Jury can consider manslaughter charge in Zimmerman trial

[Jeff]

They are trying to railroad this guy anyway they can and it stinks , the judge is completely against GZ her questioning him about taken the stand was ridicules and now they want to add manslaughter charges by way of child abuse , this trial is a bigger joke than the O.J. trial was

After convincing the judge presiding over George Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial to allow jurors to consider manslaughter, prosecutors sent the neighborhood watch volunteer’s defense lawyer into a rage by asking the judge to also include felony murder -- based on child abuse -- in the jury instructions.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/11/closing-arguments-to-begin-in-zimmerman-trial/#ixzz2YkysQGZN

[Thunderknuckles]

It wouldn't be so bad if they had stopped at manslaughter as that is an included lesser charge for murder 2, but throwing in murder 3 based on child abuse is a clear signal that the state is desperate to get Zim convicted of something/anything because they know murder 2 was an over reach and they are in fear of what will happen if Zim walks. If the judge allows murder 3 then she is in on it too! This whole trial is starting to stink.

[Jeff]

It wouldn't be so bad if they had stopped at manslaughter as that is an included lesser charge for murder 2, but throwing in murder 3 based on child abuse is a clear signal that the state is desperate to get Zim convicted of something/anything because they know murder 2 was an over reach and they are in fear of what will happen if Zim walks. If the judge allows murder 3 then she is in on it too! This whole trial is starting to stink.

I have predicated all along he will be found guilty period of something anything just to please the Black community , I will go as far as when he was gone and no one knew where he was before he gave himself up that they made a deal with him again just to please the black community

[aboutime]

I have predicated all along he will be found guilty period of something anything just to please the Black community , I will go as far as when he was gone and no one knew where he was before he gave himself up that they made a deal with him again just to please the black community


Jeff. Totally agree with you. And, the really sad part will be. Even if he is found Guilty. Like every other reason they need, such as after a WIN by their favorite NBA team. There will STILL be RIOTS.

Remember the Rahm Emanuel statement to Obama? "NEVER LET A GOOD CRISIS GO TO WASTE!"

This will become a HOLDER-OBAMA induced Crisis. Just because...THEY CAN!

[Marcus Aurelius]

They are trying to railroad this guy anyway they can and it stinks , the judge is completely against GZ her questioning him about taken the stand was ridicules and now they want to add manslaughter charges by way of child abuse , this trial is a bigger joke than the O.J. trial was

After convincing the judge presiding over George Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial to allow jurors to consider manslaughter, prosecutors sent the neighborhood watch volunteer’s defense lawyer into a rage by asking the judge to also include felony murder -- based on child abuse -- in the jury instructions.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/11/closing-arguments-to-begin-in-zimmerman-trial/#ixzz2YkysQGZN



You read that wrong...


Nelson ruled against the prosecution's request that jurors be able to consider a third-degree felony murder charge based on child abuse.

The manslaughter charge was not based on child abuse, the 3rd degree murder was.

[aboutime]

You read that wrong...



The manslaughter charge was not based on child abuse, the 3rd degree murder was.







Marcus. The prosecution dropping that bomb on the last day to the defense, calling for child abuse and 3rd degree murder seemed more of a political trick than effective law. Sounds like something Holder and Obama might have tried to APPEASE their followers. Just in case a NOT GUILTY verdict came down.
I haven't trusted this court case since it began. No reason to change what I believe now.
So, I do think Zimmerman will be found Guilty of Manslaughter....as a method of preventing the RIOTS that are still gonna happen.

[Robert A Whit]

Jeff: If OJ could slash her throat and his DNA was all over the place and he had motive, yet be found innocent, why not Zimmerman who fought for his life?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus. The prosecution dropping that bomb on the last day to the defense, calling for child abuse and 3rd degree murder seemed more of a political trick than effective law. Sounds like something Holder and Obama might have tried to APPEASE their followers. Just in case a NOT GUILTY verdict came down.
I haven't trusted this court case since it began. No reason to change what I believe now.
So, I do think Zimmerman will be found Guilty of Manslaughter....as a method of preventing the RIOTS that are still gonna happen.

I don't disagree. I was simply stating that it was indeed the 3rd degree murder and not the manslaughter that was based on child abuse.

[Jeff]

Jeff: If OJ could slash her throat and his DNA was all over the place and he had motive, yet be found innocent, why not Zimmerman who fought for his life?

Robert same thing different verdict , OJ should of been guilty but because of skin color he wasn't and GZ should be found innocent but because of skin color he wont be

[Jeff]

Jeff. Totally agree with you. And, the really sad part will be. Even if he is found Guilty. Like every other reason they need, such as after a WIN by their favorite NBA team. There will STILL be RIOTS.

Remember the Rahm Emanuel statement to Obama? "NEVER LET A GOOD CRISIS GO TO WASTE!"

This will become a HOLDER-OBAMA induced Crisis. Just because...THEY CAN!

They have been showing tweets for a week now where just what you are saying many are planning on rioting either way the verdict goes , of course these blow hards tweeting things I am sure for the most part are just running there mouths but who knows , I will be prepared for anything

[Jeff]

You read that wrong...



The manslaughter charge was not based on child abuse, the 3rd degree murder was.






Got ya , either way they have dropped a unexpected Bomb for no other reason than to try to give the furors more ways to hang GZ and at the time I read this the judge still hadn't decided if she would let it go that way or not

[jimnyc]

I know she may have been within her rights - but I didn't like the judge continually badgering Zimmerman yesterday as to whether or not he was going to testify, whether it was his decision or his attorneys and such. Continued badgering him like that gives off the wrong vibe, as if he is doing something wrong. It's his absolute right to not testify, to remain silent. The ONLY time he HAS to speak is when he is pleading. From their on, that's what his attorneys are there for. They tried to intervene and the judge wouldn't allow it and overruled them.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UgDuu6i8MtE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Marcus Aurelius]

I know she may have been within her rights - but I didn't like the judge continually badgering Zimmerman yesterday as to whether or not he was going to testify, whether it was his decision or his attorneys and such. Continued badgering him like that gives off the wrong vibe, as if he is doing something wrong. It's his absolute right to not testify, to remain silent. The ONLY time he HAS to speak is when he is pleading. From their on, that's what his attorneys are there for. They tried to intervene and the judge wouldn't allow it and overruled them.

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UgDuu6i8MtE" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

completely agree. Regardless of who is sitting there, it is their constitutional right to not speak and thus, avoid possible self incrimination.

[jimnyc]

completely agree. Regardless of who is sitting there, it is their constitutional right to not speak and thus, avoid possible self incrimination.

And perhaps the jury wasn't there for the exchange, but it was as if she was trying to show that he wasn't willing to testify. If they don't call him, he doesn't testify. There is no need to make a spectacle about it and bypass his attorneys. IF the jury WAS present, I think it was highly prejudicial and could look like she was trying to imply he was perhaps hiding something. At least that's how some could take it. I've watched a fair amount of this trial and I'm convinced this woman is completely biased. She denied all kinds of things to be allowed from the defense and gave much more leeway to the prosecutors. And then adding in the extra charges here at the end is a scum move IMO too. They only added that when they are now at closing arguments, knowing that their case didn't amount to jack shit for 2nd degree.

[aboutime]

I know she may have been within her rights - but I didn't like the judge continually badgering Zimmerman yesterday as to whether or not he was going to testify, whether it was his decision or his attorneys and such. Continued badgering him like that gives off the wrong vibe, as if he is doing something wrong. It's his absolute right to not testify, to remain silent. The ONLY time he HAS to speak is when he is pleading. From their on, that's what his attorneys are there for. They tried to intervene and the judge wouldn't allow it and overruled them.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UgDuu6i8MtE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


Personally. I think the Judge should have probably been so demanding with Zimmerman in her office, or at a Side Bar where the Jury couldn't hear the questions.
I do think a Judge has the ability/right to ask the accused such questions to make sure...the accused understands he is getting the best representation from his lawyers. Judges need to know HIS RIGHTS are not being trampled. To prevent him appealing later saying...he didn't get a chance to SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

[Robert A Whit]

And perhaps the jury wasn't there for the exchange, but it was as if she was trying to show that he wasn't willing to testify. If they don't call him, he doesn't testify. There is no need to make a spectacle about it and bypass his attorneys. IF the jury WAS present, I think it was highly prejudicial and could look like she was trying to imply he was perhaps hiding something. At least that's how some could take it. I've watched a fair amount of this trial and I'm convinced this woman is completely biased. She denied all kinds of things to be allowed from the defense and gave much more leeway to the prosecutors. And then adding in the extra charges here at the end is a scum move IMO too. They only added that when they are now at closing arguments, knowing that their case didn't amount to jack shit for 2nd degree.

Shade of Judge Lance Ito. You guys may get more coverage than we get in my area.Tell you the truth, I have no dog in that hunt and if he goes down, he will appeal for sure.

[jimnyc]

Personally. I think the Judge should have probably been so demanding with Zimmerman in her office, or at a Side Bar where the Jury couldn't hear the questions.
I do think a Judge has the ability/right to ask the accused such questions to make sure...the accused understands he is getting the best representation from his lawyers. Judges need to know HIS RIGHTS are not being trampled. To prevent him appealing later saying...he didn't get a chance to SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

I agree, I think she had the right. But to do so in front of everyone, not to mention national TV, sure does make a difference. I also agree that a sidebar or judges chambers would have been better suited. And listen to the way she speaks with the attorneys, when Mr. West is very polite and quiet. She's an arrogant fat bitch IMO.

[jimnyc]

Shade of Judge Lance Ito. You guys may get more coverage than we get in my area.Tell you the truth, I have no dog in that hunt and if he goes down, he will appeal for sure.

Ito thought he was a new TV superstar and played up for the cameras. Who knows, maybe this idiot is doing the same. So long as you have CNN, they are airing the entire trial daily. And absolutely he will appeal if he loses, his life is on the line. But here's what I would point out if I were his attorney:


To win a second-degree murder conviction, prosecutors must prove Zimmerman showed ill will, hatred or spite - a burden the defense has argued the state failed to meet. To get a manslaughter conviction, prosecutors must show only that Zimmerman killed without lawful justification.

For the jury of six women to find Zimmerman guilty of second degree murder they must determine that he did something "imminently dangerous" and acted with a "depraved mind without regard to human life," according to Florida statutes. They have to find that Zimmerman acted with "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent."

Anyone watching the trial knows they didn't even come close to proving any of the above.

Then this part:


If jurors believe that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense, then he should be acquitted under either charge. Self-defense means that Zimmerman believed that Martin would kill or gravely injure him, even if he was mistaken, and that belief was "reasonable" given the circumstances and what Zimmerman knew at the time.

I think self defense was easily proven by the experts that testified, specifically the forensics gent that stated he knew for sure that Trayvon was on top, based on the hole in his shirt and where the bullet entry was, showing his shirt was hanging down. He said that if he was on his back, the shirt would have been pressed against his shirt.

I don't think they even came close.

[Robert A Whit]

I agree, I think she had the right. But to do so in front of everyone, not to mention national TV, sure does make a difference. I also agree that a sidebar or judges chambers would have been better suited. And listen to the way she speaks with the attorneys, when Mr. West is very polite and quiet. She's an arrogant fat bitch IMO.

