This is CRAZY - Surg. General Nominee blased for telling Truth

[darin]

EXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - President Bush's nominee for surgeon general, Kentucky cardiologist Dr. James Holsinger, has come under fire from gay rights groups for voting to expel a lesbian pastor from the United Methodist Church and writing in 1991 that gay sex is unnatural and unhealthy.

Read more:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070607/D8PJLE400.html



What is going ON with society? Dr. Holsinger's vote about the methodist Chruch is CONSISTENT with Christianity. His comments about Homosexual activity is CLEARLY, obviously TRUE. Yet, the Homophile Agenda-Pushers are screaming LIES to the opposite.

Does ANYONE else see the IRONY in this statement by a Homo-Agenda Group?


"He has a pretty clear bias against gays and lesbians," said Christina Gilgor, director of the Kentucky Fairness Alliance, a gay rights group. "This ideology flies in the face of current scientific medical studies. That makes me uneasy that he rejects science and promotes ideology."This ideology flies in the face of current scientific medical studies. That makes me uneasy that he rejects science and promotes ideology."

Catch that? That stupid woman - that woman of impenetrable ignorance has it completely ass-backwards. The HomoAgenda groups are based on Ideology - what Dr. Holsinger said about homosexual activity is based on SCIENCE and BIOLOGY.

Homosexuals have by far the highest risk of STDs. Higher risks of Domestic Violence, too. Of COURSE their sexual conduct is unhealthy. It's a proven FACT.

Ms. Gilgor needs to be removed from ANY position of influence because she must be mentally ill.

[Doniston]

What is going ON with society? Dr. Holsinger's vote about the methodist Chruch is CONSISTENT with Christianity. His comments about Homosexual activity is CLEARLY, obviously TRUE. Yet, the Homophile Agenda-Pushers are screaming LIES to the opposite.

Does ANYONE else see the IRONY in this statement by a Homo-Agenda Group?



Catch that? That stupid woman - that woman of impenetrable ignorance has it completely ass-backwards. The HomoAgenda groups are based on Ideology - what Dr. Holsinger said about homosexual activity is based on SCIENCE and BIOLOGY.

Homosexuals have by far the highest risk of STDs. Higher risks of Domestic Violence, too. Of COURSE their sexual conduct is unhealthy. It's a proven FACT.

Ms. Gilgor needs to be removed from ANY position of influence because she must be mentally ill. This is very funny, in veiw of our last discssions on another thread. it is easy to see why you are taking that tack. Talk about homophobic Biasness. Really! You simply can't beleive that homosexuality traits might be ingrained. That is disguisting.

[darin]

This is very funny, in veiw of our last discssions on another thread. it is easy to see why you are taking that tack. Talk about homophobic Biasness. Really! You simply can't beleive that homosexuality traits might be ingrained. That is disguisting.

We're talking about HEALTH now. Try to keep up, aight? Homosexuality is Unhealthy. Are you debating that? What bias have I shown? The bias to reason, ration, and science?

[dan]

We're talking about HEALTH now. Try to keep up, aight? Homosexuality is Unhealthy. Are you debating that? What bias have I shown? The bias to reason, ration, and science?

What's unhealthy about two women?

[darin]

What's unhealthy about two women?

Ya got me there...that's pretty cool. :D

:dance::coffee:

[gabosaurus]

The man is a sick mofo who will never be confirmed. End of story.

[Lightning Waltz]

We're talking about HEALTH now. Try to keep up, aight? Homosexuality is Unhealthy. Are you debating that? What bias have I shown? The bias to reason, ration, and science?

Sex, in general, is "unhealthy".

[darin]

Sex, in general, is "unhealthy".

No. It's not. Sex in and of itself is VERY healthy. Having sex with more-than-one person is less-healthy. Homosexual Sex is unhealthy to the point it should be prosecuted, perhaps. It's More unhealthy, I'd guess, than Smoking or drinking, or Pot.

[Lightning Waltz]

No. It's not. Sex in and of itself is VERY healthy. Having sex with more-than-one person is less-healthy. Homosexual Sex is unhealthy to the point it should be prosecuted, perhaps. It's More unhealthy, I'd guess, than Smoking or drinking, or Pot.

Prove it.

[darin]

Prove it.

What would constitute proof for you? Reports from the CDC work?

[Lightning Waltz]

What would constitute proof for you? Reports from the CDC work?

Try me.

[gabosaurus]

Sex, in general, is "unhealthy".

Very true. You can gets AIDS from heterosexual sex. You can contract all sorts of sexually transmitted diseases. Sex with the wrong person can lead to various birth defects.

Why should sex between two women be considered "hot"? There is no actual sexual act involved? I would rather see two sexy guys tenderly embracing, kissing and doing other things.
If sex between two women is acceptable, sex between two men should be acceptable. Except that men are generally too insecure about their sexuality to acknowledge this.

I believe homophobia is a deviant sickness. Homophobes need to go through treatment for their illness.

[OCA]

Uhh you guys are fucking blind to reality, check these stats on what results from queer sex and remember that at best estimates queers are only 5 percent of the population but far outnumber regular folks who are 95% of the population in AIDS cases, tell me that queers banging each other in the crapper is not EXTREMELY dangerous and immoral.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#ddaids

[darin]

Try me.

(shrug)



The CDC reported that homosexuals account for 48 percent of adult AIDS cases, 27 percent involve intravenous-drug users and 7 percent involve people who fit both categories. In 15 percent of AIDS cases, the risk factor was heterosexual intercourse. In the other cases, the cause was such factors as receiving tainted blood or tissues, or it remains unidentified.
Homosexual and bisexual men are thought to account for a majority of the estimated 850,000 to 950,000 Americans living with HIV, the virus that causes the disease.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041202-125443-1708r.htm




The term men who have sex with men (MSM) refers to all men who have sex with other men, regardless of how they identify themselves (gay, bisexual, or heterosexual). In the United States, HIV and AIDS have had a tremendous impact on MSM. Consider these facts:

* AIDS has been diagnosed for more than half a million MSM. Over 300,000 MSM with AIDS have died since the beginning of the epidemic.
*
* MSM made up more than two thirds (60%) of all men living with HIV in 2005, even though only about 5% to 7% of men in the United States reported having sex with other men. In a 2005 study of 5 large US cities, 46% of African American MSM were HIV-positive.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm


That's JUST HIV. Would you like a break-down of every OTHER STD, Mental Health, or Domestic Violence rate?

[darin]

Very true. You can gets AIDS from heterosexual sex. You can contract all sorts of sexually transmitted diseases. Sex with the wrong person can lead to various birth defects.

Why should sex between two women be considered "hot"? There is no actual sexual act involved? I would rather see two sexy guys tenderly embracing, kissing and doing other things.
If sex between two women is acceptable, sex between two men should be acceptable. Except that men are generally too insecure about their sexuality to acknowledge this.

Pipe dream. Really. The whole girl-on-girl thing is tongue in cheek cuz it's hot.


I...a deviant sickness, need to go through treatment for...illness.

Selective Editing reveals something to you, about you.

[Lightning Waltz]

That's JUST HIV. Would you like a break-down of every OTHER STD, Mental Health, or Domestic Violence rate?

That's also just the US.

Look into stats on HIV world-wide...there are more heterosexuals infected with HIV than homosexuals.

Also, as stated before, you can get HIV through heterosexual sex, and heterosexuals have anal sex.

My point stands...you have argued for sex being "unhealthy", not homosexuality.

[Abbey Marie]

Sex, in general, is "unhealthy".

What is unhealthy about monogamous hetero sex?

[Lightning Waltz]

What is unhealthy about monogamous hetero sex?

The same that would be "unhealthy" about monogamous homosexual sex.

[darin]

That's also just the US.

Look into stats on HIV world-wide...there are more heterosexuals infected with HIV than homosexuals.

Prove it.


Also, as stated before, you can get HIV through heterosexual sex, and heterosexuals have anal sex.


Beside the point. Homosexuality is unhealthy, as PROVEN by the data, because of the SERIOUS increases in risks of STDs alone. I could show information about OTHER unhealthy consequence.



My point stands...you have argued for sex being "unhealthy", not homosexuality.

