. The Europeans of 1914 stood at the cusp of modernity; one only can imagine what they might have accomplished had they not committed mutual suicide in two World Wars.


Today’s Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims have grim future prospects. The world economy has left them behind, and they cannot catch up. Egypt was at the threshold of starvation and economic collapse when the military intervened, bringing in subsidies from the Gulf monarchies. The young men of the Middle East have less to lose, perhaps, than any generation in any country in modern times. As we observe in Syria, large numbers of them will fight to the death.


America cannot bear to think about its own Civil War because the wounds are too painful; in order to reunite the country after 1865, we concocted a myth of tragic fratricide. Wilsonian idealism was born of the South’s attempt to suppress its guilt for the war, I have argued in the past (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IA17Ak07.html). That is an academic consideration now. America’s credibility in the Middle East, thanks to the delusions of both parties, is broken, and it cannot be repaired within the time frame required to forestall the next stage of violence. Egypt’s military and its Saudi backers are aghast at American stupidity. Israel is frustrated by America’s inability to understand that Egypt’s military is committed to upholding the peace treaty with Israel while the Muslim Brotherhood wants war. Both Israel and the Gulf States observe the utter fecklessness of Washington’s efforts to contain Iran’s nuclear weapons program.


The events of the past week have demonstrated that America’s allies in the Middle East from Israel to the Persian Gulf can trust no one in Washington — neither Barack Obama nor John McCain. Those of us in America who try to analyze events in the region will be the last to hear the news, and the value of our work will diminish over time.

<!-- PJM_728_by_90_text --> <script type="text/javascript"> googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1347323895031-7'); }); </script>


<!-- PJM_300_by_250_middle --> <script type="text/javascript"> googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1347323895031-4'); });</script>

[Marcus Aurelius]

Don't mind that he didn't make that claim.


Mosques are being burned too

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRqxC3JCQAAP37m.jpg

And Madrassa's are being burned. Cairo University has also been burned.

I seriously doubt he was implying here that Muslims were doing the burning. That would make them 'not really Muslim' by his own logic. He was obviously implying non-Muslims, such as the Coptic Christians who make up almost 20% of Egypt's population, were at fault, in an effort to excuse the Muslim burning of Coptic Christian churches.

In any case, I'm sure if I misunderstood Jahil's post, he'd be happy to correct me.........

[Kathianne]

Just to update where we are today:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/08/2013816102257435227.html



<tbody>
Egypt's Christians face unprecedented attacks






<!---->



More than 30 churches have been destroyed in the past week, activists say, as thugs launch a campaign of intimidation. <!-- -->
Hazel Haddon (http://www.aljazeera.com/profile/hazel-haddon-.html) Last Modified: 16 Aug 2013 12:51



</tbody>

Cairo, Egypt - At Abu Seifein church in the wealthy Cairo district of Mohandeseen, there was little sign of any damage on Thursday, despite the rubble lying in the streets nearby. The church is a short walk away from Al-Gamat Al-Dowal Street, the site of heavy clashes the day before, but despite the violence, the church escaped unscathed.


Many churches in Egypt were not so lucky. Security forces moved to violently disperse two protest camps by supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi in Cairo on Wednesday morning, setting in motion a day of deadly violence that left at least 525 people dead in clashes across the country.

Amid the violence, alleged Morsi supporters carried out on dozens of attacks on churches and Christian-owned properties throughout the country.


Mina Thabet, an activist with Christian rights group the Maspero Youth Union, told Al Jazeera on Friday that at least 32 churches had been “completely destroyed, burned or looted” in eight different governorates over the previous two days. The group also recorded dozens of other attacks on Christian-owned shops, businesses and schools around the country.


The Anglican church of St Saviour’s in the city of Suez was one of those attacked on Wednesday. “They attacked the church with Molotov cocktails and stones, and the car of the priest was completely destroyed,” said Egypt’s Anglican Bishop, Mouneer Annis. “Two other churches in Suez were completely burned - and the thugs looted the churches afterwards. It’s a mixture between burning and looting.”


“It never happened before in history that such a big number of churches were attacked on one day,” Bishop Thomas, a Coptic Orthodox bishop in Assiut told Al Jazeera. “We normally used to have attacks once a month or so.”

...

[fj1200]

Maybe he was pointing out all of the other places that were burned by the out of control muslims? At least what he pointed out is what some of us have been saying then, that the muslims are full of rage today and being destructive and murderous, while the Christians in the area are mostly peaceful, or being attacked. Comparing the 2 in today's world is like comparing black and white.

He pointed out that more than churches were being burned.


I seriously doubt he was implying here that Muslims were doing the burning. That would make them 'not really Muslim' by his own logic. He was obviously implying non-Muslims, such as the Coptic Christians who make up almost 20% of Egypt's population, were at fault, in an effort to excuse the Muslim burning of Coptic Christian churches.

In any case, I'm sure if I misunderstood Jahil's post, he'd be happy to correct me.........

Your inference is your own.

In any case, would it do any good?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658558#post658558)
I seriously doubt he was implying here that Muslims were doing the burning. That would make them 'not really Muslim' by his own logic. He was obviously implying non-Muslims, such as the Coptic Christians who make up almost 20% of Egypt's population, were at fault, in an effort to excuse the Muslim burning of Coptic Christian churches.

In any case, I'm sure if I misunderstood Jahil's post, he'd be happy to correct me.........



Your inference is your own.

In any case, would it do any good?

Just curious, but has Jahil appointed you his spokesperson in this thread?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Following the muslim day of rage there were over 50 dead and many more wounded. And they intend to continue, under the guise of protest, for a week. The eygptian govt and military are considering declaring the brotherhood a terrorist organization. Well DUH. That's what they were until about ten years ago. And what they have always been since their inception. Even most of the egyptian population wants the brotherhood out. If they want democracy they need to outlaw the brotherhood completely. Can not outlaw them. Simply must eradicate them. That means hunt them down like the murdering dogs they are and kill them on the spot. Same way pest control people do roaches. Only one method brings results that matter. The MB must be utterly and completely destroyed. If not the Hydra will spring forth a new head that will grow quickly and start it all over again.-Tyr

[fj1200]

Just curious, but has Jahil appointed you his spokesperson in this thread?

Dude's got enough of an uphill battle than to have to argue against someone's imagination.

[jafar00]

I think the attacks on the Churches have more to do with Pope Tawdros standing side by side with Sisi than any religious tension.


Can not outlaw them. Simply must eradicate them. That means hunt them down like the murdering dogs they are and kill them on the spot. Same way pest control people do roaches. Only one method brings results that matter. The MB must be utterly and completely destroyed. If not the Hydra will spring forth a new head that will grow quickly and start it all over again.-Tyr

Yeh Tyr. Sieg Heil?

[Voted4Reagan]

Yeh Tyr. Sieg Heil?

