Ramadan Prayers Broadcasts in UK ... [Archive] - Debate Policy

Drummond

07-03-2013, 02:34 PM

Us Brits have a 'treat' in store, courtesy of one of our mainstream terrestrial TV broadcasters. I'm referring to the UK's 'Channel 4', which has decided to broadcast the early morning 'call to prayer' throughout Ramadan.

It's the first time we've ever seen this undertaken by a British broadcaster.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2353250/Channel-4-broadcast-daily-Muslim-prayer-Ramadan-month.html

Channel 4 is to broadcast the Muslim call to prayer during Ramadan this year, it revealed yesterday.

It is believed to be the first time a mainstream British television channel has broadcast the Islamic call to prayer.

Starting next week, the broadcaster will transmit the morning call to prayer daily for the 30 days of Ramadan.

Channel 4’s head of factual programming Ralph Lee said the channel would act as a ‘nationwide tannoy system’ for Britain’s 2.8million Muslims while they observed Ramadan.

He said almost five per cent of the British population would ‘actively engage’ in Ramadan this month, adding: ‘Can we say the same of other national events that have received blanket coverage on television such as the Queen’s coronation anniversary?’

Critics questioned whether the decision to transmit the call to prayer was a ‘publicity-seeking stunt’ by the controversial broadcaster.

Mr Lee said Ramadan usually received minimal coverage on Britain’s main television channels and said he believed Channel 4’s series of programmes during July and August was chance for Britain’s moderate Muslims to be heard.

Earlier this year the channel was criticised for giving militant Anjem Choudary, the former head of banned Islamist organisation Al Muhajiroun, a platform to air his views.

Choudary and radical Islamist Abu Nusaybah were given a slot of the broadcaster’s 4thought.TV, a two-minute opinion show which airs immediately after Channel 4 News’ nightly bulletin.

Mr Lee told the Radio Times that most television coverage of Islam was linked to terrorism or extremism. He said: ‘Even when moderate Muslims do appear, it’s often only to provide a counterpoint to these issues.

‘Following the horrific events in Woolwich and subsequent reprisals against British Muslims, there has surely never been a more pressing need to give a voice to the moderate mainstream majority.’

The call to prayer is usually delivered from a mosque and is sometimes relayed by loudspeaker. There are five calls to prayer a day but Channel 4 said it would only broadcast the first morning call to prayer each day. All the daily prayers will be played on the channel’s website.

It will be delivered by musician Hassen Rasool and accompanied by a three-minute video showing him outside various London landmarks, including St Paul’s Cathedral.

The first broadcast will be next Tuesday (July 9), the first day of Ramadan, at 3am.

Muslims around the world fast between sunrise and sunset during Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar. Channel 4 will also include the sunrise and sunset times during its weather reports.

The broadcaster said it had consulted Muslim clerics about its series of Ramadan programmes.

Mr Lee said: ‘The calls to prayer prompt Muslims to carry out quiet moments of worship, but hopefully they’ll also make other viewers sit up and notice that this event is taking place.

‘No doubt Channel 4 will be criticised for focusing attention on a “minority” religion but that’s what we’re here to do - provide space for the alternative and a voice to the under-represented.’

His comments attracted some criticism among far-Right groups and commentators. A group called Britain First, which describes itself as a ‘patriotic political movement’, said on Twitter: ‘Get ready for a month’s worth of TV programmes pandering to Islam courtesy of Channel 4.’

The group’s followers expressed outrage about the decision, including calls for a boycott of Channel 4.

I'm sure Jafar will be delighted. Does this mark the increasing Islamification of Britain ? Well .. I see no reason not to think so. Having done this once, Channel 4 will doubtless do it again, and in the process, make sure that these broadcasts become seen as 'normal'.

Missileman

07-03-2013, 03:54 PM

aboutime

07-03-2013, 06:01 PM

Sir Drummond. All of you should keep this in mind while IGNORING channel 4.

http://youtu.be/l-ceg763Voc

Announcing the Condition of the Former United Kingdom.

jafar00

07-03-2013, 11:21 PM

aboutime

07-04-2013, 02:15 PM

Sir Drummond. How bout we Colony types over here across the pond start demanding the BBC also Broadcast

someone saying the "LORD'S PRAYER" in the same manner?

What kind of arguments do you think we might hear if that took place?

Seems fair to me. And probably fair to Atheist types as well...since they probably don't care to listen during Ramadan either.

aboutime

07-04-2013, 02:22 PM

<strike> JAFAR</strike>

Drummond

07-04-2013, 03:24 PM

What's wrong with it exactly?

Well, to you, nothing at all. That's a 'given'.

Me ... well, I'd like to think that Britain was definably BRITAIN, and not slowly turning into the kind of Caliphate-style entity that Anjem Choudary fervently wants.

Imagine how you'd feel if the Middle East turned increasingly Christian, with Islam marginalised in even its greatest strongholds. You might eventually get to miss all the beheadings ...

Don't worry Drummond. You will be treated to the usual Christmas shows on TV, Christmas carols in the supermarket/shopping mall, and Pagan Christmas trees everywhere in November/December as usual to help you forget about your viewing being disturbed with hearing a call to prayer at 4am on the TV.

Perhaps, though moves are gathering pace, have been for years, to start referring to Christmas as the 'Winter Solstice'. Nativity plays have been known to be banned by local councils for fear of upsetting 'ethnic minorities', such as, Muslims ..

These things gather pace, encroach, by slow, creeping degrees. Even if you're correct right now, will you be, a decade from now ?

I'm sure the thought delights you, Jafar.