Your point is not standing. It's thrown to the floor, stomped upon, and tossed out. It's clearly, visibly, and reasonably countered with FACTS, despite your desire to the contrary.

[darin]

The same that would be "unhealthy" about monogamous homosexual sex.

Dude - Stop being obtuse. You KNOW you are wrong. Nobody with enough skill to use a computer could believe what you're saying.

[gabosaurus]

Selective Editing reveals something about me.

I'll agree with that. :poke:

Homophobia is a deviant sickness. Homophobes are brain damaged individuals who shouldn't be allowed around children.

Pipe dream. Really. The whole girl-on-girl thing is tongue in cheek cuz it's hot.

Gay sex can also be "tongue in cheek" if you think about it. And I am sure you have. :cool:

[OCA]

That's also just the US.

Look into stats on HIV world-wide...there are more heterosexuals infected with HIV than homosexuals.

Also, as stated before, you can get HIV through heterosexual sex, and heterosexuals have anal sex.

My point stands...you have argued for sex being "unhealthy", not homosexuality.


Dude what is it about just 5% of the population that you don't get? Of course there will be more cases among regular folks than among queers but thats what will happen when regular folks are 95% of the population. If you figure pecentages of population into the equation AIDS is astronomically more prevalent among queers than among regular folks.

[Lightning Waltz]

Prove it.

http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

Region Adults & children
living with HIV/AIDS Adults & children
newly infected Adult prevalence* Deaths of
adults & children
Sub-Saharan Africa 24.7 million 2.8 million 5.9% 2.1 million
North Africa & Middle East 460,000 68,000 0.2% 36,000
South and South-East Asia 7.8 million 860,000 0.6% 590,000
East Asia 750,000 100,000 0.1% 43,000
Oceania 81,000 7,100 0.4% 4,000
Latin America 1.7 million 140,000 0.5% 65,000
Caribbean 250,000 27,000 1.2% 19,000
Eastern Europe & Central Asia 1.7 million 270,000 0.9% 84,000
Western & Central Europe 740,000 22,000 0.3% 12,000
North America 1.4 million 43,000 0.8% 18,000
Global Total 39.5 million 4.3 million 1.0% 2.9 million


Beside the point. Homosexuality is unhealthy, as PROVEN by the data, because of the SERIOUS increases in risks of STDs alone. I could show information about OTHER unhealthy consequence.

Again, you have proven that unprotected sex is unhealthy. That the majority of folks that are HIV positive in the US doesn't prove that only one kind of unprotected sex is unhealthy...

Worldwide, the US only makes up .8% of the cases that are out there...


Your point is not standing. It's thrown to the floor, stomped upon, and tossed out. It's clearly, visibly, and reasonably countered with FACTS, despite your desire to the contrary.

Your conclusions aren't facts. Just biased opinions based on half-truths.

[Abbey Marie]

The same that would be "unhealthy" about monogamous homosexual sex.

Like what, exactly? I don't think my husband and I are having unhealthy sex. Please enlighten me.

[darin]

I'll agree with that. :poke:

Homophobia is a deviant sickness. Homophobes are brain damaged individuals who shouldn't be allowed around children.

Pipe dream. Really. The whole girl-on-girl thing is tongue in cheek cuz it's hot.

Gay sex can also be "tongue in cheek" if you think about it. And I am sure you have. :cool:

What does homophobia have to do with Science and Biology? Why are you people thinking I'm afraid of homosexuality? This is why:

You are Homophiles. Your argument against the realities of homosexual activity are PATHETIC, so you name-call by saying those who don't (excuse the pun) go-down on homos at every turn are somehow 'afraid' of them. Ya know what I Fear? I fear the MILLIONS of people who will die as a result of people like YOU not having the balls to stand up and get them HELP. You don't care about people - you care about re-enforcing people's relative happiness and damning to hell their future, their mind, and their body...ALL because you wanna be 'tolerant'.

[Lightning Waltz]

Dude what is it about just 5% of the population that you don't get? Of course there will be more cases among regular folks than among queers but thats what will happen when regular folks are 95% of the population. If you figure pecentages of population into the equation AIDS is astronomically more prevalent among queers than among regular folks.

You seem to be having a disconnect. DMP is trying to suggest that homosexuality is unhealthy, not necessarily unprotected sex. HIV is a great example about how unprotected sex is unhealthy. It doesn't say anything about homosexuality, specifically.

[OCA]

Like what, exactly? I don't think my husband and I are having unhealthy sex. Please enlighten me.


Abbey.....read betwen the lines honey......."isn't getting any" sound about right on Waltz's part?

[darin]

http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

Region Adults & children
living with HIV/AIDS Adults & children
newly infected Adult prevalence* Deaths of
adults & children
Sub-Saharan Africa 24.7 million 2.8 million 5.9% 2.1 million
North Africa & Middle East 460,000 68,000 0.2% 36,000
South and South-East Asia 7.8 million 860,000 0.6% 590,000
East Asia 750,000 100,000 0.1% 43,000
Oceania 81,000 7,100 0.4% 4,000
Latin America 1.7 million 140,000 0.5% 65,000
Caribbean 250,000 27,000 1.2% 19,000
Eastern Europe & Central Asia 1.7 million 270,000 0.9% 84,000
Western & Central Europe 740,000 22,000 0.3% 12,000
North America 1.4 million 43,000 0.8% 18,000
Global Total 39.5 million 4.3 million 1.0% 2.9 million



Again, you have proven that unprotected sex is unhealthy. That the majority of folks that are HIV positive in the US doesn't prove that only one kind of unprotected sex is unhealthy...

Worldwide, the US only makes up .8% of the cases that are out there...



Your conclusions aren't facts. Just biased opinions based on half-truths.

Okay - when 5%? of the US population has HALF the STDs, would you consider what they are doing 'healthy' or 'unhealthy'?

And your stats aren't really proving anything - except, obviously, some people who have homosexual contact also have heterosexual contact. Those people are 'still' Homosexuals. They are still 'gay'.

[OCA]

You seem to be having a disconnect. DMP is trying to suggest that homosexuality is unhealthy, not necessarily unprotected sex. HIV is a great example about how unprotected sex is unhealthy. It doesn't say anything about homosexuality, specifically.


Are you shitting me? Tell me you aren't one of these whack jobs who believes that two pole smokers having ass sex but wearing trojans can't get AIDS!

Uhh you know they are dealing with shit, turds etc. etc. right? Ain't no condom gonna protect you from the stuff in scat.

[Lightning Waltz]

Like what, exactly? I don't think my husband and I are having unhealthy sex. Please enlighten me.

If one of you brought the STD into the relationship, it would be just as unhealthy as if one partner in a homosexual relationship brings an STD into the relationship.

Similarly, if neither of you bring STDs into the relationship, that would also be just as unhealthy as if neither partner in a homosexuality relationship brings an STD into the relationship (which is to say, not necessarily, at all).

[Lightning Waltz]

Okay - when 5%? of the US population has HALF the STDs, would you consider what they are doing 'healthy' or 'unhealthy'?

And your stats aren't really proving anything - except, obviously, some people who have homosexual contact also have heterosexual contact. Those people are 'still' Homosexuals. They are still 'gay'.

When that 5% of the population consists of only .4% of the problem world-wide? It says not much.

And my stats don't prove that most of the world is bisexual...:lol:

[Lightning Waltz]

Are you shitting me? Tell me you aren't one of these whack jobs who believes that two pole smokers having ass sex but wearing trojans can't get AIDS!

Uhh you know they are dealing with shit, turds etc. etc. right? Ain't no condom gonna protect you from the stuff in scat.

Tell me you aren't one of these whack jobs who believs that two heterosexuals having sex but wearing trojans can't get AIDS!

[OCA]

Tell me you aren't one of these whack jobs who believs that two heterosexuals having sex but wearing trojans can't get AIDS!


Oh no they could, but the chances are astronomically reduced among regular folks.

[Abbey Marie]

If one of you brought the STD into the relationship, it would be just as unhealthy as if one partner in a homosexual relationship brings an STD into the relationship.

Similarly, if neither of you bring STDs into the relationship, that would also be just as unhealthy as if neither partner in a homosexuality relationship brings an STD into the relationship (which is to say, not necessarily, at all).