Actually.... Muslims were affiliated with the Third Reich.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think the attacks on the Churches have more to do with Pope Tawdros standing side by side with Sisi than any religious tension.



Yeh Tyr. Sieg Heil? As if they are not a terrorist group you say , Sieg heil !! The MB is a terrorist organization just like Hamas, Hezbollah ETC. They proved that as soon as they were given National power in Egypt. I make no bones about how the murdering Islamic terrorists should be dealt with so take your Sieg heil and shove it Jafar. Quite likely that the Egyptians will have the good sense to brutally eliminate all of them. If not they risk being murdered in the future by the spawn of that evil murderous entity. I simply point out the obvious. No flip flopping for me as you do on the terrorist hating policy you claim then ignore when it comes to Hamas. Haven't you ever heard that a man can not serve two masters!!??
Those kind of murdering scum do not forgive, forget or reform their ways! -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Dude's got enough of an uphill battle than to have to argue against someone's imagination.
Is that what defending and supporting a known and well documented Islamic terrorist group(Hamas) is called?? An uphill battle? I call it stupidity and deceit since he previously claimed to be totally against the muslim terrorists and their evil murdering deeds! You were talking about Jafar, right?-Tyr

[fj1200]

Is that what defending and supporting a known and well documented Islamic terrorist group(Hamas) is called?? An uphill battle? I call it stupidity and deceit since he previously claimed to be totally against the muslim terrorists and their evil murdering deeds! You were talking about Jafar, right?-Tyr

Then one wouldn't need to rely on cheap tricks to win an argument would one.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Then one wouldn't need to rely on cheap tricks to win an argument would one. Truly haven't a clue what you mean by that statement. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Truly haven't a clue what you mean by that statement. -Tyr

Sleep on it. ;)

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658600#post658600)
Just curious, but has Jahil appointed you his spokesperson in this thread?





Dude's got enough of an uphill battle than to have to argue against someone's imagination.

Well, it's really up to him to tell me if the inference I see in his post is accurate or not... not you. As he has yet to say the inference was incorrect, that pretty much supports that I was correct in my statements.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sleep on it. ;) Why should I ? Perhaps I've MISSED A CHEAP TRICK HERE. If you think it not worthy of explaining then its not worthy of my trying to discover. Its a big forum and I do not get to read everything here. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Well, it's really up to him to tell me if the inference I see in his post is accurate or not... not you. As he has yet to say the inference was incorrect, that pretty much supports that I was correct in my statements.

Your inference is not his fault.


Why should I ? Perhaps I've MISSED A CHEAP TRICK HERE. If you think it not worthy of explaining then its not worthy of my trying to discover. Its a big forum and I do not get to read everything here. -Tyr

You ignore a Muslim thread? Not likely.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You ignore a Muslim thread? Not likely. Sorry haven't time to go read so many threads to try to figure out what you are saying. I may have missed it. If you wanted to keep it a big secret why bring it up in the first place?--Tyr

[fj1200]

Sorry haven't time to go read so many threads to try to figure out what you are saying. I may have missed it. If you wanted to keep it a big secret why bring it up in the first place?--Tyr

You only have to read one thread, this thread, and you placed yourself in the middle of it somehow while not being sure what it's about apparently.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You only have to read one thread, this thread, and you placed yourself in the middle of it somehow while not being sure what it's about apparently.
Too much trouble for you to quote a post or what? Hell, if so timid why not just quote mine where I got involved? And give your account of how wrong I was. I am used to it so it'll be a normal thing..... ;) -Tyr

[fj1200]

Too much trouble for you to quote a post or what? Hell, if so timid why not just quote mine where I got involved? And give your account of how wrong I was. I am used to it so it'll be a normal thing..... ;) -Tyr

Not too much trouble but clearly a waste of time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Not too much trouble but clearly a waste of time.

Then why bring it up ? Do you like wasting other people's time? Hell, I thought it was about to be one of the few times I could actually learn something from you. However if you now feel its a waste then more power to you. ;)

[fj1200]

Then why bring it up ? Do you like wasting other people's time? Hell, I thought it was about to be one of the few times I could actually learn something from you. However if you now feel its a waste then more power to you. ;)

I know the 8 posts, now 9, that I've made in this thread are pretty tough to track down.

[Drummond]

Then why bring it up ? Do you like wasting other people's time? Hell, I thought it was about to be one of the few times I could actually learn something from you. However if you now feel its a waste then more power to you. ;)

FJ just loves the sound of his own typing.

[fj1200]

FJ just loves the sound of his own typing.

The sounds of logic and reason being utilized in the art of debate are very soothing, you should give it a try.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I know the 8 posts, now 9, that I've made in this thread are pretty tough to track down.
Surely must be because you apparently can not find it to quote it. Your own post and strangely you can not find it to quote. If it proved something then I am interested in seeing it. Cheap trick I only saw one time in a concert in Memphis long ago. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Surely must be because you apparently can not find it to quote it. Your own post and strangely you can not find it to quote. If it proved something then I am interested in seeing it. Cheap trick I only saw one time in a concert in Memphis long ago. -Tyr

:roundandround:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

FJ just loves the sound of his own typing. I can not figure why fj doesn't want to quote his own words if they prove a cheap trick has been played by somebody..-Tyr

[fj1200]

I can not figure why fj doesn't want to quote his own words if they prove a cheap trick has been played by somebody..-Tyr

It's like trying to have a conversation with children. :facepalm99:


Don't mind that he didn't make that claim.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658793#post658793) I can not figure why fj doesn't want to quote his own words if they prove a cheap trick has been played by somebody..-Tyr
It's like trying to have a conversation with children. :facepalm99:



http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by fj1200 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658524#post658524)
Don't mind that he didn't make that claim.



Didn't make that claim huh? --Tyr fj1200 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?728-fj1200)

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http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/icons/icon1.png http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=658703#post658703)


Is that what defending and supporting a known and well documented Islamic terrorist group(Hamas) is called?? An uphill battle? I call it stupidity and deceit since he previously claimed to be totally against the muslim terrorists and their evil murdering deeds! You were talking about Jafar, right?-Tyr



Then one wouldn't need to rely on cheap tricks to win an argument would one.



Did you forget that you made that comment? -Tyr

[jafar00]

Actually.... Muslims were affiliated with the Third Reich.

....and Christians..... and Jews..... and Atheists......


As if they are not a terrorist group you say , Sieg heil !! The MB is a terrorist organization just like Hamas, Hezbollah ETC. They proved that as soon as they were given National power in Egypt. I make no bones about how the murdering Islamic terrorists should be dealt with so take your Sieg heil and shove it Jafar. Quite likely that the Egyptians will have the good sense to brutally eliminate all of them. If not they risk being murdered in the future by the spawn of that evil murderous entity. I simply point out the obvious. No flip flopping for me as you do on the terrorist hating policy you claim then ignore when it comes to Hamas. Haven't you ever heard that a man can not serve two masters!!?? -Tyr

I'm not the one calling for the extermination of an entire group of people here. YOU ARE!