The 5 pm news comes on soon so I will try to figure out what is going on.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They are trying to railroad this guy anyway they can and it stinks , the judge is completely against GZ her questioning him about taken the stand was ridicules and now they want to add manslaughter charges by way of child abuse , this trial is a bigger joke than the O.J. trial was

After convincing the judge presiding over George Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial to allow jurors to consider manslaughter, prosecutors sent the neighborhood watch volunteer’s defense lawyer into a rage by asking the judge to also include felony murder -- based on child abuse -- in the jury instructions.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/11/closing-arguments-to-begin-in-zimmerman-trial/#ixzz2YkysQGZN

A showcase trial for liberals and government leeches to see. They want to destroy an innocent man for political capital in the 2014 elections. Doesn't matter how, doesn't matter if he is innocent, doesn't matter he is not a whitey, all that matters is they get to satisfy the hate coming from those that hate whitey! A travesty of justice his even being charged, a travesty of justice that the grand jury trial was skipped, a travesty of justice the shenanigans the prosecutors are engaging in. The entire thing has been an indulgence in hatred and corruption coming from people that haven't an ounce of honor and most of the ffing scum can not even spell the word either way, honor or honour. Most of them have never ever considered the value of a man's life or the fact that looking to lynch an innocent man is exactly what many of them objected to having happened to black men long ago. And even that reasoning omits any consideration of the fact that its very likely most of those lynched were actually guilty of the crime charged. Only the lynching was wrong because ALL deserve a fair trial. My grandfather told me of his seeing a lynching about 40 years before and hearing the accused man admit to raping and killing the white woman but saying he didn't mean to choke her so long . Only wanted to choke her out and then leave her, didn't mean to kill her. His guilt was confirmed but still lynching him was wrong. He still should have had his day in court. I agreed with my grandfather and I was only ten years old back then. Zimmerman did not get his grand jury trial that would have acquitted him!!!! Very unusual that was skipped!!! Definitely points to what has been done to the man since this thing started. And don't think it couldn't happen to you!!!! Nobody is immune when pure ffing crap like this is allowed and even praised!! Thank Obama for this and the son he would have had that would have looked like "little" 6' Trayvon... -Tyr

[aboutime]

I agree, I think she had the right. But to do so in front of everyone, not to mention national TV, sure does make a difference. I also agree that a sidebar or judges chambers would have been better suited. And listen to the way she speaks with the attorneys, when Mr. West is very polite and quiet. She's an arrogant fat bitch IMO.


Totally agree on the ARROGANT, FAT, BIATCH. I said that in order NOT to offend Bitches.

[red state]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by aboutime http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=651678#post651678)
Personally. I think the Judge should have probably been so demanding with Zimmerman in her office, or at a Side Bar where the Jury couldn't hear the questions.
I do think a Judge has the ability/right to ask the accused such questions to make sure...the accused understands he is getting the best representation from his lawyers. Judges need to know HIS RIGHTS are not being trampled. To prevent him appealing later saying...he didn't get a chance to SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

.....and with all due respect; the judge had about as much right (in my personal opinion) to go over his TWO attorneys or harass him over and Over and OVER as B.O. and Holder had in sending their "boys" down to the SOUTH with OUR tax money to show em dar hicks who's the boss and reverse a decision made by capable law enforcement as to the FACT of self defense. I'm no judge or attorney but with Zimmerman being a son of a judge, I bet he knew it was out of order or the norm. He said that he decided not to take the stand after discussing it with his lawyers so that should have been that. Besides.....he had already testified to some degree by their playing the Hannity segment from last year. All the judge was doing was trying to make him look guilty in some KraZy leftist way OR hoped that he would take the stand so that the prosecutors could go on and on and on for hours picking at his account just as they did with the animator. Boy, I sure am glad that I didn't take that job in Memphis several years ago as illustrator/animator for the big dog law firms up there....I had no idea that such folks could be called to testify (much less be hounded as that guy was). The entire procedure (from B.O. and crew to the judge to all the media has been one HUGE bully tactic).

I believe the lawyers had concluded with their part so if they rested, and if everyone were preparing closing arguments then the judge was (at the very least) out of order in the timing of her questioning. This should have been done before the prosecution rested....not when it came time for his attorneys to close.