That is why I specified monogamous hetero sex. So, you would now agree that your statement that sex in general is unhealthy is untrue?

Also, being much less promiscuous than the average homosexual, even before marriage, really helps cut down on those STD's.

[Lightning Waltz]

Oh no they could, but the chances are astronomically reduced among regular folks.

Prove it.

[Lightning Waltz]

That is why I specified monogamous hetero sex. So, you would now agree that your statement that sex in general is unhealthy is untrue?

Also, being much less promiscuous than the average homosexual, even before marriage, really helps cut down on those STD's.

Eh? Strictly speaking, sex in general isn't necessarily "unhealthy".
I knew where the conversation was going, however. In the context of the conversation (and where it did lead to), my statement was correct. Do you understand what I'm saying?

It's not one kind of sex that is necessarily "healthy" or "unhealthy", but that they all share the same risk of STDs. And all form of that sex can be made into "healthier" choices (by entering into a monogamous relationship, wearing protection, etc).

[dan]

Monogamous, responsible (i.e., getting tested) gay sex is no different than monogamous, responsible hetero sex.

And, no, I don't find two guys together "hot" or "cool". Gab, you don't get it, it's a guy thing. It's not that I hate gay people, it's that for men, a lot of immediate attraction comes from visuals, and I think I speak for most straight men when I say that we don't find other men physically attractive. Even straight women can admit that the female body is beautiful. That's all there is to it.

[darin]

Monogamous, responsible (i.e., getting tested) gay sex is no different than monogamous, responsible hetero sex.


But it's not the same. Even Monogamous homosexuals face many more health concerns than straight folk. Males who have sex with males create a much higher risk of many types of infections - not the least of which is gay bowel syndrome. It's a sad truth.

[OCA]

Prove it.

Already have, you ignored the facts presented to you. Now its just my factually based opinions that will go forward.

[Lightning Waltz]

Already have, you ignored the facts presented to you. Now its just my factually based opinions that will go forward.

You didn't prove that "the chances are astronomically reduced among regular folks" to contract HIV using condems for heterosexual folks than for homosexual ones....

Not even close.

One person gave numbers about an extremely small percentage of infected people around the world...and I showed how generalizations based on that selective sample didn't prove anything. That's all that has been "proven" in this thread.

[Lightning Waltz]

But it's not the same. Even Monogamous homosexuals face many more health concerns than straight folk. Males who have sex with males create a much higher risk of many types of infections - not the least of which is gay bowel syndrome. It's a sad truth.

The same risks that heterosexuals face when having anal sex.

[darin]

The same risks that heterosexuals face when having anal sex.

That's make sense if you used it in context: Of the (very small) percentage of male/female relationships where anal sex is practices, exclusively, or frequently, many health concerns arise.

Sure. Beside the point - which is Homosexual conduct is both unhealthy and unnatural. It's a treatable affliction.

[Lightning Waltz]

That's make sense if you used it in context: Of the (very small) percentage of male/female relationships where anal sex is practices, exclusively, or frequently, many health concerns arise.

Sure. Beside the point - which is Homosexual conduct is both unhealthy and unnatural. It's a treatable affliction.

Unnatural? How can you claim that when it happens so often in nature?

[darin]

Unnatural? How can you claim that when it happens so often in nature?

It's unnatural because it's not a 'natural' or 'normal' human practice. It's abnormal. Unnatural. Natural things go as intended.

[Lightning Waltz]

It's unnatural because it's not a 'natural' or 'normal' human practice. It's abnormal. Unnatural. Natural things go as intended.

Under your subjective beliefs. Okay. :dunno:

[darin]

Under your subjective beliefs. Okay. :dunno:

Based on science, biology, and even a rudimentary understanding of human behavior. I'm not sure why you fight against biology so strongly. It's weird. There is NO scientific proof of a 'gay gene' yet you're so willing to believe it. Look at the research. Claiming people have a 'gay gene' doesn't make it so.

[Lightning Waltz]

Based on science, biology, and even a rudimentary understanding of human behavior. I'm not sure why you fight against biology so strongly. It's weird. There is NO scientific proof of a 'gay gene' yet you're so willing to believe it. Look at the research. Claiming people have a 'gay gene' doesn't make it so.

Prove that "based on science, biology and even a rudimentary understanding of human behavior", homosexuality is unnatural.

[OCA]

Prove that "based on science, biology and even a rudimentary understanding of human behavior", homosexuality is unnatural.


You must be kidding....think round peg into square hole.

[OCA]

The same risks that heterosexuals face when having anal sex.

You see though that regular folks have a choice between vaginal and anal sex......queers do not, they must engage in anal sex or well......blowing each other which is still risky.

[Lightning Waltz]

You must be kidding....think round peg into square hole.

This is your idea of "proof"?

[Lightning Waltz]

You see though that regular folks have a choice between vaginal and anal sex......queers do not, they must engage in anal sex or well......blowing each other which is still risky.

Last time I heard, heterosexuals seem to enjoy oral sex as well... Again, you fail to prove anything.

[Doniston]

Based on science, biology, and even a rudimentary understanding of human behavior. I'm not sure why you fight against biology so strongly. It's weird. There is NO scientific proof of a 'gay gene' yet you're so willing to believe it. Look at the research. Claiming people have a 'gay gene' doesn't make it so. And there is no proof that there isn't a propensity to gayness. In fact, brain scns have shown that ther is a pronounced didfference i certain parts of the brain of Gay as opposed to straight people. I am not hoing to look for that proof because you have already shown, that even faced with truth, you don't beleive it. You absolute refusal to beleive that gayness "could" (repeat) "COULD" be natural. proves it.

[Doniston]

You see though that regular folks have a choice between vaginal and anal sex......queers do not, they must engage in anal sex or well......blowing each other which is still risky. Which is also true of Hetros. or didn't you know that???

[darin]

And there is no proof that there isn't a propensity to gayness.

That's exactly it - a propensity to engage in a behavior does NOT mean somebody 'must'. It's a behavior. Period.


In fact, brain scns have shown that ther is a pronounced didfference i certain parts of the brain of Gay as opposed to straight people.

Bull. That's absolutely UNTRUE. There has been NO 'proof' of people 'being gay because of any differences' OR 'having differences because they are Gay.'

You believe fairy tales by people who hate people. I love people. I'd love to see homosexuality CURED - for the sake of the participants.

[OCA]

Know any regular folk who get high and have sex specifically with AIDS infected individuals?




Party, Play—And Pay
Multiple partners. Unprotected sex. And crystal meth. It's a deadly cocktail that has stirred new fears about the spread of HIV



By David J. Jefferson
Newsweek
Feb. 28 issue - It's Saturday evening in Manhattan, and three dozen men are crammed into a one-bedroom suite in an upscale hotel across from Ground Zero. After shelling out $20 apiece to the man who organized tonight's event over the Internet, the guests place their clothes in Hefty bags for safekeeping and get down to business and pleasure. A muscular man in his mid-30s sits naked on the sofa and inhales a "bump" of crystal methamphetamine. Within minutes, he's lying on the floor having unprotected sex with the host of tonight's sex party, whose sunken cheeks, swollen neck glands and distended belly betray the HIV infection he's been battling for years. In the bedroom, a dozen men, several of them sweaty, dehydrated and wired on meth, are having sex on the king-size bed. There's not a condom in sight. "It's completely suicidal, the crystal and the 'barebacking' [unprotected anal sex]," says one of two attendees who described the scene. "But there's something liberating and hot about it, too."



This is the ugly underworld of meth-fueled sex: "Party and Play," or PnP for short, as it's euphemistically called in Internet personal ads. News that a gay meth user in New York who had hundreds of unsafe sexual encounters may carry a virulent, drug-resistant strain of HIV has forced health officials and gay community leaders to take a sobering look at the growing role crystal methamphetamine is playing in the spread of AIDS. Doctors are unsure whether the new strain is an isolated case or the precursor of a deadly new wave of HIV. But it's clear that a dangerous nexus has formed between the nation's two big epidemics: AIDS and methamphetamine abuse.


