Big Brother is Watching.

[cadet]

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite




Government can grab cell phone location records without warrant, appeals court saysBy Michael Isikoff (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38395129/)NBC News National Investigative Correspondent
In a major victory for the Justice Department over privacy advocates, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that government agencies can collect records showing the location of an individual's cell phone without obtaining a warrant.
The 2-1 ruling by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans upheld the Justice Department's argument that "historical" records showing the location of cell phones, gleaned from cell site location towers, are not protected by the Fourth Amendment.
A key basis for the ruling: The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.
"The Government does not require a member of the public to own or carry a phone," wrote U.S. Judge Edith Brown Clement in an opinion joined by (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_U.S.%20news/US-news-PDFs/cell-phone-ruling.pdf)U.S. Judge Dennis Reavley. The opinion continued: "Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."
The issue of cell phone location data has become a major and increasingly contentious battleground in the privacy wars. Privacy advocates argue that the proliferation of cell phone towers in the U.S. – 285,561, according to the latest industry records, more than double the number 10 years ago – and new technologies, such as smartphones, permit law enforcement agents to track highly sensitive information about where individuals have been – their homes or trips to see doctors, friends or lovers – without making a showing to a judge that there is "probable cause" that a person has committed a crime.

Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.The debate has even touched on the National Security Agency's surveillance program: Director of National Intelligence James Clapper last week wrote a letter to Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden stating that the agency has "no current plans" to collect cell phone location data as part of its bulk collection of phone records.
But Wyden, a Democrat, has repeatedly asserted that the agency has the legal authority to do so, noting in a recent speech that "most of us have a computer in our pocket that potentially can be used to track and monitor us 24/7."
Tuesday’s ruling involved three cases in which unknown federal agencies applied for 60 days of cell site location data in three criminal investigations. But it is hardly the last word on the subject. The 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that federal judges may require warrants for such data, and the ACLU and other privacy groups this month filed a brief to the 4th Circuit urging that warrants be required for all such government requests.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite Insanity the reason given. The use of the U.S. Postal Service IS ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY TOO! HOW DOES THAT JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF PRIVACY, THE SPYING ON THE CITIZENS AND THE INCURSION UPON OUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH??


A key basis for the ruling: The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.

[cadet]

Insanity the reason given. The use of the U.S. Postal Service IS ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY TOO! HOW DOES THAT JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF PRIVACY, THE SPYING ON THE CITIZENS AND THE INCURSION UPON OUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH??

I know, right? It's almost impossible to get through today without a cell phone. And it's COMPLETELY wrong for them to think they can just set up shop in your life.
There's either going to be another civil war, a revolution, or all us smart people on the Right are going to leave, and the country can go to shit.

[Marcus Aurelius]

"Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."


Completely true... but to the cell phone service provider... NOT the federal government.

[fj1200]

Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite

All may not be lost.

Stored Communications Act
In United States v. Warshak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Warshak) (2010)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act#cite_note-Warshak2010-7) the Sixth Circuit found that email users have a Fourth Amendment-protected reasonable expectation of privacy in the contents of their email accounts and that "to the extent that the SCA purports to permit the government to obtain such emails warrantlessly, the SCA is unconstitutional."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act#cite_note-Warshak2010-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act#cite_note-8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act#Constitutionality_of_Com pelled_Government_Disclosure


Completely true... but to the cell phone service provider... NOT the federal government.

I'm surprised that they didn't fall back on the public's ownership of the cell phone spectrum.

[aboutime]

Why is anyone surprised with this announcement about Big Brother Watching?

This has been going on, probably longer than a large majority of the members here, have been alive.

Nothing new. Honestly. Nothing new.

The difference is. The FOIA and access to the Internet.

If you need a reminder as to the amount of Free Information out there.

Just type your own name and address in GOOGLE, or any other Search Engine.

You shouldn't be surprised, and this thread IS NOT SURPRISE...if anyone pays attention.

[cadet]

Why is anyone surprised with this announcement about Big Brother Watching?