I'll be surprised if Z get out of this unscaved; at the very least, he'll have to move somewhere more civil (as Rev. Jessie Jackson would say) a dark place where you hear footsteps behind you and as you turn in fear you are relieved to see two white guys. If Z knows what's good for him, he'll go where America is still great and leave the sewers of America to the rats, roaches and other vermin. I even feel for his family so it may be that he'd sacrifice himself in order for them to be safe. Look, whether he's found TOTALLY innocent or serves a year in jail.....he's a dead man if he isn't placed in solitude confinement or is able to start a life somewhere else (under witness protection or something). We'll see and I hope I'm 100% wrong on all of this but I'll be surprised if I am wrong.

[red state]

What will be a heck of a note is (IF) Z is denied a carry permit after all of this (or at least on some sort of probation). If ever he needed a gun it is NOW. FL is not an open carry State (not by definition that other Southern States recognize anyway). They are only allowed to "carry" while going to their deer stand, blind or target range so they'll probably be on Z like white on rice and black on .......well, you get the point. He'll definitely need to move to a more FREE, tolerant and lawfully Constitutional State if he is to even THINK of surviving the ordeal. I think he should be given a medal for what he did cuz he could have very well saved another house wife a beating from an invader like we saw several weeks ago. Just another lost youth in my opinion who was feeling his oats, saw short fat WHITE looking guy that was easy pickin's but it didn't turn out that way.

You know, in Martin's defense, I don't think he was actually going to intentionally kill Z but if any of us get anything out of this, it'll teach us all that you simply can't go attacking folks because they looked like a Creepy Cracka' or something. You just can't. Who knows, there's still much that we'll NEVER know about Martin and if not for TRUE reporting, we'd never found out about the drug use, the stashing of drugs at school, the terrible online appearances, the failures after failures from a broken home. He may have unintentionally killed or perhaps he's killed before but the fact remains that the very next blow on a hard edge of concrete could have very well killed Z. I'm glad he was able to get to his sidearm and I'm glad he was able to regain and KEEP his firearm from Martin.....otherwise, we would have NEVER heard this story....NEVER. It would have been just another black on "white" violence.

[red state]

gotta go...my two birthday girls are back from shopping and we're all going out to eat...ya'll have at it and pray for the Z man.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________

Prosecutor Rich Mantei also sought to have the jury consider a third degree murder charge with the supporting felony being child abuse for shooting the teenager. Nelson rejected his argument, but not before an outburst by West.
"Just when I thought this case could not get any more bizarre the state is seeking third degree on child abuse," said West. "This was a trick."
"I don't want to hear the word trick anymore," the judge said after West used it again. She later admonished him for repeatedly disagreeing with her rulings on other jury instructions.
Lead defense attorney Mark O'Mara says Zimmerman is concerned that even if he is acquitted, he would spend the rest of his life locked in the confines of his security regimen – hiding from the public and concealing his identity.

[tailfins]

What will be a heck of a note is (IF) Z is denied a carry permit after all of this (or at least on some sort of probation). If ever he needed a gun it is NOW. FL is not an open carry State (not by definition that other Southern States recognize anyway). They are only allowed to "carry" while going to their deer stand, blind or target range so they'll probably be on Z like white on rice and black on .......well, you get the point. He'll definitely need to move to a more FREE, tolerant and lawfully Constitutional State if he is to even THINK of surviving the ordeal. I think he should be given a medal for what he did cuz he could have very well saved another house wife a beating from an invader like we saw several weeks ago. Just another lost youth in my opinion who was feeling his oats, saw short fat WHITE looking guy that was easy pickin's but it didn't turn out that way.

You know, in Martin's defense, I don't think he was actually going to intentionally kill Z but if any of us get anything out of this, it'll teach us all that you simply can't go attacking folks because they looked like a Creepy Cracka' or something. You just can't. Who knows, there's still much that we'll NEVER know about Martin and if not for TRUE reporting, we'd never found out about the drug use, the stashing of drugs at school, the terrible online appearances, the failures after failures from a broken home. He may have unintentionally killed or perhaps he's killed before but the fact remains that the very next blow on a hard edge of concrete could have very well killed Z. I'm glad he was able to get to his sidearm and I'm glad he was able to regain and KEEP his firearm from Martin.....otherwise, we would have NEVER heard this story....NEVER. It would have been just another black on "white" violence.