[jimnyc]

3 churches? I believe the count is now up to 40 that these cockroaches have attacked. And if that isn't bad enough, they decided to parade some nuns around for good measure, like prisoners. Prisoners of what? Oh, wait, it's Egypt and it's Egyptian men - they are prisoners of the men there and it's only par for the course for the women to be beat by the men.


CAIRO (AP) — After torching a Franciscan school, Islamists paraded three nuns on the streets like "prisoners of war" before a Muslim woman offered them refuge. Two other women working at the school were sexually harassed and abused as they fought their way through a mob.

In the four days since security forces cleared two sit-in camps by supporters of Egypt's ousted president, Islamists have attacked dozens of Coptic churches along with homes and businesses owned by the Christian minority. The campaign of intimidation appears to be a warning to Christians outside Cairo to stand down from political activism.

Christians have long suffered from discrimination and violence in Muslim majority Egypt, where they make up 10 percent of the population of 90 million. Attacks increased after the Islamists rose to power in the wake of the 2011 Arab Spring uprising that drove Hosni Mubarak from power, emboldening extremists. But Christians have come further under fire since President Mohammed Morsi was ousted on July 3, sparking a wave of Islamist anger led by Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood.

Nearly 40 churches have been looted and torched, while 23 others have been attacked and heavily damaged since Wednesday, when chaos erupted after Egypt's military-backed interim administration moved in to clear two camps packed with protesters calling for Morsi's reinstatement, killing scores of protesters and sparking deadly clashes nationwide.

One of the world's oldest Christian communities has generally kept a low-profile, but has become more politically active since Mubarak was ousted and Christians sought to ensure fair treatment in the aftermath.

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-islamists-hit-christian-churches-235144103.html

[Drummond]

The sounds of logic and reason being utilized in the art of debate are very soothing, you should give it a try.

What, so that you can respond by 'convincingly' crossing it all out .. ???!? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Drummond]

....and Christians..... and Jews..... and Atheists......

Ahem ! I believe you HAVE heard of the Holocaust ?? After all, didn't you question the facts and figures pertaining to it ?


I'm not the one calling for the extermination of an entire group of people here. YOU ARE!

Is that so ?

You side with Hamas, and they're busily trying to exterminate as many Jewish people in Israel that they can manage ! In case you STILL have somehow failed to read the Hamas Charter, they want the State of Israel destroyed.

As did Ahmadinejad .. who had his own approach to that. And, Jafar, what WAS his approach ? Remind us, please ...

Jafar, do you really want to paddle about in waters as murky as these ?

[tailfins]

Actually.... Muslims were affiliated with the Third Reich.

The preferred religious practice of Hitler's inner circle was Nordic Paganism; look it up. Hitler seemed to mix his Paganism with Catholicism. From WikiPedia:


Adolf Hitler was raised by a sceptic father and a devout Catholic mother; he ceased to participate in the sacraments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament) after childhood.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs#cite_note-Susannah_Heschel_2008._pp_1-10-1) Contradictory accounts exist about Adolf Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)'s religious views, including his ties to Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity) and the Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism) church. According to Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer), Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church to his political associates, but remained a formal member of the Catholic church until his death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler)

If the Papists were opposed to Hitler, why was he never excommunicated?

Then there is the book:

Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XIIhttp://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Pope-Secret-History-Pius/dp/014311400X

[jimnyc]

You side with Hamas, and they're busily trying to exterminate as many Jewish people in Israel that they can manage !

:clap::clap:

"Only Jew blood is good blood".
"ALL Jews are bad"
"We will NEVER negotiate for peace"

What jolly good people for people to emulate and support!

[Larrymc]

3 churches? I believe the count is now up to 40 that these cockroaches have attacked. And if that isn't bad enough, they decided to parade some nuns around for good measure, like prisoners. Prisoners of what? Oh, wait, it's Egypt and it's Egyptian men - they are prisoners of the men there and it's only par for the course for the women to be beat by the men.



http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-islamists-hit-christian-churches-235144103.html"Truly Despicable Monsters"

[Voted4Reagan]

....and Christians..... and Jews..... and Atheists......



I'm not the one calling for the extermination of an entire group of people here. YOU ARE!


he Muslim Brotherhood was a direct ally under Haj Amin al-Husseni.

They still practice NAZI DOCTRINE to this day,

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

....and Christians..... and Jews..... and Atheists......



I'm not the one calling for the extermination of an entire group of people here. YOU ARE! So what? So they can wage a holy war and then be treated like ordinary criminals or just a mob that got out of hand. Excuse you but they are a damn terrorist group hell bent on massacring people! They are not to get kid glove treatment Hoss. The fact that you cry for such treatment gives away your true loyalty IMHO. Which means you cry for special treatment for --your-- FAVORED TERRORISTS. Such hypocrisy has revealed for all to see your true spirit Jafar. The One true God condemns your support for those that actually engage in the wholesale murder on innocent women and children. My suggestion was to deal harshly with grown men that are already known murderers --known terrorists , it did not include any innocent people . You support a group that readily and deliberately kill thousands of innocent people! If I have a splinter in my eye you have a damn huge plank in yours..-Tyr

[fj1200]

Did you forget that you made that comment? -Tyr

Of course not, my gray cells are functioning just fine.


What, so that you can respond by 'convincingly' crossing it all out .. ???!? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't cross out logic and reason, I cross out ignorant blather that is generally off topic. Speaking of which; how are you?

[aboutime]

:clap::clap:

"Only Jew blood is good blood".
"ALL Jews are bad"
"We will NEVER negotiate for peace"

What jolly good people for people to emulate and support!


Take a moment now, and imagine how Happy, and Cheerful jafar must have become after reading those words above???

[jafar00]

Ahem ! I believe you HAVE heard of the Holocaust ?? After all, didn't you question the facts and figures pertaining to it ?

http://jbuff.com/c021606.htm
http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/150-000-jews-in-hitlers-army.html
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/00/03/NSJews.html

Google makes it easy to find.

[QUOTE=Drummond;658813]Is that so ?

You side with Hamas, and they're busily trying to exterminate as many Jewish people in Israel that they can manage ! In case you STILL have somehow failed to read the Hamas Charter, they want the State of Israel destroyed.

As did Ahmadinejad .. who had his own approach to that. And, Jafar, what WAS his approach ? Remind us, please ...

Jafar, do you really want to paddle about in waters as murky as these ?

Might I refer you to an earlier post he made?