Seriously, are you usually up at 4am every day watching BBC? I can't imagine it inconveniencing too many people at that time.

It has been known.

But in any case, you are well aware that morning prayers at that unearthly hour are what Muslims go in for. It must be hell for the neighbours ....

Right now, this Ramadan succession of broadcasts are totally new, and considered controversial. Give it a couple of years, with Channel 4 trying its luck again, it'll seem more normal. It'll be accepted, and the current dissenters will likely fall silent. And yet more of our real identity will have been encroached upon, redefined.

jafar00

07-04-2013, 03:48 PM

Well, to you, nothing at all. That's a 'given'.

Me ... well, I'd like to think that Britain was definably BRITAIN, and not slowly turning into the kind of Caliphate-style entity that Anjem Choudary fervently wants.

Imagine how you'd feel if the Middle East turned increasingly Christian, with Islam marginalised in even its greatest strongholds. You might eventually get to miss all the beheadings ...

Perhaps, though moves are gathering pace, have been for years, to start referring to Christmas as the 'Winter Solstice'. Nativity plays have been known to be banned by local councils for fear of upsetting 'ethnic minorities', such as, Muslims ..

These things gather pace, encroach, by slow, creeping degrees. Even if you're correct right now, will you be, a decade from now ?

I'm sure the thought delights you, Jafar.

It has been known.

But in any case, you are well aware that morning prayers at that unearthly hour are what Muslims go in for. It must be hell for the neighbours ....

Right now, this Ramadan succession of broadcasts are totally new, and considered controversial. Give it a couple of years, with Channel 4 trying its luck again, it'll seem more normal. It'll be accepted, and the current dissenters will likely fall silent. And yet more of our real identity will have been encroached upon, redefined.

Honestly I think you BNP people are worried about nothing. Exactly how does it disturb you if I get up at 4am to pray?

I agree with you about wiping out Christmas though. The PC brigade is pussy footing around trying to not offend us, but as Muslims living in a non Muslim country, we don't mind if you want to celebrate your festivals around us. It doesn't offend us at all. Just don't ask us to participate past giving you well wishes for your celebrations.

Drummond

07-04-2013, 03:59 PM

So there are no Sunday morning Christian church shows on UK TV? Our airwaves are loaded with them in the US...mostly local.

You may be interested to know that the answer to your question is a firm 'NO'. We do not have that happen in the UK.

Religious broadcasts, Christian ones, do happen on the 'Christian Channel', which isn't exactly surprising .. though the company responsible for running it ALSO run a Muslim-dedicated TV channel as well. There are also church broadcasts in the morning, though they're relegated to radio .. specifically, BBC Radio 4 (the BBC World Service radio station probably outputs one as well). Otherwise, the nearest ANY of the principle TV channels will get to a 'religious' broadcast will be in terms of discussion programmes, which may OR MAY NOT talk about Christianity ... 'The Big Questions' was one discussion programme shown at 10AM on BBC-1, and it often dealt with Christian issues. Equally, it often dealt with Muslim ones, too.

... and Anjem Choudary has been a guest speaker on that very programme a number of times ...

The BBC has, for decades, run 'Songs of Praise' .. traditionally a church service programme featuring hymn singing, hence the title. This programme has always been shown in the evening, however. It used to be shown on the 'flagship' channel, BBC-1. It's now relegated to BBC-2.

I'll tell you what the BBC does plan to show us at 12:20PM this coming Sunday, though. Billed as 'to coincide with Ramadan', they'll screen a programme which examines the impact Muslims have had on our Premier football league !!

So, Missileman, there's your answer. I wonder if it surprises you.

I bet I know one contributor here who'll definitely not be surprised .. as after all, he once lived here himself.

I refer to JAFAR, of course.

Drummond

07-04-2013, 04:28 PM

Honestly I think you BNP people are worried about nothing. Exactly how does it disturb you if I get up at 4am to pray?

What do you mean, 'you BNP people' ?

I am not a member of the BNP. I would never dream of being a member of the BNP. The BNP is known to be - BECAUSE IT IS !! - A RACIST ORGANISATION.

I regard that as a very cheap and insulting jibe, Jafar, one I do not deserve. What's more perhaps to the point is that you're deliberately trying to make this a racist issue, when this has nothing to do with race or racial prejudice. And that is an old 'standby' trick, by the way, that Muslims fall back on, to try and unfairly marginalise their opposition.

Prove to me that Muslims are 'a race of people' .. but, YOU CANNOT. Islamists can be caucasian Brits, born to white parents, of British stock rooted in the UK going back a century or more. What was Richard Reid, if not a white Brit ?

I agree with you about wiping out Christmas though. The PC brigade is pussy footing around trying to not offend us, but as Muslims living in a non Muslim country, we don't mind if you want to celebrate your festivals around us. It doesn't offend us at all. Just don't ask us to participate past giving you well wishes for your celebrations.

.. which proves one thing, doesn't it ? The Muslim insistence upon not integrating into the social fabric of the society they choose to live in.

HOWEVER - you DO insist that, regardless of where you choose to live and who you inflict your customs and beliefs upon, that those around you defer to you, show your religion, your ways, respect. A manifestation of this is seen where Sharia Councils are concerned.

Sharia Law is not English law. But still, you run Sharia Courts, which issue Sharia pronouncements. These don't always coincide with British law. But that doesn't stop them from trying their luck.

And, WHY ? BECAUSE THEY HOPE TO ACHIEVE A LONG-TERM EROSIVE EFFECT WHICH HAS US DEFER TO THEM MORE AND MORE.

aboutime

07-04-2013, 05:31 PM

What do you mean, 'you BNP people' ?

