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Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-28-2013, 10:41 AM
America's deadliest soldier or stolen valor? http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/p/csm_logo_115.jpg (http://www.csmonitor.com/) <cite class="byline vcard top-line">Dan Murphy <abbr>23 hours ago</abbr> </cite>



A new war memoir, "Carnivore" by Dillard Johnson, makes some rather extraordinary claims, according to media appearances and promotional material from publisher HarperCollins (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/HarperCollins+Publishers+Inc.). But it's looking likely that these claims are exaggerated, and in some eyes are veering towards stolen valor territory (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0222/Stolen-Valor-Act-at-Supreme-Court-Is-lying-about-being-a-hero-a-right).
The book is subtitled "A memoir by one of the Deadliest American Soldiers of All Time" and in it Sgt. 1st Class Johnson and his co-author write (http://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Memoir-Deadliest-American-Soldiers/dp/0062288415/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top#reader_0062288415) that he had 2,746 "confirmed" enemy kills during his time serving in Iraq (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Iraq), with 121 of those "confirmed sniper kills, the most ever publicly reported by a US Army soldier."
But his claims have sent the online veteran community into an uproar, with many vets calling them implausible and some men who served with him saying his statements are downright falsehoods. He served as a commander of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Bradley+Fighting+Vehicle) with the 3rd Squadron, 7th US (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) Cavalry, which took the lead in the charge to Baghdad (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Baghdad) after US forces went over the berm to invade Iraq in March 2003.
"I don’t want to take away from what [Johnson] did do, he did do great things: led a platoon, completed the missions," Brad Spaid tells the Monitor. He is a former staff sergeant who served with Johnson in Iraq and now has a civilian job with the Veteran's Administration and has read the book. "We lost some really good NCOs, guys that we really looked up to, and we feel that … on Facebook and blogs other vets are coming out and calling us out and calling us liars and idiots, and it takes away from what we really did…. We don’t want to become a laughing stock, we want to be remembered for what we did and move on."
RECOMMENDED: US military muscle (http://www.csmonitor.com/Photo-Galleries/In-Pictures/US-military-muscle)
That Sergeant Johnson (who received a Silver Star) and his fellows in the 7th Cavalry faced heavy fighting and performed admirably in Iraq is beyond question. The brief unit history on their website recounts that "combat operations for Operation Iraqi Freedom (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Operation+Iraqi+Freedom) began on March 20th when the squadron crossed into Iraq as the lead element of the [3rd Infantry Division]. The Squadron attacked to Baghdad fighting both the Republican Guard and the Saddam Fedayeen. It was the longest cavalry charge in the history of the world and it ended in the capture of Baghdad."
But while I haven't yet read the book, the headline claim is an extraordinary one, based on my five years covering the Iraq war between 2003 and 2008. An ounce of common sense also comes into play.
In late 2007, after Johnson had left Iraq, statistics provided to USA Today by the US-led coalition, estimated that (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-09-26-insurgents_N.htm?csp=DailyBriefing) 19,429 militants had been killed by all coalition forces, including Iraqi ones, since the start of the war in 2003. Johnson's claimed "confirmed kills" of 2,746 would amount to 14 percent of all those deaths, an astonishing number for a single soldier who did not serve in the hottest battles of the post-invasion war. http://news.yahoo.com/americas-deadliest-soldier-stolen-valor-212237661.html

gabosaurus
06-28-2013, 11:23 AM
It is the duty of editors and publishers to verify the contents of the books they edit and release. You can show your displeasure by not publicizing or purchasing books or other media that you disapprove of.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-28-2013, 01:38 PM
It is the duty of editors and publishers to verify the contents of the books they edit and release. You can show your displeasure by not publicizing or purchasing books or other media that you disapprove of. I haven't yet read the book but it does look like the truth has been stretched. If so then it is a dishonorable act and the author has stolen valor regardless of how much courage and fight he has shown in war. Truth never needs to be embellished as it stands ever so well on its own!--Tyr

aboutime
06-28-2013, 01:48 PM
Why would anyone question anything stated, or embellished in that book. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled, anyone is permitted to LIE in any way they want...under the protections of the 1st Amendment to the constitution.

The only limit to said lies is...'Yelling Fire in a theater'.

If the entire Democrat, and Republican parties, with the sitting President can get away with Endlessly lying to the American people with no repercussions. Why shouldn't this soldier be permitted to do the SAME????

Honor, Truth, and Personal Responsibility are no longer requirements in our society...if you can get away with it.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-28-2013, 05:56 PM
Why would anyone question anything stated, or embellished in that book. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled, anyone is permitted to LIE in any way they want...under the protections of the 1st Amendment to the constitution.

The only limit to said lies is...'Yelling Fire in a theater'.

If the entire Democrat, and Republican parties, with the sitting President can get away with Endlessly lying to the American people with no repercussions. Why shouldn't this soldier be permitted to do the SAME????