This has been going on, probably longer than a large majority of the members here, have been alive.

Nothing new. Honestly. Nothing new.

The difference is. The FOIA and access to the Internet.

If you need a reminder as to the amount of Free Information out there.

Just type your own name and address in GOOGLE, or any other Search Engine.

You shouldn't be surprised, and this thread IS NOT SURPRISE...if anyone pays attention.



The point is, next step is them tapping in to your camera attached to your game system, and watching you get freaky with your wife in the living room.
Or actually watching you from your computer camera.
They can see where you are whenever they want.
And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.

that's freaking creepy.

[jafar00]

The Germans have been protesting in the thousands over the weekend against US spying. http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/protesters-in-germany-rally-against-us-spying-20130728-2qshf.html

Have any people in the US similarly protested for their constitutional rights?

[fj1200]

And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.

Not quite:



Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite (http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite)

There's a standard, albeit a low one, but it's there. The problem is laws written when technology was a fraction of where it is today and are eventually interpreted too broadly.

[aboutime]

The point is, next step is them tapping in to your camera attached to your game system, and watching you get freaky with your wife in the living room.
Or actually watching you from your computer camera.
They can see where you are whenever they want.
And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.

that's freaking creepy.


Still nothing new cadet. Everything you mentioned above IS ALREADY reality. It can, and is done. More than you, or I will ever know.

Big Brother is EVERYWHERE. Has been for a very long time. The Crooks have been watching for years. And the Politicians who want the information about their opposition, or political enemies have been active since....long before Nixon's Watergate adventure.

Nothing is impossible. If anyone has anything they want to hide. There is NO PLACE TO GO.

[revelarts]

The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.
"The Government does not require a member of the public to own or carry a phone," wrote U.S. Judge Edith Brown Clement in an opinion joined by (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_U.S.%20news/US-news-PDFs/cell-phone-ruling.pdf)U.S. Judge Dennis Reavley. The opinion continued: "Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."

well i guess,
since living is voluntary to therefore we have no right to privacy or life either?

Good thing breathing is involuntary. we might not have a right to that.

[revelarts]

when is the march on Washington over this !?

[fj1200]

when is the march on Washington over this !?

I wouldn't waste their ability to track my location via cell towers on this one. :poke:

[revelarts]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by cadet http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=655305#post655305)
And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.
Not quite:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by cadet http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=655261#post655261)
Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.


http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite (http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite)
There's a standard, albeit a low one, but it's there. The problem is laws written when technology was a fraction of where it is today and are eventually interpreted too broadly.
Yes, the problem is the laws were unconstitutional written.
and they are interpreted too broadly.
AND the fox is guarding the hen house on the bad law. There's NO external over sight.
No warrants means NO court will every have to know if they are doing it for any reason , including boredom.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

when is the march on Washington over this !?

If it is not some perverted leftist/lib issue like gay marriage, homosexual rights transgendered beastility crap, eco-Nazi , or black /illegal invader issue there will be no march! Only such extremely important issues warrant such a movement. Constitutional rights be damned! :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Yes, the problem is the laws were unconstitutional written.
and they are interpreted too broadly.
AND the fox is guarding the hen house on the bad law. There's NO external over sight.
No warrants means NO court will every have to know if they are doing it for any reason , including boredom.

I think you overstate a bit especially regards to there being no oversight. There is eventual oversight if charges are ever filed and police are already allowed to take some steps based on the same standard; Reasonable Suspicion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion). This is also one circuit having made the ruling while another disagrees and the ACLU is filing in yet another:


Tuesday’s ruling involved three cases in which unknown federal agencies applied for 60 days of cell site location data in three criminal investigations. But it is hardly the last word on the subject. The 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that federal judges may require warrants for such data, and the ACLU and other privacy groups this month filed a brief to the 4th Circuit urging that warrants be required for all such government requests.

[Nukeman]

when is the march on Washington over this !?Well unfortunately for those of us that care about these issues. We have to WORK to pay for the liberal morons that march for every other cause out there. Except of course the BIG issues like intrusive govt....