I am not a member of the BNP. I would never dream of being a member of the BNP. The BNP is known to be - BECAUSE IT IS !! - A RACIST ORGANISATION.

I regard that as a very cheap and insulting jibe, Jafar, one I do not deserve. What's more perhaps to the point is that you're deliberately trying to make this a racist issue, when this has nothing to do with race or racial prejudice. And that is an old 'standby' trick, by the way, that Muslims fall back on, to try and unfairly marginalise their opposition.

Prove to me that Muslims are 'a race of people' .. but, YOU CANNOT. Islamists can be caucasian Brits, born to white parents, of British stock rooted in the UK going back a century or more. What was Richard Reid, if not a white Brit ?

.. which proves one thing, doesn't it ? The Muslim insistence upon not integrating into the social fabric of the society they choose to live in.

HOWEVER - you DO insist that, regardless of where you choose to live and who you inflict your customs and beliefs upon, that those around you defer to you, show your religion, your ways, respect. A manifestation of this is seen where Sharia Councils are concerned.

Sharia Law is not English law. But still, you run Sharia Courts, which issue Sharia pronouncements. These don't always coincide with British law. But that doesn't stop them from trying their luck.

And, WHY ? BECAUSE THEY HOPE TO ACHIEVE A LONG-TERM EROSIVE EFFECT WHICH HAS US DEFER TO THEM MORE AND MORE.

Sir Drummond. He did the same thing again. Whenever jafar's cause is challenged in any way, making him look dumber than he makes himself look to us. The only defense jafar has is...to begin making accusations, and the typical blame game crap he has become so well known for here.
Treat jafar like a bug on your windshield (windscreen) that splattered all over. It had no life before, and it certainly has no life now.

Missileman

07-04-2013, 05:43 PM

You may be interested to know that the answer to your question is a firm 'NO'. We do not have that happen in the UK.

Religious broadcasts, Christian ones, do happen on the 'Christian Channel', which isn't exactly surprising .. though the company responsible for running it ALSO run a Muslim-dedicated TV channel as well. There are also church broadcasts in the morning, though they're relegated to radio .. specifically, BBC Radio 4 (the BBC World Service radio station probably outputs one as well). Otherwise, the nearest ANY of the principle TV channels will get to a 'religious' broadcast will be in terms of discussion programmes, which may OR MAY NOT talk about Christianity ... 'The Big Questions' was one discussion programme shown at 10AM on BBC-1, and it often dealt with Christian issues. Equally, it often dealt with Muslim ones, too.

... and Anjem Choudary has been a guest speaker on that very programme a number of times ...

The BBC has, for decades, run 'Songs of Praise' .. traditionally a church service programme featuring hymn singing, hence the title. This programme has always been shown in the evening, however. It used to be shown on the 'flagship' channel, BBC-1. It's now relegated to BBC-2.

I'll tell you what the BBC does plan to show us at 12:20PM this coming Sunday, though. Billed as 'to coincide with Ramadan', they'll screen a programme which examines the impact Muslims have had on our Premier football league !!

So, Missileman, there's your answer. I wonder if it surprises you.

I bet I know one contributor here who'll definitely not be surprised .. as after all, he once lived here himself.

I refer to JAFAR, of course.

Sounds like we have way more local broadcasting here in the US. I would probably have to live in your neck of the woods for a few months to know whether that's a good thing or not.

Drummond

07-04-2013, 06:25 PM

Sounds like we have way more local broadcasting here in the US. I would probably have to live in your neck of the woods for a few months to know whether that's a good thing or not.

I think that's true. America, being such a large territory, would naturally have more local broadcasting. We certainly have ours as well, but there can't be the same need or latitude for it.

One thing I don't get, though, is why religious broadcasting is identifiable with 'local' broadcasting, as such, at all. Don't you have nationwide channels that would share the same enthusiasm for this ?

Drummond

07-04-2013, 06:32 PM

Sir Drummond. He did the same thing again. Whenever jafar's cause is challenged in any way, making him look dumber than he makes himself look to us. The only defense jafar has is...to begin making accusations, and the typical blame game crap he has become so well known for here.
Treat jafar like a bug on your windshield (windscreen) that splattered all over. It had no life before, and it certainly has no life now.

Good post, good advice, too.

Jafar knows the English character well, since he lived here for a number of years. He doubtless thought I'd be prey to the political correctness regime which he'll have familiarity with, and thought he could manipulate me through it.

Jafar doesn't know me ... clearly.

jafar00

07-04-2013, 08:54 PM

What do you mean, 'you BNP people' ?

I am not a member of the BNP. I would never dream of being a member of the BNP. The BNP is known to be - BECAUSE IT IS !! - A RACIST ORGANISATION.

Well, you do wear your prejudice on your sleeve for all to see. You talk exactly like them. Maybe I was wrong. I'm guessing you are EDL then.

Prove to me that Muslims are 'a race of people' .. but, YOU CANNOT. Islamists can be caucasian Brits, born to white parents, of British stock rooted in the UK going back a century or more. What was Richard Reid, if not a white Brit ?

Islam is not restricted by race, this is true but we are all one Umma (community or nation), brothers and sisters to each other.

.. which proves one thing, doesn't it ? The Muslim insistence upon not integrating into the social fabric of the society they choose to live in.

What do you want us to do? Celebrate Christmas by eating too much ham and getting smashed on Aunty Doris's eggnog after running up a huge credit bill on presents, then have a fry up including bacon and hair of the dog for boxing day breakfast?

