France veil row sparks Trappes unrest .

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europhttp://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68864000/jpg/_68864120_018710623-1.jpg Riot police reinforcements were drafted in to protect Trappes police station
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770)Continue reading the main story (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#story_continues_1)
Crowds of youths have thrown stones at French police and set fire to cars in a second night of disturbances in the Paris suburb of Trappes.
The trouble was sparked by the arrest of a man whose wife was told by police on Thursday to remove an Islamic face-covering veil, banned in public.
He has been accused of trying to strangle the officer.
Up to 300 people attacked a police station in Trappes on Friday night where the man was being held.
One leading Muslim group disputed the authorities' version of events, blaming police "provocation".
The suspect, described as a Muslim convert aged 21, was later released on Saturday pending an appearance in court, French media say.
The ban on wearing the full face veil in public was introduced in April 2011 with the threat of a financial penalty for not observing it.
'Beginning to spread' Reinforcements from the CRS riot police were drafted in and Interior Minister Manuel Valls said they would remain in place until calm was restored. Thirty riot police vehicles were seen outside the Trappes police station.
In the latest violence which erupted in Trappes and several neighbouring areas, bus-shelters and cars were torched and fireworks directed at police, who responded with tear gas and baton charges.
The worst of the trouble took place in the early hours of Sunday. In one reported incident, a car was driven at police but no-one was hurt.
"It's beginning to spread to surrounding areas - Elancourt and Guyancourt," David Callu of the SGP police officers' union told BFM-TV news channel.
Four people were arrested and 20 cars burned, Mr Valls said in a statement.
Tensions in France's high-immigration city suburbs continue to fester, the BBC's Paris correspondent Hugh Schofield reports.
Although there has been no sustained unrest since the 2005 riots, sporadic violence is far from rare, he adds.
In 2005, a state of emergency was imposed when a wave of rioting spread across France, sparked by the deaths of two teenagers in a Paris suburb.
e-23395770 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we have it folks, they engage in violence when their way is not allowed . They insist their religious law must be allowed even against the rights and laws of the host nation! That is take over by any definition of the word. That is conquering when you enforce your laws and customs over all other. And that is what they always seek to do. When people stand up and say no, they start the killing and terror attacks. So obvious that Islam is a menace to the entire world yet the appeasers will defend them until they cut their damn stupid heads off too. -Tyr http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770

[jafar00]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off.

[tailfins]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off.

Many jurisdictions in the US would have arrested her. A female police officer would have removed her veil, perhaps at the criminal booking facility. She would have then had to deal with a criminal record. Under equal protection, if a female Muslim can wear a veil, a Klansman can wear a hood or a gang banger can wear a ski mask. The law in the US involves the prohibition of identity concealing clothing. I'm opposed to singling out a religion, but the laws prohibiting identity concealing clothing have nothing to do with religion.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off. So a face covering is clothes!????? Most people call that a mask or veil. Yet you say you'd hit an officer for removing a veil from your wife's face. So are you now admitting that you force your wife to wear a veil? Admitting that you'd break the law by assaulting a police officer if they forced your wife to remove her veil is
you admitting how radical you truly are Jafar! Yet you often condemn other muslims and declare them not --true muslims-- for their violent and radical actions! Your wife has no legal right to hide her face not here nor in Australia as far as I know.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off.

Perhaps the NATIVE population of France, that's to say, French men and women identifying with Western values, would rather NOT FEEL ALIENATED IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY ??

Chew on that one, Jafar.

Now tell me of how overwhelmingly accepting of Western values, Islamic Middle Eastern countries 'are' !!

[Trigg]

Perhaps the NATIVE population of France, that's to say, French men and women identifying with Western values, would rather NOT FEEL ALIENATED IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY ??

Chew on that one, Jafar.

Now tell me of how overwhelmingly accepting of Western values, Islamic Middle Eastern countries 'are' !!

ask that question of the poor woman who was fired from her job and thrown in jail for being raped in Dubai.