The meth epidemic isn't new, nor is it just a gay problem. After exploding in the Southwest more than a decade ago, the relatively cheap drug has spread north and east; a 2003 federal study estimated that more than 12 million Americans have snorted, smoked or shot up meth at least once. But it is in the gay community that the link between crystal meth and unsafe sex is most alarming. In a study of 1,600 men who have had sex with men, conducted by the L.A. County public-health agency in 2003-04, 13 percent said they'd used meth in the previous 12 months; those respondents were twice as likely to report having had unprotected sex, and four times as likely to report being HIV-positive. And as many as three quarters of new patients diagnosed with HIV by counselors at Callen-Lorde Community Health Center in New York each month say crystal meth played a role in getting them there.

Even before crystal became commonplace in gay sex clubs and at the roving bacchanals known as circuit parties, many men had begun to let safer-sex practices slip. The arrival of retroviral cocktails in the late 1990s made HIV a chronic but manageable disease for many, but it also gave uninfected men, especially younger ones, a false sense of security. Throw meth into the mix, and safe sex goes out the window: men high on crystal are four times more likely to engage in unprotected sex as those who aren't, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The powerful stimulant leaves many users feeling euphoric and hypersexual, resulting in binges with multiple partners that can last until the user comes crashing off the drug a few days later. Because crystal causes temporary impotence for many men (some pop Viagra to counter the effect), users are more likely to be the receptive partners in unsafe sex, where the risk of contracting HIV is greatest.

Why are so many gay men tempted to play this game of Russian roulette? Hans Kindt did it for the sense of belonging—and for the sex. Arriving in San Francisco in 1994, Kindt, then 34, was just coming to terms with his homosexuality. "I had no role models. I had to find my own way. I really didn't know anything. So I asked a friend of mine, 'How do you meet guys?' He told me the way to get into anybody's pants is to give them a hit of speed." But the pleasure came with a steep price. Within a year, Kindt had lost his job, he was homeless and he was HIV-positive. "Had there been a candid, clear, honest discussion about the drug and its dangers—not the hysteria we are prone to in this country—then I think I would have listened," says Kindt, now sober and 45.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999699/site/newsweek/

[Lightning Waltz]

Newsweek

Good to see you changed your mind, eh?


Newsweek is slanted hard to the left, its a Dem mouthpiece.

[dan]

I'm sure it's not exactly the cream of the crop at these gay meth parties. Why does it matter what these people do?

[Lightning Waltz]

Know any regular folk who get high and have sex specifically with AIDS infected individuals?

Don't know any gays that do, either...but I'm sure heterosexuals do it, too.

Actually, I did hear in Africa that there were some infected heterosexual men who were raping young virgin girls because they thought it was a cure for AIDS. Does that count?

[OCA]

Don't know any gays that do, either...but I'm sure heterosexuals do it, too.

Actually, I did hear in Africa that there were some infected heterosexual men who were raping young virgin girls because they thought it was a cure for AIDS. Does that count?

No just is proof of the low iq of Africans.

The article is proof of Gays doing it.

[OCA]

Good to see you changed your mind, eh?


Even Newsweek has a conscience I guess.

[OCA]

I'm sure it's not exactly the cream of the crop at these gay meth parties. Why does it matter what these people do?

Because they are spreading AIDS without thought or remorse, you think they don't get saliva or blood or whatever on anything as they go through daily life? This is no different than a person who knowingly infects another with AIDS unbeknownst to the other. It is proof that queers are the #1 spreader of infectious diseases out there and that they don't give two shits about it.

[Lightning Waltz]

No just is proof of the low iq of Africans.

The article is proof of Gays doing it.

Well, I think you proved the low IQ of someone...but not the Africans.

As for "gays doing it", making that claim and sterotyping all gays would make as much sense as stereotyping all Africans as being stupid, all heterosexuals as being child molesters, or all republicans as being like you.

[Lightning Waltz]

Even Newsweek has a conscience I guess.

I think it shows a lack of intellectual honesty on your part.

You only try to discredit Newsweek as a source when they are printing something that you disagree with.

[Lightning Waltz]

Because they are spreading AIDS without thought or remorse, you think they don't get saliva or blood or whatever on anything as they go through daily life? This is no different than a person who knowingly infects another with AIDS unbeknownst to the other. It is proof that queers are the #1 spreader of infectious diseases out there and that they don't give two shits about it.

Another horrible argument.
Another horrible stereotype.
And you certainly having proven that homosexuals are the "#1 spreader of infectious diseases out there".

[OCA]

Lightning is lightning fast at ignoring facts we see.

Maybe this isn't the topic for you since even the CDC facts you ignore.

[OCA]

Well, I think you proved the low IQ of someone...but not the Africans.

As for "gays doing it", making that claim and sterotyping all gays would make as much sense as stereotyping all Africans as being stupid, all heterosexuals as being child molesters, or all republicans as being like you.

Find an article that shows regular folks purposely getting high in order to have sex with AIDS infected partners.

[OCA]

Another horrible argument.
Another horrible stereotype.
And you certainly having proven that homosexuals are the "#1 spreader of infectious diseases out there".

Wrong, another stellar argument. You saying my argument is horrible is not an outstanding debate tactic FYI.

CDC says queers lead in new AIDS cases year in and year out.

[Guernicaa]

Read and learn:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15

Bush's nominee for surgeon general, Dr. James Holsinger, has come under fire this week for his anti-gay politics (first documented by Bible Belt Blogger Frank Lockwood). By day Holsinger teaches health sciences at the University of Kentucky where he was chancellor of the Chandler Medical Center. By night, however, the good doctor is a bible-thumping Reverend with a degree in biblical studies from Asbury Theological Seminary and a seeming fascination of antipathy towards homosexuals.

Holsinger founded the Hope Springs Community Church, a "recovery ministry" that caters to alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts and those seeking to "walk out of that [homosexual] lifestyle," according to its pastor Rev. David Calhoun. When not busy endorsing ex-gay conversion therapy, Holsinger served on the highest court of the United Methodist Church where he voted to remove a lesbian pastor from her position.

And today, the Human Rights Campaign released a document Holsinger authored in 1991 as a member of the United Methodist Church's Committee to Study Homosexuality. Titled Pathophysiology of Male Homosexuality, Holsinger's religious tract-cum-scientific paper is a fascinating window into the perverse imagination of homophobia. In essence, Holsinger argues that male-female "reproductive systems are fully complementary" because "anatomically the vagina is designed to receive the penis." The remainder of his paper is a graphic account of the "delicate" rectum which is "incapable" of "protection" if "objects that are large, sharp, or pointed are inserted" into it. From there Holsinger continues to discuss what he imagines are the pains (and pleasures?) of anal sex, from "fist fornication" and "sphincter injuries" to "lacerations," "perforations" and "deaths seen in connection with anal eroticism."

Sharp objects! Deaths seen in connection with anal eroticism! Gadzooks! Now, I've been around the block one or ten times, and I don't know any gay men who have put scissors up their ass, much less died from it. Of course, the barely mentioned but palpably anxious context in which Holsinger connects "death" with "anal eroticism" is the AIDS epidemic. And it should come as no surprise that his paper was part of a larger, pseudo-medical, moral discourse in which gay men's mode of sex (and by extension gay men) were blamed for AIDS - the death we deserved, the sexual suicide we courted.

The flip side of Dr. Holsinger's lurid speculation is the dangerous presumption that because heterosexual sex is "natural," it is safe -- safe from HIV, other sexually transmitted diseases and the trauma and injury that Holsinger seems so feverishly eager to attribute to gay anal sex. We now know, tragically and beyond any possible doubt, that heterosexual sex is not safe unless one practices it as such. And no amount of wishing and praying by our next Surgeon General on the "complementarity of the human sexes" will make it so.

A few years after Dr. Holsinger wrote his little brief against male-male anal sex, then Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders suggested, at a UN Conference on AIDS, that masturbation might be taught to young people as a mode of reducing sexual risk. On this point she was absolutely correct, but for even daring to mention the M-word, she was lampooned by the Christian right and eventually asked to resign by a cowardly Bill Clinton who, in retrospect, might have paid more attention to Dr. Elders and spent less time inserting foreign objects into inappropriate places.