No thanks. Been there, done that. You can have it ;)

HOWEVER - you DO insist that, regardless of where you choose to live and who you inflict your customs and beliefs upon, that those around you defer to you, show your religion, your ways, respect. A manifestation of this is seen where Sharia Councils are concerned.

Exactly how are we imposing our will on you? On the Sharia courts issue you have over there I think all it needs it is central oversight so those Pakistani taliban types don't try to bring their deviant wahhabi ways to your shores.

aboutime

07-05-2013, 02:50 PM

I think that's true. America, being such a large territory, would naturally have more local broadcasting. We certainly have ours as well, but there can't be the same need or latitude for it.

One thing I don't get, though, is why religious broadcasting is identifiable with 'local' broadcasting, as such, at all. Don't you have nationwide channels that would share the same enthusiasm for this ?

Sir Drummond. This may be late in my response but. Everything you mentioned above is the result of OUR 1ST AMENDMENT.

Freedom of Speech is something we have much pride in here, as you obviously know.

Problem is. Having such Freedom here, is seen as being anti-everything, and everyone outside of the U.S.A.

We also have the same kind of negative reactions here to such broadcasting over the airwaves of both radio, and tv. But most of it makes good use of the "ON-OFF" 5202 switch, or Remote Controller idea that CEASES so easily for those who claim to be insulted, or offended by being FORCED to listen, or watch.
Stupid still is...As Stupid does. No matter where you happen to be on Earth.

Noir

07-05-2013, 03:13 PM

So there are no Sunday morning Christian church shows on UK TV?

You may be interested to know that the answer to your question is a firm 'NO'. We do not have that happen in the UK. Religious broadcasts, Christian ones, do happen on the 'Christian Channel', which isn't exactly surprising ..

The BBC has, for decades, run 'Songs of Praise' .. traditionally a church service programme featuring hymn singing, hence the title. This programme has always been shown in the evening, however. It used to be shown on the 'flagship' channel, BBC-1. It's now relegated to BBC-2.

So by no you mean, um, yes?

Abbey Marie

07-05-2013, 03:15 PM

What's wrong with it exactly?

Don't worry Drummond. You will be treated to the usual Christmas shows on TV, Christmas carols in the supermarket/shopping mall, and Pagan Christmas trees everywhere in November/December as usual to help you forget about your viewing being disturbed with hearing a call to prayer at 4am on the TV.

Seriously, are you usually up at 4am every day watching BBC? I can't imagine it inconveniencing too many people at that time.
Every one of those things you mentioned has been secularized to the point of not even knowing what Christmas really means anymore. Can the same be said of your call to prayer? Yeah, didn't think so.

Noir

07-05-2013, 03:18 PM

Also Songs of Praise does still feature on BBC1, here's the synopsis of the next SoP episode to be aired.

Abbey Marie

07-05-2013, 03:19 PM

Question: Are Channel 4 and BBC the same thing?

Noir

07-05-2013, 03:25 PM

Question: Are Channel 4 and BBC the same thing?

Nope, channel 4 are a private company, where the BBC are state funded. Though it is a terrestrial channel, i.e. Any television with an antenna can get BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5, because of this it has some service obligations (like dedicated news time slots)

Channel 4 is most known for being a channel that likes to 'push boundaries' and give young/new to the scene writers their first breakthroughs.

Missileman

07-05-2013, 03:44 PM

cadet

07-05-2013, 03:47 PM

IMO on this entire thread. Who gives a damn? There's christian broadcasts everywhere there's a christian population. There's muslim brodcasts where there's a muslim population.
I'm sure there's buddhist broadcasts in india. If you don't want the other broadcasts, you're gonna have to get rid of the part of the population that it's catering to.

And can someone yell at Google to please fix the damn auto correct? Every freaking religion needs to be capitalized except christian to be a "correct spelling".
Right there's your war on Christianity.

aboutime

07-05-2013, 03:55 PM

Abbey Marie

07-05-2013, 04:16 PM

Nope, channel 4 are a private company, where the BBC are state funded. Though it is a terrestrial channel, i.e. Any television with an antenna can get BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5, because of this it has some service obligations (like dedicated news time slots)

Channel 4 is most known for being a channel that likes to 'push boundaries' and give young/new to the scene writers their first breakthroughs.

Thanks. The OP mentioned it was going to be on Channel 4, but then the thread started using BBC as the example.

jafar00

07-05-2013, 04:53 PM

Every one of those things you mentioned has been secularized to the point of not even knowing what Christmas really means anymore. Can the same be said of your call to prayer? Yeah, didn't think so.

At least there is no ambiguity. The call to prayer is just that.

The translation of the morning call to prayer is...

God is Great
God is Great
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Hurry to the prayer
Hurry to the prayer
Hurry to success
Hurry to success
Prayer is better than sleep
Prayer is better than sleep
God is Great
God is Great
There is no god except the One God

You couldn't secularise that if you tried ;)

IMO on this entire thread. Who gives a damn? There's christian broadcasts everywhere there's a christian population. There's muslim brodcasts where there's a muslim population.
I'm sure there's buddhist broadcasts in india. If you don't want the other broadcasts, you're gonna have to get rid of the part of the population that it's catering to.

That's right. In Malaysia there is Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu stuff on TV.

Abbey Marie

07-05-2013, 04:59 PM

At least there is no ambiguity. The call to prayer is just that.

The translation of the morning call to prayer is...

God is Great
God is Great
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Hurry to the prayer
Hurry to the prayer
Hurry to success
Hurry to success
Prayer is better than sleep
Prayer is better than sleep
God is Great
God is Great
There is no god except the One God

You couldn't secularise that if you tried ;)

That's right. In Malaysia there is Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu stuff on TV.