Generally, people on probation are not allowed to leave the state. What will be the reaction if Florida sets him up to be killed?

[jimnyc]

Normally don't like this site, but many quotes and other things in this article mirror my own thoughts. I don't personally believe the Obama administration is behind any of it, but also wouldn't be shocked to find out otherwise. I just think this judge sucks and is biased.


Speculation is raging that the judge in the George Zimmerman case could have been put under pressure by the Obama administration after she staged a bizarre outburst during which she interrogated Zimmerman while repeatedly silencing his lawyers.

The hostile exchange began when Judge Debra Nelson asked Zimmerman if he planned to testify.

Essentially, Judge Nelson told Zimmerman he had the “absolute right to remain silent” but then proceeded to demand he answer her questions interrogation-style while silencing his lawyers.

Defense attorney Don West twice objected to Nelson’s interrogation, prompting the judge to raised her voice and exclaim, “Your objection is overruled!” in a manner more befitting of an angry parent lecturing a child than a legal professional.

Both of Zimmerman’s lawyers appeared shocked as attorney Mark O’Mara asked under his breath, “what is going on?”

Several legal experts and observers said the outburst was unprecedented.

“I have never seen that in more than 30 years of court reporting,” tweeted journalist Kathi Belich.

Former Senatorial candidate Richard Rivette also expressed his shock at the judge’s behavior.

“This judge is an idiot. I spent five years investigating high profile capital cases defending people from the death penalty, and worked for the Federal judiciary as an independent investigator on other cases. No judge ever inquires as to whether a defendant will testify until the entire defense case is presented. If the defense rests and does not call the defendant then the judge knows there will be no testimony. If the defense calls the defendant then that’s when the judge finds out. They have to get through the entire case first. To see if it is valid after prosecution cross-examines their witnesses and experts as to whether a defendant SHOULD testify, which is decided in private not in public, and NOT on the record. By doing this, the judge has undermined a portion of Zimmerman’s credibility. He looks like he is waffling and this is normal judge/defendant questioning, which it is NOT,” said Rivette.

..........

“By demanding that Zimmerman respond to a question, after she has assured him that he has the right to remain silent, she is undermining his right to remain silent and making it appear as though he and his attorneys are not firm in their convictions. This judge is shameless,” added another.

Judge Nelson also ruled this week that Trayvon Martin’s text messages, which showed that Martin had been involved in fights before and was trying to buy or sell a gun, cannot be shown to the jury, which some suggested was another indication of an anti-Zimmerman bias.

Nelson also granted a request by prosecutors to block the defense’s attempt to show the jury a computer-animated depiction of the fight between Martin and Zimmerman.

..........

Judge Nelson has been very careful at every stage of the trial to dismiss evidence or testimony that could convince the jury in favor of acquitting Zimmerman.

Now some are asking the question – did Nelson’s aggressive outburst represent an attempt to prejudice the jury against Zimmerman?

http://www.infowars.com/judge-in-zimmerman-case-pressured-by-obama-administration/

[Marcus Aurelius]

The judges behavior regarding Zimmerman and his right to not testify could be grounds for appeal and/or retrial.

[Jeff]

Normally don't like this site, but many quotes and other things in this article mirror my own thoughts. I don't personally believe the Obama administration is behind any of it, but also wouldn't be shocked to find out otherwise. I just think this judge sucks and is biased.



http://www.infowars.com/judge-in-zimmerman-case-pressured-by-obama-administration/

Jim I believe Obama is behind it all the way that is why he got involved in the first place , in any war the easiest way to win is thin the army and that is exactly what Obama is trying to do , not so much thin but rather divide , as long as we as Americans are divided , Black and white , Conservative and Liberal , rich and poor , you got the idea and if you look back over the last 5 years he has put a divide between each of the groups I have spoke about and more , as I read on the board , in the news yes people are ready to fight and ready to protect what is theirs whether it is the constitution or there own property but what Obama likes to see if they are willing to protect there own , no army can win if not united and that is Obama's game plan keep the forces divided and he can surely conquer let them unite and he will lose .