Can not outlaw them. Simply must eradicate them. That means hunt them down like the murdering dogs they are and kill them on the spot. Same way pest control people do roaches. Only one method brings results that matter. The MB must be utterly and completely destroyed. If not the Hydra will spring forth a new head that will grow quickly and start it all over again.-Tyr

Not far removed from the way the Nazis referred to the Jews as vermin and rats is it?


he Muslim Brotherhood was a direct ally under Haj Amin al-Husseni.

They still practice NAZI DOCTRINE to this day,

There is no proof that the Nazi doctrine and Islam ever came together. Amin Al-Husseni only allied with the Nazis because they offered to protect their right to remain living in their homes. The right to a sovereign Palestinian homeland and freedom from foreign occupation.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...There is no proof that the Nazi doctrine and Islam ever came together....

dumb ass...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/816232/posts



Al Husseini found the Nazis to be a strong ideological match with his anti-Jewish brand of Islam, and schemed with Hitler and the Nazi hierarchy to create a pro-Nazi pan-Arabic form of government in the Middle East.


Dr. Serge Trifkovic documents the similarities between Al Husseini's brand of radical Islam and Nazism in his book The Sword of the Prophet. He noted parallels in both ideologies: anti-Semitism, quest for world dominance, demand for the total subordination of the free will of the individual, belief in the abolishment of the nation-state in favor of a "higher" community (in Islam the umma or community of all believers; in Nazism, the herrenvolk or master race), and belief in undemocratic governance by a "divine" leader (an Islamic caliph, or Nazi führer).


The Nazis provided Al Husseini with luxurious accommodations in Berlin and a monthly stipend in excess of $10,000. In return, he regularly appeared on German radio touting the Jews as the "most fierce enemies of Muslims," and implored an adoption of the Nazi "final solution" by Arabs. After the Nazi defeat at El Alamein in 1942, Al Husseini broadcast radio messages on Radio Berlin calling for continued Arabic resistance to Allied forces. In time, he came to be known as the "Fuhrer's Mufti" and the "Arab Fuhrer."


In March 1944, Al Husseini broadcast a call for a jihad to "kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion."


Moreover, Al Husseini personally recruited Bosnia Muslims for the German Waffen SS, including the Skanderberg Division from Albania and Hanjer Division from Bosnia. The Hanjer (Saber) Division of the Waffen SS was responsible for the murder of over 90 percent of the Yugoslavian Jewish population.


Almost 30 years after al Husseini's death in 1974, the Palestinian people still revere him as a hero and embrace his radical theology. The "Arab Fuhrer's" close Nazi association and virulent anti-Semitism is perhaps the reason that Hitler's Meinf Kampf is ranked as the sixth all-time bestseller among Palestinian Arabs.

[Voted4Reagan]

There is no proof that the Nazi doctrine and Islam ever came together. Amin Al-Husseni only allied with the Nazis because they offered to protect their right to remain living in their homes. The right to a sovereign Palestinian homeland and freedom from foreign occupation.

Yes there is....

A picture is worth a thousand words...

The head if the Muslim brotherhood and Hitler below.

http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haj-Amin-al-Husseini-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpeg

Guess they came together.......

LIAR...and DENIER.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Yes there is....

A picture is worth a thousand words...

The head if the Muslim brotherhood and Hitler below.

http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haj-Amin-al-Husseini-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpeg

Guess they came together.......

LIAR...and DENIER.

Jahil will now claim either that the phot is doctored, or that they were discussing the peaceful methods in which Hitler would rule the world & how the Muslims would live in peace and harmony with the Jews.

[Larrymc]

Jahil will now claim either that the phot is doctored, or that they were discussing the peaceful methods in which Hitler would rule the world & how the Muslims would live in peace and harmony with the Jews.Yea sure that was my first impression. (NOT)

[fj1200]

Yes there is....

A picture is worth a thousand words...

The head if the Muslim brotherhood and Hitler below.

http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haj-Amin-al-Husseini-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpeg

Guess they came together.......

LIAR...and DENIER.

And a picture of Hitler with H. Ford or P. Bush would prove???

[Voted4Reagan]

And a picture of Hitler with H. Ford or P. Bush would prove???

show me such a picture

[fj1200]

show me such a picture

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/2980/images/hitler_bush.jpg

So what would a picture of (insert American Industralist from the 30's) with Hitler prove?

[Marcus Aurelius]

show me such a picture

Ford was a known anti-Semite, and apparently is the only American mentioned in Mien Kampf. However, I do not believe he ever met Hitler, so a photo of them together would most likely be a fake.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/2980/images/hitler_bush.jpg

So what would a picture of (insert American Industralist from the 30's) with Hitler prove?

A,,, fake.

B...
According to journalist Joe Conason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Conason), Prescott Bush's involvement with UBC was purely commercial and he was not a Nazi sympathizer.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#cite_note-9) The Anti-Defamation League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#cite_note-adl-10) and historian Herbert Parmet[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#cite_note-Parmet-7) agreed with that assessment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

[fj1200]

Ford was a known anti-Semite, and apparently is the only American mentioned in Mien Kampf. However, I do not believe he ever met Hitler, so a photo of them together would most likely be a fake.

True I believe on both.


A,,, fake.

Not surprised.


B...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

No argument here. The question remains what would a picture of your favorite American from the 30's and Hitler prove? That they agree with everything down the line or that they were in the same frame or possibly had a common enemy?

[jimnyc]

I wonder how many women in Islam, equivalent to a Nun, have been "captured" and paraded around as if they were prisoners of war, during the unrest in Egypt?

[Drummond]

[QUOTE=Drummond;658813]Ahem ! I believe you HAVE heard of the Holocaust ?? After all, didn't you question the facts and figures pertaining to it ?

http://jbuff.com/c021606.htm
http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/150-000-jews-in-hitlers-army.html
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/00/03/NSJews.html

Google makes it easy to find.

So what do you think any of YOUR LINKS prove, Jafar ? Is this your way of perverting history to say that the Holocaust didn't happen, or, that Jews were Hitler's ALLIES ??

Everyone knows that the opposite is true.

Will you now tell me that Hitler's forces didn't fight the Russians ? Or, that they remained friendly throughout with the British ?

Did the London Blitz never happen, in JafarWorld ?

See ...

http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2013/03/wehrmacht-and-hitlers-foreign-soldiers


The third category fighting with the Germans were from Eastern Europe – the Baltic States, Ukraine, Belarus, the Caucasus. Over half a million volunteered or were encouraged to change sides once they were PoWs. Some fought in anti-partisan units, some alongside German forces, a great many served in subordinate roles as guards, trench diggers or labourers. Much more is now known about the so-called ‘Hiwis’ (volunteers) in the German armed forces and it is a pity that Müller does not devote more space to the motives that drove them to join and the German policy for exploiting them.