The better question is, are there Christian, Jewish and Buddhist prayers on TV in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.?

aboutime

07-05-2013, 05:43 PM

The better question is, are there Christian, Jewish and Buddhist prayers on TV in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.?

Abbey. During Operation's Desert Shield, and Desert Storm. I spent some time in both Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain where we heard those prayers broadcast those five times a day, every day for several months.

The irony became...for me. Hearing what jafar call's prayer's that coincidentally NEVER took place when Saddam was launching his SCUD missiles over Saudi, and toward Israel. And those who made those Broadcasted prayers for the Religion of Peace, did so while never slowing down to Kill Americans, or Israelis.

What made it worse for me. Personally. Was hearing those prayers over loudspeakers, only to be drowned out by the AIR RAID SIRENS that blew just before every SCUD attack.

So jafar. You'll have to excuse me if I find your methods of prayer...SICKENING.

jafar00

07-05-2013, 09:55 PM

The better question is, are there Christian, Jewish and Buddhist prayers on TV in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.?

I don't know about Iran. They have a sizeable Jewish community though so maybe.

Syria is in the middle of a civil war so you should probably as that question when they are done with it.

KSA is run by a corrupt family so I obviously say no they don't.

I mentioned Malaysia before which has policies that are a good example of Islamic tolerance for other faiths which is taught in the Qur'aan.

Noir

07-06-2013, 02:13 AM

. The irony became... those who made those Broadcasted prayers for the Religion of Peace, did so while never slowing down to Kill Americans, or Israelis.

Were any of your brothers in arms Christians? Did they pray before bedtime for love, peace, and forgiveness, while knowing they'd be going into combat the next day? If so, did this also strike you as ironic?

aboutime

07-06-2013, 02:47 PM

Were any of your brothers in arms Christians? Did they pray before bedtime for love, peace, and forgiveness, while knowing they'd be going into combat the next day? If so, did this also strike you as ironic?

Noir. Of course they were, and so am I. Difference is. We would be shot, attacked, or stoned for daring to BLAST our prayers every five hours, over loud speakers, asking everyone to say the LORDS PRAYER because being a Christian is an INSULT, and OFFENSIVE to people who claim to follow the Religion of Peace. Which probably includes you Noir.

How would you feel, right here, right now if Christians Went to their Churches and, instead of ringing bells. Took to loud speakers every five hours...with the speakers aimed at your BEDROOM window???

Would you find that forgiveness THEN? Ironic as it might be????

Drummond

07-07-2013, 02:10 PM

Question: Are Channel 4 and BBC the same thing?

Noir's answered this accurately - Channel 4 started broadcasting in the 1980's here, after decades of having the BBC and ITV dominate the British television industry. There is a 'BBC-4', but BBC channels are identifiable by the 'BBC' qualifier. And BBC-4 started broadcasting as a fully digital channel.

Channel 4 do have a flair for being controversial ... that's very true, and I'm sure this Ramadan stunt is exactly that .. for right now.

Trouble is that these things take on a life of their own. If nobody broadcasts this next year, we're bound to have some Muslim pressure group or other objecting, swiftly followed by some pseudo-Leftie outfit accusing broadcasters of bias, maybe racism, whatever.

Drummond

07-07-2013, 02:25 PM

So by no you mean, um, yes?

Certainly comparatively speaking - considering what I was being asked and what my answer was being compared against - my answer still remains 'no'.

Noir, you are well aware that if you switch a TV on in the UK, on a Sunday morning, you'll be very hard-pressed to find religious broadcasts airing then !! YES, you'll get Radio 4 through Freeview, Freesat, Sky, Virgin (I think) and any cable Companies outputting it, but the main TV broadcasters such as BBC, Channel 4 and ITV steer clear of them (though as I said, discussion programmes like 'The Big Questions' will cover theological debates).

And thank you for confirming the basic fact I made about Songs of Praise. Fair enough, if it's aired on BBC-1 next week, as you confirmed, it'll be an evening broadcast, AS IS ALWAYS TRUE FOR THAT PROGRAMME. This week, certainly, it was aired on BBC-2, not BBC-1.

Drummond

07-07-2013, 02:46 PM

Well, you do wear your prejudice on your sleeve for all to see. You talk exactly like them. Maybe I was wrong. I'm guessing you are EDL then.

Guess away .. and keep getting it wrong. I'm not EDL, either. Although ... I don't share the same view about the EDL that I do about the BNP.

Efforts made to 'demonise' me using this sort of tactic will get you nowhere, Jafar.

Islam is not restricted by race, this is true but we are all one Umma (community or nation), brothers and sisters to each other.

... EXCEPT when you AREN'T ...

How come you disown terrorists when it suits you ? And how come (as with Hamas) where Hamas is concerned, you DON'T ?

This 'Umma' of yours seems permanently variable, Jafar.

What do you want us to do? Celebrate Christmas by eating too much ham and getting smashed on Aunty Doris's eggnog after running up a huge credit bill on presents, then have a fry up including bacon and hair of the dog for boxing day breakfast?

I think I'd recommend all of those activities over blowing people up, Jafar !!

Besides, I'll have you know that Aunty Doris's eggnog is not to be sniffed at !! Better that Aunty Doris prepares her eggnogs than pipe bombs ...

And I enjoyed EXACTLY the fry-up you described last Boxing Day morning. I'd recommend the same to anyone. Who knows ... maybe a really good fry-up or 2 would've cured bin Laden of terrorism ? It's rather difficult to maintain an evil mindset after enjoying such splendid food, Jafar.

