Good news if the brotherhood is destroyed in the new Egyptian struggle!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-arrests-more-islamists-eu-official-visits-122530194.html Egypt arrests more Islamists as EU official visits . .
http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/) <cite class="byline vcard top-line">AYA BATRAWY <abbr>1 hour ago</abbr> </cite> Politics & Government (http://news.yahoo.com/politics-and-government/)Cairo (http://www.yahoo.com/topic/cairo/)




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<!-- google_ad_section_start --> CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian police detained two leaders of a Muslim Brotherhood-allied party in the latest in a wave of arrests of prominent Islamists, while the European Union's top diplomat held talks Monday with officials in Cairo in an attempt to mediate an end to the country's crisis, officials said.
EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton's visit to the Egyptian capital is her second since the army ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi on July 3. The trip underscores the alarm felt in the West over the violence that has killed more than 260 people and all but dashed hopes of political reconciliation in the deeply divided country.
The bloodiest incident took place over the weekend, when security forces killed at least 83 Morsi supporters in clashes in Cairo. Human Rights Watch and field doctors interviewed by The Associated Press said many of the dead were killed by gunshots to the head and chest.
Security officials said Monday that a police captain died of wounds sustained during those clashes after being hit in the eye with birdshot from protesters. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media.
The weekend clashes, which the Brotherhood has described as a "massacre," came after millions took the streets to show their support for Defense Minister Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi. The mass turnout followed a call from el-Sissi for rallies to give him a mandate to deal with violence and "potential terrorism" — a thinly veiled reference to expected crackdowns on Morsi supporters who are holding sit-in camps in Cairo.
View gallery."
http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/niNOHt99rdNNC95If3CDow--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTIwMDtxPTg1O3c9MzAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/a1964e463ee5e719380f6a70670058d0.jpg
Supporters of Egypt's ousted President Mohammed Morsi chantsslogans against Egyptian Defense Ministe …
(http://news.yahoo.com/photos/supporters-egypts-ousted-president-mohammed-morsi-chantsslogans-against-photo-122530315.html)
The military pushed Morsi from power after days of mass protests by millions of Egyptians demanding that the president step down after a year in office.
The Brotherhood, from which Morsi hails, denounces the coup and has vowed to keep up its rallies until he is reinstated. The group has called for rallies outside security facilities on Monday evening during which they plan to carry empty coffins as a symbol of their dead. They have also called for mass protests Tuesday under the banner "Martyrs of the Coup," and have set up a tent a block away from their main sit-in to collect donations for those killed over the weekend. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great news if most of the Muslim Brotherhood is destroyed!!!!! -Tyr

[fj1200]

^Do recent actions by the Egyptian military make the administration's call on aid to them the correct call?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

^Do recent actions by the Egyptian military make the administration's call on aid to them the correct call? Not sure. Recent actions taken to oust the Muslim Brotherhood leader certainly point that way. If a true democratic government that does not install Sharia law there comes from this quite possibly that would be correct. We will need to see how things develop to make that call IMHO. If it turns out well, I'll be the first to say you were right. I always try to never deny truth and never deny reality... I hope you remember that Obama was giving all that monetary aid and military hardware while the ousted government was in charge. A not so small fact to consider too. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Not sure. Recent actions taken to oust the Muslim Brotherhood leader certainly point that way. If a true democratic government that does not install Sharia law there comes from this quite possibly that would be correct. We will need to see how things develop to make that call IMHO. If it turns out well, I'll be the first to say you were right. I always try to never deny truth and never deny reality... I hope you remember that Obama was giving all that monetary aid and military hardware while the ousted government was in charge. A not so small fact to consider too. -Tyr

But that's the point; Those who made an issue were in no position to ascertain the truth of that statement. It turns out that they really weren't in charge and possibly selling out the military would have given more power to the MB than if not.

[jafar00]

Sisi is just another military dictator. I take it Tyr that you approve of the massacre going on right now just as you approve of Assad killing over 100,000 of his own people? That puts you in the same boat as those who supported Hitler, Pol Pot....