This is why he got involved in the first place think about it the blacks feel as though there president is actually showing his black side , " the police acted stupidly " if I had a son he would look like Trayvon " these are comments made by a uneducated person , like him or hate him ya have to admit although we have not seen his grades Obama did go to some fine schools ( he isn't stupid he just plays that way ) so know he has black and white divided , then he supports the Muslims (who they say now where responsible for Benghazi )again not a problem the libs will follow him blindly as will the Dimocrats so he has just drawn another big line in the sand Christians against Muslims , and then ya have all the free stuff giving to those who deserve nothing another well thought out plan , ya now have the rich or working class against the poor or disabled , Obama has been steadily dividing the country to be able to win anything that comes along , United we stand divided we fall

What he didn't figure in was losing the battle of taking our guns, he thought for sure he had enough going on in Congress and the House to push anything threw and if they wouldn't do it he would just write executive orders but no he soon realized he couldn't get the vote to get rid of them or was he going to be able to just push through with executive orders so he preyed on the less educated with the whole assault rifle ban , he has the uneducated believing these guns are fully automatic , he has the uneducated believing Mags that hold more than 10 rounds are for wars only and his last ditch effort was to bring children who have been through so much and parade them across the country ( his speech on TV , the super bowl ect...) all in the name of getting these kids back to normal well the norm I knew as a kid didn't include watching a idiot president sign 23 executive orders that would amount to nothing more than a plea to the uneducated or did the norm have me going to the super bowl let alone being part of it and lets talk about Newton the first reports came out that the shooting happened and afterwards they had found a Bush master rifle (AR 15 ) in a vehicle which turned out to be that of the shooter , then it all changed and that gun was used in the shooting ( I know this because I watched the news all the way through it that day and watched the first reports , I also argued on Fb that they had said they found the rifle before the shooting so why didn't they shut down and a police officer on my page explained I must of heard wrong and he posted a clip of them carrying a rifle and saying how they had found it after the shooting so yes he proved me wrong but it also proved how could that gun of been used by the shooter if it was sitting in his car ) And lets not forget he t want our guns :rolleyes: but he wants to outlaw a 223 rifle but allow a 30-06 to be legal , it is twice as powerful , hell if the shooter used two forty caliber hand guns he had way more fire power than he did with a AR 15 with 30 in the Mag ,but the uneducated don't know this, Mags can be bought for hand guns or should I say have been sold by the millions that will hold 23 rounds and on up , look at the difference between the piece of lead coming from a 40 compared to a 223 , Obama just is preying on the uneducated and praying there are enough of them to push his bills through because although these bills aren't taken our guns right now they all have some kind of National registry another words in order to keep them you must let them know exactly what you own and guess what comes next and lets not forget he postponed the UN bill until he was reelected and within 12 hours of wining he was on the horn pushing this , this is the last straw before he starts a takeover if we lose the right to bear arms we lose everything at this point .

[Jeff]

The easiest way to win any war is to divide and conquer and turning neighbor against neighbor will do the job, we all since 9/11 know that if someone comes into a store to buy unreal amounts of fertilizer to have him/her checked out but now Obama wants to push it beyond good common sense

Only days after Barack Obama ordered all federal workers (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/07/09/196211/linchpin-for-obamas-plan-to-predict.html#.Udyr7W0U8Uw) to watch their colleagues and report whatever suspicious behavior, the FBI has rolled out a video encouraging everyone in the nation’s retail industry to call police when there are unanswered questions.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/spy-vs-spy-feds-now-want-reports-from-retailers/

[red state]

The judges behavior regarding Zimmerman and his right to not testify could be grounds for appeal and/or retrial.

Exactly!!! I'd go as far as change your term "retrial" to MIS TRIAL for much of what has gone on during this entire process.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Exactly!!! I'd go as far as change your term "retrial" to MIS TRIAL for much of what has gone on during this entire process.

Doubtful the judge would declare a mistrial over her own actions.