[Drummond]

So a face covering is clothes!????? Most people call that a mask or veil. Yet you say you'd hit an officer for removing a veil from your wife's face. So are you now admitting that you force your wife to wear a veil? Admitting that you'd break the law by assaulting a police officer if they forced your wife to remove her veil is
you admitting how radical you truly are Jafar! Yet you often condemn other muslims and declare them not --true muslims-- for their violent and radical actions! Your wife has no legal right to hide her face not here nor in Australia as far as I know.. -Tyr:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tyr-Ziu Saxnot again.]

[jafar00]

Many jurisdictions in the US would have arrested her. A female police officer would have removed her veil, perhaps at the criminal booking facility. She would have then had to deal with a criminal record. Under equal protection, if a female Muslim can wear a veil, a Klansman can wear a hood or a gang banger can wear a ski mask. The law in the US involves the prohibition of identity concealing clothing. I'm opposed to singling out a religion, but the laws prohibiting identity concealing clothing have nothing to do with religion.

What law is broken if a women chooses to wear a veil?


Perhaps the NATIVE population of France, that's to say, French men and women identifying with Western values, would rather NOT FEEL ALIENATED IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY ??

Chew on that one, Jafar.

Now tell me of how overwhelmingly accepting of Western values, Islamic Middle Eastern countries 'are' !!

Why do you feel threatened by a woman wearing modest clothing? Would forcing all women to wear string bikinis be ok for you?

Perve...


ask that question of the poor woman who was fired from her job and thrown in jail for being raped in Dubai.

Not relevant. Besides, I read that story. She signed a confession saying that she committed a crime. She should have consulted legal advice before signing. Also only 1 in 20 reports of this failed to mention her attackers were also charged and jailed and not one website reveals who they are. Not that I agree with how the police dealt with the case, but she wasn't very clever about it.

[tailfins]

What law is broken if a women chooses to wear a veil?

Here is one example, there are several others:


2006 Georgia Code - 16-11-3816-11-38. (a) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he wears a mask, hood, or device by which any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer and is upon any public way or public property or upon the private property of another without the written permission of the owner or occupier of the property to do so. (b) This Code section shall not apply to: (1) A person wearing a traditional holiday costume on the occasion of the holiday; (2) A person lawfully engaged in trade and employment or in a sporting activity where a mask is worn for the purpose of ensuring the physical safety of the wearer, or because of the nature of the occupation, trade, or profession, or sporting activity; (3) A person using a mask in a theatrical production including use in Mardi gras celebrations and masquerade balls; or (4) A person wearing a gas mask prescribed in emergency management drills and exercises or emergencies.

[Gaffer]

What law is broken if a women chooses to wear a veil?



Why do you feel threatened by a woman wearing modest clothing? Would forcing all women to wear string bikinis be ok for you?

Perve...



Not relevant. Besides, I read that story. She signed a confession saying that she committed a crime. She should have consulted legal advice before signing. Also only 1 in 20 reports of this failed to mention her attackers were also charged and jailed and not one website reveals who they are. Not that I agree with how the police dealt with the case, but she wasn't very clever about it.

In France it's illegal to wear a veil in public, therefore she broke the law.

Dressing modestly and covering your self from head to toe are to different things.

You read a story that she signed a confession? This is dubai. You think the islamic police are not going to coerce or trick her into signing such a thing. By the way that's the second western women raped in dubai and charged criminally for being a victim. don't you get it into your islamic mind that it's the attacker only that goes to jail in a rape case, not the victim too.

[jafar00]

Here is one example, there are several others:

To paraphrase Bush, "they" hate you for your freedoms? Someone should let "them" know you don't have any of those any more.


You read a story that she signed a confession? This is dubai. You think the islamic police are not going to coerce or trick her into signing such a thing. By the way that's the second western women raped in dubai and charged criminally for being a victim. don't you get it into your islamic mind that it's the attacker only that goes to jail in a rape case, not the victim too.