Most people can see what is going on there. Ever since Mubarak was deposed, old regime forces have been in the background sowing discord, and causing trouble to discredit the government of Morsi. It has to be noted that as soon as Morsi was deposed, fuel shortages ended, food shortages ended, billions in aid flowed in from around the Middle East from countries still ruled by dictatorships, horrific sexual assaults in downtown Cairo suddenly stopped happening, power blackouts stopped happening etc... The new cabinet just sworn in is full of old regime people.

After many decades of rule, the old military regime perfectly executed a campaign of discrediting their opposition. Let them have 1-2 years and show them as a failure, kill people and use paid thugs to make a crime wave, and the people will want the old regime back.

The country is slowly disintegrating. Just the other day the owner of a Mu'min shop (Egyptian version of subway) was locked in his shop while it burned to the ground. His only crime was that he had a beard.

As my wife pointed out, it looks like there may be a civil war in the making.

[red state]

:lol: You may be on to something...such as what happens when a bunch of muSLUM dogs are ousted!!! Happy days are here again. You know something....we may have found all those REAL muSLUMS that you keep saying are out there (only, the "so-called" muSLUMS are truly the "normal" people who want their country back....and the tourism. Don't expect much tourism in slummy muSLUM nations. :mm:

[red state]

I expect with the muSLUM brotherhood dogs out of the way, the Christians and other religions will rest better at night or want have to pack it up and leave. Isn't is despicable how MOST muSLUM countries treat their fellow man (who simply see things differently)!?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sisi is just another military dictator. I take it Tyr that you approve of the massacre going on right now just as you approve of Assad killing over 100,000 of his own people? That puts you in the same boat as those who supported Hitler, Pol Pot....

Most people can see what is going on there. Ever since Mubarak was deposed, old regime forces have been in the background sowing discord, and causing trouble to discredit the government of Morsi. It has to be noted that as soon as Morsi was deposed, fuel shortages ended, food shortages ended, billions in aid flowed in from around the Middle East from countries still ruled by dictatorships, horrific sexual assaults in downtown Cairo suddenly stopped happening, power blackouts stopped happening etc... The new cabinet just sworn in is full of old regime people.

After many decades of rule, the old military regime perfectly executed a campaign of discrediting their opposition. Let them have 1-2 years and show them as a failure, kill people and use paid thugs to make a crime wave, and the people will want the old regime back.

The country is slowly disintegrating. Just the other day the owner of a Mu'min shop (Egyptian version of subway) was locked in his shop while it burned to the ground. His only crime was that he had a beard.

As my wife pointed out, it looks like there may be a civil war in the making.
Sure thing Jafar, I remember your strong earth shattering condemnations when they were massacring all those Coptic Christians! Before you try to point out that splinter in my eye you had better remove the rather large plank from yours..--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

But that's the point; Those who made an issue were in no position to ascertain the truth of that statement. It turns out that they really weren't in charge and possibly selling out the military would have given more power to the MB than if not. Here is one of my old posts . I think that I had a pretty good grasp of what was going on very early on myself. -Tyr
04-14-2013, 06:50 PM #1 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40231-Who-Will-the-Muslim-Brotherhood-Heed-Allah-or-Tom-Friedman-(and-such-people)-No-Con&p=631272#post631272) http://www.debatepolicy.com/image.php?u=2275&dateline=1344800665 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?2275-Tyr-Ziu-Saxnot)Tyr-Ziu Saxnot (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?2275-Tyr-Ziu-Saxnot)

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http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/icons/icon1.png Who Will the Muslim Brotherhood Heed: Allah or Tom Friedman (and such people)? No Con
http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2013/0...le-no-contest/ (http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2013/02/26/who-will-the-muslim-brotherhood-heed-allah-or-tom-friedman-and-such-people-no-contest/)

Sigh. I really don’t want to write this article, but we have too good a case study of contemporary Western foreign policy reporting, debate, and elite attitudes toward international affairs to ignore. Doing a better job here is vital, as this task involves the fate of millions of people, matters of war and peace, the most basic interests of the United States, and the decency of intellectual discourse.
I refer, of course, to Thomas L. Friedman’s latest effort: “The Belly Dancing Barometer (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/opinion/friedman-the-belly-dancing-barometer.html).” (Tens of millions of lives are at stake — that’s worth a flippant title and goofy concept, right?)
Friedman writes:

Since the start of the 2011 revolution in Tahrir Square, every time the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood faced a choice of whether to behave in an inclusive way or grab more power, true to its Bolshevik tendencies it grabbed more power and sacrificed inclusion. [President] Morsi’s power grab will haunt him.
The Brotherhood needs to understand that its version of political Islam — which is resistant to women’s empowerment and religious and political pluralism — might be sustainable if you are Iran or Saudi Arabia, and you have huge reserves of oil and gas to buy off all the contradictions between your ideology and economic growth. But if you are Egypt, you need to be as open to the world and modernity as possible to unleash all of the potential for growth.
So, let me get this straight.
Friedman is saying that you cannot trust the Brotherhood, as it seeks total power and is anti-democratic.
Hmm: what’s Friedman been saying the last two years? Well, he has been an apologist for the Brotherhood, a cheerleader for the course taken by the “Arab Spring,” and has constantly insisted that the “democratic” revolution is going well. Indeed, in January 2012 I wrote an analysis of Friedman’s coverage titled: “Friedman Cheers as Egyptians are Enslaved.” (http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/01/11/friedman-cheers-as-egyptians-are-enslaved/)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see these dumb asses can see no further than the nose on their silly little faces. Got the entire Arab spring movement all wrong by calling it a democracy/freedom movement. When it was just as I stated right from the start a muslim consolidation movement. Taking out dictators that refused to allow Islam and Sharia law to rule in their respective nations.
Now we have one of its big cheerleaders aghast at that very thing being what has now happened! While I , just an ordinary American citizens, knew and stated right away it was all about establishing muslim control in those nations. -Tyr




"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively or to the people." (Amendment 10, United States Constitution). Federal government ignores this now!


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The Following User Says Thank You to Tyr-Ziu Saxnot For This Useful Post:
Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) (04-15-2013)

[fj1200]

Here is one of my old posts . I think that I had a pretty good grasp of what was going on very early on myself. -Tyr

That was on point how?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That was on point how? If you have to ask, then I guess I can't help you .. I mean it's kinda like asking which end of a gun to hold when firing it....I seriously doubt that you are truly that clueless. -Tyr

[fj1200]

If you have to ask, then I guess I can't help you .. I mean it's kinda like asking which end of a gun to hold when firing it....I seriously doubt that you are truly that clueless. -Tyr

Mayhap if you could quote worth a darn, separate out your words from the article, and expand beyond your typical rhetoric I could discern the intent of your words as it relates to the question I asked and whether supporting the military strengthened our hand.

[fj1200]

Sisi is just another military dictator. I take it Tyr that you approve of the massacre going on right now just as you approve of Assad killing over 100,000 of his own people? That puts you in the same boat as those who supported Hitler, Pol Pot....

Most people can see what is going on there. Ever since Mubarak was deposed, old regime forces have been in the background sowing discord, and causing trouble to discredit the government of Morsi. It has to be noted that as soon as Morsi was deposed, fuel shortages ended, food shortages ended, billions in aid flowed in from around the Middle East from countries still ruled by dictatorships, horrific sexual assaults in downtown Cairo suddenly stopped happening, power blackouts stopped happening etc... The new cabinet just sworn in is full of old regime people.

After many decades of rule, the old military regime perfectly executed a campaign of discrediting their opposition. Let them have 1-2 years and show them as a failure, kill people and use paid thugs to make a crime wave, and the people will want the old regime back.

The country is slowly disintegrating. Just the other day the owner of a Mu'min shop (Egyptian version of subway) was locked in his shop while it burned to the ground. His only crime was that he had a beard.

As my wife pointed out, it looks like there may be a civil war in the making.

How do you square your post above with one you've made previous:


Morsi has been a failure of a President. I agree they should get money but give it to the charities who have been doing good on limited resources already.

I don't know what the military was doing in the background but it's pretty clear that Morsi and the MB were in no position to govern effectively. The people of Egypt are not going to be in a position to grow and develop as long as they are kept back economically. Mubarak was awful but it appears the MB was even worse.

[jafar00]

I don't know what the military was doing in the background but it's pretty clear that Morsi and the MB were in no position to govern effectively. The people of Egypt are not going to be in a position to grow and develop as long as they are kept back economically. Mubarak was awful but it appears the MB was even worse.

Morsi wasn't the best President, but like I said, things like fuel and food shortages caused by former regime meddling miraculously disappeared as soon as Morsi was taken into custody. The MB was up against sabotage the whole time.

Now the Jan 25th revolution appears to have been for nothing. The old regime is back.

[fj1200]

Morsi wasn't the best President, but like I said, things like fuel and food shortages caused by former regime meddling miraculously disappeared as soon as Morsi was taken into custody. The MB was up against sabotage the whole time.

Now the Jan 25th revolution appears to have been for nothing. The old regime is back.

I'm guessing that the dwindling of foreign reserves was not former regime meddling but do you doubt their commitment to remaining an interim government?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-arrests-more-islamists-eu-official-visits-122530194.html Egypt arrests more Islamists as EU official visits . .
http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/) <cite class="byline vcard top-line">AYA BATRAWY <abbr>1 hour ago</abbr> </cite> Politics & Government (http://news.yahoo.com/politics-and-government/)Cairo (http://www.yahoo.com/topic/cairo/)




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<!-- google_ad_section_start --> CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian police detained two leaders of a Muslim Brotherhood-allied party in the latest in a wave of arrests of prominent Islamists, while the European Union's top diplomat held talks Monday with officials in Cairo in an attempt to mediate an end to the country's crisis, officials said.
EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton's visit to the Egyptian capital is her second since the army ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi on July 3. The trip underscores the alarm felt in the West over the violence that has killed more than 260 people and all but dashed hopes of political reconciliation in the deeply divided country.
The bloodiest incident took place over the weekend, when security forces killed at least 83 Morsi supporters in clashes in Cairo. Human Rights Watch and field doctors interviewed by The Associated Press said many of the dead were killed by gunshots to the head and chest.
Security officials said Monday that a police captain died of wounds sustained during those clashes after being hit in the eye with birdshot from protesters. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media.
The weekend clashes, which the Brotherhood has described as a "massacre," came after millions took the streets to show their support for Defense Minister Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi. The mass turnout followed a call from el-Sissi for rallies to give him a mandate to deal with violence and "potential terrorism" — a thinly veiled reference to expected crackdowns on Morsi supporters who are holding sit-in camps in Cairo.
View gallery."
http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/niNOHt99rdNNC95If3CDow--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTIwMDtxPTg1O3c9MzAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/a1964e463ee5e719380f6a70670058d0.jpg
Supporters of Egypt's ousted President Mohammed Morsi chantsslogans against Egyptian Defense Ministe …
(http://news.yahoo.com/photos/supporters-egypts-ousted-president-mohammed-morsi-chantsslogans-against-photo-122530315.html)
The military pushed Morsi from power after days of mass protests by millions of Egyptians demanding that the president step down after a year in office.
The Brotherhood, from which Morsi hails, denounces the coup and has vowed to keep up its rallies until he is reinstated. The group has called for rallies outside security facilities on Monday evening during which they plan to carry empty coffins as a symbol of their dead. They have also called for mass protests Tuesday under the banner "Martyrs of the Coup," and have set up a tent a block away from their main sit-in to collect donations for those killed over the weekend. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great news if most of the Muslim Brotherhood is destroyed!!!!! -Tyr Great news is the military there has issued --shoot to kill orders-- on the Muslim Brotherhood scum. LET'S HOPE THE SCUM COME OUT IN FULL FORCE TO RECEIVE THIER JUST REWARDS.-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Mayhap if you could quote worth a darn, separate out your words from the article, and expand beyond your typical rhetoric I could discern the intent of your words as it relates to the question I asked and whether supporting the military strengthened our hand. Well then you should have no problem ciphering out my typical rhetoric. After that your problem seems to be in reading comprehension . I've not seen any evidence that others here have problem with understanding my views made and stand on issues. If its only you what can I say? Other than, "pay attention son , I say pay attention." in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice. - :laugh:-Tyr

[fj1200]

Well then you should have no problem ciphering out my typical rhetoric. After that your problem seems to be in reading comprehension . I've not seen any evidence that others here have problem with understanding my views made and stand on issues. If its only you what can I say? Other than, "pay attention son , I say pay attention." in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice. - :laugh:-Tyr

I never said I didn't understand them, it's not like you're subtle or anything, the problem lies in being able to convert your typical rhetoric into something that conveys understanding.