At the end of the war many of the non-Germans who fought against the Soviet Union were treated harshly when they returned home. Some were executed, others imprisoned; all were tarred with the brush of ‘collaboration’ ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Free_Corps


The British Free Corps (German: Britisches Freikorps) was a unit of the Waffen SS during World War II consisting of British and Dominion prisoners of war who had been recruited by the Nazis. The unit was originally known as the Legion of St. George.[1] Research by a British journalist, Adrian Weale,[2] has identified about 59 men who belonged to this unit at one time or another, some for only a few days.

So you see, Jafar, this did go on. The Germans recruited people they'd captured and basically 'bribed' them into fighting on the German side. But unless you want to claim that Hitler's enemies were in fact his friends all along, you've nothing to prove with any of your links about Jews fighting with Nazis. Fact is, those caught under Nazi rule survived as best they could .. if, in fact, they were able to.


Might I refer you to an earlier post he made?

Not far removed from the way the Nazis referred to the Jews as vermin and rats is it?

But there's at least one all-important difference, Jafar. Jews were labelled 'Untermensch' just as a product of race hatred, with no foundation other than this to explain it. Tyr, by total contrast, has been considering Muslim terrorists, and what underpins their behaviour. The truth of it is that, by NO stretch of the imagination, can Muslim terrorism be reconciled with any claim that those responsible are 'human'.

I've tried to debate this point many times, and those debates always have the same outcome .. those saying they ARE human, just end up asserting it because they want to. They never provide indisputable proof of what they prefer to believe.

Tyr, I therefore suggest - and for more reason than I'm considering here - IS JUSTIFIED.


There is no proof that the Nazi doctrine and Islam ever came together. Amin Al-Husseni only allied with the Nazis because they offered to protect their right to remain living in their homes. The right to a sovereign Palestinian homeland and freedom from foreign occupation.

Oh, really ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world# Arab_incorporation_and_emulation_of_fascism


Many emerging movements in the Arab world were influenced by European fascist and Nazi organizations during the 1930s. The Young Egypt Party ("Green shirts") closely resembled the Hitler Youth and was "obviously Nazi in form". The Syrian Social Nationalist Party (SSNP) adopted styles of fascism. Its emblem, the red hurricane, was taken from the Nazi swastika, leader Anton Saada was known as al-za'im (the Führer), and the party anthem was "Syria, Syria, fiber alles" sung to the same tune as the German national anthem. He founded the fascist SSNP with a program that Syrians were "a distinctive and naturally superior race".

Gamal Abdel Nasser (who would become Egypt's second president in 1956) recorded his sympathy and his disappointment at Germany's defeat. Rashid Ali al-Gaylani was resuscitated as a hero in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Saddam Hussein's uncle Khairallah Talfah participated in the Rashid Ali al-Gaylani regime

Yes, Jafar, and Abu Hamza was a MI6 stooge ..... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/2980/images/hitler_bush.jpg

So what would a picture of (insert American Industralist from the 30's) with Hitler prove?

Fake Picture is obviously Fake.

The Picture I posted is real.

JAFAR said that the Muslim Brotherhood had no connections to the NAZI'S.

I showed him to be a Liar as well... just like you

[aboutime]

Sir Drummond. Listening, or reading the garbage we see every day from jafar reminded me of this movie, and the point jafar...Only Thinks he is making here....


http://youtu.be/DBSAeqdcZAM


By the way. I suspect jafar actually looks like the person shown to the Left in that photo.

[jafar00]

Yes there is....

A picture is worth a thousand words...

The head if the Muslim brotherhood and Hitler below.

http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haj-Amin-al-Husseini-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpeg

Guess they came together.......

LIAR...and DENIER.

I never said they didn't come together. The reason you give for it is wrong. It was a political union born out of a desire to be free from foreign occupation. Something the Allies were clearly two faced about. Remember the Balfour double cross?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I never said they didn't come together. The reason you give for it is wrong. It was a political union born out of a desire to be free from foreign occupation. Something the Allies were clearly two faced about. Remember the Balfour double cross?

it had nothing to do with foreign occupation, dumb ass.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3ybj (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3ybj)


Hitler's Muslim Legions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00t3ybj)It was after Germany's invasion of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union in 1941 that Hitler's attention was first drawn to the potential for Muslim recruits to swell his ranks. For the many thousands of captured Soviet Muslims, the opportunity to serve in the Wehrmacht offered an escape from the brutality and starvation of the prison camps. Elsewhere, a major recruitment drive amongst Bosnian Muslims led to tens of thousands signing up for the Waffen-SS. Formed into exclusive Muslim units, these men fought in some of the most brutal campaigns of the entire war.
This programme investigates why Hitler and Himmler apparently cast aside their Nazi ideal of an Aryan master race, justifying the admission of Islam into their ranks. It asks what attracted these men to fight for the Third Reich, how they were treated by their German officers and how they conducted themselves in the bedlam of war. Were they hopeless soldiers who committed unspeakable atrocities; or did they fight bravely for the Fuhrer?
We examine the fate of these Muslims at the end of the war. With Hitler dead and the Third Reich defeated there was nothing to protect them, and most were killed as traitors.

[Drummond]

I never said they didn't come together. The reason you give for it is wrong. It was a political union born out of a desire to be free from foreign occupation. Something the Allies were clearly two faced about. Remember the Balfour double cross?

How do you explain PRESENT DAY reverence for Hitler from the Arab world ??

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2599556/posts


An example of admiration for Hitler in today's Arab world can be seen in a talk show recently aired on the Egyptian channel Al-Nas, where Egyptian cleric Hussam Fawzi Jabar justified Hitler's actions against the Jews.

Following are excerpts from Al-Quwaifli's article:

"Those Who Wave the Slogan 'History Is Written by the Victors' Do Not Bother to Find Out the Truth about Hitler."

I wonder if Jabar is a Holocaust denier, Jafar (hey, you're not related to him, are you ?) ...

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/180551


"We were the first to think of translating Mein Kampf," wrote Sami al-Jundi, a leader of the Syrian Ba'ath Party in the 1930s. "Whoever lived during this period in Damascus would appreciate the inclination of the Arab people to Nazism, for Nazism was the power which could serve as its champion". Al-Jundi also confessed that "we were racist, admiring Nazism, reading its books and the sources of its thought, particularly Nietzsche, Fichte, and H. S. Chamberlain".

How many people know that Arab delegations and senior political figures were invited to the annual Nazi rallies in Nuremberg during the 1930s? Such details are not simply random anecdotes from the remote past. Indeed, in his new book Jihad and Jew-Hatred, German scholar Matthias Küntzel argues that the origins of the Islamist terror of recent years, which culminated in the attacks on the United States on 11 September 2001, and of the radical anti-Semitic ideologies of Hamas, Hizballah, Iran, the Palestine Covenant, and al-Qaeda, lie in the lethal link between Islamism and Nazism.

[Voted4Reagan]

I never said they didn't come together. The reason you give for it is wrong. It was a political union born out of a desire to be free from foreign occupation. Something the Allies were clearly two faced about. Remember the Balfour double cross?

and under the hatred fueled rhetoric of Adolf Hitler the Muslim Brotherhood adopted antisemitism as their major purpose.

Under previous Mufti's, Jews were tolerated. The outright genocidal rage shown today comes straight from the Third Reich.

The connections of the Muslim Brotherhood in the forming of SS Divisions that directly contributed to the Holocaust is also well known. All of this was done at the encouragement of Haj Amin al-Husseni.

The entire Pan-Arab Nationalist movement born in the 1930's has direct links to Nazi Germany.

In Nuremberg , Haj Amin al-Husseni was convicted of War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity for his and the Muslim Brotherhoods parts in the Holocaust.

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/mohammedism/mohammedism21.html

<big><big><tt>
After the War, and after his conviction as a war criminal at Nuremberg and the issuance of a warrant for his arrest from Yugoslavia for crimes against humanity, the Mufti fled to Cairo where, as a guest of Abdel Gamal Nasser, another of his many protégés, he remained in exile for the rest of his life. From Cairo, he devoted his considerable energies toward the destruction of the State of Israel and the poisoning of any vestiges of peace between Israel and the Arab states. He would help Nazi war criminals settle in the Arab world through what is known as operation Odessa. He would further encourage his followers to seize power in Arab capitals and to establish National Socialist style governments.

</tt></big></big><big><big><tt>
http://youtu.be/UZtWFZm_dWs</tt></big></big>

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE]Is that so ?

You side with Hamas, and they're busily trying to exterminate as many Jewish people in Israel that they can manage ! In case you STILL have somehow failed to read the Hamas Charter, they want the State of Israel destroyed.

As did Ahmadinejad .. who had his own approach to that. And, Jafar, what WAS his approach ? Remind us, please ...

Jafar, do you really want to paddle about in waters as murky as these ?


Not far removed from the way the Nazis referred to the Jews as vermin and rats is it?

.

The Jews THAT WERE MURDERD BY THE NAZIS were civilians not engaged in any murdering activity as are the muslim terrorists. Not a shock that you totally ignore that great distinction and ignorantly try to compare the two. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Fake Picture is obviously Fake.

The Picture I posted is real.

JAFAR said that the Muslim Brotherhood had no connections to the NAZI'S.

I showed him to be a Liar as well... just like you

Not exactly what he said but you don't let that get in your way do you?


There is no proof that the Nazi doctrine and Islam ever came together. Amin Al-Husseni only allied with the Nazis because they offered to protect their right to remain living in their homes. The right to a sovereign Palestinian homeland and freedom from foreign occupation.

Nevertheless I didn't lie, I asked a question.

[Spike]

Mubarak was a dictator, morsi slept with the brotherhood, we need to support the new group. The people want change real change democratic change not more puppets.

[jafar00]

Mubarak was a dictator, morsi slept with the brotherhood, we need to support the new group. The people want change real change democratic change not more puppets.

The most on topic post on here recently. Well done!

However a Military Coup does not equal democratic change. Mubarak was military. All we have here is the old regime taking power back and from the killing and suppression of descent going on, it is plain to see. Sisi is more like a Lukashenko or Assad than any kind of democratic leader you can describe.

[Drummond]

The most on topic post on here recently. Well done!

However a Military Coup does not equal democratic change. Mubarak was military. All we have here is the old regime taking power back and from the killing and suppression of descent going on, it is plain to see. Sisi is more like a Lukashenko or Assad than any kind of democratic leader you can describe.

Morsi, then, was a shining example of democracy in action ?? He was popular, was he ?

http://www.dailyguideghana.com/?p=92563


If Morsi had been sagacious or even pragmatic enough to appreciate that in a country which had given him less than half its votes, he needed to try and reach an accommodation with the rest of the population that had denied him its votes — instead of trying to ram the Moslem Brotherhood’s sectarian programme down the throats of every Egyptian — he might have been able to contain the discontent that arose up against the Moslem Brotherhood’s agenda. After all, most Egyptians are Muslims, and although the Brotherhood’s agenda is too extreme for most of them, they could accept a modified version of it. But Morsi appeared unbending to them.

So Tahrir Square filled up again with crowds. And the Egyptian army, which may well have conceived its own secret agenda, used the opportunity to overthrow Morsi.

Morsi’s Moslem Brotherhood cried foul: “But Morsi was elected democratically! If it is crowds you want to see, we shall show you crowds.” And truly, they filled up mosques and squares with people, some of whom said they were ready to die. They refused to disperse when asked by the army to do so. And on August 14, 2013, the Egyptian army opened fire on them.

The infamy of that unjustifiable deed will live forever in the memory of the Middle East and Africa.

The lesson it teaches, though, is this: democracy is not only about votes. Votes are only a part of the mechanics of pursuing politics, whose best definition is the art of the possible. Democracy, it has been seen from history, can be used (as by the Nazis) to impose tyranny by the majority. Or it can be used by a minority to impose tyranny on the majority (as when Morsi, who was elected by a minority of the Egyptian electorate, sought to impose the religion-based programme of his minority Moslem Brotherhood, on the majority of Egyptians, who prefer secular rule).

In a truly democratic state, competing interests must be recognised and a compromise reached with them, which can bring stability to the nation as a whole. Those who live by unbending rules when faced with reasonable political demands, risk attracting to themselves, the designs of an element even more unbending than them – that of the armed forces. That’s what’s happened in Egypt. A new and probably even greater struggle for freedom therefore faces the Egyptian people. And Morsi and his Moslem Brotherhood cannot entirely escape the blame for that.

[jimnyc]

Morsi, then, was a shining example of democracy in action ?? He was popular, was he ?

Morsi was a piece of muslim crap who tried to unilaterally change their constitution from the beginning and make himself and his filthy cronies untouchable. Yeah, sure, that's democracy! :rolleyes:

[Drummond]

Morsi was a piece of muslim crap who tried to unilaterally change their constitution from the beginning and make himself and his filthy cronies untouchable. Yeah, sure, that's democracy! :rolleyes:

Couldn't have put it better myself .. :clap:

[jafar00]

Morsi was a piece of muslim crap who tried to unilaterally change their constitution from the beginning and make himself and his filthy cronies untouchable. Yeah, sure, that's democracy! :rolleyes:

He gained the Presidency by popular democratic vote. He should have been allowed to complete his term just like in any other democracy. However, Egyptians don't really understand the concept. All that is moot now the military coup has happened. They have their military dictatorship back.

[Gaffer]

A whole bunch of brotherhood followers are dead. That's a good thing. Now the egyptian army needs to step up and protect the coptic christians. Since the bro's can't do anything against the military they are now turning on the coptics. Actually just stepping up what they were doing already under morsi. I'm sure jafar finds that a reasonable thing to do.