No thanks. Been there, done that. You can have it ;)

Why, thank you very much ...

Exactly how are we imposing our will on you? On the Sharia courts issue you have over there I think all it needs it is central oversight so those Pakistani taliban types don't try to bring their deviant wahhabi ways to your shores.

Simple answer: any stringent crackdown on the Sharia courts would bring a storm of protest from most, if not all, Muslim outfits out there. Enter Lefties on to the scene to swiftly jump on the bandwagon. Here's the point - once things such as Sharia Courts gain a foothold, then any attempts to stamp them out immediately become test-cases in public opinion of so-called 'racism'. Accommodations follow, deferences likewise.

And so it goes on, with the next cultural incursions / invasions waiting in the wings.

Noir

07-07-2013, 03:57 PM

Certainly comparatively speaking - considering what I was being asked and what my answer was being compared against - my answer still remains 'no'.

Noir, you are well aware that if you switch a TV on in the UK, on a Sunday morning, you'll be very hard-pressed to find religious broadcasts airing then !! YES, you'll get Radio 4 through Freeview, Freesat, Sky, Virgin (I think) and any cable Companies outputting it, but the main TV broadcasters such as BBC, Channel 4 and ITV steer clear of them (though as I said, discussion programmes like 'The Big Questions' will cover theological debates). And thank you for confirming the basic fact I made about Songs of Praise. Fair enough, if it's aired on BBC-1 next week, as you confirmed, it'll be an evening broadcast, AS IS ALWAYS TRUE FOR THAT PROGRAMME. This week, certainly, it was aired on BBC-2, not BBC-1.

Mkay, first things first. Songs of praise (SOP) was not on BBC1 today because of the Mens Wimbledon Final, and the inevitable cascade effects it has the the listings throughout that day. As great as SOP may be, sometimes it has to stand down for unique events.

Except for these 'unique events' SOP has had a consecutive listings on BBC1 since 2006 You can look at the listings by month and year here - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006ttc5/broadcasts/2013/07

Now, for the rather more hilarious bit.

there are no Sunday morning Christian church shows on UK TV?

the answer to your question is a firm 'NO'

Come on dude, most Sundays, most weeks the year, at prime time, on the (taxpayer funded) prime channel. The question is black and white, as is you're answer, if you're gonna try and dance away its gonna look a very silly dance indeed 0,o

jafar00

07-08-2013, 04:46 PM

Guess away .. and keep getting it wrong. I'm not EDL, either. Although ... I don't share the same view about the EDL that I do about the BNP.

Efforts made to 'demonise' me using this sort of tactic will get you nowhere, Jafar.

I can't help guessing when your bigotry is so clear. :poke:

... EXCEPT when you AREN'T ...

How come you disown terrorists when it suits you ? And how come (as with Hamas) where Hamas is concerned, you DON'T ?

This 'Umma' of yours seems permanently variable, Jafar.

Terrorism is condemned by Islam. Why not disown them?

I think I'd recommend all of those activities over blowing people up, Jafar !!

Besides, I'll have you know that Aunty Doris's eggnog is not to be sniffed at !! Better that Aunty Doris prepares her eggnogs than pipe bombs ...

And I enjoyed EXACTLY the fry-up you described last Boxing Day morning. I'd recommend the same to anyone. Who knows ... maybe a really good fry-up or 2 would've cured bin Laden of terrorism ? It's rather difficult to maintain an evil mindset after enjoying such splendid food, Jafar.

Since when do I blow people up? I'm sure a lot of your Christian soldiers go on to blow people up after celebrating Christmas in the warzones they created so don't point fingers.

As for fry ups, it is often my breakfast of choice. This morning I had a 3 egg omelette with sujuk (turkish spicy sausage), and spinach topped with cheese all cooked in plenty of butter, washed down with coffee made with heavy cream. Yummy!

Simple answer: any stringent crackdown on the Sharia courts would bring a storm of protest from most, if not all, Muslim outfits out there. Enter Lefties on to the scene to swiftly jump on the bandwagon. Here's the point - once things such as Sharia Courts gain a foothold, then any attempts to stamp them out immediately become test-cases in public opinion of so-called 'racism'. Accommodations follow, deferences likewise.

And so it goes on, with the next cultural incursions / invasions waiting in the wings.

Why not? France has a respected central Islamic authority overseeing most of the mosques and schools over there. That authority works closely with their government. Actually I was pleasantly surprised with the Imams of French mosques. Friday sermons were 100% traditional dealing with societal issues within the community. I listened to lectures ranging from stopping smoking, condemning gambling, to the blessings earned from treating your wife like royalty.

aboutime

07-08-2013, 04:54 PM

I can't help guessing when your bigotry is so clear. :poke:

... EXCEPT when you AREN'T ...

Terrorism is condemned by Islam. Why not disown them?

Since when do I blow people up? I'm sure a lot of your Christian soldiers go on to blow people up after celebrating Christmas in the warzones they created so don't point fingers.

As for fry ups, it is often my breakfast of choice. This morning I had a 3 egg omelette with sujuk (turkish spicy sausage), and spinach topped with cheese all cooked in plenty of butter, washed down with coffee made with heavy cream. Yummy!

Why not? France has a respected central Islamic authority overseeing most of the mosques and schools over there. That authority works closely with their government. Actually I was pleasantly surprised with the Imams of French mosques. Friday sermons were 100% traditional dealing with societal issues within the community. I listened to lectures ranging from stopping smoking, condemning gambling, to the blessings earned from treating your wife like royalty.

