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Marcus Aurelius
06-22-2013, 11:37 AM
Notice the supporting sources are ALL Islamic.


Thios piece even shows comparisons of how female slaves were treated, between the Qur'aan and the Bible


http://answering-islam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm


MUHAMMAD AND THE FEMALE CAPTIVES
by Silas (http://answering-islam.org/Silas/contact.htm)

INTRODUCTION

Muhammad and his followers fought many battles. Some were offensive some were defensive. Following a victory the Muslims would take captives, or prisoners of war. Muhammad would usually distribute the captives, both male and female, as slaves to his soldiers. Islam provides some basic rights to its slaves but these rights are limited. Naturally, the rights or demands of the slave owner were greater than those of the slaves.

Female slaves were used for primarily for work. But they also provided another service to their male masters ....



The material I present is detailed but it needs to be provided to document support from all Islamic sources.

Here is the source material I use.

1) The Quran - N.J. Dawood's translation.
2) The Hadith collection of Bukhari. This collection of stories / traditions is the second most important set of books in Islam. It follows the Quran.
3) The Hadith collection of Muslim, (third most important set of writings).
4) The Hadith collection of Abu Dawud.
5) The biography of Muhammad, known as "Sirat Rasulallah", written by Ibn Ishaq, and translated by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad", (the most authentic biography of Muhammad’s life).
6) The biographical material found in Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes). This was translated by S. Moinul Haq.
7) The History of Tabari. This 39 volume set is almost finished being translated by a collection of both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars.



FROM THE QURAN - 23:5,6
"...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..."

Again, Muslim men were allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls.


FROM THE QURAN - 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. (Muhammad Pickthall's English translation of the Quran).


This verse is one verse out of a long passage dealing with who Muslim men can marry or have sexual relations with. The phrase "captives whom your right hand possess", means the slave girls Muslim men own.
Note also that this passage deals with more than just marriage. In Sahih Muslim volume 2, #3432, the background context for this Quranic verse is given. It relates to the events at Autus, and it permitted the Muslim men to have sex with their female slaves.
Here, Islam allows sex with married women, as long as you own them.

jimnyc
06-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Your source will undoubtedly be called a hate site. The quotes will be dismissed as wrong. Any of the writers, such as Abu Duwad, Ibn Ishaq and others will be dismissed as "not Muslims" or those that don't know what they're talking about.

But like we need proof of this? Hell, the abuse is rampant in daily life, let alone when they have someone prisoner. Look at Egypt for example - 80+% of all women claim to have been abused - and 50+% of the men admit to it!!!

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-22-2013, 11:52 AM
Its Islam== females are owned... As a child a female is owned by the family(primarily-the father) than when she is sold off into marriage she is then owned by the new husband. There is no free range , free grazing livestock in Islam territory. In Islam --everything must be owned (primarily by some male). The women are allowed sometimes to own the clothes on their back.. This is Sharia law.... Sharia law when the nation is ran by Islam. Its rigid, all encompassing and no grey areas exist. For anything even approaching being vague comes up the default position is the man(father/husband) wins, owns or gets to decide..--Tyr

WiccanLiberal
06-22-2013, 12:11 PM
I have my share of issues with Islam as it is the type of restrictive patriarchal faith I see as oppressive to the female spirit especially. However, historically speaking, any culture that has had slavery has had a culture condoning and institutionalizing sex with such slaves. The concept of slavery is that all of a person's rights are at the whim of one's owner, including the right to decide one's sexual partners. I am certainly not condoning slavery in any sense but it is disingenuous to point specifically at one culture over another as being worse or better in that regard. And if you are making a point that it is worse because it is in a scriptural work, the Hebrew bible has similar passages. The book of Numbers comes to mind.

jimnyc
06-22-2013, 01:07 PM
I have my share of issues with Islam as it is the type of restrictive patriarchal faith I see as oppressive to the female spirit especially. However, historically speaking, any culture that has had slavery has had a culture condoning and institutionalizing sex with such slaves. The concept of slavery is that all of a person's rights are at the whim of one's owner, including the right to decide one's sexual partners. I am certainly not condoning slavery in any sense but it is disingenuous to point specifically at one culture over another as being worse or better in that regard. And if you are making a point that it is worse because it is in a scriptural work, the Hebrew bible has similar passages. The book of Numbers comes to mind.

I think pretty much every religion has some sort of bad history. Killing, abusing, slavery, rapes and other evil things. Some are historical, and some are still happening today. I make no excuses for past evil within Christianity, Catholicism - nor any excuses for ANY religion that performed what we would consider evil in their past. My issue is that primarily only ONE religion is out there with so many "evil" problems happening within their community, their faith, their countries. I am more concerned with a single murder from current times than I would be of multiple murders from the past. While we can certainly learn from the past, our concerns for today should be on stopping violence and abuses.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-22-2013, 01:31 PM
I have my share of issues with Islam as it is the type of restrictive patriarchal faith I see as oppressive to the female spirit especially. However, historically speaking, any culture that has had slavery has had a culture condoning and institutionalizing sex with such slaves. The concept of slavery is that all of a person's rights are at the whim of one's owner, including the right to decide one's sexual partners. I am certainly not condoning slavery in any sense but it is disingenuous to point specifically at one culture over another as being worse or better in that regard. And if you are making a point that it is worse because it is in a scriptural work, the Hebrew bible has similar passages. The book of Numbers comes to mind. Sorry, but you are wrong on this. It is worse because Islam hasn't changed in over 1400 years while the other religions have. Islam exists today condoning those practices not as merely historic references but as everyday practice. That's reality Wiccan. Islam murders thousands around the world daily. Name another religion engaged in such murders etc. Islam still enslaves its women , name another religion currently doing so. Islam still engages in the convert or kill agenda. -Tyr

Marcus Aurelius
06-24-2013, 07:25 AM
I see jahil viewed, but didn't have the balls to comment.

Only so many times he can go to the 'that's from an Islamic hate site' or 'they weren't really Islamic' well, huh :laugh: