Kass: Was police killing of 95-year-old necessary?

[Jeff]

This is a real shame, there is nothing I can think of that would cause 5 to 7 police officers to have to shoot a 95 year old man in a walker, this to me is a clear cut case of police brutality and I can't think of any thing the old man could of done that would warrant such actions, these police officer ought to be thrown in jail in gen pop and the other inmates ought to be told who they are and why they are there .

When John Wrana was a young man, fit and strong and fighting in World War II with the U.S. Army Air Corps, did he ever think he'd end this way?
Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-08-03/news/ct-met-kass-0802-20130803_1_butcher-type-kitchen-knife-park-forest-police-taser

[revelarts]

That is such a tragedy.
Sounds like it started because he didn't want to take some meds or "treatment" or something.
His right seems to me.
why the H3ll would anyone even think of Tazeing, much less shooting a 95 year man in the stomach with anything?
A man who they are trying to give MEDICAL ATTENTION?!

THOSE COPS NEED TO GO TO JAIL.

"But one senior police official who has trained police recruits in defensive tactics had a different take.
"When I first heard it, I was like, 'C'mon,'" he said. "Then I thought it through. We don't know what occurred. We don't know what information they had at that time. If you don't have all of the facts, it's hard to judge someone. … Anyone can be dangerous.""

95 year old men
8-11 year old school girls
Chihuahuas
Fawns



"Anyone can be dangerous."
Are some police really that pitiful now, that a tazer and a gun are an option on every occasion?

[red state]

I am usually long winded but I'm actually speechless!!! This is disgusting!!!! My grandfather was also a SGT in WWII. Army (jungle fighter)....before we had "special forces". Weren't all those guys back then SPECIAL though?!!!! And this is how the last few are treated.

I'm almost speechless but had to say what little I said without ranting on about what should be done to these cops. GOOD GOD!!!

[red state]

Yes, REV, the list could actually go FAR beyond the one you're collecting from recent threads. That cop who even remotely defended his PEERS should have been verbally attacked by anyone in the room when he said that. Anyone with common sense knows that the shields could have been used to EASILY disarm the old man (or any man) but it they can't disarm an elderly guy like that, they shouldn't have been on the force to begin with. They certainly shouldn't be on the force now and should (if there was any justice) be watching their SIX or going to jail!!! I lean more towards them watching their SIX.....until their SIX sneaks up on them one calm, peaceful morning.

We tranq bears and stuff.... are you telling me that they couldn't at least have tranqed the old lively hero?! They give hoodlums HOURs upon HOURS to surrender during a stand-off....they couldn't have done the same here?!

It is simply CRIMINAL!!!!

[Gaffer]

I read this earlier today. I was really surprised at how this went down. When I was a deputy two of us would have walked in, flanked him, took his arms and either cuffed him or put him on the ground to cuff him. This whole thing stinks and says to me the cops there are a bunch of wussies. Even if he had grabbed a knife, he could have been dealt with with a night stick. Those guys are pathetic.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I read this earlier today. I was really surprised at how this went down. When I was a deputy two of us would have walked in, flanked him, took his arms and either cuffed him or put him on the ground to cuff him. This whole thing stinks and says to me the cops there are a bunch of wussies. Even if he had grabbed a knife, he could have been dealt with with a night stick. Those guys are pathetic. We are seeing a damn lot of this kind of overreaction by cops. Are they being trained differently as of late. Maybe trained to be an Obama type goon squad or something? Cops can not disarm a man that old!!!?? That is if he was even armed? It stinks big time IMHO..-Tyr

[Gaffer]

There does seem to be an excessive amount of this stuff going on lately. What kind of training are these guys getting? Hell, I was trained how to disarm an individual with a gun using just my hands. They needed 7 guys with a tazer and a shotgun for one 95 year old man? They sure don't want to go up against me. And I'm an old fart.

[Jeff]

We are seeing a damn lot of this kind of overreaction by cops. Are they being trained differently as of late. Maybe trained to be an Obama type goon squad or something? Cops can not disarm a man that old!!!?? That is if he was even armed? It stinks big time IMHO..-Tyr


There does seem to be an excessive amount of this stuff going on lately. What kind of training are these guys getting? Hell, I was trained how to disarm an individual with a gun using just my hands. They needed 7 guys with a tazer and a shotgun for one 95 year old man? They sure don't want to go up against me. And I'm an old fart.

This is the first thing I thought of is this how ya build your own personal police force to get people to do what you want ? I once read a article that predicated Obama would make all guns or even certain guns illegal and put such a punishment on getting caught with them ( the article ) said it you would have a chance to say turn in you AK but after a certain date if caught with one in your home you would lose your home plus get like 20 years in prison, and then it went on to say how after one or two highly publicized cases you would have woman calling the police and turning in there husbands just so they didn't lose everything , at the time it sounded crazy but as of late we have seen people thrown out of there homes forcibly so the cops could search the homes ( Boston ) then there was the case where the police through people out of there own home to do surveillance , of course there was Bambi and now this, and I am sure there are many other stories just like these that have happened as of late, it is like we live in a police state , if they instill enough fear into Americans they wont have any problems, OOO yes the guy walking up in the mountains carrying his rifle was another story , things just seem to be going from bad to worse in a hurry

[Kathianne]

I spoke with my brother earlier on this, he was just so pissed. He is a retired deputy chief of police of a suburb of over 40k. Had 28 years in. He couldn't believe this happened and it seems cops from all over the 'burbs are calling one another about this.

His main points:

A riot shield in a nursing home? Not even 'overkill,' rather inappropriate use of equipment.

7-8 cops entering a room behind said shield? His contention is that no more than one or two, the best and calmest officers there should have entered, peacefully and conversationally. It was a time for 'speaking,' not action. Obviously the man was frightened, probably before the police were called, so he was in a panic. He should have been 'reassured,' not approached in an aggressive manner.

Tazing not effective? They didn't use correctly, though never should have been used. "No way a tazer didn't immobilize someone of that age and health."

Shotgun beanbag use? Again, shouldn't have even been considered in this scenario.

Park Forest is a southern suburb, it's blue collar middle class. I don't know the requirements of the police force, but they seem in this case, to be badly trained to say the least.

My brother told us many stories over the years, this one reminds me a bit of one. He was a sergeant at the time, still able to 'be on the street' from time-to-time. A call came in from a woman saying that people were coming out of her phone. She had a gun. That's a BIG deal in the town.

He told the patrolmen to cut the lights and sirens on the block, to come in quiet and wait for himself. He called in a psychologist to meet him. They knocked and identified themselves as the police. She opened the door, over 70 years old and probably 90 lbs. shaking. He asked her to show him the phone causing the problem, he asked to borrow her gun, she gave it to him. She took him to the phone in the library-the house was a mini-mansion, she lived alone.

He picked up the phone and loudly said, "Whomever you are, leave Mrs. so-so alone!" She was crying. He and the psychologist sat with her for a bit, asking how this started? Her daughter was supposed to come, but something happened and she called to say that she couldn't come until the next day. The woman forgot to take some meds. The psychologist asked her if she wouldn't feel safer in the hospital? She said she would.

Both my bro and this particular psychologist taught police science at Northwestern, they incorporated this case into their classes. Simple reason? Stress and medication mess ups can seriously cause the elderly to temporarily become mentally impaired. What's needed is reassurances. Now, if she had actually pointed the gun? Very different outcome, she had it to protect herself from the 'phone people,' not the police whom she'd called.

[Abbey Marie]

:( I really cannot think of an excuse for this behavior. What an awful end to this poor old man's life.