I have no doubt the Dubai police are corrupt. Since she signed a confession that she engaged in extramarital sex and was also drunk, she was jailed for those reasons, not for being raped.
The police were wrong, and she was dumb.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

To paraphrase Bush, "they" hate you for your freedoms? Someone should let "them" know you don't have any of those any more.



I have no doubt the Dubai police are corrupt. Since she signed a confession that she engaged in extramarital sex and was also drunk, she was jailed for those reasons, not for being raped.
The police were wrong, and she was dumb. She went to the authorities with a rape accusation. How was she to know that Islamists punish the victim?? By your reasoning and that of Sharia law the man bears no responsibility. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of rape! And stop with the freaking word games.. You may be clever but not clever enough to excuse rape and make us agree the victim was at fault. This is your way of trying to excuse what the attacker did and lay blame on her. Its both dishonest and cheap Jafar.... --Tyr

[tailfins]

To paraphrase Bush, "they" hate you for your freedoms? Someone should let "them" know you don't have any of those any more.

Many of us are keenly aware American freedoms are under assault, there seems to be the beginning of a majority realizing that. You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth when you mourn laws against concealing identity in public while advocating stricter speech and gun laws. You're either for liberty or you're against it, not just when it suits you.

[jimnyc]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off.

I think it was in another thread about a month ago where it was you yourself talking about respecting the laws of a nation, whether it's living there or just visiting. Even here in the States not everyone agrees with every law in every state. If these people don't like it, work to change it - or move.

[jimnyc]

What law is broken if a women chooses to wear a veil?

I'll be honest, speaking of areas where you rarely see the face coverings - it would make me uncomfortable if an entire face was covered. In this day and age, with so much violence and terrorism, I want to see a person, and not see them hiding, even if for modesty reasons.

Just a few years back there was a woman here who sued because the DMV wanted her to remove her veil for her drivers license picture, and she refused and then sued. WTF? How the hell are the police supposed to identify her if they pull her over or need to speak with her for another reason? You don't get to hide who you are, even indirectly, just because of your religion.

I suppose there are times I wouldn't care - going to religious services or being places with family. But if a woman is driving or doing anything at all where identification would be necessary, I truly don't believe veils should be allowed. It would also be a great way for a man to dress if he wanted to go incognito just prior to blowing something up.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The ban is a stupid one. By forcing women to remove it they have alienated an entire section of the community. It forces many of these women to just stay home, never to go out because of the fear they will be arrested and fined just because they choose to wear a veil. I would have punched the police officer too if I found him trying to rip my wife's clothes off.

So again, you're saying Sharia Law should supersede common law.

Dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Trigg http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=653285#post653285)

ask that question of the poor woman who was fired from her job and thrown in jail for being raped in Dubai.





Not relevant. Besides, I read that story. She signed a confession saying that she committed a crime. She should have consulted legal advice before signing. Also only 1 in 20 reports of this failed to mention her attackers were also charged and jailed and not one website reveals who they are. Not that I agree with how the police dealt with the case, but she wasn't very clever about it.

Please link to all 20 sources you mentioned above.

Oh, the poor woman who was raped 'wasn't very clever about it'. Fucking pedophile worshipping dumb ass.