But no matter. The doctor who gave sound, clinical medical advice was fired, while the doctor who engaged in wild, graphic and unsubstantiated fantasies about gay sex will most likely assume the helm as "America's chief health educator." And you wonder why we have a health care crisis in this country.

[Guernicaa]

Wrong, another stellar argument. You saying my argument is horrible is not an outstanding debate tactic FYI.

CDC says queers lead in new AIDS cases year in and year out.
So your saying gay men lead the world in AIDS cases?

[Lightning Waltz]

Find an article that shows regular folks purposely getting high in order to have sex with AIDS infected partners.

Just one?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_23_101/ai_87024802
That was easy.

[OCA]

Just one?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_23_101/ai_87024802
That was easy.

Lol, are you stupid or what? I said find an article that shows regular folks intentionally getting high in order to have sex with partners whom they KNOW have HIV.

Please try to follow along.

[OCA]

So your saying gay men lead the world in AIDS cases?

As a percentage of population they in fact do.

[Doniston]

That's exactly it - a propensity to engage in a behavior does NOT mean somebody 'must'. It's a behavior. Period.



Bull. That's absolutely UNTRUE. There has been NO 'proof' of people 'being gay because of any differences' OR 'having differences because they are Gay.'

You believe fairy tales by people who hate people. I love people. I'd love to see homosexuality CURED - for the sake of the participants.You are simply full of crap. See. I don't even have to prove it for you to say it's untrue. Frankly I don't think you know your ass from a hole in the ground.

[OCA]

You are simply full of crap.

Prove he's full of crap Fidel.

[Guernicaa]

As a percentage of population they in fact do.
LOLOLOLOL...I knew you'd say it!!!

OCA IS A FUCKING DUMBASS! ahahahahahah

You fucking moron....
Do you even know what the fuck your saying or do you just enjoy making shit up to try and bash gay people???

It's actually black people who lead the world in the percentage of AIDS cases...and in particular the black people living in Africa.

The number of black Africans compared with the number of US gay men living with AIDS cant even be compared.

The numbers are nowhere near each other.

Don't open your mouth unless you know what your talking about.

[darin]

LOLOLOLOL...I knew you'd say it!!!

OCA IS A FUCKING DUMBASS! ahahahahahah

You fucking moron....
Do you even know what the fuck your saying or do you just enjoy making shit up to try and bash gay people???

It's actually black people who lead the world in the percentage of AIDS cases...and in particular the black people living in Africa.

The number of black Africans compared with the number of US gay men living with AIDS cant even be compared.

The numbers are nowhere near each other.

Don't open your mouth unless you know what your talking about.


Where did YOU come from in this discussion? Enjoy your ban.

[Lightning Waltz]

Lol, are you stupid or what? I said find an article that shows regular folks intentionally getting high in order to have sex with partners whom they KNOW have HIV.

Please try to follow along.

So, the intentional spreading of the infection isn't the point...

What is your point, again?

[darin]

You are simply full of crap. Ses. I don't even have to prove it for you to say it's untrue. Frankly I don't think you know your ass froma hile in the ground.

But I know how to type, and how to spell. Stop being a dickhead when you are confronted with facts.

[OCA]

LOLOLOLOL...I knew you'd say it!!!

OCA IS A FUCKING DUMBASS! ahahahahahah

You fucking moron....
Do you even know what the fuck your saying or do you just enjoy making shit up to try and bash gay people???

It's actually black people who lead the world in the percentage of AIDS cases...and in particular the black people living in Africa.

The number of black Africans compared with the number of US gay men living with AIDS cant even be compared.

The numbers are nowhere near each other.

Don't open your mouth unless you know what your talking about.


Two down today, not a bad days work.

And actually I will clarify the position since I don't want anymore meltdowns from people like Osama when they don't undrstand something.

If queers are no more than 5 % of the earth's population but have x number of AIDS cases, such as in America(can't find a number for total homosexual cases on earth) where the CDC reports its 18,000+ and regular folks were at 12,000+ but 95% of the population that percentage of the queer population with AIDS is astronomically higher than the regular folk population. Hell its not even on the same chart!

Its simple ratios, I apologize in advance if this is too much for some of the queer apologists out there.

[OCA]

So, the intentional spreading of the infection isn't the point...

What is your point, again?

Queers intentionally spread but hell the ones not infected seek out and have relations with ones who are. You'll not find one case of that amongst regular folks.

[Lightning Waltz]

Queers intentionally spread but hell the ones not infected seek out and have relations with ones who are. You'll not find one case of that amongst regular folks.

So, you think it's worse for some crazy homosexual person to want to become HIV postive than some crazy heterosexual person to infect people who don't want to become HIV positive?

That's just plain weird.

[Doniston]

That's exactly it - a propensity to engage in a behavior does NOT mean somebody 'must'. It's a behavior. Period. Interesting, there's no proof yet you beleive it Par for the course (as long as it is what you WANT to beleive.


[quote]
Bull. That's absolutely UNTRUE. There has been NO 'proof' of people 'being gay because of any differences' OR 'having differences because they are Gay.'


[QUOTE] see how interesting? You beleive something where there is no proof shown because you want to beleive it, but I don't even have to prove something for you to disbeleive it because it is something you don't want to beleive. and you didn't ask for proof because you don't want it to be true. Frankly I don't think you know your ass from a hole in the ground. and you make no sense with your abject denials. You are not worth further discussion./

[OCA]

So, you think it's worse for some crazy homosexual person to want to become HIV postive than some crazy heterosexual person to infect people who don't want to become HIV positive?

That's just plain weird.

No, both are sick. But the fact is that is rare amongst regular folks but a rather common occurence amongst queers.

[Doniston]

[QUOTE=OCA;73447]Know any regular folk who get high and have sex specifically with AIDS infected individuals?


QUOTE] what an asinine question. Do you know any Gay folk who DON'T have aids that do so? I didn't think so.

Nuf said

[avatar4321]

What's unhealthy about two women?

The lack of me:D

[Doniston]

Well, I think you proved the low IQ of someone...but not the Africans.

As for "gays doing it", making that claim and sterotyping all gays would make as much sense as stereotyping all Africans as being stupid, all heterosexuals as being child molesters, or all republicans as being like you. I fully agree.

[Lightning Waltz]

No, both are sick. But the fact is that is rare amongst regular folks but a rather common occurence amongst queers.

Nothing in that article suggested "common".

[OCA]

[QUOTE=OCA;73447]Know any regular folk who get high and have sex specifically with AIDS infected individuals?


QUOTE] what an asinine question. Do you know any Gay folk who DON'T have aids that do so? I didn't think so.

Nuf said

Fidel, read the thread before you post, I already posted proof of my accusation.

[Doniston]

Find an article that shows regular folks purposely getting high in order to have sex with AIDS infected partners. You haven't found an article that proves Gay people do so.

[avatar4321]

Well, I think you proved the low IQ of someone...but not the Africans.

As for "gays doing it", making that claim and sterotyping all gays would make as much sense as stereotyping all Africans as being stupid, all heterosexuals as being child molesters, or all republicans as being like you.

Africans have an excuse. Most havent been educated to the dangers.

Gays on the other hand purposely and knowingly expose themselves and others to these risks.

[OCA]

Nothing in that article suggested "common".



http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-188.html

[Doniston]

Just one?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_23_101/ai_87024802
That was easy. Sorry, you shouldn't have posted that. it shows an HIV infected person knowingly having unprotected sex with an uninfected person. not the other way around.

[OCA]

You haven't found an article that proves Gay people do so.

Fidel, stop, you are making a complete ass out of yourself, seriously, you are making it completely obvious you haven't read the thread at all.

[Doniston]

As a percentage of population they in fact do. I don't beleive that is true any longer.

[Doniston]

Prove he's full of crap Fidel. Not necessary, it is obvious, and this isn't a debate and you have no effect in the matter. You have proven you are a dumbass.

[Doniston]

But I know how to type, and how to spell. Stop being a dickhead when you are confronted with facts. Big damn deal. But I know how to use my head. something you have yet to learn.

[OCA]

Uhh you guys are fucking blind to reality, check these stats on what results from queer sex and remember that at best estimates queers are only 5 percent of the population but far outnumber regular folks who are 95% of the population in AIDS cases, tell me that queers banging each other in the crapper is not EXTREMELY dangerous and immoral.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#ddaids


Ok Fidel, this one is just for you since you think its no longer true.