I think the egyptians did a smart thing by rioting against morsi and forcing the army to have a coup. A strong hand is what's needed to put down these theocratic nut jobs. At least now there won't be a taliban style rule in egypt as there would have been had morsi been left in power.

[Drummond]

He gained the Presidency by popular democratic vote. He should have been allowed to complete his term just like in any other democracy. However, Egyptians don't really understand the concept. All that is moot now the military coup has happened. They have their military dictatorship back.

How many democracies do you know, where the Party leader starts moving to institute Sharia Law once he attains power ?? And, moreover, goes in for a personal power grab the first chance he gets, then refuses to consider backing down, or consider compromise, when dissention becomes strong against him ?

By the way, to what extent, Jafar, does THIS worry you .. ??

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3840/hamas-overthrow-next


These are tough days for Hamas. After losing the military and financial support of Iran and Syria, Hamas has now lost its main allies in Egypt.

The downfall of the Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt is a severe blow to Hamas, whose leaders are now studying ways of avoiding a "revolution" that could end their rule in the Gaza Strip.

But although Hamas has suffered a major setback in wake of the ouster of Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, it is premature to talk about the beginning of the countdown for the collapse of the Hamas regime.

The Gaza Strip has neither an organized opposition nor an army that could assist in removing Hamas from power.

One of the biggest fears is that if Hamas is toppled, those who would replace it would not be any better. This is particularly true in light of the growing popularity of various Islamist groups operating inside the Gaza Strip, some of which are affiliated with al-Qaeda.

Hamas supporters were the first to celebrate the toppling of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, and the first to take to the streets in jubilation over the victory of the Muslim Brotherhood candidate, Morsi, in the general elections a year ago.

Morsi's rise to power had been seen by Hamas and other Muslims as a "divine victory": Allah's gift to his believers.

Contrary to Mubarak, Morsi's regime adopted a completely different policy toward Hamas.

While Mubarak dealt with Hamas and the Gaza Strip as a "security" issue, Morsi sought to legitimize the Palestinian Islamist movement in the eyes of the whole world.

For the first time ever, and much to the dismay of the West Bank's Palestinian Authority leaders, under Morsi, Hamas leaders became regular and welcome guests in the Egyptian presidential palace.

Morsi's rise to power emboldened Hamas in a way that allowed it further to tighten its grip on the Gaza Strip.

For Hamas, there was nothing better than having the full political backing of Egypt, the largest and most important country in the region.

During the last war between Israel and Hamas, "Operation Pillar of Defense," and much to the dismay of Fatah's Palestinian Authority leaders in the West Bank, Morsi dispatched Egyptian prime minister Hesham Qandil to the Gaza Strip, in an unprecedented show of solidarity with the Hamas regime.

Qandil's visit was followed by a series of mutual visits to the Gaza Strip and Egypt by Hamas and Egyptian cabinet ministers and top officials.

Although Hamas leaders have publicly played down the significance of the Egyptian coup, reports from the Gaza Strip suggest that some leaders of the Islamist movement are already nervous.

According to one report, the new rulers of Egypt have issued an order banning all Hamas leaders from entering their country.

Another report said that Egyptian security authorities have arrested several Hamas members based in Cairo and Sinai on charges of involvement in terror attacks against Egyptians.

Hamas leaders who tried to contact senior Egyptian government officials over the past few days said their phone calls were being totally ignored ....

'ISLAMIST GROUPS AFFILIATED WITH AL QAEDA ??

... WITH THOSE NON-MUSLIMS, JAFAR .. ????

[Kathianne]

Returning to the attacks on the churches, a historical site destroyed. Now with the possible exception of Israel, Egypt has traditionally been a destination for religious pilgrimages and tourist dollars. These attacks are not only against the minority, they are against the economy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579022951847863272.html




August 21, 2013, 5:46 p.m. ET

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smaller (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579022951847863272.html#)
Larger (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579022951847863272.html#)



<!-- http://www.wsj.de http://online.wsj.com -->

SAMUEL TADROS


No one knows exactly when the Virgin Mary Church was built, but the fourth and fifth centuries are both possible options. In both cases, it was the time of the Byzantines. Egypt's Coptic Church—to which this church in modern-day Delga belonged—had refused to bow to imperial power and Rome's leadership over the nature of Christ. Constantinople was adamant it would force its will on the Copts. Two lines of popes claimed the Seat of Alexandria. One with imperial blessing sat in the open; the other, with his people's support, often hid, moving from one church to the other. Virgin Mary Church's altar outlasted the Byzantines. Arabs soon invaded in A.D. 641. Dynasties rose and fell, but the ancient building remained strong, a monument to its people's survival.


Virgin Mary Church was built underground, a shelter from the prying eye. At its entrance were two ancient Roman columns and an iron door. Inside were three sanctuaries with four altars. Roman columns were engraved in the walls. As in many Coptic churches, historical artifacts overlapped earlier ones. The most ancient drawing to survive into the 21st century: a depiction, on a stone near the entrance, of two deer and holy bread.

Layers and layers of history, a testament not only to the place's ancient roots but also to its persistence. Like other Coptic churches, the ancient baptistery was on the western side, facing the altar in the east. Infants were symbolically transferred through baptism from the left to the right. The old icons were kept inside the church, the ancient manuscripts transferred to the Bishopric in modern times.


Once there were 23 other ancient churches next to it, all connected through secret passages. Only Virgin Mary Church remained. Decline and survival, loss and endurance, the twin faces of the story of the Copts who built it.


Why Virgin Mary Church endured until modern times is a mystery. Some churches in Cairo survived because Coptic popes made them their residence. Being built on a place Jesus and his mother had visited gave others in Egypt a claim to fame and a chance at survival, while in still others the miracles performed by the patron saint were a reason for pilgrims to visit and donate. Virgin Mary Church had none of these. For hundreds of years, its sole claim to miracles: a Roman column that, according to parishioners, produced oil once a year on Good Friday. The church was probably too small and too remote from the center of authority to merit notice. Its flock never abandoned it. Most of the Copts had converted to Islam over the centuries, but in Delga a critical mass remained that kept putting candles in front of the old icons.
...


But survival was not destined two weeks later. The army's violent crackdown on Mohamed Morsi's supporters in Cairo unleashed a wave of attacks on churches the like of which Copts had not seen in centuries, thus laying waste to examples of a unique byway in the history of architecture, religious structures that are a hybrid of Egyptian, Greco-Roman and Christian Byzantine styles. Dozens of churches were burned and destroyed in the largest attack on Coptic houses of worship since 1321. A complete tally is still to be written. But in its latest report, the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, Egypt's best human-rights organization, documents a total of 47 churches attacked, of which 25 were burned, seven looted and destroyed, five partly damaged, and 10 attacked without sustaining heavy damage.