[Larrymc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europhttp://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68864000/jpg/_68864120_018710623-1.jpg Riot police reinforcements were drafted in to protect Trappes police station
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770)Continue reading the main story (http://www.debatepolicy.com/#story_continues_1)
Crowds of youths have thrown stones at French police and set fire to cars in a second night of disturbances in the Paris suburb of Trappes.
The trouble was sparked by the arrest of a man whose wife was told by police on Thursday to remove an Islamic face-covering veil, banned in public.
He has been accused of trying to strangle the officer.
Up to 300 people attacked a police station in Trappes on Friday night where the man was being held.
One leading Muslim group disputed the authorities' version of events, blaming police "provocation".
The suspect, described as a Muslim convert aged 21, was later released on Saturday pending an appearance in court, French media say.
The ban on wearing the full face veil in public was introduced in April 2011 with the threat of a financial penalty for not observing it.
'Beginning to spread' Reinforcements from the CRS riot police were drafted in and Interior Minister Manuel Valls said they would remain in place until calm was restored. Thirty riot police vehicles were seen outside the Trappes police station.
In the latest violence which erupted in Trappes and several neighbouring areas, bus-shelters and cars were torched and fireworks directed at police, who responded with tear gas and baton charges.
The worst of the trouble took place in the early hours of Sunday. In one reported incident, a car was driven at police but no-one was hurt.
"It's beginning to spread to surrounding areas - Elancourt and Guyancourt," David Callu of the SGP police officers' union told BFM-TV news channel.
Four people were arrested and 20 cars burned, Mr Valls said in a statement.
Tensions in France's high-immigration city suburbs continue to fester, the BBC's Paris correspondent Hugh Schofield reports.
Although there has been no sustained unrest since the 2005 riots, sporadic violence is far from rare, he adds.
In 2005, a state of emergency was imposed when a wave of rioting spread across France, sparked by the deaths of two teenagers in a Paris suburb.
e-23395770 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we have it folks, they engage in violence when their way is not allowed . They insist their religious law must be allowed even against the rights and laws of the host nation! That is take over by any definition of the word. That is conquering when you enforce your laws and customs over all other. And that is what they always seek to do. When people stand up and say no, they start the killing and terror attacks. So obvious that Islam is a menace to the entire world yet the appeasers will defend them until they cut their damn stupid heads off too. -Tyr http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23395770This is what happens when there numbers get high enough, They trickle in to country's until then, The USA is getting there,

[Marcus Aurelius]

Not relevant. Besides, I read that story. She signed a confession saying that she committed a crime. She should have consulted legal advice before signing. Also only 1 in 20 reports of this failed to mention her attackers were also charged and jailed and not one website reveals who they are. Not that I agree with how the police dealt with the case, but she wasn't very clever about it.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/22/uae-pardons-woman-jailed-after-reporting-alleged-rape/?test=latestnews



A Norwegian woman at the center of a Dubai rape claim dispute said Sunday that officials have dropped her 16-month sentence for having sex outside marriage and she is free to leave the country.


The sentence against the 24-year-old Dalelv last week stirred widespread outrage in the West and highlighted the frequent clash between Dubai's Western-friendly image and its Islamic-based legal codes.


Dalelv claimed she was raped in March by a co-worker, but she was charged with having sex outside marriage after going to the police. Her decision to go public about the sentence last week in a series of interviews appeared to put pressure on authorities in Dubai and tarnish the city's reputation as a cosmopolitan hub.

YOU told us Sharia Law only applied to Muslims... That non-Muslims were not bound by it and could not be punished by it.

So much for that bullshit.

[tailfins]

I'll be honest, speaking of areas where you rarely see the face coverings - it would make me uncomfortable if an entire face was covered. In this day and age, with so much violence and terrorism, I want to see a person, and not see them hiding, even if for modesty reasons.

Just a few years back there was a woman here who sued because the DMV wanted her to remove her veil for her drivers license picture, and she refused and then sued. WTF? How the hell are the police supposed to identify her if they pull her over or need to speak with her for another reason? You don't get to hide who you are, even indirectly, just because of your religion.

I suppose there are times I wouldn't care - going to religious services or being places with family. But if a woman is driving or doing anything at all where identification would be necessary, I truly don't believe veils should be allowed. It would also be a great way for a man to dress if he wanted to go incognito just prior to blowing something up.

I can see both sides of the hiding of identity in public issue. However, if Jafar wants Muslim women to have the freedom to wear a veil, he must pay the price of tolerating Klansmen that wear hoods. You either have a freedom or you don't.

[aboutime]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/22/uae-pardons-woman-jailed-after-reporting-alleged-rape/?test=latestnews








YOU told us Sharia Law only applied to Muslims... That non-Muslims were not bound by it and could not be punished by it.

So much for that bullshit.







(conversation overheard in the background as 'jafar' reads this thread to himself)

"OH SHIT. What excuse can I use on this one?"