[jafar00]

Great news is the military there has issued --shoot to kill orders-- on the Muslim Brotherhood scum. LET'S HOPE THE SCUM COME OUT IN FULL FORCE TO RECEIVE THIER JUST REWARDS.-Tyr

I have to wonder if you would be so supportive if your govt issued shoot to kill orders against US citizens in protests. This is unacceptable in a civil society. The Egyptians originally protest to remove a brutal dictator in order to gain freedom. If the MB failed at one thing, it was failing to completely remove old regime remnants from positions of power and influence. The old dictator is back. Only his name is different.

[fj1200]

I have to wonder if you would be so supportive if your govt issued shoot to kill orders against US citizens in protests. This is unacceptable in a civil society. The Egyptians originally protest to remove a brutal dictator in order to gain freedom. If the MB failed at one thing, it was failing to completely remove old regime remnants from positions of power and influence. The old dictator is back. Only his name is different.

Oh I think they failed at more than that, they reached for far more than was desired by most IMO. Do you think they would have taken the same action against a more reasonable government?

[logroller]

Great news is the military there has issued --shoot to kill orders-- on the Muslim Brotherhood scum. LET'S HOPE THE SCUM COME OUT IN FULL FORCE TO RECEIVE THIER JUST REWARDS.-Tyr
That definitely resembles iron-fist dictatorship style of governing and not democracy and civility.

[jimnyc]

The Brotherhood immediately made a power grab and tried to change the constitution. They screwed themselves within days. I'm not saying they deserve to die, but a removal from office for their actions was the correct action, IMO. They wanted to make themselves untouchable and Morsi trying to outlaw changes to his authority.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I never said I didn't understand them, it's not like you're subtle or anything, the problem lies in being able to convert your typical rhetoric into something that conveys understanding. With your constant opposition to my posts I think you have-- converted-- enough to cipher out your opinion on it all. And Jethro good job ciphering but adding 2+2 to get 7 doesn't indicate you are on the correct path. Methinks you greatly underestimate me as much as you greatly underestimate my good friend Drummond. For you peg him to be a big government type when he is not. Just like I am not a Southern redneck hick that you apparently think me to be. I dare say that I am more well read than anybody here since I have a huge library that I have read about 98% of the books I've collected in 44 years of collecting. Started collecting books at age 15... Have averaged reading anywhere from 40 to 60 books a year for well over 35 years now(only recently slowed down---heart attack ) . Have all of them still aside from about 240 that my first ex-wife tossed (out of spite) when we were getting a divorce, that was before I changed the locks.. I sell a few of my guns before I do any of my books or bows when needing some ready cash.. No brag just fact.. This 'ole Southern boy ciphers pretty good too, Hoss. :laugh: -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That definitely resembles iron-fist dictatorship style of governing and not democracy and civility. Actually not if the Muslim Brotherhood is the Islamic terrorist group that many declare it is. Certainly not if they come out fighting. There is nothing honorable about them and their goals. Defending against their violence would not be iron fisted governing IMHO. Now my wishing they would make a huge fight out of it may be appalling to some but the way I see it is they are an Islamic terrorist group that should be destroyed. A little research into their history may yield surprising results for you amigo.--Tyr

[jafar00]

Oh I think they failed at more than that, they reached for far more than was desired by most IMO. Do you think they would have taken the same action against a more reasonable government?

Sure they failed at other things, but having former regime elements chipping away at them from the inside didn't help.


That definitely resembles iron-fist dictatorship style of governing and not democracy and civility.

Exactly.

[fj1200]

And Jethro good job ciphering but adding 2+2 to get 7 doesn't indicate you are on the correct path. Methinks you greatly underestimate me as much as you greatly underestimate my good friend Drummond. For you peg him to be a big government type when he is not. Just like I am not a Southern redneck hick that you apparently think me to be.