Honor, Truth, and Personal Responsibility are no longer requirements in our society...if you can get away with it. Your question is dead on the mark. However we that understand and have honor know the folly of a system that promotes what the SCOTUS ruled was fair. Yes, they did rule no penalties for lying like a damn rug! Any that embrace that 100% are not people I care to ever know myself. I am indeed like my father who always said, "I'd rather you walk up and spit in my face than lie to me. " We got the worse spanking for lying than anything else

aboutime
06-28-2013, 08:53 PM
Your question is dead on the mark. However we that understand and have honor know the folly of a system that promotes what the SCOTUS ruled was fair. Yes, they did rule no penalties for lying like a damn rug! Any that embrace that 100% are not people I care to ever know myself. I am indeed like my father who always said, "I'd rather you walk up and spit in my face than lie to me. " We got the worse spanking for lying than anything else


Tyr. That's why you and I make others so mad at us. We were taught the results of, and what to expect if WE practice lying.

The spanking wasn't the worst of it in the long run. The distrust, and second-guessing that preceded everything we said became the gauge by which our parents decided as to whether we could be believed, or not.
As for making others mad at us. Honor, and Honesty control what we do, and say. And that doesn't include lying. There is never any Truth that needs defending, or an excuse since the truth...never changes, but LIES ALWAYS DO...eventually.

If you never tell lies. You have no need to worry whether someone will catch you telling a lie.

It must really SUCK to be Obama, or any Politician, from either party.
I do wonder how they SLEEP at night? Pretending they have told the truth all day.

fj1200
06-28-2013, 09:53 PM
However we that understand and have honor know the folly of a system that promotes what the SCOTUS ruled was fair. Yes, they did rule no penalties for lying like a damn rug!

Maybe Congress and the POTUS will get it right this time.

Obama Signs Stolen Valor Act Into Law (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/06/obama-signs-stolen-valor-act-into-law/)

...
At the time, the law was written to say it was a crime simply to lie about military service and awards — a broad characterization the Supreme Court said violated a person’s First Amendment right to free speech (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/supreme-court-strikes-stolen-valor-lie-military-service/story?id=16669096#.UZtxKKLtWSo).
A new version of the bill, introduced by Heck in late 2012, narrowed the act to say the liar must be attempting to somehow materially profit from the lies, making the would-be crime more akin to fraud. A tweaked version of that bill was reintroduced in 2013.
President Obama took a hard stance against military phonies last year when he announced a new government website to track awards for legitimate heroes.
“It may no longer be a crime for con artists to pass themselves off as heroes, but one thing is certain – it is contemptible,” he said (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/fighting-stolen-valor-president-obama-announces-new-website-to-combat-those-falsely-claiming-military-medals/) in reference to the Supreme Court’s ruling in 2012. “…[N]o American hero should ever have their valor stolen.”

gabosaurus
06-28-2013, 10:42 PM
Why would anyone question anything stated, or embellished in that book. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled, anyone is permitted to LIE in any way they want...under the protections of the 1st Amendment to the constitution.

The only limit to said lies is...'Yelling Fire in a theater'.

If the entire Democrat, and Republican parties, with the sitting President can get away with Endlessly lying to the American people with no repercussions. Why shouldn't this soldier be permitted to do the SAME????

Honor, Truth, and Personal Responsibility are no longer requirements in our society...if you can get away with it.

Your mindless blather has nothing to do with the topic in hand. Sure you can lie all you want. But you also stand a chance on being called out for your lies.
Tyr was discussing a case of Stolen Valor. You are merely jerking your anti-Obama bone.

Voted4Reagan
06-29-2013, 04:59 AM
Your mindless blather has nothing to do with the topic in hand. Sure you can lie all you want. But you also stand a chance on being called out for your lies.
Tyr was discussing a case of Stolen Valor. You are merely jerking your anti-Obama bone.

Gabby,

Aboutime served more years in the Military then you have been alive, his analogy is valid to a point.

If Americas leaders can lie to their people about what they are doing, is there anything wrong with soldiers embellishing the numbers attributed to them in the field?

If we dont condemn our leaders for this, how can we condemn a regular Soldier?

Honesty has to flow across the board.... starting with the Commander in Chief and going down to the lowest cook peeling spuds in a kitchen at a military base in BumFart Alaska.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-29-2013, 10:55 AM
Gabby,

Aboutime served more years in the Military then you have been alive, his analogy is valid to a point.

If Americas leaders can lie to their people about what they are doing, is there anything wrong with soldiers embellishing the numbers attributed to them in the field?

If we dont condemn our leaders for this, how can we condemn a regular Soldier?

Honesty has to flow across the board.... starting with the Commander in Chief and going down to the lowest cook peeling spuds in a kitchen at a military base in BumFart Alaska. As far as telling war stories to family and friends its a small matter if small embellishments are made(sometimes because exact memory fails). However to deliberately embellish those tales in a book is a different matter altogether. You are correct that Obama lies and thinks nothing of it. He has been caught in several big whoppers about his past and he is the CIC.
By the way, the top two guys that killed the most enemy in modern war are the two guys that released those two A-bombs, one on Hiroshima and one on Nagasaki. So technically his deadliest soldier claim is wrong as well. -Tyr

aboutime
06-29-2013, 12:57 PM
Your mindless blather has nothing to do with the topic in hand. Sure you can lie all you want. But you also stand a chance on being called out for your lies.
Tyr was discussing a case of Stolen Valor. You are merely jerking your anti-Obama bone.


But I AM NOT LYING when I call you out for being the ASSHOLE, and JERK you prove to be here. You can't help that. And our constitution grants you the freedom to never fear...anyone taking that right of being an ASSHOLE away.