[avatar4321]

Fact is gay sex is unhealthier than normal sex.

Fact is monogomy is healthier than promicuity.

You realize that a homosexual male has a life expectency that is almost 20 years lower than the normal male? You don't think its just some random coincidence.

http://www.worldandihomeschool.com/public_articles/2002/july/wis22372.asp

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060606.html

You people who encourage homosexual behavior are robbing men of an average of 20 years of your life. You who claim to care about them so much. Rather than actually help them out you are sending them to an early grave.

Ironically you accuse us Christians who follow God's standards and encourage others to do the same as being the uncaring ones when we are the ones promoting the principles that will not only save their soul but save expand their lives.

The truth is that God's standard, despite being mocked is still the only one that leads to safety, happiness, and fulfillment in life. That is chastity before marriage and fidelity aftewards. If you follow that principle and choose a partner that is equally yoked with you, you will never get AIDS or any other sexual disease. You would never see a child abandoned by his parents. You would see a much better world.

I can promise you that those of you who continue to mock God and His standards will see the day when your own actions will bring destruction to us all on a global level. How long can a man play carelessly with fire before he gets burned?

[Lightning Waltz]

Sorry, you shouldn't have posted that. it shows an HIV infected person knowingly having unprotected sex with an uninfected person. not the other way around.

It shows a heterosexual person intentionally passing the disease, yes.

That was as opposed to OCA who was claiming that only homosexuals intentionally pass the disease.

[OCA]

Not necessary, it is obvious, and this isn't a debate and you have no effect in the matter. You have proven you are a dumbass.

Fidel you are having a breakdown, maybe you should logoff and get some fresh air.

[avatar4321]

It shows a heterosexual person intentionally passing the disease, yes.

That was as opposed to OCA who was claiming that only homosexuals intentionally pass the disease.

So because a heterosexual person intentionally passes a disease that excuses the immorality and unhealthy lifestyles of the homosexual community?

[Doniston]

Two down today, not a bad days work.

And actually I will clarify the position since I don't want anymore meltdowns from people like Osama when they don't undrstand something.

If queers are no more than 5 % of the earth's population but have x number of AIDS cases, such as in America(can't find a number for total homosexual cases on earth) where the CDC reports its 18,000+ and regular folks were at 12,000+ but 95% of the population that percentage of the queer population with AIDS is astronomically higher than the regular folk population. Hell its not even on the same chart!

Its simple ratios, I apologize in advance if this is too much for some of the queer apologists out there. Spin it any way you want. you are still wrong.

BTW, reference this:(quote) Two down today, not a bad days work 9unquote) are you now a member of the staff and you set the rules? I asked ryder about this but he hasn't yet replied

[darin]

Spin it any way you want. you are still wrong.

Translation: Doniston is out of argument, so he'll just stomp his feet.

[Doniston]

Queers intentionally spread but hell the ones not infected seek out and have relations with ones who are. You'll not find one case of that amongst regular folks.
and you haven't shown a single case where gays do so.

[avatar4321]

and you haven't shown a single case where gays do so.

You obviously didnt read the article at the top of this page.

[Doniston]

[QUOTE=Doniston;73577]

Fidel, read the thread before you post, I already posted proof of my accusation. You have posted no proof. just your opinion which is as worthless as tits on a boar hog

[OCA]

Spin it any way you want. you are still wrong.



Spin???????? Shit you are the stupidest old man I think i've ever met...kologero!

[Lightning Waltz]

So because a heterosexual person intentionally passes a disease that excuses the immorality and unhealthy lifestyles of the homosexual community?

Er...no one has shown that the homosexual community is "immoral" or has "unhealthy lifestyles".

It was put out there that some gays partisipate in the risky behavior in the article. I showed that some heterosexuals do that, or worse...

Neither should be stereotyped for because of the horrible behavior of the minority.

[darin]

Er...no one has shown that the homosexual community is "immoral" or has "unhealthy lifestyles".

It's been clearly shown. You and a couple others are simply closed-minded.

[Doniston]

Fidel, stop, you are making a complete ass out of yourself, seriously, you are making it completely obvious you haven't read the thread at all. Maybe I am just trying to catch up to you, but no, that couldn't be catching up to you, you simply couldn't make an ass of yourself 'cause You just CAN'T improve on nature.

[Doniston]

Ok Fidel, this one is just for you since you think its no longer true.What makes you comment out to be non-proof is this :

HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report: HIV Infection and AIDS in the United States and Dependent Areas, 2005. This is not world wide. only in certain areas

DUMMY

[Lightning Waltz]

It's been clearly shown. You and a couple others are simply closed-minded.

I'm not closed-minded...unlike some, I just don't let my brain fall out...

[Doniston]

Fact is gay sex is unhealthier than normal sex.

Fact is monogomy is healthier than promicuity.

You realize that a homosexual male has a life expectency that is almost 20 years lower than the normal male? You don't think its just some random coincidence.

http://www.worldandihomeschool.com/public_articles/2002/july/wis22372.asp

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060606.html

You people who encourage homosexual behavior are robbing men of an average of 20 years of your life. You who claim to care about them so much. Rather than actually help them out you are sending them to an early grave.

Ironically you accuse us Christians who follow God's standards and encourage others to do the same as being the uncaring ones when we are the ones promoting the principles that will not only save their soul but save expand their lives.

The truth is that God's standard, despite being mocked is still the only one that leads to safety, happiness, and fulfillment in life. That is chastity before marriage and fidelity aftewards. If you follow that principle and choose a partner that is equally yoked with you, you will never get AIDS or any other sexual disease. You would never see a child abandoned by his parents. You would see a much better world.

I can promise you that those of you who continue to mock God and His standards will see the day when your own actions will bring destruction to us all on a global level. How long can a man play carelessly with fire before he gets burned?

you have the wrong idea. We do not encourage homosexuality, (unless we are ourselves homosexual). what the rest of us do is ACCEPT homosexuals for what they are. and it is you people who Judge them who are doing the harm.

GOD doesn't have a Standard, People who pretend to Speak for god are the ones who have the standard. And they in fact are doing the Judging.

[darin]

I'm not closed-minded...unlike some, I just don't let my brain fall out...

I've given you a decent-amount of evidence and you have access to Data yet you refuse to believe it. (shrug). You want your pipe-dream to be reality so bad you're unable to be taught anything.

The data CLEARLY points to the dangers of a homosexual lifestyle in terms of over-all health. If you choose to disregard the data that's your call. All I can do is show you the truth - you have to accept it or not.

[Doniston]

It shows a heterosexual person intentionally passing the disease, yes.

That was as opposed to OCA who was claiming that only homosexuals intentionally pass the disease. I understand, but it wasn't what he asked. so to him, it was a wrong answer. It is amazing how technical they get when they are trying to promote a losing point.

[OCA]

What makes you comment out to be non-proof is this :

HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report: HIV Infection and AIDS in the United States and Dependent Areas, 2005. This is not world wide. only in certain areas

DUMMY

So you are saying that the U.S. is an anamoly and the trend is different in every other country?

Are you shitting me?

[Doniston]

Fidel you are having a breakdown, maybe you should logoff and get some fresh air. Let's see now, I have been trying to fugure what OCA stands for. --- maybe obnoxiously caloused asshole? I think I will start refereing to you as "OBNOX", OK??

[Doniston]

Fidel you are having a breakdown, maybe you should logoff and get some fresh air. Let's see now, I have been trying to fugure what OCA stands for. --- maybe obnoxiously caloused asshole? I think I will star refering to you as OBNOX, OK

[OCA]

Maybe we will refer to Fidel from now on as quote fuckup and double post boy!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Doniston]

Translation: Doniston is out of argument, so he'll just stomp his feet. Another translation from the system of Orion

[darin]

Another translation from the system of Orion

With every post you make, you prove my point. Thank you.

[Patsy Cline singing]"...Crazy....You're Crazy for trying to Debate me!!.."

[Doniston]

So you are saying that the U.S. is an anamoly and the trend is different in every other country?