I think I've got you guys pegged, the argument for the power of the State over the individual (2) plus declaration of individuals as subhuman (2) that clearly adds up to classic big government (4)... of the worst kind IMO.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think I've got you guys pegged, the argument for the power of the State over the individual (2) plus declaration of individuals as subhuman (2) that clearly adds up to classic big government (4)... of the worst kind IMO. .....................Well you see that is where you first went wrong! When you said, "I think" because clearly you did not think. Both big D and I rail viciously against the big government monster that we have here in USA. I do so a bit more than he because I live here and am far more affected by it.
He does so about the Brit government and somehow you miss it or just ignore it. The guy is conservative and patriotic and perhaps that is what you object to the most about him. I suspect me you dislike simply because I take no shat off anybody and so often speak the naked, cold hard truth. Got to give ya the dunce cap for that post and tell ya to go sit in the corner...;)--Tyr

[fj1200]

.....................Well you see that is where you first went wrong! When you said, "I think" because clearly you did not think. Both big D and I rail viciously against the big government monster that we have here in USA. I do so a bit more than he because I live here and am far more affected by it.
He does so about the Brit government and somehow you miss it or just ignore it. The guy is conservative and patriotic and perhaps that is what you object to the most about him. I suspect me you dislike simply because I take no shat off anybody and so often speak the naked, cold hard truth. Got to give ya the dunce cap for that post and tell ya to go sit in the corner...;)--Tyr

Yes, you two rail against big government that you don't like and you argue for big government that you do like. It's not like I "think" I'm making up the posts that you guys put up, I read them and draw logical conclusions. Also, I don't recall saying I don't like either of you, it's true that the "leftie" crutch gets old but that's part of your charm, :rolleyes: and I have no problem with genuine conservatism and patriotism.

[Gaffer]

Like Tyr said, look up the history of the MB. They are a terrorist group and have been since their inception. Their goal is to create a caliphate in the middle east and then expand it throughout the world. They used the new democracy in Egypt to grab power there. They over grabbed and the people revolted. The military there has been the only thing that has kept them in check. The military crack down is not against the Egyptian people, it is against the brotherhood.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Like Tyr said, look up the history of the MB. They are a terrorist group and have been since their inception. Their goal is to create a caliphate in the middle east and then expand it throughout the world. They used the new democracy in Egypt to grab power there. They over grabbed and the people revolted. The military there has been the only thing that has kept them in check. The military crack down is not against the Egyptian people, it is against the brotherhood. Dead on target my friend. Far too many defend the MB without even knowing it's history or it's goals! Its not enough to just ignore such terrorist groups they must also be vigorously opposed and never aided! People having far too little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. THE MB ONLY GOT IN THIS TROUBLE BECAUSE THEY SO VASTLY OVER REACHED! Now that they are in dire straits would be a damn good time to try to destroy them IMHO. YET OBAMA WILL TRY HIS BEST TO SAVE THEM! --Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yes, you two rail against big government that you don't like and you argue for big government that you do like. It's not like I "think" I'm making up the posts that you guys put up, I read them and draw logical conclusions. Also, I don't recall saying I don't like either of you, it's true that the "leftie" crutch gets old but that's part of your charm, :rolleyes: and I have no problem with genuine conservatism and patriotism. Sure I stand up for the Constitutional government that I do like and rail against the anti-Constitutional government that I EVER SO DEARLY HATE. I see nothing wrong with that and by the way its called patriotism......;),, give it a try sometime...Tyr

[fj1200]

Dead on target my friend. Far too many defend the MB without even knowing it's history or it's goals! Its not enough to just ignore such terrorist groups they must also be vigorously opposed and never aided! People having far too little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. THE MB ONLY GOT IN THIS TROUBLE BECAUSE THEY SO VASTLY OVER REACHED! Now that they are in dire straits would be a damn good time to try to destroy them IMHO. YET OBAMA WILL TRY HIS BEST TO SAVE THEM! --Tyr

Who has defended the MB? Outside of Jafar.


Sure I stand up for the Constitutional government that I do like and rail against the anti-Constitutional government that I EVER SO DEARLY HATE. I see nothing wrong with that and by the way its called patriotism......;),, give it a try sometime...Tyr

Is that just like when you argued for "anti-constitutional" entitlement spending.