In this maelstrom, the ancient Virgin Mary Church was not spared. In a day of brutality, the people of Delga distinguished themselves. All three of Delga's Coptic churches were destroyed. So were a Catholic and a Protestant church in the city. In place of Virgin Mary Church, the mob placed a sign: The Martyrs Mosque.
Other areas in the country attempted to compete. The school run by Franciscan nuns in Beni Suef was destroyed. It had been opened in 1889 and provided education to thousands of Egypt's girls. A symbol of a bygone time. Lost with the building were many artifacts, statues and paintings. A museum in Malawi was also destroyed. About 1,200 ancient artifacts have been looted.


A Coptic exodus has been under way for two years now in Egypt. The hopes unleashed by the 2011 revolution soon gave way to the realities of continued and intensified persecution. Decades earlier, a similar fate had befallen the country's once-thriving Jewish community. The departure of the people is echoed in the decay of the buildings. The landscape of the country is changing along with its demography. A few synagogues stand today as the only reminder of the country's Jews. Which churches will remain standing is an open question.

[jafar00]

I am waiting to get a link in English. My wife informed me that Arabic news is covering the story that the Churches were attacked by regime paid thugs, then blamed on Ikhwan to garner sympathy for the massacre.

This is pure old regime tactics. They (Ordered by Habib Al Adly - Former Egyptian Interior Minister) bombed a church in Alexandria and blamed it on "Islamists" in order to justify a brutal crackdown before the revolution that toppled Mubarak. All throughout that revolution and Morsi's rule the thugs continued to undermine security.

[fj1200]

Returning to the attacks on the churches, a historical site destroyed. Now with the possible exception of Israel, Egypt has traditionally been a destination for religious pilgrimages and tourist dollars. These attacks are not only against the minority, they are against the economy.

They're screwed.

[Larrymc]

Mubarak was a dictator, morsi slept with the brotherhood, we need to support the new group. The people want change real change democratic change not more puppets.Problem is the Brotherhood was Obama's people, Morsi should have never been recognized as a Leader.

[aboutime]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned, and Obama played SIX rounds of golf.

Anyone see a connection?

[jafar00]

These attacks are not only against the minority, they are against the economy.

They are also against Islamic Law.

[aboutime]

They are also against Islamic Law.



Hey jafar. Would you like to share your happiness about what probably took place today, or at least, what was reported today from Syria?

How do you feel now that your Support for known Terror groups has probably Murdered/Gased almost 100,000 Innocent people whom you probably will say...deserved it???

[jimnyc]

Hey jafar. Would you like to share your happiness about what probably took place today, or at least, what was reported today from Syria?

How do you feel now that your Support for known Terror groups has probably Murdered/Gased almost 100,000 Innocent people whom you probably will say...deserved it???

Interesting to see that he is now back to attacks being against Islamic law. I guess he got tired of the defending of Hamas attacks of Israel.

And thank you for quoting the tripe, and forcing me to read the never ending tale of 2 sides of terrorism, some we support and some we don't. Like I said earlier - imagine me, talking about ANY support of Al Qaeda, no matter how small, just ANY support. Even imagine I supported their right to breath. Or I swept the floors of a building knowing they used it. I mean, I can't even think of a single thing in this world that would have me even leaning towards supporting anything at all they can do. Even if it were them donating $1 billion dollars to a children's hospital. Sorry, the money should immediately get destroyed. Tell the Americans, as usual we would be the first to donate to help others, and give till it hurts and reaches the goal for the hospital. Meanwhile, islam and FAR too many muslims would rather donate and/or support the vermin, and almost every one of them will turn a blind eye.

[Marcus Aurelius]

They are also against Islamic Law.

Yet they are done by Muslims. Go figure.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I am waiting to get a link in English. My wife informed me that Arabic news is covering the story that the Churches were attacked by regime paid thugs, then blamed on Ikhwan to garner sympathy for the massacre.

This is pure old regime tactics. They (Ordered by Habib Al Adly - Former Egyptian Interior Minister) bombed a church in Alexandria and blamed it on "Islamists" in order to justify a brutal crackdown before the revolution that toppled Mubarak. All throughout that revolution and Morsi's rule the thugs continued to undermine security.

You and your wife are lying sacks of shit.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/22/muslim-brotherhood-bid-to-scapegoat-christians-failing-say-egyptians/


As their nation descends into violent chaos, Egyptians are increasingly blaming the Muslim Brotherhood, despite attempts by the Islamist group to scapegoat Christians and the military, according to several sources who spoke to FoxNews.com from Cairo.



A Muslim woman named Nina told FoxNews.com most citizens – Christian and Muslim - are solidly behind the military, which has been criticized by the west for its decisive crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood supporters.




“The Brotherhood lost everything, politically and economically,” Osama el-Quossi told MCN. “They lost the citizens’ sympathy, so they used religion to gain support of ordinary people.”

[jafar00]

Yet they are done by Muslims. Go figure.

Yet the Oklahoma Bombing, countless school massacres, and the Third Reich and other atrocities were committed by Christians.
Their religion doesn't get discussed as part of the puzzle though.
Go figure.

[Kathianne]

Yet the Oklahoma Bombing, countless school massacres, and the Third Reich and other atrocities were committed by Christians.
Their religion doesn't get discussed as part of the puzzle though.
Go figure.

Well, be they Christians or Pagans, you've covered both, the 'religion' aspect wasn't part of their motivations. That's the problem you bring. The folks you are attempting to defend and distance yourself from, all claim that Allah wills it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Yet the Oklahoma Bombing, countless school massacres, and the Third Reich and other atrocities were committed by Christians.
Their religion doesn't get discussed as part of the puzzle though.
Go figure.

Countless school massacres? Really? There have been so many you can't count? Wow, you must really be stupid to not be able to count the few there have been.Hi

Hitler may have been Catholic, but he never claimed anything he did was done in the name of God. Unlike Islamic terrorists who claim constantly that what they do is by Gods order, and yell Allahu Akbar when they blow themselves up. Same goes for the Oklahoma bombing.

Dumb ass.
Also, that's twice now you've whined about the holocaust, when you've previously said it never happened. Make up your dumb ass mind, will you?

[aboutime]

Countless school massacres? Really? There have been so many you can't count? Wow, you must really be stupid to not be able to count the few there have been.Hi

Hitler may have been Catholic, but he never claimed anything he did was done in the name of God. Unlike Islamic terrorists who claim constantly that what they do is by Gods order, and yell Allahu Akbar when they blow themselves up. Same goes for the Oklahoma bombing.

Dumb ass.
Also, that's twice now you've whined about the holocaust, when you've previously said it never happened. Make up your dumb ass mind, will you?



Marcus. We shouldn't forget how one of jafar's old Hero's was from Italy.

And was buddies with Adolph. How bout it jafar? Remember your friend 5412lately...?