Jafar. We all know you lack the fortitude to back anything you say here up, with facts. Not when YOU are the Most Notable POSTER BOY for bigotry on this forum. And all of your attempts to distract attention from yourself. Fails miserably. Just like your Lies.

fj1200

07-08-2013, 05:02 PM

Jafar. We all know you lack the fortitude to back anything you say here up, with facts. Not when YOU are the Most Notable POSTER BOY for bigotry on this forum. And all of your attempts to distract attention from yourself. Fails miserably. Just like your Lies.

I can think of some here who meet the definition. AT least as well. Likely more SO.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

07-08-2013, 05:22 PM

Were any of your brothers in arms Christians? Did they pray before bedtime for love, peace, and forgiveness, while knowing they'd be going into combat the next day? If so, did this also strike you as ironic? Exactly what the hell do you find wrong with our soldiers praying before going into combat. How about you get ur azz out there being shot at and lets see how fast you start praying for protection from a higher authority. I do not mind saying if they were slinging pieces of lead at me and bombing all to hell the freaking ground around me I'd be saying prayers too. How is that ironic? And do not think for a moment that I don't know how you are going to play it Hoss. I do...Because I do.-Tyr

aboutime

07-08-2013, 05:26 PM

I can think of some here who meet the definition. AT least as well. Likely more SO.

No need for you to Brag fj. Playing games AT least makes you look dumber than we know you are.

fj1200

07-08-2013, 05:29 PM

No need for you to Brag fj. Playing games AT least makes you look dumber than we know you are.

It's not bragging when I know that there are bigger bigots here than Jafar. It's TRUTH.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

07-08-2013, 05:52 PM

It's not bragging when I know that there are bigger bigots here than Jafar. It's TRUTH. I sincerely hope that you do me the honor of being placed high upon that list !!!! For its quite apparent to me that you view a principled and honest man as a retarded bigot. How about openly listing here for all to see those you accuse? At least give your victims a chance to refute your allegations. -Tyr

fj1200

07-08-2013, 05:58 PM

I sincerely hope that you do me the honor of being placed high upon that list !!!! For its quite apparent to me that you view a principled and honest man as a retarded bigot. How about openly listing here for all to see those you accuse? At least give your victims a chance to refute your allegations. -Tyr

No, I view bigots as bigots and I didn't make any qualification as to their mental capacities. If you feel you meet the definition of bigot (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot?show=0&t=1373320638)...

a person who is obstinately (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obstinate) or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

aboutime

07-08-2013, 05:59 PM

Drummond

07-08-2013, 07:15 PM

Mkay, first things first. Songs of praise (SOP) was not on BBC1 today because of the Mens Wimbledon Final, and the inevitable cascade effects it has the the listings throughout that day. As great as SOP may be, sometimes it has to stand down for unique events.

On reflection, I'm tempted to agree with you. But would I be right to do so ?

If you were correct, then there would've had to be a presumption that the Mens Final would continue on until at least evening, as Songs of Praise is typically aired around 6PM. On Sunday, it was aired on BBC-2 at 4:50PM.

You talk about a 'cascade effect', though the programme planners exercise what leeway they prefer on issues like that. If a snooker championship overruns, say, you must surely know that the schedulers happily cancel programmes due to be transmitted if they deem the match to be more important. If they can do that for snooker (Benson & Hedges tournament, or others less important) they can CERTAINLY do it for Wimbledon.

Except for these 'unique events' SOP has had a consecutive listings on BBC1 since 2006 You can look at the listings by month and year here - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006ttc5/broadcasts/2013/07 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006ttc5/broadcasts/2013/07)

Fair enough, then. Nonetheless, Songs of Praise is an EVENING programme, as I said .. AND it's one the BBC will reschedule if they feel like it. Which, Noir, just has to be a far cry from the American broadcasting environment, where Christian religious broadcasting is altogether more .. well, religiously .. sacrosanct.

Come on dude, most Sundays, most weeks the year, at prime time, on the (taxpayer funded) prime channel. The question is black and white, as is you're answer, if you're gonna try and dance away its gonna look a very silly dance indeed 0,o

What counts as 'primetime', Noir ?

The point of the debate raised with me was that, in America, they get a lot of religious broadcasting IN THE MORNING.

You know as well as I do that your reference to 'primetime' wasn't morning-based (Radio 4 excepted, as I said previously ..).

Oh, and by the way, I owe you thanks. Your link illustrates a point I made before, I think, about the BBC's interest in examining the Muslim effect on Premier League football !! Anyone caring to look at your link will see that I was being accurate about that.

Drummond

07-08-2013, 07:42 PM

I can't help guessing when your bigotry is so clear. :poke:

Then I suggest you seek some professional help. If you CAN'T help guessing, when you have assurances that such guesses are worthless .. you definitely need help.

Terrorism is condemned by Islam. Why not disown them?

You are a Muslim. Yes ?

Fine.

Then YOU disown HAMAS !!

Show us that you can be consistent with the same 'standard' you claim applies to Islam as a whole ... except, of course, when it DOESN'T .....

Since when do I blow people up? I'm sure a lot of your Christian soldiers go on to blow people up after celebrating Christmas in the warzones they created so don't point fingers.

Our Christian soldiers, Jafar, are not terrorists. Rather, they're called upon all too often to FIGHT those terrorists !!! So, Jafar, if I ever feel like going in for finger-pointing, it will be reasonable for me to.

As for fry ups, it is often my breakfast of choice. This morning I had a 3 egg omelette with sujuk (turkish spicy sausage), and spinach topped with cheese all cooked in plenty of butter, washed down with coffee made with heavy cream. Yummy!

All well and good. Though I can think of one missing ingredient in that lot ...

BTW, did you hear about what our fun guys at GCHQ got up to, some little while ago ? They hacked into a terrorist Website, and substituted bomb-making instructions for a recipe on how to make cupcakes ..

I'm sure Hamas would've enjoyed being at the receiving-end of that one. Don't you agree, Jafar ?

Why not? France has a respected central Islamic authority overseeing most of the mosques and schools over there. That authority works closely with their government. Actually I was pleasantly surprised with the Imams of French mosques. Friday sermons were 100% traditional dealing with societal issues within the community. I listened to lectures ranging from stopping smoking, condemning gambling, to the blessings earned from treating your wife like royalty.

No honour killings ever happen in France, then ? No Sharia marriages which disadvantage the 'brides' ? Perhaps French Sharia is a far different thing from elsewhere ?

Besides, it's not all plain sailing in France. There, they've applied a ban on Hijab-wearing. Want to tell me that no Muslim complained ?

fj1200

07-09-2013, 09:56 AM

Tyr. Pay him no mind. Whenever rats get cornered, they always have to attack with whatever they think they have. In this case. Nothing to brag about.

You dislike it when a mirror is held to your own posts don't you?

Missileman

07-09-2013, 03:42 PM

The point of the debate raised with me was that, in America, they get a lot of religious broadcasting IN THE MORNING.

The point was whether or not there is Christian programming on British TV, the hour at which it's broadcast is irrelevant.

cadet

07-09-2013, 03:51 PM

The point was whether or not there is Christian programming on British TV, the hour at which it's broadcast is irrelevant.

http://www.christiansat.org.uk/channels.html

Drummond

07-09-2013, 04:59 PM

The point was whether or not there is Christian programming on British TV, the hour at which it's broadcast is irrelevant.

You've moved the goalposts ?

Well, no matter. In that case, the answer is that there is but a fraction of the quantity you experience in the US. But yes, if you wait long enough during the day, you do eventually encounter some.

Not much. But some, yes.

Drummond

07-09-2013, 05:42 PM

http://www.christiansat.org.uk/channels.html

Many thanks for the link. It illustrates my case perfectly.

Your list may look 'impressive' on the face of it ... but tell me, how many of those channels actually EXISTS to output such programming ? They are what might be called 'specialist' channels, that's to say, NOT mainstream ones .. and basically limited to Sky broadcasting, which is a satellite system, which not everyone is able to gain easy access to (I say 'basically' because it's possible that certain cable companies carry a proportion of them, but fed to them from Sky).

BBC. ITV. Channel 4. Channel 5. These are all the principal, non-Sky channels, and channels which preceded out digital 'revolution' (not counting BBC3 and BBC4). Do you see those in your lineup ?

Try finding channels which CHOOSE to output Christian broadcasts as part of a more inclusive itinerary. Then, the picture changes dramatically.

Missileman

07-09-2013, 06:29 PM

Your list may look 'impressive' on the face of it ... but tell me, how many of those channels actually EXISTS to output such programming ?

What has that got to do with your original complaint? Ironically, your objection to "any" Muslim programming sounds a wee bit like the radical atheists objections of all things Christian expressed here in the states.

Drummond

07-09-2013, 07:11 PM

What has that got to do with your original complaint? Ironically, your objection to "any" Muslim programming sounds a wee bit like the radical atheists objections of all things Christian expressed here in the states.

British law, and British culture .. indeed, most of what helps define what being British IS ... has a very long-standing grounding in Christianity. Our sense of right v wrong comes from Christianity.

And can you claim otherwise for America ? I think not.

Muslim culture, Muslim laws, and therefore Muslim programming, ALL of this is invasive, and does NOT reflect the true nature of our cultures. Are there ever instances of Muslim culture being ready and willing to defer to ours ? Any real, substantial examples of a willingness to integrate ? OR, does the Muslim faith stand apart, invading, setting up separate communities, separate 'legal' systems, and requiring a never-ending process and expectation of deference to them ?

The more people defer to them, the more is demanded. It never stops ! I guarantee you that Ramadan prayer broadcasts - now that the precedent has been set for them - WILL be expected in future years, and that if they don't happen, complaints will be made .. loudly.

Muslims aren't interested in understanding that if they live in foreign lands, the ways of their hosts, their culture, their beliefs, deserve respect. However, they absolutely require it all for themselves !!

And that's the point.

jafar00

07-10-2013, 05:09 AM

British law, and British culture .. indeed, most of what helps define what being British IS ... has a very long-standing grounding in Christianity. Our sense of right v wrong comes from Christianity.

And can you claim otherwise for America ? I think not.

Muslim culture, Muslim laws, and therefore Muslim programming, ALL of this is invasive, and does NOT reflect the true nature of our cultures. Are there ever instances of Muslim culture being ready and willing to defer to ours ? Any real, substantial examples of a willingness to integrate ? OR, does the Muslim faith stand apart, invading, setting up separate communities, separate 'legal' systems, and requiring a never-ending process and expectation of deference to them ?

The more people defer to them, the more is demanded. It never stops ! I guarantee you that Ramadan prayer broadcasts - now that the precedent has been set for them - WILL be expected in future years, and that if they don't happen, complaints will be made .. loudly.

Muslims aren't interested in understanding that if they live in foreign lands, the ways of their hosts, their culture, their beliefs, deserve respect. However, they absolutely require it all for themselves !!

And that's the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ZJu-f-XOE