Are you shitting me? Not at all, you are a turd that as already been shit, and remains so. World wide there are far more blacks with aids, and it is hetrosexual in those areas. You apear to be using US facts as world-wide fact, and it just isn't so.

[Doniston]

Maybe we will refer to Fidel from now on as quote fuckup and double post boy!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: whatever git's your gittyup.

[OCA]

Another translation from the system of Orion


Fidel you are out of juice here, your batteries are kaput, the gas tank is empty, please stop. I've never seen someone make this big a fool out of theirselves, its embarrassing.

[OCA]

Not at all, you are a turd that as already been shit, and remains so. World wide there are far more blacks with aids, and it is hetrosexual in those areas. You apear to be using US facts as world-wide fact, and it just isn't so.

Do you know anything about ratios in relation to population percentage?

[Kathianne]

Having only read the last post, including post quoted, wtf?

[Lightning Waltz]

I've given you a decent-amount of evidence and you have access to Data yet you refuse to believe it. (shrug). You want your pipe-dream to be reality so bad you're unable to be taught anything.

The data CLEARLY points to the dangers of a homosexual lifestyle in terms of over-all health. If you choose to disregard the data that's your call. All I can do is show you the truth - you have to accept it or not.

:lol:


"Clearly"
When in doubt, say "clearly." It may not be clear, but your opposition doesn't know that. By offhandedly suggesting that a particular train of thought is obvious to you, you will come across as a daunting force of intelligence difficult to reckon with.

Opponent: "I don't see how you can say clothing is immoral."
You: "Clothing was invented as a means of concealing immorality. Anyone wearing clothing is clearly doing so for the same reason."
Opponent: "No, people wear clothing for a number of reasons. To stay warm, for example."
You: "Clearly, these reasons are rationalizations made up after the fact."

[Doniston]

delete

[Doniston]

With every post you make, you prove my point. Thank you.

[Patsy Cline singing]"...Crazy....You're Crazy for trying to Debate me!!.." Sorry, you don't have a point. at least not in this case. and I'm not debating you OR patsy Cline.

[Doniston]

Fidel you are out of juice here, your batteries are kaput, the gas tank is empty, please stop. I've never seen someone make this big a fool out of theirselves, its embarrassing.Look in the mirror.

[Doniston]

Do you know anything about ratios in relation to population percentage? Yes I happen to have taught math but you can't add two and two and get 1/4 and you are adding apples and orages to get grapes.

[OCA]

Yes I happen to have taught math but you can't add two and two and get 1/4 and you are adding apples and orages to get grapes.

*yawn* zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Fidel, you need a mojito.

[Doniston]

[QUOTE=OCA;73816]*yawn* zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Fidel, you need a mojito./QUOTE] If it's so boring, why do you post. course the answer is obvious--- You don't know any better. This is intentional.

[avatar4321]

Er...no one has shown that the homosexual community is "immoral" or has "unhealthy lifestyles".

It was put out there that some gays partisipate in the risky behavior in the article. I showed that some heterosexuals do that, or worse...

Neither should be stereotyped for because of the horrible behavior of the minority.

They have a life expectancy 20 years lower than the average person. Are you seriously claiming thats just a coincidence and not because of some inherent unhealthy aspect of their lifestyle???

[avatar4321]

you have the wrong idea. We do not encourage homosexuality, (unless we are ourselves homosexual). what the rest of us do is ACCEPT homosexuals for what they are. and it is you people who Judge them who are doing the harm.

GOD doesn't have a Standard, People who pretend to Speak for god are the ones who have the standard. And they in fact are doing the Judging.

Unlike you I dont have a problem with judging. In fact, neither did Christ, His problem with judging by appearances. Judging righteously is commanded.

There acting severely limit their life expectancy. Their actions injure others. The lifestyle is focused solely on physical gratification. It's an imitation of genuine human love.

Your arguments are based solely on emotion. You think it's compassionate to accept bad behavior. Ironically its your reinfocement of that bad behavior causes them to assume such dangerous and unhealthy behavior is alright leading to lower life expectancies and higher chances of diseases.

And God has a standard. no one who knows Him can deny that. And I don't pretend anything.

[Doniston]

[QUOTE=avatar4321;73880]Unlike you I dont have a problem with judging. In fact, neither did Christ, His problem with judging by appearances. Judging righteously is commanded.

QUOTE] judging by whom? your lil old bearded man in the sky??? or the only mis-begotten son of god?

[avatar4321]

judging by whom? your lil old bearded man in the sky??? or the only mis-begotten son of god?

cant deal with the arguments so you havet to resort to mocking?

I think that demonstrates the strength of your position.

[Guernicaa]

Two down today, not a bad days work.

And actually I will clarify the position since I don't want anymore meltdowns from people like Osama when they don't undrstand something.

If queers are no more than 5 % of the earth's population but have x number of AIDS cases, such as in America(can't find a number for total homosexual cases on earth) where the CDC reports its 18,000+ and regular folks were at 12,000+ but 95% of the population that percentage of the queer population with AIDS is astronomically higher than the regular folk population. Hell its not even on the same chart!

Its simple ratios, I apologize in advance if this is too much for some of the queer apologists out there.
Actually, we were speaking in terms of "the world"...
And I will gladly quote you when I'm done typing this post.


Over 42 million people are living with HIV/AIDS, and 74 percent of these infected people live in sub-Saharan Africa.
http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml

AIDS in Africa is a heterosexual STD...
Therefore, if 74% of AIDS cases in the world come from Africa, homosexuals do not make up the majority of AIDS cases in the world.

Also, I would like for you to find me proof that they make up the majority in the US. So far, I have found no website that verifies that it’s predominantly a homosexual disease. That pretty much proves that it’s no longer a "homosexual" only disease, and that its spread almost equally into the hetero and drug addict communities.

[OCA]

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#ddaids

Uhh remember when viewing this that queer choicers at best estimate make up only 5% of the population...and yes the surgeon general was talking about the U.S.

owned

[Guernicaa]

So your saying gay men lead the world in AIDS cases?


As a percentage of population they in fact do.
hmmm...

[OCA]

hmmm...

Find me a stat on queer choice AIDS cases worldwide. Although AIDS did not originate in queer choicers they in fact spread it exponentially to where it can be argued that AIDS worldwide springs from queer choicers and their blatant disregard for AIDS prevention in the early going.

[OCA]

hmmm...

Oh and as a percentage of population speaking purely in ratios queer chicers lead the U.S. and world in AIDS cases.l

[OCA]

Osama is ignoring facts......typical.

[Doniston]

cant deal with the arguments so you havet to resort to mocking?

I think that demonstrates the strength of your position. I think it is just that you don't want to see that I am denying your God, as a figment of your imagination. "THAT"is my agruement. is that clear eniugh for you?

[Doniston]

Uhh remember when viewing this that queer choicers at best estimate make up only 5% of the population...and yes the surgeon general was talking about the U.S.

owned Then try to stay on subject. the rest of us were talking about the world.

You don't even OWN your own thoughts.

[OCA]

Then try to stay on subject. the rest of us were talking about the world.

You don't even OWN your own thoughts.

The opening post is by the U.S. SURGEON GENERAL and deals with the U.S.....Jesus follow along. You bring in the world and try to play the elementary school game of gross numbers because anything involving more thought defeats your P.O.V.

I'll say it again, you are out of your league here old man. Go back to the Sunnyside Assisted Living and play croquet.

[OCA]

I think it is just that you don't want to see that I am denying your God, as a figment of your imagination. "THAT"is my agruement. is that clear eniugh for you?


You deny God because you fear a set of standards to live by..simply put.

[Guernicaa]

Find me a stat on queer choice AIDS cases worldwide. Although AIDS did not originate in queer choicers they in fact spread it exponentially to where it can be argued that AIDS worldwide springs from queer choicers and their blatant disregard for AIDS prevention in the early going.
lol...Again...More lies from OCA.

There is no proof as to where AIDS originated.
And there is deff. no proof that gay men caused it to spread rapidly worldwide.
Symptoms were being seen throughout the late 70's in Europe, Africa, and other places throughout the world.
http://www.avert.org/his81_86.htm

[Guernicaa]

Osama is ignoring facts......typical.

Actually im providing you with links to all my sources.

So far I have seen 0 links from you.

[OCA]

lol...Again...More lies from OCA.

There is no proof as to where AIDS originated.
And there is deff. no proof that gay men caused it to spread rapidly worldwide.
Symptoms were being seen throughout the late 70's in Europe, Africa, and other places throughout the world.
http://www.avert.org/his81_86.htm

You are shitting me right? Late 70's early 80's San Francisco mean anything to you Osama? Want me to post some proof for you that they in fact infected the American blood supply?

[Guernicaa]

You deny God because you fear a set of standards to live by..simply put.
Why does that standard greatly vary among each individual and especially each denomination?

Some Christians claim "gods involved in everything"...
Others will tell you "God doesn't get involved in anything...he lets us live our lives and make our own choices...and then judges us based on those choices"...


Why the variation?
Because it’s your imagination!

[OCA]

Actually im providing you with links to all my sources.

So far I have seen 0 links from you.

Read the thread Einstein. I don't post the same link for every dumbass lib who gets their ass handed to them on this subject.

[OCA]

Why does that standard greatly vary among each individual and especially each denomination?

Some Christians claim "gods involved in everything"...
Others will tell you "God doesn't get involved in anything...he lets us live our lives and make our own choices...and then judges us based on those choices"...


Why the variation?
Because it’s your imagination!

You fear God because you fear a set of standards to live by, you feel you are not capable of living up to a set of standards. I feel you are not able to either, you are a douchebag.

AIDS is God's wrath upon queer choicers.

[OCA]

Unfortunately innocent people are paying for queer's sins.

[Guernicaa]

You are shitting me right? Late 70's early 80's San Francisco mean anything to you Osama? Want me to post some proof for you that they in fact infected the American blood supply?
Not among the world.

Read the source I gave you...

Also, there are prominent theories to suggest that it came from polio vaccines and other injections. Therefore, it cannot be blamed on gay men.

[Guernicaa]

Unfortunately innocent people are paying for queer's sins.
LOL AHAHAHAHAHAA

So its ok for a heterosexual to have sex with someone whos bi???

Your basically trying to say that all the straight people who had sex with each other and got HIV are "innocent"...

[OCA]

Not among the world.

Read the source I gave you...

Also, there are prominent theories to suggest that it came from polio vaccines and other injections. Therefore, it cannot be blamed on gay men.


On AIDS and the Nation's Blood Supply
By WALTER GOODMAN
Published: December 1, 1993
In October, "Dateline NBC" carried a report on the risk of getting AIDS from a blood transfusion. It was a fairly typical news magazine piece that seemed bent on raising anxiety about a danger that it conceded had been brought under control. The difference between that story and "AIDS, Blood and Politics," tonight's offering from "Frontline," is the difference between a superficial treatment and serious reporting. "Dateline NBC" did not dig into the real story, which, as tonight's narrator says, is one "of missed opportunities, vested interests and lax regulations."

The "Frontline" investigation goes back to 1981, when a mysterious disease, then known as gay cancer, appeared among homosexuals. Not only would the virus spread rapidly through sexual contact but it would also contaminate the nation's blood supply. Many homosexual men had been giving blood in an effort to help find a vaccine against another disease, hepatitis B, that seemed to attack homosexuals. Some of the blood carried the new disease, soon to be known as AIDS, and entered the ordinary supplies of blood banks and found its way into the veins of people who needed transfusions.

When hemophiliacs, who rely on the injections of a blood product to keep them alive, died of the new disease, doctors at the Centers for Disease Control began to suspect that AIDS was being transmitted by blood. And when reports came in that other blood recipients had been infected, calls for tests of both the blood supply and donors met a powerful resistance that would allow thousands of continuing deaths.

Tonight's report is more about the play of influence in Washington than about strictly medical matters. At first, decision makers were understandably cautious about acting on inconclusive evidence of a connection between the volunteered blood and AIDS, but the resistance continued even as the evidence grew stronger and stronger.

Pressure groups played a part. When one blood bank began asking male volunteers whether they had had a sexual relationship with another man and rejecting those that said yes, homosexual groups protested that they were being discriminated against. The American Red Cross and the American Association of Blood Banks, seemingly seeking any reason not to confront the problem, declared: "Direct or indirect questions about a donor's sexual preference are inappropriate." Critics say that an unwillingness to bear the cost was at the bottom of the resistance of most blood banks to proposals to test donors.

"AIDS, Blood and Politics" comes down particularly hard on the Food and Drug Administration for bowing to political and economic pressures and on the American Red Cross, which collects more than half the nation's blood, for refusing to take action until forced. Even after 1985, when the F.D.A. at length imposed a blood test for volunteers, blood banks were not required to test the blood already in storage. (On Sunday, at 9 P.M., CNN "Special Assignment" presents evidence that Cutter Biological, a division of Miles Pharmaceuticals, sold tainted blood products for use by hemophiliacs in Costa Rica after 1985. The company, which is being sued, denies culpability.)

Finally, in 1988, the F.D.A. and the Red Cross reached a voluntary agreement for yearly inspections of their blood supplies, but the program notes that Red Cross banks in major cities did not live up to it and enforcement was lax, at least until 1993, when the drug agency obtained an injunction against the Red Cross, which was also beset by suits from victims of contaminated blood.

No one knows how many people have received the HIV virus through blood transfusions since 1985, but there is general agreement that the nation's blood supply is now safe. That is reassuring, but there is nothing reassuring about the record of the guardians of America's health as laid out in this strong example of "Frontline" at work. Frontline Aids, Blood and Politics PBS, tonight at 8 (Channel 13 in the New York area)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE5D61330F932A35751C1A9659582 60

[OCA]

LOL AHAHAHAHAHAA

So its ok for a heterosexual to have sex with someone whos bi???

Your basically trying to say that all the straight people who had sex with each other and got HIV are "innocent"...


Yes, AIDS in America originated in the queer choice community.

[OCA]

Not among the world.

Read the source I gave you...

Also, there are prominent theories to suggest that it came from polio vaccines and other injections. Therefore, it cannot be blamed on gay men.


Do you know anything about poulation ratios Einstein? Probably not, most liberals are highly uneducated.

[Guernicaa]

You fear God because you fear a set of standards to live by, you feel you are not capable of living up to a set of standards. I feel you are not able to either, you are a douchebag.

AIDS is God's wrath upon queer choicers.


LOLOL...Your so fucking funny.

This is typical conservative-Christian garbage using biblical lies as facts.

Curiously, ancient Greece, in particular Athens, had a very peaceful society based upon thought, reason, and knowledge.
They were not polluted with the Christian bull shit that today’s societies have been indoctrinated with.

Christianity…your "set of standards" has been the result of 2,000 years of utter chaos and suffering.
From the crusades to the War in Iraq that "god said was ok" (Pat Robertson)...Christianity has brought nothing other than suffering and destruction. It does more harm than good.

Face it, less and less people are going to church. Even conservatives that I go to school who are Christians all say that they do not see a problem with homosexuality. They are real Christians....You are a hate-mongering retard.

[Guernicaa]

Do you know anything about poulation ratios Einstein? Probably not, most liberals are highly uneducated.
lol...wowwwwwwwwwww

So fucking retarded. I feel really bad for you.

Please, ask the majority of college kids what side they consider themselves on. Majority will tell you liberal.

You have no link to the "most liberals are highly uneducated"
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/11/04/youth_came_through_with_big_turnout/

But heres a link that shows that Kerry won the majority of young voters (college kids).

[Pale Rider]

Well... after wading through the mountains of homo apologist horse shit, I see that it still remains a fact that the homosexual lifestyle, here in America, has been proven to be a destructive one. No amount of rhetoric can obscure that.

And another thing is painfully obvious, the homosexual agenda is the most militant, bigoted, frothing at the mouth crowd this country has ever seen. They're even worse than the equal rights crowd. They seek to COMPLETELY silence ANYONE who would voice normal sentiments of disgust to their sickness. That's why I take so much pleasure in doing it here. They can't shut us up here. They HAVE to listen, or leave.

My favorite IGNORANT statement made by the faggot apologists is, "it's just as natural as hetero sex." Every time I hear that, I wonder what biology class it was that taught them that. Fagology 101? :laugh2: